To the people who say that ebaying does not effect the quality of the gameplay for all others I want to say that you are blinded by your petty greed. Games should be recreational and not a suorce of income. The minute you start selling items to support yourself, you are not longer playing a game, you are working. Kinda kills the fun don't you think?
A lot of people here think they are making good money on this, but I bet that your are not even making minimum wages unless you live in China.
A few examples of how you are killing the games you exploit to make petty cash:
By farming more rare items than you actually need -camping spots of rare loot, excluding regular players from getting said items.
By selling high level accounts that are used by buyers to further scam and rip off other players untill they become blacklisted.
Giving inexperienced players high lvl accounts that they don't know jack about, that frustrate experienced players, because they get killed because the doc don't know how to heal..ect
Ruining game comunities. Well...Ask anyone that plays L][ how they feel about sweatshop workers that play their game for income and not to take part in the comunity.
The people that buy on Ebay are dumbasses that have too much money, and would prolly also use cheats to get ahead. They fail to see that they are misunderstanding the whole concept of the games they play. The goal is not to "win" a MMO, but to have fun playing it. Also, when skipping the initial game they often miss some of the best and most intertaining content.
All experienced gamers shy Ebayers like the plague and there is a reason for that. They are stealing their time with incompetent play, and the people who sell them their items are facilitating this.
Ebaying is disruptive and most games have rules agains it, so when you Ebay you are breaking the rules and should be banned.
Just because a lot of people are doing it, does not make it right. Dont be a Lemming. No one (that matters) will think you are cool because you made a few bucks on playing computergames, and it certainly wont be anything you can use on a CV or future reference, as a real job would be.
Warcriminal, nothing of what you said is really a reason. If you have the spare money and there is someone who is willing to sell its time/effort for a price both parties find as fair, why not? The buyer might be a noob who has most of his friends already way up ahead in personage experience and wants just to catch up quick to play with them. He might be a busy businesman who has just no time to get there through 1000 deaths and wasted evenings. The reasons can be thousand.
Its all about offer and demand really. Some do spend hard cash on some earings for some chick in the hopes of getting laid that night, others spend it on a ready to play personage in a game they obviously feel greatly attracted to.
Anyone is familiar with the "Magic the Gathering" card game? Recall how much a Black Lotus was worth? or a Beta "Time warp"? pretty much the same story
Yes...I am well aware that these things are governed by supply and demand, but how excatly does that make it all right?
Are you denying that the reasons I mentioned are valid?
I can tell you that I have experienced every single one of them personally and I felt them greatly disruptive for my game quality and so does every one else that gets ripped off by a Ebayer, excluded from loot, currency or gets their time ruined by teamsmates that don't know how to play the game.
hehe he said all that i wanted to say and was thinking.Not to mention alot of these companys like eq and diabloii if they really really wanted too they could problaby sue.especiall battlenet it a non profit play for free online.Stuff like this is also boarderline on blackmarketing.
I must agree with everyones replies so far, whether it's positive or negative to buying items from a company auction such as Ebay for a game.
One thing I think was failed to be mentioned is selling or buying items for a game is fun to the gamer doing it. Yes most must obtain a job and make $ in a job they may not always be happy to be in. Most will leave that said job if it becomes to unbarable for them. If a gamer wants to make his/her own business selling items from a game they love to play, to help others obtain that highly sought after item, what is wrong with that? Yes, it may affect others in the game, but those finding rare items by playing the game are also affecting the game. If a player finds an item and wants to make profit by selling to someone who wants the item, I think that helps the community more than hurts it. The seller has already found the item, no other player can obviously find it.
I was subjected to Ebay buying from soliciting bots across Bnet. I had spent a year playing Diablo 2 LOD, with little success on finding elite items that would help me compete in PvP. Though the topic of duplicated or hacked items hasn't really come up in responses, these items exist. When duplicated or hacked items start to appear, this is when I start feeling the game has taken a turn for the worse. Selling a legit item found in a game is fair to me. Selling items that may be duplicated or hacked is not fair to me. Now Diablo 2 LOD was not a MMO, so I must stay on track. I can't honestly say items in a MMO are legit or hacked. Those experienced players on Diablo 2 LOD know some items are hacked, there is no other explaination for why thousands of an item with 1:1 million scarcity exist at a time, with hundreds of said scarce items all appearing in great abundance.
I can say from personal experience that Ebay buying became an obsession for me. I just had to have the best items and use my skills collected to use them and end the lives of fellow PvP who were naked killing others. How else could the game become fair? Start duplicating or hacking items yourself? As most may be thinking now, the answer appeared to me from my empty bank account- STOP PLAYING THE GAME NOW!
In summation- when a game no longer becomes fun, and you start to rely on buying elite or rare items, it is time to STOP PLAYING THE GAME! As many have said, it is more rewarding to find items yourself and play in a server where the game is fair- when this starts to become untrue, STOP PLAYING THE GAME.
depends on the game, Some will ban you for selling on ebay, and lock out accounts sold on ebay (if they find out). Some don't care. In AO theres a heavy price on eBayers. since alot of players sell the item in game for the equivilant in game cost as the could sell the games currency on eBay, end result, that bad ass hammer I want for my enforcer will cost me 75$ on ebay or 500mill in game...
On the bright side, the low levs who are building thier toons get some high levs to make fun of for a change (ebay'd accounts) including one sucker who thought everyone must know who he was, since the guy he baught his account from told him there were only about 5 or 6 people in the game with MP's that high... It was fun to whatch him mouth off about it, then have about 10-20 stand around him... those were the ones in the area...
Originally posted by TheMagickDoll Also, selling such things on ebay, if I recall right, is also illegal.
It is not ILLEGAL. It is against the rules. Two separate things altogether... Illegal means you are breaking a law. Nothing illegal about it. No law that says I cannot sell something on eBay. If I sell it in game using Platinum it is legal, if I sell it out of game using dollars it is illegal. I don't think so...
If the developer decides you have broken the rules, they can do something about it within their rights, but you still have not broken a law.
No different than if you are in a bar and you break the rules. They ask you to leave and you don't. Then and only then have you broken a law, tresspassing. But by breaking the rules, you did not break a law.
I still say, no harm no foul. Let them sell their stuff. If someone is willing to buy it, then it is for sale. That is a capitalist society.
Are you selling a virtual item that does not actually exist? Or are you selling the time and knowledge spent to acquire that item? Buying something that is virtual and does not actually exist is crazy, but if you are buying the time and knowledge spent, then it makes sense. If that item would take 10 hours of my real life time, then that item is worth $25/hr. x 10 hrs. $250 of my time at work. So, it is up to the individual how much his time is worth.
Personally, I play the game for the enjoyment of having done it, so I have never bought (or sold for that matter) any in game items on eBay.
Wooo, good point Tas, but you have to keep in mind there are laws protecting intellectual property. And the ELUA you agree to allows you the use of there intellectual property. And some games MAY (I've never fully read any of the EULA's so I don;t know if there ARE any) forbid the resaleof your license with out concent from the company. In which case it would become illegal
I'm not saying it IS illegal, I'm pretty sure in most cases it's just breaking the EULA, but in some cases it may be.
Originally posted by Sketch Wooo, good point Taz, but you have to keep in mind there are laws protecting intellectual property. And the ELUA you agree to allows you the use of there intellectual property. And some games MAY (I've never fully read any of the EULA's so I don;t know if there ARE any) forbid the resaleof your license with out concent from the company. In which case it would become illegal
I would still argue it. As you have not sold the intellectual property. If the company Sony (for example) believes they own that item, no matter who in game has it, then you still have not broken a law. As by selling it to another player, you are not removing that item from Sony, it is still within the bounds of their control. Still, no law broken. You are still only breaking their rules, not actual laws.
Originally posted by Rammur I wouldn't go around callin it a job neither unless you payin income taxes on it.
That is a good point. If Sony were to prove you did sell it, and then point out to the IRS that you did not claim the income. Then they can nail you for tax evasion. Just like they did to Al Capone!!!
Hehe, I had posted a reply before but I think I might have hit cancel without relising it since it ain't here... lol, but anyways it was basiclly this..... **ADDED** Condensed version at bottom.**
If any of the companies Claimed inttelectual property laws on the game clients then reselling your account would be illegal without permission from the company to specificly resell thier product. Now all software manufacturers regard their softwares code under those laws so hacks and what nots can be charged. But most companies would rather just shut down hacks and rogue accounts simply because it would cost them more in time to prosocute then they could possible get back. Now if your were to GIVE away your license, theres nothing wrong with that. And I'm guessing most companies won't backup the EULA under intellectual property laws (in regards to ingame conduct and selling your license) just because of the potential headaches involved. As for eBaying items, nothing really wrong with that. Your not transfering your license, or any software, so unless the EULA says you can't do it, or their codes of conduct in game forbid it, nothing wrong there. I know it's forbiden in AO but people do it anyways. Whats funny is multiple log ongs from one station is against the rules in the EULA in AO but evryone does that to.. I always used to log my roomates toons on when he wasn;t around for buffs and transfers..
hmmm that was basic or short at all.... ok lets try putting it this way...
IF STATED IN EULA then selling license = Bad, IF NOT STATED IN THE EULA then selling license = not bad, but regardless selling items = not bad.
People have jobs so they can't play as much as they would like.
Other people don't have jobs and so they just spend excess time playing their respective MMORPG.
All you are doing is buying someone's time. It's not like someone has better capabilities to earn equipment over you, it's just that one person doesn't have the time to do it and another does. As the saying goes, time is money.
Comments
To the people who say that ebaying does not effect the quality of the gameplay for all others I want to say that you are blinded by your petty greed. Games should be recreational and not a suorce of income. The minute you start selling items to support yourself, you are not longer playing a game, you are working. Kinda kills the fun don't you think?
A lot of people here think they are making good money on this, but I bet that your are not even making minimum wages unless you live in China.
A few examples of how you are killing the games you exploit to make petty cash:
By farming more rare items than you actually need -camping spots of rare loot, excluding regular players from getting said items.
By selling high level accounts that are used by buyers to further scam and rip off other players untill they become blacklisted.
Giving inexperienced players high lvl accounts that they don't know jack about, that frustrate experienced players, because they get killed because the doc don't know how to heal..ect
Ruining game comunities. Well...Ask anyone that plays L][ how they feel about sweatshop workers that play their game for income and not to take part in the comunity.
The people that buy on Ebay are dumbasses that have too much money, and would prolly also use cheats to get ahead. They fail to see that they are misunderstanding the whole concept of the games they play. The goal is not to "win" a MMO, but to have fun playing it. Also, when skipping the initial game they often miss some of the best and most intertaining content.
All experienced gamers shy Ebayers like the plague and there is a reason for that. They are stealing their time with incompetent play, and the people who sell them their items are facilitating this.
Ebaying is disruptive and most games have rules agains it, so when you Ebay you are breaking the rules and should be banned.
Just because a lot of people are doing it, does not make it right. Dont be a Lemming. No one (that matters) will think you are cool because you made a few bucks on playing computergames, and it certainly wont be anything you can use on a CV or future reference, as a real job would be.
Warcriminal, nothing of what you said is really a reason. If you have the spare money and there is someone who is willing to sell its time/effort for a price both parties find as fair, why not? The buyer might be a noob who has most of his friends already way up ahead in personage experience and wants just to catch up quick to play with them. He might be a busy businesman who has just no time to get there through 1000 deaths and wasted evenings. The reasons can be thousand.
Its all about offer and demand really. Some do spend hard cash on some earings for some chick in the hopes of getting laid that night, others spend it on a ready to play personage in a game they obviously feel greatly attracted to.
Anyone is familiar with the "Magic the Gathering" card game? Recall how much a Black Lotus was worth? or a Beta "Time warp"?
pretty much the same story
Yes...I am well aware that these things are governed by supply and demand, but how excatly does that make it all right?
Are you denying that the reasons I mentioned are valid?
I can tell you that I have experienced every single one of them personally and I felt them greatly disruptive for my game quality and so does every one else that gets ripped off by a Ebayer, excluded from loot, currency or gets their time ruined by teamsmates that don't know how to play the game.
I must agree with everyones replies so far, whether it's positive or negative to buying items from a company auction such as Ebay for a game.
One thing I think was failed to be mentioned is selling or buying items for a game is fun to the gamer doing it. Yes most must obtain a job and make $ in a job they may not always be happy to be in. Most will leave that said job if it becomes to unbarable for them. If a gamer wants to make his/her own business selling items from a game they love to play, to help others obtain that highly sought after item, what is wrong with that? Yes, it may affect others in the game, but those finding rare items by playing the game are also affecting the game. If a player finds an item and wants to make profit by selling to someone who wants the item, I think that helps the community more than hurts it. The seller has already found the item, no other player can obviously find it.
I was subjected to Ebay buying from soliciting bots across Bnet. I had spent a year playing Diablo 2 LOD, with little success on finding elite items that would help me compete in PvP. Though the topic of duplicated or hacked items hasn't really come up in responses, these items exist. When duplicated or hacked items start to appear, this is when I start feeling the game has taken a turn for the worse. Selling a legit item found in a game is fair to me. Selling items that may be duplicated or hacked is not fair to me. Now Diablo 2 LOD was not a MMO, so I must stay on track. I can't honestly say items in a MMO are legit or hacked. Those experienced players on Diablo 2 LOD know some items are hacked, there is no other explaination for why thousands of an item with 1:1 million scarcity exist at a time, with hundreds of said scarce items all appearing in great abundance.
I can say from personal experience that Ebay buying became an obsession for me. I just had to have the best items and use my skills collected to use them and end the lives of fellow PvP who were naked killing others. How else could the game become fair? Start duplicating or hacking items yourself? As most may be thinking now, the answer appeared to me from my empty bank account- STOP PLAYING THE GAME NOW!
In summation- when a game no longer becomes fun, and you start to rely on buying elite or rare items, it is time to STOP PLAYING THE GAME! As many have said, it is more rewarding to find items yourself and play in a server where the game is fair- when this starts to become untrue, STOP PLAYING THE GAME.
---------------------------------------------
Visit me at http://cheerz.low-ping.com/main.asp
Also, selling such things on ebay, if I recall right, is also illegal.
depends on the game, Some will ban you for selling on ebay, and lock out accounts sold on ebay (if they find out). Some don't care. In AO theres a heavy price on eBayers. since alot of players sell the item in game for the equivilant in game cost as the could sell the games currency on eBay, end result, that bad ass hammer I want for my enforcer will cost me 75$ on ebay or 500mill in game...
On the bright side, the low levs who are building thier toons get some high levs to make fun of for a change (ebay'd accounts) including one sucker who thought everyone must know who he was, since the guy he baught his account from told him there were only about 5 or 6 people in the game with MP's that high... It was fun to whatch him mouth off about it, then have about 10-20 stand around him... those were the ones in the area...
It is not ILLEGAL. It is against the rules. Two separate things altogether... Illegal means you are breaking a law. Nothing illegal about it. No law that says I cannot sell something on eBay. If I sell it in game using Platinum it is legal, if I sell it out of game using dollars it is illegal. I don't think so...
If the developer decides you have broken the rules, they can do something about it within their rights, but you still have not broken a law.
No different than if you are in a bar and you break the rules. They ask you to leave and you don't. Then and only then have you broken a law, tresspassing. But by breaking the rules, you did not break a law.
I still say, no harm no foul. Let them sell their stuff. If someone is willing to buy it, then it is for sale. That is a capitalist society.
Are you selling a virtual item that does not actually exist? Or are you selling the time and knowledge spent to acquire that item? Buying something that is virtual and does not actually exist is crazy, but if you are buying the time and knowledge spent, then it makes sense. If that item would take 10 hours of my real life time, then that item is worth $25/hr. x 10 hrs. $250 of my time at work. So, it is up to the individual how much his time is worth.
Personally, I play the game for the enjoyment of having done it, so I have never bought (or sold for that matter) any in game items on eBay.
Wooo, good point Tas, but you have to keep in mind there are laws protecting intellectual property. And the ELUA you agree to allows you the use of there intellectual property. And some games MAY (I've never fully read any of the EULA's so I don;t know if there ARE any) forbid the resaleof your license with out concent from the company. In which case it would become illegal
I'm not saying it IS illegal, I'm pretty sure in most cases it's just breaking the EULA, but in some cases it may be.
I would still argue it. As you have not sold the intellectual property. If the company Sony (for example) believes they own that item, no matter who in game has it, then you still have not broken a law. As by selling it to another player, you are not removing that item from Sony, it is still within the bounds of their control. Still, no law broken. You are still only breaking their rules, not actual laws.
That is a good point. If Sony were to prove you did sell it, and then point out to the IRS that you did not claim the income. Then they can nail you for tax evasion. Just like they did to Al Capone!!!
Hehe, I had posted a reply before but I think I might have hit cancel without relising it since it ain't here... lol, but anyways it was basiclly this..... **ADDED** Condensed version at bottom.**
If any of the companies Claimed inttelectual property laws on the game clients then reselling your account would be illegal without permission from the company to specificly resell thier product. Now all software manufacturers regard their softwares code under those laws so hacks and what nots can be charged. But most companies would rather just shut down hacks and rogue accounts simply because it would cost them more in time to prosocute then they could possible get back. Now if your were to GIVE away your license, theres nothing wrong with that. And I'm guessing most companies won't backup the EULA under intellectual property laws (in regards to ingame conduct and selling your license) just because of the potential headaches involved. As for eBaying items, nothing really wrong with that. Your not transfering your license, or any software, so unless the EULA says you can't do it, or their codes of conduct in game forbid it, nothing wrong there. I know it's forbiden in AO but people do it anyways. Whats funny is multiple log ongs from one station is against the rules in the EULA in AO but evryone does that to.. I always used to log my roomates toons on when he wasn;t around for buffs and transfers..
hmmm that was basic or short at all.... ok lets try putting it this way...
IF STATED IN EULA then selling license = Bad, IF NOT STATED IN THE EULA then selling license = not bad, but regardless selling items = not bad.
oh that was much shorter...
People have jobs so they can't play as much as they would like.
Other people don't have jobs and so they just spend excess time playing their respective MMORPG.
All you are doing is buying someone's time. It's not like someone has better capabilities to earn equipment over you, it's just that one person doesn't have the time to do it and another does. As the saying goes, time is money.