I dont know, the only trolling i see in this thread is by some feared fanboy who is worried someoen could throw mud on his beloved precious.
I respect LOTRO for what it is and thats not much.
LOTRO has 2 innovative elements for me that bring the MMO genre forward.
a) trying the concept of interactive story telling.
b) the fun music system.
In many other aspects it just disappointed me. In some cases its a true step backwards. That begins when running through another character causes no collision. It feels so ugly when ur used to games with "solid" models. And it ends when you realise that there are almost no queststs that demand a decission to be made which causes a consequence for your toon other than a reward.
The oh so celebrated graphics is only good as long as you dont watch any animation.
Why did they even bother with PvMP? Why waste resources for a side game that has no influence on the story or the world at all?
And you applaude they fix bugs quickly? I think they are rather slow with it, the auction house bug was in for weeks. I also found it very frustrating that EU players - altho paying more than the US players are treated second class. Loads and loads of disadvantages compared to the US servers. Most annoying is that the EU players have no access to the Lore Book yet almost 1 year after release. (Or is that fixed now?)
LOTRO is a simplified WoW clone with a niche audience. If it was a good MMO with that license you could read "2 MILLION SUBSCRIPTIONS NOW!" - "3 MILLION SUBSCRIPTIONS NOW" everywhere over the net. But its not a good MMO its only a good license hiding behind nice landscape graphics.
Call it trolling but this thread discusses the downsides of LOTRO - which can clearly be seen when reading the title of the thread - if you disagree, why do you even bother to troll this thread?
I dont know, the only trolling i see in this thread is by some feared fanboy who is worried someoen could throw mud on his beloved precious. I respect LOTRO for what it is and thats not much. LOTRO has 2 innovative elements for me that bring the MMO genre forward. a) trying the concept of interactive story telling. b) the fun music system. In many other aspects it just disappointed me. In some cases its a true step backwards. That begins when running through another character causes no collision. It feels so ugly when ur used to games with "solid" models. And it ends when you realise that there are almost no queststs that demand a decission to be made which causes a consequence for your toon other than a reward. The oh so celebrated graphics is only good as long as you dont watch any animation. Why did they even bother with PvMP? Why waste resources for a side game that has no influence on the story or the world at all? And you applaude they fix bugs quickly? I think they are rather slow with it, the auction house bug was in for weeks. I also found it very frustrating that EU players - altho paying more than the US players are treated second class. Loads and loads of disadvantages compared to the US servers. Most annoying is that the EU players have no access to the Lore Book yet almost 1 year after release. (Or is that fixed now?) LOTRO is a simplified WoW clone with a niche audience. If it was a good MMO with that license you could read "2 MILLION SUBSCRIPTIONS NOW!" - "3 MILLION SUBSCRIPTIONS NOW" everywhere over the net. But its not a good MMO its only a good license hiding behind nice landscape graphics. Call it trolling but this thread discusses the downsides of LOTRO - which can clearly be seen when reading the title of the thread - if you disagree, why do you even bother to troll this thread? Bursche.
Well, we disagree with disagreement. That being said, yes, all fantasy themed, PvE orinted games have similarities. After all, WoW was called watered down EQ etc.
I like LOTRO but I doubt there ever will be any game that can be called the BEST game, depends on preferences.
What is constantly repeated by naysayers is that LOTRO isn't ZOMFG amazing success with gazillion of subscribers. And since it is not a WoW killer it must be a bad game and I disagree with that logic. Each to its own though.
I agree with you Bursche but you forgot one thing what makes mockery of LOTR title and thats maps. I never ever seen in any MMO with monthly sub such a ugly drown maps. Whole map system is a joke.
I wouldn't say anything if there is at least some options so that we can put our own markers but no its unbelievable i can stand on some position and look at the map and its just unrecognizable. Tolkien put some effort and draw maps 60 years ago.
Thanks god for few web sites who can provide us with better maps but cmon why not have it in game.
You mentioned PvMP and its true its stupid but i can understand that probably people who like LOTRO dont like to see any kind of PvP but whats wrong with Housing why is this huge part of the game empty and you all rpgers asked for it.
One more thing, i cant understand why no one use this in game system to create fellowship. Its very hard to find decent group, most of the time impossible. This could be because there is not enough people in game.
I couldn't believe when i started conversation how many high levels 40+ never hear about coordinates and how you can use them in LOTRO.
I'm not exactly happy with this game and talking about community in LOTRO its most immature community from all games i ever tried. Sometimes i have a feeling that its all 10y old around me.
I agree on that it has nice landscapes but toon animations looks like they came from 80' so again it ruins overall impression about graphics in this game.
I've also tried very hard to like LotRO. The graphics were incredible. I liked the diversity of quests from combat to non-combat. I enjoyed the immersion factor, even the music and environments were nicely done. But, I too, found myself totally bored with the game. I guess it comes down to my own personal taste.
I'm simply tired of linear MMOs. I'm tired of having to commit wilderness animal genocide just to level up. I'm tired of mobs conveniently placed all over the place just so I don't have to be bothered walking more than five feet to kill something. I'm tired of NPCs who do nothing but stand or dance in place ad infinitum. Give me a living & breathing world for once. The Shire is a beautiful place to start the game in...but it is dead and lifeless. It is Disneyland in a video game with all of its fake buildings and costumed characters who do nothing more than just smile and give you a graphical menu when you click on them. I want more than this, especially for a Middle Earth world.
I'm not blaming Turbine or LotRO or accusing them of making a bad game for not doing it the way I want it to be. For what they've done, the game is great. But, if you're like me who has spent years playing MMOs, this kind of linear game has simply become boring.
One more thing, i cant understand why no one use this in game system to create fellowship. Its very hard to find decent group, most of the time impossible. This could be because there is not enough people in game. I couldn't believe when i started conversation how many high levels 40+ never hear about coordinates and how you can use them in LOTRO. I'm not exactly happy with this game and talking about community in LOTRO its most immature community from all games i ever tried. Sometimes i have a feeling that its all 10y old around me.
After playing EQ, WoW, SWG, Guild Wars, DAoC, LoTRO and a couple more I have forgotten about I think there is a strong possibility of the maturity level you are comparing LoTRO as to other games is quite mistaken. I am sure you may have experienced immaturity in the game, for in sneaks into all games either a lot or a little. But to compare it as an over extending amount of the player base at this time is just wrong. MOST, if not nearly all, of the player base is of the more mature player type. Best example of this is watch the advice channel when someone asks a question, and my proof is that is not filled with constant babbling about Chuck Norris, or how the person that asked such a stupid question clearly sucks at this game, or their epeen (err I mean gear) is totally huge and it RoXXers.
For the first time in 7 years I can play an MMO that I don't feel I have to log and and rush to level because all of the action is in the "end game".
For the first time I can smell the roses and enjoy the ride as I play the game and an enjoyable and leisurely pace.
I can ask questions about the game in the advice channel and OMGawdz get real answers.
I can play a game that actually honors the originators view of the world they created rather than butcher it for the good of a few hardcores to maximize gameplay. And I am reading Lord of the Rings yet again while I play the story through, and I can actually relate even more to the maps, mathom houses, the shire, etc. because of it.
I can play a game that is visually pleasing to my eye.
I can play a game that doesn't all of the sudden incorporate dinosaurs, space aliens, and demons to further a story line.
I can enjoy all five factors of MMO gaming at this time, crafting, questing, soloing, grouping, and raiding. And each is just as rewarding and proficient as the other.
I can enjoy combat mechanics that are more true to fantasy as Tolkien provided us than the giant fire ball, ice coment, corruption illusion of other games.
Perhaps the reason some people get bored so easily with LoTRO is because effectively Turbine has taken the "carrot on a stick" away and replaced it with our own curious drive and need to explore the fantasy.
To Boomer: Read the fine prints in many of our replies here. Its almost concensus that LOTRo is good, its polished, its bug free, it is breathtaking in terms of grafix, its .... very good. Many agreed on this. We do not need to compare with WoW or EQ2, LOTRo stands tall in terms of professional finishing. The issue is, we somehow failed to connect to the game for too long, a month a few months, we somehow lost touch with the game. The latest announcement about MoM is most exciting, and as a lifetimer, I am going back to take a look at the new scenery. It must be very beautiful. Still its sad to know that as a lifetimer, I am not loggin onto it till MoM. That is exactly what baffled me. LOTRo is good but somehow I do not feel like loggin in, and I am unable to identify a weakness in the game.
There is no doubts the game was quite polished. The release was a success thanks to it's IP. but, the game just does not have much in the way of "keeping the player" engaged.
Maybe in time, after the expansion or two, then it can match in playability of games like WoW or EQ2...that is barring the new games do not steal the thunder (WotlLK, WAR, AoC), and then people who left WoW for something new, make their way back to WoW or decide to try something new.
One more thing, i cant understand why no one use this in game system to create fellowship. Its very hard to find decent group, most of the time impossible. This could be because there is not enough people in game. I couldn't believe when i started conversation how many high levels 40+ never hear about coordinates and how you can use them in LOTRO. I'm not exactly happy with this game and talking about community in LOTRO its most immature community from all games i ever tried. Sometimes i have a feeling that its all 10y old around me.
After playing EQ, WoW, SWG, Guild Wars, DAoC, LoTRO and a couple more I have forgotten about I think there is a strong possibility of the maturity level you are comparing LoTRO as to other games is quite mistaken. I am sure you may have experienced immaturity in the game, for in sneaks into all games either a lot or a little. But to compare it as an over extending amount of the player base at this time is just wrong. MOST, if not nearly all, of the player base is of the more mature player type. Best example of this is watch the advice channel when someone asks a question, and my proof is that is not filled with constant babbling about Chuck Norris, or how the person that asked such a stupid question clearly sucks at this game, or their epeen (err I mean gear) is totally huge and it RoXXers.
For the first time in 7 years I can play an MMO that I don't feel I have to log and and rush to level because all of the action is in the "end game".
For the first time I can smell the roses and enjoy the ride as I play the game and an enjoyable and leisurely pace.
I can ask questions about the game in the advice channel and OMGawdz get real answers.
I can play a game that actually honors the originators view of the world they created rather than butcher it for the good of a few hardcores to maximize gameplay. And I am reading Lord of the Rings yet again while I play the story through, and I can actually relate even more to the maps, mathom houses, the shire, etc. because of it.
I can play a game that is visually pleasing to my eye.
I can play a game that doesn't all of the sudden incorporate dinosaurs, space aliens, and demons to further a story line.
I can enjoy all five factors of MMO gaming at this time, crafting, questing, soloing, grouping, and raiding. And each is just as rewarding and proficient as the other.
I can enjoy combat mechanics that are more true to fantasy as Tolkien provided us than the giant fire ball, ice coment, corruption illusion of other games.
Perhaps the reason some people get bored so easily with LoTRO is because effectively Turbine has taken the "carrot on a stick" away and replaced it with our own curious drive and need to explore the fantasy.
Well said!
And as some other poster said... "the title of the thread"... yes, you are correct.
"Great game..." it's in the title of this very thread.
The discussion is why a great game does not appeal to all.
Because we are all individuals and have different opinions of what is fun, and what isn't. Those that find the game fun are playing it... those that don't have moved on (although some do seem to keep coming back on a regular basis... heh).
Don't be upset at us that do find the game fun, just because you didn't. It's not our fault that you didn't find it fun. Hopefully there will be a game out soon that you do find fun. Good luck!
I have really tried to love LOTR but something is missing from the game. I cant put my finger on it either. The game has fantastic graphics and great attention to detail. The first time I saw a flock of birds fly over me I thought wow thats something I dont recall ever seeing in an MMO. The water is simply awesome to look at. Its the perfect blend of detail and fantasy effects. In my opinion, LOTR has the absolute best graphics of any MMO period. There are fun quests. I enjoyed those silly pie delivery quests. The game is clean and bug-free. I dont really recall any bugs or issues. Growing crops and cooking is a nice diversion. Yet even after I list all those wonderful qualities, I cant bring myself to enjoy this game. I dont know if its the classes (i find them rather unappealing). Maybe its the strong linear design. I also find the combat and its animations rather uninspiring. Each time I subscribe to LOTR I find myself completely disinterested in playing. It feels like work with all the quests. I cant just go out and explore the game and progress unless Im constantly doing quests. And I dont get any feeling of accomplishment because once I complete a quest, there are 5 more quests to follow it. And some of those quests lead to other areas with still more quests. Its too much. Dont take this as critical because I respect what Turbine has accomplished here. I was previously critical of LOTR back in beta but turbine really turned it around and launched a decent product. And they pump out a lot of free content apparently (i havent personally experienced it). I just wish the game would click for me. I have been without an enjoyable MMO home since the NGE revamp for Star Wars Galaxies. I played from launch for 1 month. I re-subscribed 2 more times since then for 1 month each. Ive played several classes but I always get bored around lvl 25.
Excellent, well spoken post.
I actually feel bad that I no longer play this beautiful game. Being a huge Tolkien fan only makes me feel more obligated. But... No matter how many times I resub (was formally a founder), I get bored and uninspired and hence, leave it again.
I've given it quite a bit of thought. For me, I believe it's the "bland" classes that finally drove me away. This is the only game I've ever played where I can't find an alt character to get excited about. The classes are what's fundamentally wrong with this game.
Sad in a way. The game is beautiful and Turbine has done a wonderful job creating Tolkien's world for us all to enjoy.
But... I just can't get past those lackluster classes.
Excellent, well spoken post. I actually feel bad that I no longer play this beautiful game. Being a huge Tolkien fan only makes me feel more obligated. But... No matter how many times I resub (was formally a founder), I get bored and uninspired and hence, leave it again. I've given it quite a bit of thought. For me, I believe it's the "bland" classes that finally drove me away. This is the only game I've ever played where I can't find an alt character to get excited about. The classes are what's fundamentally wrong with this game. Sad in a way. The game is beautiful and Turbine has done a wonderful job creating Tolkien's world for us all to enjoy. But... I just can't get past those lackluster classes.
Ahh... we may be onto something here then.
I have almost the exact opposite feeling with the classes in LoTRo. For me they are some of the most fun classes I've ever playing in a MMO (still liked my Ranger/Pistoleer/Creature-Handler from SWG the best though).
For Minstrel I've never played a main-healer that had such a wide variety of play-style available. I can play him as a strictly main-healer only with buffing and healing. I can play him as a Soloing dps character with tremendous survivability. I can play him as a group healer/dps/high BPE off-tank. The ease in switching between these roles is just a matter of swapping out some gear choices and some traits to maximize whatever role I wish to fill.
For Lore-Master it most closely resembles the old-EQ Enchanter class. His choices of which pet to use for the situation increases as he levels. He can heal my party to keep them alive (and even rez them) if a Minstrel is not available. He can buff myself and party as well as de-buff the mobs through a variety of spells. He can steal power from mobs and then give it to other party members. He can cast a wide variety of AoE spells to devastating effect on grouping mobs. He can stun almost any mob in the game for crowd control. Yes, Lore-Master is definitely the class to play if you want an endless bounty of options available for every single encounter.
Those are the 2 classes I've played the most. I also have alts in Burglar, Guardian, and Hunter. So, far I've enjoyed all the classes I've tried, but have been so enthralled with my main 2 that I haven't had time to level up the others yet.
Perhaps some others can share what they like from the other classes. I do think that may be a part of why some find LoTRo thoroughly enjoyable and others just so-so. If the classes do not inspire you to want to keep playing then yeah, I could see why the game wouldn't be all that fun. For me though... the classes are a large part of what I really like about the game.
And this is based on what exactely????? Refusal to build a two sided war with PvP? I am pretty sure Tolkien himself would not have agreed to that, and I believe most others if they would understand the conditions and reasons he wrote the books in the first place! Or because there is no magic per say in the game? There really wasn't in the book either! I mean the above is just two assumptions that I could be wrong about what you mean, and I sure would like to know more.
One of the things that makes this game tiring and the community needlessly argumentative is the proclaimers of what "Tolkien himself" would have meant about this and that.
For me that broke the sense of community in the game. It would often degenerate into meaningless debacle concerning what Tolkien might or might not have thought about a given game mechanic instead of acknowledging that it is a license, a hook to lure in the customers bought and paid for by Turbine, nothing less, nothing more.
Lord of the Rings: Online was a strange experience for me. It looked nice at first, I liked the starting equipment, although I soon found out that everybody would look the same within the (few) classes. This might get better now with the new wardrobe system but I can't see it helping with the other (in my view) major flaws in this game.
The instancing is too great in this game which makes the community splintered and very much removed from eachother. Housing is instanced (weird choice for the number one roleplaying hub it could be if placed in the world), major quests are instanced, key buildings are instanced and so and so forth. It makes for a disruptive gaming experience and it creates a segregated removed feel to the entire game world.
The main quest (Epic Quest) would have been a great implementation in a single player game, setting the player apart in the world, but in a MMO it simply becomes the forced track for you, all your friends, and all your combined alts. With random parts interspersed that cannot be tackled unless you're vastly higher level or you can find a group. Others helping you solve something they have already solved will not gain any sort of reward worth mentioning creating a series of possible stops for the casual player. In my personal opinion this is a weak design decision.
Character generation is almost non-existing in this game. You get Virtues for slaughtering an ever increasing amount of mobs. This is without a doubt the most incredibly lazy character progress mechanic ever devised and forces a nearly mindless grind since most players I have seen simply start killing grey mobs for their Virtues. This is a simple numbers game, you just have to kill more and more....
Even with the above "mechanic" (I think "time sink" would be more accurate but that's a personal point of view) you still find that all characters of the same Class are so alike that I have yet to find a player that has levelled for instance two Hunters to level 50. The Character apart from race would be identical. Propably right down to the gear.
The 'Lord of the Rings' books featured a fantastic journey through a mystical realm filled with interesting characters. The game Lord of the Rings: Online is placed in the smallest MMO World in a AAA game released in the last 3 years. On top of that it is filled with an extreme amount of hostile creatures that makes the world feel like the shooting tent at a carnival for me. And it removes the sense of adventure, excitement, exploration and discovery that so filled me when reading the books something that I really think was a mistake to make.
The User Interface is standard EQ2/WoW except for the fact that there is a slight delay from when you push your hotkey until your character reacts. This is something you learn to live with but it never really becomes intuitive to me. That is a very personal element, other people will have other experiences I am sure.
The animations on the other hand are (for the NPCs) more or less non-existant, the life and color of the various regions in the books is replaced by gaunt inactivity in the game and the PCs look jerky, erratic, uncoordinated with your clicks and generally combat ends up being "You stand in my little spot, you stand in yours and we exchange blows until one of us is dead". This is also needed since Lord of the Rings: Online has the most over-zealous "Anti-Cheat" detection in any game I have played, often resetting mobs for no apparent reason only for you to later find that when a single party member stands on a specific series of pixels in a specific location, the mob will reset.
The small world, the banjo playing minstrels, the identical heroes (both in looks and skills), the lack of difference between the various races, the lack-lustre NPCs, the overly present and aggressive bears, boars, wolves, deers (I kid you not), spiders, and so on removes the feeling of Middle Earth that the character creation screen conjures up and the game itself, although beautiful, saps me of any ambition I might have to keep playing it.
I played 3 months, and like the OP I went back later on. I have a single level 50 character (a Hunter) but she will remain like that, no matter how high they set the level cap in their next expansion. For me Lord of the Rings and Middle Earth could have been incredible. What Turbine released was in my eyes not incredible but it had the best character creation screen of any game I have ever played.
And this is based on what exactely????? Refusal to build a two sided war with PvP? I am pretty sure Tolkien himself would not have agreed to that, and I believe most others if they would understand the conditions and reasons he wrote the books in the first place! Or because there is no magic per say in the game? There really wasn't in the book either! I mean the above is just two assumptions that I could be wrong about what you mean, and I sure would like to know more.
One of the things that makes this game tiring and the community needlessly argumentative is the proclaimers of what "Tolkien himself" would have meant about this and that.
For me that broke the sense of community in the game. It would often degenerate into meaningless debacle concerning what Tolkien might or might not have thought about a given game mechanic instead of acknowledging that it is a license, a hook to lure in the customers bought and paid for by Turbine, nothing less, nothing more.
Too bad that Tolkien enterprises controls this IP, (and rather strictly I might add), so that based on what is allowed and what is not most often we can infer that is what Tolkien himself could have wanted. It might be wise for some people to actually read about the man himself, why he wrote the books, when and where he started writing the books, and the book itself in order to develop a better understanding of the game itself. Rather than argue what the game should be some Eve, WoW, EQ, Vanguard, SWG clone because "they are awesome" arguement.
Character generation is almost non-existing in this game. You get Virtues for slaughtering an ever increasing amount of mobs. This is without a doubt the most incredibly lazy character progress mechanic ever devised and forces a nearly mindless grind since most players I have seen simply start killing grey mobs for their Virtues. This is a simple numbers game, you just have to kill more and more....
And sadly we see this in every MMO out there including EQ where snakes could kick, SWG dinosaurs and alien mobs, WoW that has bears, wolves, spiders, boars and the only difference is they added demons, space aliens and dinosaurs to the mix which is outside Tolkien lore.
The small world, the banjo playing minstrels, the identical heroes (both in looks and skills), the lack of difference between the various races, the lack-lustre NPCs, the overly present and aggressive bears, boars, wolves, deers (I kid you not), spiders, and so on removes the feeling of Middle Earth that the character creation screen conjures up and the game itself, although beautiful, saps me of any ambition I might have to keep playing it.
As far as the deer you may be referring to the fact that many of the docile creatures in the game run away when you approach them. Again another unique AI of the game.
Interesting discussion going on. A thread with minimal flaming. Is it a reflection of the maturity and civility ruling in the LOTRo community? :-)
Dragonoak, yes yes I share your feeling. I love the Tolkien lore. I spent a lot of time walking around the map (duo or trio) with my kin mates. We were crazy explorers. We want to go everywhere around the map and enjoy the views. We actually got killed many times watching and taking screen shots while ignoring the chasing giants or trolls. With knowledge of the original Tolkien lore, we were actually sometimes disappointed when we hit a locked gate along the open country paths, knowing that it will open up to another map, we are eager to keep moving. For those who say there is no exploration in this game, try to walk around slowly and enjoy the details as we did. The world is small now, yes, but its rich in details, and more enjoyable than the huge vast but empty map of VG (no intention to start a fight with VG fans).
Someone said that the map is filled with too many mobs. Someone else could also said that the world is too sparse, with nothing to react to. I personally do not mind meeting too many mobs, so long as they do not hinder our sense of exploration. After all, we should expect to die exploring Misty Mountains or the Angmar regions. Given the "trait" grinds, we do need some mobs to kill to get the traits done, for so many active trait seekers.
Yes I love the classes. Minstrel is a hugely fun class, one of my most popular 5. Always summoned for helegrod. Minstrel can be played solo, group, duo, DPS, healer, combo. Hunter is great fun too, and without the WoW bear pet, Hunters in LOTRo need to think to survive. Blah blah blah, enough repetition.
I actually have this strange thought. I should stay away from LOTRo for a bit longer, and when a larger chunk of ME is implemented, I will go back and explore the world again. That will be fun. Talking about it already wakes up some of the dead cells in my brain. Well I need not rush to return, I have Lifetime access. All my friends are Lifetimers too.
One more thing, i cant understand why no one use this in game system to create fellowship. Its very hard to find decent group, most of the time impossible. This could be because there is not enough people in game. I couldn't believe when i started conversation how many high levels 40+ never hear about coordinates and how you can use them in LOTRO. I'm not exactly happy with this game and talking about community in LOTRO its most immature community from all games i ever tried. Sometimes i have a feeling that its all 10y old around me.
After playing EQ, WoW, SWG, Guild Wars, DAoC, LoTRO and a couple more I have forgotten about I think there is a strong possibility of the maturity level you are comparing LoTRO as to other games is quite mistaken. I am sure you may have experienced immaturity in the game, for in sneaks into all games either a lot or a little. But to compare it as an over extending amount of the player base at this time is just wrong. MOST, if not nearly all, of the player base is of the more mature player type. Best example of this is watch the advice channel when someone asks a question, and my proof is that is not filled with constant babbling about Chuck Norris, or how the person that asked such a stupid question clearly sucks at this game, or their epeen (err I mean gear) is totally huge and it RoXXers.
I will comment on this later - since your repeat it for lack of other points.
For the first time in 7 years I can play an MMO that I don't feel I have to log and and rush to level because all of the action is in the "end game".
What does this have to do with LOTRO? I did that in every MMO i played? /shrug with the difference: In other MMO's there was an end game waiting for me. In LOTRO i am forced to wait for the next book updates or expansion.
For the first time I can smell the roses and enjoy the ride as I play the game and an enjoyable and leisurely pace.
/shrug again - as mentioned above (you're repeating this point too...) what does that have to do with LOTRO? I sat in butcherblock mountains on the beach too and watched the sunset or went to the jungle and enjoyed the scenery and atmosphere. As a priest in EQ i celebrated weddings for guildmates in the most romantic locations. We had fun running drunk over kelethin bridges with level 1 alts, we did guild events where 30 level 5 toons tried to kille a hill giant without swords. I dont see what these things have to do with LOTRO? in fact, there is no point in trying these things in LOTRO - as the game mechanics are not complex enough to allow them.
I can ask questions about the game in the advice channel and OMGawdz get real answers.
I found it the opposite - the game helps you so much in the first 20 levels that most questions during this period where really stupid. Questgivers standing on the green path and someone asking where is the green path. People realised quick that the guy asking the question didnt bother to read the quest text at all - not even the yellow part and exactly the flaming down you describe happened. It then happened too when questions came that had a right to be asked (for really difficult to find things). I have witnessed this behaviour on Belegear in May 2007.
I can play a game that actually honors the originators view of the world they created rather than butcher it for the good of a few hardcores to maximize gameplay. And I am reading Lord of the Rings yet again while I play the story through, and I can actually relate even more to the maps, mathom houses, the shire, etc. because of it.
You can? Where did Tolkien write that 95% of middle earth inhabitants are adventurers, where did he write that hobbits swarmed middle earth as powerful guardians and minstrells? Where in the books stands that almost everyone in middle earth killed quadzillions of animals to become a hero? Where are mosquitos mentioned that are bigger than a dwarf? Again, for me it was the opposite - the lore is bent and backstabbed for the sake of MMO playability every 2 inchs. There isnt much left than names that sound familiar to a book i once read and loved or a movie i seen in the cinema.
I can play a game that is visually pleasing to my eye.
That of course is a matter of taste. And i will not disagree here. LOTRO is pleasing the eye if you go first person view and stand next to a lake in nice weather. Lets just not look at animations or how trees jump from left to right while moving. If i ever gona write a cartoon story for my kids the pictures will come from LOTRO.
I can play a game that doesn't all of the sudden incorporate dinosaurs, space aliens, and demons to further a story line.
No you play a game where the fantasy is limitted to yet another balrog fight and yet another balrog fight and more balrog fights will come. We're at 2 now right? or is 2nd Balrog introduced with Moria?
I can enjoy all five factors of MMO gaming at this time, crafting, questing, soloing, grouping, and raiding. And each is just as rewarding and proficient as the other.
Crafting? You call it crafting to watch a progression bar go from left to right and take your reward?
Questing? You call it questing to run from one landmark to the next (clearly given on your map) where no decission has any consequence other than a reward?
Soloing? My burglar did a lvl 39 GROUP quest solo when he was 29 and got an awesome dirk for it. Made the following quests very easy.
Grouping? most FFA groups are just hack&slash where you dont find any player skill as in 80% of LOTRO no skill is demanded so nobody bothered to achieve play skills. Kinship groups are fun for the chit chat tho. But what does that have to do with LOTRO? Put me in a voice chat with these people and i have fun too.
Raiding? see grouping.
I can enjoy combat mechanics that are more true to fantasy as Tolkien provided us than the giant fire ball, ice coment, corruption illusion of other games.
The combat system is stolen together from other games, basically WoW and EQ2. That lotro has no ice commets or giant fire balls is probably for the same reason why DAoC has no machine guns. The setting. By the way, the thing a loremaster throws through the air looks damn close to an ice commet. Having a raven fight for you is - umm... yeah. And that in the heat of battle, when the orc bashes my helm i just SCREAM at him or even better: take my guitar out and play a few tunes to KILL him... yes wonderful and real feel of battle - NOT.
Perhaps the reason some people get bored so easily with LoTRO is because effectively Turbine has taken the "carrot on a stick" away and replaced it with our own curious drive and need to explore the fantasy.
And thats the opposite for me too: Turbine took away any possibility to dream the fantasy further than what is allowed by the lore, thats why you dont fight Gods in LOTRO but yet another Balrog. There will be no flying mounts for a long time because thats not in the lore. Turbine's carrot on the stick is the next book expansion. Because before its out you have nothing to do.
The above comments are not meant as flaming, i just wanted to share my viewpoint on the given remarks. It surprised me so much that you praise things in LOTRO that really are killers for me. If you had praised the music system or the awesome atmosphere of the first 15 levels, if you had praised that the fear thing when your screen gets darker and darker and your char starts to cover and duck is amazing i would have agreed. If you had said how lovely and detailed the shire and other places are drawn, i would have agreed - but that someone praises the most weak parts of this game beyond believe is really a surprise to me
But everyone is entitled to their opinion, so of course if you enjoy all these points its your full right to do so no flaming intended.
Rather than respond in the old EQ fashion by quoting your quotes of my quotes so we can pick apart one anothers long winded quotes, let me just say one mans junk is another man's treasure.
I posted reason why the game appeals to me, in rebuttal to the title of this thread. And your response is to pick apart my reasons I love the game.
EQ is still going, maybe you can pick up where you left off.
well if you cant accept your arguments to be discussed, perhaps you should not put them on the plate.
As I said, i just wanted to share my viewpoint since yours was so surprising to me. I find it kind of intresting that these are your pro arguments for this game altho you state that you know the old school MMO's too. Why did you play MMO's for 7 years if you found them so tedious and umm... unrewarding? I wouldnt even have sticked to the genre - let alone go to a simplified wannabe MMO to praise it as the cream of MMO design.
I have thought alot about lotro from early beta on and why they took the most famous fantasy license to copy&paste a cheap simplified niche MMO together instead of making a genre revolution to appeal to the genre fans. They had the chance to do that with this license - they didnt take the chance.
The product that came out has few pro's - i have given credit to those already and wont repeat them. But for the genre in generall its a setback and a missed chance. And thats the disappointing part of the story.
Once again: no flamin intended im just discussing away and i enjoy reading your posts actually - as i always enjoy to learn other viewpoints in a discussion.
For the first time in 7 years I can play an MMO that I don't feel I have to log and and rush to level because all of the action is in the "end game". What does this have to do with LOTRO? I did that in every MMO i played? /shrug with the difference: In other MMO's there was an end game waiting for me. In LOTRO i am forced to wait for the next book updates or expansion.
Sigh...............
Okay but rather then spend my whole life quoting your quotes of my quotes in order to have a "discussion" I will take one at a time as I get the time to respond. Personally I have far more to do in a day than take one long winded quote of my quotes to type a long winded response that actually most people get very tired of reading the same material over and over again. It is after all so EQ'esk to do this.
So let me take this response to begin with, most every other MMO on the market today is all about the end game. I am tired of the end game. By the time everyone spends months and months to level, they tend to get very self absorbed, crabby, and obnoxious at the end game. Raiding the same boss 100 times to get that one single drop everyone needs, that drops 1 out of 100 times, has gotten very old.
What does it have to do with LOTRO? You really need to ask? Ok let me say it again, the game is about the story line, it is designed and developed to actually participate, enjoy, and play it out one part at a time. I don't have to feel like I am in a rush, I can actually enjoy the game with my wife and those I meet along the way, not rushing to raid the same boss 100 times. Now I am sure you will counter each and every point, since you are old school, and EQ taught you that this is what the forums is all about, but since I have a long debacle of your post to respond too, I will come back to it and only it, not spend my time debating every explanation I give.
"I did that in every MMO I played" not sure if you are telling me you did that, and if so gratz, I don't want to anymore. If it is a question, yes the games I played were designed as a end game rush. It was all about the raiding and the end game content, even so much that the gear you got on the way was pure crap. And again I am tired of that kind of gaming.
For you I am glad it is all about the rush and the epeeners, err I mean raiders at the end game waiting for you to raid that same boss 100 times for so you can gear up for the next boss you need to raid 100 times for the next boss. See how old it gets?
And I am sorry you feel so let down having to wait for the next book or expansion. But there are a ton of games designed for that end game that is waiting for you to include EQ and the five others that are there waiting. But for me the next book, expansion, area are part of the excitement, and knowing I will have more waiting for me for several years to come. I can actually take a break from a game, travel, see friends, and work on my business and not feel like I am losing out because of that "end game" that is waiting for me. I can actually have a life *gasp*!
More to come as I "discuss" your post in depth on the next subject. And btw posting everytime that "this is not a flame" does not necessarily make it so, and your attempt to discuss these matters are more like baiting in the ole EQ fashion if I have ever seen so. More to come, and until next time.............
For me, the journey is not worth taking due to the cramped and claustrophobic feeling that in my view emanates from this game. The splendour of Middle Earth is not here, it feels like a miniature themepark with model buildings and areas along with mute and stunned actors playing the main characters. At least that's my feeling when I sat down with the game.
You're right in that the game doesn't have end game content worth doing and you're also right that where other games have a huge amount of things to grind at end game, Lord of the Rings: Online starts with the grind from level 1. You have to grind out the Epic quest (for all your characters, identical, forced questing) and if you fall behind your friends, the game will actually make it difficult for them to help you (they have to travel to a special location instead of just adventuring with you, they have to leave you to go with you) and they are given so low rewards that you have to hope that people just love the game mechanics (or you) to accept shortcomings like that.
One of the elements in the Lord of the Rings books that really stand out is the working together of our protagonists. Lord of the Rings: Online on the other hand seems to focus on the players going each to their separate room and play there (instances everywhere) only with few quests you have to do group or you're stuck. This makes the Looking For Group chat a constant cry for attention and where you can help others in other games and still get some form of reward, there is really not much to gain here.
Due to these elements in the game design the game has a very low replay value (you have to do exactly the same next time around, doesn't matter what class or race, the epic quest remains the same straightjacket).
Another element that really needs some content in my view is character building. Right now all characters of the same class are identical. There are Deeds/Virtues to GRIND out (this was a really mind-numbing part for me personally, kill an ever-increasing number of mobs, some of them even Elite) but in the end everybody does that and everybody remains the same. Never when I levelled my Hunter to 50 did I ever once think about making another Hunter of a different race because it would be the exact same character once more.
Coming from the Slotting and Power choosing of City of Heroes/Villains, the Talents of World of Warcraft, the Achievements of EverQuest2, the Feats and Multiclassing of Dungeons & Dragons this really felt like such a huge step backwards where instead of trying to get the player involved with their character, they seemed bent on creating a Middle Earth where droves of characters went rampaging around the country side working for Deeds/Titles/Virtues. And since the game punishes pure exploration and freeform adventuring outside quests with extremely few xp being handed out, people would quickly simply start harvesting grey mobs, it was not the challenge Turbine aimed to reward, but the time spent grinding.
Crafting. I thought World of Warcraft had the most silly crafting system until Lord of the Rings: Online proved that it could be dumbed more down. But now you have queues forming in the world to kill this special spawn that drops this special ingredient. In a game that has so much instancing it should be obvious that instances are where these things should drop so that everybody can get a chance instead of only the campers getting a chance. Again in my view a needless grind that serves as nothing but a time sink.
I know this is a game that should be extremely easy and not demand anything on the part of the player apart from subscription but I think they got a little bit carried away here.
The best idea for Lord of the Rings: Online was the lifetime subscription plan, that should generate some much needed positive cash flow to the company right after release when it is most needed.
Too bad that Tolkien enterprises controls this IP, (and rather strictly I might add), so that based on what is allowed and what is not most often we can infer that is what Tolkien himself could have wanted. It might be wise for some people to actually read about the man himself, why he wrote the books, when and where he started writing the books, and the book itself in order to develop a better understanding of the game itself. Rather than argue what the game should be some Eve, WoW, EQ, Vanguard, SWG clone because "they are awesome" arguement.
Apart from the name tags and labels in the game can you honestly say that this game has any Middle Earth feeling. If you remove the labels used (calling Bree let's say Kingsbridge or something and so on) is there anything here that tells you this is Middle Earth.
If it is then can you tell me whether it is the aggressive bears and boars outside the town of Bree (or Knightsbridge) ? Is it the huge spiders that crawl everywhere in the swamp? Is it the banjo playing "Healers" ? Is it the elves that apart from long ears are EXACTLY like humans?
I have read all Tolkiens books including the parts of his letters and diaries that are published. Even then I could not bring myself to say that I could speak for a dead man on what he would want or not, I simply look at the Lord of the Rings books and expect them to be at least partially adhered to outside names in a game called Lord of the Rings: Online.
The "rather strictly looking after the IP" you should be referencing to might be Tolkien Estate. Tolkien Enterprises is the company that bought the license and is now milking it for profits. Sadly outside the influence of Tolkien Estate.
And sadly we see this in every MMO out there including EQ where snakes could kick, SWG dinosaurs and alien mobs, WoW that has bears, wolves, spiders, boars and the only difference is they added demons, space aliens and dinosaurs to the mix which is outside Tolkien lore.
I assume you're joking here?
This is the only game within the AAA tier that has the forced repetitive Mob grinding (into the thousands for some of them) as the sole character building element. Yes, other games allowed you to go on a rampage if you wanted to but it was never forced into the progress of your character like it is here.
Doesn't matter that they didn't add demons, they added gigantic spiders crawling all over the marshlands, it doesn't have to have wings and be wreathed in Hellfire to be breaking the Tolkien lore.
As far as the deer you may be referring to the fact that many of the docile creatures in the game run away when you approach them. Again another unique AI of the game.
Unique AI? Compared to what? In World of Warcraft you have plenty of neutral animals, some of them are skittish and run away, others do not. In Saga of Ryzom you had animals that would respond based on your actions, curious at first, but if you showed violence they would grow apprehensive and flee, or they would change over time if you for instance made an effort to keep the amount of predators down in an area.
Even PacMan had the ghosts being aggressive at first and then if the conditions was changed they would run away from you. I am starting to get the feeling that your experience with computer games and your knowledge of Tolkien's works are very limited although that is only based on what you write, not who you really are.
The uniqueness of the AI in Lord of the Rings: Online is the poor implementation of "anti-cheat" that will repeatedly reset a mob for no apparent reason. This is a huge issue, especially for ranged classes where even on flat land (a road for instance) the mob would sometimes go behind a small rock that would break its pathing and unless you moved to it fast it would reset and you could start all over. Not a big issue for close combat classes but for ranged classes it was obnoxious.
For the first time I can smell the roses and enjoy the ride as I play the game and an enjoyable and leisurely pace. /shrug again - as mentioned above (you're repeating this point too...) what does that have to do with LOTRO? I sat in butcherblock mountains on the beach too and watched the sunset or went to the jungle and enjoyed the scenery and atmosphere. As a priest in EQ i celebrated weddings for guildmates in the most romantic locations. We had fun running drunk over kelethin bridges with level 1 alts, we did guild events where 30 level 5 toons tried to kille a hill giant without swords. I dont see what these things have to do with LOTRO? in fact, there is no point in trying these things in LOTRO - as the game mechanics are not complex enough to allow them.
Bursche
Ok for the next part before I am off to bed for some sleep.
I may be stressing the point by repeating it but considering that people keep asking me the same questions or making the same rebuttals I think it warrants being said more than once. And yet, I consider that not rushing so hurry up and match the power levelers for end game experience, and stopping to actually play the game through to be two separate issues. But that is just me.
And my example of being asked the same questions over and over again is right here, you say "what does that have to do with LOTRO". And I say everthing, because I am playing a story, I can actually enjoy the game as I play through. Nearly every other MMO out there really fails at a story line.
NIce how you bring up EQ concerning this point I make. Ever try to quest in EVERQUEST? I mean half of the quests were broken even in old world, kunark quests broke me from even bothering in that game. And lets not even talk about a story line, there really wasn't. EQ is a mesh mash of hurried expansion development without any congruence of the story line except idea shot from the hip. Omens of War, I mean comon........ fighting girplanes that were nothing but fat blobs with tiny wings......and the whole expansion was dark, personally I hated it. Luclin was even worse.......buggy and incomplete....but I got to fight aliens in a fantasy game.
It is wonderful that you got to play Ever(broken)Quest when it was a social game. Prior to Luclin expansion players where the best, willing to help, buffing in newbie zones, showing peeps around........but then it got MASS marketed. Ever tom, dick and harry with an attitude played and the rush for end game began. Expansion came out faster than light speed, two a year. Old content was bypassed since gear, experience, and people for required grouping had moved on. What a waste, all those expansions and no one even considering doing them. But prior to Luclin is where I first learned of the concept "pay it forward" for when you received help you was expected to pay it in kind to someone else. That is real old school. Have not heard that term in nearly 6 years and you know where I heard it? Yup LoTRO!!! My wife asked in advice how to build a camp fire, and not a single "you suck if you don't know that" response, but someone did respond with me me at the vault and I will give you the components. My wife meet the player and got the needed parts and asked "what do I owe you". The player said "nothing just pay it forward". That reminded me of the good ole days when players actually worked together, helped when they could, and were polite to one another. But once upon a time EQ was a social game with mature players, and moving from game to game I had yet to find it until LoTRO.
As far as your points about EQ and you don't know what they have to do with LoTRO, frankly neither do I but you brought them up. And yes those things could be done in LoTRO if one WANTED too, game mechanics are far ahead of the original EQ and to say otherwise is just ignoring the reality of a 9 year old game versus a game just released last year. Original EQ had no AA, only 8 spell slots, you had to open your spell book to med (sitting to regen mana stearing at your spell book that covered your whole screen, oh ya superior mechanics), and the graphics and mechanics would be horrid to any player today.
And more to respond to tomorrow, but remember you asked for it....................................
Sorry nitefly but I am busy responding to Bursche atm. That is gonna take a couple days at least.
And of course I see you carry on the tradition of quoting my quotes of your quotes expecting me to respond by quoting your quotes of my quotes of your quotes.
If I get the opportunity after I answer Bursche to answer your quotes of my quotes of your quotes I will get right on it.
But then again that is the tactic to basically keep one so busy trying to answer quotes of quotes of quotes that the thread is derailed into a mish mash of reading quotes of quotes of quotes that everyone loses interest and then no one can really decide if they want to play the game or not. And my answer to that is play the 7 day trial and decide for yourself, I for one and glad I did.
Three "why LOTRO sucks" categories stated in this thread are:
1 - LOTRO sucks because it didn't picture Middle Earth as I think it should be presented. (Subjective, your perception is as valid as anybody elses.)
2 - LOTRO sucks because it doesn't have open world PvP. (It is a PvE game.)
3 - LOTRO sucks because it is not groundbreaking and you should play EQ (or something else that is older then LOTRO). (It is a fantasy based MMO's and thus have similarities with others in its category, all cruiser type warships have similarites. Perception of groundbreaking is also subjective.)
Since above three categories seem to be the worst you can say about the game it also explains why so many enjoy playing it. I can live with that.
Sorry nitefly but I am busy responding to Bursche atm. That is gonna take a couple days at least. And of course I see you carry on the tradition of quoting my quotes of your quotes expecting me to respond by quoting your quotes of my quotes of your quotes. If I get the opportunity after I answer Bursche to answer your quotes of my quotes of your quotes I will get right on it. But then again that is the tactic to basically keep one so busy trying to answer quotes of quotes of quotes that the thread is derailed into a mish mash of reading quotes of quotes of quotes that everyone loses interest and then no one can really decide if they want to play the game or not. And my answer to that is play the 7 day trial and decide for yourself, I for one and glad I did.
I have no problem with you having bucketloads of fun. I wish you all the best.
I have five observations of this game that pretty much sums up my view of this game. It isn't absolute truth or anything like that but at least it gives a hint at what the game really contains, not just what the name could suggest it would contain. I will gladly elaborate in PMs if you want more info and find the Turbine website too obtuse about the actual gameplay.
My first statement is this: If you want a good Middle Earth experience it is not found in this game. There are several Neverwinter Nights modules hosted by readers of Tolkien that has more atmosphere and more heart and soul than what is presented here. If you have fond recollections of reading your favourite Tolkien story about hundreds of adventuring elves, hobbits, dwarves, and so on with fire-throwing, banjo-playing protagonists in constant life and death struggle to move around in a condensed realm of intensely overpopulated wilderness then this is the game for you!
My second statement is this: If you want a game that allows you to create your own character with choices along the way, strengths, weaknesses, pros and cons, this is not the game. This game has seven different characters, one for each class. All characters created within the same race will be the same and they will all (and here it isn't even different for each class although you will propably focus more on one form of genocide over another) have to grind out the same incredible amount of mobs to get there. But on the other hand, this will remind you of the books where you get the impression Elves and Dwarves are identical apart from height.
My third statement is this: If you enjoy group play and you like a gameplay that rewards helpfulness and being there for eachother then this game is not for you. In this game you are made to jump through hoops to help a fellow player. Instead of going on an adventure together to somewhere, you have to travel to a special location in order to magically teleport to where your friend is going and then you are further punished by not even receiving any noticable experience, items, or anything else (you might get a few points in your ongoing genocide meter though). This is very much like the books where teamwork is never hinted at, friendship is scoffed at, and vindication is only possible through the endeavours of the individual.
My fourth statement is this: If you want a game with exciting and engaging combat where movement, placement, and thinking is rewarded (or even usable), this is not the game. This game has perfected the "stand there, I stand here, start bashing" gameplay. Just as when you read the books, you read these long paragraphs of the protagonists going into a room, standing side by side, and being attacked by the immobile creatures there, then moving to the next room and so on.
My fifth statement is this: If you are the kind of person who only plays rarely, only plays a single character and who isn't interesting in levelling then this is the game that delivers to you. I will however say that this single-player catering has been done a lot better in more dedicated games, Oblivion, Mass Effect, and others come to ready mind.
WARNING: This post contains irony. And no, that doesn't mean it's a bit like iron.
Three "why LOTRO sucks" categories stated in this thread are: 1 - LOTRO sucks because it didn't picture Middle Earth as I think it should be presented. (Subjective, your perception is as valid as anybody elses.) 2 - LOTRO sucks because it doesn't have open world PvP. (It is a PvE game.) 3 - LOTRO sucks because it is not groundbreaking and you should play EQ (or something else that is older then LOTRO). (It is a fantasy based MMO's and thus have similarities with others in its category, all cruiser type warships have similarites. Perception of groundbreaking is also subjective.)
Since above three categories seem to be the worst you can say about the game it also explains why so many enjoy playing it. I can live with that.
1) I think the problem is more that the game doesn't represent the lore that is in the books the game gets its name from. I don't think people have a personal Middle Earth they would want others to follow. Just follow the books and all is fine.
Use the map made by Tolkien for one thing, the world is huge, make the game world huge.
There isn't massive amounts of aggressive beasts everywhere in the books, let the game world reflect this.
There isn't banjo playing healers in the books, don't include them in the game world.
The easy answer is this: It is a game, there has to be changes. Well, then the obvious answer to that is: There has to be income for a company, it is easier to generate that with a well-known IP on top of a randomly selected gameplay elements from other games under new labels. Both may be true, but it doesn't make the game any more akin to the litterary source material.
Comments
I dont know, the only trolling i see in this thread is by some feared fanboy who is worried someoen could throw mud on his beloved precious.
I respect LOTRO for what it is and thats not much.
LOTRO has 2 innovative elements for me that bring the MMO genre forward.
a) trying the concept of interactive story telling.
b) the fun music system.
In many other aspects it just disappointed me. In some cases its a true step backwards. That begins when running through another character causes no collision. It feels so ugly when ur used to games with "solid" models. And it ends when you realise that there are almost no queststs that demand a decission to be made which causes a consequence for your toon other than a reward.
The oh so celebrated graphics is only good as long as you dont watch any animation.
Why did they even bother with PvMP? Why waste resources for a side game that has no influence on the story or the world at all?
And you applaude they fix bugs quickly? I think they are rather slow with it, the auction house bug was in for weeks. I also found it very frustrating that EU players - altho paying more than the US players are treated second class. Loads and loads of disadvantages compared to the US servers. Most annoying is that the EU players have no access to the Lore Book yet almost 1 year after release. (Or is that fixed now?)
LOTRO is a simplified WoW clone with a niche audience. If it was a good MMO with that license you could read "2 MILLION SUBSCRIPTIONS NOW!" - "3 MILLION SUBSCRIPTIONS NOW" everywhere over the net. But its not a good MMO its only a good license hiding behind nice landscape graphics.
Call it trolling but this thread discusses the downsides of LOTRO - which can clearly be seen when reading the title of the thread - if you disagree, why do you even bother to troll this thread?
Bursche.
Well, we disagree with disagreement. That being said, yes, all fantasy themed, PvE orinted games have similarities. After all, WoW was called watered down EQ etc.
I like LOTRO but I doubt there ever will be any game that can be called the BEST game, depends on preferences.
What is constantly repeated by naysayers is that LOTRO isn't ZOMFG amazing success with gazillion of subscribers. And since it is not a WoW killer it must be a bad game and I disagree with that logic. Each to its own though.
I agree with you Bursche but you forgot one thing what makes mockery of LOTR title and thats maps. I never ever seen in any MMO with monthly sub such a ugly drown maps. Whole map system is a joke.
I wouldn't say anything if there is at least some options so that we can put our own markers but no its unbelievable i can stand on some position and look at the map and its just unrecognizable. Tolkien put some effort and draw maps 60 years ago.
Thanks god for few web sites who can provide us with better maps but cmon why not have it in game.
You mentioned PvMP and its true its stupid but i can understand that probably people who like LOTRO dont like to see any kind of PvP but whats wrong with Housing why is this huge part of the game empty and you all rpgers asked for it.
One more thing, i cant understand why no one use this in game system to create fellowship. Its very hard to find decent group, most of the time impossible. This could be because there is not enough people in game.
I couldn't believe when i started conversation how many high levels 40+ never hear about coordinates and how you can use them in LOTRO.
I'm not exactly happy with this game and talking about community in LOTRO its most immature community from all games i ever tried. Sometimes i have a feeling that its all 10y old around me.
I agree on that it has nice landscapes but toon animations looks like they came from 80' so again it ruins overall impression about graphics in this game.
I've also tried very hard to like LotRO. The graphics were incredible. I liked the diversity of quests from combat to non-combat. I enjoyed the immersion factor, even the music and environments were nicely done. But, I too, found myself totally bored with the game. I guess it comes down to my own personal taste.
I'm simply tired of linear MMOs. I'm tired of having to commit wilderness animal genocide just to level up. I'm tired of mobs conveniently placed all over the place just so I don't have to be bothered walking more than five feet to kill something. I'm tired of NPCs who do nothing but stand or dance in place ad infinitum. Give me a living & breathing world for once. The Shire is a beautiful place to start the game in...but it is dead and lifeless. It is Disneyland in a video game with all of its fake buildings and costumed characters who do nothing more than just smile and give you a graphical menu when you click on them. I want more than this, especially for a Middle Earth world.
I'm not blaming Turbine or LotRO or accusing them of making a bad game for not doing it the way I want it to be. For what they've done, the game is great. But, if you're like me who has spent years playing MMOs, this kind of linear game has simply become boring.
Currently playing: No MMOs. They all suck.
After playing EQ, WoW, SWG, Guild Wars, DAoC, LoTRO and a couple more I have forgotten about I think there is a strong possibility of the maturity level you are comparing LoTRO as to other games is quite mistaken. I am sure you may have experienced immaturity in the game, for in sneaks into all games either a lot or a little. But to compare it as an over extending amount of the player base at this time is just wrong. MOST, if not nearly all, of the player base is of the more mature player type. Best example of this is watch the advice channel when someone asks a question, and my proof is that is not filled with constant babbling about Chuck Norris, or how the person that asked such a stupid question clearly sucks at this game, or their epeen (err I mean gear) is totally huge and it RoXXers.
For the first time in 7 years I can play an MMO that I don't feel I have to log and and rush to level because all of the action is in the "end game".
For the first time I can smell the roses and enjoy the ride as I play the game and an enjoyable and leisurely pace.
I can ask questions about the game in the advice channel and OMGawdz get real answers.
I can play a game that actually honors the originators view of the world they created rather than butcher it for the good of a few hardcores to maximize gameplay. And I am reading Lord of the Rings yet again while I play the story through, and I can actually relate even more to the maps, mathom houses, the shire, etc. because of it.
I can play a game that is visually pleasing to my eye.
I can play a game that doesn't all of the sudden incorporate dinosaurs, space aliens, and demons to further a story line.
I can enjoy all five factors of MMO gaming at this time, crafting, questing, soloing, grouping, and raiding. And each is just as rewarding and proficient as the other.
I can enjoy combat mechanics that are more true to fantasy as Tolkien provided us than the giant fire ball, ice coment, corruption illusion of other games.
Perhaps the reason some people get bored so easily with LoTRO is because effectively Turbine has taken the "carrot on a stick" away and replaced it with our own curious drive and need to explore the fantasy.
Maybe in time, after the expansion or two, then it can match in playability of games like WoW or EQ2...that is barring the new games do not steal the thunder (WotlLK, WAR, AoC), and then people who left WoW for something new, make their way back to WoW or decide to try something new.
Later
After playing EQ, WoW, SWG, Guild Wars, DAoC, LoTRO and a couple more I have forgotten about I think there is a strong possibility of the maturity level you are comparing LoTRO as to other games is quite mistaken. I am sure you may have experienced immaturity in the game, for in sneaks into all games either a lot or a little. But to compare it as an over extending amount of the player base at this time is just wrong. MOST, if not nearly all, of the player base is of the more mature player type. Best example of this is watch the advice channel when someone asks a question, and my proof is that is not filled with constant babbling about Chuck Norris, or how the person that asked such a stupid question clearly sucks at this game, or their epeen (err I mean gear) is totally huge and it RoXXers.
For the first time in 7 years I can play an MMO that I don't feel I have to log and and rush to level because all of the action is in the "end game".
For the first time I can smell the roses and enjoy the ride as I play the game and an enjoyable and leisurely pace.
I can ask questions about the game in the advice channel and OMGawdz get real answers.
I can play a game that actually honors the originators view of the world they created rather than butcher it for the good of a few hardcores to maximize gameplay. And I am reading Lord of the Rings yet again while I play the story through, and I can actually relate even more to the maps, mathom houses, the shire, etc. because of it.
I can play a game that is visually pleasing to my eye.
I can play a game that doesn't all of the sudden incorporate dinosaurs, space aliens, and demons to further a story line.
I can enjoy all five factors of MMO gaming at this time, crafting, questing, soloing, grouping, and raiding. And each is just as rewarding and proficient as the other.
I can enjoy combat mechanics that are more true to fantasy as Tolkien provided us than the giant fire ball, ice coment, corruption illusion of other games.
Perhaps the reason some people get bored so easily with LoTRO is because effectively Turbine has taken the "carrot on a stick" away and replaced it with our own curious drive and need to explore the fantasy.
Well said!And as some other poster said... "the title of the thread"... yes, you are correct.
"Great game..." it's in the title of this very thread.
The discussion is why a great game does not appeal to all.
Because we are all individuals and have different opinions of what is fun, and what isn't. Those that find the game fun are playing it... those that don't have moved on (although some do seem to keep coming back on a regular basis... heh).
Don't be upset at us that do find the game fun, just because you didn't. It's not our fault that you didn't find it fun. Hopefully there will be a game out soon that you do find fun. Good luck!
Excellent, well spoken post.
I actually feel bad that I no longer play this beautiful game. Being a huge Tolkien fan only makes me feel more obligated. But... No matter how many times I resub (was formally a founder), I get bored and uninspired and hence, leave it again.
I've given it quite a bit of thought. For me, I believe it's the "bland" classes that finally drove me away. This is the only game I've ever played where I can't find an alt character to get excited about. The classes are what's fundamentally wrong with this game.
Sad in a way. The game is beautiful and Turbine has done a wonderful job creating Tolkien's world for us all to enjoy.
But... I just can't get past those lackluster classes.
I have almost the exact opposite feeling with the classes in LoTRo. For me they are some of the most fun classes I've ever playing in a MMO (still liked my Ranger/Pistoleer/Creature-Handler from SWG the best though).
For Minstrel I've never played a main-healer that had such a wide variety of play-style available. I can play him as a strictly main-healer only with buffing and healing. I can play him as a Soloing dps character with tremendous survivability. I can play him as a group healer/dps/high BPE off-tank. The ease in switching between these roles is just a matter of swapping out some gear choices and some traits to maximize whatever role I wish to fill.
For Lore-Master it most closely resembles the old-EQ Enchanter class. His choices of which pet to use for the situation increases as he levels. He can heal my party to keep them alive (and even rez them) if a Minstrel is not available. He can buff myself and party as well as de-buff the mobs through a variety of spells. He can steal power from mobs and then give it to other party members. He can cast a wide variety of AoE spells to devastating effect on grouping mobs. He can stun almost any mob in the game for crowd control. Yes, Lore-Master is definitely the class to play if you want an endless bounty of options available for every single encounter.
Those are the 2 classes I've played the most. I also have alts in Burglar, Guardian, and Hunter. So, far I've enjoyed all the classes I've tried, but have been so enthralled with my main 2 that I haven't had time to level up the others yet.
Perhaps some others can share what they like from the other classes. I do think that may be a part of why some find LoTRo thoroughly enjoyable and others just so-so. If the classes do not inspire you to want to keep playing then yeah, I could see why the game wouldn't be all that fun. For me though... the classes are a large part of what I really like about the game.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
For me that broke the sense of community in the game. It would often degenerate into meaningless debacle concerning what Tolkien might or might not have thought about a given game mechanic instead of acknowledging that it is a license, a hook to lure in the customers bought and paid for by Turbine, nothing less, nothing more.
Lord of the Rings: Online was a strange experience for me. It looked nice at first, I liked the starting equipment, although I soon found out that everybody would look the same within the (few) classes. This might get better now with the new wardrobe system but I can't see it helping with the other (in my view) major flaws in this game.
The instancing is too great in this game which makes the community splintered and very much removed from eachother. Housing is instanced (weird choice for the number one roleplaying hub it could be if placed in the world), major quests are instanced, key buildings are instanced and so and so forth. It makes for a disruptive gaming experience and it creates a segregated removed feel to the entire game world.
The main quest (Epic Quest) would have been a great implementation in a single player game, setting the player apart in the world, but in a MMO it simply becomes the forced track for you, all your friends, and all your combined alts. With random parts interspersed that cannot be tackled unless you're vastly higher level or you can find a group. Others helping you solve something they have already solved will not gain any sort of reward worth mentioning creating a series of possible stops for the casual player. In my personal opinion this is a weak design decision.
Character generation is almost non-existing in this game. You get Virtues for slaughtering an ever increasing amount of mobs. This is without a doubt the most incredibly lazy character progress mechanic ever devised and forces a nearly mindless grind since most players I have seen simply start killing grey mobs for their Virtues. This is a simple numbers game, you just have to kill more and more....
Even with the above "mechanic" (I think "time sink" would be more accurate but that's a personal point of view) you still find that all characters of the same Class are so alike that I have yet to find a player that has levelled for instance two Hunters to level 50. The Character apart from race would be identical. Propably right down to the gear.
The 'Lord of the Rings' books featured a fantastic journey through a mystical realm filled with interesting characters. The game Lord of the Rings: Online is placed in the smallest MMO World in a AAA game released in the last 3 years. On top of that it is filled with an extreme amount of hostile creatures that makes the world feel like the shooting tent at a carnival for me. And it removes the sense of adventure, excitement, exploration and discovery that so filled me when reading the books something that I really think was a mistake to make.
The User Interface is standard EQ2/WoW except for the fact that there is a slight delay from when you push your hotkey until your character reacts. This is something you learn to live with but it never really becomes intuitive to me. That is a very personal element, other people will have other experiences I am sure.
The animations on the other hand are (for the NPCs) more or less non-existant, the life and color of the various regions in the books is replaced by gaunt inactivity in the game and the PCs look jerky, erratic, uncoordinated with your clicks and generally combat ends up being "You stand in my little spot, you stand in yours and we exchange blows until one of us is dead". This is also needed since Lord of the Rings: Online has the most over-zealous "Anti-Cheat" detection in any game I have played, often resetting mobs for no apparent reason only for you to later find that when a single party member stands on a specific series of pixels in a specific location, the mob will reset.
The small world, the banjo playing minstrels, the identical heroes (both in looks and skills), the lack of difference between the various races, the lack-lustre NPCs, the overly present and aggressive bears, boars, wolves, deers (I kid you not), spiders, and so on removes the feeling of Middle Earth that the character creation screen conjures up and the game itself, although beautiful, saps me of any ambition I might have to keep playing it.
I played 3 months, and like the OP I went back later on. I have a single level 50 character (a Hunter) but she will remain like that, no matter how high they set the level cap in their next expansion. For me Lord of the Rings and Middle Earth could have been incredible. What Turbine released was in my eyes not incredible but it had the best character creation screen of any game I have ever played.
For me that broke the sense of community in the game. It would often degenerate into meaningless debacle concerning what Tolkien might or might not have thought about a given game mechanic instead of acknowledging that it is a license, a hook to lure in the customers bought and paid for by Turbine, nothing less, nothing more.
Too bad that Tolkien enterprises controls this IP, (and rather strictly I might add), so that based on what is allowed and what is not most often we can infer that is what Tolkien himself could have wanted. It might be wise for some people to actually read about the man himself, why he wrote the books, when and where he started writing the books, and the book itself in order to develop a better understanding of the game itself. Rather than argue what the game should be some Eve, WoW, EQ, Vanguard, SWG clone because "they are awesome" arguement.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
Interesting discussion going on. A thread with minimal flaming. Is it a reflection of the maturity and civility ruling in the LOTRo community? :-)
Dragonoak, yes yes I share your feeling. I love the Tolkien lore. I spent a lot of time walking around the map (duo or trio) with my kin mates. We were crazy explorers. We want to go everywhere around the map and enjoy the views. We actually got killed many times watching and taking screen shots while ignoring the chasing giants or trolls. With knowledge of the original Tolkien lore, we were actually sometimes disappointed when we hit a locked gate along the open country paths, knowing that it will open up to another map, we are eager to keep moving. For those who say there is no exploration in this game, try to walk around slowly and enjoy the details as we did. The world is small now, yes, but its rich in details, and more enjoyable than the huge vast but empty map of VG (no intention to start a fight with VG fans).
Someone said that the map is filled with too many mobs. Someone else could also said that the world is too sparse, with nothing to react to. I personally do not mind meeting too many mobs, so long as they do not hinder our sense of exploration. After all, we should expect to die exploring Misty Mountains or the Angmar regions. Given the "trait" grinds, we do need some mobs to kill to get the traits done, for so many active trait seekers.
Yes I love the classes. Minstrel is a hugely fun class, one of my most popular 5. Always summoned for helegrod. Minstrel can be played solo, group, duo, DPS, healer, combo. Hunter is great fun too, and without the WoW bear pet, Hunters in LOTRo need to think to survive. Blah blah blah, enough repetition.
I actually have this strange thought. I should stay away from LOTRo for a bit longer, and when a larger chunk of ME is implemented, I will go back and explore the world again. That will be fun. Talking about it already wakes up some of the dead cells in my brain. Well I need not rush to return, I have Lifetime access. All my friends are Lifetimers too.
After playing EQ, WoW, SWG, Guild Wars, DAoC, LoTRO and a couple more I have forgotten about I think there is a strong possibility of the maturity level you are comparing LoTRO as to other games is quite mistaken. I am sure you may have experienced immaturity in the game, for in sneaks into all games either a lot or a little. But to compare it as an over extending amount of the player base at this time is just wrong. MOST, if not nearly all, of the player base is of the more mature player type. Best example of this is watch the advice channel when someone asks a question, and my proof is that is not filled with constant babbling about Chuck Norris, or how the person that asked such a stupid question clearly sucks at this game, or their epeen (err I mean gear) is totally huge and it RoXXers.
I will comment on this later - since your repeat it for lack of other points.
For the first time in 7 years I can play an MMO that I don't feel I have to log and and rush to level because all of the action is in the "end game".
What does this have to do with LOTRO? I did that in every MMO i played? /shrug with the difference: In other MMO's there was an end game waiting for me. In LOTRO i am forced to wait for the next book updates or expansion.
For the first time I can smell the roses and enjoy the ride as I play the game and an enjoyable and leisurely pace.
/shrug again - as mentioned above (you're repeating this point too...) what does that have to do with LOTRO? I sat in butcherblock mountains on the beach too and watched the sunset or went to the jungle and enjoyed the scenery and atmosphere. As a priest in EQ i celebrated weddings for guildmates in the most romantic locations. We had fun running drunk over kelethin bridges with level 1 alts, we did guild events where 30 level 5 toons tried to kille a hill giant without swords. I dont see what these things have to do with LOTRO? in fact, there is no point in trying these things in LOTRO - as the game mechanics are not complex enough to allow them.
I can ask questions about the game in the advice channel and OMGawdz get real answers.
I found it the opposite - the game helps you so much in the first 20 levels that most questions during this period where really stupid. Questgivers standing on the green path and someone asking where is the green path. People realised quick that the guy asking the question didnt bother to read the quest text at all - not even the yellow part and exactly the flaming down you describe happened. It then happened too when questions came that had a right to be asked (for really difficult to find things). I have witnessed this behaviour on Belegear in May 2007.
I can play a game that actually honors the originators view of the world they created rather than butcher it for the good of a few hardcores to maximize gameplay. And I am reading Lord of the Rings yet again while I play the story through, and I can actually relate even more to the maps, mathom houses, the shire, etc. because of it.
You can? Where did Tolkien write that 95% of middle earth inhabitants are adventurers, where did he write that hobbits swarmed middle earth as powerful guardians and minstrells? Where in the books stands that almost everyone in middle earth killed quadzillions of animals to become a hero? Where are mosquitos mentioned that are bigger than a dwarf? Again, for me it was the opposite - the lore is bent and backstabbed for the sake of MMO playability every 2 inchs. There isnt much left than names that sound familiar to a book i once read and loved or a movie i seen in the cinema.
I can play a game that is visually pleasing to my eye.
That of course is a matter of taste. And i will not disagree here. LOTRO is pleasing the eye if you go first person view and stand next to a lake in nice weather. Lets just not look at animations or how trees jump from left to right while moving. If i ever gona write a cartoon story for my kids the pictures will come from LOTRO.
I can play a game that doesn't all of the sudden incorporate dinosaurs, space aliens, and demons to further a story line.
No you play a game where the fantasy is limitted to yet another balrog fight and yet another balrog fight and more balrog fights will come. We're at 2 now right? or is 2nd Balrog introduced with Moria?
I can enjoy all five factors of MMO gaming at this time, crafting, questing, soloing, grouping, and raiding. And each is just as rewarding and proficient as the other.
Crafting? You call it crafting to watch a progression bar go from left to right and take your reward?
Questing? You call it questing to run from one landmark to the next (clearly given on your map) where no decission has any consequence other than a reward?
Soloing? My burglar did a lvl 39 GROUP quest solo when he was 29 and got an awesome dirk for it. Made the following quests very easy.
Grouping? most FFA groups are just hack&slash where you dont find any player skill as in 80% of LOTRO no skill is demanded so nobody bothered to achieve play skills. Kinship groups are fun for the chit chat tho. But what does that have to do with LOTRO? Put me in a voice chat with these people and i have fun too.
Raiding? see grouping.
I can enjoy combat mechanics that are more true to fantasy as Tolkien provided us than the giant fire ball, ice coment, corruption illusion of other games.
The combat system is stolen together from other games, basically WoW and EQ2. That lotro has no ice commets or giant fire balls is probably for the same reason why DAoC has no machine guns. The setting. By the way, the thing a loremaster throws through the air looks damn close to an ice commet. Having a raven fight for you is - umm... yeah. And that in the heat of battle, when the orc bashes my helm i just SCREAM at him or even better: take my guitar out and play a few tunes to KILL him... yes wonderful and real feel of battle - NOT.
Perhaps the reason some people get bored so easily with LoTRO is because effectively Turbine has taken the "carrot on a stick" away and replaced it with our own curious drive and need to explore the fantasy.
And thats the opposite for me too: Turbine took away any possibility to dream the fantasy further than what is allowed by the lore, thats why you dont fight Gods in LOTRO but yet another Balrog. There will be no flying mounts for a long time because thats not in the lore. Turbine's carrot on the stick is the next book expansion. Because before its out you have nothing to do.
The above comments are not meant as flaming, i just wanted to share my viewpoint on the given remarks. It surprised me so much that you praise things in LOTRO that really are killers for me. If you had praised the music system or the awesome atmosphere of the first 15 levels, if you had praised that the fear thing when your screen gets darker and darker and your char starts to cover and duck is amazing i would have agreed. If you had said how lovely and detailed the shire and other places are drawn, i would have agreed - but that someone praises the most weak parts of this game beyond believe is really a surprise to me
But everyone is entitled to their opinion, so of course if you enjoy all these points its your full right to do so
no flaming intended.
Bursche
...........Sigh
Rather than respond in the old EQ fashion by quoting your quotes of my quotes so we can pick apart one anothers long winded quotes, let me just say one mans junk is another man's treasure.
I posted reason why the game appeals to me, in rebuttal to the title of this thread. And your response is to pick apart my reasons I love the game.
EQ is still going, maybe you can pick up where you left off.
well if you cant accept your arguments to be discussed, perhaps you should not put them on the plate.
As I said, i just wanted to share my viewpoint since yours was so surprising to me. I find it kind of intresting that these are your pro arguments for this game altho you state that you know the old school MMO's too. Why did you play MMO's for 7 years if you found them so tedious and umm... unrewarding? I wouldnt even have sticked to the genre - let alone go to a simplified wannabe MMO to praise it as the cream of MMO design.
I have thought alot about lotro from early beta on and why they took the most famous fantasy license to copy&paste a cheap simplified niche MMO together instead of making a genre revolution to appeal to the genre fans. They had the chance to do that with this license - they didnt take the chance.
The product that came out has few pro's - i have given credit to those already and wont repeat them. But for the genre in generall its a setback and a missed chance. And thats the disappointing part of the story.
Once again: no flamin intended
im just discussing away and i enjoy reading your posts actually - as i always enjoy to learn other viewpoints in a discussion.
Bursche
So let me take this response to begin with, most every other MMO on the market today is all about the end game. I am tired of the end game. By the time everyone spends months and months to level, they tend to get very self absorbed, crabby, and obnoxious at the end game. Raiding the same boss 100 times to get that one single drop everyone needs, that drops 1 out of 100 times, has gotten very old.
What does it have to do with LOTRO? You really need to ask? Ok let me say it again, the game is about the story line, it is designed and developed to actually participate, enjoy, and play it out one part at a time. I don't have to feel like I am in a rush, I can actually enjoy the game with my wife and those I meet along the way, not rushing to raid the same boss 100 times. Now I am sure you will counter each and every point, since you are old school, and EQ taught you that this is what the forums is all about, but since I have a long debacle of your post to respond too, I will come back to it and only it, not spend my time debating every explanation I give.
"I did that in every MMO I played" not sure if you are telling me you did that, and if so gratz, I don't want to anymore. If it is a question, yes the games I played were designed as a end game rush. It was all about the raiding and the end game content, even so much that the gear you got on the way was pure crap. And again I am tired of that kind of gaming.
For you I am glad it is all about the rush and the epeeners, err I mean raiders at the end game waiting for you to raid that same boss 100 times for so you can gear up for the next boss you need to raid 100 times for the next boss. See how old it gets?
And I am sorry you feel so let down having to wait for the next book or expansion. But there are a ton of games designed for that end game that is waiting for you to include EQ and the five others that are there waiting. But for me the next book, expansion, area are part of the excitement, and knowing I will have more waiting for me for several years to come. I can actually take a break from a game, travel, see friends, and work on my business and not feel like I am losing out because of that "end game" that is waiting for me. I can actually have a life *gasp*!
More to come as I "discuss" your post in depth on the next subject. And btw posting everytime that "this is not a flame" does not necessarily make it so, and your attempt to discuss these matters are more like baiting in the ole EQ fashion if I have ever seen so. More to come, and until next time.............
To DragonOak: Enjoy your journey.
For me, the journey is not worth taking due to the cramped and claustrophobic feeling that in my view emanates from this game. The splendour of Middle Earth is not here, it feels like a miniature themepark with model buildings and areas along with mute and stunned actors playing the main characters. At least that's my feeling when I sat down with the game.
You're right in that the game doesn't have end game content worth doing and you're also right that where other games have a huge amount of things to grind at end game, Lord of the Rings: Online starts with the grind from level 1. You have to grind out the Epic quest (for all your characters, identical, forced questing) and if you fall behind your friends, the game will actually make it difficult for them to help you (they have to travel to a special location instead of just adventuring with you, they have to leave you to go with you) and they are given so low rewards that you have to hope that people just love the game mechanics (or you) to accept shortcomings like that.
One of the elements in the Lord of the Rings books that really stand out is the working together of our protagonists. Lord of the Rings: Online on the other hand seems to focus on the players going each to their separate room and play there (instances everywhere) only with few quests you have to do group or you're stuck. This makes the Looking For Group chat a constant cry for attention and where you can help others in other games and still get some form of reward, there is really not much to gain here.
Due to these elements in the game design the game has a very low replay value (you have to do exactly the same next time around, doesn't matter what class or race, the epic quest remains the same straightjacket).
Another element that really needs some content in my view is character building. Right now all characters of the same class are identical. There are Deeds/Virtues to GRIND out (this was a really mind-numbing part for me personally, kill an ever-increasing number of mobs, some of them even Elite) but in the end everybody does that and everybody remains the same. Never when I levelled my Hunter to 50 did I ever once think about making another Hunter of a different race because it would be the exact same character once more.
Coming from the Slotting and Power choosing of City of Heroes/Villains, the Talents of World of Warcraft, the Achievements of EverQuest2, the Feats and Multiclassing of Dungeons & Dragons this really felt like such a huge step backwards where instead of trying to get the player involved with their character, they seemed bent on creating a Middle Earth where droves of characters went rampaging around the country side working for Deeds/Titles/Virtues. And since the game punishes pure exploration and freeform adventuring outside quests with extremely few xp being handed out, people would quickly simply start harvesting grey mobs, it was not the challenge Turbine aimed to reward, but the time spent grinding.
Crafting. I thought World of Warcraft had the most silly crafting system until Lord of the Rings: Online proved that it could be dumbed more down. But now you have queues forming in the world to kill this special spawn that drops this special ingredient. In a game that has so much instancing it should be obvious that instances are where these things should drop so that everybody can get a chance instead of only the campers getting a chance. Again in my view a needless grind that serves as nothing but a time sink.
I know this is a game that should be extremely easy and not demand anything on the part of the player apart from subscription but I think they got a little bit carried away here.
The best idea for Lord of the Rings: Online was the lifetime subscription plan, that should generate some much needed positive cash flow to the company right after release when it is most needed.
If it is then can you tell me whether it is the aggressive bears and boars outside the town of Bree (or Knightsbridge) ? Is it the huge spiders that crawl everywhere in the swamp? Is it the banjo playing "Healers" ? Is it the elves that apart from long ears are EXACTLY like humans?
I have read all Tolkiens books including the parts of his letters and diaries that are published. Even then I could not bring myself to say that I could speak for a dead man on what he would want or not, I simply look at the Lord of the Rings books and expect them to be at least partially adhered to outside names in a game called Lord of the Rings: Online.
The "rather strictly looking after the IP" you should be referencing to might be Tolkien Estate. Tolkien Enterprises is the company that bought the license and is now milking it for profits. Sadly outside the influence of Tolkien Estate.
I assume you're joking here?
This is the only game within the AAA tier that has the forced repetitive Mob grinding (into the thousands for some of them) as the sole character building element. Yes, other games allowed you to go on a rampage if you wanted to but it was never forced into the progress of your character like it is here.
Doesn't matter that they didn't add demons, they added gigantic spiders crawling all over the marshlands, it doesn't have to have wings and be wreathed in Hellfire to be breaking the Tolkien lore. Unique AI? Compared to what? In World of Warcraft you have plenty of neutral animals, some of them are skittish and run away, others do not. In Saga of Ryzom you had animals that would respond based on your actions, curious at first, but if you showed violence they would grow apprehensive and flee, or they would change over time if you for instance made an effort to keep the amount of predators down in an area.
Even PacMan had the ghosts being aggressive at first and then if the conditions was changed they would run away from you. I am starting to get the feeling that your experience with computer games and your knowledge of Tolkien's works are very limited although that is only based on what you write, not who you really are.
The uniqueness of the AI in Lord of the Rings: Online is the poor implementation of "anti-cheat" that will repeatedly reset a mob for no apparent reason. This is a huge issue, especially for ranged classes where even on flat land (a road for instance) the mob would sometimes go behind a small rock that would break its pathing and unless you moved to it fast it would reset and you could start all over. Not a big issue for close combat classes but for ranged classes it was obnoxious.
Bursche
Ok for the next part before I am off to bed for some sleep.
I may be stressing the point by repeating it but considering that people keep asking me the same questions or making the same rebuttals I think it warrants being said more than once. And yet, I consider that not rushing so hurry up and match the power levelers for end game experience, and stopping to actually play the game through to be two separate issues. But that is just me.
And my example of being asked the same questions over and over again is right here, you say "what does that have to do with LOTRO". And I say everthing, because I am playing a story, I can actually enjoy the game as I play through. Nearly every other MMO out there really fails at a story line.
NIce how you bring up EQ concerning this point I make. Ever try to quest in EVERQUEST? I mean half of the quests were broken even in old world, kunark quests broke me from even bothering in that game. And lets not even talk about a story line, there really wasn't. EQ is a mesh mash of hurried expansion development without any congruence of the story line except idea shot from the hip. Omens of War, I mean comon........ fighting girplanes that were nothing but fat blobs with tiny wings......and the whole expansion was dark, personally I hated it. Luclin was even worse.......buggy and incomplete....but I got to fight aliens in a fantasy game.
It is wonderful that you got to play Ever(broken)Quest when it was a social game. Prior to Luclin expansion players where the best, willing to help, buffing in newbie zones, showing peeps around........but then it got MASS marketed. Ever tom, dick and harry with an attitude played and the rush for end game began. Expansion came out faster than light speed, two a year. Old content was bypassed since gear, experience, and people for required grouping had moved on. What a waste, all those expansions and no one even considering doing them. But prior to Luclin is where I first learned of the concept "pay it forward" for when you received help you was expected to pay it in kind to someone else. That is real old school. Have not heard that term in nearly 6 years and you know where I heard it? Yup LoTRO!!! My wife asked in advice how to build a camp fire, and not a single "you suck if you don't know that" response, but someone did respond with me me at the vault and I will give you the components. My wife meet the player and got the needed parts and asked "what do I owe you". The player said "nothing just pay it forward". That reminded me of the good ole days when players actually worked together, helped when they could, and were polite to one another. But once upon a time EQ was a social game with mature players, and moving from game to game I had yet to find it until LoTRO.
As far as your points about EQ and you don't know what they have to do with LoTRO, frankly neither do I but you brought them up. And yes those things could be done in LoTRO if one WANTED too, game mechanics are far ahead of the original EQ and to say otherwise is just ignoring the reality of a 9 year old game versus a game just released last year. Original EQ had no AA, only 8 spell slots, you had to open your spell book to med (sitting to regen mana stearing at your spell book that covered your whole screen, oh ya superior mechanics), and the graphics and mechanics would be horrid to any player today.
And more to respond to tomorrow, but remember you asked for it....................................
Sorry nitefly but I am busy responding to Bursche atm. That is gonna take a couple days at least.
And of course I see you carry on the tradition of quoting my quotes of your quotes expecting me to respond by quoting your quotes of my quotes of your quotes.
If I get the opportunity after I answer Bursche to answer your quotes of my quotes of your quotes I will get right on it.
But then again that is the tactic to basically keep one so busy trying to answer quotes of quotes of quotes that the thread is derailed into a mish mash of reading quotes of quotes of quotes that everyone loses interest and then no one can really decide if they want to play the game or not. And my answer to that is play the 7 day trial and decide for yourself, I for one and glad I did.
Three "why LOTRO sucks" categories stated in this thread are:
1 - LOTRO sucks because it didn't picture Middle Earth as I think it should be presented. (Subjective, your perception is as valid as anybody elses.)
2 - LOTRO sucks because it doesn't have open world PvP. (It is a PvE game.)
3 - LOTRO sucks because it is not groundbreaking and you should play EQ (or something else that is older then LOTRO). (It is a fantasy based MMO's and thus have similarities with others in its category, all cruiser type warships have similarites. Perception of groundbreaking is also subjective.)
Since above three categories seem to be the worst you can say about the game it also explains why so many enjoy playing it. I can live with that.
I have no problem with you having bucketloads of fun. I wish you all the best.
I have five observations of this game that pretty much sums up my view of this game. It isn't absolute truth or anything like that but at least it gives a hint at what the game really contains, not just what the name could suggest it would contain. I will gladly elaborate in PMs if you want more info and find the Turbine website too obtuse about the actual gameplay.
My first statement is this: If you want a good Middle Earth experience it is not found in this game. There are several Neverwinter Nights modules hosted by readers of Tolkien that has more atmosphere and more heart and soul than what is presented here. If you have fond recollections of reading your favourite Tolkien story about hundreds of adventuring elves, hobbits, dwarves, and so on with fire-throwing, banjo-playing protagonists in constant life and death struggle to move around in a condensed realm of intensely overpopulated wilderness then this is the game for you!
My second statement is this: If you want a game that allows you to create your own character with choices along the way, strengths, weaknesses, pros and cons, this is not the game. This game has seven different characters, one for each class. All characters created within the same race will be the same and they will all (and here it isn't even different for each class although you will propably focus more on one form of genocide over another) have to grind out the same incredible amount of mobs to get there. But on the other hand, this will remind you of the books where you get the impression Elves and Dwarves are identical apart from height.
My third statement is this: If you enjoy group play and you like a gameplay that rewards helpfulness and being there for eachother then this game is not for you. In this game you are made to jump through hoops to help a fellow player. Instead of going on an adventure together to somewhere, you have to travel to a special location in order to magically teleport to where your friend is going and then you are further punished by not even receiving any noticable experience, items, or anything else (you might get a few points in your ongoing genocide meter though). This is very much like the books where teamwork is never hinted at, friendship is scoffed at, and vindication is only possible through the endeavours of the individual.
My fourth statement is this: If you want a game with exciting and engaging combat where movement, placement, and thinking is rewarded (or even usable), this is not the game. This game has perfected the "stand there, I stand here, start bashing" gameplay. Just as when you read the books, you read these long paragraphs of the protagonists going into a room, standing side by side, and being attacked by the immobile creatures there, then moving to the next room and so on.
My fifth statement is this: If you are the kind of person who only plays rarely, only plays a single character and who isn't interesting in levelling then this is the game that delivers to you. I will however say that this single-player catering has been done a lot better in more dedicated games, Oblivion, Mass Effect, and others come to ready mind.
WARNING: This post contains irony. And no, that doesn't mean it's a bit like iron.
Use the map made by Tolkien for one thing, the world is huge, make the game world huge.
There isn't massive amounts of aggressive beasts everywhere in the books, let the game world reflect this.
There isn't banjo playing healers in the books, don't include them in the game world.
The easy answer is this: It is a game, there has to be changes. Well, then the obvious answer to that is: There has to be income for a company, it is easier to generate that with a well-known IP on top of a randomly selected gameplay elements from other games under new labels. Both may be true, but it doesn't make the game any more akin to the litterary source material.