A MMO that doesn't force one to group. My biggest problem with WoW is that it forces one to group. I don't play WoW anymore because of that. Outside of the dailies all that is left is raiding, for which I don't have the time . This game sounds like it will fit my play style and schedule. I hope you can pull it off and not be forced by one of the game distribution companies to be more "WoW like". If I wanted "WoW like I'd still be playing WoW. I think that might of happened with Vanguard.
CoS sounds better and better.
But this statement about forced grouping is the lamest thing i have ever heard!
If you choose tp play a MMORPG, you choose to group with other people. Same if a go and play fotball, and then whine i have to play with a team. The dont play!
1. No FPS combat. 2. Why look at this game, it is dead. Darkfall here we come. 3.. Grow up developers, we are geting very tired. You think we accept this kind of bollocks ?
You should have read the posts in the beginning:
Originally posted by Guillermo197
We choose to reveal the game to this extent and this early simply because we wanted to get input from the players. We knew we would take a lot of flack from a few people who feel it is necessary to tear down any developer who attempts to do something new. Since the art of the game is only at prototype level, we knew this would also take a lot of heat. However, there are also those who understand that we are doing our best to fight a system where new game design is discouraged as ‘too risky’ to fund. We’re doing this by investing our own time and funds to the project, and have for three years so far. However, the team members are committed to the ideals of this game, and are willing to work to make it a reality for those who would like to try something different in their MMO game. Please be patient and kind, and help us with constructive criticism rather than angry attacks. And remember the words of the Enchantress… ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Flaming a game that is still in early development is lame and stupid. You always have those people. But there is also something called constructive critisism Problem is that many of us have seen so many statements from developers before about their new MMO being revolutionary and something new, who would stand out of the rest of the competition. And in the end only ending up in one big dissapointment, because they couldn't deliver on their promisses. Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is a prime example of that! How many players got shafted by Sigil and ripped off $50,- is just unforgivable. And that still stings on many! One thing that always plays a key role is "budget". Money investment is what desides what you can or cannot do. When you run out of money and thus time you will have to make choices as company. And usually it ends up in either scrapping a lot of promissed features or rush out a terrible bugged / flawed game. All I hope for you guys is that you have enough money to support your claims and promisses and that you can deliver on all your claims. Then I say: GO FOR IT! Cheers
Lately I have to wonder what is it about the 2nd "M" in MMORPG that developers don't get? Mutliplayer does not mean that complete solo play!
You know when you put in mostly solo play you satisfy the kids and turn off everyone else. Problem with kids is they have a very short attention span, hence most subscriptions last only a short time.
Without significant multiplayer features, games like this die on the vine very fast. I am suprised the people funding this have not pointed out that error to the developement team, seems to me you should always examine the problems encounted by previous games and attempt to alleviate them....not compound them.
Respectfully, I have to disagree. I am 38 years old and play a lot of MMO's. My gaming friends are also in their 30's. We play a considerable amount together, but we also all have individual lives and commitments that prevent us from grouping. So we play grouped or solo depending upon the day.
DDO is a game that really focused heavily on grouping. If your argument held true, then DDO would be a phenomenally successful game. Yet despite having great graphics and compelling dungeon adventures, it's only a mediocre success at best. My friends and I stopped playing it because grouping was the only choice that we had, and when we couldn't group up we had no choice but to play something else. There just wasn't any solo content available in DDO with which to occupy our time until our friends came on.
If you have one game that focuses exclusively on group content and another that offers both options, where will you spend your monthly subscription fee? You'll naturally spend it where you can play whenever you want to. DDO learned this the hard way, and has slowly been introducing more solo content to the game.
As a mature player, I want BOTH kinds of play. I want compelling content that I can enjoy with friends, as well as equally compelling content that I can experience when those friends aren't available. The "join a big guild" argument just doesn't hold water, in part because of the fact that we're mature players. We have developed a core group of solid friends that we work well together with. We don't like all the politics and cliques that form with big guilds. So we -- and many other mature players just like us -- will naturally gravitate toward games that cater to both solo and group playstyles.
That being said, I'm not too sure about the use of instancing as it's described here. If the game world has as much space as the real world, yet that space is heavily instanced, it seems to me that the result would be a very dead world. It will be necessary to learn more about this aspect of the game as the devs make that info available. For now, I'm withholding my verdict.
Excuse me, but your statements seem contradictory. On the one hand you advocate letting the player choose between Solo and Group play, and how having the choice is always better than being forced to only one or the other (and I couldn't agree more with you on this issue).
However, on the other hand you state that you think having the choice of entering a fully instanced world, complete with all adventures, towns, NPCs, enemies... everything... or going into the world where there are other MMO players... is bad. So you want to limit the game play choice to one of these, instead of having the game allow you to choose what type of game play you want at that time?
Personally, there are times when other players are just annoying me. I'm on my adventure with my group of friends and some other group of players 'takes' what I'm looking for or need. I have to wait... I hate to wait. What good are these other players to me when I'm already in a group on my adventure? I'd rather have a world where my group was able to adventure without other groups getting in my way.
That being said, there are also times when I might want to wander and maybe join another group of people. If that were the case, I'd like an MMO area for grouping up and interacting. I've read all the posts on this game, and read their Q & A section on their web site... they are offering both choices to me, much like offering Solo or Group play. I want the choice, always, for both these things.
I agree with Ozmo.... the point he is trying to make is that the people should have the option to solo or group (via monster difficulty etc etc etc) but not though instancing.... and i agree... instancing is bad, it kills player interaction. In guild wars it was really hard to get to know people becuase it flung you into instances all the time. That and it really didnt have very many social aspect of it aside from actual guild fights, pickup parties, and guild chatter.
Let me try to explain it a bit more simple... basically back when SWG was in its prime (pre-cu) player interaction was at its best... you could run into people messing with their harvestor, sit down at the trading post in dantooine and talk, talk with people in the cantina etc etc etc. There was a ton of social things to do. And this was totally non instanced. The problem with instancing is that it truely kills a good portion of player interaction... you dont run into people harvesting... you dont run across players that are about dead and you save them, posibly you sitting and having a talk and forming a friendship... you get my point.
I think too many games these days are focusing on instanced content and i would have to say that they are shooting themselves in the foot. This is a mmorpg after all isnt it? Not a single player game? So why limit player interaction in that way?
I have read both threads on this game and I have to say that its defiantely a step in the right direction and something many of us have been looking for since SWG pre-cu or whatever other sandbox game weve played and watched it die (due to wow). This game will have my full support if it actually gets off the ground.
My only concern is player interaction and instancing... that may be the only factor that will change my mind on this game.
Edit: Sorry... one more concern.. leveling.... i hope this isnt another class/level based game... but a tree skill based sandbox like SWG used to be, but more like oblivion.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
do on a day to day basis and some change ups like a hunting party or living ur adventure or helping on a town seige etc ...well it got me to thinking a game that sounds this dynamic needs more RL implications. Exactly! More social interaction type stuff. I agree... maybe a chess board in a tavern so players can sit down and enjoy it after a day of tilling the fields or something... but you get the point. Like maybe marriage to an NPC or another player ... as it says u will forge relationships with NPCs that will affect u later this sounds great as an enemy could always use ur family against u. If he or she were to die this would definitely be an affect that would shape a persons future and their outlook on life. I like this idea, i think a marrage thing with other players would be cool too. (not real of course but just for role play spice) Time itself ... a change in seasons as well as day and night I for one hope they have seasons... i know i would kinda get flamed for this but i think it would be quite amusing to have to make camp and survive the night due to a blizzard or something... and live to tell others about it lol. Character housing which surely could be instanced ... ppl could come on invites i suppose ... if attacked ur home for instance an enemy could burn it down or cause damage forcing u to do repairs ..... I disagree with the instaced part. Houses should be seen like they kinda were in UO and they would have to take a bit of time to build in my opinion. By a crafter, of course and take stages, but be entertaining for the crafter. In my opinion if they are going to have 900 millon sq kilos in their world this should be the only option to slowly fill it up as well as npc stuff. I totally agree with housing though. Would be awesome to sit down and have some tea with a friend, or sharpen a sword in my workshop. this may be flamed a bit but ... not sure on what rating ur going for as far as ur audience but what if one day i dont feel like doing anything just sittin back in the game world minding my own business talkin with friends or gettin to know new ones ... i want to CHILL bY the OLD SHADE TREE and take down my last swallow while watching the sunset while Fishing for rations in the old lake or pond ... this could make for some great screens btw as well as video later as well as a drunkard storyline as ur character may become obsessive with drinkin and fishin by the old shade tree lol. I truly agree with the above... hell i wouldn't mind climbing up on a mountian top cliff and setting up camp so i could watch the sun come up over the forest below when morning comes.... now THAT would be a screen shot. how about PETS ... yes i went there , everyone knows mans best friend is loyal ... only this is some fantasy world so imagine what could be created ... however all pets eventually die or take one for the team once in awhile ... so death should be embraced. When ur pet dies it dies ... they are like doritios ... kill em off they ll make more lol ... I agree, a companion would be a nice option. But in order of importance I think this should be added after the game came out... so they could work on more pressing issues But I love the idea and hope they take it into heart. since u have betting how bout a gambling house where u can play slots or poker or some blackjack for ingame cash. could be set up like mini games and something on the side for players to do besides all the other activities already at their disposal. this is the part that also makes me think this games audience is gonna be a more mature audience as far as its demographics the betting alone im sure would be a major concern from the parental community for children so if ur gonna do it go all the way lol See the first red paragraph :P I totally agree for more player interaction options. As many small little things to do the better im sure i could go on and on but i wont just something bout the lil bit of info says that all of the above is fully possible in ur game .... but as u r trying t break the mold on the MMO market i wish u the best of luck and lookin forward to hearing much more on this game ... I think this is exactly the type of game Jeff Strain over at Anet was talkin about in his " How to build a Successful MMO" article .... for those that havent read it google it , its a good read.
All the red paragraphs are my responses and constructive feedback. I agree with most of it. Lol... I hope this game is true..
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
I did read about this game. It did seem like a perfect game, but then I did read about the instance. Then it will be a group/single player game, not a mmorgp game. Have seen this in a couple of game and always they claim it has to be that way, I dont think so. instancing should only be used when it has to be. If it is a dynamic game, than instancing is not a part of that. So what will be left of the dynamic mmorpg game? I hope they change there mind and drop almost all instancing. Then they would have a very good game. I know I would be testing it then, but with instancing I would not spend my time on it.
Greetz
LOL i love this one, says instancing wont make the game dynamic, so what your saying is that if 500 people sit there waiting for the orc chief to spawn that is dynamic, The instancing Allows for a dynamic game, one group may have ot go kill the orc chief, but another player may have destroyed the orcs and now there is a small guardpost there with a quest. That is the beauty of instancing it allows for specific portions of a quest to truely be Your own story.
You dont understand.... if this game is truly dynamic like they say it is... it wont need instances... and that orc boss wont exist.. this isnt wow.. its a different type of game.. they said so with their quest paragraph... so not everybody will be doing raids on the exact same thing...
So I see no need for instances if this game... and they shouldnt use them...
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Wow, it sounds like a MMO dream come true for me. I wish them the best of luck realizing their ideas.
Dittos!
The MMORPG came out of the pen-and-paper Dungeons and Dragons style RPG, which came out of Science Fiction and Fantasy books. This is the true root of the MMORPG, and much of the flavor has been lost in the translation to the computer medium. Many of you who should really be sticking to FPS and RTS type games anyway have no idea of what has been lost in the modern MMORPG; and that is the RPG.
This is a major step to what the MMORPG was really intended to be about to begin with! I am excited, thrilled to hear the concepts expressed by the creators of this game, and hope very much they can pull it off!
Will this game be for everyone? I don't think it was ever intended to be. This game will be for the RPG person.
FPS players, RTS players, get someone to create an MMOFPS for you, or an MMORTS, or stick with playing the games that try to be everything for everyone - and end up diluting the flavor of the classes, characters, armor and weapons, and weakening the strengths and individual expressiveness of different players by catering to PvP balance above all else.
Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall
This absolutely great!!! a mmo players wet dream come to life whats not to love about this. O sure theres the whole not living up to your promise thing but i live by the creedo dont judge lest you be judged and i reserve my judgement for the actual game its to early to throw out any accolades or critcism's as yet. I like the whole idea behind I will say. Gun toting shinobi anyone no class Rockon!!!! The world evolve's around me no more going back to quest giver to redo the quest (which i always felt guilt about felt like i was cheating) the idea that i can actually piss of npc's in the game as OOOO so many twist's to ur decision manking process. One day i wont be evil I can hehe next day im nice that's life dude can it be I for one hope and pray this game makes it and lives up to what the put out 1 thing tho i noticed they didnt mention much about how player dath would be handle. I wonder about that if i fail the quest and die will i have to start all over or will i be ressurected only to have to live with the shame of failure such as life as I know it lol. Well i wish you guys all the luck in the world and hope this game comes out the way you wont I wont play so hurry up. EyesBoggledWowEwwPraiseCoolAngry
Finally! I see an upcoming game that will take the place of Saga of Ryzom for me. No pre-made classes! You choose what skills you gain as you level up! Plus, you can play solo if you want, or group if you want! I hope the developers of this game pull it off. This game thus far sounds freakin' awesome!
As for the whole instancing thing, I think that's ok, in small doses; if their world is as dynamic and huge as has been described, it may not be necessary, and I hope the developers limit its use to times when it is actually necessary. I've played games where, to complete a quest, you had to wait in line behind 30 other people camping the given NPC mob spawn, and, that, I'm not a big fan of. From what I've read, though, the devs are working to keep that from happening in their game, and instancing is one of the tools available to them.
I think I would like to play a game where at least some of my character's actions have a real and noticable impact on the game world; being the hero every single day can get tiring, but every now and then, to be involved in some epic undertaking would be good.
I will be watching for this game. I really hope the devs can pull it off.
I am SO excited about this game!! I was just talking with my guildmates recently about how tired I am about the linear grind in most MMORPGs. Many games promote "freedom" but lock you into classes, predetermined skills, and allow little customization, creation, and freedom. This game is so exciting for me because it's exactly what I've been looking for. I would offer a few additional suggestions for thought:
1) One thing that I thought was very successful with LOTRO was having a central, "epic" quest line. How clear that quest line is to the player isn't that important to me, but I do want to make sure that even if I do all these other cool things, and help other NPCs, etc., that I can still get to the final battle. For instance, even in FFXII, there was a main quest line and TONS of other side quests, games, hunts, etc. The hunting trophy idea was very cool in this respect.
2) Player-housing, player-towns, interpersonal relations, children etc: The more you allow people to have their own homes, for guilds to create their own towns, hire guards, adopt other players, get married, etc., the more fun I think it will be.
3) Secondary skill advancement system: I think the idea of being able to develop your own class as you progress is awesome! I'd also say you should extend that same concept to other "non-spells/abilities". For instance, in WOW you had talents which were both bonuses and unlocked spells, and in LOTRO you had traits (including class and race traits). I think having something like that where it allows even MORE customization is really cool.
4) Crafting. I know the article didn't say much about it (or I might have missed it), but hopefully the Devs can apply the same mindset to crafting. In wow, you hit the "Make" button and that's that. Similar to LOTRO, but at least they had master options. Vanguard was unique in that it was almost like a mini-game...but I don't think it went far enough. Apply lessons learned from those games, I would hope for a crafting system that's as creative and edgy as the rest of this game.
5) Alternative questing: I know there's a lot of errand-running type quests (kill 10 X, deliever Y, protect Z)--oe thing I liked about Vanguard was the diplomacy system. Another good example are all the mini-games embedded in most of the Final Fantasy games.
6) Hiring NPCs: I think Gods and Heroes was onto something (I was a beta tester for it), when they allowed people to hire NPCs. Guild Wars and FFXII also had similar concepts. I think having that option available for soloers and groups is great. Wouldn't it be awesome if you have 4 people for an instance and you need a healer, can't find one, so you hire them. Obviously, you want them underpowered compared to the real thing, but again, it gives game-play options.
So that's all I have in my head this morning. I LOVE that the Devs are working on such an AWESOME-sounding game. Please make sure to let us know when we can get involved from an alpha/beta testing standpoint!
I am SO excited about this game!! I was just talking with my guildmates recently about how tired I am about the linear grind in most MMORPGs. Many games promote "freedom" but lock you into classes, predetermined skills, and allow little customization, creation, and freedom. This game is so exciting for me because it's exactly what I've been looking for. I would offer a few additional suggestions for thought: 1) One thing that I thought was very successful with LOTRO was having a central, "epic" quest line. How clear that quest line is to the player isn't that important to me, but I do want to make sure that even if I do all these other cool things, and help other NPCs, etc., that I can still get to the final battle. For instance, even in FFXII, there was a main quest line and TONS of other side quests, games, hunts, etc. The hunting trophy idea was very cool in this respect. Got to agree here, the central 'epic' quest line is pretty cool. Not that you HAVE to do it, but you get some cool rewards if you do. 2) Player-housing, player-towns, interpersonal relations, children etc: The more you allow people to have their own homes, for guilds to create their own towns, hire guards, adopt other players, get married, etc., the more fun I think it will be. Player housing is also a keen idea, although, from the sounds of it, the world might be too wild for this, in that a town can come under siege and any player housing located in that town might be burned to the ground if said player is unable to defend it. Then again, it could be fun... 3) Secondary skill advancement system: I think the idea of being able to develop your own class as you progress is awesome! I'd also say you should extend that same concept to other "non-spells/abilities". For instance, in WOW you had talents which were both bonuses and unlocked spells, and in LOTRO you had traits (including class and race traits). I think having something like that where it allows even MORE customization is really cool. In Saga of Ryzom, you gained skill in a specific skill tree by using a skill in said skill tree; i.e. a melee combat skill would raise up Melee Fight, while casting a life heal spell would raise up Healing Magic. You could then, upon level up, spend your skill points buying new spells and upgrades in a given skill tree; you could have a kick butt sword wielder who could turn and cast a healing spell to replenish the healer's magic power stat (mana, or whatever you'd call it.) If you wanted, during a given outing, you could change roles, from healer to nuker, from nuker to tank, etc... I miss that versatility in other games, and I'm hoping this game has something along those lines. 4) Crafting. I know the article didn't say much about it (or I might have missed it), but hopefully the Devs can apply the same mindset to crafting. In wow, you hit the "Make" button and that's that. Similar to LOTRO, but at least they had master options. Vanguard was unique in that it was almost like a mini-game...but I don't think it went far enough. Apply lessons learned from those games, I would hope for a crafting system that's as creative and edgy as the rest of this game. One of my pet peeves with EQ was, in order to craft a given item, you had to have the exact recipe on hand, and there was SO much material you had to keep track of, it was a real pain. In other games, you had to have material for a given part, and the better the material was, the better the item turned out to be. Also, in other games, the player crafted items were generally of better quality than the same items available from NPC merchants, and only epic quest items were better than player crafted items. I would like to see this in this game. 5) Alternative questing: I know there's a lot of errand-running type quests (kill 10 X, deliever Y, protect Z)--oe thing I liked about Vanguard was the diplomacy system. Another good example are all the mini-games embedded in most of the Final Fantasy games. As I understand it, there aren't going to be this type of quest in this game, and that would be a breath of fresh air, no doubt about it. I just hope that help will be available, since quests will be different for each character; writeups for given quests won't do any good in this game, will they? hehehe 6) Hiring NPCs: I think Gods and Heroes was onto something (I was a beta tester for it), when they allowed people to hire NPCs. Guild Wars and FFXII also had similar concepts. I think having that option available for soloers and groups is great. Wouldn't it be awesome if you have 4 people for an instance and you need a healer, can't find one, so you hire them. Obviously, you want them underpowered compared to the real thing, but again, it gives game-play options. This is an excellent idea and if the devs can implement it, that would definitely open up group gameplay. So that's all I have in my head this morning. I LOVE that the Devs are working on such an AWESOME-sounding game. Please make sure to let us know when we can get involved from an alpha/beta testing standpoint! Best of luck!
I have since 1999 played most MMORPGS out there and am currently playing LOTRO and have Vanguard account in hopes the game may be sorted. The quest where you rescue an NPC then see it back in its original location every time you visit that location is annoying. Horizons was plagued with bugs but the concept of players changing the world was one of the best teatures in all the games I have played.
As others have pointed out the restrictions on groups due to differnces in levels is a pain. It was an aspect of WoW which I hated.
I am a little confused as to what two players who have pursued simular quest lines but with different outcomes would see when they enter a location where one player saved a building from distruction and the other failed?
Guess after 3 years dev it is already to late to introduce any more concepts. I do feel the normal character leveling system which restricts a players access to a fraction of the game world should give way to a skill level based system. My other wish is a game with proper collision detection. Still enough of day dreams.
I like the game you describe. I would buy it if you could produce it.
I followed Vanguard for 3 years on a daily basis with nearly 4000 constructive posts. They highlighted some of the biggest dangers to a development.
Project Creep - Agree on a specification and safe timetable stick to it.
Sods law - Rules
Landscape - Small is better than empty. LOTRO have this right starting with a small well poputated world and adding to it year on year.
Release when Ready - See sods law. You need an extended Beta but that is where so many games die. Make sure there is sufficent funds to finish the job. A rubbish Launch is very hard to recover from.
Graphics - WoW and LOTRO aimed at mid level player systems which was one reason for their success.
Dont hype up the game. You wont be forgiven. I bet most contributers to these forums can run off a list of false promises.
Look here, I'll be honest, i was rolling my eyes as i read all that text but at the end the part where it said you guys have been working on this for 5+ years plus is a good sign so who knows maybe your engine is capable of doing all these things, still not going to wait on this one though, ive seen this happen too many times before, but either way good luck.
it apears as though the developers here are tirelessly working to 'rewrite the codes' of mmorpg. i am sure that all the problems that instancing would cause to pvp and the multi-player environment that people have been raising have already occoured to the developers. i would imagine that they already solved those problems, or at least are confident that the problems are solveable, through thier creative approach, long before they spent years further developing the game.
instead of telling them 'you cant do that if you have instancing', maybe you should simply ask 'can you do that with instancing?'
the game seems very promising, and i am happy that they have including me into the beta testing, whenever that may be, i hope this game really does adress the turn-offs that are prevelant in most all mmorpgs.
I've been thinking about this game in my spare time, and I had a new idea for you all. Going back to my good 'ol RPG tabletop days, why don't we bring back the concept of alignment: good/neutral/evil.
As a hero, you get choices throughout the first X levels of play when you do quests--some of those choices make you more evil (e.g., corrupted), while the others make you more positive. For instance, as part of a quest, a house is burning, you run out only to realize there's a child trapped inside. You can choose to risk you own life to save the child. And perhaps the quest has a twist--you do die saving the child, but you get a huge bonus to your alignment (selfless action bonus, etc.) Ultimately, you are aligned good, neutral, or evil, with KOS flags for the places you're not aligned with.
I think it could be really cool that some of the quests may have you fight some evil guy, but instead you could cut a deal with them. Ultimately, as a corrupted hero, you're after power--to be in control of the Citudal of Sorcery, which would have you trying to fight the same type of battles as the regular heroes, but for different reasons.
This also would open the game up to PvP (which I'm not all that interested in, personnally, but I know many people are), while expanding the depth of play. And people could find themselves playing PvP indirectly too--you help to defend a town with some NPCs, while some corrupted heroes and NPCs attack it.
So many games now have you start off and you're either good or evil (e.g., LOTRO, WOW, etc.). It'd be really awesome to be more like the real world where we all start off as a blank slate and some of us choose to be heroes while others choose to do evil.
I sincerely hope you can make the statements of the 2 intros into a reality. I like grouping with people I get along with, and I love to play solo and have for a long time wished someone out there would develop a generator like you describe. My highest of hopes go with you in acheiving your stated goals and going live, if you manage to do this, you will definitely have my subscription.
Even peace may be purchased at too high a price, and the only time you are completely safe is when you lie in the grave.
well no ffa pvp for this game so as well as it sounds about the other stuff seems just another carebear mmo for everyone to hold hands
wont waste my time or money following it or playing it
convict1 you say there is no pvp but if you went on there website you would see that it says that you can do pvp in a colisuem in the main city so before you say there is no pvp look it up for shure next time.
This game looks very interesting. They actually seem to want to throw the Wow mold out the door and innovate. Let's us hope they have the time and funding to do it.
well no ffa pvp for this game so as well as it sounds about the other stuff seems just another carebear mmo for everyone to hold hands
wont waste my time or money following it or playing it
convict1 you say there is no pvp but if you went on there website you would see that it says that you can do pvp in a colisuem in the main city so before you say there is no pvp look it up for shure next time.
Well, while I don't really think the timbre of comment was conducive to constructive discussion (and a bit more "knee jerk reactive") he does have a point in that ffa pvp is its own thing. A person looking for ffa pvp is not going to have that same experience with Coliseum pvp. If indeed that is the only type of pvp the game has. I haven't checked out their site in a bit so I'm a bit rusty on certain particulars.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I've been seeing more and more of that in the past couple of days since the new forums went live. Maybe people getting notifications on an old post they didn't read 7 years ago? Still annoying though.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I've been seeing more and more of that in the past couple of days since the new forums went live. Maybe people getting notifications on an old post they didn't read 7 years ago? Still annoying though.
I've been seeing more and more of that in the past couple of days since the new forums went live. Maybe people getting notifications on an old post they didn't read 7 years ago? Still annoying though.
Thing is, there are no dates on any of the posts. It's impossible to tell whether a reply is an hour old or a year old. Though, come to think of it, I've also been getting a lot of notifications on older posts.
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Comments
CoS sounds better and better.
But this statement about forced grouping is the lamest thing i have ever heard!
If you choose tp play a MMORPG, you choose to group with other people. Same if a go and play fotball, and then whine i have to play with a team. The dont play!
"Gaining skills is not random, nor are you handed one you do not like when you go up a level. "
I hope that cyrptic line doesnt mean "Yet Another Level based poo-poo game" if so, then i pass!
Respectfully, I have to disagree. I am 38 years old and play a lot of MMO's. My gaming friends are also in their 30's. We play a considerable amount together, but we also all have individual lives and commitments that prevent us from grouping. So we play grouped or solo depending upon the day.
DDO is a game that really focused heavily on grouping. If your argument held true, then DDO would be a phenomenally successful game. Yet despite having great graphics and compelling dungeon adventures, it's only a mediocre success at best. My friends and I stopped playing it because grouping was the only choice that we had, and when we couldn't group up we had no choice but to play something else. There just wasn't any solo content available in DDO with which to occupy our time until our friends came on.
If you have one game that focuses exclusively on group content and another that offers both options, where will you spend your monthly subscription fee? You'll naturally spend it where you can play whenever you want to. DDO learned this the hard way, and has slowly been introducing more solo content to the game.
As a mature player, I want BOTH kinds of play. I want compelling content that I can enjoy with friends, as well as equally compelling content that I can experience when those friends aren't available. The "join a big guild" argument just doesn't hold water, in part because of the fact that we're mature players. We have developed a core group of solid friends that we work well together with. We don't like all the politics and cliques that form with big guilds. So we -- and many other mature players just like us -- will naturally gravitate toward games that cater to both solo and group playstyles.
That being said, I'm not too sure about the use of instancing as it's described here. If the game world has as much space as the real world, yet that space is heavily instanced, it seems to me that the result would be a very dead world. It will be necessary to learn more about this aspect of the game as the devs make that info available. For now, I'm withholding my verdict.
Excuse me, but your statements seem contradictory. On the one hand you advocate letting the player choose between Solo and Group play, and how having the choice is always better than being forced to only one or the other (and I couldn't agree more with you on this issue).
However, on the other hand you state that you think having the choice of entering a fully instanced world, complete with all adventures, towns, NPCs, enemies... everything... or going into the world where there are other MMO players... is bad. So you want to limit the game play choice to one of these, instead of having the game allow you to choose what type of game play you want at that time?
Personally, there are times when other players are just annoying me. I'm on my adventure with my group of friends and some other group of players 'takes' what I'm looking for or need. I have to wait... I hate to wait. What good are these other players to me when I'm already in a group on my adventure? I'd rather have a world where my group was able to adventure without other groups getting in my way.
That being said, there are also times when I might want to wander and maybe join another group of people. If that were the case, I'd like an MMO area for grouping up and interacting. I've read all the posts on this game, and read their Q & A section on their web site... they are offering both choices to me, much like offering Solo or Group play. I want the choice, always, for both these things.
I agree with Ozmo.... the point he is trying to make is that the people should have the option to solo or group (via monster difficulty etc etc etc) but not though instancing.... and i agree... instancing is bad, it kills player interaction. In guild wars it was really hard to get to know people becuase it flung you into instances all the time. That and it really didnt have very many social aspect of it aside from actual guild fights, pickup parties, and guild chatter.
Let me try to explain it a bit more simple... basically back when SWG was in its prime (pre-cu) player interaction was at its best... you could run into people messing with their harvestor, sit down at the trading post in dantooine and talk, talk with people in the cantina etc etc etc. There was a ton of social things to do. And this was totally non instanced. The problem with instancing is that it truely kills a good portion of player interaction... you dont run into people harvesting... you dont run across players that are about dead and you save them, posibly you sitting and having a talk and forming a friendship... you get my point.
I think too many games these days are focusing on instanced content and i would have to say that they are shooting themselves in the foot. This is a mmorpg after all isnt it? Not a single player game? So why limit player interaction in that way?
I have read both threads on this game and I have to say that its defiantely a step in the right direction and something many of us have been looking for since SWG pre-cu or whatever other sandbox game weve played and watched it die (due to wow). This game will have my full support if it actually gets off the ground.
My only concern is player interaction and instancing... that may be the only factor that will change my mind on this game.
Edit: Sorry... one more concern.. leveling.... i hope this isnt another class/level based game... but a tree skill based sandbox like SWG used to be, but more like oblivion.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
All the red paragraphs are my responses and constructive feedback. I agree with most of it. Lol... I hope this game is true..
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
LOL i love this one, says instancing wont make the game dynamic, so what your saying is that if 500 people sit there waiting for the orc chief to spawn that is dynamic, The instancing Allows for a dynamic game, one group may have ot go kill the orc chief, but another player may have destroyed the orcs and now there is a small guardpost there with a quest. That is the beauty of instancing it allows for specific portions of a quest to truely be Your own story.
You dont understand.... if this game is truly dynamic like they say it is... it wont need instances... and that orc boss wont exist.. this isnt wow.. its a different type of game.. they said so with their quest paragraph... so not everybody will be doing raids on the exact same thing...
So I see no need for instances if this game... and they shouldnt use them...
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Dittos!
The MMORPG came out of the pen-and-paper Dungeons and Dragons style RPG, which came out of Science Fiction and Fantasy books. This is the true root of the MMORPG, and much of the flavor has been lost in the translation to the computer medium. Many of you who should really be sticking to FPS and RTS type games anyway have no idea of what has been lost in the modern MMORPG; and that is the RPG.
This is a major step to what the MMORPG was really intended to be about to begin with! I am excited, thrilled to hear the concepts expressed by the creators of this game, and hope very much they can pull it off!
Will this game be for everyone? I don't think it was ever intended to be. This game will be for the RPG person.
FPS players, RTS players, get someone to create an MMOFPS for you, or an MMORTS, or stick with playing the games that try to be everything for everyone - and end up diluting the flavor of the classes, characters, armor and weapons, and weakening the strengths and individual expressiveness of different players by catering to PvP balance above all else.
Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall
Finally! I see an upcoming game that will take the place of Saga of Ryzom for me. No pre-made classes! You choose what skills you gain as you level up! Plus, you can play solo if you want, or group if you want! I hope the developers of this game pull it off. This game thus far sounds freakin' awesome!
As for the whole instancing thing, I think that's ok, in small doses; if their world is as dynamic and huge as has been described, it may not be necessary, and I hope the developers limit its use to times when it is actually necessary. I've played games where, to complete a quest, you had to wait in line behind 30 other people camping the given NPC mob spawn, and, that, I'm not a big fan of. From what I've read, though, the devs are working to keep that from happening in their game, and instancing is one of the tools available to them.
I think I would like to play a game where at least some of my character's actions have a real and noticable impact on the game world; being the hero every single day can get tiring, but every now and then, to be involved in some epic undertaking would be good.
I will be watching for this game. I really hope the devs can pull it off.
I am SO excited about this game!! I was just talking with my guildmates recently about how tired I am about the linear grind in most MMORPGs. Many games promote "freedom" but lock you into classes, predetermined skills, and allow little customization, creation, and freedom. This game is so exciting for me because it's exactly what I've been looking for. I would offer a few additional suggestions for thought:
1) One thing that I thought was very successful with LOTRO was having a central, "epic" quest line. How clear that quest line is to the player isn't that important to me, but I do want to make sure that even if I do all these other cool things, and help other NPCs, etc., that I can still get to the final battle. For instance, even in FFXII, there was a main quest line and TONS of other side quests, games, hunts, etc. The hunting trophy idea was very cool in this respect.
2) Player-housing, player-towns, interpersonal relations, children etc: The more you allow people to have their own homes, for guilds to create their own towns, hire guards, adopt other players, get married, etc., the more fun I think it will be.
3) Secondary skill advancement system: I think the idea of being able to develop your own class as you progress is awesome! I'd also say you should extend that same concept to other "non-spells/abilities". For instance, in WOW you had talents which were both bonuses and unlocked spells, and in LOTRO you had traits (including class and race traits). I think having something like that where it allows even MORE customization is really cool.
4) Crafting. I know the article didn't say much about it (or I might have missed it), but hopefully the Devs can apply the same mindset to crafting. In wow, you hit the "Make" button and that's that. Similar to LOTRO, but at least they had master options. Vanguard was unique in that it was almost like a mini-game...but I don't think it went far enough. Apply lessons learned from those games, I would hope for a crafting system that's as creative and edgy as the rest of this game.
5) Alternative questing: I know there's a lot of errand-running type quests (kill 10 X, deliever Y, protect Z)--oe thing I liked about Vanguard was the diplomacy system. Another good example are all the mini-games embedded in most of the Final Fantasy games.
6) Hiring NPCs: I think Gods and Heroes was onto something (I was a beta tester for it), when they allowed people to hire NPCs. Guild Wars and FFXII also had similar concepts. I think having that option available for soloers and groups is great. Wouldn't it be awesome if you have 4 people for an instance and you need a healer, can't find one, so you hire them. Obviously, you want them underpowered compared to the real thing, but again, it gives game-play options.
So that's all I have in my head this morning. I LOVE that the Devs are working on such an AWESOME-sounding game. Please make sure to let us know when we can get involved from an alpha/beta testing standpoint!
Best of luck!
Yeah, best of luck, you guys!
I have since 1999 played most MMORPGS out there and am currently playing LOTRO and have Vanguard account in hopes the game may be sorted. The quest where you rescue an NPC then see it back in its original location every time you visit that location is annoying. Horizons was plagued with bugs but the concept of players changing the world was one of the best teatures in all the games I have played.
As others have pointed out the restrictions on groups due to differnces in levels is a pain. It was an aspect of WoW which I hated.
I am a little confused as to what two players who have pursued simular quest lines but with different outcomes would see when they enter a location where one player saved a building from distruction and the other failed?
Guess after 3 years dev it is already to late to introduce any more concepts. I do feel the normal character leveling system which restricts a players access to a fraction of the game world should give way to a skill level based system. My other wish is a game with proper collision detection. Still enough of day dreams.
I like the game you describe. I would buy it if you could produce it.
I followed Vanguard for 3 years on a daily basis with nearly 4000 constructive posts. They highlighted some of the biggest dangers to a development.
Project Creep - Agree on a specification and safe timetable stick to it.
Sods law - Rules
Landscape - Small is better than empty. LOTRO have this right starting with a small well poputated world and adding to it year on year.
Release when Ready - See sods law. You need an extended Beta but that is where so many games die. Make sure there is sufficent funds to finish the job. A rubbish Launch is very hard to recover from.
Graphics - WoW and LOTRO aimed at mid level player systems which was one reason for their success.
Dont hype up the game. You wont be forgiven. I bet most contributers to these forums can run off a list of false promises.
Dont sell out to Sony.
Best of luck
Look here, I'll be honest, i was rolling my eyes as i read all that text but at the end the part where it said you guys have been working on this for 5+ years plus is a good sign so who knows maybe your engine is capable of doing all these things, still not going to wait on this one though, ive seen this happen too many times before, but either way good luck.
Instancing.
it apears as though the developers here are tirelessly working to 'rewrite the codes' of mmorpg. i am sure that all the problems that instancing would cause to pvp and the multi-player environment that people have been raising have already occoured to the developers. i would imagine that they already solved those problems, or at least are confident that the problems are solveable, through thier creative approach, long before they spent years further developing the game.
instead of telling them 'you cant do that if you have instancing', maybe you should simply ask 'can you do that with instancing?'
the game seems very promising, and i am happy that they have including me into the beta testing, whenever that may be, i hope this game really does adress the turn-offs that are prevelant in most all mmorpgs.
Dear Devs-
I've been thinking about this game in my spare time, and I had a new idea for you all. Going back to my good 'ol RPG tabletop days, why don't we bring back the concept of alignment: good/neutral/evil.
As a hero, you get choices throughout the first X levels of play when you do quests--some of those choices make you more evil (e.g., corrupted), while the others make you more positive. For instance, as part of a quest, a house is burning, you run out only to realize there's a child trapped inside. You can choose to risk you own life to save the child. And perhaps the quest has a twist--you do die saving the child, but you get a huge bonus to your alignment (selfless action bonus, etc.) Ultimately, you are aligned good, neutral, or evil, with KOS flags for the places you're not aligned with.
I think it could be really cool that some of the quests may have you fight some evil guy, but instead you could cut a deal with them. Ultimately, as a corrupted hero, you're after power--to be in control of the Citudal of Sorcery, which would have you trying to fight the same type of battles as the regular heroes, but for different reasons.
This also would open the game up to PvP (which I'm not all that interested in, personnally, but I know many people are), while expanding the depth of play. And people could find themselves playing PvP indirectly too--you help to defend a town with some NPCs, while some corrupted heroes and NPCs attack it.
So many games now have you start off and you're either good or evil (e.g., LOTRO, WOW, etc.). It'd be really awesome to be more like the real world where we all start off as a blank slate and some of us choose to be heroes while others choose to do evil.
Just my $0.02!
Foenyx
It all sounds very good - but it also sounds kind of hollow. Like their website, which is an adjectival orgy.
New blah blah, innovative blah blah, unique blah blah.
It's all gloss and no substance.
I remain dubious.
I sincerely hope you can make the statements of the 2 intros into a reality. I like grouping with people I get along with, and I love to play solo and have for a long time wished someone out there would develop a generator like you describe. My highest of hopes go with you in acheiving your stated goals and going live, if you manage to do this, you will definitely have my subscription.
Even peace may be purchased at too high a price, and the only time you are completely safe is when you lie in the grave.
convict1 you say there is no pvp but if you went on there website you would see that it says that you can do pvp in a colisuem in the main city so before you say there is no pvp look it up for shure next time.
This game looks very interesting. They actually seem to want to throw the Wow mold out the door and innovate. Let's us hope they have the time and funding to do it.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I've been seeing more and more of that in the past couple of days since the new forums went live. Maybe people getting notifications on an old post they didn't read 7 years ago? Still annoying though.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo