From my point of view, if they don't integrate a crafter oriented game they better keep it simple and hassle free. Crafters won't like it in any case and if they don't like the other aspects of the game, they won't play it at all. The OP is a prime example.
Gathering million of nodes to create thousand of junk items just so as to "level" your crafting skills is not something that I consider as a solid crafting mechanics. Perhaps if they could make the creation of the intermediate items meaningful in a sense, the whole thing might feel different. I believe VG tried something different with NPCs placing orders. Sounds good in concept but I've never played the game (will probably do at some point) so I can't comment on how good the system is from a crafter's perspective.
EQ2 had an interesting system but it did get boring staring at a box pushing buttons after a while.
SWG was more about resource gathering than actually crafting. At least that's where the majority of time was spent on. Still, a very good system overall. I don't think anybody surpassed it. Maybe Ryzom tried but that game is in the death bed at the moment.
As I said in another thread, this game will be judged by the positives and the negatives. The balance will dictate whether we are interested in participating and whether it will keep our interest in the long run. For pure crafters the balance seem to be shifted to the negative part. Unfortunately I can't seem to think of a game that is available or coming up soon that has a crafter system. I tried to do that in EVE (very good crafting system as well) but never managed to get tied to an organisation that could provide the infrastructure for crafting, thus I was just a miner until I quit.
On the positive side, the quest system of learning a crafting profession seem interesting in theory. The crafting materials becoming readily available and easy to gather seem interesting from another point of view. If creating good gear is only dependant on getting hold of a good crafter, while the actual materials are easy enough to gather, maybe we can have a harsher PvP penalty system in place.
One thing that is not clear from my point of view are related to the money sinks. I'm sure there will be various ways of generating an income. Especially from adventurers, monster slaying does generate money out of nothing. How will the system remove money from the world is still something unknown. Maybe the keeps will be enough of a money sink for the big guilds, but what about everyone else? This is also tied to the amount of penetration the gold farming companies will have in the game economy.
It's bad that they don't focus more on crafting. But I don't doubt it can be a fun game.
Earthrise and Darkfall have intresting crafting (on paper tho), reminds more of SWGs complex crafting system. I can't say that I prior the crafting but I'll do it regular.
______________________________ The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess. And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic' and send them to the Special Olympus.
I'm curious as to what crafting systems are any good right now. What are you comparing AoC's system to? I'd be plenty happy if I got all of my gear/consumables from killing or from quest rewards or from vendors. In WoW, getting to be good at any individual trade skill often requires access to raid loot and several other trade skills (like making one cool items requires items that only someone with another skill can produce). It isn't fun; it's a chore and a huge time/money sink that only pays gold back if you spend days doing crap just for the Auction Houses. And in that game it seems like by the time you get good enough to make something decent with many of the skills you've already found/earned something much better anyways so you're just working for alts or the AH anyways. I won't play that nonsense again.
SWG in the early days have very very meaningful economy in which crafting, resources collection and combat are fully interwoven in an interesting way. The resources are naturally obtain, you skin something you killed that have hides. But the skin is not static. Actually it changes in "nature" every now and then, so the skin for this duration and this server is good for making bandages but after this duration (every now and then the entire resources table changes, and it changes randomly for each server), it may be better for another craft output.
All the good weapons/armor comes from crafters, who rely on adventurers (everyone) to collect mats. Merchants or crafting players can set up vendor machines (no AH falling from heaven and managed by God & Co. Ltd) but merchants can do the job better ... . You have to walk from houses to houses, each one clearly seen on the territory (not instanced) to check the items being made. You have to find out the location of each house, and that is half the fun of exploration --> check every house.
Crafters have to discover how to improve their items, so the gun from vendor A is not the same gun from vendor B, and each batch for the same vendor may differ. Oh imagine the fun shopping around. Imagine the fun hiring people to collect the right resources for you, imagine the intensity of competition when suddenly the world resources shift and the best mats are dropped currently.
Not to mention the additional twists of splicing by smugglers, the issues about rate of item decay ...
Talking about crafting, that is what I remember as the best crafting, not just b/c its good, but that it is built as part of the game, of the economy, of the community. Of cos, that does not serve as a reply to your question, cos we do not have that game any more. Sigh ....... sigh
IMHO, this game deserves much more of a crafting system than it has at present. Until then, I wish Funcom the best with their release of AoC. Avery, keep doing an amazing job covering AoC. It was nice knowing you as a guild mate and I'm glad to consider you a friend. To all you crafters out there, the next "big thing" for us looks like Fallen Earth. Everything there evolves around crafting and reverse engineering.
IMHO any game deserves a better crafting. Its to late. The game will release like this and wont change very much in future. Its easier to revamp combat on a life server then revamp itemization. I suggest you go and play on PvE as long as the game is fun. No offence... i will do it that way. 4-8 months fun probably.
The current hitman paradigm (kill == fun == more reward) will rule MMOs for quite a while. Someone a few posts above said it well. Its the exodus of online worlds.
I think I am going to like the new ways they are doing crafting. I mean the advancing through quests, instead of endlessly making the same item. I do think being able to make the items anywhere, is kind of crazy. For some craft skills, you could understand, but for weapon or armor smithing, you WOULD need a station to do that at.
To be honest, I'm not very passionate about crafting myself. It has always been more of a timesink for me, rather than a goal. Having valuable resources in zones where a powerful guild can stake them out, does not sound very promising.
I agree with your comment regarding guilds. This game is looking like it's going to be a game that caters to the "uber" guilds and won't be much fun unless you are in one. I think I've pretty much scratched it off my list of games to try.
I'm obviously still "thinking" about trying it or I wouldn't be here. But it isn't looking good so far.
I'm curious as to what crafting systems are any good right now. What are you comparing AoC's system to? I'd be plenty happy if I got all of my gear/consumables from killing or from quest rewards or from vendors. In WoW, getting to be good at any individual trade skill often requires access to raid loot and several other trade skills (like making one cool items requires items that only someone with another skill can produce). It isn't fun; it's a chore and a huge time/money sink that only pays gold back if you spend days doing crap just for the Auction Houses. And in that game it seems like by the time you get good enough to make something decent with many of the skills you've already found/earned something much better anyways so you're just working for alts or the AH anyways. I won't play that nonsense again.
There are very few items that you need raid drops to craft with. Almost all of the top end crafted items in WoW require Primal Nethers and those can be gotten off the Sha'tar quartermaster. Right now, I'm following WAR and Fallen Earth in hopes of a good crafting system. Fallen Earth is all about crafting to include reverse engineering.
I am sorry but that is just false. The items you can make with primal nethers were obsolete almost a year ago. I had maxed out swordsmithing early on and my crafted 1 handed sword and crafted 2 handed sword, which required primal nethers, were cool up through Kharazan, but after that they were quickly replaced by arena rewards. You can get the arena awards with a lot less hassle.
To get the mats you need for better items in WoW you had to be in a raid guild that was raiding the larger raids. Only by being in a raid guild, and typically spending DKP, could you acquire the primal vortexes you needed to go beyond the introductory weapons. However, even those weapons were obsolete when I quit WoW and I quit a good 6 or 8 months ago. If you weren't in a raid guild that was doing the absolute highest end dungeons then it was impossible to get mats that would make your weapons competitive with comperable arena weapons. I'm sure the current arena weapons are even better than the ones I was able to get when I quit. They may have added another tier of crafted weapons since I quit, but if they did I'm sure they require high end raiding just like the primal vortexes and such.
WoW's crafting system was a complete waste of my time and gold.
I'm curious as to what crafting systems are any good right now. What are you comparing AoC's system to? I'd be plenty happy if I got all of my gear/consumables from killing or from quest rewards or from vendors. In WoW, getting to be good at any individual trade skill often requires access to raid loot and several other trade skills (like making one cool items requires items that only someone with another skill can produce). It isn't fun; it's a chore and a huge time/money sink that only pays gold back if you spend days doing crap just for the Auction Houses. And in that game it seems like by the time you get good enough to make something decent with many of the skills you've already found/earned something much better anyways so you're just working for alts or the AH anyways. I won't play that nonsense again.
There are very few items that you need raid drops to craft with. Almost all of the top end crafted items in WoW require Primal Nethers and those can be gotten off the Sha'tar quartermaster. Right now, I'm following WAR and Fallen Earth in hopes of a good crafting system. Fallen Earth is all about crafting to include reverse engineering.
I am sorry but that is just false. The items you can make with primal nethers were obsolete almost a year ago. I had maxed out swordsmithing early on and my crafted 1 handed sword and crafted 2 handed sword, which required primal nethers, were cool up through Kharazan, but after that they were quickly replaced by arena rewards. You can get the arena awards with a lot less hassle.
To get the mats you need for better items in WoW you had to be in a raid guild that was raiding the larger raids. Only by being in a raid guild, and typically spending DKP, could you acquire the primal vortexes you needed to go beyond the introductory weapons. However, even those weapons were obsolete when I quit WoW and I quit a good 6 or 8 months ago. If you weren't in a raid guild that was doing the absolute highest end dungeons then it was impossible to get mats that would make your weapons competitive with comperable arena weapons. I'm sure the current arena weapons are even better than the ones I was able to get when I quit. They may have added another tier of crafted weapons since I quit, but if they did I'm sure they require high end raiding just like the primal vortexes and such.
WoW's crafting system was a complete waste of my time and gold.
No, it is still Season 3 gear. Thank you for proving my point. S3 weapons are on close to on par with the most elite crafted weapons. Not everyone has those and not everyone should. That is like the swords for warriors and rogues off Illidan. Sure, it would be nice for everyone to have them, but their are legendary for a reason. It is an absolute lie that you need the best of the best to be competitive WoW. Even wow bought into the same mentality. Kill + kill some more = the only way to have fun. It is frustrating and boring. Saying that, because of the gold selling companies, one can see why the companies have gone this route.
I guess more of us should have appreciated SWG pre-CU. It was a one-of-a-kind game. Don't know if we'll ever see a crafting system like that again, but if we ever do, they'll have my business.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
You know, in some ways a 'crafting village' idea makes a lot of sense to me. Mining and gathering is usually done in groups at quarries and such. I've never really been that keen on falling over random bits of stone that stick out of the ground in most MMOs. One example is the quarry in the starting areas of Ironforge, in WoW. There's these dwarves mining at a quarry, but if you go there, all the copper and tin is in little rocky blobs, sometimes inside the quarry, but mostly outside of it. Surely I should be hacking away at the walls of the quarry like the rest of the dwarf miners...
Naturally, I do understand why they use the node system, but the AOC version makes a teeny bit more sense to my immersion sensibilities. We'll see I guess, when I get to play it.
AC2 had the same thing. You could craft anywhere. You found stuff while adventuring, and used those items to craft stuff right there. So you never had to go to town. You never had to interact with anyone. So it was like playing a single player game
It was a total failure. I think they ended up redoing the system, but by then everyone had quit.
AC1 got a very similar crafting system to AC2's added at pretty much the same time AC2 came out. It wasn't so much a crafting system as an addition to the loot tables and things to do with loot. AC1 didn't crash and burn after the addition. AC2 didn't crash and burn because of their crafting system.
I'm all for an interesting and involving world - maybe a medieval Sim game (although I've never played the Sims) with combat options, battles and wars and without weird critters planted every 15's that only make sense in pac man and space invaders - I'd certainly try it but I'm not sure it would impact the MMO market. And a medieval Sim-like game and/or realism and/or player interactions has virtually nothing to do with crafting or the lack thereof in AoC or any current MMO.
As for WoW - my main had S3 weapons well before he had maxed any trade skills. It's not so much that it's easier to do, but it is more fun and far more interesting/challenging to fight with other players against other players than it is to grind for crap. I'm not even convinced that the preceding statement is subjective.
I dislike crafting. That said, I don't mind if a game has a good crafting system that other players can really enjoy.
It only irks me when the games economy is designed so that only crafters can really prosper economically so that I'm forced to craft myself. (which seems to be most games).
As long as developers can keep it balanced, I'm all for a deep crafting system. As far as I can tell, AOC has more than enough depth for a person like myself, but I can understand why others would be disappointed.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Crafting can be fun. But as others have pointed out, if you make it so people have to rely on crafters, everyone takes up crafting because relying on other people stinks in a game where travel time is not instant, or availability at 3AM is poor, etc.
I see a desire for a "more detailed crafting system".
I've seen detailed crafting systems. They are more "tedious" than detailed. They add more steps to the same process, while not adding entertainment. Sure, some people love a 50 part build on a sword. Means few people will be willing to compete against them in the sword making profession. But is that FUN? Will it draw in more people to play the game by making it so a select few can dominate a server's sword market? Fun for those few, sucks for everyone else.
As many of you probably know by now, crafting in AoC has finally shown it's true colors. Unfortunately, from what we've been show by Avery and Funcom over the past few weeks, the great game of AoC is going to have one very glarying weakness and that is it's very weak crafting system. After reading Avery's post http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/165712 and seeing the videos from the GDC '08, and reading what Lord Orion had to say from http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=54742&highlight=has+the+game&page=9 : "It is correct that right now you can craft anywhere at any time, provided you have the resources and possibly the instruments required (like a sewing kit). We simply decided we didn't want the time sink of having to travel across the world to craft.
I can confirm, however, that we are looking into changing this a little bit based on all the feedback we've been reading on the forums about crafting (we always listen to constructive feedback from you ladies and gamermen!).
I am not at all promising that anything will change, but we're playing around with different ideas. One of the ideas is to have crafting of higher tier items restricted to certain areas, such as the guild cities. In the current system we have today some item recipes do require certain guild city buildings for the players to be able to use those recipes, but you can still craft it anywhere you want in thegame world as long as your guild owns that building in their city. One thing we may or may not add is requiring the player to actually be near that building in the guild city in order to actually craft that item from that recipe.
This is one of the ideas we're playing around with, and we may or may not decide to change the system.
We'll see how we progress through beta." What we are left with is three restricted zones where we can readily farm resources (one in each nation) and rare chances of crafting resources to drop while adventuring. I'm sorry, that sounds too weak to be believable and IMHO, the Funcom developer who designed this system should be completely ashamed. (Instances for resource farming where you compete with others for the same resources if you are even high enough level to gather said resources, please!!!!!) Sounds like a choke point for gankers to me! What we have seen and read about crafting is what we get. They say they have no time left to do anything else with crafting. That is a shame. Maybe a year or two after release (hopefully sooner), someone at Funcom will realize a missed opportunity to capture the imagination of the crafter community. If it happens, my self and many others will rejoin the community. IMHO, this game deserves much more of a crafting system than it has at present. Until then, I wish Funcom the best with their release of AoC. Avery, keep doing an amazing job covering AoC. It was nice knowing you as a guild mate and I'm glad to consider you a friend. To all you crafters out there, the next "big thing" for us looks like Fallen Earth. Everything there evolves around crafting and reverse engineering.
Can I have your stuff if you decide to play and then leave?
Im totally done with nodehunting competition and resourcerefine timers. Unless they would implement an original crafting system (think SWG resource gathering for example), I wont miss crafting.
No levels and gathering schematics through quests, sounds fine to me.
As a casual gamer (from the perspective of attention span and time available) this is positive news to me.
I see crafting as a means to and end, not the end in itself and I find it annoying when I have to log into a game and spend 2 hours of my time producing an item when I could be doing something I actually enjoy, like PvP or an instance.
I have a lot of respect for Funcom and their efforts to remove the timesinks from AoC and focus on the things players tend to enjoy.
If you're a crafting fan, I guess this news sucks but I feel and hope AoC is pitched at a casual majority playerbase and I doubt there are legions of crafting fanatics.
When exclusivity enters crafting you start getting the same snobbery entering the game that timesink raids generate. Players feel they should be considered special just because they have invested hours into doing something. God knows why this should be the case and I feel quality (i.e. skill) rather than quantity (i.e. time invested) is more important.
I can never understand the fascination with in-game crafting either. If I was that way inclined, I'd take up woodwork or something genuinely skilled IRL since the option exists. Unfortunately, there's no RL alternative to killing giant monsters or seige battles...
Playing: Ableton Live 8 ~ ragequitcancelsubdeletegamesmashcomputerkillself ~
As a casual gamer (from the perspective of attention span and time available) this is positive news to me. I see crafting as a means to and end, not the end in itself and I find it annoying when I have to log into a game and spend 2 hours of my time producing an item when I could be doing something I actually enjoy, like PvP or an instance. I have a lot of respect for Funcom and their efforts to remove the timesinks from AoC and focus on the things players tend to enjoy. If you're a crafting fan, I guess this news sucks but I feel and hope AoC is pitched at a casual majority playerbase and I doubt there are legions of crafting fanatics. When exclusivity enters crafting you start getting the same snobbery entering the game that timesink raids generate. Players feel they should be considered special just because they have invested hours into doing something. God knows why this should be the case and I feel quality (i.e. skill) rather than quantity (i.e. time invested) is more important. I can never understand the fascination with in-game crafting either. If I was that way inclined, I'd take up woodwork or something genuinely skilled IRL since the option exists. Unfortunately, there's no RL alternative to killing giant monsters or seige battles...
As a casual gamer (from the perspective of attention span and time available) this is positive news to me. I see crafting as a means to and end, not the end in itself and I find it annoying when I have to log into a game and spend 2 hours of my time producing an item when I could be doing something I actually enjoy, like PvP or an instance. I have a lot of respect for Funcom and their efforts to remove the timesinks from AoC and focus on the things players tend to enjoy. If you're a crafting fan, I guess this news sucks but I feel and hope AoC is pitched at a casual majority playerbase and I doubt there are legions of crafting fanatics. When exclusivity enters crafting you start getting the same snobbery entering the game that timesink raids generate. Players feel they should be considered special just because they have invested hours into doing something. God knows why this should be the case and I feel quality (i.e. skill) rather than quantity (i.e. time invested) is more important. I can never understand the fascination with in-game crafting either. If I was that way inclined, I'd take up woodwork or something genuinely skilled IRL since the option exists. Unfortunately, there's no RL alternative to killing giant monsters or seige battles...
no but you could always join the armed forces
Yeah, but I can't pick my battles like I can in an MMO. Plus, and let's be honest, I'd shit myself instantly on a real battlefield. I'm not a fan of perma-death.
Playing: Ableton Live 8 ~ ragequitcancelsubdeletegamesmashcomputerkillself ~
Why do every PvE-Monkey who don't like crafting believe that he HAS to craft?
There's a REASON crafters (and looters) can sell their wares ya know...
So if you feel forced in a game to spend 2 hours crafting for a item... Perhaps if you bothered to look around on other players instead of the "solo mentality", you'd find the exact item for sale for a price that would have you slay monsters for 10 minutes instead of 2 hour crafting!
Is there anyone that can tell me a quick run down on exactly whats good and bad about crafting in Conan, have always enjoyed crafting when there is nothing else to do, but how does it work in conan?
Why do every PvE-Monkey who don't like crafting believe that he HAS to craft? There's a REASON crafters (and looters) can sell their wares ya know...
So if you feel forced in a game to spend 2 hours crafting for a item... Perhaps if you bothered to look around on other players instead of the "solo mentality", you'd find the exact item for sale for a price that would have you slay monsters for 10 minutes instead of 2 hour crafting!
Some crafting items in some game are not sellable. Many games crafting economies is not as well balanced as say EvE where there are many good ways to make money. On the PvP server of EQ2 crafting/gathering is often sited as THE way to make enough money to not get slaughtered by the other twinks. In fact it was so bad at one point that if you just wanted to start EQ2 and PvP and not get repeatedly slughtered over and over in seconds you had to do about 10 hours of crafting grind. And if you did not want to do that then you weren't tough enough for the PvP server. So it can get quite silly.
In theory what you say has some merit, in practice is has often not been the case. So some of these people have valid concerns.
In my opinion, the crafting at launch will be more than good enough to get by. Crafting at the launch of the game, IMHO, is minimally important in the grand scheme of things. GL tho, thats just my opinion. If the combat is not good, itemization not proper, etc, then you would have nobody to sell your crafted goods to in teh first place. I like how they are thinking on this one.
i'm a little worried at the lack of crafting stuff on websites. crafting on the official site is a post from 2006 0_o.
crafting wont be the be all end all for me but it will be damn good if its like SWG (you need a special machine that can usually only be accessed in a high lvl area and thus not crafting wherever you please)
either way crafting will be in the game and we wont really know much til the game is released.
*gets his axe ready to fell some trees for the guild*
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds -Solid non level based game -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Comments
From my point of view, if they don't integrate a crafter oriented game they better keep it simple and hassle free. Crafters won't like it in any case and if they don't like the other aspects of the game, they won't play it at all. The OP is a prime example.
Gathering million of nodes to create thousand of junk items just so as to "level" your crafting skills is not something that I consider as a solid crafting mechanics. Perhaps if they could make the creation of the intermediate items meaningful in a sense, the whole thing might feel different. I believe VG tried something different with NPCs placing orders. Sounds good in concept but I've never played the game (will probably do at some point) so I can't comment on how good the system is from a crafter's perspective.
EQ2 had an interesting system but it did get boring staring at a box pushing buttons after a while.
SWG was more about resource gathering than actually crafting. At least that's where the majority of time was spent on. Still, a very good system overall. I don't think anybody surpassed it. Maybe Ryzom tried but that game is in the death bed at the moment.
As I said in another thread, this game will be judged by the positives and the negatives. The balance will dictate whether we are interested in participating and whether it will keep our interest in the long run. For pure crafters the balance seem to be shifted to the negative part. Unfortunately I can't seem to think of a game that is available or coming up soon that has a crafter system. I tried to do that in EVE (very good crafting system as well) but never managed to get tied to an organisation that could provide the infrastructure for crafting, thus I was just a miner until I quit.
On the positive side, the quest system of learning a crafting profession seem interesting in theory. The crafting materials becoming readily available and easy to gather seem interesting from another point of view. If creating good gear is only dependant on getting hold of a good crafter, while the actual materials are easy enough to gather, maybe we can have a harsher PvP penalty system in place.
One thing that is not clear from my point of view are related to the money sinks. I'm sure there will be various ways of generating an income. Especially from adventurers, monster slaying does generate money out of nothing. How will the system remove money from the world is still something unknown. Maybe the keeps will be enough of a money sink for the big guilds, but what about everyone else? This is also tied to the amount of penetration the gold farming companies will have in the game economy.
It's bad that they don't focus more on crafting. But I don't doubt it can be a fun game.
Earthrise and Darkfall have intresting crafting (on paper tho), reminds more of SWGs complex crafting system. I can't say that I prior the crafting but I'll do it regular.
______________________________
The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess.
And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic'
and send them to the Special Olympus.
All the good weapons/armor comes from crafters, who rely on adventurers (everyone) to collect mats. Merchants or crafting players can set up vendor machines (no AH falling from heaven and managed by God & Co. Ltd) but merchants can do the job better ... . You have to walk from houses to houses, each one clearly seen on the territory (not instanced) to check the items being made. You have to find out the location of each house, and that is half the fun of exploration --> check every house.
Crafters have to discover how to improve their items, so the gun from vendor A is not the same gun from vendor B, and each batch for the same vendor may differ. Oh imagine the fun shopping around. Imagine the fun hiring people to collect the right resources for you, imagine the intensity of competition when suddenly the world resources shift and the best mats are dropped currently.
Not to mention the additional twists of splicing by smugglers, the issues about rate of item decay ...
Talking about crafting, that is what I remember as the best crafting, not just b/c its good, but that it is built as part of the game, of the economy, of the community. Of cos, that does not serve as a reply to your question, cos we do not have that game any more. Sigh ....... sigh
The current hitman paradigm (kill == fun == more reward) will rule MMOs for quite a while. Someone a few posts above said it well. Its the exodus of online worlds.
I think I am going to like the new ways they are doing crafting. I mean the advancing through quests, instead of endlessly making the same item. I do think being able to make the items anywhere, is kind of crazy. For some craft skills, you could understand, but for weapon or armor smithing, you WOULD need a station to do that at.
Osahar Ismassri
Conscript of King's Guard
http://guild-of-kings-guard.com/
I dislike the idea that you are able to craft anything anywhere, you should be near the smith to actually smith anything...
I mean Funcom is aiming for realism in this game.
I agree with your comment regarding guilds. This game is looking like it's going to be a game that caters to the "uber" guilds and won't be much fun unless you are in one. I think I've pretty much scratched it off my list of games to try.
I'm obviously still "thinking" about trying it or I wouldn't be here. But it isn't looking good so far.
There are very few items that you need raid drops to craft with. Almost all of the top end crafted items in WoW require Primal Nethers and those can be gotten off the Sha'tar quartermaster. Right now, I'm following WAR and Fallen Earth in hopes of a good crafting system. Fallen Earth is all about crafting to include reverse engineering.
I am sorry but that is just false. The items you can make with primal nethers were obsolete almost a year ago. I had maxed out swordsmithing early on and my crafted 1 handed sword and crafted 2 handed sword, which required primal nethers, were cool up through Kharazan, but after that they were quickly replaced by arena rewards. You can get the arena awards with a lot less hassle.
To get the mats you need for better items in WoW you had to be in a raid guild that was raiding the larger raids. Only by being in a raid guild, and typically spending DKP, could you acquire the primal vortexes you needed to go beyond the introductory weapons. However, even those weapons were obsolete when I quit WoW and I quit a good 6 or 8 months ago. If you weren't in a raid guild that was doing the absolute highest end dungeons then it was impossible to get mats that would make your weapons competitive with comperable arena weapons. I'm sure the current arena weapons are even better than the ones I was able to get when I quit. They may have added another tier of crafted weapons since I quit, but if they did I'm sure they require high end raiding just like the primal vortexes and such.
WoW's crafting system was a complete waste of my time and gold.
There are very few items that you need raid drops to craft with. Almost all of the top end crafted items in WoW require Primal Nethers and those can be gotten off the Sha'tar quartermaster. Right now, I'm following WAR and Fallen Earth in hopes of a good crafting system. Fallen Earth is all about crafting to include reverse engineering.
I am sorry but that is just false. The items you can make with primal nethers were obsolete almost a year ago. I had maxed out swordsmithing early on and my crafted 1 handed sword and crafted 2 handed sword, which required primal nethers, were cool up through Kharazan, but after that they were quickly replaced by arena rewards. You can get the arena awards with a lot less hassle.
To get the mats you need for better items in WoW you had to be in a raid guild that was raiding the larger raids. Only by being in a raid guild, and typically spending DKP, could you acquire the primal vortexes you needed to go beyond the introductory weapons. However, even those weapons were obsolete when I quit WoW and I quit a good 6 or 8 months ago. If you weren't in a raid guild that was doing the absolute highest end dungeons then it was impossible to get mats that would make your weapons competitive with comperable arena weapons. I'm sure the current arena weapons are even better than the ones I was able to get when I quit. They may have added another tier of crafted weapons since I quit, but if they did I'm sure they require high end raiding just like the primal vortexes and such.
WoW's crafting system was a complete waste of my time and gold.
No, it is still Season 3 gear. Thank you for proving my point. S3 weapons are on close to on par with the most elite crafted weapons. Not everyone has those and not everyone should. That is like the swords for warriors and rogues off Illidan. Sure, it would be nice for everyone to have them, but their are legendary for a reason. It is an absolute lie that you need the best of the best to be competitive WoW. Even wow bought into the same mentality. Kill + kill some more = the only way to have fun. It is frustrating and boring. Saying that, because of the gold selling companies, one can see why the companies have gone this route.
I guess more of us should have appreciated SWG pre-CU. It was a one-of-a-kind game. Don't know if we'll ever see a crafting system like that again, but if we ever do, they'll have my business.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
You know, in some ways a 'crafting village' idea makes a lot of sense to me. Mining and gathering is usually done in groups at quarries and such. I've never really been that keen on falling over random bits of stone that stick out of the ground in most MMOs. One example is the quarry in the starting areas of Ironforge, in WoW. There's these dwarves mining at a quarry, but if you go there, all the copper and tin is in little rocky blobs, sometimes inside the quarry, but mostly outside of it. Surely I should be hacking away at the walls of the quarry like the rest of the dwarf miners...
Naturally, I do understand why they use the node system, but the AOC version makes a teeny bit more sense to my immersion sensibilities. We'll see I guess, when I get to play it.
AC2 had the same thing. You could craft anywhere. You found stuff while adventuring, and used those items to craft stuff right there. So you never had to go to town. You never had to interact with anyone. So it was like playing a single player game
It was a total failure. I think they ended up redoing the system, but by then everyone had quit.
AC1 got a very similar crafting system to AC2's added at pretty much the same time AC2 came out. It wasn't so much a crafting system as an addition to the loot tables and things to do with loot. AC1 didn't crash and burn after the addition. AC2 didn't crash and burn because of their crafting system.
I'm all for an interesting and involving world - maybe a medieval Sim game (although I've never played the Sims) with combat options, battles and wars and without weird critters planted every 15's that only make sense in pac man and space invaders - I'd certainly try it but I'm not sure it would impact the MMO market. And a medieval Sim-like game and/or realism and/or player interactions has virtually nothing to do with crafting or the lack thereof in AoC or any current MMO.
As for WoW - my main had S3 weapons well before he had maxed any trade skills. It's not so much that it's easier to do, but it is more fun and far more interesting/challenging to fight with other players against other players than it is to grind for crap. I'm not even convinced that the preceding statement is subjective.
I dislike crafting. That said, I don't mind if a game has a good crafting system that other players can really enjoy.
It only irks me when the games economy is designed so that only crafters can really prosper economically so that I'm forced to craft myself. (which seems to be most games).
As long as developers can keep it balanced, I'm all for a deep crafting system. As far as I can tell, AOC has more than enough depth for a person like myself, but I can understand why others would be disappointed.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Crafting can be fun. But as others have pointed out, if you make it so people have to rely on crafters, everyone takes up crafting because relying on other people stinks in a game where travel time is not instant, or availability at 3AM is poor, etc.
I see a desire for a "more detailed crafting system".
I've seen detailed crafting systems. They are more "tedious" than detailed. They add more steps to the same process, while not adding entertainment. Sure, some people love a 50 part build on a sword. Means few people will be willing to compete against them in the sword making profession. But is that FUN? Will it draw in more people to play the game by making it so a select few can dominate a server's sword market? Fun for those few, sucks for everyone else.
Can I have your stuff if you decide to play and then leave?
Im totally done with nodehunting competition and resourcerefine timers. Unless they would implement an original crafting system (think SWG resource gathering for example), I wont miss crafting.
No levels and gathering schematics through quests, sounds fine to me.
All I wanna know is....
Why are all the the's red?
Wish Darkfall would release.
As a casual gamer (from the perspective of attention span and time available) this is positive news to me.
I see crafting as a means to and end, not the end in itself and I find it annoying when I have to log into a game and spend 2 hours of my time producing an item when I could be doing something I actually enjoy, like PvP or an instance.
I have a lot of respect for Funcom and their efforts to remove the timesinks from AoC and focus on the things players tend to enjoy.
If you're a crafting fan, I guess this news sucks but I feel and hope AoC is pitched at a casual majority playerbase and I doubt there are legions of crafting fanatics.
When exclusivity enters crafting you start getting the same snobbery entering the game that timesink raids generate. Players feel they should be considered special just because they have invested hours into doing something. God knows why this should be the case and I feel quality (i.e. skill) rather than quantity (i.e. time invested) is more important.
I can never understand the fascination with in-game crafting either. If I was that way inclined, I'd take up woodwork or something genuinely skilled IRL since the option exists. Unfortunately, there's no RL alternative to killing giant monsters or seige battles...
Playing: Ableton Live 8
~ ragequitcancelsubdeletegamesmashcomputerkillself ~
no but you could always join the armed forces
no but you could always join the armed forces
Yeah, but I can't pick my battles like I can in an MMO. Plus, and let's be honest, I'd shit myself instantly on a real battlefield. I'm not a fan of perma-death.
Playing: Ableton Live 8
~ ragequitcancelsubdeletegamesmashcomputerkillself ~
Why do every PvE-Monkey who don't like crafting believe that he HAS to craft?
There's a REASON crafters (and looters) can sell their wares ya know...
So if you feel forced in a game to spend 2 hours crafting for a item... Perhaps if you bothered to look around on other players instead of the "solo mentality", you'd find the exact item for sale for a price that would have you slay monsters for 10 minutes instead of 2 hour crafting!
Is there anyone that can tell me a quick run down on exactly whats good and bad about crafting in Conan, have always enjoyed crafting when there is nothing else to do, but how does it work in conan?
-Jive
In theory what you say has some merit, in practice is has often not been the case. So some of these people have valid concerns.
In my opinion, the crafting at launch will be more than good enough to get by. Crafting at the launch of the game, IMHO, is minimally important in the grand scheme of things. GL tho, thats just my opinion. If the combat is not good, itemization not proper, etc, then you would have nobody to sell your crafted goods to in teh first place. I like how they are thinking on this one.
i'm a little worried at the lack of crafting stuff on websites. crafting on the official site is a post from 2006 0_o.
crafting wont be the be all end all for me but it will be damn good if its like SWG (you need a special machine that can usually only be accessed in a high lvl area and thus not crafting wherever you please)
either way crafting will be in the game and we wont really know much til the game is released.
*gets his axe ready to fell some trees for the guild*
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads