So when certain people mention WOW's PvP is horible, you have to question why loads of people are playing such a crappy game. Maybe, just maybe, its because WOW PvP is actually quite fun and the people who hate it are quite bitter and the idea of fun differs greatly from "normal people". Who plays a game that isn't fun anyway?
WoW's server population drasticly increases after 3pm... when school lets out.
Not to mention Diesel a HUGE portion of that 10 million number that is so easily tossed around is Europeans and Asians. 5 Million + of it actually. So out of the 5 million US players and from playing wow I know that 4.2 million of those are little kids.... It doesn't give me much incentive to play. OMG DAIRY QUEEN BBQ FTW. NOOB.
Kinda gets on your nerves after a while. I haven't logged into wow in about 6 months, and I feel all the better for it now. Once you break free from a shitty game and go back to good ones you really see how wow blinds most people from the truth. Good part is that the wow mez is starting to fade. It is evident in most games out right now, many games pops are starting to slowly climb back up.
DAoC on the rise again, EQ2 on the rise again, GW never dropped but still getting more, LOTRO on the rise, hell even D&DO back on the increase.
I know these games are on the rise because I play them, every day we get a few more players back from the wow strangle hold. The days of wow will soon fade, never completely because of it's insane popularity but for the simple fact that not everyone are lemmings, and even some lemmings can see the light and decide to think for themselves.
Actually last time they pointed out specific numbers NA users are only 2.5 to 3 Million the rest is Asians and a smattering of Europeans(still in the millions, still alot for Europe). The Asian users have always out number NA and Euro users combined.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
So when certain people mention WOW's PvP is horible, you have to question why loads of people are playing such a crappy game. Maybe, just maybe, its because WOW PvP is actually quite fun and the people who hate it are quite bitter and the idea of fun differs greatly from "normal people". Who plays a game that isn't fun anyway?
WoW's server population drasticly increases after 3pm... when school lets out.
After 3pm is also when a lot of adults get out of work.
Sorry, never said it was god send. Never said it was the best. Never mentioned GWs. I only commented that it doesn't take any less skill than any other MMO, which people just LOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE to spout day in day out. TO those people, its obvious they don't have much of a clue. How much clue can they have complaining about it on MMORPG.com. You'd figure someone who thinks the game sucks wouldn't post about it on a message board dedictaed. They just wouldn't care. But they DO care. They care because they know they're wrong. People need to understand the difference between why you PvP and the complexity of the fight. WOWs PvP purpose is simple because theres no higher reason to fight. This was done for a very good reason Blizzard is aware of and many people aren't. If it needs to be explained, think really hard and it'll come to you. But To say the tactics & options are any less simple than any other MMO reeks of pure ignorance. GW by the way certainly takes plenty of skill to play well. However, you can also play it like a moron and easily beat other morons, doing just fine, just like WOW or any other MMO for that matter. Bashing WOWs PvP mechanics means you're an angry bitter individual and nothing more. Bash the reasons why you fight. Bash the death penalty. Bash the instances if you want. But bashing how well the game controls, how many options you have and how fast you have to use those options in order to do well means you really don't have any idea what you're talking about. UO had very few options in a fight and horrible controls. DAOC removed moevement control almost completely and RAs and CC have never been balanced from day 1. SB had horrible control and nasty tech problems. In Eve, PvP is designed to be avoided. People go out of their way to avoid a fight and then when you're in a fight, you're mostly looking at blips on a screen, extrememly automated combat and very little reaction time needed, about as exciting as watching paint dry. Sure the stakes are high, but the fights are dead boring and painfully slow. So when certain people mention WOW's PvP is horible, you have to question why loads of people are playing such a crappy game. Maybe, just maybe, its because WOW PvP is actually quite fun and the people who hate it are quite bitter and the idea of fun differs greatly from "normal people". Who plays a game that isn't fun anyway?
I bash WoW's pvp cause its meaningless and way too casual friendly. You need 2 braincells to do ok in it, and 5 to do great. The only reason to pvp in WoW is to grind pvp gear. It doesnt do shit to the rest of the server if you win or lose, and most people couldnt care less is you run around in season3 gear or whatever number they are at now. All it take to go to the top in WoW's arena is time. Its a mindless grind, like the rest of the game. But people seem to want this kinda gameplay so let em have it. I sincerly hope WAR, AOC or both take pvp to the next level, disregarding most of the crap WoW made an industry standard, both pvp- and pve-wise.
I like WoW, keeps the twelve year olds and pervs out of EQ2. Just listen to Barens chat..
EQ2 hardly having a serviceable population these days does not excuse it from all the crap I heard in Antonica and Commonlands chat when people still played the game.
Have you visited eq2flames.com recently? Yeah, the EQ2 community is sooo much more mature than the WoW community.
By the way, WoW isn't one community, it's many hundreds.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Well Recant. If you really think WoW pvp is complex and hard, feel free to live in your dreamworld. Its one of the most basic pvp systems in the mmo market today. And yeah, I've been there, done that with both bg's and the arena. Its a grind, mindnumbing and ridiculously easy, nothing more. Perfect for casual players, but hardcore pvp'ers need more.
You're right on one thing. The goal to PvP in WOW isn't all that complex. Its either for points in the BGs and Arenas, an ego stroke or simple survival on PvP servers. However, the battle mechanics, split second options & strategies are as complex as any MMO to date. You don't need to lose your shirt for PvP to matter in a MMO. It just has to be fun. According to the numbers more people find WOW PvP fun than most MMOs combined.
Hardcore PvPers haven't mattered....EVER=) If they mattered, Origin would'nt have created Trammel. ACDT would've been the most populated server until 8 or 9 yrs later. DOAC's PvP servers wouldn't have been empty a few months after they opened. ShadowBane wouldn't be a total dud. The Lineage series wouldn't be a flop in every region outside Asia. Eve would have more success outside Europe. In the US its hardly a blip.
Hardcore PvPers? You think any developer cares at all about them, esspecially Blizzard. On that note, name another MMO where their PvP matches are considered an e-sport? WOW's arenas have prize money valued at $120k. Pretty hardcore, dontcha think? I'm not involved in it, but people are willing to pay to get into tournaments. Besides, hardcore PvPers don't play MMOs. They play FPSs, get sposors and win money. They don't sit on forums and bitch on how WOW sucks=)
Guess what? WOW PvP isn't all about BGs and arenas and anyone who needs hardcore penalties to have fun isn't a PvPer. They're just a masochist. You want hardcore PvP, drop your gear every time you lose or punch yourself in the face. That way PvP can have more meaning for you without ruining it for the rest of us.
Guild Wars is not only considered an E-Sport but actually IS an e-sport. With yearly ladders that play for prizes and money.
Do not even try come back with the guild wars doesn't take skill argument either, because it will not hold water.
Guild Wars complexity and teamwork aspect of the 8 v 8 ladders takes a huge dump on WoW's pvp in every aspect. The teams of GW are built and comprised just like a CPL Counterstrike team over many countries.
Yes GW is free and houses MANY kiddies because of it. Truth of the matter still remains, it poops on wow's pvp. It also has everything you said other MMO's do not have, twitch fast paced combat, where your builds skills and anything else "complex" comes into play.
Still shaking my head how you think fear bombs, counter spell, polymorph, and the fabled mortal strike spam is "complex". WoW's PvP is garbage. It's PvE is ok, for what it is. Just quit trying to pass off WoW's pvp as the godsend to mankind.... because it blows donkey balls.
If you're so hardcore and WoW PvP is so easy to learn, why don't you win some of that $120,000 huh? I mean all you have to do is win a few arena games - you don't even need to have a character, you create a level 70 with the gear you need yourself. Surely such an non-complex game will be easy money for you?
I have a feeling those who claim that WoW's PvP is simple and easy haven't done very well in it.
See you in that easy PvP tournament for easy money, then?
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Sorry, never said it was god send. Never said it was the best. Never mentioned GWs. I only commented that it doesn't take any less skill than any other MMO, which people just LOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE to spout day in day out. TO those people, its obvious they don't have much of a clue. How much clue can they have complaining about it on MMORPG.com. You'd figure someone who thinks the game sucks wouldn't post about it on a message board dedictaed. They just wouldn't care. But they DO care. They care because they know they're wrong. People need to understand the difference between why you PvP and the complexity of the fight. WOWs PvP purpose is simple because theres no higher reason to fight. This was done for a very good reason Blizzard is aware of and many people aren't. If it needs to be explained, think really hard and it'll come to you. But To say the tactics & options are any less simple than any other MMO reeks of pure ignorance. GW by the way certainly takes plenty of skill to play well. However, you can also play it like a moron and easily beat other morons, doing just fine, just like WOW or any other MMO for that matter. Bashing WOWs PvP mechanics means you're an angry bitter individual and nothing more. Bash the reasons why you fight. Bash the death penalty. Bash the instances if you want. But bashing how well the game controls, how many options you have and how fast you have to use those options in order to do well means you really don't have any idea what you're talking about. UO had very few options in a fight and horrible controls. DAOC removed moevement control almost completely and RAs and CC have never been balanced from day 1. SB had horrible control and nasty tech problems. In Eve, PvP is designed to be avoided. People go out of their way to avoid a fight and then when you're in a fight, you're mostly looking at blips on a screen, extrememly automated combat and very little reaction time needed, about as exciting as watching paint dry. Sure the stakes are high, but the fights are dead boring and painfully slow. So when certain people mention WOW's PvP is horible, you have to question why loads of people are playing such a crappy game. Maybe, just maybe, its because WOW PvP is actually quite fun and the people who hate it are quite bitter and the idea of fun differs greatly from "normal people". Who plays a game that isn't fun anyway?
I bash WoW's pvp cause its meaningless and way too casual friendly. You need 2 braincells to do ok in it, and 5 to do great. The only reason to pvp in WoW is to grind pvp gear. It doesnt do shit to the rest of the server if you win or lose, and most people couldnt care less is you run around in season3 gear or whatever number they are at now. All it take to go to the top in WoW's arena is time. Its a mindless grind, like the rest of the game. But people seem to want this kinda gameplay so let em have it. I sincerly hope WAR, AOC or both take pvp to the next level, disregarding most of the crap WoW made an industry standard, both pvp- and pve-wise.
Only 5 braincells to do great in PvP? Your arena ranking must be very high. Oh and there's a $120,000 tournament happening soon - easy money for someone with so many braincells.... right...?
You haven't got past level 20, I'm guessing.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
70 ally druid/70 horde priest..Done the maintank/dps/healbot job in the game. It is just too damn boring for me. Besides, you get a prerolled 70 toon with full pvp gear in those tournaments. Way to go Blizzard to make your game even more easy, as if it wasnt easy enough to begin with. But I'm done discussing this with delusional kids. I find WoW an extremely easy and boring game, but its popularity speaks volumes. Not for the quality of the game, but the general taste of its players. No wonder Britney Spears and all those shitty mainstream bands and music are that popular.
70 ally druid/70 horde priest..Done the maintank/dps/healbot job in the game. It is just too damn boring for me. Besides, you get a prerolled 70 toon with full pvp gear in those tournaments. Way to go Blizzard to make your game even more easy, as if it wasnt easy enough to begin with. But I'm done discussing this with delusional kids. I find WoW an extremely easy and boring game, but its popularity speaks volumes. Not for the quality of the game, but the general taste of its players. No wonder Britney Spears and all those shitty mainstream bands and music are that popular.
If it's so easy why don't you enter the tournament and win the money? Easy game, easy money?
The answer is obvious, you can't, because you're totally wrong. Yet you called me 'delusional' and I think you're getting the meaning of the word muddled.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
So why would someone level 2 characters to 70 if the game took only a few brain cells? You spent so much time leveling up characters in a boring and easy game? Sounds like you have extremely lousy taste in games and an incredible amount of time to waste. How sad for you=)
I played Eve for an hour and knew it sucked for me. If I continued to play for a year and called it crap, what would that make me?
70 ally druid/70 horde priest..Done the maintank/dps/healbot job in the game. It is just too damn boring for me. Besides, you get a prerolled 70 toon with full pvp gear in those tournaments. Way to go Blizzard to make your game even more easy, as if it wasnt easy enough to begin with. But I'm done discussing this with delusional kids. I find WoW an extremely easy and boring game, but its popularity speaks volumes. Not for the quality of the game, but the general taste of its players. No wonder Britney Spears and all those shitty mainstream bands and music are that popular.
If it's so easy why don't you enter the tournament and win the money? Easy game, easy money?
The answer is obvious, you can't, because you're totally wrong. Yet you called me 'delusional' and I think you're getting the meaning of the word muddled.
You just dont get it do you? I've stated numerous times that I find WoW easy, boring and predictable. Why should I be interested in some epeen contest in WoW? Tried WoW's version of pvp and I found it extremely boring, grindy and easy. I have no interest, none what so ever to repeat it.
And to Josher, I leveled those two toons up in a matter of around 1.5-2 months, spent some 5-6 months experiencing the endgame, both pve raids and pvp. It was fun leveling in the game, but the endgame is a completely different experience. To form an opinion of something you need to experience it, yes??? I had fun for a little while till the grind set in. That was when I quit the game. So you see, I played WoW, and had my fun in it, but in the end it couldnt hold my interest cause I found it boring, predictable and easy, too easy.
Second, to be perfecly honest, if you only played Eve for 1 hour you dont know jack about the game. You hardly got out of the first system in that time, maybe you managed to complete one mission. Hardly solid grounds to form an opinion of the game, no??
Funny though, the more I discuss this game in various forums the more I dislike it, and I dont even play it anymore. The people I discuss it with reeks of fanboism. I can understand why the haters hate this game so much. What brings out the hate is the players, not the game it seems.
Another thing I just cant wrap my head around, we are all gamers, but still some gamers look down on other gamers cause they got more free time to play games than they do. What is really stupid in my view is saying that another person got no life cause they play the game so much, while still the person saying it, even says it in the game. There are a multitude of reasons why some players got more, or less time than another player to play those videogames, but the narrow mindeness of some people just dont see it that way. So stuff those petty remarks and keep em to yourself, cause they fall of deaf ears. You only make yourself sound like an idiot.
Hahaha. Come on. So you're passing on all that money, for just winning such an "easy" game, because it bores you that much.
I'd love to know what you do for a living.
You of course will eventually realize your entire argument about PvP being so non-complex and easy for you crumbles to nothing when you consider why you can't possibly, even begin to hope, in a million years win that tournament, based on your lack of understanding of the way PvP works.
Edit: I never said I'd only played EVE for one hour. Are you just making things up now, or are you getting confused again? If you can't debate without getting yourself confused or making things up, just don't bother. To paraphrase yourself, "You make yourself look like an idiot".
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Sigh...The Eve thing wasnt for you, it was for Josher. Read the entire post next time.
Edit:I work for a tele company called Telenor here in Norway as a technician. I'm not rich, but I got no financial problems if that is what you are asking.
Alright, so answer my question. If that game is so easy, than that tournament money must be easy money. A telecoms technician would not be able to throw away 10s of thousands of dollars by playing a game he finds 'boring'?
But, you can't, because it would be too difficult for you to win. So it's not easy, is it? It feels like the questions I'm asking are rhetorical. Probably because they are.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Actually I beta tested Eve, took a break a few weeks before release, then started over again and realized after an hour the game was still boring and didn't improve.
If you're going to bash the game on the WoW forums, you should expect people to disagree with you - not because we're fanboys, but because you're bashing the game, not actually criticising it. To criticize something you must be objective.
WoW is not perfect, it's that the majority of criticisms you make aren't very well thought out. Saying a game like WoW is 'easy' says nothing unless why you state it's easy, youhave to compare the challenge to other games.
You have to say why camping a gate in EVE with other corp members and stealing ore from miners is more challenging than 5v5's in WoW's arena. You have to explain why fleet battles are so much more skillful than battlegrounds in WoW. Maybe you're right, but you're not doing a very good job at articulating why.
This is why I find absurd the whole 'WoW is easy' statement. It's 'easy' to find challenge in WoW. That doesn't make WoW easy, it makes it accessible.
It's hard to find a good skillful fight in EVE, because quite often the battle is often won before it starts, simply down to fleet logistics or numbers. That's inaccessibility, not difficulty.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Alright, so answer my question. If that game is so easy, than that tournament money must be easy money. A telecoms technician would not be able to throw away 10s of thousands of dollars by playing a game he finds 'boring'? But, you can't, because it would be too difficult for you to win. So it's not easy, is it? It feels like the questions I'm asking are rhetorical. Probably because they are.
If I dont invest, I dont throw money away. Stands to reason, yes? And yes, it will be too difficult for me. I would have trouble keeping awake while playing. Its a bore for me.
Originally posted by Josher
Actually I beta tested Eve, took a break a few weeks before release, then started over again and realized after an hour the game was still boring and didn't improve.
Ah That changed everything. But still, its developed far beyond what Eve was at the start nowadays. My little bro love that game to bits though. Me, I dont find it that interesting. It is too boring for me. Mine, fight, make stuff, mine, fight, make stuff and so on. Plus the alt thing really put me off Eve, that you cant train an alt the same time you train your main.
Alright, so answer my question. If that game is so easy, than that tournament money must be easy money. A telecoms technician would not be able to throw away 10s of thousands of dollars by playing a game he finds 'boring'? But, you can't, because it would be too difficult for you to win. So it's not easy, is it? It feels like the questions I'm asking are rhetorical. Probably because they are.
If I dont invest, I dont throw money away. Stands to reason, yes? And yes, it will be too difficult for me. I would have trouble keeping awake while playing. Its a bore for me.
So what you're saying is, you would be able to win this tournament if the game did not bore you? This would mean that you are the best WoW player in the world, therefore making the game difficult for other players to beat you, therefore the game is difficult for everyone except for yourself.
Or, you would not be able to win, because the challenge was too difficult. Therefore, not easy.
Either way, I rest my case. It's pretty rock solid logic.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Alright, so answer my question. If that game is so easy, than that tournament money must be easy money. A telecoms technician would not be able to throw away 10s of thousands of dollars by playing a game he finds 'boring'? But, you can't, because it would be too difficult for you to win. So it's not easy, is it? It feels like the questions I'm asking are rhetorical. Probably because they are.
If I dont invest, I dont throw money away. Stands to reason, yes? And yes, it will be too difficult for me. I would have trouble keeping awake while playing. Its a bore for me.
So what you're saying is, you would be able to win this tournament if the game did not bore you? This would mean that you are the best WoW player in the world, therefore making the game difficult for other players to beat you, therefore the game is difficult for everyone except for yourself.
Or, you would not be able to win, because the challenge was too difficult. Therefore, not easy.
Either way, I rest my case. It's pretty rock solid logic.
No, I am not saying that. And no, the game aint difficult. Look at its own forums, both EU and US. People complain that stuff is too easy nowadays, if you can manage to navigate all the whiners, haters, lovers, trolls and jackasses you find there. If I would have won or not is not the issue, allthough I seriously doubt I would have. Too many wildcards at play, and I dont know the game good enough to counter everything thrown my direction. I still hold to that WoW's pvp is easy as hell, all you need is time to be successful in it. In a tournament setting though, stuff get mixed around as you dont have unlimited amounts of time to be successful in it. Anyway, the competition is not the issue here, the different looks we have of WoW's pvp/pve is.
As a consumer/ gamer and former wow subscriber plus avid MMO player, i would just like to state that wow sucks. WoW is a waterd down piece of junk that for some reason people find fun hey thats cool you play that one i'll play this one. But because WoW is the halo of MMO's it is overrated just like halo...people still play halo..but i dont.
These posts never fail to crack me up. Its as if some people simply believe in their ability to say, and then have done. I command thee, stop the bashing of WoW!
Hi-larious.
Man is born, man lives, man dies, and its all vanity.
As a tired argument and has been posted probably before I tried this game once for 3 months and just couldn't get into it for reasons:
1: Too many grinds
2: PVP Aspect of the game was horrible
3. Its level based (not skill based)
4. Graphics were too kiddie for me
5. Too many kiddies for me to deal with
6. Crafting Aspect Of Game was horrible its a Loot Based Be All End-Game Content
7. Raid Instances (another grind) and 8.....
8. Being told that this game is so great when its not just because a product is sucessful doesnt mean
everyone will embrace it like the masses do. Almost like saying Brtiney Spears had so many albums that
were hits and had lots of listeners but her music was garbage to most. And yes thats what Im saying this
game is pure rubbish.
Its sad to see the gaming industry try to emulate WOW and more and more I want to play any new MMOs less because of it. For example SWG (Star Wars Galaxies) was a game that was unique from the rest of the flock. Then WOW came in picture and $OE decides hey we ant those subscribers numbers and they killed the game and over 200k in customers loved all for this new target audience the kiddies and causal player wanting to make it "simple special" lumping all the professions into 9 cookie cutter with no real diversity. Taking everything out that was special about it and making it more user friendly was a slap in the face. Now look at SWG now its WOW-related target audience isnt there and now they are cribbing content from WOW now with raid like WOWeroics ( Heroic Instances) and your grindfest Collections pretty much nailed the last nail in the coffin. Thanks WOW for destroying my game !!!!!!
And why am I blaming WOW for my games demise cause the Pre-CU was too HARDDDDDD!!!! for you to learn and pick up and too complex for you to understand. Yes the learning curve of that version of SWG was difficult and took some time to figure out but after you did figure it out it was well worth it.. But you wanted simple and shiny trinkets, and foozle instances, and grinds and Loot BE all thats good !!! Not Crafters...!!!!
No WOW is killing the game industry with its game concepts the developers see $$$ and not think of anything more creative than topping WOW like I said before you dont need 9 mil subs to be a sucesses not everyone likes fantasy MMOs. A good game is without the grinds, endless loot fests, instances, collection grinds for shinys , and level grinds. Good character developement (skill based) open ended FFA PVP and actual game content that is geared for that particuar game not cribbed from WOW. There are people that prefer a sandbox type game to the cookie cutter that is WOW and other upcoming clones...
I've enjoyed WoW for past 3 years. But I feel this is the perfect time to move on. The unbalance is incredible - after 3 years of gameplay. And the 2v2 and 3v3 arena system will prove to be the biggest mistake ANY MMO has ever done. It threw WoW on its head - And now NOTHING can be done in terms of classbalance in ANY aspect of the game without totally fucking up any other aspects.
WOTLK will not be able to change that. Blizzard is staring it in the face that they are stuck with a game that they can't manage anymore. So thats why I move on to new game. To more serious gameplay where players are respected for their effort instead of the game developers throwing everything in buff/nerf cicle ever few months - Just cause they have no idea and no way of balancing things anymore.
I do have to add though with the problem of credit, gold, isk selling these days most MMO incluidng WOW have restrictive PVP rules as do most others , only one game so far Ive played that has open FFA PVP rules at anytime anywhere would allows you to combat the chinese farmers right then and there no banning and removal from the game just take them out there most of the time they are in the asteroid belts mining and pretty much striiping resources from our game its a great way to let off some steam and not get into trouble and noone cares if u grief them one of the best way to deal with this kind of problems that plauge our MMOs today ....
Comments
WoW's server population drasticly increases after 3pm... when school lets out.
Not to mention Diesel a HUGE portion of that 10 million number that is so easily tossed around is Europeans and Asians. 5 Million + of it actually. So out of the 5 million US players and from playing wow I know that 4.2 million of those are little kids.... It doesn't give me much incentive to play. OMG DAIRY QUEEN BBQ FTW. NOOB.
Kinda gets on your nerves after a while. I haven't logged into wow in about 6 months, and I feel all the better for it now. Once you break free from a shitty game and go back to good ones you really see how wow blinds most people from the truth. Good part is that the wow mez is starting to fade. It is evident in most games out right now, many games pops are starting to slowly climb back up.
DAoC on the rise again, EQ2 on the rise again, GW never dropped but still getting more, LOTRO on the rise, hell even D&DO back on the increase.
I know these games are on the rise because I play them, every day we get a few more players back from the wow strangle hold. The days of wow will soon fade, never completely because of it's insane popularity but for the simple fact that not everyone are lemmings, and even some lemmings can see the light and decide to think for themselves.
Actually last time they pointed out specific numbers NA users are only 2.5 to 3 Million the rest is Asians and a smattering of Europeans(still in the millions, still alot for Europe). The Asian users have always out number NA and Euro users combined.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
WoW's server population drasticly increases after 3pm... when school lets out.
After 3pm is also when a lot of adults get out of work.I bash WoW's pvp cause its meaningless and way too casual friendly. You need 2 braincells to do ok in it, and 5 to do great. The only reason to pvp in WoW is to grind pvp gear. It doesnt do shit to the rest of the server if you win or lose, and most people couldnt care less is you run around in season3 gear or whatever number they are at now. All it take to go to the top in WoW's arena is time. Its a mindless grind, like the rest of the game. But people seem to want this kinda gameplay so let em have it. I sincerly hope WAR, AOC or both take pvp to the next level, disregarding most of the crap WoW made an industry standard, both pvp- and pve-wise.
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
I really wish i could smack WoW fanbois who post about WoW in other forums...
Have you visited eq2flames.com recently? Yeah, the EQ2 community is sooo much more mature than the WoW community.
By the way, WoW isn't one community, it's many hundreds.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
You're right on one thing. The goal to PvP in WOW isn't all that complex. Its either for points in the BGs and Arenas, an ego stroke or simple survival on PvP servers. However, the battle mechanics, split second options & strategies are as complex as any MMO to date. You don't need to lose your shirt for PvP to matter in a MMO. It just has to be fun. According to the numbers more people find WOW PvP fun than most MMOs combined.
Hardcore PvPers haven't mattered....EVER=) If they mattered, Origin would'nt have created Trammel. ACDT would've been the most populated server until 8 or 9 yrs later. DOAC's PvP servers wouldn't have been empty a few months after they opened. ShadowBane wouldn't be a total dud. The Lineage series wouldn't be a flop in every region outside Asia. Eve would have more success outside Europe. In the US its hardly a blip.
Hardcore PvPers? You think any developer cares at all about them, esspecially Blizzard. On that note, name another MMO where their PvP matches are considered an e-sport? WOW's arenas have prize money valued at $120k. Pretty hardcore, dontcha think? I'm not involved in it, but people are willing to pay to get into tournaments. Besides, hardcore PvPers don't play MMOs. They play FPSs, get sposors and win money. They don't sit on forums and bitch on how WOW sucks=)
Guess what? WOW PvP isn't all about BGs and arenas and anyone who needs hardcore penalties to have fun isn't a PvPer. They're just a masochist. You want hardcore PvP, drop your gear every time you lose or punch yourself in the face. That way PvP can have more meaning for you without ruining it for the rest of us.
Guild Wars is not only considered an E-Sport but actually IS an e-sport. With yearly ladders that play for prizes and money.
Do not even try come back with the guild wars doesn't take skill argument either, because it will not hold water.
Guild Wars complexity and teamwork aspect of the 8 v 8 ladders takes a huge dump on WoW's pvp in every aspect. The teams of GW are built and comprised just like a CPL Counterstrike team over many countries.
Yes GW is free and houses MANY kiddies because of it. Truth of the matter still remains, it poops on wow's pvp. It also has everything you said other MMO's do not have, twitch fast paced combat, where your builds skills and anything else "complex" comes into play.
Still shaking my head how you think fear bombs, counter spell, polymorph, and the fabled mortal strike spam is "complex". WoW's PvP is garbage. It's PvE is ok, for what it is. Just quit trying to pass off WoW's pvp as the godsend to mankind.... because it blows donkey balls.
If you're so hardcore and WoW PvP is so easy to learn, why don't you win some of that $120,000 huh? I mean all you have to do is win a few arena games - you don't even need to have a character, you create a level 70 with the gear you need yourself. Surely such an non-complex game will be easy money for you?
I have a feeling those who claim that WoW's PvP is simple and easy haven't done very well in it.
See you in that easy PvP tournament for easy money, then?
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
I bash WoW's pvp cause its meaningless and way too casual friendly. You need 2 braincells to do ok in it, and 5 to do great. The only reason to pvp in WoW is to grind pvp gear. It doesnt do shit to the rest of the server if you win or lose, and most people couldnt care less is you run around in season3 gear or whatever number they are at now. All it take to go to the top in WoW's arena is time. Its a mindless grind, like the rest of the game. But people seem to want this kinda gameplay so let em have it. I sincerly hope WAR, AOC or both take pvp to the next level, disregarding most of the crap WoW made an industry standard, both pvp- and pve-wise.
Only 5 braincells to do great in PvP? Your arena ranking must be very high. Oh and there's a $120,000 tournament happening soon - easy money for someone with so many braincells.... right...?
You haven't got past level 20, I'm guessing.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
70 ally druid/70 horde priest..Done the maintank/dps/healbot job in the game. It is just too damn boring for me. Besides, you get a prerolled 70 toon with full pvp gear in those tournaments. Way to go Blizzard to make your game even more easy, as if it wasnt easy enough to begin with. But I'm done discussing this with delusional kids. I find WoW an extremely easy and boring game, but its popularity speaks volumes. Not for the quality of the game, but the general taste of its players. No wonder Britney Spears and all those shitty mainstream bands and music are that popular.
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
The answer is obvious, you can't, because you're totally wrong. Yet you called me 'delusional' and I think you're getting the meaning of the word muddled.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
So why would someone level 2 characters to 70 if the game took only a few brain cells? You spent so much time leveling up characters in a boring and easy game? Sounds like you have extremely lousy taste in games and an incredible amount of time to waste. How sad for you=)
I played Eve for an hour and knew it sucked for me. If I continued to play for a year and called it crap, what would that make me?
The answer is obvious, you can't, because you're totally wrong. Yet you called me 'delusional' and I think you're getting the meaning of the word muddled.
You just dont get it do you? I've stated numerous times that I find WoW easy, boring and predictable. Why should I be interested in some epeen contest in WoW? Tried WoW's version of pvp and I found it extremely boring, grindy and easy. I have no interest, none what so ever to repeat it.
And to Josher, I leveled those two toons up in a matter of around 1.5-2 months, spent some 5-6 months experiencing the endgame, both pve raids and pvp. It was fun leveling in the game, but the endgame is a completely different experience. To form an opinion of something you need to experience it, yes??? I had fun for a little while till the grind set in. That was when I quit the game. So you see, I played WoW, and had my fun in it, but in the end it couldnt hold my interest cause I found it boring, predictable and easy, too easy.
Second, to be perfecly honest, if you only played Eve for 1 hour you dont know jack about the game. You hardly got out of the first system in that time, maybe you managed to complete one mission. Hardly solid grounds to form an opinion of the game, no??
Funny though, the more I discuss this game in various forums the more I dislike it, and I dont even play it anymore. The people I discuss it with reeks of fanboism. I can understand why the haters hate this game so much. What brings out the hate is the players, not the game it seems.
Another thing I just cant wrap my head around, we are all gamers, but still some gamers look down on other gamers cause they got more free time to play games than they do. What is really stupid in my view is saying that another person got no life cause they play the game so much, while still the person saying it, even says it in the game. There are a multitude of reasons why some players got more, or less time than another player to play those videogames, but the narrow mindeness of some people just dont see it that way. So stuff those petty remarks and keep em to yourself, cause they fall of deaf ears. You only make yourself sound like an idiot.
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
Hahaha. Come on. So you're passing on all that money, for just winning such an "easy" game, because it bores you that much.
I'd love to know what you do for a living.
You of course will eventually realize your entire argument about PvP being so non-complex and easy for you crumbles to nothing when you consider why you can't possibly, even begin to hope, in a million years win that tournament, based on your lack of understanding of the way PvP works.
Edit: I never said I'd only played EVE for one hour. Are you just making things up now, or are you getting confused again? If you can't debate without getting yourself confused or making things up, just don't bother. To paraphrase yourself, "You make yourself look like an idiot".
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Sigh...The Eve thing wasnt for you, it was for Josher. Read the entire post next time.
Edit:I work for a tele company called Telenor here in Norway as a technician. I'm not rich, but I got no financial problems if that is what you are asking.
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
Alright, so answer my question. If that game is so easy, than that tournament money must be easy money. A telecoms technician would not be able to throw away 10s of thousands of dollars by playing a game he finds 'boring'?
But, you can't, because it would be too difficult for you to win. So it's not easy, is it? It feels like the questions I'm asking are rhetorical. Probably because they are.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Actually I beta tested Eve, took a break a few weeks before release, then started over again and realized after an hour the game was still boring and didn't improve.
If you're going to bash the game on the WoW forums, you should expect people to disagree with you - not because we're fanboys, but because you're bashing the game, not actually criticising it. To criticize something you must be objective.
WoW is not perfect, it's that the majority of criticisms you make aren't very well thought out. Saying a game like WoW is 'easy' says nothing unless why you state it's easy, youhave to compare the challenge to other games.
You have to say why camping a gate in EVE with other corp members and stealing ore from miners is more challenging than 5v5's in WoW's arena. You have to explain why fleet battles are so much more skillful than battlegrounds in WoW. Maybe you're right, but you're not doing a very good job at articulating why.
This is why I find absurd the whole 'WoW is easy' statement. It's 'easy' to find challenge in WoW. That doesn't make WoW easy, it makes it accessible.
It's hard to find a good skillful fight in EVE, because quite often the battle is often won before it starts, simply down to fleet logistics or numbers. That's inaccessibility, not difficulty.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Ah
That changed everything. But still, its developed far beyond what Eve was at the start nowadays. My little bro love that game to bits though. Me, I dont find it that interesting. It is too boring for me. Mine, fight, make stuff, mine, fight, make stuff and so on. Plus the alt thing really put me off Eve, that you cant train an alt the same time you train your main.
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
So what you're saying is, you would be able to win this tournament if the game did not bore you? This would mean that you are the best WoW player in the world, therefore making the game difficult for other players to beat you, therefore the game is difficult for everyone except for yourself.
Or, you would not be able to win, because the challenge was too difficult. Therefore, not easy.
Either way, I rest my case. It's pretty rock solid logic.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
So what you're saying is, you would be able to win this tournament if the game did not bore you? This would mean that you are the best WoW player in the world, therefore making the game difficult for other players to beat you, therefore the game is difficult for everyone except for yourself.
Or, you would not be able to win, because the challenge was too difficult. Therefore, not easy.
Either way, I rest my case. It's pretty rock solid logic.
No, I am not saying that. And no, the game aint difficult. Look at its own forums, both EU and US. People complain that stuff is too easy nowadays, if you can manage to navigate all the whiners, haters, lovers, trolls and jackasses you find there. If I would have won or not is not the issue, allthough I seriously doubt I would have. Too many wildcards at play, and I dont know the game good enough to counter everything thrown my direction. I still hold to that WoW's pvp is easy as hell, all you need is time to be successful in it. In a tournament setting though, stuff get mixed around as you dont have unlimited amounts of time to be successful in it. Anyway, the competition is not the issue here, the different looks we have of WoW's pvp/pve is.
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
As a consumer/ gamer and former wow subscriber plus avid MMO player, i would just like to state that wow sucks. WoW is a waterd down piece of junk that for some reason people find fun hey thats cool you play that one i'll play this one. But because WoW is the halo of MMO's it is overrated just like halo...people still play halo..but i dont.
These posts never fail to crack me up. Its as if some people simply believe in their ability to say, and then have done. I command thee, stop the bashing of WoW!
Hi-larious.
Man is born, man lives, man dies, and its all vanity.
As a tired argument and has been posted probably before I tried this game once for 3 months and just couldn't get into it for reasons:
1: Too many grinds
2: PVP Aspect of the game was horrible
3. Its level based (not skill based)
4. Graphics were too kiddie for me
5. Too many kiddies for me to deal with
6. Crafting Aspect Of Game was horrible its a Loot Based Be All End-Game Content
7. Raid Instances (another grind) and 8.....
8. Being told that this game is so great when its not just because a product is sucessful doesnt mean
everyone will embrace it like the masses do. Almost like saying Brtiney Spears had so many albums that
were hits and had lots of listeners but her music was garbage to most. And yes thats what Im saying this
game is pure rubbish.
Its sad to see the gaming industry try to emulate WOW and more and more I want to play any new MMOs less because of it. For example SWG (Star Wars Galaxies) was a game that was unique from the rest of the flock. Then WOW came in picture and $OE decides hey we ant those subscribers numbers and they killed the game and over 200k in customers loved all for this new target audience the kiddies and causal player wanting to make it "simple special" lumping all the professions into 9 cookie cutter with no real diversity. Taking everything out that was special about it and making it more user friendly was a slap in the face. Now look at SWG now its WOW-related target audience isnt there and now they are cribbing content from WOW now with raid like WOWeroics ( Heroic Instances) and your grindfest Collections pretty much nailed the last nail in the coffin. Thanks WOW for destroying my game !!!!!!
And why am I blaming WOW for my games demise cause the Pre-CU was too HARDDDDDD!!!! for you to learn and pick up and too complex for you to understand. Yes the learning curve of that version of SWG was difficult and took some time to figure out but after you did figure it out it was well worth it.. But you wanted simple and shiny trinkets, and foozle instances, and grinds and Loot BE all thats good !!! Not Crafters...!!!!
No WOW is killing the game industry with its game concepts the developers see $$$ and not think of anything more creative than topping WOW like I said before you dont need 9 mil subs to be a sucesses not everyone likes fantasy MMOs. A good game is without the grinds, endless loot fests, instances, collection grinds for shinys , and level grinds. Good character developement (skill based) open ended FFA PVP and actual game content that is geared for that particuar game not cribbed from WOW. There are people that prefer a sandbox type game to the cookie cutter that is WOW and other upcoming clones...
I've enjoyed WoW for past 3 years. But I feel this is the perfect time to move on. The unbalance is incredible - after 3 years of gameplay. And the 2v2 and 3v3 arena system will prove to be the biggest mistake ANY MMO has ever done. It threw WoW on its head - And now NOTHING can be done in terms of classbalance in ANY aspect of the game without totally fucking up any other aspects.
WOTLK will not be able to change that. Blizzard is staring it in the face that they are stuck with a game that they can't manage anymore. So thats why I move on to new game. To more serious gameplay where players are respected for their effort instead of the game developers throwing everything in buff/nerf cicle ever few months - Just cause they have no idea and no way of balancing things anymore.
I do have to add though with the problem of credit, gold, isk selling these days most MMO incluidng WOW have restrictive PVP rules as do most others , only one game so far Ive played that has open FFA PVP rules at anytime anywhere would allows you to combat the chinese farmers right then and there no banning and removal from the game just take them out there most of the time they are in the asteroid belts mining and pretty much striiping resources from our game its a great way to let off some steam and not get into trouble and noone cares if u grief them one of the best way to deal with this kind of problems that plauge our MMOs today ....