Cortanya, That's a nice theory but, A PKer is a player murderer. An anti-Pk is a PK murderer. An anti-PKer falls into group A and B at the same time. And I will add that most of the real world falls into the anti PK group and we'll call them group "superman", kay?
This is very true. In Lineage 2 I was a Pker Pker basically. Just going out and ganking some noob had zero appeal to me and found that most of the time these Pkers were people who totally sucked at PvP so they had to kill lowbies to get their thrills(At least this was true in Lineage 2). I used to go out and hunt PKers whenever I heard about them and gave them a taste of their own medicine. I found that nobody whined more or made more totally BS threats then a PKer you just ganked. They could dish it out but they certainly couldn't take it. lol
Edit: Not that I was totally anti-pk however. I protected PKers many times and actually when red myself when the situation warranted it. Like someone who ganked some asshat for griefing or just cleaned out a bot train which I did myself on occasion. I only hunted the losers that picked on lowbies for no reason except to get some kiddie thrill from it.
I understand that in the real world, we live as cut-throats. There is no mercy or sympathy for the losers, however dignified they are. They are always buried en masse, in mass graves, never to be identified once sacrificed. We formed a kind of society in which even the most bloodlust predator will shiver. At least, lions sit down and rest after filling their stomach, leaving the next zebra to feed on the grass for now. We do not lt go of anything even during our sleeps.
Real life at its must fundamental core (the universe) is firmly in "A". Human society is a mix of A and B; most people and activities incorporate elements of both. (Like PK's and anti-PK's)
In a game though, I want a short retreat from the harsh reality. I want to log in and relax a bit, without the constant fear of dying or the need to fight people. Actually I do not want to fight with any other human being. I have enough slaughtering them and being chopped at during daytime at work.
Just let me relive the something we called humanity, during my off hours.
Kidding :-).
That's understandable. If games are escapist, different people have different ideas of worlds they wish to "escape" to.
One person might want to play a game to escape from the dog-eat-dog real world.
Others might want to escape to a virtual world where there are no rules, where they might exercise the basest of our instincts: war, murder, pillaging, creation, destruction, competition.
The important thing is, neither model is inherently superior to the other. I may certainly like a realistic sim more than a linear RPG, but that's just what I think.
Something I see all the time- PKers often deride "carebears" for their taste in games, and vice versa.
What PKers have to understand is the so-called "carebears" can do without conflict in their games. Are they unskilled, uninformed about game mechanics, lacking in game knowledge, and the desire to win? That's a red herring. They don't think any of those should matter - regardless of whether they posess them or not - because they aren't playing to compete. They want to relax, and take it easy. Who doesn't once in a while?
Likewise, non-PKers should understand that PKers are not mental patients playing from the asylum's computer lab. Conflict is in our nature; competition is the very basis of biology itself. Our real world was built on those rules. There are people who live their lives based on some form of conflict. Some of them like it, and want it in their games.
We're not murderers on death row or future murderers stewing in a basement. We're the hypercompetitive trial attorney. We're the driven-to-succeed businessman. We're atheletes, engineers, politicians, military. The scholarship-seeking student or the high powered executive.
The world is full of people who pwn! in real life, and want to pwn! in games as well.
I understand that in the real world, we live as cut-throats. There is no mercy or sympathy for the losers, however dignified they are. They are always buried en masse, in mass graves, never to be identified once sacrificed. We formed a kind of society in which even the most bloodlust predator will shiver. At least, lions sit down and rest after filling their stomach, leaving the next zebra to feed on the grass for now. We do not lt go of anything even during our sleeps.
Real life at its must fundamental core (the universe) is firmly in "A". Human society is a mix of A and B; most people and activities incorporate elements of both. (Like PK's and anti-PK's)
In a game though, I want a short retreat from the harsh reality. I want to log in and relax a bit, without the constant fear of dying or the need to fight people. Actually I do not want to fight with any other human being. I have enough slaughtering them and being chopped at during daytime at work.
Just let me relive the something we called humanity, during my off hours.
Kidding :-).
That's understandable. If games are escapist, different people have different ideas of worlds they wish to "escape" to.
One person might want to play a game to escape from the dog-eat-dog real world.
Others might want to escape to a virtual world where there are no rules, where they might exercise the basest of our instincts: war, murder, pillaging, creation, destruction, competition.
The important thing is, neither model is inherently superior to the other. I may certainly like a realistic sim more than a linear RPG, but that's just what I think.
Something I see all the time-
PKers often deride "carebears" for their taste in games, and vice versa.
What PKers have to understand is the so-called "carebears" can do without conflict in their games. Are they unskilled, uninformed about game mechanics, lacking in game knowledge, and the desire to win? That's a red herring. They don't think any of those should matter - regardless of whether they posess them or not - because they aren't playing to compete. They want to relax, and take it easy. Who doesn't once in a while?
Likewise, non-PKers should understand that PKers are not mental patients playing from the asylum's computer lab. Conflict is in our nature; competition is the very basis of biology itself. Our real world was built on those rules. There are people who live their lives based on some form of conflict. Some of them like it, and want it in their games.
We're not murderers on death row or future murderers stewing in a basement. We're the hypercompetitive trial attorney. We're the driven-to-succeed businessman. We're atheletes, engineers, politicians, military. The scholarship-seeking student or the high powered executive.
The world is full of people who pwn! in real life, and want to pwn! in games as well.
The point of playing an online game is to compete with other players. Most if not all mmo s revolve around combat. If I can't fight other players why am I not in single player?
Because I can COOPERATE with other people?
cooperation and competition is a huge aspect in this genre. i prefer killing for no fucking reason. you may need a reason. Or you may just sit around and spam Chuck Norris jokes and piss everyone off till they teach you a fucking lesson. Its spammers ho m started me on pk. i pk because of them. Open PvP allowing PK anywhere puts those spammers 9 feet under. cooperation is not everything in a mmo. you don't need to cooperate with others to succeed. you could just PK and steal their shit
Judging by your post and your qoute, your the type of person who jas a 70 ally and camps in hillsbrad to kill people 40-50lvls lower then you. Now im not saying your not good at pvp which i feel like thats why those people are there but like you r oute says you are a asshole. which fits the gankers in wow.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
I understand that in the real world, we live as cut-throats. There is no mercy or sympathy for the losers, however dignified they are. They are always buried en masse, in mass graves, never to be identified once sacrificed. We formed a kind of society in which even the most bloodlust predator will shiver. At least, lions sit down and rest after filling their stomach, leaving the next zebra to feed on the grass for now. We do not lt go of anything even during our sleeps.
Real life at its must fundamental core (the universe) is firmly in "A". Human society is a mix of A and B; most people and activities incorporate elements of both. (Like PK's and anti-PK's)
In a game though, I want a short retreat from the harsh reality. I want to log in and relax a bit, without the constant fear of dying or the need to fight people. Actually I do not want to fight with any other human being. I have enough slaughtering them and being chopped at during daytime at work.
Just let me relive the something we called humanity, during my off hours.
Kidding :-).
That's understandable. If games are escapist, different people have different ideas of worlds they wish to "escape" to.
One person might want to play a game to escape from the dog-eat-dog real world.
Others might want to escape to a virtual world where there are no rules, where they might exercise the basest of our instincts: war, murder, pillaging, creation, destruction, competition.
The important thing is, neither model is inherently superior to the other. I may certainly like a realistic sim more than a linear RPG, but that's just what I think.
Something I see all the time-
PKers often deride "carebears" for their taste in games, and vice versa.
What PKers have to understand is the so-called "carebears" can do without conflict in their games. Are they unskilled, uninformed about game mechanics, lacking in game knowledge, and the desire to win? That's a red herring. They don't think any of those should matter - regardless of whether they posess them or not - because they aren't playing to compete. They want to relax, and take it easy. Who doesn't once in a while?
Likewise, non-PKers should understand that PKers are not mental patients playing from the asylum's computer lab. Conflict is in our nature; competition is the very basis of biology itself. Our real world was built on those rules. There are people who live their lives based on some form of conflict. Some of them like it, and want it in their games.
We're not murderers on death row or future murderers stewing in a basement. We're the hypercompetitive trial attorney. We're the driven-to-succeed businessman. We're atheletes, engineers, politicians, military. The scholarship-seeking student or the high powered executive.
The world is full of people who pwn! in real life, and want to pwn! in games as well.
Yes but there should be a limit too this. Do you really get enjoyment out of taking out new players? I see no problem with say close to max lvl putting out the FFA type thing with some player looting at max lvl.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
My sides on MMORPGs. Hardcore > Casuals/Carebears PK > APK Wolfs > Sheeps Killers/Achievers > Socializers/Explorers Old generation > New generation Free PVP > Consensual PVP Time and Effort spent on the game > anything else
Define hardcore? (btw I dont think anything involving a game can be hardcore and if you do thats sad). But do you think you wasting time killing a player is anymore hardcore then taking down a raidboss? or that doing raids doesnt take time and effort, or that by playing pve a person cant achieve something? The majority of the MMO market is casual. I dont think will see any major game with this full PK stuff.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
The whole debate is pretty much summed up with this statement. "Survival of the Fittest" For PK. "Play the game nicely, and because you dont i kill you" for Anti's. "Save me while i spam" for n00bs.
Fact is the mainstream is all about PVP and you will never get away from that. I myself don't see the point in PVE cause it's boring against stupid AI and I just want to fight against other people because smack talking to them is fun and then they get all angry and quit lol.
I guess I don't understand your fact.
I enjoyed PvP in UO... early UO before the murder system etc. Yes full open.. full loot pvp.
But even going back that far and going fast forward till today... every part of the MMO industry has pretty much agreed that what you describe is 10% (yes 10 percent) of the market.
How is that mainstream?
One would think that the 9 out of 10 market is mainstream...
The "real" pvp market is a niche market.. which can make someone a profit. There is a reason no mainsteam MMO has gone after it tho.. Niche isn't mainstream /shrug
Fact is the mainstream is all about PVP and you will never get away from that. I myself don't see the point in PVE cause it's boring against stupid AI and I just want to fight against other people because smack talking to them is fun and then they get all angry and quit lol.
I guess I don't understand your fact.
I enjoyed PvP in UO... early UO before the murder system etc. Yes full open.. full loot pvp.
But even going back that far and going fast forward till today... every part of the MMO industry has pretty much agreed that what you describe is 10% (yes 10 percent) of the market.
How is that mainstream?
One would think that the 9 out of 10 market is mainstream...
The "real" pvp market is a niche market.. which can make someone a profit. There is a reason no mainsteam MMO has gone after it tho.. Niche isn't mainstream /shrug
full loot PvP is the best but even better in the murder system!
Comments
Cortanya,
That's a nice theory but,
A PKer is a player murderer.
An anti-Pk is a PK murderer.
An anti-PKer falls into group A and B at the same time.
And I will add that most of the real world falls into the anti PK group and we'll call them group "superman", kay?
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
This is very true. In Lineage 2 I was a Pker Pker basically. Just going out and ganking some noob had zero appeal to me and found that most of the time these Pkers were people who totally sucked at PvP so they had to kill lowbies to get their thrills(At least this was true in Lineage 2). I used to go out and hunt PKers whenever I heard about them and gave them a taste of their own medicine. I found that nobody whined more or made more totally BS threats then a PKer you just ganked. They could dish it out but they certainly couldn't take it. lol
Edit: Not that I was totally anti-pk however. I protected PKers many times and actually when red myself when the situation warranted it. Like someone who ganked some asshat for griefing or just cleaned out a bot train which I did myself on occasion. I only hunted the losers that picked on lowbies for no reason except to get some kiddie thrill from it.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
Real life at its must fundamental core (the universe) is firmly in "A". Human society is a mix of A and B; most people and activities incorporate elements of both. (Like PK's and anti-PK's)
That's understandable. If games are escapist, different people have different ideas of worlds they wish to "escape" to.
One person might want to play a game to escape from the dog-eat-dog real world.
Others might want to escape to a virtual world where there are no rules, where they might exercise the basest of our instincts: war, murder, pillaging, creation, destruction, competition.
The important thing is, neither model is inherently superior to the other. I may certainly like a realistic sim more than a linear RPG, but that's just what I think.
Something I see all the time-
PKers often deride "carebears" for their taste in games, and vice versa.
What PKers have to understand is the so-called "carebears" can do without conflict in their games. Are they unskilled, uninformed about game mechanics, lacking in game knowledge, and the desire to win? That's a red herring. They don't think any of those should matter - regardless of whether they posess them or not - because they aren't playing to compete. They want to relax, and take it easy. Who doesn't once in a while?
Likewise, non-PKers should understand that PKers are not mental patients playing from the asylum's computer lab. Conflict is in our nature; competition is the very basis of biology itself. Our real world was built on those rules. There are people who live their lives based on some form of conflict. Some of them like it, and want it in their games.
We're not murderers on death row or future murderers stewing in a basement. We're the hypercompetitive trial attorney. We're the driven-to-succeed businessman. We're atheletes, engineers, politicians, military. The scholarship-seeking student or the high powered executive.
The world is full of people who pwn! in real life, and want to pwn! in games as well.
Real life at its must fundamental core (the universe) is firmly in "A". Human society is a mix of A and B; most people and activities incorporate elements of both. (Like PK's and anti-PK's)
That's understandable. If games are escapist, different people have different ideas of worlds they wish to "escape" to.
One person might want to play a game to escape from the dog-eat-dog real world.
Others might want to escape to a virtual world where there are no rules, where they might exercise the basest of our instincts: war, murder, pillaging, creation, destruction, competition.
The important thing is, neither model is inherently superior to the other. I may certainly like a realistic sim more than a linear RPG, but that's just what I think.
Something I see all the time-
PKers often deride "carebears" for their taste in games, and vice versa.
What PKers have to understand is the so-called "carebears" can do without conflict in their games. Are they unskilled, uninformed about game mechanics, lacking in game knowledge, and the desire to win? That's a red herring. They don't think any of those should matter - regardless of whether they posess them or not - because they aren't playing to compete. They want to relax, and take it easy. Who doesn't once in a while?
Likewise, non-PKers should understand that PKers are not mental patients playing from the asylum's computer lab. Conflict is in our nature; competition is the very basis of biology itself. Our real world was built on those rules. There are people who live their lives based on some form of conflict. Some of them like it, and want it in their games.
We're not murderers on death row or future murderers stewing in a basement. We're the hypercompetitive trial attorney. We're the driven-to-succeed businessman. We're atheletes, engineers, politicians, military. The scholarship-seeking student or the high powered executive.
The world is full of people who pwn! in real life, and want to pwn! in games as well.
Well Said
Because I can COOPERATE with other people?
cooperation and competition is a huge aspect in this genre. i prefer killing for no fucking reason. you may need a reason. Or you may just sit around and spam Chuck Norris jokes and piss everyone off till they teach you a fucking lesson. Its spammers ho m started me on pk. i pk because of them. Open PvP allowing PK anywhere puts those spammers 9 feet under. cooperation is not everything in a mmo. you don't need to cooperate with others to succeed. you could just PK and steal their shit
Judging by your post and your qoute, your the type of person who jas a 70 ally and camps in hillsbrad to kill people 40-50lvls lower then you. Now im not saying your not good at pvp which i feel like thats why those people are there but like you r oute says you are a asshole. which fits the gankers in wow.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Real life at its must fundamental core (the universe) is firmly in "A". Human society is a mix of A and B; most people and activities incorporate elements of both. (Like PK's and anti-PK's)
That's understandable. If games are escapist, different people have different ideas of worlds they wish to "escape" to.
One person might want to play a game to escape from the dog-eat-dog real world.
Others might want to escape to a virtual world where there are no rules, where they might exercise the basest of our instincts: war, murder, pillaging, creation, destruction, competition.
The important thing is, neither model is inherently superior to the other. I may certainly like a realistic sim more than a linear RPG, but that's just what I think.
Something I see all the time-
PKers often deride "carebears" for their taste in games, and vice versa.
What PKers have to understand is the so-called "carebears" can do without conflict in their games. Are they unskilled, uninformed about game mechanics, lacking in game knowledge, and the desire to win? That's a red herring. They don't think any of those should matter - regardless of whether they posess them or not - because they aren't playing to compete. They want to relax, and take it easy. Who doesn't once in a while?
Likewise, non-PKers should understand that PKers are not mental patients playing from the asylum's computer lab. Conflict is in our nature; competition is the very basis of biology itself. Our real world was built on those rules. There are people who live their lives based on some form of conflict. Some of them like it, and want it in their games.
We're not murderers on death row or future murderers stewing in a basement. We're the hypercompetitive trial attorney. We're the driven-to-succeed businessman. We're atheletes, engineers, politicians, military. The scholarship-seeking student or the high powered executive.
The world is full of people who pwn! in real life, and want to pwn! in games as well.
Yes but there should be a limit too this. Do you really get enjoyment out of taking out new players? I see no problem with say close to max lvl putting out the FFA type thing with some player looting at max lvl.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Define hardcore? (btw I dont think anything involving a game can be hardcore and if you do thats sad). But do you think you wasting time killing a player is anymore hardcore then taking down a raidboss? or that doing raids doesnt take time and effort, or that by playing pve a person cant achieve something? The majority of the MMO market is casual. I dont think will see any major game with this full PK stuff.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
The whole debate is pretty much summed up with this statement. "Survival of the Fittest" For PK. "Play the game nicely, and because you dont i kill you" for Anti's. "Save me while i spam" for n00bs.
I enjoyed PvP in UO... early UO before the murder system etc. Yes full open.. full loot pvp.
But even going back that far and going fast forward till today... every part of the MMO industry has pretty much agreed that what you describe is 10% (yes 10 percent) of the market.
How is that mainstream?
One would think that the 9 out of 10 market is mainstream...
The "real" pvp market is a niche market.. which can make someone a profit. There is a reason no mainsteam MMO has gone after it tho.. Niche isn't mainstream /shrug
I enjoyed PvP in UO... early UO before the murder system etc. Yes full open.. full loot pvp.
But even going back that far and going fast forward till today... every part of the MMO industry has pretty much agreed that what you describe is 10% (yes 10 percent) of the market.
How is that mainstream?
One would think that the 9 out of 10 market is mainstream...
The "real" pvp market is a niche market.. which can make someone a profit. There is a reason no mainsteam MMO has gone after it tho.. Niche isn't mainstream /shrug
full loot PvP is the best but even better in the murder system!
i agree