We had a fine house in UO on Great Lakes, full of all kinds of treasures. We'd get together and hop over to Felucca and do some Factions PvP. We'd run through some dungeons to make cash and hopefully get some rare stuff. I'd log onto Siege Perilous and join my murderous brethren in our war against humanity. We'd defend our home from their constant attacks, we'd gather resources to build our weapons of war. We'd fight monsters around our home to build our skills. We'd sit and chat, dueling and killing each other for fun, we'd train Red healers into our camp and box them in to resurrect us when we'd die.
I hope sandboxers understand that most of these activities do not appeal to the majority of players. It takes a very special mindset to read what heerobya describes and think it sounds like something you'd want to do for more than a week or two.
Some like both. So why can't we get a game with both?
Because the systems required for a good sandbox game are not compatible with the systems required for a good story-driven game.
The sort of player who likes a story-driven game does not want to think about skill templates. Even with the minimal customization in WoW, just think about how many people would rather ask everyone around them what the best talent build is, rather than experiment and exercise this tiny amount of freedom.
The story-driven player is uncomfortable with random exploration. They prefer guided exploration. They want to see new things, to be sure, but they do not care so much about "being the first" or finding things no one else has seen.
The story-driven player doesn't need to impact his world. He is content to take in the world as it is presented to him, more or less passively.
So to have a game with both styles of play would require that you create two entirely unrelated games and then smash them together. Pretty pointless, when you can make just the one game and (assuming you do it well) reap the rewards. Adding the sandbox bit to a story-driven game is just not cost-effective. Your resources are better spent adding content.
The difference is that in a skill based sandbox i can kill lvl 1 cows until i max all the skills i want if i feel like it. In a quest based lvl game after i kill a certain ammount of cows i will stop getting xp therefore i will need to move on if i really want my toon to progress. That is the difference beetween sandbox and linear quest based games imo, brought to the xtreme of course
I dont need a damn storyline, I will make my own in a game. If you want a storyline, play a single player game.
Exactly, if I am remembering correctly the "slogan" for SWG was something like "live the greatest story ever told....YOURS" and it WAS (very past tense) true. You could literally "live" a fantasy existence and create a fantasy life however you chose, you weren't told to go see Hobbit Joe, then Hobbit Joe tells you to go see Elf Ed and so on and so on. You went to see Ben Kenobi's home because you wanted to, you went to Krayt Valley because you wanted to, you went to Fort Tusken because you wanted to. And when you got there, hold the @#!& on cause there was sure to be something challenging waiting for you and likely to kill you if you weren't prepared.
Plus, do not forget what SWG did, that to my knowledge nobody else has done. You were able to unlock a force sensitive character slot.
Which, for me, was the only reason I bought the game in the first place. Not because I wanted to play as a jedi, but because there was this mystery behind everything you did. You never knew what would happen if you did whatever you did during your play time. Every second counted and was as exciting as the last one.
I remember hearing some rumors about certain places that would give you hints about the jedi.
The game revolved around this mystery. Some people made it there purpose in game to unlock jedi, others less persistant, tried and failed and some just wanted to be non-jedi. But they all had the same chances to unlock a jedi, back then of course when jedi was something to worship pre-publish 9 (ie: the jedi revamp).
The jedi of course were COMPLETELY over powered, just as it should of been, but only when you fully leveled it to Guardian 4/4/4/4 (Jedi Master slot was bugged...remember??)
As a padawan anyone could kill you, as a Knight, you could hold your own MAYBE in a 1v1, but as a guardian, you were a god to be worshiped.
One of the first light Jedi on Corbantis as I remember, he came to our city Kaitan (by the Krayt graveyard), he soloed 12-15 of us, while killing our large turrets AND finishing off and krayt dragon. He then proceded to camping our cloning center. I remember sending him a tell telling him to leave cause everyone in my guild DEF was reporting him and I dint want to see him banned.
Now you find me a freaking game where you have half the fun swg pre-cu was and Ill sign up.
Plus, do not forget what SWG did, that to my knowledge nobody else has done. You were able to unlock a force sensitive character slot. Which, for me, was the only reason I bought the game in the first place. Not because I wanted to play as a jedi, but because there was this mystery behind everything you did. You never knew what would happen if you did whatever you did during your play time. Every second counted and was as exciting as the last one. I remember hearing some rumors about certain places that would give you hints about the jedi. The game revolved around this mystery. Some people made it there purpose in game to unlock jedi, others less persistant, tried and failed and some just wanted to be non-jedi. But they all had the same chances to unlock a jedi, back then of course when jedi was something to worship pre-publish 9 (ie: the jedi revamp). The jedi of course were COMPLETELY over powered, just as it should of been, but only when you fully leveled it to Guardian 4/4/4/4 (Jedi Master slot was bugged...remember??) As a padawan anyone could kill you, as a Knight, you could hold your own MAYBE in a 1v1, but as a guardian, you were a god to be worshiped. One of the first light Jedi on Corbantis as I remember, he came to our city Kaitan (by the Krayt graveyard), he soloed 12-15 of us, while killing our large turrets AND finishing off and krayt dragon. He then proceded to camping our cloning center. I remember sending him a tell telling him to leave cause everyone in my guild DEF was reporting him and I dint want to see him banned. Now you find me a freaking game where you have half the fun swg pre-cu was and Ill sign up.
I still remember when I unlocked on my 22nd profession (weaponsmith, was annoying lol) it was so amazing. I still remember where my jedi trainer was in Bestine.
I don't think there will ever find a game like that again. Hopefully AoC will at least quell my desire for SWG type game if it wont replace it.
I guess someone could do a fantasy one to appease the rest of the sandboxers. It would be only minimally successful, especially compared to what the same company could do with a less open-ended game ... hm, maybe that's why no one wants to bother?
Why does nobody wants to bother ? hehe
An uptodate, so called 3rd or even 4th generation sandbox would be endgame for the mmo industry. It would have anything you want, because we now have the PCs to run it and the knowledge to code it. No other company could sell a freaking game anymore. Conspiracy ? Well, maybe. There is nothing in WoW, EQ, EQ2, AO, ATITD, TR, Hellgate, CoH, Hello Kitty, what-ever-game that an AAA+ sandbox couldnt offer.
Basically this is the game we all want and thats why all games suck to some degree. They are not complete The good thing is that companies slowly start to understand. People stop playing games at all because there is no real evolution in gaming. Playing since 85 and there really hasnt changed much. 3D rendering evolved very well, bandwitdh evolved very well, but the mechanics and features not. They even degraded. And companies try to sell me a slice of the cake over and over again. But i want the complete cake.
So, thats just another example how money blocks evolution
Comments
I hope sandboxers understand that most of these activities do not appeal to the majority of players. It takes a very special mindset to read what heerobya describes and think it sounds like something you'd want to do for more than a week or two.
Because the systems required for a good sandbox game are not compatible with the systems required for a good story-driven game.The sort of player who likes a story-driven game does not want to think about skill templates. Even with the minimal customization in WoW, just think about how many people would rather ask everyone around them what the best talent build is, rather than experiment and exercise this tiny amount of freedom.
The story-driven player is uncomfortable with random exploration. They prefer guided exploration. They want to see new things, to be sure, but they do not care so much about "being the first" or finding things no one else has seen.
The story-driven player doesn't need to impact his world. He is content to take in the world as it is presented to him, more or less passively.
So to have a game with both styles of play would require that you create two entirely unrelated games and then smash them together. Pretty pointless, when you can make just the one game and (assuming you do it well) reap the rewards. Adding the sandbox bit to a story-driven game is just not cost-effective. Your resources are better spent adding content.
I dont need a damn storyline, I will make my own in a game. If you want a storyline, play a single player game.
The difference is that in a skill based sandbox i can kill lvl 1 cows until i max all the skills i want if i feel like it. In a quest based lvl game after i kill a certain ammount of cows i will stop getting xp therefore i will need to move on if i really want my toon to progress. That is the difference beetween sandbox and linear quest based games imo, brought to the xtreme of course
Exactly, if I am remembering correctly the "slogan" for SWG was something like "live the greatest story ever told....YOURS" and it WAS (very past tense) true. You could literally "live" a fantasy existence and create a fantasy life however you chose, you weren't told to go see Hobbit Joe, then Hobbit Joe tells you to go see Elf Ed and so on and so on. You went to see Ben Kenobi's home because you wanted to, you went to Krayt Valley because you wanted to, you went to Fort Tusken because you wanted to. And when you got there, hold the @#!& on cause there was sure to be something challenging waiting for you and likely to kill you if you weren't prepared.
PRE CU/NGE SWG dual account holder vet...acct 1 12pt weaponsmith/4404 merchant...Acct 2 Master BH/pistoleer
Guild Wars, DDO, LOTRO, VCO, DAOC
Plus, do not forget what SWG did, that to my knowledge nobody else has done. You were able to unlock a force sensitive character slot.
Which, for me, was the only reason I bought the game in the first place. Not because I wanted to play as a jedi, but because there was this mystery behind everything you did. You never knew what would happen if you did whatever you did during your play time. Every second counted and was as exciting as the last one.
I remember hearing some rumors about certain places that would give you hints about the jedi.
The game revolved around this mystery. Some people made it there purpose in game to unlock jedi, others less persistant, tried and failed and some just wanted to be non-jedi. But they all had the same chances to unlock a jedi, back then of course when jedi was something to worship pre-publish 9 (ie: the jedi revamp).
The jedi of course were COMPLETELY over powered, just as it should of been, but only when you fully leveled it to Guardian 4/4/4/4 (Jedi Master slot was bugged...remember??)
As a padawan anyone could kill you, as a Knight, you could hold your own MAYBE in a 1v1, but as a guardian, you were a god to be worshiped.
One of the first light Jedi on Corbantis as I remember, he came to our city Kaitan (by the Krayt graveyard), he soloed 12-15 of us, while killing our large turrets AND finishing off and krayt dragon. He then proceded to camping our cloning center. I remember sending him a tell telling him to leave cause everyone in my guild DEF was reporting him and I dint want to see him banned.
Now you find me a freaking game where you have half the fun swg pre-cu was and Ill sign up.
I don't think there will ever find a game like that again. Hopefully AoC will at least quell my desire for SWG type game if it wont replace it.
An uptodate, so called 3rd or even 4th generation sandbox would be endgame for the mmo industry. It would have anything you want, because we now have the PCs to run it and the knowledge to code it. No other company could sell a freaking game anymore. Conspiracy ? Well, maybe. There is nothing in WoW, EQ, EQ2, AO, ATITD, TR, Hellgate, CoH, Hello Kitty, what-ever-game that an AAA+ sandbox couldnt offer.
Basically this is the game we all want and thats why all games suck to some degree. They are not complete
The good thing is that companies slowly start to understand. People stop playing games at all because there is no real evolution in gaming. Playing since 85 and there really hasnt changed much. 3D rendering evolved very well, bandwitdh evolved very well, but the mechanics and features not. They even degraded. And companies try to sell me a slice of the cake over and over again. But i want the complete cake.
So, thats just another example how money blocks evolution
Oh... by the way. Brazil banned EQ and CS.
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hBkj-Bi6dzGMMrid_jOE2PHFsw4g
Maybe a bit of evolution could help to save the industry ?