Message to the developers, the perfect MMORPG discussion

chilly444

Well, as most of us all know, the MMORPG (massivley multiplayer online role playing game; for the slow ones) industry is completley sucking right now. So i say we should have a disscussion about some of the main controversial things that the makers go through when making a game. such as grinding vs questing solutions, PvP areas, and transportation.

if you have something to say try to be as elaborate as possible, use examples and  explain those examples do just say "i like the PvP in star wars galaxies, i think all PvP should be that way". alot of people haven't played SWG and don't know what the PvP is like. Also if you have something to say on just one thing try thinking about the other options. try not to just post on one subject

some of the topics to discuss: (im not perfect but these are the few things i think we should talk about and share our ideas about. give some suggestions, I will add them later)

1) PvP; some types i have seen are the anywhere PvP in eve online and SWG, theres the WoW PvP where you can fight most anywhere, and then theres stuff like runescape, designated fighting zones

2) in PvP should there be full looting? or save your items?

3) death penalty; give some ideas

4) Storyline; to many MMOs have basicaly none, (when i say story line i don't meen suggest a story line but talk about how the story should be made? should it be "your a hero" or some war is going on, or just a basic background and everyone makes there own?)

5) Travel system; many people hate running to someplace, and prefer to fly or teleport but this can make a game boring, some think travel should be dificult. / disscuss

6) world chat; what are your views on this? should there be a LFG channel? give some new ORIGINAL ideas

7) payment *multiple options underneath*

a) monthly fees, be realistic, if a game is perfect it won't be free. people need to be paid, what should the rates be?

b) character creation fee? (personally i agree wait for my responce later) some people don't like these, but others do because it reduces spammer advertisers

c) premium items? should people who pay extra get better items?

d) multiple payment options? (as in pay $7 for limited acces or $10 for full world access

8) level blocking areas, what i meen by this is a level 7 can't get into a level 60 some area and level 60s can't get into some newbie zones and power level

9) Punishments, some rules: (some people don't like swearing some people do, ideas? what should punishments be for rule breakers? sometimes banning is too harsh for minor rule breaking)

10) owning houses, (as in SWG you can get your own houses in aproved zones or no, adding old houses just clutters the world)

11) crafting (some games have crafting classes, but that makes combat boring, what types of crafting skills should there be and how can we make them original and diffrent?)

 

i forgot some so i will add them later, please remember the point of this thats to suggest things for a new MMORPG that are DIFFRENT so we can all have a new fresh experience (i will edit spelling later sorry this was kinda rush)

 

so /discuss

chilly444

1) PvP i believe PvP should be full world. i loved the PvP system in star wars galaxies with its guild vs guild and faction vs faction. Also you could trigger it off and on so if you didn't want to PvP at all times you didn't have to. also there were PvP events where a system wide message would say "the imperials have attacked xx and the siege will last for another 20 minutes" and you could just fly over and fight. then you could get your faction to control planets. there was even space combat. it was definatley a very fun game that i wish less people complained about...

2) I believe that there should be partial looting in PvP meening in PvP there is a chance that you will lose some of your items. it would add a risk factor in as well as a good death penalty. heres how i think it should work--- depending on the rarity of your item you would have a 0.01% chance to a 5% chance to lose it at death, the rarer the less chance to lose it. if you had a weapon that took you three weeks of grinding to find you could have it insured for a great ammount of money. if you drop it on death the person who stole the item will be marked by a bounty. then the next person who takes this bounty (given by the player that lost the item) can kill him ANYWHERE and then wire the item back to the one who lost it.  BUT the bounty hunter (the person who got the item) COULD NOT use it as their own. the item would be disabled from then on till it gets back to the owner and it has no chance of being dropped on death. yes i know it seems kindof complicated but it would be fun, its basicaly adding in PvP missions

3)death penelty, to many games have too lax of a penalty if there is one at all. i like the penalty in wow, with armor getting 'broken'  but the only problem is i don't think thats enough. when a person dies the person should lose any money that they were carrying. the game would then have to encorperate a bank to store money that shouldn't be lost

4) in games story lines i HATE when its like "you must be the hero" well then there are 9,000 other heros and only about 500 NPCs that need to be saved... it ruins it for me. i believe that storylines should be based on PvP factions if so then games would constantly be changed. every server would have its own specific storyline. then there could be GMs who play as generals ect. that develop the story line and basically run the faction. again i refer back to soe's SWG, they didn't have a GM but you never knew how strong one faction was, if you went to one planet you could be killed for just landing. The 'storyline' was constantly changing due to this.

5) I do like the idea of a travel system... sort of... for lower level areas you should be able to fly/teleport to these places, but i do think that people who walk should have some benifit. there should be a way to maybe buy a caravan, and with that caravan you get a few NPCs and you would travel down roads and you would randomly encount monsters that spawn specificaly for you to fight. loot would be doubled (but rare items are still very hard to find) as in you kill a frog, the frog normally drops leathry hide and a tounge. you would get two leathery hides and 3 tounges that you could then fence off for extra money. also this would add some AWSOME group pick-up quests in higher levels to just have fun with your friends.

for now i have to go, il add more ideas later, thanks for listening

safwd

1) PvP- Im not a huge player of PVP but if there is PVP i am more a fan of Race War or team based PVP vis FFA. I also enjoy Arenas. I dont like full world concentual PVP because then you have some punk following you around town spaming dual with you.
2) PVP Looting- I like some item looting (1-3 items) plus all coin. That way you get something but the loser isnt destroyed. I also think that a player should be able to "tag" an item or two as non lootable, thus saving your grand prize.
3) death penalty- I like XP Loss. I also like level lose but that gets people excited. I can also see a system where at 0 exp you go into a exp dept, thus no lvl loss.
4) Storyline- I like a storyline but i dont really have views on it. I would like quests but not a linear quest system, just some good quests that you can do if you want to do but you dont have to do, i.e. not exp quests. And no quest icon over the givers head. I also like faction between races, i like there to be animosity. You should have to build faction.
5) Travel system- Real travel. The only teleportion i like is class based teleportation, like EQ had. NPC boats are good. Basically no free easy access instant travel.
-6) world chat- Only world chat should be Guild, you can have zone chat and tells.
7) payment *multiple options underneath*
a) monthly fees- the typical $15 a month is fine by me. If the game is really good i would pay a little more. 
b) character creation fee? Never dealt with it, but i dont like the sound of it.
c) premium items- NO WAY. NO ITEM STORE
d) multiple payment options- Nah, one game one pay to play style.
8) level blocking areas- No way again. If a lvl 7 is brave enough (or dumb enough to go into a lvl 60 zone he should be able to. And i have no problem with power leveling or twinking.
9) Punishments, some rules: - Whatever they want. Its their game and i will play by their rules. Ive never gotten a warning yet.
10) owning houses- I like player houses and there is no reason that they should not be in all new games that come out.
11) crafting- I like the standard crafting jobs. I think you should be able to pick a primary job and then a secondary job that you cant max out but can make stuff. In depth crafting, more like Vanguard or EQ2 then WoW. Also must have Fishing and Brewing.
 12) Races and Classes- I like a game that has alot of races and classes, but Vanguard over did it. Start with 6-10 races and add one or two later. I still like the standard classes of Ranger, Druid, ShadowKnight, etc etc, but i would like some added like BattleMage or something.
13) Spell Components- Game should have spell components that you have to gather/buy. Not every spell should have them but many should. Give an extra slot for a components bag.
14) Weight- Put weight back into games. I liked having to worry about getting overloaded.
Basically my perfect game makes you play your character again. I would put eating and drinking back in. I dont mind the grind, as long as its fun.
 

griff66

 Frick man i kno what you are saying. We need like a frikkin sci fi mmo. That would be super bad ass.

wikie

i am really a fun of MMO since Ragnarok.. i hope there's a game that we can use steal skill in NPC's

AKBandito

my points, with examples.

1. Make combat exciting, and dangerous.

eg. bad combat - WoW press hotkey 1, then hotkey 2, then 3, and 1 again, and mob dies.

good combat - DAoC Having to attack from the side/rear of mob to get off situational attacks.

mobs that stun/mez/fear/bleed/poison/are stealthed ... etc ....

2.  Make world immersive/dangerous.

eg bad - _o_ of _arcraft - static mobs, that really have no chance in actually being able to kill you, and that you can just run away from.

If u can go from lvl1-max level without dying(assuming you dont do anything stupid) thats a boring game imo.

good - EQ - forgot the name of the zone, but that forest off east commons that if u tried to run thru there at night

was like running the gauntlet, sometimes u made it, sometimes u didn't.

Random badass mobs that roam around and stomp on ppl  eg. Sand Giant from EQ oasis.

3. Make character creation AND advancement more involved.

its going to be your avatar for the next couple of years(assuming the game isn't another POS like everything thats been released for the last 5yrs+)

It makes players more connected to their characters and combined with good immersion/danger

will keep players interested in the game.

 

Kevyne-Shandris

I just quit a MMO today. Been playing with it off and on since the summer of last year. Why? PvP gone crazy. So here's some suggestions from someone who loves gaming, but not the crap that can fill it...

1. PvP needs to be in it's own universe. Don't mean in a seperate server, but they can only attack other PvP players, since now it's about who buys what to kill who. The average player won't spend hundreds of dollars on store goods, only for some punk to kill them and loot them of ALL of it. Also, makes zero sense having a level 100 player decking level 1 players from behind and unarmed (this is over abused in games now).

2. Storylines need to fit the game. Quests need to have something more to it than 2 sentences. If you must slay a dragon to obtain an orb of power, at least add what/when/where/why you need to kill the dragon for it. If folks can't spend 5 minutes reading the story, they really shouldn't be playing any MMO!

3. Elaborate crafting for crafters. This is often wanted by players, as no other genre offers this option. For fighters they can just by-pass this part of the game, but those wanting to make and sell things, they want a detailed crafting system equal to what is put into making guilds itself -- as it's their guild!

4. Do away with coinage as money. Too many gold eBay sellers that ruin the game, as you know no one can get millions in gold without months of hard work!

5. No more camping bosses for loot. Simply tired of fighting with campers wanting to take epic gear/loot, over and over and over, while you just need to finish once.

6. NO game store. The game I quit is pushing it too new extremes, and even made an area for high levels that can only survive by spamming store perks. If you can't get it in the game, getting outside of the game also ruins the immersion factor.

7. Artwork that's appropriate for the game. If it's Medieval, don't add anime props. Armor/weapons/buildings/clothing/themes needs to look like it came from the 12th century.

8. Language needs to be appropriate for the setting. As in #7, text needs to read similar to Old English (we can't read readily Canterbury Middle English, so something similar that Modern English readers can understand can suffice).

9. Any epic gear can't be had but once, so it won't be traded and sold again. You earned it, it's not some trade good.

10. Experience tied to achieving something that can't be angled to get an advantage. Grinding has macros to cheat; if the game has regular monster spawns folks will grind them for XP to level. Randomize things, so cheats can't readily game the system.

11. Subscriptions should allow players to retire for awhile, and restart later (life does intercede and folks can't keep up with their characters all of the time, nor feel paying $15+/mon for not playing). The database space for a player doesn't cost that much to store.

12. Don't limit space and load. Either one or the other. If you limit both, you force players to have m-a-n-y ALTs (and alts hurt gameplay, and taxes the system resources).

13. Death penalities can be many types, but in no shape or form, if he game has a store, that store items are dropped loot. Personally perfer the death penalty to be loss of XP, as you died because of a lack of it. That makes players choose combat wisely, which should be the case anyway.

14. Newbie levels need to be totally protected, if they exist. No exceptions. If this includes cities, don't give guilds extra perks to turn a city into a PK zone -- it will be abused.

15. Logging out protection. You don't lose items if your connection fails (yes, this can be abused, but it's better than hundreds or thousands losing hard earned items for no fault of their own -- server fails; ISP nodes can get too congested; or a CMTS frontend can blow).

16. Offer folks a home (yes!), that they can outfit themselves. This is such a nice perk that folks will work the grind to create their dream estate.

17. Require eating, drinking and sleep. Your character can gain rest when you're offline -- to encourage folks not grinding for 24hrs. This will make pubs and inns worthwhile, with folks actually buying mead, ale, beer, and wine for a purpose -- not just for some quest or show.

18. Allow merchants to have shops. Real shops that has their personal wares for sale. Be it a little lean-too for low level merchants, to a full retail shop for high end merchants.

19. Allow fighters to mix and match clothing. Not just wear one set of armor, for example. Some armor has better stats that a character needs (faster hits; or better defense; or lighter in weight).

Ack, have 10001 more ideas!

TeflonEddie

My perfect MMO would contain these elements:

1. One character per account.

2. No levels, skill-based like the original SWG or UO.

3. The ability to be a non-combatant crafter or social.

4. Player-housing and cities.

5. No gear dependancy.

6. FFA combat/looting with consequences.

DeaconX

 

This is just a repost from 'The Ultimate MMO Survey thread but since I did more than just take the survey, I guess all of this information is better suited for this thread.  :

Intensity

Hardcore VS Casual

 

A: Both. Some areas of the world should be much more difficult to journey through than others, perhaps even to the point where the rules of game play actually change [with fair warning to players who trespass such dangerous areas]. But you cannot lock out the casual player which actually is the higher populace of the player base in most cases. Thus, a world should be something like 85% Casual, 15% Hardcore. Hardcore areas however should be with rewards which match the level of danger and difficulty.

 

 

Advancement Type

Levels VS Skills

 

A: I love the idea of SKILLS based advancement and game design, but there’s no reason ‘Levels’ couldn’t govern your advancement while you have skill based game play.

 

Characters

Classes VS No Classes

 

A: I would have to say I prefer no classes, allowing players to instead learn what skills they wish to train in as they level and getting rid of the ‘Healer/Tank’ formula, allowing players to play the game as they want to play it. Constant monitoring and balancing would be required, but I believe it’s more than doable for intelligent designers.

 

 

Dungeons

 

A: Instancing VS No Instancing VS Limited Instancing

There simply needs to be limited instancing in an MMORPG unless you want to stand around and wait near a quest area for your turn. People don’t always have time nor the patience for that – they want instant gratification, it’s just human nature. For some quests, Limited Instancing is absolutely perfect and just plain logical.

 

 

Travel

Realism VS Quick

 

A: While I understand the realism argument, I would have to say QUICK is the way to go but it should be earned. Realistic until such means to allow quicker travel are achieved. Again, most players don’t have all the time in the world and have lives to live – so for those ‘hardcore’ who want realism they can play without the fast travel, but for everyone else it should be an achievable means – Teleporting, Vehicles/Mounts, etc. If I have one hour to play, and it takes me 45 minutes to reach a destination for a quest, I’ve basically been paying to watch a toon ‘walk’ for 45 minutes. That makes me feel like I wasted my money rather than like I accomplished something. However a world should be interesting enough to at least be ‘eye candy’ as you travel no matter which method.

 

 

Conflict

PvP VS PvE

 

A: Both of course! You must cater to players who enjoy PvE/PvP/Both to pull in the largest possible audience. However, there should be areas set out as ‘Safe/PvE’, ‘Dangerous/PvE+PvP’ and then of course pure ‘Battlegrounds/PvP’. I also believe conflict should have an overall affect on the world – PvP and PvE should both affect things such as the current economy/resources and even what areas are dangerous / safe. There should be a level of ‘conquest’.

 

 

Questing

Lots VS Few VS None

 

A: LOTS. And not the same clone garbage which most MMORPG’s have, but many interesting ‘stumble upon’ quests in a mostly sandbox world. I would actually sacrifice quantity for quality, but in a perfect MMORPG, you’d have both.

 

 

Gameplay

Sandbox VS Structured

 

A: Sandbox with elements of a structured MMORPG which allows the most freedom for players to play the game and go about their business as they wish to do so, but also guiding them enough so that they aren’t thrown into a world completely clueless and lost. Some aides in game just make sense and aren’t ‘Holding your Hands and walking you across the street’, but tools which if they weren’t implemented, people would be frustrated thinking ‘Why the heck can’t I have a guy show me on the map where this place is?’ for example.

 

 

Death Penalty

Harsh / Light / None / Perma

 

A: There should be some, but not enough to discourage the player or flat out piss them off. You SHOULD be made to care about the life of your character but dying shouldn’t be a game breaker for casual players. One thing I would love to see is if every time you died, you gain a new scar/disfigurement. Perhaps in ‘Hardcore’ zones only where stakes are highest, you can even lose a hand or foot and be ‘handicapped’ in battle until you can pay a small fortune to have someone replace it through magic/technology.

 

 

Items

Crafted VS Drops VS Equal

 

A: I’ve never been one for crafting but I think the people who work hard to produce something SHOULD be compensated for their efforts, so I’m going to have to go with CRAFTED items being better than normal equipment on average [such as average weapons or armour sets you can buy from vendors] however, there should be some extremely legendary stuff which is so ancient and powerful and incredibly hard to get that it trumps even the best crafted gear. Also players should be able to get decent equipment without resorting to pay insane prices for crafted things. I think the AESTHETIC nature of crafted items should come into play – allowing crafters to simply make much better looking items, making people want to buy those things because let’s face it, everyone wants to ‘look cool’.

 

 

Zones

Zoned VS Seamless

 

A: While I love the idea of a seamless world, I think there should be zones but by name only. The world should be seamless [except quest instances] so I should be able to walk through a field towards a forest and know that when I cross into the woods ahead, it’s basically a whole new world of danger. Large zones with load times don’t bother me so much but do break immersion slightly. With the theory I’ve just discussed, it feels a lot more natural and realistic to me.

 

 

Poulation

NPC's VS Players

 

A: NPC’s are a necessity and I do think that the economy driven by players is a dangerous thing. The company running the game should carefully monitor and regulate the economy by compensating through resources of the world and vendor prices.

 

 

Grouping

Soloing VS Grouping

 

A: Although I personally love to group up, even I love to play solo sometimes and apparently, so do most MMORPG players. Thus you have to cater to both solo players and cooperative players. I would love to see a dynamic difficulty system implemented which can perhaps gauge the ability of a player during a quest and adjust the enemy to provide a difficult but doable experience. Some areas would be much more lenient than others of course.

 

 

Advancement

Rapid VS Steep

 

A: Advancement should reward players for what they do. It shouldn’t be too quick but the focus of the game should try to steer as far from making ‘leveling’ and grinding all important as possible. The fact is however there will always be grinders, and there will always be more casual players and you have to somehow meet in the middle to suit them both.

 

 

Graphics

High End VS Modest

 

A: I honestly believe that you can have a great looking game that won’t destroy the average PC and offers an excellent amount of scalability to suit everyone from Low to High End machines. LOTRO I think does quite well with this for example. It’s all about having a good engine in place and brilliant developers.

 

 

Corpses

Looting VS No Looting

 

A: Personally I prefer not to have my things looted and I think most players don’t want to lose their gear when they die in battle. Perhaps again, in more ‘Hardcore’ areas this rule could change with ample warning to players, but for the most part I have to go with No looting.

 

 

Classes

Mutli VS Single

 

A: If there are classes, I think I prefer general classes which branch off to a set of specializations followed by masteries. Single classes leave so much to be desired and multi-classing often just makes you really weak at two things instead of being at least fairly capable at one thing.