Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Flash vs. C++
MiarBlackwel
Member Posts: 4
What potential does a flash based MMORPG have compaired to one creating one with C++? (Game Play, not Graphics)
Comments
Flash is a 2D medium for the most part, where object oriented C++ allows for 3D game play.
You didn't give enough information in the question for us to determine an answer that is relevant to whatever problem you are clearly trying to solve.
EDIT: There are also plenty of resources out there that already answer your question. Try searching Google or buying some code books.
Theoretically... the MMO would not be "built" in Flash... You might have a client that uses Flash to display the graphics and whatnot but you wouldn't have a back-end server running a flash applette. The back end would probably be written in a common language such as Python or C and would more than likely be running on a chosen linux distro.
As far as the difference between gameplay? There really shouldn't be MUCH limiting gameplay functionality in a flash vs. C based client. More than likely your client would not be written in "flash" though it would be more likely written using Adobe Flex which is less of an animation studio and more of a coding platform... Flex Apps are still run in Flash player.
The only true differences that I can think of is the graphics and compatibilty options.
Thanks thats all i needed
But that is really the difference right? You won't be able to call graphical functions from built in libraries like OpenGL or DirectX unless you download like an ActiveX program to feed between the two. But this would limit your compatability to IE Users on Windows.
Tecmo Bowl.
As for the backend, in my exprience, ESPECIALLY if you havent done LARGE amounts of server programming it is best to use a language like C# on a window platform. The good thing about C# and the dot Net framework is you have a solid backbone of a server to build off of with the .NET but also you have C#'s garbage collection.
When programming a server side app your #1 biggest issue by far, second to none, 99% of your time spent on will be server side memory leaks. When a client suddenly disconnects, packets are lost. Shit happens and if you havent got a decade of server programming in you pocket and an exorbitant amount of time id reccomend taking a small hit in performance to save your time and your sanity.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Flash is my profession.
People may tell you Flash (script) is not object oriented. This is thing of the past. Flash Script 3.0 is as powerful as any other scripting language (it resembles Java a lot) plus you have the benefit of much easier acces to web,graphic and display features. Something which C++ programming would take much more development time.
Problem with Flash however is something else.
Flash does not support 3D acceleration.
All the graphic in Flash is rendered straight on the main processor.
This is brick wall for any serious game development in Flash. Since the apps can be quite processor intensive.
There is however rumour that new version of Flash will support DX9 and open GL ...and even maybe have some kind of 3D engine
And than we will see real outburst of Flash Games
You can make pretty much anything with Flash, however... like Java, flash is a platform that sits on top of C++.
Basicaly, Flash is what SHOULD replace Java.
If you talk about something being your profession and are giving advice, you might want to call your 'Flash Script 3.0' by its correct name (ActionScript 3.0), as it might seriously reduce people's faith in what you are saying.
Explain.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
If you talk about something being your profession and are giving advice, you might want to call your 'Flash Script 3.0' by its correct name (ActionScript 3.0), as it might seriously reduce people's faith in what you are saying.
Congratulations on making totally , malicious - yet completely useless post
Congratulations on doing the same
In all real honesty, all programming languages are capable of the same feats, its just languages are tailored to fit the developers needs (and the users of the language needs) so each language has certain strengths and weaknesses. For examples, assembly is about as close as you can get machine language (i.e. binary opicodes for certain architectures) so it runs quickly but very hard to understand without firsthand experience in coding with the language. As opposed to Java or VB, which are strong object oriented languages which are powerful problem solving paradigms which allows people to produce applications in a timly fashion but with productability comes slower code or large overhead (memory intensive). Honestly, no single language is better than any other as most languages were developed to perform a specific job. It just so happens that C++ has been around for a long time, with a lot of attention spent by Bjarne Stroustrup and the multitude of programmers that have used the language, developed tons of libraries which allow C++ to do many things, but this also leads to other problems. Either way, all languages have their strengths and weaknesses.
Edit: grammer and whatnot
MMOs Played: I can no longer list them all in the 500 character limit.
One note to this excellent summary is that althought it is POSSIBLE to accomplish it in Flash or Java, it may be horrible to implement. For example C and C++ have pointers, Java and Flash do not. You cannot make direct memory refrences which although it can often be great for teaching the basics of encapsulation can make certain tasks extreemly hard in Java or VB or flash that are trivial in C/C++
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Explain.
I’ll try to explain Munki but you might have a lot more knowledge then me, so if I’m wrong, just feed me the knowledge
I’m no Java Coder but I do run a team of Java Porters for various J2ME applications. Now, I’ve worked on a few interesting titles and basicaly got to work on pretty much 50% of the titles you can download for the past 2 years. I’m also behind the creation of some of the first MMOs on Verizon phones that were later ported for J2ME (but failed :P) So no, I’m not a coder and more a manager and coordinator… However, afte two years, you kinda know how to give the proper direction to your porters, you quickly learn what they can cut and tweak in order to improve the stability of an application.
Before doing that, I was a Video Editor for a public organization. Now that’s where my Flash skills were being used since I often had to incorporate some of my vids to our websites. (back when Flash 3 or 4 was the thing to go)
Most of our Java solutions were quickly replaced (eventually putting Java guru out) by Action scripts and Flash.
Now even if it’s mobile or on the web, all I can say is that Java and Flash are able to perform the same task but what seems to take 1 second on Flash often ends up taking 10 seconds on Java…. Eventually, you start feeling the lag.
Can Flash really produce a 3D application like Runescape… I don’t know but with a solid engine, I’m sure you could make it happen.
Sooooooooo…. That’s why I think Flash should replace Java. J
I don't think all languages can do the same thing. Take something like Symbolics LISP. Code could equal data and data could equal code. With lambda your software could invent code on the fly and was done in a number of AI projects in the 80's and early 90's. Expert systems and software provers were areas where this was used. Don't think you will be able to do that is basic.
I heard that python has lambda abilities but not sure what type of implementation you have goind on there.
http://game.wakfu.com/en/
This is an upcoming 3d Flash MMORPG. I just figured I'd link it since it was relevant, not because I wanted to prove anyone wrong about anything.
P.S. It actually looks like a cool game (PVP, Player housing, ect.) and, it's a French game not Asian.
_________________________________
Hail to the King, baby.
Errr, Actionscript pisses me off!!!
The reason you would want to develop a game in C++ is because the performance it would have over Flash. There are some 3rd party 3d libraries out there, well that enable you to easily do some things in 3d. Like others have said though, no real hardware support for 3d.
And to get back to the Actionscript comment I made. I wish they would put a ByVal, instead of passing everything around ByRef(keep ByRef as default with option to do ByVal). Sometimes you really do need to do deep copies and it is surely a pain dealing with that in Flash...
I've never considered isometric view 3d but rather 2.5. Those are the same devs that made Dofus which is also isometric view if I'm not mistaken
I've never considered isometric view 3d but rather 2.5. Those are the same devs that made Dofus which is also isometric view if I'm not mistaken
I normally think of 2.5d when a 2d game gives off the appearance of a 3d game. And, yea it's the same folks that brought us Dofus (which I didn't really care for) .
_________________________________
Hail to the King, baby.
TO put it simply - Flash was developed to enhance internet applications. C++ is the powerhorse, extremely powerfull, low level language, hard to learn/master/code.
If all you want is a simple game and you only worry about compatability and time effort, then go with Flash. If you want a serious game, with serious graphics, go with C++
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
A game made with flash will probably used as part of an internet application. You will probably end up interfacing it with lots of HTML, PHP, Javascript and MySQL. Programming an MMO in this way is easier, since your website is also essentially the dedicated server. However, graphically, you are limited by download times, and while flash opens up the possibility of animation, you're still having to go through the browser, which imposes certain limitations as well.
C++ would be used to create a standalone executable. It's harder to learn than any of the languages mentioned above (as previously stated, those languages are no object oriented, while C++ is). You would have to get a server set up, to talk to different hosts running your game.
As far as gameplay as concerned, if you get flash involved, you can create pretty much any kind of game you want. If you build inside the browser, you have to kill any "real time" elements because of the way browsers work. But Flash bypasses that problem.
- Matt
http://onlinerpg.ikimashoz.com/
Explain.
I’ll try to explain Munki but you might have a lot more knowledge then me, so if I’m wrong, just feed me the knowledge
I’m no Java Coder but I do run a team of Java Porters for various J2ME applications. Now, I’ve worked on a few interesting titles and basicaly got to work on pretty much 50% of the titles you can download for the past 2 years. I’m also behind the creation of some of the first MMOs on Verizon phones that were later ported for J2ME (but failed :P) So no, I’m not a coder and more a manager and coordinator… However, afte two years, you kinda know how to give the proper direction to your porters, you quickly learn what they can cut and tweak in order to improve the stability of an application.
Before doing that, I was a Video Editor for a public organization. Now that’s where my Flash skills were being used since I often had to incorporate some of my vids to our websites. (back when Flash 3 or 4 was the thing to go)
Most of our Java solutions were quickly replaced (eventually putting Java guru out) by Action scripts and Flash.
Now even if it’s mobile or on the web, all I can say is that Java and Flash are able to perform the same task but what seems to take 1 second on Flash often ends up taking 10 seconds on Java…. Eventually, you start feeling the lag.
Can Flash really produce a 3D application like Runescape… I don’t know but with a solid engine, I’m sure you could make it happen.
Sooooooooo…. That’s why I think Flash should replace Java. J
You can't create anything demanding with Flash. As soon as the program becomes a bit larger than a video player, or some slideshow program, Flash will choke on the horrible layers and layers of scripting and coding included, which is the very thing making Flash so easy to create. If you create two similar programs with Java and with Flash, you'll find that the Java program runs so much smoother. Try to play an advanced 3D Flash game. Does it perform very well compared to C++ games?(C++ is somewhat more difficult than Java, and it provides even better performance)
Flash is good for smaller programs and games, as it reduces the creation time alot, where as Java is better for larger programs. Java is also real coding where Flash is scripting.
I'm confused.....
The whole browser loader thing that was discussed kinda lost me in concept...because I pretty much thought that the majority of models and textures were stored client side anyway. The only thing the chosen medium for reading the flash script would have to do is pull them from your own personal memory, not load them from a server.
Since all the major data is stored like that...the only REAL worry would be how the medium handles using flash to cope with the transfer of information to keep up with a few hundred people in the same area. I can see how that would be tough...but there are plenty of C++ programs that fail on that one too.
Also, I was pretty sure the newest release of Flash gave it a good deal of 3D support. I know that there are some guys already playing with it on places like newgrounds...and so far its running pretty smooth. Especially considering that these guys aren't industry pros. It would stand to reason that someone with more intimate knowledge of the system could feasibly make it run well enough to handle low-load games. I doubt its ready for anything EQ or WoW level, of course.
Maybe I'm just missing something. Admittedly, I'm far from "informed" on this matter.