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General: GDC: The Future of MMOs - Consoles?
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
While at the Game Developer's Conference, Jon Wood moderated a panel called "The Future of MMOs" populated by some of the biggest names in the MMO industry. Today, he presents his impressions of the panel's answer to the question of whether or not future developers will need to worry about both a PC and a console version of their games.
In this, the second part of the report on The Future of MMOs panel, I ask the gathered developers if consoles are the way of the future for MMOs, and whether or not future MMOs will have to be developed cross-platform in order to be successful.
As a reminder to the readers, the panel was made up of developers much more knowledgeable than I: Jack Emmert from Cryptic Studios, Matt Miller from NCsoft, Ray Muzyka from Bioware, Min Kim from Nexon and Rob Pardo from Blizzard.
The thought process behind this question, I felt, was fairly obvious. While up until now, it has been fairly easy to think about MMORPGs as a PC – only genre (they aren’t, games like Final Fantasy XI and Phantasy Star have been running on consoles for a while now), the upcoming launch of the PC version of Funcom’s Age of Conan and the pending Xbox 360 release of that same game, as well as SOE’s The Agency, are making more and more people question whether consoles will become the medium of choice for MMO developers.
Read it all here.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
I find this good. As long I am able to play on Xbox Live with other people, then on certain games (like AoC), I would wrather play it on console (although usually I am a PC person.).
The one bad thing with consoles is that you attract a different kind of crowd. I'm sure, for example, that AoC will have more mature people playing on PC than on the Xbox version (since much younger people have Xbox Live).
Persoanally, I like to have an option between PC and console, so I can look into both of them and see whhich I would wrather play on.
__________________________________________________
In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
Is it easier for devs to make games on consoles? I agree with Rob, that putting games on console, and especially for MMOs, that it will dumb down an MMO way too much then we already have now. The only reason I can see devs wanting to dumb down a game so it can fit a console is so they can make more money with a mutliple medium. Unfortunate for us who like complex games like Old SWG and especially games like Eve, hell a consule version of WOW would introduce more and more mindless gameplay
Do you best to try and convince them to stay away from console, or at the very least, have them not mix the two medias.
I Reject your Reality and Substitute it with My Own!
Erm, this point of view really confuses me... Why would using a control pad and mics over Live (or whatever) to commicate be any 'dumber' then using a mouse/ keyboard and Vent? Does it effect lore? Plot? Characterisation? Difficulty or complexity level?
The answer is, of course, no.
Mass Effect, for example, is as complex, well made, immersive, and challenging as any of it's peers on the PC.
'Intelligent' content is not defined by the contoller or the machine, it is defined by the target audience.
As that target audience has changed, and will continue to change as machines like the Wii and games like Rock Band are putting consoles in the middle of the family, so will the type of games that are offered on them. A game like Spore being developed for the Wii is proof positive of this. APB and AoC (MMOs both) coming on the 360 is more. The fact that they have had WAR running on a 360 already should prove a lot to anyone who is questioning cross platforming as a realistic future in the MMORPG space.
The target audience for consoles has changed in the last 5 years or so, it's just some people here still base an outdated prejudice on what consoles represented before that change.
Erm, this point of view really confuses me... Why would using a control pad and mics over Live (or whatever) to commicate be any 'dumber' then using a mouse/ keyboard and Vent? Does it effect lore? Plot? Characterisation? Difficulty or complexity level?
The answer is, of course, no.
Not just that,but they could add keyboard / mouse for the systems. XBOX360 does have a USB port you know.I myself can't wait for when mmo's go on consoles. Playing on my 52 inch TV and sitting on my couch will make my day.
I cant wait till I can have the same game on both and being able to log on the same account from either my PC or my xbox. Lets face it if you have family members on the computer or TV you have another option. How cool would it be to just sit back in a recliner and play an mmo on ur tv??
I think the switch to consoles will be a good thing. I actually wish it already happened, and cannot wait for the first AAA MMO for consoles.
They way I think about it -
1. Performance - It's got to be loads easier to program a game that you know is going to be played on a single machine, a console, rather then something that is designed to work on nearly any conceivable PC variation. This will improve graphics and performance, decrease developer time and money.
2. Ease of access - Now, us MMO vets have no problem installing a PC game, patching it, etc. but I'd rather just be able to pop in a disc and go. You can do this on consoles.
3. - Gameplay - The big one. Obviously, with a console you don't have a full keyboard and mouse setup. Yes, you can use kb/mouse on some consoles already (360) but a MMO designed for use with the controller wouldn't be "dumbed down".
Simple controls doesn't equal simple game play. Someone else mentioned Mass Effect, easy controls, complex and exciting game play. Or any console shooter. No more or less complex then PC counterpart, the compexity and challenge come from the game play itself, not the control medium.
If anything, designed a MMO for console would create a game with a less cluttered and more user-friendly interface. The simpler control mechanics could be used to create a more challenging and action-packed game play experience. Look at Fighting games, relatively simple controls, nearly infinite complexity and strategy.
4. Third party - No need for third party software like Ventrillo or Teamspeak on consoles like 360, server hosting and support via xboxlive, all the built in communications and guild tools xbox live offers, etc.
5. Cost effectiveness - This would be the big one, the MMO developers would have to realize that people are already paying the 5.99 a month or whatever it is for the xboxlive service etc. so they'd have to offer the montly subscription to their game at a cheaper price. Then not only do you get access to your MMO, but all the features and games with xbox live at the same time. I know Microsoft would consider this a big win.
So yeah, personally I cannot wait.
THAT is what people are talking about....in case the rest of you don't get it. You don't pee off your current player base by ruining their characters or completely disabling their abilities to tthe point that they can't be played any more. People put alot of "work" and time into their characters trying to get them to be the "best" etc/
SOE should have..imho...fired every single one of those lamers who did that to SWG.....the gaming community has not forgotten that faux pas..to this day.
Keep the console players needs and wants separate from the MMO players needs and wants..and you will have happy gamers...
As for games that were large hits as standalone games....think Betheseda and Oblivion.....I have heard rumours that Betheseda has some cash and is thinking of making an MMO.
If they could pull that off....Oblivion ..online or some such...that would be a killer game...methinks. Hopefully the Devs of these larger well known games..keep these think tanks going...there has to be something for everyone out there...console gamer and MMO player alike...keep on trucking!
Cendharia
Ok for starters Rob didn't say that games on consoles would be "dumb down" and that he prefers MMO's on PC.
Second, Yes the console market would be great for more money, bigger publishing and bigger recognition to the MMO market and the matter of the fact is all games devs and publishers want that. Look at Mass effect and Bioshock, they both are brilliant examples of games on consoles that are complex and intelligent enough to still be put on a console.
Thirdly, the games you've quoted there are games specifically made for PC and that particular audience, so of course those games wouldn't do so well on console but newer MMO's can be just as good if not better.
So I believe as well as many other gamers here or around the world would agree that MMO's moving to the console gives better opportunities to more people to play and bigger communities which will increase the biggest demanding genre of this era the MMO.
P.S.
I totally agree with Vesavius's statement and it's about time people started opening their minds instead of being close minded.
TrueWhipsnade
--I'm the True Whipsnade--
Exactly.
In all truth, the vast majority of "casual" gamers play on the PC. Especially things like online games (Hearts, poker, etc.)
Even owning a console means you are a more serious gamer then most "casual" PC gamers.
Systems like the Wii and services like the Xbox Live Arcade are bringing more and more casual PC gamers to the console market.
PC players who make remarks like this kill me. People who play console games are no less intelligent than pc owners. I am an adult I have always owned console and a PC and I enjoy both. You dont need to dumb down anything for consoles the same thing will work as on a pc, a prime example is FFXI which runs well on all platforms. This kind of PC eltieism is going the way of the dinosaurs as gaming becomes more of a mainstream form of entertainment, step into the 2000's open your mind and quit stereotyping people.
Also to others who act like consoles have kids playing and pc's don't, wake up PC are as common in homes as tv's and microwaves and the children usually no more about them than the adults lol.
No signature, I don't have a pen
Ok for starters Rob didn't say that games on consoles would be "dumb down" and that he prefers MMO's on PC.
Second, Yes the console market would be great for more money, bigger publishing and bigger recognition to the MMO market and the matter of the fact is all games devs and publishers want that. Look at Mass effect and Bioshock, they both are brilliant examples of games on consoles that are complex and intelligent enough to still be put on a console.
Thirdly, the games you've quoted there are games specifically made for PC and that particular audience, so of course those games wouldn't do so well on console but newer MMO's can be just as good if not better.
So I believe as well as many other gamers here or around the world would agree that MMO's moving to the console gives better opportunities to more people to play and bigger communities which will increase the biggest demanding genre of this era the MMO.
P.S.
I totally agree with Vesavius's statement and it's about time people started opening their minds instead of being close minded.
It has nothing to do with close-mindedness and everything to do with what we as long-time players have experienced over the years...as an example I have been playing online since 1995..so I have pretty much seen alot of whats happening.
Games are businesses.......and if they lean towards the console gamer and forget the rest of us..in order to cater to the console...then they are going to lose a large part of the already established community that plays MMO's ....my thing is that they should be careful where they tread. Far as I am concerned there is room for both kinds of gamers...and probably in the future...given the numbers in Wow and the console market...what will happen is the MMO genre as we know it today...may fail and disappear.
But as long as I ...personally am still gaming, I do prefer the company of other folks in the MMO market of today.
Those of us who..like me....have played a long time..are not necessarily "casual" either..so lay that stereotype aside.........I am on my game every day for long hours...because I can do that.
I pay good money and expect to be entertained for what I pay for.......and personally am not attracted to console ..period.
I play Oblvion..but that is on my PC, and ...the only thing that Oblivion lacks..is other people, for me.
Lets allow for both types of players..and some open discussion here, instead of the stereotyping etc...that has started in this thread.
Cend
I agree, you will only dumb down an mmo on the console. I think and I think the other poster thought that FFXI is considered a dumbed down game, compared to much more complex mmos. Some genres just don't mesh on the console like a Strategy Games. The keypad is too limiting. On consoles the game is also limited to the console to its specs which are usually lower then the PC. If history has shown anything, the life on a console for an MMO is short. For Example Phantasy Star Online. Sure they released many upgraded versions, but does anyone still play the original?
PC players who make remarks like this kill me. People who play console games are no less intelligent than pc owners. I am an adult I have always owned console and a PC and I enjoy both. You dont need to dumb down anything for consoles the same thing will work as on a pc, a prime example is FFXI which runs well on all platforms. This kind of PC eltieism is going the way of the dinosaurs as gaming becomes more of a mainstream form of entertainment, step into the 2000's open your mind and quit stereotyping people.
Also to others who act like consoles have kids playing and pc's don't, wake up PC are as common in homes as tv's and microwaves and the children usually no more about them than the adults lol.
Its not PC elitism....think again..check my post on what happened to SWG....SOE was in a big ol rush to get into the console market with one of their games...so instead of creating for the console, they took an already established game with already established subscribers and destroyed upwards of 34 professions and disabling some character builds completely....in their rush to "iconic" for the console.
THAT is the industry example..and that is what we are talking about....
Cend
When MMO's hit consoles like they hit PC's it will change things.
That is a huge market, dumbed down games or not, and once the consolers get the addiction only us pc gamers understand it will move quickly.
And TBH it won't be that dumbed down, you have a kb hooked up usually so the potential for a pc-like game is there.
Shift happens.
But I agree with you...that the wave of the future will probably be overwhelmingly slanted toward the console players.
Long as us PC players aren't left in the dust..I'll be happy.
Cend
At no time in its history (Pre-9, Pre-CU, CU, NGE or post Chapter 6) has SWG been bug free, stable, complete, polished or directed to the general acceptance of the common MMO market. It has always been a case that brand assoication was thought to overshadow any problems the game has to the common buyers. You want to blame the devs, but I say go to the head of the problem, the producers and market researchers. We who post here will always be viewed as a minority audiance of Hard Core Gamers who do not repesent Joe Consumer who they want playing thier game. Trouble is, who does Joe Consumer go to for information on a given game?
Consoles are the way of the future.
I like both PC and console games but why play a mmorpg on a PC when you can play the same game on console?
I dont need Vent or TS, I dont need X fire , I dont need to upgrade my graphx card or memory for the new release every six months, I dont have to worry about system requirements or buy/building a brand new Pc for the EXACT SAME BS MMORPG that comes out every year.
You say DUMB DOWN?????/ Just look at the mmorpg market today......
They are all pretty much dumbed down.
I can use a keyboard with my 360 just like I can use a xbox style controller on my PC.
I can get a larger variety of games for the console and most are more enjoyable.
Just my opinions, thats all......
No signature, I don't have a pen
I believe mmorpgs on consoles would be possible, but the game mechanics would be completly different. And such a game would have to be only and just for the console. If it would be PC and console it would suck as you simply cant combine such different play styles.
Personaly I dont like consoles as you still need a PC for other things and owning both costs a lot.
And on a PC you have a lot more free hands by which I mean installing new programs, upgrading hardware...
And, about the comment that XBox Live would make MMOs cheaper...dream on. Do you really think devs would make fees smaller just becouse you are allready paying Microsoft? Has anyone made anything cheaper becouse you are already paying your internet provider? Think a bit...
I can play multiple accounts on one PC at the same time, try that with a console.
Well, we certainly won't be seeing many MMO's on the consoles available to consumers today. Not going to happen. BTW the xbox version of Conan has no announced date, they are only saying it is probably 6 months down the road from the PC release.
Consoles need a mouse and keyboard to play a MMO, any game that claims it can be played with a controller alone is NOT a MMO. You also have to consider that a MMO takes lots of disk space and needs lots of room for updates, that will stress most of the existing console systems.
Primary reason why the MMO will remain on the PC for quite some time is graphics. Even my kids 4 year old PC has far better graphics capability than his xbox-360.
So, so much for your experts on having any clue what the future will bring. If you have stock in their companies I suggest you sell immediately, they don't seem to have much foresight. The last thing anyone wants is a dumbed down MMO that is mainly for consoles. Any such game will flop big time.
In literal sense, the future of MMOs will be consoles. Whether we like it or not, more developers would want to reach larger audiences and they are aiming at the console market now. So it is the future.
But does the future of MMOs lies with consoles?
That being said, I see good and bad about such future.
First, most players who play console games are ones who play action games, and this includes the FPS games as well. So in order to reach these gamers, developers would have to make their MMOs more and more fast-paced to match the expectation of the console gamers. Unless the console gamers would change to fit the speed of the MMO games (a more slower feel, not necessary less action). This has yet to be seen to see the result from the focus on consoles.
I do see good in the sense that by allowing MMO to be more accessible to gamers of all genre, it could help push MMOs into another new height, and better development. Also, by focusing the console as the medium, the game would have to design to fit the existing systems, which means players do not need high-end hardware that needs to constantly upgrading to run next-gen. games.
So, I am waiting to see what will come of it.
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
Plus you can keep telling me till you are blue in the face that things need to be dumbrd down for console owners but what none of you admit is alot of people playing these console are pc players also, so quit with the generalizing!
No signature, I don't have a pen
PC " You need a mouse and keyboard to play RTS "
Console " Why they made the game to work on a controller "
PC " Well it works better on a mouse and keyboard everyone knows that "
Console " Why does it matter when everyone is on the same medium "
PC " Ummm ummm can't play MMORPG's on console's it will be dumbed down without a keyboard and mouse "
Console " Why you can make hotkeys on controllers just like other RPG's "
PC " Well everything is just better on a PC "
Console " I'm sorry you were basing your e-peen on a mouse and keyboard "