Default Rogue build bad?

Sevenwind

I do not know what is best stats and all that stuff when making a character. So I'm trusting Turbine has a decent default rogue build. I was doing alright in the harbor dungeons spotting traps, hidden doors etc. I finish WW and head to Marketplace and run a few solo dungeons there. I have YET to find a trap, hidden door at places I know there is something! I think my INT needs to be higher. Least some people in game told me that. I told them I just picked whatever was default build.

Rogues are dex/int based right? Any advice from fellow Rogues out there? Do I need to re-roll?

 

 

Hvymetal

Originally posted by Sevenwind


I do not know what is best stats and all that stuff when making a character. So I'm trusting Turbine has a decent default rogue build. I was doing alright in the harbor dungeons spotting traps, hidden doors etc. I finish WW and head to Marketplace and run a few solo dungeons there. I have YET to find a trap, hidden door at places I know there is something! I think my INT needs to be higher. Least some people in game told me that. I told them I just picked whatever was default build.
Rogues are dex/int based right? Any advice from fellow Rogues out there? Do I need to re-roll?
 
 

I am going to have to say yes if you are still low leveled. Personally I wouldn;t build a Rogue with less than a 14 INT, and if you are new to the class I would say 16. INT is easily as important as DEX if not moreso as it is easier to get your DEX raised through enhancement points. Check out the Rogue section of the main forums lots of good advice to be had there. (And yes I guess you could say I am a Rogue player, have 5 of them).

One last piece of advice, do not focus your Rogue solely on doing traps. A well built Rogue can pull aggro off a twinked out raging Barbarian even with subtle backstabber enhancements. Focusing solely on building a trap-monkey makes you much less desirable to groups, and quite honestly makes the rest of the class look bad to players that are not familiar with the class. Build a Rogue along the classes strength, versatility.

Sevenwind

Thanks for the advice, guess I'm going to re-roll. I'm not trying to be a trap monkey, just a useful rogue. I couldn't even find the secret door for the rest shrine before entering Redfang final room or the traps in that one dungeon with the lady sitting on the crate next to the  put in Marketplace. I felt useless.

I'll look on the forums. Thanks again.

 

 

Akousmata

Another highly overlooked stat for a rogue to use is Charisma.  I would put that at least at 12 maybe 14 if you have room for that stat.  One Min/Max build I used to use on my rogue builds (I don't play the game anymore) was Human or:

STR:  10

DEX:  16

CON:  10

INT:  16

WIS:  10

CHA:  14

The advantage of buffing CHA is that you get a much higher UMD and your bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate skills are all much better.  UMD is a rogue's bread and butter almost more so than DD because it allows you to fill roles in the party that otherwise would require a whole other toon.  I.E. a bard, or a cleric.  Like the previous poster said, go for versatility, use dex based fighting and max out your dex, and int, and then do the best you can with your charisma.

 

Hvymetal

Originally posted by Akousmata


Another highly overlooked stat for a rogue to use is Charisma.  I would put that at least at 12 maybe 14 if you have room for that stat.  One Min/Max build I used to use on my rogue builds (I don't play the game anymore) was Human or:
STR:  10
DEX:  16
CON:  10
INT:  16
WIS:  10
CHA:  14
The advantage of buffing CHA is that you get a much higher UMD and your bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate skills are all much better.  UMD is a rogue's bread and butter almost more so than DD because it allows you to fill roles in the party that otherwise would require a whole other toon.  I.E. a bard, or a cleric.  Like the previous poster said, go for versatility, use dex based fighting and max out your dex, and int, and then do the best you can with your charisma.
 

Agree about CHA, but I usually find 12 is enough for me to pop a raise scroll or suprise casters in the Portable Hole. Usually (this is just personal preferances) I try and start w/ at least a 12 STR and put extra points into CON. The problem Rogues suffer from is nearly the same as Paladins, neither class really has what can be termed a dump stat, all stats are important to both classes (except maybe int and to a certain extent dex for a Paladin) to greater or lesser extent.

Sevenwind

A good level 1 feat to pick then is Dodge or Two-weapon fighting? I saw those on the forums a lot. Which do you recommend?

Also when making do I need to put a lot of pts in bluff/diplomacy? I saw a lot of builds did not.

I hate making builds, absolutely clueless haha

Edit: Here is what I put in the build program. Thoughts?

Str 12

Dex 16

Con 12

Int 16

Wis 9

Cha 9

Those forums suggested putting some into wis to boost spot. 

 

 

Akousmata

At level 1, start with Dodge, save 2 weapon fighting for later when your Base Attack Bonus is a little higher, perhaps level 3 or 5.  You'll also have a little more money to work with to find some nicer weapons.

Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate are more of a personal touch in terms of playstyle, they can be useful when used properly.  They also become useful in certain parts of the game where having a high dip/bluff/int skill opens up options when speaking with NPC's. 

The thing I think you are still overlooking which you simply can't as a rogue is your CHA.  Unless you WANT to be a trap monkey which in many situations aren't worth their slot on a team that would otherwise get a more well built rogue. 

I would put at least 12 into CHA, if you don't try to get your CHA buffed up you're throwing away a very important part of a rogue's skill set:  Use Magic Device

You really want to have a high UMD if possible as this allows you to use things like scrolls and wands essentially making you like a secondary caster or secondary healer on top of being a secret door spotter, trap disabler, ranged attacker/sneak attacker, scout and all around utility toon.  This also allows you to be more self sufficient. 

The guys that recommend you leave CHA at 9 are more focused on attacking/AC and spotting/DD'ing than on being a utility player.  This is where most people consider them trap monkeys because, there's usually 2 melee's in a party already so why does the party need a 3rd melee who will be an SP hog for the cleric cause his CON/HP are low and he didn't bother taking any UMD to heal himself?  i.e. TrapMonkey, cause here's what he'll hear most of the time in a group:  "Ok, buff the fighters, draw aggro, casters go in as backup, the rogue should hang back at the entrance and we'll give you a buzz when we need you for a trap." 

At higher levels this discrepancy gets worse as a lot of parties simply buff their way through traps and don't even bother with having the rogue disable them unless they want the xp bonus cause it slows them down and they gotta wait for the spot check and the disabling.

Vincenz

Gotta agree, UMD is huge.  You want to see a party loving on a rogue, just wait till you cast Raise Dead on the cleric after a near party wipe and you go all stealth mode first

Akousmata

Originally posted by Hvymetal

Originally posted by Akousmata


Another highly overlooked stat for a rogue to use is Charisma.  I would put that at least at 12 maybe 14 if you have room for that stat.  One Min/Max build I used to use on my rogue builds (I don't play the game anymore) was Human or:
STR:  10
DEX:  16
CON:  10
INT:  16
WIS:  10
CHA:  14
The advantage of buffing CHA is that you get a much higher UMD and your bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate skills are all much better.  UMD is a rogue's bread and butter almost more so than DD because it allows you to fill roles in the party that otherwise would require a whole other toon.  I.E. a bard, or a cleric.  Like the previous poster said, go for versatility, use dex based fighting and max out your dex, and int, and then do the best you can with your charisma.
 

Agree about CHA, but I usually find 12 is enough for me to pop a raise scroll or suprise casters in the Portable Hole. Usually (this is just personal preferances) I try and start w/ at least a 12 STR and put extra points into CON. The problem Rogues suffer from is nearly the same as Paladins, neither class really has what can be termed a dump stat, all stats are important to both classes (except maybe int and to a certain extent dex for a Paladin) to greater or lesser extent.

I tend to disagree a little here.  I played several rogues back in the day before I became a barbarian addict.  If you work your build properly, CON can be dumped, it sux at early levels, but once your AC and reflex saves are high enough, CON is not that useful. 

Sevenwind

Thanks a million for the help. Here is what I got this time..

Str 10

Dex 16

Con 10

Int 16

Wis 8

Cha 12

I got 2pts left over, should I put them in wisdom or into something else since you recommended 12 cha? It says if I add 2 to Wis to make it 10 I will have a +1 will save.

And can anyone tell me if I should put pts in haggle since you said diplomacy, bluff, and intimidate are more of a personal touch thing. I would think haggle be a nice thing to put pts into because if I'm buying a lot of wands to use with UMD I would want a good haggle right?

Sorry this is my first made build I'm trying to get right, was playing DDO with just default builds. Trying to get something useful.

 

 

Thillian

I would put the remaining two either to strength or constitution. (preferably CON)

Akousmata

Well,

I would go either CON or WIS to round out your saves.

CON is useful to increase your HP per level and your fort. saves as well as saves against poison. 

WIS is nice for protection on will saves and spot.

Whichever one you choose, just keep in mind that there are SOOOO many items in the game once you get past level 10 or so that will boost various abilities including skills, stats, and saves as well as enhancements that will play into a build that there is very little difference between having a 10 WIS and a 12 CON as a rogue.

Haggle is kind of a funky thing because there's people that swear by it and others that say it's worthless.  I was in a guild with a rogue who had a really high haggle, I think it was maxed out for his level and up to like 38 or something ridiculous like that.  Everyone in the guild had her buying and selling things for them at the various weapon and armor brokers cause it really did make a huge difference depending on the items, sometimes as much as a 20K swing in platinum. 

Then again, once you get to lvl 12-14, 20K platinum is nothing.

If you're a penny pincher go with haggle, otherwise, buff other skills you might find useful such as hide, sneak, or jump.

Sevenwind

Thanks I just put the last 2 pts in wis. So far so good. And I put pts into haggle. Figured if I was suppose to be a back up healer maybe I  would have to buy a lot of wands, and they only get more expensive.

I started on a different server too just to see what I could do with absolutely nothing haha.

Thanks for the help all. Did I make you want to re-sub Akousmata? haha

 

 

Hvymetal

Originally posted by Akousmata

Originally posted by Hvymetal

Originally posted by Akousmata


Another highly overlooked stat for a rogue to use is Charisma.  I would put that at least at 12 maybe 14 if you have room for that stat.  One Min/Max build I used to use on my rogue builds (I don't play the game anymore) was Human or:
STR:  10
DEX:  16
CON:  10
INT:  16
WIS:  10
CHA:  14
The advantage of buffing CHA is that you get a much higher UMD and your bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate skills are all much better.  UMD is a rogue's bread and butter almost more so than DD because it allows you to fill roles in the party that otherwise would require a whole other toon.  I.E. a bard, or a cleric.  Like the previous poster said, go for versatility, use dex based fighting and max out your dex, and int, and then do the best you can with your charisma.
 

Agree about CHA, but I usually find 12 is enough for me to pop a raise scroll or suprise casters in the Portable Hole. Usually (this is just personal preferances) I try and start w/ at least a 12 STR and put extra points into CON. The problem Rogues suffer from is nearly the same as Paladins, neither class really has what can be termed a dump stat, all stats are important to both classes (except maybe int and to a certain extent dex for a Paladin) to greater or lesser extent.

I tend to disagree a little here.  I played several rogues back in the day before I became a barbarian addict.  If you work your build properly, CON can be dumped, it sux at early levels, but once your AC and reflex saves are high enough, CON is not that useful. 

While I tend to agree for an experienced Rogue player, I like to suggest a little bit higher CON to allow a little bit of a hp buffer for a newer player. Learning aggro management can be brutal on a newer Rogue player.

And yea I really wouldn't go lower than a 12 CHA unless I had a specific build in mind, UMD is very usefull.