Yes, I agree, we won the war. Bush appeared in a photo op speech on a We quit when Al Maliki, or some other political leader, can transition the Iraqi government into something akin to stability. Once they reach a political agreement, and a majority coalition forms, we can declare victory and move on. Maybe if we kill enough of them, they will pretend to be unified so we will leave. Whatever works.....
n aircraft carrier with a big "Mission Accomplished" banner behind him. We should have got the hell out then, but Bush wouldn't leave. So, we stayed and spiraled downward.
I am not worried about some other country trying to push while we are in Iraq. Let the North Koreans come south, the US has plenty of resources to smack their asses back. May take a bit of time to mobilize, but we have one helluva lot to mobilize. Tojo and Hitler overlooked that.
Columbia, meh, a carrier task force can dominate their airspace, destroy their infrastructure, and bleed them. If, and I say if, we decide to deploy ground troops, we can raise and equip several hundred thousand with a 6 week training program at Fort Benning, or Camp Pendleton. Columbia can't do that.
Look at US troop numbers in Vietnam. We don't have to win, we just have to punish. We don't have to rebuild, we just have to punish. All we have to show is that if someone messes with us they will lose big time. I really don't care if we bomb mosques, civilian air raid shelters, baby formula factories, or whatever. If they don't like our target selection, they shouldn't mess with us.
War is a messy business for a reason, it's so we don't decide to do it often. Make it too neat, to clean, to antiseptic, and it will happen more often. If the average guy on the streets believes he and his family will die if his politicians start a war, guess what, his politicians will not be starting any wars.
Every Iranian has to actually believe that Tehran will get nuked if they step out of line, before they will tell their President to sit down and shut up.
Right now, none of these wog populations believe......
I agree that the time to leave was when Bush declared victory
What exactly are you going to do if North Korea does come south? Mobilize a giant sized fleet to that Mr Kim can nuke it? Explode in front of them until they are sorry? Swap dust clouds over Pyong Yang and New York?
It's over OD, you have lost Korea. North and South will now unify and you will lose your puppet government and part of your logistical train to Taiwan and the China sea. What can you do about it?
He doesn't have to come south, all the Southerners are desperate to go North to him.
If you don't like me example of not being able to deploy decisively in Columbia, how about Afghanistan? You don't have the manpower to hold that place down. Where is your spare carrier group now? Right now. Where is it today?
The Taliban aren't scared of you. You look weak and they are challenging you. You have what? 1/2 a million men in Iraq, but you can't find an extra 10,000 to beat the Taliban.
(P.S. (to bring you up to speed) you are on Columbia's side. It's not their infrastructure you would be bombing, it's Ecuador's, Venezula's and Nicuragua's).
Every Iranian actually believes that American's are too weak in the head to ever nuke Tehran.
They think you are too weak in the head to invade anywhere. They think you are a wannning empire and they a rising one becuase you have lost the will to fight.
That's what every Iranian thinks, and when their president didn't think like that, they told him to sit down and shut up and then replaced him.
Iran looks at us and smells pussy. It looks at our troops in Iraq and it see's the ability to carry out reprisal attacks. It see's easy targets for an undeclared war. Targets in range to threaten with reprisal and targets to kill via proxy without fear of any reprisal.
I wish I shared your faith in what politicians will do if the average guy in the street doesn't want a war.
Might I remind you that the Iraq war was voted against in parliament here, was immensely unpopular with the average guy in the street, sparked the largest public demonstration in the 2,000 year history of the nation and that the politiicans not only went to war anyway, fully against the wishes of their populations, but they all got re-elected again afterwards too.
Originally posted by baff I'm going to shorten this up to conserve space. I agree that the time to leave was when Bush declared victory What exactly are you going to do if North Korea does come south? Mobilize a giant sized fleet to that Mr Kim can nuke it? Explode in front of them until they are sorry? Swap dust clouds over Pyong Yang and New York? It's over OD, you have lost Korea. North and South will now unify and you will lose your puppet government and part of your logistical train to Taiwan and the China sea. What can you do about it? Nuke him first, maybe. Maybe nuke China for not controlling him. Maybe nuke Russia to for good measure. Fear us. We can end all life on earth. He doesn't have to come south, all the Southerners are desperate to go North to him. Yea, I can't figure that one out for the life of me. Don't they know he doesn't have Starcraft? If you don't like me example of not being able to deploy decisively in Columbia, how about Afghanistan? You don't have the manpower to hold that place down. Where is your spare carrier group now? Right now. Where is it today? Afganistan never should have been a problem, and still shouldn't be. If, and I say if, we really had the support of the Saudi, Jordanian, Kuwaiti, and Oman regimes their intelligence services would go in, find Osama, ID his location, and our special forces would drop in and take him out. The Taliban aren't scared of you. You look weak and they are challenging you. You have what? 1/2 a million men in Iraq, but you can't find an extra 10,000 to beat the Taliban. Sometimes I wonder if we really want to win. Or if our government is really making war on our own population by keeping the boogie man hiding under the bed so we will be afraid, be very afraid. The Taliban should not be a problem. Swift Islamic justice is all they need. (P.S. (to bring you up to speed) you are on Columbia's side. It's not their infrastructure you would be bombing, it's Ecuador's, Venezula's and Nicuragua's). Bomb them all (grin), let God sort out which are the good guys. Every Iranian actually believes that American's are too weak in the head to ever nuke Tehran. They think you are too weak in the head to invade anywhere. They think you are a wannning empire and they a rising one becuase you have lost the will to fight. That's what every Iranian thinks, and when their president didn't think like that, they told him to sit down and shut up and then replaced him. Iran looks at us and smells pussy. It looks at our troops in Iraq and it see's the ability to carry out reprisal attacks. It see's easy targets for an undeclared war. Targets in range to threaten with reprisal and targets to kill via proxy without fear of any reprisal. My point exactly too. Respect, and fear, is needed. You don't earn that by contually cutting and running. I wish I shared your faith in what politicians will do if the average guy in the street doesn't want a war. The average American in the street wants what Fox News tells him he wants. All the way up to the point that it hurts. Once it hurts them personally, they start thinking. Might I remind you that the Iraq war was voted against in parliament here, was immensely unpopular with the average guy in the street, sparked the largest public demonstration in the 2,000 year history of the nation and that the politiicans not only went to war anyway, fully against the wishes of their populations, but they all got re-elected again afterwards too. So, your population is not so different than Americans. You must have some propaganda source like Fox News also?
Dude. America went to Iraq to bring peace and sanity and stop the madman Saddam. The country got worse and there was no evidence of W.O.M.D and the soldiers are still there. Face it, many Americans feel smug the fact that their country is #1 super power in the world. Don't give a shit whether they die from a cardiac arrest, or the whole world goes to shits because of carbon emissions or that they can't think of a country beginning with a U.
I always thought it would be easy to attack Iran. Geographically, Iran is the dead center of the current conflicts.
Dude. America went to Iraq to bring peace and sanity and stop the madman Saddam. The country got worse and there was no evidence of W.O.M.D and the soldiers are still there. Face it, many Americans feel smug the fact that their country is #1 super power in the world. Don't give a shit whether they die from a cardiac arrest, or the whole world goes to shits because of carbon emissions or that they can't think of a country beginning with a U.
I always thought it would be easy to attack Iran. Geographically, Iran is the dead center of the current conflicts.
Am i missing something, or has the majority of arguments on this site turned into this standard recipe (esp. the ones created by unconformed)
A) Alice puts forward an argument
Bob disagrees with that argument
C) Alice accuses Bob of being some type of mindless drone
D) Alice believes her argument is more justified because the majority of people DONT follow it
E) Bob tries valently to continue to use logic and reason
F) Alice belives Bob is becoming more and more controlled and more and more mindless
G) Eve wonders WTF is going on. I used to be Bob, but now im Eve. And the more and more i think about it the more i begin to realise that Alice isnt really Alice, but Alice is actually Mallory and even if Bob was Victor or Pat, Mallory would be no more happy or willing to change..
But yes 9/11 was a real wake up call..... a wake up call for every nutjob in the western world.
I would say Eve is the holier than thou who's country didn't lose over 3000 citizens in a terrorist attack so doesn't care. And wants to appear above the fray even though he/she wonders WTF is going on.
As you can see i am far from not caring about terrorist attacks. I am just wise enough to realise that one mans action/reaction is not always the correct way. I am wise enough to question, not to blindly follow.
I thought you were Austrailian?!? Bali is Austrailian? If you want to add terriost attacks outside of the country I have plenty more I can add. And I stand by saying you don't really care but I am not going to go back and post all your past links. And by your definition, they were insurgents, not terrorist. You sit back doing nothing while the US does all the work and takes all the grief. Nice ain't it, up there on your high horse!
Am i missing something, or has the majority of arguments on this site turned into this standard recipe (esp. the ones created by unconformed)
A) Alice puts forward an argument
Bob disagrees with that argument
C) Alice accuses Bob of being some type of mindless drone
D) Alice believes her argument is more justified because the majority of people DONT follow it
E) Bob tries valently to continue to use logic and reason
F) Alice belives Bob is becoming more and more controlled and more and more mindless
G) Eve wonders WTF is going on. I used to be Bob, but now im Eve. And the more and more i think about it the more i begin to realise that Alice isnt really Alice, but Alice is actually Mallory and even if Bob was Victor or Pat, Mallory would be no more happy or willing to change..
But yes 9/11 was a real wake up call..... a wake up call for every nutjob in the western world.
I would say Eve is the holier than thou who's country didn't lose over 3000 citizens in a terrorist attack so doesn't care. And wants to appear above the fray even though he/she wonders WTF is going on.
As you can see i am far from not caring about terrorist attacks. I am just wise enough to realise that one mans action/reaction is not always the correct way. I am wise enough to question, not to blindly follow.
I thought you were Austrailian?!? Bali is Austrailian? If you want to add terriost attacks outside of the country I have plenty more I can add. And I stand by saying you don't really care but I am not going to go back and post all your past links. And by your definition, they were insurgents, not terrorist. You sit back doing nothing while the US does all the work and takes all the grief. Nice ain't it, up there on your high horse!
Meh, our country is just capable of defending ourselves without comprimisng many of our freedoms.
Like the 9/11 attacks though, the attacks in bali specifically targeted Australians.
Also, if you would like, i can scan my letter of acceptance in to the Royal Australian Navy, who are currently running Operation Catalyst and Resolute.
As you can see, i am more than capable of standing up to my beliefs and following through on those beliefs with action.
Be it years of meditative practice, or my resolve to make sure my great country stands as proud as it always has.
So i ask you.... how could i not really care when I am more than willing to put my life on the line.
What have you put on your line apart from you 'keyboard warrior' skills ?
I spent 5 months in Saudi supporting awacs aircraft in the early 80s. Was out on deployment when the Beruit bombing happened. Been all over the world. Was lucky enough to serve under one of the greatest presidents. You were probably not born yet to know about that stuff. I think I have allready done enough time.
Dude. America went to Iraq to bring peace and sanity and stop the madman Saddam. The country got worse and there was no evidence of W.O.M.D and the soldiers are still there. Face it, many Americans feel smug the fact that their country is #1 super power in the world. Don't give a shit whether they die from a cardiac arrest, or the whole world goes to shits because of carbon emissions or that they can't think of a country beginning with a U.
I always thought it would be easy to attack Iran. Geographically, Iran is the dead center of the current conflicts.
Dude. America went to Iraq to bring peace and sanity and stop the madman Saddam. The country got worse and there was no evidence of W.O.M.D and the soldiers are still there. Face it, many Americans feel smug the fact that their country is #1 super power in the world. Don't give a shit whether they die from a cardiac arrest, or the whole world goes to shits because of carbon emissions or that they can't think of a country beginning with a U.
I always thought it would be easy to attack Iran. Geographically, Iran is the dead center of the current conflicts.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Am i missing something, or has the majority of arguments on this site turned into this standard recipe (esp. the ones created by unconformed)
A) Alice puts forward an argument
Bob disagrees with that argument
C) Alice accuses Bob of being some type of mindless drone
D) Alice believes her argument is more justified because the majority of people DONT follow it
E) Bob tries valently to continue to use logic and reason
F) Alice belives Bob is becoming more and more controlled and more and more mindless
G) Eve wonders WTF is going on. I used to be Bob, but now im Eve. And the more and more i think about it the more i begin to realise that Alice isnt really Alice, but Alice is actually Mallory and even if Bob was Victor or Pat, Mallory would be no more happy or willing to change..
But yes 9/11 was a real wake up call..... a wake up call for every nutjob in the western world.
I would say Eve is the holier than thou who's country didn't lose over 3000 citizens in a terrorist attack so doesn't care. And wants to appear above the fray even though he/she wonders WTF is going on.
As you can see i am far from not caring about terrorist attacks. I am just wise enough to realise that one mans action/reaction is not always the correct way. I am wise enough to question, not to blindly follow.
I thought you were Austrailian?!? Bali is Austrailian? If you want to add terriost attacks outside of the country I have plenty more I can add. And I stand by saying you don't really care but I am not going to go back and post all your past links. And by your definition, they were insurgents, not terrorist. You sit back doing nothing while the US does all the work and takes all the grief. Nice ain't it, up there on your high horse!
Meh, our country is just capable of defending ourselves without comprimisng many of our freedoms.
Like the 9/11 attacks though, the attacks in bali specifically targeted Australians.
Also, if you would like, i can scan my letter of acceptance in to the Royal Australian Navy, who are currently running Operation Catalyst and Resolute.
As you can see, i am more than capable of standing up to my beliefs and following through on those beliefs with action.
Be it years of meditative practice, or my resolve to make sure my great country stands as proud as it always has.
So i ask you.... how could i not really care when I am more than willing to put my life on the line.
What have you put on your line apart from you 'keyboard warrior' skills ?
I spent 5 months in Saudi supporting awacs aircraft in the early 80s. Was out on deployment when the Beruit bombing happened. Been all over the world. Was lucky enough to serve under one of the greatest presidents. You were probably not born yet to know about that stuff. I think I have allready done enough time.
So, am i 'worthy' of your support now that i have shown that i am a man of action myself ?
Not that i particularly care, i just found it amusing that you asked a question of me then entirely ignored the answer.
So i ask you once again. How could i not really care when i am more than willing to put my life on the line? Signing up for what will most likely lead to deployment, with full knowledge of where and why i am going to be deployed.
You had the guts to serve active duty..... Do you have the guts to admit that you may be wrong? Or are you just going to pass over the questions yet again and hope no-one notices ?
Im sure you can understand and empathize with the pride it takes to risk ones life for ones country and her allies.
Well, I guess I can hope that you actually do care about the Iraqies and that the US is doing the right thing. Not sure on what you want me to admit I am wrong on. I have read several of your post over the past month or so and it seems you think everything to do with Iraq is wrong. You want me to admit it was wrong to go into Iraq? I think just shooting at our aircraft was an act of war so it is going to be hard to convince me we went in with no justification. And now you are signing up and that makes you right!? Are you actually going to Iraq or just linking your signing up to a couple operations in Iraq? Maybe when you get over there you can give us some inside updates. You will be able to tell us if it was a big lie or, is what the US did justified?
Well, I guess I can hope that you actually do care about the Iraqies and that the US is doing the right thing. Not sure on what you want me to admit I am wrong on. I have read several of your post over the past month or so and it seems you think everything to do with Iraq is wrong. You want me to admit it was wrong to go into Iraq? I think just shooting at our aircraft was an act of war so it is going to be hard to convince me we went in with no justification. And now you are signing up and that makes you right!? Are you actually going to Iraq or just linking your signing up to a couple operations in Iraq? Maybe when you get over there you can give us some inside updates. You will be able to tell us if it was a big lie or, is what the US did justified?
Shooting at foreign aircraft in your airspace is generally not considered an act of war.
WASHINGTON — An exhaustive review of more than 600,000 Iraqi documents that were captured after the 2003 U.S. invasion has found no evidence that Saddam Hussein's regime had any operational links with Osama bin Laden's al Qaida terrorist network.
Well, I guess I can hope that you actually do care about the Iraqies and that the US is doing the right thing. Not sure on what you want me to admit I am wrong on. I have read several of your post over the past month or so and it seems you think everything to do with Iraq is wrong. You want me to admit it was wrong to go into Iraq? I think just shooting at our aircraft was an act of war so it is going to be hard to convince me we went in with no justification. And now you are signing up and that makes you right!? Are you actually going to Iraq or just linking your signing up to a couple operations in Iraq? Maybe when you get over there you can give us some inside updates. You will be able to tell us if it was a big lie or, is what the US did justified?
Shooting at foreign aircraft in your airspace is generally not considered an act of war.
Am i missing something, or has the majority of arguments on this site turned into this standard recipe (esp. the ones created by unconformed)
A) Alice puts forward an argument
Bob disagrees with that argument
C) Alice accuses Bob of being some type of mindless drone
D) Alice believes her argument is more justified because the majority of people DONT follow it
E) Bob tries valently to continue to use logic and reason
F) Alice belives Bob is becoming more and more controlled and more and more mindless
G) Eve wonders WTF is going on. I used to be Bob, but now im Eve. And the more and more i think about it the more i begin to realise that Alice isnt really Alice, but Alice is actually Mallory and even if Bob was Victor or Pat, Mallory would be no more happy or willing to change..
But yes 9/11 was a real wake up call..... a wake up call for every nutjob in the western world.
I would say Eve is the holier than thou who's country didn't lose over 3000 citizens in a terrorist attack so doesn't care. And wants to appear above the fray even though he/she wonders WTF is going on.
As you can see i am far from not caring about terrorist attacks. I am just wise enough to realise that one mans action/reaction is not always the correct way. I am wise enough to question, not to blindly follow.
I thought you were Austrailian?!? Bali is Austrailian? If you want to add terriost attacks outside of the country I have plenty more I can add. And I stand by saying you don't really care but I am not going to go back and post all your past links. And by your definition, they were insurgents, not terrorist. You sit back doing nothing while the US does all the work and takes all the grief. Nice ain't it, up there on your high horse!
Meh, our country is just capable of defending ourselves without comprimisng many of our freedoms.
Like the 9/11 attacks though, the attacks in bali specifically targeted Australians.
Also, if you would like, i can scan my letter of acceptance in to the Royal Australian Navy, who are currently running Operation Catalyst and Resolute.
As you can see, i am more than capable of standing up to my beliefs and following through on those beliefs with action.
Be it years of meditative practice, or my resolve to make sure my great country stands as proud as it always has.
So i ask you.... how could i not really care when I am more than willing to put my life on the line.
What have you put on your line apart from you 'keyboard warrior' skills ?
I spent 5 months in Saudi supporting awacs aircraft in the early 80s. Was out on deployment when the Beruit bombing happened. Been all over the world. Was lucky enough to serve under one of the greatest presidents. You were probably not born yet to know about that stuff. I think I have allready done enough time.
So, am i 'worthy' of your support now that i have shown that i am a man of action myself ?
Not that i particularly care, i just found it amusing that you asked a question of me then entirely ignored the answer.
So i ask you once again. How could i not really care when i am more than willing to put my life on the line? Signing up for what will most likely lead to deployment, with full knowledge of where and why i am going to be deployed.
You had the guts to serve active duty..... Do you have the guts to admit that you may be wrong? Or are you just going to pass over the questions yet again and hope no-one notices ?
Im sure you can understand and empathize with the pride it takes to risk ones life for ones country and her allies.
Well, I guess I can hope that you actually do care about the Iraqies and that the US is doing the right thing. Not sure on what you want me to admit I am wrong on. I have read several of your post over the past month or so and it seems you think everything to do with Iraq is wrong. You want me to admit it was wrong to go into Iraq? I think just shooting at our aircraft was an act of war so it is going to be hard to convince me we went in with no justification. And now you are signing up and that makes you right!? Are you actually going to Iraq or just linking your signing up to a couple operations in Iraq? Maybe when you get over there you can give us some inside updates. You will be able to tell us if it was a big lie or, is what the US did justified?
You were wrong and off base in your comment that i am not doing something about it. I am signing up to help us get out of Iraq as soon as is humanly possible (Not 'cutting and running' but making sure the Iraqis get the infastructure that was destroyed. So no, i wasnt saying that i was right because i signed up, i was saying that you were wrong in saying im not going to do something... when i am atually doing a hell of a lot more than you are.
As for not going to Iraq. The job i have been accepted for (Combat Systems Operator) means i will be stationed on a frigate. Operation Catalyst requires at least one of these types of ships stationed in the Gulf at any particular stage. Since we have only 12 of these ships, and the average deployment is 6months and the RSO on my job is 6 years, logic would dictate that it is all but inevitable (assuming the war, and australias support continues which is out of my hands anyway). This is something i had full knowledge of prior to enlistment. I will, while i wait, be actively protecting the borders of my nation.
Also, your comprehension musnt be to good if you think that i have said every reason we went into Iraq was wrong. The ONLY thing i have a problem with is the focuson WMDs in Iraq, thats it. I believe Saddam was such a bad dictator that it should have been done in 91, but thats neither here nor there.
I believe the Iraqi people deserve more and i believe any withdrawal at this stage would be of detrement to the Iraqi people, the ones we are suppose to be helping. This is something i have made clear on numerous occasions. This seems to be yet another thing you have gotten wrong, this one isnt even an assumption though. This is just your ignorance to what i have written.
So, are you going to give us you unbiased opinion of what is going on in Iraq?!?????
Well, I guess I can hope that you actually do care about the Iraqies and that the US is doing the right thing. Not sure on what you want me to admit I am wrong on. I have read several of your post over the past month or so and it seems you think everything to do with Iraq is wrong. You want me to admit it was wrong to go into Iraq? I think just shooting at our aircraft was an act of war so it is going to be hard to convince me we went in with no justification. And now you are signing up and that makes you right!? Are you actually going to Iraq or just linking your signing up to a couple operations in Iraq? Maybe when you get over there you can give us some inside updates. You will be able to tell us if it was a big lie or, is what the US did justified?
Shooting at foreign aircraft in your airspace is generally not considered an act of war.
Check the UN sanctions! The us has been the only ones enforcing the un sanctions as far as I can tell.
There was no UN resolution that supported the right for any countries aircraft to invade Iraqi airspace.
The UN sanctions that actually existed were aimed at makeing Saddam stop his WMD program, something we now know he was in full compliance with which makes enforcing trade sanctions hhighly suspect.
There's no way to kill a terrorist organization. Partly because terrorist organizations don't really exist.
You can always round them up and kill them.
I used to live in Peru - there was a serious terror issue there. The government didn't hide behind a fear of being politically reprimanded, and went after the terrorists the old fashioned way.
Goodbye Shining Path. I don't know why people seem to think that the Iraq war hasn't killed any terrorists... Then again, I grew up overseas; and therefore have a different perspective.
There's a massive difference between terrorism and geurilla warfare. The latter is still warfare and might be successfully combated (tho the Americans proved otherwise in Vietnam) with conventional arms.
Wrong we were winning. See what made us pull out was the tet offensive which really didnt do too much for us and it cost the veticong huge. The democrats just dont have balls(carter is a great example its why the hostages were released becuase they knew Regan would come kick their ass and not just talk about it)
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
There's no way to kill a terrorist organization. Partly because terrorist organizations don't really exist.
You can always round them up and kill them.
I used to live in Peru - there was a serious terror issue there. The government didn't hide behind a fear of being politically reprimanded, and went after the terrorists the old fashioned way.
Goodbye Shining Path. I don't know why people seem to think that the Iraq war hasn't killed any terrorists... Then again, I grew up overseas; and therefore have a different perspective.
There's a massive difference between terrorism and geurilla warfare. The latter is still warfare and might be successfully combated (tho the Americans proved otherwise in Vietnam) with conventional arms.
Wrong we were winning. See what made us pull out was the tet offensive which really didnt do too much for us and it cost the veticong huge. The democrats just dont have balls(carter is a great example its why the hostages were released becuase they knew Regan would come kick their ass and not just talk about it)
It doesn't matter what offensive did the trick. The US lost. What you're saying is like saying "The Nazi's were winning World War two, but it was Operation Overlord that did the trick". (not that I'm saying the US is like Nazi-Germany, it's just a known example of a lost war).
Yes, I agree, we won the war. Bush appeared in a photo op speech on a We quit when Al Maliki, or some other political leader, can transition the Iraqi government into something akin to stability. Once they reach a political agreement, and a majority coalition forms, we can declare victory and move on. Maybe if we kill enough of them, they will pretend to be unified so we will leave. Whatever works.....
n aircraft carrier with a big "Mission Accomplished" banner behind him. We should have got the hell out then, but Bush wouldn't leave. So, we stayed and spiraled downward.
I am not worried about some other country trying to push while we are in Iraq. Let the North Koreans come south, the US has plenty of resources to smack their asses back. May take a bit of time to mobilize, but we have one helluva lot to mobilize. Tojo and Hitler overlooked that.
Columbia, meh, a carrier task force can dominate their airspace, destroy their infrastructure, and bleed them. If, and I say if, we decide to deploy ground troops, we can raise and equip several hundred thousand with a 6 week training program at Fort Benning, or Camp Pendleton. Columbia can't do that.
Look at US troop numbers in Vietnam. We don't have to win, we just have to punish. We don't have to rebuild, we just have to punish. All we have to show is that if someone messes with us they will lose big time. I really don't care if we bomb mosques, civilian air raid shelters, baby formula factories, or whatever. If they don't like our target selection, they shouldn't mess with us.
War is a messy business for a reason, it's so we don't decide to do it often. Make it too neat, to clean, to antiseptic, and it will happen more often. If the average guy on the streets believes he and his family will die if his politicians start a war, guess what, his politicians will not be starting any wars.
Every Iranian has to actually believe that Tehran will get nuked if they step out of line, before they will tell their President to sit down and shut up.
Right now, none of these wog populations believe......
I agree that the time to leave was when Bush declared victory
What exactly are you going to do if North Korea does come south? Mobilize a giant sized fleet to that Mr Kim can nuke it? Explode in front of them until they are sorry? Swap dust clouds over Pyong Yang and New York?
It's over OD, you have lost Korea. North and South will now unify and you will lose your puppet government and part of your logistical train to Taiwan and the China sea. What can you do about it?
He doesn't have to come south, all the Southerners are desperate to go North to him.
If you don't like me example of not being able to deploy decisively in Columbia, how about Afghanistan? You don't have the manpower to hold that place down. Where is your spare carrier group now? Right now. Where is it today?
The Taliban aren't scared of you. You look weak and they are challenging you. You have what? 1/2 a million men in Iraq, but you can't find an extra 10,000 to beat the Taliban.
(P.S. (to bring you up to speed) you are on Columbia's side. It's not their infrastructure you would be bombing, it's Ecuador's, Venezula's and Nicuragua's).
Every Iranian actually believes that American's are too weak in the head to ever nuke Tehran.
They think you are too weak in the head to invade anywhere. They think you are a wannning empire and they a rising one becuase you have lost the will to fight.
That's what every Iranian thinks, and when their president didn't think like that, they told him to sit down and shut up and then replaced him.
Iran looks at us and smells pussy. It looks at our troops in Iraq and it see's the ability to carry out reprisal attacks. It see's easy targets for an undeclared war. Targets in range to threaten with reprisal and targets to kill via proxy without fear of any reprisal.
I wish I shared your faith in what politicians will do if the average guy in the street doesn't want a war.
Might I remind you that the Iraq war was voted against in parliament here, was immensely unpopular with the average guy in the street, sparked the largest public demonstration in the 2,000 year history of the nation and that the politiicans not only went to war anyway, fully against the wishes of their populations, but they all got re-elected again afterwards too.
Interesting about the S korea comment, wonder how they will feel about there pastors being run over with steamrollers in the street and being unable to have any contact with the outside world? And all the unburied dead from starvation. And the poor North Koreans whose only hope is the US freeing them wow what a disappointment for them.
Afterall you cant expect Kim Jong to just step down after he has reunified the country. But i suppose its better than being nuked. Or a general nuclear war, guess i will just have to drink a toast to them and there fall to communism. Maybe il right a song...
I agree that the time to leave was when Bush declared victory
What exactly are you going to do if North Korea does come south? Mobilize a giant sized fleet to that Mr Kim can nuke it? Explode in front of them until they are sorry? Swap dust clouds over Pyong Yang and New York? It's over OD, you have lost Korea. North and South will now unify and you will lose your puppet government and part of your logistical train to Taiwan and the China sea. What can you do about it? He doesn't have to come south, all the Southerners are desperate to go North to him. You seriously wrote that? In what context are one of the worlds wealthiest most technologically advanced people desperate to go north to one of the worlds poorest most oppressed and primitive? www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/east/02/11/skorea.attitudes.otsc/ www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2792.htm www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2800.htm
More and more South Koreans -- particularly the younger generation -- do not see North Korea as an enemy anymore. They see them as a kind of wayward relative who needs to be gently brought back into the fold.
As a result, it is inconceivable to many South Koreans that North Korea would actually attack. And much of the criticism that you hear on the streets in South Korea is directed at the Bush administration for its policy toward North Korea.
If you don't like me example of not being able to deploy decisively in Columbia, how about Afghanistan? You don't have the manpower to hold that place down. Where is your spare carrier group now? Right now. Where is it today? The Taliban aren't scared of you. You look weak and they are challenging you. You have what? 1/2 a million men in Iraq, but you can't find an extra 10,000 to beat the Taliban. There are approx 150,000 US troops in Iraq. This is public info anyone could find with a simple search. www.armytimes.com/news/2007/02/TNScbosurge070201/ Afghanistan is also a NATO action. That means you Mr UK, Canada, Germanyand everyone else topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/afghanistan/index.html www.nato-pa.int/Default.asp
Every Iranian actually believes that American's are too weak in the head to ever nuke Tehran. They think you are too weak in the head to invade anywhere. They think you are a wannning empire and they a rising one becuase you have lost the will to fight. That's what every Iranian thinks, and when their president didn't think like that, they told him to sit down and shut up and then replaced him. Iran looks at us and smells pussy. It looks at our troops in Iraq and it see's the ability to carry out reprisal attacks. It see's easy targets for an undeclared war. Targets in range to threaten with reprisal and targets to kill via proxy without fear of any reprisal. Hmmm...no, the average Iranian is not interested in war, nuclear weapons, or terrorism at all. I would imagine no one is interested in having their cities bombed no matter who "wins" or "looses". You are an expert on Iranian public opinion of other countries? You should be working for or advising your government not posting on game forums. www.antiwar.com/lobe/
I wish I shared your faith in what politicians will do if the average guy in the street doesn't want a war. Might I remind you that the Iraq war was voted against in parliament here, was immensely unpopular with the average guy in the street, sparked the largest public demonstration in the 2,000 year history of the nation and that the politiicans not only went to war anyway, fully against the wishes of their populations, but they all got re-elected again afterwards too. Such are the benefits of a free society. In other places the people would have been brutally supressed and possibly killed. They were re-elcted by who??? Mysterious men in black? No....the people, the same people who exersized their right to demonstrate against them. The war obviously wasn't a primary motivating force in the elections. news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080316/ap_on_re_as/china_tibet article.wn.com/view/2008/03/15/Protests_turn_violent_in_Tibet_g/
You guys really need to start doing some research before you start shooting crap from your arses. The internet is a wonderful tool and you CAN find just about anything you like on it.
Its as easy as typing in a phrase.
EDIT
The main NATO HQ at Afghanistan is located in the capital city of Kabul. There are five (5) Regional Command Centers, underneath them are the Provincial Reconstruction Teams:
Combined Task Force Aegis (March 2006 to August 2006)
CTF Aegis was a multinational task force led by Canada in southeast Afghanistan. Contributing nations include the United Kingdom, the Netherlands (contributing Task Force Uruzgan), Estonia and the United States. TF Aegis was also known as Multinational Brigade - Regional Command South or MNB RC South. In August 2006, CTF Aegis transferred to the control of ISAF. Task Force Aegis included, as of May 2006[8]:
HQ in Bagram, Commander, CJTF-82, Maj. Gen. David Rodriguez.
Two rotating U.S. infantry brigade combat teams; currently Task Force Bayonet (primarily composed of 173rd ABCTparatroopers) and Task Force Fury (primarily composed of 4th BCT, 82nd Airborne paratroopers).
PRT PANJSHIR in Panjshir province (USA) (Previously PRT PARWAN (USA)
WARSAW, Jan 9 (Reuters) - Poland has reached a preliminary agreement with NATO partners on expanding its role in Afghanistan by taking over command of an eastern province, Poland's defence minister said. So at the moment Poland is NOT leading a PRT, also not according to the official website of the NATO-ISAF.
I really don't see much progress in this thread. Just look at the ground being fought over. Just what are we arguing? Not that I didn't read through an exhilerating dozen or so pages, but the clear and present argument was lost at about page 7.
The ultimate solution to every problem: more space marines.
Id like to thank everyone in this thread for finally agreeing with me. me and GW Bush will not lead you astray. we will take you exactly where we need to be for the goodness of america and the free world. do not fear this 'new world order', embrace it for it is the only way to ensure the existence of our race of humanity. dont be short sighted, it can be too emotional which will yield bad results in the long run.
Id also like to thank veterans of WW2 for providing me with this forum to express myself. remember, long term thinking is for the best.
????? = thank you in japanese (edit- cant seem to get text)
Id like to thank everyone in this thread for finally agreeing with me. me and GW Bush will not lead you astray. we will take you exactly where we need to be for the goodness of america and the free world. do not fear this 'new world order', embrace it for it is the only way to ensure the existence of our race of humanity. dont be short sighted, it can be too emotional which will yield bad results in the long run. Id also like to thank veterans of WW2 for providing me with this forum to express myself. remember, long term thinking is for the best. ????? = thank you in japanese (edit- cant seem to get text) danke= thank you in german Have a great day all!
Good news, you have been nominated for a Darwin award.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open. Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
As always, MadAce resorts to insulting the other side rather than making a convincing argument. I can pretty much guarantee my income and intelligence is greater than MadAce's, so I won't even touch on his argument...
What makes no sense to me is this idea that we should succumb to the attacks of bloodthirsty thugs. They resort to violence against hardworking, common people, and we are expected to lay down our arms. These folks would be ruling the world if everyone thought like MadAce.
As always, MadAce resorts to insulting the other side rather than making a convincing argument. I can pretty much guarantee my income and intelligence is greater than MadAce's, so I won't even touch on his argument...
What makes no sense to me is this idea that we should succumb to the attacks of bloodthirsty thugs. They resort to violence against hardworking, common people, and we are expected to lay down our arms. These folks would be ruling the world if everyone thought like MadAce.
You said it would be easy to attack Iran. Unless you're planning on the US military becoming the global thugs I'd say any kind of invasion (let alone occupation) would be military, economic and political suicide.
Even a "simple" persistent attack would still be the latter two and would be surprisingly detrimental military-wise.
Your assessment about Iran being at the center of the destructive dynamic in the middle-east is also very mistaken, but understandable considering Fox "news".
Oh and don't pretend those are "your arms" because you wouldn't do the fighting, now would you? You'd be far too busy earning more money and being more intelligent than the average soldier to ever let your precious self come into harms way.
Comments
n aircraft carrier with a big "Mission Accomplished" banner behind him. We should have got the hell out then, but Bush wouldn't leave. So, we stayed and spiraled downward.
I am not worried about some other country trying to push while we are in Iraq. Let the North Koreans come south, the US has plenty of resources to smack their asses back. May take a bit of time to mobilize, but we have one helluva lot to mobilize. Tojo and Hitler overlooked that.
Columbia, meh, a carrier task force can dominate their airspace, destroy their infrastructure, and bleed them. If, and I say if, we decide to deploy ground troops, we can raise and equip several hundred thousand with a 6 week training program at Fort Benning, or Camp Pendleton. Columbia can't do that.
Look at US troop numbers in Vietnam. We don't have to win, we just have to punish. We don't have to rebuild, we just have to punish. All we have to show is that if someone messes with us they will lose big time. I really don't care if we bomb mosques, civilian air raid shelters, baby formula factories, or whatever. If they don't like our target selection, they shouldn't mess with us.
War is a messy business for a reason, it's so we don't decide to do it often. Make it too neat, to clean, to antiseptic, and it will happen more often. If the average guy on the streets believes he and his family will die if his politicians start a war, guess what, his politicians will not be starting any wars.
Every Iranian has to actually believe that Tehran will get nuked if they step out of line, before they will tell their President to sit down and shut up.
Right now, none of these wog populations believe......
I agree that the time to leave was when Bush declared victory
What exactly are you going to do if North Korea does come south? Mobilize a giant sized fleet to that Mr Kim can nuke it? Explode in front of them until they are sorry? Swap dust clouds over Pyong Yang and New York?
It's over OD, you have lost Korea. North and South will now unify and you will lose your puppet government and part of your logistical train to Taiwan and the China sea. What can you do about it?
He doesn't have to come south, all the Southerners are desperate to go North to him.
If you don't like me example of not being able to deploy decisively in Columbia, how about Afghanistan? You don't have the manpower to hold that place down. Where is your spare carrier group now? Right now. Where is it today?
The Taliban aren't scared of you. You look weak and they are challenging you. You have what? 1/2 a million men in Iraq, but you can't find an extra 10,000 to beat the Taliban.
(P.S. (to bring you up to speed) you are on Columbia's side. It's not their infrastructure you would be bombing, it's Ecuador's, Venezula's and Nicuragua's).
Every Iranian actually believes that American's are too weak in the head to ever nuke Tehran.
They think you are too weak in the head to invade anywhere. They think you are a wannning empire and they a rising one becuase you have lost the will to fight.
That's what every Iranian thinks, and when their president didn't think like that, they told him to sit down and shut up and then replaced him.
Iran looks at us and smells pussy. It looks at our troops in Iraq and it see's the ability to carry out reprisal attacks. It see's easy targets for an undeclared war. Targets in range to threaten with reprisal and targets to kill via proxy without fear of any reprisal.
I wish I shared your faith in what politicians will do if the average guy in the street doesn't want a war.
Might I remind you that the Iraq war was voted against in parliament here, was immensely unpopular with the average guy in the street, sparked the largest public demonstration in the 2,000 year history of the nation and that the politiicans not only went to war anyway, fully against the wishes of their populations, but they all got re-elected again afterwards too.
I always thought it would be easy to attack Iran. Geographically, Iran is the dead center of the current conflicts.
Thank GOD you're not in charge.
Sadly enough someone equally ***** ******* ** ** ******* ****** ** ****** ***** ***** * ** ** ******** is in charge.
Curiously, I keep thinking that about you too.
I always thought it would be easy to attack Iran. Geographically, Iran is the dead center of the current conflicts.
Thank GOD you're not in charge.
Sadly enough someone equally ***** ******* ** ** ******* ****** ** ****** ***** ***** * ** ** ******** is in charge.
Curiously, I keep thinking that about you too.
What's the relevance of that statement?
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I would say Eve is the holier than thou who's country didn't lose over 3000 citizens in a terrorist attack so doesn't care. And wants to appear above the fray even though he/she wonders WTF is going on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Bali_bombings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Australian_embassy_bombing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Bali_bombings
As you can see i am far from not caring about terrorist attacks. I am just wise enough to realise that one mans action/reaction is not always the correct way. I am wise enough to question, not to blindly follow.
I thought you were Austrailian?!? Bali is Austrailian? If you want to add terriost attacks outside of the country I have plenty more I can add. And I stand by saying you don't really care but I am not going to go back and post all your past links. And by your definition, they were insurgents, not terrorist. You sit back doing nothing while the US does all the work and takes all the grief. Nice ain't it, up there on your high horse!
I would say Eve is the holier than thou who's country didn't lose over 3000 citizens in a terrorist attack so doesn't care. And wants to appear above the fray even though he/she wonders WTF is going on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Bali_bombings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Australian_embassy_bombing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Bali_bombings
As you can see i am far from not caring about terrorist attacks. I am just wise enough to realise that one mans action/reaction is not always the correct way. I am wise enough to question, not to blindly follow.
I thought you were Austrailian?!? Bali is Austrailian? If you want to add terriost attacks outside of the country I have plenty more I can add. And I stand by saying you don't really care but I am not going to go back and post all your past links. And by your definition, they were insurgents, not terrorist. You sit back doing nothing while the US does all the work and takes all the grief. Nice ain't it, up there on your high horse!
Meh, our country is just capable of defending ourselves without comprimisng many of our freedoms.Like the 9/11 attacks though, the attacks in bali specifically targeted Australians.
Also, if you would like, i can scan my letter of acceptance in to the Royal Australian Navy, who are currently running Operation Catalyst and Resolute.
As you can see, i am more than capable of standing up to my beliefs and following through on those beliefs with action.
Be it years of meditative practice, or my resolve to make sure my great country stands as proud as it always has.
So i ask you.... how could i not really care when I am more than willing to put my life on the line.
What have you put on your line apart from you 'keyboard warrior' skills ?
I spent 5 months in Saudi supporting awacs aircraft in the early 80s. Was out on deployment when the Beruit bombing happened. Been all over the world. Was lucky enough to serve under one of the greatest presidents. You were probably not born yet to know about that stuff. I think I have allready done enough time.
I always thought it would be easy to attack Iran. Geographically, Iran is the dead center of the current conflicts.
Thank GOD you're not in charge.
Sadly enough someone equally ***** ******* ** ** ******* ****** ** ****** ***** ***** * ** ** ******** is in charge.
Curiously, I keep thinking that about you too.
What's the relevance of that statement?
Same relevance as yours.. Thank GOD your not in charge!
I always thought it would be easy to attack Iran. Geographically, Iran is the dead center of the current conflicts.
Thank GOD you're not in charge.
Sadly enough someone equally ***** ******* ** ** ******* ****** ** ****** ***** ***** * ** ** ******** is in charge.
Curiously, I keep thinking that about you too.
What's the relevance of that statement?
Same relevance as yours.. Thank GOD your not in charge!
Contrary to your statement my statement had general importance, while yours was, what? A flamebait or something?
I was also so kind as to include other interesting stuff in my post.
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Coward.
Troll Alert !
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
I would say Eve is the holier than thou who's country didn't lose over 3000 citizens in a terrorist attack so doesn't care. And wants to appear above the fray even though he/she wonders WTF is going on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Bali_bombings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Australian_embassy_bombing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Bali_bombings
As you can see i am far from not caring about terrorist attacks. I am just wise enough to realise that one mans action/reaction is not always the correct way. I am wise enough to question, not to blindly follow.
I thought you were Austrailian?!? Bali is Austrailian? If you want to add terriost attacks outside of the country I have plenty more I can add. And I stand by saying you don't really care but I am not going to go back and post all your past links. And by your definition, they were insurgents, not terrorist. You sit back doing nothing while the US does all the work and takes all the grief. Nice ain't it, up there on your high horse!
Meh, our country is just capable of defending ourselves without comprimisng many of our freedoms.Like the 9/11 attacks though, the attacks in bali specifically targeted Australians.
Also, if you would like, i can scan my letter of acceptance in to the Royal Australian Navy, who are currently running Operation Catalyst and Resolute.
As you can see, i am more than capable of standing up to my beliefs and following through on those beliefs with action.
Be it years of meditative practice, or my resolve to make sure my great country stands as proud as it always has.
So i ask you.... how could i not really care when I am more than willing to put my life on the line.
What have you put on your line apart from you 'keyboard warrior' skills ?
I spent 5 months in Saudi supporting awacs aircraft in the early 80s. Was out on deployment when the Beruit bombing happened. Been all over the world. Was lucky enough to serve under one of the greatest presidents. You were probably not born yet to know about that stuff. I think I have allready done enough time.
So, am i 'worthy' of your support now that i have shown that i am a man of action myself ?Not that i particularly care, i just found it amusing that you asked a question of me then entirely ignored the answer.
So i ask you once again. How could i not really care when i am more than willing to put my life on the line? Signing up for what will most likely lead to deployment, with full knowledge of where and why i am going to be deployed.
You had the guts to serve active duty..... Do you have the guts to admit that you may be wrong? Or are you just going to pass over the questions yet again and hope no-one notices ?
Im sure you can understand and empathize with the pride it takes to risk ones life for ones country and her allies.
Well, I guess I can hope that you actually do care about the Iraqies and that the US is doing the right thing. Not sure on what you want me to admit I am wrong on. I have read several of your post over the past month or so and it seems you think everything to do with Iraq is wrong. You want me to admit it was wrong to go into Iraq? I think just shooting at our aircraft was an act of war so it is going to be hard to convince me we went in with no justification. And now you are signing up and that makes you right!? Are you actually going to Iraq or just linking your signing up to a couple operations in Iraq? Maybe when you get over there you can give us some inside updates. You will be able to tell us if it was a big lie or, is what the US did justified?
Shooting at foreign aircraft in your airspace is generally not considered an act of war.
Also
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/29959.html
Shooting at foreign aircraft in your airspace is generally not considered an act of war.
Also
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/29959.html
Check the UN sanctions! The us has been the only ones enforcing the un sanctions as far as I can tell.
I would say Eve is the holier than thou who's country didn't lose over 3000 citizens in a terrorist attack so doesn't care. And wants to appear above the fray even though he/she wonders WTF is going on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Bali_bombings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Australian_embassy_bombing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Bali_bombings
As you can see i am far from not caring about terrorist attacks. I am just wise enough to realise that one mans action/reaction is not always the correct way. I am wise enough to question, not to blindly follow.
I thought you were Austrailian?!? Bali is Austrailian? If you want to add terriost attacks outside of the country I have plenty more I can add. And I stand by saying you don't really care but I am not going to go back and post all your past links. And by your definition, they were insurgents, not terrorist. You sit back doing nothing while the US does all the work and takes all the grief. Nice ain't it, up there on your high horse!
Meh, our country is just capable of defending ourselves without comprimisng many of our freedoms.Like the 9/11 attacks though, the attacks in bali specifically targeted Australians.
Also, if you would like, i can scan my letter of acceptance in to the Royal Australian Navy, who are currently running Operation Catalyst and Resolute.
As you can see, i am more than capable of standing up to my beliefs and following through on those beliefs with action.
Be it years of meditative practice, or my resolve to make sure my great country stands as proud as it always has.
So i ask you.... how could i not really care when I am more than willing to put my life on the line.
What have you put on your line apart from you 'keyboard warrior' skills ?
I spent 5 months in Saudi supporting awacs aircraft in the early 80s. Was out on deployment when the Beruit bombing happened. Been all over the world. Was lucky enough to serve under one of the greatest presidents. You were probably not born yet to know about that stuff. I think I have allready done enough time.
So, am i 'worthy' of your support now that i have shown that i am a man of action myself ?Not that i particularly care, i just found it amusing that you asked a question of me then entirely ignored the answer.
So i ask you once again. How could i not really care when i am more than willing to put my life on the line? Signing up for what will most likely lead to deployment, with full knowledge of where and why i am going to be deployed.
You had the guts to serve active duty..... Do you have the guts to admit that you may be wrong? Or are you just going to pass over the questions yet again and hope no-one notices ?
Im sure you can understand and empathize with the pride it takes to risk ones life for ones country and her allies.
Well, I guess I can hope that you actually do care about the Iraqies and that the US is doing the right thing. Not sure on what you want me to admit I am wrong on. I have read several of your post over the past month or so and it seems you think everything to do with Iraq is wrong. You want me to admit it was wrong to go into Iraq? I think just shooting at our aircraft was an act of war so it is going to be hard to convince me we went in with no justification. And now you are signing up and that makes you right!? Are you actually going to Iraq or just linking your signing up to a couple operations in Iraq? Maybe when you get over there you can give us some inside updates. You will be able to tell us if it was a big lie or, is what the US did justified?
You were wrong and off base in your comment that i am not doing something about it. I am signing up to help us get out of Iraq as soon as is humanly possible (Not 'cutting and running' but making sure the Iraqis get the infastructure that was destroyed. So no, i wasnt saying that i was right because i signed up, i was saying that you were wrong in saying im not going to do something... when i am atually doing a hell of a lot more than you are.
As for not going to Iraq. The job i have been accepted for (Combat Systems Operator) means i will be stationed on a frigate. Operation Catalyst requires at least one of these types of ships stationed in the Gulf at any particular stage. Since we have only 12 of these ships, and the average deployment is 6months and the RSO on my job is 6 years, logic would dictate that it is all but inevitable (assuming the war, and australias support continues which is out of my hands anyway). This is something i had full knowledge of prior to enlistment. I will, while i wait, be actively protecting the borders of my nation.
Also, your comprehension musnt be to good if you think that i have said every reason we went into Iraq was wrong. The ONLY thing i have a problem with is the focuson WMDs in Iraq, thats it. I believe Saddam was such a bad dictator that it should have been done in 91, but thats neither here nor there.
I believe the Iraqi people deserve more and i believe any withdrawal at this stage would be of detrement to the Iraqi people, the ones we are suppose to be helping. This is something i have made clear on numerous occasions. This seems to be yet another thing you have gotten wrong, this one isnt even an assumption though. This is just your ignorance to what i have written.
So, are you going to give us you unbiased opinion of what is going on in Iraq?!?????
Shooting at foreign aircraft in your airspace is generally not considered an act of war.
Also
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/29959.html
Check the UN sanctions! The us has been the only ones enforcing the un sanctions as far as I can tell.
There was no UN resolution that supported the right for any countries aircraft to invade Iraqi airspace.
The UN sanctions that actually existed were aimed at makeing Saddam stop his WMD program, something we now know he was in full compliance with which makes enforcing trade sanctions hhighly suspect.
Thank god I love in Europe, America sucks
I used to live in Peru - there was a serious terror issue there. The government didn't hide behind a fear of being politically reprimanded, and went after the terrorists the old fashioned way.
Goodbye Shining Path. I don't know why people seem to think that the Iraq war hasn't killed any terrorists... Then again, I grew up overseas; and therefore have a different perspective.
There's a massive difference between terrorism and geurilla warfare. The latter is still warfare and might be successfully combated (tho the Americans proved otherwise in Vietnam) with conventional arms.
Wrong we were winning. See what made us pull out was the tet offensive which really didnt do too much for us and it cost the veticong huge. The democrats just dont have balls(carter is a great example its why the hostages were released becuase they knew Regan would come kick their ass and not just talk about it)
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
So you love in europe but where do you live?
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
I used to live in Peru - there was a serious terror issue there. The government didn't hide behind a fear of being politically reprimanded, and went after the terrorists the old fashioned way.
Goodbye Shining Path. I don't know why people seem to think that the Iraq war hasn't killed any terrorists... Then again, I grew up overseas; and therefore have a different perspective.
There's a massive difference between terrorism and geurilla warfare. The latter is still warfare and might be successfully combated (tho the Americans proved otherwise in Vietnam) with conventional arms.
Wrong we were winning. See what made us pull out was the tet offensive which really didnt do too much for us and it cost the veticong huge. The democrats just dont have balls(carter is a great example its why the hostages were released becuase they knew Regan would come kick their ass and not just talk about it)
It doesn't matter what offensive did the trick. The US lost. What you're saying is like saying "The Nazi's were winning World War two, but it was Operation Overlord that did the trick". (not that I'm saying the US is like Nazi-Germany, it's just a known example of a lost war).
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n aircraft carrier with a big "Mission Accomplished" banner behind him. We should have got the hell out then, but Bush wouldn't leave. So, we stayed and spiraled downward.
I am not worried about some other country trying to push while we are in Iraq. Let the North Koreans come south, the US has plenty of resources to smack their asses back. May take a bit of time to mobilize, but we have one helluva lot to mobilize. Tojo and Hitler overlooked that.
Columbia, meh, a carrier task force can dominate their airspace, destroy their infrastructure, and bleed them. If, and I say if, we decide to deploy ground troops, we can raise and equip several hundred thousand with a 6 week training program at Fort Benning, or Camp Pendleton. Columbia can't do that.
Look at US troop numbers in Vietnam. We don't have to win, we just have to punish. We don't have to rebuild, we just have to punish. All we have to show is that if someone messes with us they will lose big time. I really don't care if we bomb mosques, civilian air raid shelters, baby formula factories, or whatever. If they don't like our target selection, they shouldn't mess with us.
War is a messy business for a reason, it's so we don't decide to do it often. Make it too neat, to clean, to antiseptic, and it will happen more often. If the average guy on the streets believes he and his family will die if his politicians start a war, guess what, his politicians will not be starting any wars.
Every Iranian has to actually believe that Tehran will get nuked if they step out of line, before they will tell their President to sit down and shut up.
Right now, none of these wog populations believe......
I agree that the time to leave was when Bush declared victory
What exactly are you going to do if North Korea does come south? Mobilize a giant sized fleet to that Mr Kim can nuke it? Explode in front of them until they are sorry? Swap dust clouds over Pyong Yang and New York?
It's over OD, you have lost Korea. North and South will now unify and you will lose your puppet government and part of your logistical train to Taiwan and the China sea. What can you do about it?
He doesn't have to come south, all the Southerners are desperate to go North to him.
If you don't like me example of not being able to deploy decisively in Columbia, how about Afghanistan? You don't have the manpower to hold that place down. Where is your spare carrier group now? Right now. Where is it today?
The Taliban aren't scared of you. You look weak and they are challenging you. You have what? 1/2 a million men in Iraq, but you can't find an extra 10,000 to beat the Taliban.
(P.S. (to bring you up to speed) you are on Columbia's side. It's not their infrastructure you would be bombing, it's Ecuador's, Venezula's and Nicuragua's).
Every Iranian actually believes that American's are too weak in the head to ever nuke Tehran.
They think you are too weak in the head to invade anywhere. They think you are a wannning empire and they a rising one becuase you have lost the will to fight.
That's what every Iranian thinks, and when their president didn't think like that, they told him to sit down and shut up and then replaced him.
Iran looks at us and smells pussy. It looks at our troops in Iraq and it see's the ability to carry out reprisal attacks. It see's easy targets for an undeclared war. Targets in range to threaten with reprisal and targets to kill via proxy without fear of any reprisal.
I wish I shared your faith in what politicians will do if the average guy in the street doesn't want a war.
Might I remind you that the Iraq war was voted against in parliament here, was immensely unpopular with the average guy in the street, sparked the largest public demonstration in the 2,000 year history of the nation and that the politiicans not only went to war anyway, fully against the wishes of their populations, but they all got re-elected again afterwards too.
Interesting about the S korea comment, wonder how they will feel about there pastors being run over with steamrollers in the street and being unable to have any contact with the outside world? And all the unburied dead from starvation. And the poor North Koreans whose only hope is the US freeing them wow what a disappointment for them.
Afterall you cant expect Kim Jong to just step down after he has reunified the country. But i suppose its better than being nuked. Or a general nuclear war, guess i will just have to drink a toast to them and there fall to communism. Maybe il right a song...
You guys really need to start doing some research before you start shooting crap from your arses. The internet is a wonderful tool and you CAN find just about anything you like on it.
Its as easy as typing in a phrase.
EDIT
The main NATO HQ at Afghanistan is located in the capital city of Kabul. There are five (5) Regional Command Centers, underneath them are the Provincial Reconstruction Teams:
Dutch F-16 Fighting Falcon at Kabul Airport.
The Norwegian base, inside Camp Marmal.
Construction of Camp Marmal at Mazar-i-Sharif.
CTF Aegis was a multinational task force led by Canada in southeast Afghanistan. Contributing nations include the United Kingdom, the Netherlands (contributing Task Force Uruzgan), Estonia and the United States. TF Aegis was also known as Multinational Brigade - Regional Command South or MNB RC South. In August 2006, CTF Aegis transferred to the control of ISAF. Task Force Aegis included, as of May 2006[8]:
WARSAW, Jan 9 (Reuters) - Poland has reached a preliminary agreement with NATO partners on expanding its role in Afghanistan by taking over command of an eastern province, Poland's defence minister said. So at the moment Poland is NOT leading a PRT, also not according to the official website of the NATO-ISAF.
I really don't see much progress in this thread. Just look at the ground being fought over. Just what are we arguing? Not that I didn't read through an exhilerating dozen or so pages, but the clear and present argument was lost at about page 7.
The ultimate solution to every problem: more space marines.
Id like to thank everyone in this thread for finally agreeing with me. me and GW Bush will not lead you astray. we will take you exactly where we need to be for the goodness of america and the free world. do not fear this 'new world order', embrace it for it is the only way to ensure the existence of our race of humanity. dont be short sighted, it can be too emotional which will yield bad results in the long run.
Id also like to thank veterans of WW2 for providing me with this forum to express myself. remember, long term thinking is for the best.
danke= thank you in german
Have a great day all!
chips, dips chains & whips.
Good news, you have been nominated for a Darwin award.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open.
Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
What makes no sense to me is this idea that we should succumb to the attacks of bloodthirsty thugs. They resort to violence against hardworking, common people, and we are expected to lay down our arms. These folks would be ruling the world if everyone thought like MadAce.
As always, MadAce resorts to insulting the other side rather than making a convincing argument. I can pretty much guarantee my income and intelligence is greater than MadAce's, so I won't even touch on his argument...What makes no sense to me is this idea that we should succumb to the attacks of bloodthirsty thugs. They resort to violence against hardworking, common people, and we are expected to lay down our arms. These folks would be ruling the world if everyone thought like MadAce.
You said it would be easy to attack Iran. Unless you're planning on the US military becoming the global thugs I'd say any kind of invasion (let alone occupation) would be military, economic and political suicide.
Even a "simple" persistent attack would still be the latter two and would be surprisingly detrimental military-wise.
Your assessment about Iran being at the center of the destructive dynamic in the middle-east is also very mistaken, but understandable considering Fox "news".
Oh and don't pretend those are "your arms" because you wouldn't do the fighting, now would you? You'd be far too busy earning more money and being more intelligent than the average soldier to ever let your precious self come into harms way.
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