It would seem to me a great many of you need to look back on the history of the world before you argue about nonsense alarmist garbage like this.
Are things tough? Sure, but when have they been easy? Kids, life is gonna punch you in the gut a few times. You will fall victim to bad events, but things will work themselves out. Just prey you never have to endure war, poverty or sacrifice like other generations before us did.
The great depression...makes the people of today look like whinny children.
As long as we keep allowing people like George W. Bush to be in charge, yup, we are.
The problem with America is its top .01% is basically a parasite that is killing off the host, and don't care that they're doing so. It's their own doom, but they've become so short term obsessed that they don't care.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
I don't really care either way, but please use proper syntax and grammar in further correspondence as it is confusing for me, and I can guess for others too, to figure out what you're trying to state. Anyways, the point is that America is an idea is that most don't get it, not even those that claim to be Americans (if you read my post properly especially the line about how there are those that claim to be Americans that don't carry the idea of America within themselves). Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness are essential because it is of these three that we find that not one of them infringe on another person, nor require the existence of laws, governments, tyrants, policemen, and so on. They only require that individuals act in accordance of reason, acting in their self-interest, and recognize that every human being that exists or will exist must act in their own self-interest too (which is why we have these rights in the first place.).
It is from this fact that civilization even exists, but it is in America, it found a home for a little while, but now it has no real home. The European nations are hostile to true liberty (individual liberty and responsible), so is China, Russia, India, Japan, and so on. No one nation on Earth harbors this idea, each nation abhors it in its own custom. And that is the problem, for if this is the way things are going to follow, then it means that our civilization will surely collapse from this abhorrence of liberty (for which it was liberty that made it possible to build it in the first place). In the end, there is no hope I will indulge, rather it is action that I seek; from myself and others if there is to be any sense of hope at all.
-- Brede
I'm one of those Americans who doesn't get the idea of America, or carry it inside me etc. Maybe because I don't see that Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness in the same way you do. At least as far as the way they've been incorporated in America. I don't know in what point in time that Americans had these ideals in mind in the way you describe. America, since its creation, has had many things that conflict with those ideals.
I don't see the collapse of America as a collapse of its ideals, but simply as a nation that ran out ahead of the pack and is now getting tired. It would only be a matter of time before other nations caught up to America and its resources. America having to look to other nations for resources, and the dollar falling, are simply byproducts of the rest of the world catching up.
America won't fall because of lost ideals, or lost power, it will just fall into line with other nations. Everything will be fine.
America is a country full of hard working people, some people view america as lazy but we have some of the longest work schedules in the world, fewest vacations.. and whatnot
The reason our country is in a financial crisis is because a lot of people are very greedy and looking out for #1
namely the big corporations, they want to maximize their profits and minimize their work force
so their shareholders can have a better return and their CEOs can drive their ferraris
so theres a 10% tax cut for imports, they'll fire their american workforce and hire chinese labor for a tiny fraction of the cost
all the while people are buying fewer american made goods, companies are having to outsource everything to keep prices competitive
if you go to the store you'll see everything's made in china or somewhere else, mexico
and they can charge much less for that product.. because it costs them so much less to produce it
No, the reason your country is in financial crisis, is because so many of your citizens have got so far in debt, the banks no longer believe they are ever going to repay the money they have borrowed.
Consequently, they aren't willing to lend any more.
You can now only buy houses, cars and Playstations if you actually have the money for them yourselves.
You've all been living off your over drafts and credit cards and taking mortgages. It used to be the very rare American that was in any kind of debt. It was a social taboo.
Now it is the norm.
P.S. it's not just "big companies" that seek to minimsie their workforces. It's "all" companies. No one owes you a job. If you don't like shareholders investing in your factory, if you don't like the CEO pandering to them, raise your own investment. You become the shareholder. Start your own company, you become the CEO. I'd never heard of people blaming America's financial crisis on the "lazy" before. But listening to you, it makes perfect sense if they do.
Shareholders are savers. People who earnt the same wage as you in the same job, but instead of getting an overdraft a mortgage and the highest credit limit on their cards possible, they chose to live more modestly and within their means. The money they saved while others squandered theirs, they invested.
Thank god CEO's maximise their profits. Imagine how unfair it would be if a person lived poorer than he needed just so that some lazy bastard could carry on working in a job that no one wanted doing, and could keep on buying the latest Playstation games the month before he got paid.
Why should an invester have to work harder and longer than someone else?
Imagine if CEO's all quit and every incentive to save and live moddestly were removed from society. If overly moral types where given free reign to guilt trip society out of the money it worked so hard to get hold of, so they could all blow it on trash living and fancy solar panels.
You cry about the loss of the car industry in one sentence, and cry about the need for outlawing cars in the next. Actions have consequences.
As long as we keep allowing people like George W. Bush to be in charge, yup, we are.
The problem with America is its top .01% is basically a parasite that is killing off the host, and don't care that they're doing so. It's their own doom, but they've become so short term obsessed that they don't care.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
As long as we keep allowing people like George W. Bush to be in charge, yup, we are.
The problem with America is its top .01% is basically a parasite that is killing off the host, and don't care that they're doing so. It's their own doom, but they've become so short term obsessed that they don't care.
Actually i refer to the fact that we are a nation divided, by politics,religion,race,and economics. After decades of abuses and or negligence from the Goverment it has also created a mistrust of the same.
It appears the USA is heading for a perfect storm. I dont beleive one man "GW" can destroy America. But the systematic corruption of all levels of society will. Even Rome fell in the end. If a galvanizing event happens in the future its doubtful we will ever unify to save ourselves.
As long as we keep allowing people like George W. Bush to be in charge, yup, we are.
The problem with America is its top .01% is basically a parasite that is killing off the host, and don't care that they're doing so. It's their own doom, but they've become so short term obsessed that they don't care.
Who elected Bush?
The deserting fratboy won 100% of the African-American vote, 100% of the Italian-American vote, and 50% of the female vote in 2000.
When the US Supreme Court selected him by a 5-4 vote.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
As long as we keep allowing people like George W. Bush to be in charge, yup, we are.
The problem with America is its top .01% is basically a parasite that is killing off the host, and don't care that they're doing so. It's their own doom, but they've become so short term obsessed that they don't care.
Who elected Bush?
The deserting fratboy won 100% of the African-American vote, 100% of the Italian-American vote, and 50% of the female vote in 2000.
When the US Supreme Court selected him by a 5-4 vote.
America is a country full of hard working people, some people view america as lazy but we have some of the longest work schedules in the world, fewest vacations.. and whatnot
The reason our country is in a financial crisis is because a lot of people are very greedy and looking out for #1
namely the big corporations, they want to maximize their profits and minimize their work force
so their shareholders can have a better return and their CEOs can drive their ferraris
so theres a 10% tax cut for imports, they'll fire their american workforce and hire chinese labor for a tiny fraction of the cost
all the while people are buying fewer american made goods, companies are having to outsource everything to keep prices competitive
if you go to the store you'll see everything's made in china or somewhere else, mexico
and they can charge much less for that product.. because it costs them so much less to produce it
No, the reason your country is in financial crisis, is because so many of your citizens have got so far in debt, the banks no longer believe they are ever going to repay the money they have borrowed.
Consequently, they aren't willing to lend any more.
You can now only buy houses, cars and Playstations if you actually have the money for them yourselves.
You've all been living off your over drafts and credit cards and taking mortgages. It used to be the very rare American that was in any kind of debt. It was a social taboo.
Now it is the norm.
P.S. it's not just "big companies" that seek to minimsie their workforces. It's "all" companies. No one owes you a job. If you don't like shareholders investing in your factory, if you don't like the CEO pandering to them, raise your own investment. You become the shareholder. Start your own company, you become the CEO. I'd never heard of people blaming America's financial crisis on the "lazy" before. But listening to you, it makes perfect sense if they do.
I'm not blaming America's financial crisis on the "Lazy," I am simply stating how other countries view Americans as a stereotype.
Maybe nobody "Owes me a job" but America is made up of mostly laborers and working middle class. What is happening is the American "middle class" is disappearing and these workers are being forced to accept lower paying jobs because their work is being outsourced. Skilled laborers are being replaced by illegal immigrants being taught to do the same job for a tiny fraction of the pay just so one person at the top can live comfortably. Big company or small company, it doesn't matter- they cannot produce a product without skilled workers. These skilled workers also make up an important part of the economy as consumers, if they had no means of viable income they would simply buy less and what does that mean for the companies trying to market their product?
you figure it out.
Shareholders are savers. People who earnt the same wage as you in the same job, but instead of getting an overdraft a mortgage and the highest credit limit on their cards possible, they chose to live more modestly and within their means. The money they saved while others squandered theirs, they invested.
That's all fine and dandy, I admit I like to indulge. I like to live comfortably but who doesn't? Am I wrong for not investing my money in a failing economy? I'm not in debt. I go out of my way to buy American-made products so that my countrymen can keep a job producing tools or cars and provide support for their families. Now I understand I may have contradicted myself in the last paragraph but this is my means of investing. I'm investing in my country. So that small businesses who employ Americans and provide American-made products, however rare they may be, might have a chance against the Walmart corporation's Chinese- made goods. So that someday my children may have a means to provide for their families. And trust me you CAN NOT support a family on 9 dollars an hour.
Thank god CEO's maximise their profits. Imagine how unfair it would be if a person lived poorer than he needed just so that some lazy bastard could carry on working in a job that no one wanted doing, and could keep on buying the latest Playstation games the month before he got paid.
Makes me all teary-eyed inside to think that maybe the CEO of Exxon/Mobil or Walmart wont be able to gas up his corporate jet. Maybe we should all be slaves to big organizations who will pay us what they feel we're worth.
Why should an invester have to work harder and longer than someone else?
They shouldn't.
Imagine if CEO's all quit and every incentive to save and live moddestly were removed from society. If overly moral types where given free reign to guilt trip society out of the money it worked so hard to get hold of, so they could all blow it on trash living and fancy solar panels.
"Fancy solar panels" as you say might as well be our future. They're an expensive source of renewable energy and perhaps someday could provide our country with cleaner air and minimal dependance on foreign oil. I also noted other sources, or did you just skim my passage?
You cry about the loss of the car industry in one sentence, and cry about the need for outlawing cars in the next. Actions have consequences.
I'm "crying" as you say about the loss of American jobs. I could honestly care less about what happens to the big three. They'll be fine.
I've said nothing about "outlawing cars" please if you're going to flame me at least read what I said.
So now that we're done derailing the topic yeah those are a few things I think would benefit America greatly.
China owns our debt, outnumbers us 4 to 1, their economy is the fastest-growing in the world, their growth requires one-half of the worlds concrete and a third of it's steel.
Our only hope is to innovate ourselves into the driver's seat of the next technological revolution, otherwise America will be left in the dust by the Chinese. So best to hope the next president, unlike THE CHIMP, believes in science instead of treating it as another religion he can choose to believe in or not as slave to oil companies.
It's funny you go out of your way to purchase US goods. I sure as hell don't, i buy the best balance of price and quality. I feel absolutely no duties to purchase US goods. Then again I don't believe in nationalism. If those CEO didn't outsource their works millions of chinese, Indians, and Indonesians would be suffering from poverty and god knows what else.
The cheap prices keep the company running and thus keep up jobs for the outsourced workers. So people are benefitting, what is the big deal about whether they are American or Chinese or Indonesians . . .
And Baff is usually right.
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
The only way that America won't be here in 10 years is if a couple (meaning 5-6) thermo-nuclear bombs blow up all around the country. To tell the truth, we would be better off because though the physical country may be gone, the raw concept and idea will still be alive and we can start over just like our founding fathers meant it to be. (minus all the bad crap like slavery and corruption). The idea is ABSOLUTELY GREAT, it'z just been twisted and shreaded over the last 225 yrs. And to think it all started with an invasion of an island and we declared ourselves world police ( I hate that policy). (Wow this turned into a history lesson fast, i love history lol and im good at it too).
The ideals of America have been comatose for along time, and some of them are dead. Physically, America is still here, of course, and probably will be 10 years from now. But it wont be the sort of country people from 40 years ago would have wanted or admired. It *certainly* wont be something people from 200 years ago would've wanted or admired.
IMO, America is becoming/has become a parody of itself. It is drenched in hypocracy, debt, and unjustified pride in itself. Still, it is very powerful -- more so than any other single nation on the planet -- but that power is not paired with the wisdom to use it properly or to know when not to use it at all.
So, I don't think any other country will somehow destroy America. I think that we'll do it to ourselves. What we will become might still be called the USA, but it will be that in name only, not in spirit.
You get your historical perspective from the time in which you where born into.
America will be all things to all people as it is now and in 10 yrs
China Ha ha HA... what a joke,sometime in the future you will see it brake apart JUST like the USSR, and just how long do think their going to be able to keep suppressing the free will of their people.
people will come and go,elected officials come and go, but THE GOOD OLD USA STIILL SHAPES THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT.
O He of Little faith.
Monsters dont groom them-selfs
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
You get your historical perspective from the time in which you where born into. America will be all things to all people as it is now and in 10 yrs China Ha ha HA... what a joke,sometime in the future you will see it brake apart JUST like the USSR, and just how long do think their going to be able to keep suppressing the free will of their people. people will come and go,elected officials come and go, but THE GOOD OLD USA STIILL SHAPES THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT. O He of Little faith.
China isn't like the USSR.
Of course the USA will shape the next decades. The economical crisis will surely involve the whole world.
In history books of the 30's it will be written that none of the superpowers of the cold war survived.
We're facing a multipolar world in which the US will have even slightly less importance than others (like Brazil, South-Africa, India, China, EU, ...)
You get your historical perspective from the time in which you where born into. America will be all things to all people as it is now and in 10 yrs China Ha ha HA... what a joke,sometime in the future you will see it brake apart JUST like the USSR, and just how long do think their going to be able to keep suppressing the free will of their people. people will come and go,elected officials come and go, but THE GOOD OLD USA STIILL SHAPES THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT. O He of Little faith.
China isn't like the USSR.
Of course the USA will shape the next decades. The economical crisis will surely involve the whole world.
In history books of the 30's it will be written that none of the superpowers of the cold war survived.
We're facing a multipolar world in which the US will have even slightly less importance than others (like Brazil, South-Africa, India, China, EU, ...)
I can't believe no one remembers the Carter years and the 70s in general. It wasn't that long ago! We arn't even close to those days. There was real depresion in those days. Double digit interest rates. Iran hostage crisis and Carters bumbleing of that. Giving up Panama canal. Double digit inflation, and on and on. The only thing Carter did right is sign off on the cruise missile. Now depresion is my mmo game is delayed again. I bet the future didn't look too good during the WW1 and WW2 either.
Now we have a hostile media that constantly attacks the current administration and the world media just loves it.
But nationalism believes in you cryo and it will pummel you at every opportunity.
Nationalism is like religion. It is part of us and that will never change whether you choose to believe or not.
Nations will continue to try to exploit one another and when something doesn't go their way, war will always result. That is the way of human nature, ethno-centricism and whatever else.
We will always think of our selves as "members" of whatever group or tribe. You can no more fight it then you can fight the ideas that drive religion in peoples hearts and minds.
Any "nation" who somehow cease to believe in itself as a people will cease to exist that same day as other hungrier nations will dominate it in the name of their "nationalism".
Its a lofty idea of a world whistling "its a small world after all" but reality is, countries would rip each other to shreds if given the opportunity if any one of them dropped their guard to non-nationalist thinking, over the now availible land, human resources, ideaologies, natural resources, revenge whatever. As they always have and will continue. In order for that to happen, everyone at the same time, everywhere, would have to want to do it. That isn't possible. Someone, either collectively or individually will always work to consolidate power, resources whatever and will promoting as the greater good of their group / nation.
Think about yourself and eliminate any national identification. Try to think totally neutral. There is no US, EU, Middle East, Iraq, Africa, Asia....just different geographic locations with people there. You can't, your brain is wired to think that way. There will ALWAYS be an "us" and "them". Its part of your instincts to survive.
Demonstrating compassion, tolerance and peace for your fellow man is another subject and one we should all strive to do but you can never eliminate nationalism.
You get your historical perspective from the time in which you where born into. America will be all things to all people as it is now and in 10 yrs China Ha ha HA... what a joke,sometime in the future you will see it brake apart JUST like the USSR, and just how long do think their going to be able to keep suppressing the free will of their people. people will come and go,elected officials come and go, but THE GOOD OLD USA STIILL SHAPES THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT. O He of Little faith.
China isn't like the USSR.
Of course the USA will shape the next decades. The economical crisis will surely involve the whole world.
In history books of the 30's it will be written that none of the superpowers of the cold war survived.
We're facing a multipolar world in which the US will have even slightly less importance than others (like Brazil, South-Africa, India, China, EU, ...)
I can't believe no one remembers the Carter years and the 70s in general. It wasn't that long ago! We arn't even close to those days. There was real depresion in those days. Double digit interest rates. Iran hostage crisis and Carters bumbleing of that. Giving up Panama canal. Double digit inflation, and on and on. The only thing Carter did right is sign off on the cruise missile. Now depresion is my mmo game is delayed again. I bet the future didn't look too good during the WW1 and WW2 either.
Now we have a hostile media that constantly attacks the current administration and the world media just loves it.
Excatly carter was way worse then Bush. The canal was bringing in tons of money. I think it was at least 300mil and year when it opened. What we need is a prez liek Regan who doesnt take shit from anyone and gets things going stright.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
But nationalism believes in you cryo and it will pummel you at every opportunity.
Nationalism is like religion. It is part of us and that will never change whether you choose to believe or not. Nations will continue to try to exploit one another and when something doesn't go their way, war will always result. That is the way of human nature, ethno-centricism and whatever else. We will always think of our selves as "members" of whatever group or tribe. You can no more fight it then you can fight the ideas that drive religion in peoples hearts and minds. Any "nation" who somehow cease to believe in itself as a people will cease to exist that same day as other hungrier nations will dominate it in the name of their "nationalism". Its a lofty idea of a world whistling "its a small world after all" but reality is, countries would rip each other to shreds if given the opportunity if any one of them dropped their guard to non-nationalist thinking, over the now availible land, human resources, ideaologies, natural resources, revenge whatever. As they always have and will continue. In order for that to happen, everyone at the same time, everywhere, would have to want to do it. That isn't possible. Someone, either collectively or individually will always work to consolidate power, resources whatever and will promoting as the greater good of their group / nation. Think about yourself and eliminate any national identification. Try to think totally neutral. There is no US, EU, Middle East, Iraq, Africa, Asia....just different geographic locations with people there. You can't, your brain is wired to think that way. There will ALWAYS be an "us" and "them". Its part of your instincts to survive. Demonstrating compassion, tolerance and peace for your fellow man is another subject and one we should all strive to do but you can never eliminate nationalism. You are no more non-nationalist then I am.
Torak,
You are right buddy. I'm idealistic. I just don't like nationalism in anyway shape or form. Think of it this way. People from Texas consider themselves Texans or people from California, Californians, but yet they are all united. Why can't the world be that way . . . other than it is human nature.
The Arab people were once under the ottoman empire and now they're fragmented and fighting each other because one is Syrian and one is Lebanese or Palestinian. As if it even means anything. It's a useless way to identify people. Sorry, not useless, but unimportant in the grand scheme of things or perhaps, the consequences of thinking it is important is too great for the benefit of it actually being important.
I'm idealistic and the truth is we separate into "us" vs "them" but I just think nationalism is so stupid. Why can't our "us" vs "them" encapsulate a larger region. The world. We are all human, isn't that enough?
In the end, humans suck. Torak you want me to make you that account, the sooner the better if you agree.
Am I the only person that thinks with globalization and the ability to spread resources out and all modern crap that we have, that fighting between nations is quite childish? Or am I idealistic and naieve and retarded to boot.
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Torak, You are right buddy. I'm idealistic. I just don't like nationalism in anyway shape or form. Think of it this way. People from Texas consider themselves Texans or people from California, Californians, but yet they are all united. Why can't the world be that way . . . other than it is human nature. The Arab people were once under the ottoman empire and now they're fragmented and fighting each other because one is Syrian and one is Lebanese or Palestinian. As if it even means anything. It's a useless way to identify people. Sorry, not useless, but unimportant in the grand scheme of things or perhaps, the consequences of thinking it is important is too great for the benefit of it actually being important. I'm idealistic and the truth is we separate into "us" vs "them" but I just think nationalism is so stupid. Why can't our "us" vs "them" encapsulate a larger region. The world. We are all human, isn't that enough? In the end, humans suck. Torak you want me to make you that account, the sooner the better if you agree. Am I the only person that thinks with globalization and the ability to spread resources out and all modern crap that we have, that fighting between nations is quite childish? Or am I idealistic and naieve and retarded to boot. Cryomatrix
Nah,
I would love to live in a world where we could all hold hands and hug each other, trust me when I say that.
I think its great that people strive for it and I hope that one day it works out. Without people like you and your ideals we would be nothing more then barbarians. There is nothing wrong with being idealistic, "naive" and you are not "retarded" lol...
Until then we do what we must.
Is it stupid? Yes....I won't argue that. I have been there, seen it and pay the price. Is it necessary right now? Yes. Like I said, until the day everyone on this rock decides to they ain't gonna practice war no more and live happily ever after, no one can let their guard down. Sad but true.
If people like me put down our guns and turn our backs, whats to stop the other guy from taking you and yours? Nothing.
Your freedoms / ideals / values / culture / religion in whatever country you are from are protected by patriots, nationalist. Without them, you and your way of life cease to exist as history has demonstrated over and over in the last few thousand years.
Anyway, on topic...the OP posted non-sense and we all fell for it. Look at her post history, all is doom and gloom. Her game sucks and she is quiting, her country is dying...she really has nothing positive to offer about anything. It must stink to go through life with an attitude like that. Probably the sort of person who as soon as something becomes even slightly uncomfortable they turn on it or quit. /shrug, maybe I'm wrong and they just like to complain on forums. Either way, they are "free" to do and say what they wish. many people on this planet do not enjoy those same freedoms.
America isn't a place, rather it's an idea. An idea that one owns one's self, one's labor and time as property. That no other may seek any portion of it as their property without trade. Yet, today, that idea is out of fashion, it is considered old and tired, and some even claim it's impractical. But ideas like these don't really die, they simply find new minds to inhabit. For me it is sad to say that those that claim to be Americans don't house the idea of America anymore. And to me, they are the ones who are dead, not the idea. -- Brede
OMG!!! I'm in love! I couldn't have said that better.
You get your historical perspective from the time in which you where born into. America will be all things to all people as it is now and in 10 yrs China Ha ha HA... what a joke,sometime in the future you will see it brake apart JUST like the USSR, and just how long do think their going to be able to keep suppressing the free will of their people. people will come and go,elected officials come and go, but THE GOOD OLD USA STIILL SHAPES THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT. O He of Little faith.
Monsters dont groom them-selfs
Frodus, I hope (for the sake of the world) that you're right. But if you look at history as a whole, the default position is China at the top. The western worlds power is a recent phenomenon.
Rajai, It's funny you go out of your way to purchase US goods. I sure as hell don't, i buy the best balance of price and quality. I feel absolutely no duties to purchase US goods. Then again I don't believe in nationalism. If those CEO didn't outsource their works millions of chinese, Indians, and Indonesians would be suffering from poverty and god knows what else.
The cheap prices keep the company running and thus keep up jobs for the outsourced workers. So people are benefitting, what is the big deal about whether they are American or Chinese or Indonesians . . . And Baff is usually right. Cryomatrix
I buy American-made products because I know that somewhere in America somebody's family's wellbeing depends on their ability to provide a household and to make a living.
Because I know that it is impossible to support a family working at McDonalds making minimum wage.
I hope that other people feel the same as I.
You've obviously never been to Detroit and seen how bad it has been so I feel like I'm wasting my time with this response.
Comments
It would seem to me a great many of you need to look back on the history of the world before you argue about nonsense alarmist garbage like this.
Are things tough? Sure, but when have they been easy? Kids, life is gonna punch you in the gut a few times. You will fall victim to bad events, but things will work themselves out. Just prey you never have to endure war, poverty or sacrifice like other generations before us did.
The great depression...makes the people of today look like whinny children.
www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/depression/depression.htm
World War II, the cost in Human lives and material was astronomical. Here is a brief overview
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II
Allied Axis
Over 14,000,000
Civilian dead:
Over 36,000,000
Total dead:
Over 50,000,000
...further details.
Over 8,000,000
Civilian dead:
Over 4,000,000
Total dead
Over 12,000,000
Cost is est at about 1 trillion
The history of terrorism ("now we have terrorism", lol....terrorism has been around for a very long time young lady)
www.cdi.org/friendlyversion/printversion.cfm
As long as we keep allowing people like George W. Bush to be in charge, yup, we are.
The problem with America is its top .01% is basically a parasite that is killing off the host, and don't care that they're doing so. It's their own doom, but they've become so short term obsessed that they don't care.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
I don't really care either way, but please use proper syntax and grammar in further correspondence as it is confusing for me, and I can guess for others too, to figure out what you're trying to state. Anyways, the point is that America is an idea is that most don't get it, not even those that claim to be Americans (if you read my post properly especially the line about how there are those that claim to be Americans that don't carry the idea of America within themselves). Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness are essential because it is of these three that we find that not one of them infringe on another person, nor require the existence of laws, governments, tyrants, policemen, and so on. They only require that individuals act in accordance of reason, acting in their self-interest, and recognize that every human being that exists or will exist must act in their own self-interest too (which is why we have these rights in the first place.).
It is from this fact that civilization even exists, but it is in America, it found a home for a little while, but now it has no real home. The European nations are hostile to true liberty (individual liberty and responsible), so is China, Russia, India, Japan, and so on. No one nation on Earth harbors this idea, each nation abhors it in its own custom. And that is the problem, for if this is the way things are going to follow, then it means that our civilization will surely collapse from this abhorrence of liberty (for which it was liberty that made it possible to build it in the first place). In the end, there is no hope I will indulge, rather it is action that I seek; from myself and others if there is to be any sense of hope at all.
-- Brede
I'm one of those Americans who doesn't get the idea of America, or carry it inside me etc. Maybe because I don't see that Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness in the same way you do. At least as far as the way they've been incorporated in America. I don't know in what point in time that Americans had these ideals in mind in the way you describe. America, since its creation, has had many things that conflict with those ideals.I don't see the collapse of America as a collapse of its ideals, but simply as a nation that ran out ahead of the pack and is now getting tired. It would only be a matter of time before other nations caught up to America and its resources. America having to look to other nations for resources, and the dollar falling, are simply byproducts of the rest of the world catching up.
America won't fall because of lost ideals, or lost power, it will just fall into line with other nations. Everything will be fine.
No, the reason your country is in financial crisis, is because so many of your citizens have got so far in debt, the banks no longer believe they are ever going to repay the money they have borrowed.
Consequently, they aren't willing to lend any more.
You can now only buy houses, cars and Playstations if you actually have the money for them yourselves.
You've all been living off your over drafts and credit cards and taking mortgages. It used to be the very rare American that was in any kind of debt. It was a social taboo.
Now it is the norm.
P.S. it's not just "big companies" that seek to minimsie their workforces. It's "all" companies. No one owes you a job. If you don't like shareholders investing in your factory, if you don't like the CEO pandering to them, raise your own investment. You become the shareholder. Start your own company, you become the CEO. I'd never heard of people blaming America's financial crisis on the "lazy" before. But listening to you, it makes perfect sense if they do.
Shareholders are savers. People who earnt the same wage as you in the same job, but instead of getting an overdraft a mortgage and the highest credit limit on their cards possible, they chose to live more modestly and within their means. The money they saved while others squandered theirs, they invested.
Thank god CEO's maximise their profits. Imagine how unfair it would be if a person lived poorer than he needed just so that some lazy bastard could carry on working in a job that no one wanted doing, and could keep on buying the latest Playstation games the month before he got paid.
Why should an invester have to work harder and longer than someone else?
Imagine if CEO's all quit and every incentive to save and live moddestly were removed from society. If overly moral types where given free reign to guilt trip society out of the money it worked so hard to get hold of, so they could all blow it on trash living and fancy solar panels.
You cry about the loss of the car industry in one sentence, and cry about the need for outlawing cars in the next. Actions have consequences.
As long as we keep allowing people like George W. Bush to be in charge, yup, we are.
The problem with America is its top .01% is basically a parasite that is killing off the host, and don't care that they're doing so. It's their own doom, but they've become so short term obsessed that they don't care.
Who elected Bush?
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His dad's friends.
I hope not but if it does ill still have Texas.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
As long as we keep allowing people like George W. Bush to be in charge, yup, we are.
The problem with America is its top .01% is basically a parasite that is killing off the host, and don't care that they're doing so. It's their own doom, but they've become so short term obsessed that they don't care.
Actually i refer to the fact that we are a nation divided, by politics,religion,race,and economics. After decades of abuses and or negligence from the Goverment it has also created a mistrust of the same.
It appears the USA is heading for a perfect storm. I dont beleive one man "GW" can destroy America. But the systematic corruption of all levels of society will. Even Rome fell in the end. If a galvanizing event happens in the future its doubtful we will ever unify to save ourselves.
As long as we keep allowing people like George W. Bush to be in charge, yup, we are.
The problem with America is its top .01% is basically a parasite that is killing off the host, and don't care that they're doing so. It's their own doom, but they've become so short term obsessed that they don't care.
Who elected Bush?
The deserting fratboy won 100% of the African-American vote, 100% of the Italian-American vote, and 50% of the female vote in 2000.
When the US Supreme Court selected him by a 5-4 vote.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
As long as we keep allowing people like George W. Bush to be in charge, yup, we are.
The problem with America is its top .01% is basically a parasite that is killing off the host, and don't care that they're doing so. It's their own doom, but they've become so short term obsessed that they don't care.
Who elected Bush?
The deserting fratboy won 100% of the African-American vote, 100% of the Italian-American vote, and 50% of the female vote in 2000.
When the US Supreme Court selected him by a 5-4 vote.
Yay for democracy.
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No, the reason your country is in financial crisis, is because so many of your citizens have got so far in debt, the banks no longer believe they are ever going to repay the money they have borrowed.
Consequently, they aren't willing to lend any more.
You can now only buy houses, cars and Playstations if you actually have the money for them yourselves.
You've all been living off your over drafts and credit cards and taking mortgages. It used to be the very rare American that was in any kind of debt. It was a social taboo.
Now it is the norm.
P.S. it's not just "big companies" that seek to minimsie their workforces. It's "all" companies. No one owes you a job. If you don't like shareholders investing in your factory, if you don't like the CEO pandering to them, raise your own investment. You become the shareholder. Start your own company, you become the CEO. I'd never heard of people blaming America's financial crisis on the "lazy" before. But listening to you, it makes perfect sense if they do.
I'm not blaming America's financial crisis on the "Lazy," I am simply stating how other countries view Americans as a stereotype.
Maybe nobody "Owes me a job" but America is made up of mostly laborers and working middle class. What is happening is the American "middle class" is disappearing and these workers are being forced to accept lower paying jobs because their work is being outsourced. Skilled laborers are being replaced by illegal immigrants being taught to do the same job for a tiny fraction of the pay just so one person at the top can live comfortably. Big company or small company, it doesn't matter- they cannot produce a product without skilled workers. These skilled workers also make up an important part of the economy as consumers, if they had no means of viable income they would simply buy less and what does that mean for the companies trying to market their product?
you figure it out.
Shareholders are savers. People who earnt the same wage as you in the same job, but instead of getting an overdraft a mortgage and the highest credit limit on their cards possible, they chose to live more modestly and within their means. The money they saved while others squandered theirs, they invested.
That's all fine and dandy, I admit I like to indulge. I like to live comfortably but who doesn't? Am I wrong for not investing my money in a failing economy? I'm not in debt. I go out of my way to buy American-made products so that my countrymen can keep a job producing tools or cars and provide support for their families. Now I understand I may have contradicted myself in the last paragraph but this is my means of investing. I'm investing in my country. So that small businesses who employ Americans and provide American-made products, however rare they may be, might have a chance against the Walmart corporation's Chinese- made goods. So that someday my children may have a means to provide for their families. And trust me you CAN NOT support a family on 9 dollars an hour.
Thank god CEO's maximise their profits. Imagine how unfair it would be if a person lived poorer than he needed just so that some lazy bastard could carry on working in a job that no one wanted doing, and could keep on buying the latest Playstation games the month before he got paid.
Makes me all teary-eyed inside to think that maybe the CEO of Exxon/Mobil or Walmart wont be able to gas up his corporate jet. Maybe we should all be slaves to big organizations who will pay us what they feel we're worth.
Why should an invester have to work harder and longer than someone else?
They shouldn't.
Imagine if CEO's all quit and every incentive to save and live moddestly were removed from society. If overly moral types where given free reign to guilt trip society out of the money it worked so hard to get hold of, so they could all blow it on trash living and fancy solar panels.
"Fancy solar panels" as you say might as well be our future. They're an expensive source of renewable energy and perhaps someday could provide our country with cleaner air and minimal dependance on foreign oil. I also noted other sources, or did you just skim my passage?
You cry about the loss of the car industry in one sentence, and cry about the need for outlawing cars in the next. Actions have consequences.
I'm "crying" as you say about the loss of American jobs. I could honestly care less about what happens to the big three. They'll be fine.
I've said nothing about "outlawing cars" please if you're going to flame me at least read what I said.
So now that we're done derailing the topic yeah those are a few things I think would benefit America greatly.
Trump 2016
China owns our debt, outnumbers us 4 to 1, their economy is the fastest-growing in the world, their growth requires one-half of the worlds concrete and a third of it's steel.
Our only hope is to innovate ourselves into the driver's seat of the next technological revolution, otherwise America will be left in the dust by the Chinese. So best to hope the next president, unlike THE CHIMP, believes in science instead of treating it as another religion he can choose to believe in or not as slave to oil companies.
Rajai,
It's funny you go out of your way to purchase US goods. I sure as hell don't, i buy the best balance of price and quality. I feel absolutely no duties to purchase US goods. Then again I don't believe in nationalism. If those CEO didn't outsource their works millions of chinese, Indians, and Indonesians would be suffering from poverty and god knows what else.
The cheap prices keep the company running and thus keep up jobs for the outsourced workers. So people are benefitting, what is the big deal about whether they are American or Chinese or Indonesians . . .
And Baff is usually right.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
The only way that America won't be here in 10 years is if a couple (meaning 5-6) thermo-nuclear bombs blow up all around the country. To tell the truth, we would be better off because though the physical country may be gone, the raw concept and idea will still be alive and we can start over just like our founding fathers meant it to be. (minus all the bad crap like slavery and corruption). The idea is ABSOLUTELY GREAT, it'z just been twisted and shreaded over the last 225 yrs. And to think it all started with an invasion of an island and we declared ourselves world police ( I hate that policy). (Wow this turned into a history lesson fast, i love history lol and im good at it too
).
The ideals of America have been comatose for along time, and some of them are dead. Physically, America is still here, of course, and probably will be 10 years from now. But it wont be the sort of country people from 40 years ago would have wanted or admired. It *certainly* wont be something people from 200 years ago would've wanted or admired.
IMO, America is becoming/has become a parody of itself. It is drenched in hypocracy, debt, and unjustified pride in itself. Still, it is very powerful -- more so than any other single nation on the planet -- but that power is not paired with the wisdom to use it properly or to know when not to use it at all.
So, I don't think any other country will somehow destroy America. I think that we'll do it to ourselves. What we will become might still be called the USA, but it will be that in name only, not in spirit.
This has all been in my opinion, of course. YMMV.
You get your historical perspective from the time in which you where born into.
America will be all things to all people as it is now and in 10 yrs
China Ha ha HA... what a joke,sometime in the future you will see it brake apart JUST like the USSR, and just how long do think their going to be able to keep suppressing the free will of their people.
people will come and go,elected officials come and go, but THE GOOD OLD USA STIILL SHAPES THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT.
O He of Little faith.
Monsters dont groom them-selfs
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
China isn't like the USSR.
Of course the USA will shape the next decades. The economical crisis will surely involve the whole world.
In history books of the 30's it will be written that none of the superpowers of the cold war survived.
We're facing a multipolar world in which the US will have even slightly less importance than others (like Brazil, South-Africa, India, China, EU, ...)
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China isn't like the USSR.
Of course the USA will shape the next decades. The economical crisis will surely involve the whole world.
In history books of the 30's it will be written that none of the superpowers of the cold war survived.
We're facing a multipolar world in which the US will have even slightly less importance than others (like Brazil, South-Africa, India, China, EU, ...)
I can't believe no one remembers the Carter years and the 70s in general. It wasn't that long ago! We arn't even close to those days. There was real depresion in those days. Double digit interest rates. Iran hostage crisis and Carters bumbleing of that. Giving up Panama canal. Double digit inflation, and on and on. The only thing Carter did right is sign off on the cruise missile. Now depresion is my mmo game is delayed again. I bet the future didn't look too good during the WW1 and WW2 either.Now we have a hostile media that constantly attacks the current administration and the world media just loves it.
But nationalism believes in you cryo and it will pummel you at every opportunity.
Nationalism is like religion. It is part of us and that will never change whether you choose to believe or not.
Nations will continue to try to exploit one another and when something doesn't go their way, war will always result. That is the way of human nature, ethno-centricism and whatever else.
We will always think of our selves as "members" of whatever group or tribe. You can no more fight it then you can fight the ideas that drive religion in peoples hearts and minds.
Any "nation" who somehow cease to believe in itself as a people will cease to exist that same day as other hungrier nations will dominate it in the name of their "nationalism".
Its a lofty idea of a world whistling "its a small world after all" but reality is, countries would rip each other to shreds if given the opportunity if any one of them dropped their guard to non-nationalist thinking, over the now availible land, human resources, ideaologies, natural resources, revenge whatever. As they always have and will continue. In order for that to happen, everyone at the same time, everywhere, would have to want to do it. That isn't possible. Someone, either collectively or individually will always work to consolidate power, resources whatever and will promoting as the greater good of their group / nation.
Think about yourself and eliminate any national identification. Try to think totally neutral. There is no US, EU, Middle East, Iraq, Africa, Asia....just different geographic locations with people there. You can't, your brain is wired to think that way. There will ALWAYS be an "us" and "them". Its part of your instincts to survive.
Demonstrating compassion, tolerance and peace for your fellow man is another subject and one we should all strive to do but you can never eliminate nationalism.
You are no more non-nationalist then I am.
China isn't like the USSR.
Of course the USA will shape the next decades. The economical crisis will surely involve the whole world.
In history books of the 30's it will be written that none of the superpowers of the cold war survived.
We're facing a multipolar world in which the US will have even slightly less importance than others (like Brazil, South-Africa, India, China, EU, ...)
I can't believe no one remembers the Carter years and the 70s in general. It wasn't that long ago! We arn't even close to those days. There was real depresion in those days. Double digit interest rates. Iran hostage crisis and Carters bumbleing of that. Giving up Panama canal. Double digit inflation, and on and on. The only thing Carter did right is sign off on the cruise missile. Now depresion is my mmo game is delayed again. I bet the future didn't look too good during the WW1 and WW2 either.Now we have a hostile media that constantly attacks the current administration and the world media just loves it.
Excatly carter was way worse then Bush. The canal was bringing in tons of money. I think it was at least 300mil and year when it opened. What we need is a prez liek Regan who doesnt take shit from anyone and gets things going stright.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Torak,
You are right buddy. I'm idealistic. I just don't like nationalism in anyway shape or form. Think of it this way. People from Texas consider themselves Texans or people from California, Californians, but yet they are all united. Why can't the world be that way . . . other than it is human nature.
The Arab people were once under the ottoman empire and now they're fragmented and fighting each other because one is Syrian and one is Lebanese or Palestinian. As if it even means anything. It's a useless way to identify people. Sorry, not useless, but unimportant in the grand scheme of things or perhaps, the consequences of thinking it is important is too great for the benefit of it actually being important.
I'm idealistic and the truth is we separate into "us" vs "them" but I just think nationalism is so stupid. Why can't our "us" vs "them" encapsulate a larger region. The world. We are all human, isn't that enough?
In the end, humans suck. Torak you want me to make you that account, the sooner the better if you agree.
Am I the only person that thinks with globalization and the ability to spread resources out and all modern crap that we have, that fighting between nations is quite childish? Or am I idealistic and naieve and retarded to boot.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Nah,
I would love to live in a world where we could all hold hands and hug each other, trust me when I say that.
I think its great that people strive for it and I hope that one day it works out. Without people like you and your ideals we would be nothing more then barbarians. There is nothing wrong with being idealistic, "naive" and you are not "retarded" lol...
Until then we do what we must.
Is it stupid? Yes....I won't argue that. I have been there, seen it and pay the price. Is it necessary right now? Yes. Like I said, until the day everyone on this rock decides to they ain't gonna practice war no more and live happily ever after, no one can let their guard down. Sad but true.
If people like me put down our guns and turn our backs, whats to stop the other guy from taking you and yours? Nothing.
Your freedoms / ideals / values / culture / religion in whatever country you are from are protected by patriots, nationalist. Without them, you and your way of life cease to exist as history has demonstrated over and over in the last few thousand years.
Anyway, on topic...the OP posted non-sense and we all fell for it. Look at her post history, all is doom and gloom. Her game sucks and she is quiting, her country is dying...she really has nothing positive to offer about anything. It must stink to go through life with an attitude like that. Probably the sort of person who as soon as something becomes even slightly uncomfortable they turn on it or quit. /shrug, maybe I'm wrong and they just like to complain on forums. Either way, they are "free" to do and say what they wish. many people on this planet do not enjoy those same freedoms.
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Frodus, I hope (for the sake of the world) that you're right. But if you look at history as a whole, the default position is China at the top. The western worlds power is a recent phenomenon.
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I buy American-made products because I know that somewhere in America somebody's family's wellbeing depends on their ability to provide a household and to make a living.
Because I know that it is impossible to support a family working at McDonalds making minimum wage.
I hope that other people feel the same as I.
You've obviously never been to Detroit and seen how bad it has been so I feel like I'm wasting my time with this response.
Trump 2016