The easiest way to make sense of all of this is to just lay off the fanboy power and to just relax, and accept this as some kind of alternet timeline/universe.
The problem is that big fans of the series, want to see and interact with people and things from it. They want to be Jedi, they want Boba Fett's armor and Jet Pack, they'd like to use a YT-1300 to fly around in. Also they want the chance to see and talk to characters from the Star Wars setting. They want their Dark Jedi to be buddy-buddy with the Emperor and Darth Vader, they want their smuggler to go to Han Solo for quests, and so on. Hell they even want to fight HK-47... which is one hell of streatch.
But to give everyone what they want, they have to change things around. It doesn't match the lore, it doesn't make sense, but it makes people happy. This thread is a sign why probably Star Trek Online was canned... when you base a game off of such a popular setting that some people live or die by, When it isn't just right, people bitch.
I wouldn't have a problem with Jedi if they went with the original system...
1. Unlocking the Jedi slot is mysterious, and impossible
2. Jedi can be attacked by anybody if they do any "Jedi stuff"
3. Perma death
4. Vader kills you
Playing:World of Warcraft. Played:Lord of the Rings Online, Starwars Galaxies. Tried:Starwars the Old Republic, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Aion.
Wow, lol you say i'm not a fan? I brought up some good points, and you reply with i'm not a fan? Sounds like to me you were one of those people to lazy to do the jedi grind and are bitter cause you never had one and now that everyone can be one it's just not cool anymore.
If the game was so perfect at the beginning why did they change it? Why were subs dropping before the cu, long before the nge. Could wookies join the empire in the beginning? yes, which goes completely against lore. Just a example.
Nothing else to say except that i'm not a fan? I'm still playing the game today, are you? Or are you one of those who played 4 years ago and still wish for days of old? Lol, you say it was fine at launch but jedi ruined the lore lol. It's wrong to wanna play luke but 1000 boba fett wannabe's is totally ok? I brought up a few lore problems but your stuck on the jedi.
Wow, lol you say i'm not a fan? I brought up some good points, and you reply with i'm not a fan? Sounds like to me you were one of those people to lazy to do the jedi grind and are bitter cause you never had one and now that everyone can be one it's just not cool anymore. If the game was so perfect at the beginning why did they change it? Why were subs dropping before the cu, long before the nge. Could wookies join the empire in the beginning? yes, which goes completely against lore. Just a example. Nothing else to say except that i'm not a fan? I'm still playing the game today, are you? Or are you one of those who played 4 years ago and still wish for days of old? Lol, you say it was fine at launch but jedi ruined the lore lol. It's wrong to wanna play luke but 1000 boba fett wannabe's is totally ok? I brought up a few lore problems but your stuck on the jedi.
I'll agree with you on that, adding mando and BH armour was dumb. They needed some diversity in armour skins but really... hundreds of Fett wannabe's really is stupid, but still it pales in comparrison to Jedi. Just imagine a new player coming into the game anytime from 2004 onwards, buy the box, look at the cool screenies on the back, read the massive user guide... get excited to be able to load in and do anything from surveying resources, crafting rifles, skinning dead critters, dropping harvestors, taking missions for your chosen faction whether it's running a package from A to B or clearing an enemy camp,... .then install the game, load in and see a dozen Jedi duelling outside Theed Starport. /facepalm
Can't counter an argument with a valid discussion point? Fishermage(aka Fisherprice) recommends you cut and paste: ad hominem
"You will come to the conclusion that the only people crazier than the managers who thought this a good idea are those who put up with it and pay for it." - Salvaje (who paid to play the NGE for 18 months) /golfclap
I had a long respone written out, but thankfully before I hit "Post Message" I realized how foolish this thread is. Here's hoping it gets buried soon. Appears to me to be several people arguing about things we all pretty much agree about, which makes the arguing part pointless.
SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005 Now Playing: World of Warcrack Forum Terrorist
Ok i can see that, but imagine someone like me, who comes to the game and sees rebels just out in the open, killing stormtroopers, when the should be underground, secretive mostly in imp controlled city, not planet control and all that, lore wise i'm saying. Tat, outer planets i can see, main planets, no. Or wookie, trando, mal cam, joining the empire. But if they didn't do that the game would be boring. i'm just not seeing the issue with jedi like you guys i guess.
Like i said there are so many lore issues yet jedi seems to be the whole problem, i'm sorry i just don't see it, to me it's just as silly as the other stuff i have mentioned.
Ok i can see that, but imagine someone like me, who comes to the game and sees rebels just out in the open, killing stormtroopers, when the should be underground, secretive mostly in imp controlled city, not planet control and all that, lore wise i'm saying. Tat, outer planets i can see, main planets, no. Or wookie, trando, mal cam, joining the empire. But if they didn't do that the game would be boring. i'm just not seeing the issue with jedi like you guys i guess. Like i said there are so many lore issues yet jedi seems to be the whole problem, i'm sorry i just don't see it, to me it's just as silly as the other stuff i have mentioned.
I was a squad leader and musican, and never ever had any needs to be a friking jedi, i could be a jedi in all the other outcast games, i was happy to not be one for once in my life.
Jedis were the downfall of this game and always will been had jedi non exseistend this game could have outbeat wow , but no SOE needed to have an overpowering class that overpowers everything and is selfsustainable and does not need to group, wich is the groundbasics of any mmo.
This game was about the calactic cival war and not about friking JEDI! all babys want to be jedis! cuz thats the only thing thay ever heard of, and thay got what thay wanted RIGTH now!
Playing:World of Warcraft. Played:Lord of the Rings Online, Starwars Galaxies. Tried:Starwars the Old Republic, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Aion.
Ok i can see that, but imagine someone like me, who comes to the game and sees rebels just out in the open, killing stormtroopers, when the should be underground, secretive mostly in imp controlled city, not planet control and all that, lore wise i'm saying. Tat, outer planets i can see, main planets, no. Or wookie, trando, mal cam, joining the empire. But if they didn't do that the game would be boring. i'm just not seeing the issue with jedi like you guys i guess. Like i said there are so many lore issues yet jedi seems to be the whole problem, i'm sorry i just don't see it, to me it's just as silly as the other stuff i have mentioned.
I was a squad leader and musican, and never ever had any needs to be a friking jedi, i could be a jedi in all the other outcast games, i was happy to not be one for once in my life.
Jedis were the downfall of this game and always will been had jedi non exseistend this game could have outbeat wow , but no SOE needed to have an overpowering class that overpowers everything and is selfsustainable and does not need to group, wich is the groundbasics of any mmo.
This game was about the calactic cival war and not about friking JEDI! all babys want to be jedis! cuz thats the only thing thay ever heard of, and thay got what thay wanted RIGTH now!
ok i understand now, it's all jedi's fault, blah blah blah, silly me, i thought maybe it was the lack of content, bug issues.Maybe you should have tried to play jedi back then, was alot harder than you think, when you had everyone under the sun crying and whining about how you were ruining the game for them cause you had a lightsaber and couldn't kill you with one shot.
As far as beating wow, swg never stood a chance, wow was easy to play, cartoony, perfect for a younger audience, swg would have had to do ALOT more than getting rid of jedi to beat wow.
If the game was, as you say about the galactic civil war, again i raise the lore question, shouldn't rebels have been in hiding, not in theed DUEling each other in front of stormtroopers? Shouldn't it have been extremely hard to be a rebel?
ok i understand now, it's all jedi's fault, blah blah blah, silly me, i thought maybe it was the lack of content, bug issues.Maybe you should have tried to play jedi back then, was alot harder than you think, when you had everyone under the sun crying and whining about how you were ruining the game for them cause you had a lightsaber and couldn't kill you with one shot. As far as beating wow, swg never stood a chance, wow was easy to play, cartoony, perfect for a younger audience, swg would have had to do ALOT more than getting rid of jedi to beat wow. If the game was, as you say about the galactic civil war, again i raise the lore question, shouldn't rebels have been in hiding, not in theed DUEling each other in front of stormtroopers? Shouldn't it have been extremely hard to be a rebel?
It's impossible to argue with him man. His entire forum existence is to spread the Jedi-Should-Not-Have-Been-In-The-Star-Wars-Universe-Ever-I-Only-Want-To-Be-Uncle-Owen Gospel. I personally agree that letting people play a class that they obviously want to if they are playing a Star Wars game irrelevant to the problems of SWG. SOE chose a very hard time period to make a Star Wars game. With all the dedicated fans who know the lore of those movies like a bible, it makes it hard to give the Dev's creative room without being attacked by every minute falsity they include. (i.e. LOTRO)
Ok i can see that, but imagine someone like me, who comes to the game and sees rebels just out in the open, killing stormtroopers, when the should be underground, secretive mostly in imp controlled city, not planet control and all that, lore wise i'm saying. Tat, outer planets i can see, main planets, no. Or wookie, trando, mal cam, joining the empire. But if they didn't do that the game would be boring. i'm just not seeing the issue with jedi like you guys i guess. Like i said there are so many lore issues yet jedi seems to be the whole problem, i'm sorry i just don't see it, to me it's just as silly as the other stuff i have mentioned.
I was a squad leader and musican, and never ever had any needs to be a friking jedi, i could be a jedi in all the other outcast games, i was happy to not be one for once in my life.
Jedis were the downfall of this game and always will been had jedi non exseistend this game could have outbeat wow , but no SOE needed to have an overpowering class that overpowers everything and is selfsustainable and does not need to group, wich is the groundbasics of any mmo.
This game was about the calactic cival war and not about friking JEDI! all babys want to be jedis! cuz thats the only thing thay ever heard of, and thay got what thay wanted RIGTH now!
ok i understand now, it's all jedi's fault, blah blah blah, silly me, i thought maybe it was the lack of content, bug issues.Maybe you should have tried to play jedi back then, was alot harder than you think, when you had everyone under the sun crying and whining about how you were ruining the game for them cause you had a lightsaber and couldn't kill you with one shot.
As far as beating wow, swg never stood a chance, wow was easy to play, cartoony, perfect for a younger audience, swg would have had to do ALOT more than getting rid of jedi to beat wow.
If the game was, as you say about the galactic civil war, again i raise the lore question, shouldn't rebels have been in hiding, not in theed DUEling each other in front of stormtroopers? Shouldn't it have been extremely hard to be a rebel?
Well you're right about bugs and content, bugs and content were never addressed fully though because the devs were too busy cooking up ways to ease the Jedi grind, all the way through the game right up until the NGE this was the case, first the holo grind, then the village and all the balancing & re-balancing of one class, I'm willing to bet it took up a huge chunk of dev time, probably enough to have a heap of content and eradicate a whole lot of bugs, but they were too busy chasing the mystical 1million + subscriber figure and thought they could get there by making Jedi an attainable goal for more than just no-lifers and exploiters. So yeah, maybe, just maybe you'd have seen more realism within the game if so much dev time hadn't been taken up by just one of the proffs.
Can't counter an argument with a valid discussion point? Fishermage(aka Fisherprice) recommends you cut and paste: ad hominem
"You will come to the conclusion that the only people crazier than the managers who thought this a good idea are those who put up with it and pay for it." - Salvaje (who paid to play the NGE for 18 months) /golfclap
Everyone likes to blame Jedi, but I think how Jedi were pushed in the game and made the center of attention was a symptom of deeper problems.
One was that Jedi were playable because ever since the prequels came out, Jedi = Star Wars. This wasn't the case nearly to the extent it's been since Ep I showed up. Heck, my aspiration when SW first came out was to wear stormie armor, not to wave a lightsaber around.
The idea of SWG is the players are the extras. For first gen SW fans, that means being TK 325 or one of the other pilots in the cantina, not being Luke. For fans of the prequels, it means swinging a lightsaber about.
So, LA pushed Jedi, and nearly every move toward make unlocking the slot easier, and to make the life of a Jedi less dangerous, was driven by the sales team wanting to sell more units because they thought that the need to be Jedi was the key to success. Look at the NGE: InstaJedi from the getgo. For those of us who had already worn the paddy robes before the NGE, it frankly wasn't that big a deal, but for those who had not unlocked, it was a dream come true.
Quite aside from the gameplay issues, Jedi were part of the downfall because they were seen by LA marketing as the magic bullet that would break all those records for MMOs. Never mind that the game itself had serious problems quite apart from tossing Jedi into the mix...it was released prematurely. The combat system wasn't fully vetted at the high end, and furthermore the interplay between elite crafters and elite combat hadn't been properly playtested. Furthermore, it was lacking a lot of tools it needed to be a successful sandbox game which it was intended to be, and the directed content was thin when it was intended to be much richer than it was, and this shows in game itself. All those POIs, those bunkers, those caves, each one with a story to tell, but no story present. Just go in an slaughter NPCs/critters. Never mind that they were based on lore that wasn't presented in game. WoW goes out of its way to fill in the gaps of lore with books in libraries and so forth. Real love for the lore there that SWG neglected in its headlong rush to get that ROI right this second.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
I was a squad leader and musican, and never ever had any needs to be a friking jedi, i could be a jedi in all the other outcast games, i was happy to not be one for once in my life.
Jedis were the downfall of this game and always will been had jedi non exseistend this game could have outbeat wow , but no SOE needed to have an overpowering class that overpowers everything and is selfsustainable and does not need to group, wich is the groundbasics of any mmo. This game was about the calactic cival war and not about friking JEDI! all babys want to be jedis! cuz thats the only thing thay ever heard of, and thay got what thay wanted RIGTH now!
Poor attempt at trying to look like the 'mature' player.
No one can seriously say outloud 'I was a squad leader and musician in a science fiction game' then call everyone else 'babies'. If you think it gives you prestige, I challenge you to either, walk boldly into your boss' office and proclaim it or on your next date, let that be the conversation starter. We'll see how much respect you get for your mature adherence to the SWG lore.
You cannot play 'make-believe' and then condemn everyone elses 'pretend persona' to be immature.
"My squad leader was great, he would help us destroy our enemies and then break into song" - that doesn't sound like a mature representation imo in any way. Sounds like what they did in the Batman TV series. Defeat the bad guy and then go-go dance. You have some nerve talking about 'babies'.
Don't get me wrong, the lore of SWG is completely borked, I just don't see it as an issue of 'maturity'.
Why do people cry so much about jedi? i didn't see 100's of bh's running around in the movies, i didn't see people running around in armor and weapons in front of stormtroopers. There is way more problems now and has always been besides jedi. Honestly, how many people do you think would have gotten the game if they didn't think they could become or play a jedi?
You didn't get to see day-to-day life in any of the Star Wars movies, would have been one hell of a boring series if you did wouldn't it. It was left to your imagination for the most part, Jedi however, we know for a fact didn't duel by the dozen outside Theed Starport. Big difference.
I just have to say one thing, it's a GAME, people bought SWG in the first place because it promised them they could play jedi's, no one bought SWG so they can find a bunch of nerds and role-play nerf herders.
1 thing sold SWG, lightsabers.
CU and NGE didn't kill SWG, WoW did, people heard how amazing and fun it was and flocked to it like flies to shit, like the masses always do when they hear of something bigger and better.
the ONLY game WITHOUT jedi's that I think would sell decent, is a Star Wars FPS game, not some cheesy Third person shooter, but a good first person one, maybe done by COD 1,2 and 4's developers. not that battlefront bullshit.
SWG was ALOT of fun without Jedi up until around March 2004 when Guardians started showing up, but even then when you first saw a player Jedi you would go "OH WOW!". There were tons of things to do without being a Jedi back then, the economy was probably the best thing and I loved going to other player cities and shopping for bargains.
Continuity is the dumbest concept for any MMORPG. If your seeking continuity just watch the movies. It belongs no where in a MMORPG.
Let them be Jedi. If they like being another one of the masses its their bizness. The CU was no different. Took a few months of grinding to get a Jedi, they were running around everywhere about like it is now, except now you have a "Jedi" at low level but that Jedi isn't capable of much until he's 90, therefore you see many more of them, it seems. This is what happens when you base a game off a movie everyone wants to play the hero so you have 100s of "heroes" running around the game but they're more sheep for the slaughter.
In the CU they ran rampant, worse than now because they ran about unchecked unless there was a BH who knew what they were doing. Now they have to be careful about dueling while overt because other classes than just a BH can ruin their little duel. They can't act as supreme and 1337 as they used to, though some still try to, and a few actually are really tuff in PvP, but 7 out of every 10 "Jedi" can be taken out.
The real problem as I see it is people do not understand what an MMORPG is. Every player in the game besides you is transitory. This means that they may be there "exist" and they may not. They may choose to no longer play the game, have wife aggro issues, fail to pay for their account, etc. The number of player jedi can never be something that matters because sometimes there will be a few and other times there may be many. Consider the game as your personal story and you will see that the other players are nice to have and socialize with but the fact that they are not persistant and cannot be counted upon to exist means that they are somewhat irrelevant. They may enhance gameplay but what they are cannot count against or towards the story and canon.
Another thing folks within SWG seem to ignore is the fact that there were not a great number of Mandolarian armor wearing bounty hunters and commandos according to the lore. This seems to be ok with them. I am all for the great numbers because I adhere to the logic described within the first paragraph but if you do not then any game can become "difficult" to stomach in time.
The real problem as I see it is people do not understand what an MMORPG is. Every player in the game besides you is transitory. This means that they may be there "exist" and they may not. They may choose to no longer play the game, have wife aggro issues, fail to pay for their account, etc. The number of player jedi can never be something that matters because sometimes there will be a few and other times there may be many. Consider the game as your personal story and you will see that the other players are nice to have and socialize with but the fact that they are not persistant and cannot be counted upon to exist means that they are somewhat irrelevant. They may enhance gameplay but what they are cannot count against or towards the story and canon. Another thing folks within SWG seem to ignore is the fact that there were not a great number of Mandolarian armor wearing bounty hunters and commandos according to the lore. This seems to be ok with them. I am all for the great numbers because I adhere to the logic described within the first paragraph but if you do not then any game can become "difficult" to stomach in time.
You can attempt to justify the over abundant existance of Jedi in SWG if you want but, to me, Lucas has already established that there is only 1 Jedi alive after the events of Episode 4 -- Yoda. That's it. There was no secret cult of Jedi hiding out in their thongs and sunglasses waiting for the day they could come fight in the GCW. In fact, the ONLY Jedi who fought in the GCW was Luke. All other Jedi were killed before the events of Ep 4 took place. You can say, well there may have been others on other planets or whatever suits your fancy to justify the existance of Jedi in SWG but we all know it's BS. If they had planned to introduce Jedi in the game as a playable class then they should have set the timeline for the game in such a period where it would make sense to see hundreds of people running around with glowbats. To set the game in the period after Ep. 4 and then allow all these people to run around, without consequence, as a Jedi, is just absurd and smacks in the face of everything we know of Star Wars.
In the time of Pre-CU when Jedi were less prominent and couldn't stay in public sight without being hunted, I believe it was more acceptable. To have the ability to play Jedi at the start is ludicrous. As many have said Yoda is the last remaining Jedi once Obi-Wan passed, there was no one to pass down traditions of Jedi to random people out and about. Another hidden Jedi or Force Sensitive tribe? Ok maybe, but a galaxy full of them? No. The problem with SWG is that no one is transitory, its a true galaxy that lives like a true one would. Player driven economy, politics, technology, and story(thanks to all the broken/unfinished quests). It was an MMO built on the foundation of community existence.
Those of you who want less Jedi in the game, rejoice! Something other than the continuing subscriber losses will soon reduce the Jedi population drastically:
PS: I've spoken to Valara about the negativity in these threads. I respond to positive threads. If I get quiet, it's probably because you've driven me off. Please try to keep this thread positive, so I can continue talking to you. If you do not like something, put a positive spin on it by suggesting something else in its place (that's reasonable) instead of tearing me apart.
What a little bitch. That's the least professional thing I've ever seen any game representative say. This person belongs in a plastic bubble to protect his impossibly thin skin from damage.
If you can't accept the fact that you've ruined a viable product and that there are very accurate negative things to say about your product, just quit now and get a job without any responsibility or any chance for negative feedback. THIS is how SWG died, management failed to get rid of these man babies from the company.
Umm Manbaby,? Valara is a woman moskowitz Ive actually seen pics of her during fanfest and a recent summit check the forums main SWG forums for a recent summit that took place at least 2 weeks ago posted by a melvader...
Why do people cry so much about jedi? i didn't see 100's of bh's running around in the movies, i didn't see people running around in armor and weapons in front of stormtroopers. There is way more problems now and has always been besides jedi. Honestly, how many people do you think would have gotten the game if they didn't think they could become or play a jedi?
You didn't get to see day-to-day life in any of the Star Wars movies, would have been one hell of a boring series if you did wouldn't it. It was left to your imagination for the most part, Jedi however, we know for a fact didn't duel by the dozen outside Theed Starport. Big difference.
I just have to say one thing, it's a GAME, people bought SWG in the first place because it promised them they could play jedi's, no one bought SWG so they can find a bunch of nerds and role-play nerf herders.
1 thing sold SWG, lightsabers.
CU and NGE didn't kill SWG, WoW did, people heard how amazing and fun it was and flocked to it like flies to shit, like the masses always do when they hear of something bigger and better.
the ONLY game WITHOUT jedi's that I think would sell decent, is a Star Wars FPS game, not some cheesy Third person shooter, but a good first person one, maybe done by COD 1,2 and 4's developers. not that battlefront bullshit.
Believe it or not, not all Star Wars fans are "nerds" that want to "roleplay nerf herders", I can't stand RP'ing, hate it with a passion in fact, didn't like crafting, didn't like the social aspect but I love Star Wars, I grew up with it and you know what.... there's millions more like me all over the world, for your idea to be right, as soon as the first SWG Jedi promo went online the servers should have been full of Star Wars fans, and yet they never were. Yes it's a game, a game that carries the Star Wars brand and that means that there's millions of fans that couldn't give a shit about RP, about crafting, about socialising, about how overpowered X class is, they would have been more than happy to buy into a piece of the Star Wars universe and that means: GCW = No Jedi.
Star Wars fans should have been the target audience, not mmo players and certainly not a sub 20yr old bitch, whinge and cry kiddie section like they aimed at with the NGE. Star Wars fans number in their millions, none of the others do, and sorry but if you screw with the canon, you're screwing the fans.
Can't counter an argument with a valid discussion point? Fishermage(aka Fisherprice) recommends you cut and paste: ad hominem
"You will come to the conclusion that the only people crazier than the managers who thought this a good idea are those who put up with it and pay for it." - Salvaje (who paid to play the NGE for 18 months) /golfclap
Star Wars fans should have been the target audience, not mmo players and certainly not a sub 20yr old bitch, whinge and cry kiddie section like they aimed at with the NGE. Star Wars fans number in their millions, none of the others do, and sorry but if you screw with the canon, you're screwing the fans.
May explain why reception of the prequels was less than fully enthusiastic amongst some of the fans.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Comments
The easiest way to make sense of all of this is to just lay off the fanboy power and to just relax, and accept this as some kind of alternet timeline/universe.
The problem is that big fans of the series, want to see and interact with people and things from it. They want to be Jedi, they want Boba Fett's armor and Jet Pack, they'd like to use a YT-1300 to fly around in. Also they want the chance to see and talk to characters from the Star Wars setting. They want their Dark Jedi to be buddy-buddy with the Emperor and Darth Vader, they want their smuggler to go to Han Solo for quests, and so on. Hell they even want to fight HK-47... which is one hell of streatch.
But to give everyone what they want, they have to change things around. It doesn't match the lore, it doesn't make sense, but it makes people happy. This thread is a sign why probably Star Trek Online was canned... when you base a game off of such a popular setting that some people live or die by, When it isn't just right, people bitch.
Yeah, instead we had kung-fu masters kicking the crap out of guys with guns.
Real lore-friendly.
____________________________________________
im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
1. Unlocking the Jedi slot is mysterious, and impossible
2. Jedi can be attacked by anybody if they do any "Jedi stuff"
3. Perma death
4. Vader kills you
Playing: World of Warcraft.
Played: Lord of the Rings Online, Starwars Galaxies.
Tried: Starwars the Old Republic, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Aion.
Wow, lol you say i'm not a fan? I brought up some good points, and you reply with i'm not a fan? Sounds like to me you were one of those people to lazy to do the jedi grind and are bitter cause you never had one and now that everyone can be one it's just not cool anymore.
If the game was so perfect at the beginning why did they change it? Why were subs dropping before the cu, long before the nge. Could wookies join the empire in the beginning? yes, which goes completely against lore. Just a example.
Nothing else to say except that i'm not a fan? I'm still playing the game today, are you? Or are you one of those who played 4 years ago and still wish for days of old? Lol, you say it was fine at launch but jedi ruined the lore lol. It's wrong to wanna play luke but 1000 boba fett wannabe's is totally ok? I brought up a few lore problems but your stuck on the jedi.
I'll agree with you on that, adding mando and BH armour was dumb. They needed some diversity in armour skins but really... hundreds of Fett wannabe's really is stupid, but still it pales in comparrison to Jedi. Just imagine a new player coming into the game anytime from 2004 onwards, buy the box, look at the cool screenies on the back, read the massive user guide... get excited to be able to load in and do anything from surveying resources, crafting rifles, skinning dead critters, dropping harvestors, taking missions for your chosen faction whether it's running a package from A to B or clearing an enemy camp,... .then install the game, load in and see a dozen Jedi duelling outside Theed Starport. /facepalm
Can't counter an argument with a valid discussion point? Fishermage(aka Fisherprice) recommends you cut and paste: ad hominem
"You will come to the conclusion that the only people crazier than the managers who thought this a good idea are those who put up with it and pay for it." - Salvaje (who paid to play the NGE for 18 months) /golfclap
I had a long respone written out, but thankfully before I hit "Post Message" I realized how foolish this thread is. Here's hoping it gets buried soon. Appears to me to be several people arguing about things we all pretty much agree about, which makes the arguing part pointless.
SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server
NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005
Now Playing: World of Warcrack
Forum Terrorist
Ok i can see that, but imagine someone like me, who comes to the game and sees rebels just out in the open, killing stormtroopers, when the should be underground, secretive mostly in imp controlled city, not planet control and all that, lore wise i'm saying. Tat, outer planets i can see, main planets, no. Or wookie, trando, mal cam, joining the empire. But if they didn't do that the game would be boring. i'm just not seeing the issue with jedi like you guys i guess.
Like i said there are so many lore issues yet jedi seems to be the whole problem, i'm sorry i just don't see it, to me it's just as silly as the other stuff i have mentioned.
I was a squad leader and musican, and never ever had any needs to be a friking jedi, i could be a jedi in all the other outcast games, i was happy to not be one for once in my life.
Jedis were the downfall of this game and always will been had jedi non exseistend this game could have outbeat wow , but no SOE needed to have an overpowering class that overpowers everything and is selfsustainable and does not need to group, wich is the groundbasics of any mmo.
This game was about the calactic cival war and not about friking JEDI! all babys want to be jedis! cuz thats the only thing thay ever heard of, and thay got what thay wanted RIGTH now!
Playing: World of Warcraft.
Played: Lord of the Rings Online, Starwars Galaxies.
Tried: Starwars the Old Republic, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Aion.
Mine too...lends shoulder
I was a squad leader and musican, and never ever had any needs to be a friking jedi, i could be a jedi in all the other outcast games, i was happy to not be one for once in my life.
Jedis were the downfall of this game and always will been had jedi non exseistend this game could have outbeat wow , but no SOE needed to have an overpowering class that overpowers everything and is selfsustainable and does not need to group, wich is the groundbasics of any mmo.
This game was about the calactic cival war and not about friking JEDI! all babys want to be jedis! cuz thats the only thing thay ever heard of, and thay got what thay wanted RIGTH now!
ok i understand now, it's all jedi's fault, blah blah blah, silly me, i thought maybe it was the lack of content, bug issues.Maybe you should have tried to play jedi back then, was alot harder than you think, when you had everyone under the sun crying and whining about how you were ruining the game for them cause you had a lightsaber and couldn't kill you with one shot.As far as beating wow, swg never stood a chance, wow was easy to play, cartoony, perfect for a younger audience, swg would have had to do ALOT more than getting rid of jedi to beat wow.
If the game was, as you say about the galactic civil war, again i raise the lore question, shouldn't rebels have been in hiding, not in theed DUEling each other in front of stormtroopers? Shouldn't it have been extremely hard to be a rebel?
It's impossible to argue with him man. His entire forum existence is to spread the Jedi-Should-Not-Have-Been-In-The-Star-Wars-Universe-Ever-I-Only-Want-To-Be-Uncle-Owen Gospel.
I personally agree that letting people play a class that they obviously want to if they are playing a Star Wars game irrelevant to the problems of SWG. SOE chose a very hard time period to make a Star Wars game. With all the dedicated fans who know the lore of those movies like a bible, it makes it hard to give the Dev's creative room without being attacked by every minute falsity they include. (i.e. LOTRO)
I was a squad leader and musican, and never ever had any needs to be a friking jedi, i could be a jedi in all the other outcast games, i was happy to not be one for once in my life.
Jedis were the downfall of this game and always will been had jedi non exseistend this game could have outbeat wow , but no SOE needed to have an overpowering class that overpowers everything and is selfsustainable and does not need to group, wich is the groundbasics of any mmo.
This game was about the calactic cival war and not about friking JEDI! all babys want to be jedis! cuz thats the only thing thay ever heard of, and thay got what thay wanted RIGTH now!
ok i understand now, it's all jedi's fault, blah blah blah, silly me, i thought maybe it was the lack of content, bug issues.Maybe you should have tried to play jedi back then, was alot harder than you think, when you had everyone under the sun crying and whining about how you were ruining the game for them cause you had a lightsaber and couldn't kill you with one shot.As far as beating wow, swg never stood a chance, wow was easy to play, cartoony, perfect for a younger audience, swg would have had to do ALOT more than getting rid of jedi to beat wow.
If the game was, as you say about the galactic civil war, again i raise the lore question, shouldn't rebels have been in hiding, not in theed DUEling each other in front of stormtroopers? Shouldn't it have been extremely hard to be a rebel?
Well you're right about bugs and content, bugs and content were never addressed fully though because the devs were too busy cooking up ways to ease the Jedi grind, all the way through the game right up until the NGE this was the case, first the holo grind, then the village and all the balancing & re-balancing of one class, I'm willing to bet it took up a huge chunk of dev time, probably enough to have a heap of content and eradicate a whole lot of bugs, but they were too busy chasing the mystical 1million + subscriber figure and thought they could get there by making Jedi an attainable goal for more than just no-lifers and exploiters. So yeah, maybe, just maybe you'd have seen more realism within the game if so much dev time hadn't been taken up by just one of the proffs.
Can't counter an argument with a valid discussion point? Fishermage(aka Fisherprice) recommends you cut and paste: ad hominem
"You will come to the conclusion that the only people crazier than the managers who thought this a good idea are those who put up with it and pay for it." - Salvaje (who paid to play the NGE for 18 months) /golfclap
Everyone likes to blame Jedi, but I think how Jedi were pushed in the game and made the center of attention was a symptom of deeper problems.
One was that Jedi were playable because ever since the prequels came out, Jedi = Star Wars. This wasn't the case nearly to the extent it's been since Ep I showed up. Heck, my aspiration when SW first came out was to wear stormie armor, not to wave a lightsaber around.
The idea of SWG is the players are the extras. For first gen SW fans, that means being TK 325 or one of the other pilots in the cantina, not being Luke. For fans of the prequels, it means swinging a lightsaber about.
So, LA pushed Jedi, and nearly every move toward make unlocking the slot easier, and to make the life of a Jedi less dangerous, was driven by the sales team wanting to sell more units because they thought that the need to be Jedi was the key to success. Look at the NGE: InstaJedi from the getgo. For those of us who had already worn the paddy robes before the NGE, it frankly wasn't that big a deal, but for those who had not unlocked, it was a dream come true.
Quite aside from the gameplay issues, Jedi were part of the downfall because they were seen by LA marketing as the magic bullet that would break all those records for MMOs. Never mind that the game itself had serious problems quite apart from tossing Jedi into the mix...it was released prematurely. The combat system wasn't fully vetted at the high end, and furthermore the interplay between elite crafters and elite combat hadn't been properly playtested. Furthermore, it was lacking a lot of tools it needed to be a successful sandbox game which it was intended to be, and the directed content was thin when it was intended to be much richer than it was, and this shows in game itself. All those POIs, those bunkers, those caves, each one with a story to tell, but no story present. Just go in an slaughter NPCs/critters. Never mind that they were based on lore that wasn't presented in game. WoW goes out of its way to fill in the gaps of lore with books in libraries and so forth. Real love for the lore there that SWG neglected in its headlong rush to get that ROI right this second.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Poor attempt at trying to look like the 'mature' player.
No one can seriously say outloud 'I was a squad leader and musician in a science fiction game' then call everyone else 'babies'. If you think it gives you prestige, I challenge you to either, walk boldly into your boss' office and proclaim it or on your next date, let that be the conversation starter. We'll see how much respect you get for your mature adherence to the SWG lore.
You cannot play 'make-believe' and then condemn everyone elses 'pretend persona' to be immature.
"My squad leader was great, he would help us destroy our enemies and then break into song" - that doesn't sound like a mature representation imo in any way. Sounds like what they did in the Batman TV series. Defeat the bad guy and then go-go dance. You have some nerve talking about 'babies'.
Don't get me wrong, the lore of SWG is completely borked, I just don't see it as an issue of 'maturity'.
You didn't get to see day-to-day life in any of the Star Wars movies, would have been one hell of a boring series if you did wouldn't it. It was left to your imagination for the most part, Jedi however, we know for a fact didn't duel by the dozen outside Theed Starport. Big difference.
I just have to say one thing, it's a GAME, people bought SWG in the first place because it promised them they could play jedi's, no one bought SWG so they can find a bunch of nerds and role-play nerf herders.
1 thing sold SWG, lightsabers.
CU and NGE didn't kill SWG, WoW did, people heard how amazing and fun it was and flocked to it like flies to shit, like the masses always do when they hear of something bigger and better.
the ONLY game WITHOUT jedi's that I think would sell decent, is a Star Wars FPS game, not some cheesy Third person shooter, but a good first person one, maybe done by COD 1,2 and 4's developers. not that battlefront bullshit.
SWG was ALOT of fun without Jedi up until around March 2004 when Guardians started showing up, but even then when you first saw a player Jedi you would go "OH WOW!". There were tons of things to do without being a Jedi back then, the economy was probably the best thing and I loved going to other player cities and shopping for bargains.
Continuity is the dumbest concept for any MMORPG. If your seeking continuity just watch the movies. It belongs no where in a MMORPG.
Let them be Jedi. If they like being another one of the masses its their bizness. The CU was no different. Took a few months of grinding to get a Jedi, they were running around everywhere about like it is now, except now you have a "Jedi" at low level but that Jedi isn't capable of much until he's 90, therefore you see many more of them, it seems. This is what happens when you base a game off a movie everyone wants to play the hero so you have 100s of "heroes" running around the game but they're more sheep for the slaughter.
In the CU they ran rampant, worse than now because they ran about unchecked unless there was a BH who knew what they were doing. Now they have to be careful about dueling while overt because other classes than just a BH can ruin their little duel. They can't act as supreme and 1337 as they used to, though some still try to, and a few actually are really tuff in PvP, but 7 out of every 10 "Jedi" can be taken out.
zirzo- CL90 imp spy, Valcyn
oxirz- CL36 imp smuggler, Bria
The real problem as I see it is people do not understand what an MMORPG is. Every player in the game besides you is transitory. This means that they may be there "exist" and they may not. They may choose to no longer play the game, have wife aggro issues, fail to pay for their account, etc. The number of player jedi can never be something that matters because sometimes there will be a few and other times there may be many. Consider the game as your personal story and you will see that the other players are nice to have and socialize with but the fact that they are not persistant and cannot be counted upon to exist means that they are somewhat irrelevant. They may enhance gameplay but what they are cannot count against or towards the story and canon.
Another thing folks within SWG seem to ignore is the fact that there were not a great number of Mandolarian armor wearing bounty hunters and commandos according to the lore. This seems to be ok with them. I am all for the great numbers because I adhere to the logic described within the first paragraph but if you do not then any game can become "difficult" to stomach in time.
You can attempt to justify the over abundant existance of Jedi in SWG if you want but, to me, Lucas has already established that there is only 1 Jedi alive after the events of Episode 4 -- Yoda. That's it. There was no secret cult of Jedi hiding out in their thongs and sunglasses waiting for the day they could come fight in the GCW. In fact, the ONLY Jedi who fought in the GCW was Luke. All other Jedi were killed before the events of Ep 4 took place. You can say, well there may have been others on other planets or whatever suits your fancy to justify the existance of Jedi in SWG but we all know it's BS. If they had planned to introduce Jedi in the game as a playable class then they should have set the timeline for the game in such a period where it would make sense to see hundreds of people running around with glowbats. To set the game in the period after Ep. 4 and then allow all these people to run around, without consequence, as a Jedi, is just absurd and smacks in the face of everything we know of Star Wars.
In the time of Pre-CU when Jedi were less prominent and couldn't stay in public sight without being hunted, I believe it was more acceptable. To have the ability to play Jedi at the start is ludicrous. As many have said Yoda is the last remaining Jedi once Obi-Wan passed, there was no one to pass down traditions of Jedi to random people out and about. Another hidden Jedi or Force Sensitive tribe? Ok maybe, but a galaxy full of them? No. The problem with SWG is that no one is transitory, its a true galaxy that lives like a true one would. Player driven economy, politics, technology, and story(thanks to all the broken/unfinished quests). It was an MMO built on the foundation of community existence.
Those of you who want less Jedi in the game, rejoice! Something other than the continuing subscriber losses will soon reduce the Jedi population drastically:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/posts/list.m?&topic_id=626812
It's stuff like this that makes me wonder if the Devs actually hate their customers and try, on purpose, to keep them as pissed off as possible.
What a little bitch. That's the least professional thing I've ever seen any game representative say. This person belongs in a plastic bubble to protect his impossibly thin skin from damage.PS: I've spoken to Valara about the negativity in these threads. I respond to positive threads. If I get quiet, it's probably because you've driven me off. Please try to keep this thread positive, so I can continue talking to you. If you do not like something, put a positive spin on it by suggesting something else in its place (that's reasonable) instead of tearing me apart.
If you can't accept the fact that you've ruined a viable product and that there are very accurate negative things to say about your product, just quit now and get a job without any responsibility or any chance for negative feedback. THIS is how SWG died, management failed to get rid of these man babies from the company.
Umm Manbaby,? Valara is a woman moskowitz Ive actually seen pics of her during fanfest and a recent summit check the forums main SWG forums for a recent summit that took place at least 2 weeks ago posted by a melvader...
You didn't get to see day-to-day life in any of the Star Wars movies, would have been one hell of a boring series if you did wouldn't it. It was left to your imagination for the most part, Jedi however, we know for a fact didn't duel by the dozen outside Theed Starport. Big difference.
I just have to say one thing, it's a GAME, people bought SWG in the first place because it promised them they could play jedi's, no one bought SWG so they can find a bunch of nerds and role-play nerf herders.
1 thing sold SWG, lightsabers.
CU and NGE didn't kill SWG, WoW did, people heard how amazing and fun it was and flocked to it like flies to shit, like the masses always do when they hear of something bigger and better.
the ONLY game WITHOUT jedi's that I think would sell decent, is a Star Wars FPS game, not some cheesy Third person shooter, but a good first person one, maybe done by COD 1,2 and 4's developers. not that battlefront bullshit.
Believe it or not, not all Star Wars fans are "nerds" that want to "roleplay nerf herders", I can't stand RP'ing, hate it with a passion in fact, didn't like crafting, didn't like the social aspect but I love Star Wars, I grew up with it and you know what.... there's millions more like me all over the world, for your idea to be right, as soon as the first SWG Jedi promo went online the servers should have been full of Star Wars fans, and yet they never were. Yes it's a game, a game that carries the Star Wars brand and that means that there's millions of fans that couldn't give a shit about RP, about crafting, about socialising, about how overpowered X class is, they would have been more than happy to buy into a piece of the Star Wars universe and that means: GCW = No Jedi.Star Wars fans should have been the target audience, not mmo players and certainly not a sub 20yr old bitch, whinge and cry kiddie section like they aimed at with the NGE. Star Wars fans number in their millions, none of the others do, and sorry but if you screw with the canon, you're screwing the fans.
Can't counter an argument with a valid discussion point? Fishermage(aka Fisherprice) recommends you cut and paste: ad hominem
"You will come to the conclusion that the only people crazier than the managers who thought this a good idea are those who put up with it and pay for it." - Salvaje (who paid to play the NGE for 18 months) /golfclap
May explain why reception of the prequels was less than fully enthusiastic amongst some of the fans.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi