Whatever their goal or objective is, it isn't interesting me. It may be a pretext to enforce harsh policies, to talk dirty, to expect XYZ from their members.
I like my freedom. If I see a guild motivation is to limit my freedom, I go elsewhere. And a guild with a 18+ label is a clear sign of that...and if they insist that they want me, I am really scared and join ANY other guild to close the debate.
Kids at best are open minded, they are friendly, they are nice, they are willing to please everyone. Kids at worst are brash, unthinked, immoral(not bad, immoral as in, I didn't think about that in this way).
If anyone put the focus on their age, usually it is an excuse for something bad...it is a justification. And justifications are things I don't like, as they are there because of a problematic. However, if a PvP-minded guild would put an age requirement of 30-, it would make me laugh a LOT and I would try to help them in a way or another. :P
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I was thinking about this the other day, imo the biggest problem is NO ONE is inforcing any of the restrictions now days (what is the point in having a rating on a video game if no one is going to inforce it). Young people will ALWAYS do things they're not suppose to, we all did, but in doing so we knew the chance we were taking would result in some sort of penalty. Now days no one pays any attention to whats going on, and the sad part is that its the people from my generation that are the ones that are suppose to be paying attention and inforcing those penalties. There is no fear factor in society anymore, young people don't know what its like to be scared of something unless someone is shooting up there school (which is far to extreme of an example)
That is prolly a little off topic but in addition to this, I prefer a guild with mostly people that are 30+ simply cause south park qoutes, how high you are or how many times you can call someone a fag or say the word rape gets very tiring very fast to someone like myself. I am not saying all young people are like this, unfortunatly though alot of them are. In hinde sight if you want to guild up with mature people, than be mature, your age won't matter.
While I am on a rant, what is the deal with not having "monitored age restricted servers"? Something about a 13 or 14 y/o kid playing a video game everyday with someone 10 or 20 years older than them doesn't sit right with me...
Oh wait BLAME THE PARENTS! (that will solve everything)
Don't confuse a players ability, with a class being Over Powered.
Ever since I turned 18 I've had much less time than I did when I was younger. Reason being I have a job now. My schedule is pretty crazy. When I was in high school before I started working I had an easy schedule that I could plan around. I'd rather have someone who was still in school personally.
Our experiences are pretty much polar opposites.. when I was in education I'd be at school/college/uni all day then either socialising or revising/doing coursework during the evenings and sneaking in a few hours gaming as and when I could.
Now that I've left education and have a 9-5 my schedule is way more manageable. Back when I was raiding in WoW, I was able to commit to about 3 raid sessions (4 hour continuous raids) a week without a problem.
Everyone's different of course, but I do believe that on average adults have a lot more control over their free-time when compared with the under 18s.
I can't understand people are so butthurt about this.
The age is the only measurement you can have that reflects a stage in a persons life that is to interest in the clan/guild.
18yo usually are just finished with school, or are in college (thinking otuside the US too). Most of the people don't have their parents shutting down their computer at 10:30pm and telling them to go to bed. Between 16 and 18 is mentally, and socially quite a big of a difference.
Exactly as telfoneddie said; when an important person to your guild leaves because of "oh no my mommy doesnt like me to play so much anymore", it takes a big hit to all of the guilds game experience.
Yes ofcourse there are 12yo that act really mature, and there are 25yo that need to go back to kindergarten. But on AVERAGE 18+ people are more mature, have more control over their real life so that they can succeed in game to whatever you are playing for.
I myself am 21 yo, live on myself, lived through quite a few things. Moved out and about, moved countries even. This doesnt mean that i am mature, definately not. But a 21yo has generally more life experience, social experience, and is just better to focus their time to when they need to, than a 16yo (time focus i mean: If raid starts at 6pm, and u finish at 12pm, u usually can sit through another hour to 1am and take 1hr less sleep).
As i said, the age is the only real measurement that you can put as a rule in a clan/guild, as well as an easy way to reject members.
I dont mind playing with people that are under 18, as long as they can act normal and handle the grown up stuff, join the club.
I was thinking about this the other day, imo the biggest problem is NO ONE is inforcing any of the restrictions now days (what is the point in having a rating on a video game if no one is going to inforce it).
Precisely.
I try to buy and play M rated games. I got F.E.A.R. thinking it'll have the mindset of the DX community. Was totally wrong. On their forums there are parents letting their 12 year-olds play a game with adult themes so disturbing it should be considered child abuse for them to play it (e.g., Alma is raped at 13 years-old and imprisoned to die, not once but twice). Mods don't say a thing enforcing the M rating on the forums, so you can expect they don't give a damn if 12 year-olds buy or stole it, either.
Then when I got BF2142, I gritted my teeth because it has a T rating, thinking every brat on Earth would be playing the game. Guess what? It's one of the nicest game communities I've been on, despite it being a FPS, and the 12 year-olds who play the game the parents play with them. No blood, no guts, but no want of everyone playing the game as fighters.
It's not the age I care so much about, as some kids can be mature and not just act the part. What I'm more concerned about is the mindset of a community, and if it attracts the sociopathic element or not. I don't want to play a game with folks who think it's fun plucking wings off of flies; let alone guilds that think it's fun killing unarmed newbies, then claiming they're the n00bs. Darwinism in games is nothing like it is in real life, as these wimps would be the first to keel over, as there's no hack/cheat/store to save them -- nor a cry of "n00b" will prevent them being cannon fodder.
Games should be what they claim to be. If it's for 18+, then enforce it. Gaming would be much more fun, too.
I find it odd that many guilds add a 18+ age limit. After playing through a fair share of guilds in wow, through vent i learned that many of the good, alot of the time better then the older players, and are just as mature. Ive always wondered why they would cut out that age group.
NEW POLL MORE OPITIONS GO DOWN
TBH most guilds that tack 18+ allow exceptions to the rule for younger players who are mature. While there are 18+ that are asshats and more immature than your average 5 year old and there are <18's that are more mature than your average 25 year old it is a simple fact that more people over 18 are mature than people under 18. Thus many guilds make a rule of 18+ or even 21+. Hell I know of a couple guilds in MMO's not to be named that have 25 as their 'minimum' age. Though in every case every single guild I've known has made exceptions for those that are deemed mature enough by the membership.
Personally I prefer guilds that have an age limit. If for no other reason than it's just wierd playing a video game with someone who could be my kid's buddy at school
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
For some people, it's a matter of just wanting to be comfortable.
For those teens out there reading or participating in this thread, when you speak with a five-year-old do you filter what you say and how you say it? I would hope the answer would be yes. There are topics that are appropriate, informative and interesting for a five-year old. There are also subjects that I would hope a teenager would recognize are probably not appropriate to discuss with a five-year old without their parents' express permission, and much thought into how to address the topics. I would hope that the teenager would also be careful in how they spoke, most likely not using the same language and attitude that they would with their own friends and peers.
This isn't bad. It isn't indicating that you dislike five-year olds or disrespect them. It means that you maintain a filter, as being a good member of society. Similarly, people maintain filters at work and church. To be polite and properly socialized, there are norms of behavior that you maintain when in those situations.
A 40-year-old should also maintain strong filters around teenagers, just like teenagers should around five-year olds. It's part of the social contract. People with a social conscience make an effort to stand up as role models to kids, give them advice, try to help steer them clear of trouble, and not discuss or glamorize a whole myriad of sensitive subjects without their parents' express permission and a whole lot of thought.
Part of what friends offer is a chance to "let your hair down". It's nice sometimes to be able to just hang out with your pals and not have to keep the filters up. Some people like the idea of tight-knit guilds that are more or less like a group of friends.
After a long day at the office, sometimes it's nice to be able to kick back, have a few beers, and just chat with your pals without having to worry about trying to set the right example for kids who are in your channel, watching your language, avoiding sensitive topics, and having to decide how to deal with kids who mention that they either do or are thinking about smoking, drinking, using drugs or engaging in sex. A teenager making a comment that reveals something like that, either over the public guild channel or in a /tell, suddenly changes the MMO for all adults who receive that information from being a game into an obligation. They now have to think about the issue and decide if they want to take up the responsibility themselves of trying to educate the teenager on the legality and dangers of what they're doing, whether they want to inform the parents, etc. It's a huge burden.
Yes, it's a burden we take up every day in public, at church, and in other circumstances. But it's rare that 40-year-olds "hang out" with teenagers, without those teenagers' parents being present. And always those are circumstances where the filters are up and strong.
Sometimes you just want to relax and let your hair down. And it's much, much easier for a 40-year old to do so in an adult-only guild.
I run a guild in Tabula Rasa (and other games) and we have a 19+ rule (basically you have to be out of HS to join).
It's for stability mostly. When you let in younger players you're taking a chance on their projected maturity and could either meet, exceed, or fall short of your expectations. To think that just because someone is 19+ years old they are automatically mature is silly, sure, but on the other hand this policy has left my guild as basically the last big guild left standing on my server after all of the others fell apart due to internal turmoil.
My "mother" guild or whatever, my guild from SWG that my current guild I consider an autonomous extension of, had this same policy and almost from launch until to this very day it remains the largest guild on Chilastra which is quite a feat considering it's only ever been Imperial only and does not allowed alts to be guilded in other guilds either. The guild is IA btw if anyone is curious.
It's just a protection policy in the end but it also comes down to voice comms issue. I'm an adult that just spent six years active duty in the Army. I sound like it in RL. I don't want to filter myself on voice comms any more than I want to filter myself when I go to a bar with my RL friends. Children's ears simply don't belong around my adult mouth.
Here's my top ten reasons why I don't like gaming with under 21 players. And I raise the bar to 21, because I find that these days most 20 year olds are just as pathetically and hopelessly immature and clueless as 18 year olds.
(1) Incessant whining for in-game help with things anyone should be able to accomplish solo
(2) They often brag about how amazing they are.
(3) They more frequently beg for in-game cash.
(4) They always want to "friend" me and send me tells CONSTANTLY, then send me group invites CONSTANTLY.
(5) They are always leaving raids because "mom is calling me" or "dinner is ready" or "my brother needs to use the computer."
(6) They generally have no concept of "strategy" and are less likely to follow a raid leader's directions.
(7) They are often impatient in raids and either complain about taking time to plan out battles or they just charge forward and aggro everything.
(8) When they write sentences, they have no concept spelling or punctuation and I have to work too damn hard to try to understand what they are saying. (Just read this thread; most of the people complaining have sloppy, unintelligible posts).
(9) I am tired of hearing about them "getting drunk" or "getting laid." First, they are usually lies anyways. Second, I always have a wife and a beer in the next room, so I don't want to hear about it.
The 18+ guilds generally dont interest me. TBH .. 18+ guilds are generally run by 19-21 year olds who think they are *world-wise* .. kinda sad.
Generally I look for guilds that are looking for *Mature* members. Age is a base reflection of maturity .. but its not the be-all and end-all. I've come across 15yr olds that I'll guild with .. and 40yr olds I would'ent join a PUG with ..
Personally i'm in my late 30's .. have traveled a fair bit .. trained as an Eletrical Engineer and for a few year's managed a steel mill. (Anyone who's worked in the steel industry can enlighten you on that) After the deaths of a couple of good friends at work I left Britan and moved to the USA .. getting out of the steel industry.
Now not to be rude .. but *most* of the people i meet online are Americans .. and TBH your schooling system is bolloxs. Most young people in the US come out into the world with a mouth-full of spoon fed crap and have no real clue on how the world works. Sad but true. Unless you lucked out and got into a good school .. chances are it was'ent until a fair few years after leaving that your eyes were opened to the world. So generally i dont spend alot of time with the *younger* americans i happen across online. Not to say all are like that .. i give everyone a fair chance .. but it only takes a few spoon fed answers for me to label someone *immature* .. I dont mean that in a bad way ... I guess i should say Ignorent really. Just that people have to live in the real world to relate .. and unfortunatly this does not seem to happen for most americans until they hit thier mid-20's.
Really .. I know i'm gonna get flamed to hell here ... but its true. My own step-son (now 22) is just getting to the stage where i can hold a decent conversation with him about the real world. Its not the fault of the americans .. your education system is the pits
This is why I tend to look for *mature* guilds ... I can relate to people that have actually lived. I left school at 15 and started in the steel mills as an apprentice. No i did'ent drop out .. i left school after passing all my exams .. the american system tends to shelter thier kids (or trys to .. schools are getting worse daily with gangs etc) until 18-19. By that age i owned 2 houses and had been at work near 4 years !!
Before you tell me i dont know crap ... i was there when my step-son was in school .. i seen the crap they were teaching him .. sad sad. Funny thing is .. my best mate and Raid tank in my WoW guild was a guy who dropped out of school .. married early and worked construction. He lived in the real world .. we could relate. /shrug.
So bottom line .. 18+ guilds are (in my experiance) generally trying to be something they are not. Mature guilds are what i look for .. and yer i am the annoying twat who will talk to 3 or 4 of your officers and question them each for an hour .. read near your entire website before I even commit to a trial in your guild .. i dont take joining guilds lightly .. i join i tend to stick it out. Thats my advice to people looking for a guild .. if the officers are too busy to talk to you .. or just come across as immature etc .. they are a reflection of the guild .. take it as you will.
(Sorry for the US education system rant .. gets under my skin since my step-son is a smart lad and i feel hes been robbed by a sub-par system)
Age doesn't mean much and the guilds that are under that illusion are silly.
If anything i think it has more to do with the content of the guild in terms of Lifestyles and Language.
I got in a deep drug conversation in the guild and some kids do cringe at stuff like that or even Sex Talks.
I actually remember one time we lost a member cause appearently his mom was monitoring him playing and oh well. looks like we gave her a bit of a scare so i dont think he'll be playing WoW for a good couple years.
Age doesn't mean much and the guilds that are under that illusion are silly. If anything i think it has more to do with the content of the guild in terms of Lifestyles and Language. I got in a deep drug conversation in the guild and some kids do cringe at stuff like that or even Sex Talks. I actually remember one time we lost a member cause appearently his mom was monitoring him playing and oh well. looks like we gave her a bit of a scare so i dont think he'll be playing WoW for a good couple years.
Cause clearly World of Warcraft is the place to be having these conversations...
Contrary to a pot heads belief not everyone in the world does drugs or cares to hear about it. With that said, I am sure some one out there will be interested.
And before the first person posts trying to justify anything by saying "they're looking for terrorists" Lemme ask you do you really think they're going to over look people talking about drugs? The next time you log onto vent and start running your mouth consider who is listening and or recording that conversation.
(btw this post wasn't completely directed at Ceredwynn, just something to think about)
Don't confuse a players ability, with a class being Over Powered.
The fact that RL age matters so much to so many shows me that the promise of this genre is unfulfilled. Because if we played the games in the way they were originally intended to be played, the character is the thing that should matter, not the player who plays it. >>>>>SNIP because it didn't relate to what I wanted to say>>>>> But to all of us in our 20's and 30's, do we really have anything in common with people in their 50's and 60's, or beyond? Retired folks have even less ambition than teenagers, and are probably even less interesting to talk with than the kids. in 30 years, I predict that many of us are going to be playing MMOs. After all, you have a lot of time when you retire, and a lot of time that can be devoted to MMOs. And if the guilds really aren't interested in hanging with the teenage crowd, think about how stone cold uninterested they'd be with the prospect of hanging with your old geriatric ass? Something to think about.
You might be surprised. My guild in LoTRO doesn't mind that I'm 53 and two steps away from filing for disability which makes me a pretty bad player. But I carefully stay away from WoW and I explained the entire situation to them before I joined (being carefull to look at a 'casual player' guild.)
Age doesn't mean much and the guilds that are under that illusion are silly. If anything i think it has more to do with the content of the guild in terms of Lifestyles and Language. I got in a deep drug conversation in the guild and some kids do cringe at stuff like that or even Sex Talks. I actually remember one time we lost a member cause appearently his mom was monitoring him playing and oh well. looks like we gave her a bit of a scare so i dont think he'll be playing WoW for a good couple years.
Cause clearly World of Warcraft is the place to be having these conversations...
Contrary to a pot heads belief not everyone in the world does drugs or cares to hear about it. With that said, I am sure some one out there will be interested.
And before the first person posts trying to justify anything by saying "they're looking for terrorists" Lemme ask you do you really think they're going to over look people talking about drugs? The next time you log onto vent and start running your mouth consider who is listening and or recording that conversation.
(btw this post wasn't completely directed at Ceredwynn, just something to think about)
Well censorship on Warcraft is a joke in itself. Sure that's why they made filters but the content.... well sometimes when you're playing for more than 2 hours in that day and having the level of social networking that WoW has there is a strong chance that people especially older people will go into these kinds of conversations. there are people that will chat differently than how they talk in person and then there are people who won't. I personally thought that all WoW players never touched a Cigarette, a Beer bottle, Or a Bong. To my surprise there are alot more wild college/university students out there that are simular if not worst than some of the people i personally know in college and university.
Cause clearly World of Warcraft is the place to be having these conversations... Contrary to a pot heads belief not everyone in the world does drugs or cares to hear about it. With that said, I am sure some one out there will be interested. http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/02/nations-spies-w.html And before the first person posts trying to justify anything by saying "they're looking for terrorists" Lemme ask you do you really think they're going to over look people talking about drugs? The next time you log onto vent and start running your mouth consider who is listening and or recording that conversation. (btw this post wasn't completely directed at Ceredwynn, just something to think about)
As good a place as any. MMO's are social networks and they contain people, and people talk about all kinds of stuff. Dont like it, well..then dont listen! People complaining about adult talk are like those people that hear that a tv channel is broadcasting uncensored sex, then change the channel to watch it, and after having seen it all, cry bad the next day to whatever news media stupid enough to listen to their nonsical ramblings.
Oh, and the monitoring crap, its just the US being utterly paranoid again. Homeland security need stuff to do after all . To be honest, a country where something like the Patriot Act exists, which clearly breaks with their constitution by the way, that stuff aint surprising. Im so bloody happy I dont live down in crazy land, allthough my country got a few loose screws itself too. Another point is that their laws aint international. They can monitor me prattle on about drugs and alcohol, about muslim rights, terrorism, homemade bombs and so on vent as much as they want cause there aint a thing they can do about it.
The topics are unbearable, the testosterone level is unbearable, the "lol look@ me uber gear" is unbearable, the "cmon mum, just 10 more minutes pleeeeease" is unbearable, the "sorry gotta eat" is unbearable, the "hey u a grl in RL?" is unbearable...
There's a fair amount of things that drive me MAD about kids. It's got nothing to do with maturity, it's just about lifestyles. I'm a narrow-minded bastard in this particular field, if someone says "sorry, my lil one's crying again" I'd be like "ok cool, *smile*", I just can't bear this "I live with my mum and I care about food, school and World of Warcraft"-attitude (which is, to be honest, totally normal as a teenager)
The very fact that you dont understand why some guilds have age limits indicates a good reason why many of them do.
The guild i've been in for years is The Older gamers. We have an age limit of 25. Why, because we all share the same things that adults share. many of us have kids, when it's time to attaend to them other players understand...we talk about our kids. We have adult careers and responsibilities, these effect our game time and level of commitment....we understand these things with each other. We talk about things that happened say back in the 80's. Have you ever seen the Dead Kennedy's in concert? I have kids in real life, that doesnt mean i want to spend my gaming time with kids.
I think the reason why people use 18+ is because they are concerned that they might say something in the guild that could affect people under 18. To be honest i think it is a good idea to let people know that there might be people in the guild that talk about stuff that is not for under 18's but if you think about it most of the players are around 15 years old.
18+ just means dont act like a "12 year old". And if you cant understand what I mean without splitting semantics then you probably need a few more years.
In my experience (and im sure people have had it exactly opposite) 18+ usually comes from the guilds that are hardcore or wish to be hardcore and do not wish to have drama. But, these same guilds usually have players that say niger or faggot every other word that comes from their mouth. These guilds are also usually riddled with drama. I really dont care what people say in guild chat or vent/teamspeak unless something becomes personal.
The truly genuine guilds that show the MOST maturity (in my experience) have been the family oriented guilds where kids play with their parents and siblings or even grandparents, but all are welcome. Here, it is a strict rule not to say anything offensive and if you do, you usually receive an awkward response along with a warning from one of the members. Ive been in both guilds and while I find myself enjoying the crazy things that people say in the "18+ only" guilds, i have found that people in the family oriented guilds care more about the player not the game which in the long run is really nice.
Comments
When a guild says 18+...
I go look elsewhere! :P
Whatever their goal or objective is, it isn't interesting me. It may be a pretext to enforce harsh policies, to talk dirty, to expect XYZ from their members.
I like my freedom. If I see a guild motivation is to limit my freedom, I go elsewhere. And a guild with a 18+ label is a clear sign of that...and if they insist that they want me, I am really scared and join ANY other guild to close the debate.
Kids at best are open minded, they are friendly, they are nice, they are willing to please everyone. Kids at worst are brash, unthinked, immoral(not bad, immoral as in, I didn't think about that in this way).
If anyone put the focus on their age, usually it is an excuse for something bad...it is a justification. And justifications are things I don't like, as they are there because of a problematic. However, if a PvP-minded guild would put an age requirement of 30-, it would make me laugh a LOT and I would try to help them in a way or another. :P
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I was thinking about this the other day, imo the biggest problem is NO ONE is inforcing any of the restrictions now days (what is the point in having a rating on a video game if no one is going to inforce it). Young people will ALWAYS do things they're not suppose to, we all did, but in doing so we knew the chance we were taking would result in some sort of penalty. Now days no one pays any attention to whats going on, and the sad part is that its the people from my generation that are the ones that are suppose to be paying attention and inforcing those penalties. There is no fear factor in society anymore, young people don't know what its like to be scared of something unless someone is shooting up there school (which is far to extreme of an example)
That is prolly a little off topic but in addition to this, I prefer a guild with mostly people that are 30+ simply cause south park qoutes, how high you are or how many times you can call someone a fag or say the word rape gets very tiring very fast to someone like myself. I am not saying all young people are like this, unfortunatly though alot of them are. In hinde sight if you want to guild up with mature people, than be mature, your age won't matter.
While I am on a rant, what is the deal with not having "monitored age restricted servers"? Something about a 13 or 14 y/o kid playing a video game everyday with someone 10 or 20 years older than them doesn't sit right with me...
Oh wait BLAME THE PARENTS! (that will solve everything)
Don't confuse a players ability, with a class being Over Powered.
-T
Now that I've left education and have a 9-5 my schedule is way more manageable. Back when I was raiding in WoW, I was able to commit to about 3 raid sessions (4 hour continuous raids) a week without a problem.
Everyone's different of course, but I do believe that on average adults have a lot more control over their free-time when compared with the under 18s.
I can't understand people are so butthurt about this.
The age is the only measurement you can have that reflects a stage in a persons life that is to interest in the clan/guild.
18yo usually are just finished with school, or are in college (thinking otuside the US too). Most of the people don't have their parents shutting down their computer at 10:30pm and telling them to go to bed. Between 16 and 18 is mentally, and socially quite a big of a difference.
Exactly as telfoneddie said; when an important person to your guild leaves because of "oh no my mommy doesnt like me to play so much anymore", it takes a big hit to all of the guilds game experience.
Yes ofcourse there are 12yo that act really mature, and there are 25yo that need to go back to kindergarten. But on AVERAGE 18+ people are more mature, have more control over their real life so that they can succeed in game to whatever you are playing for.
I myself am 21 yo, live on myself, lived through quite a few things. Moved out and about, moved countries even. This doesnt mean that i am mature, definately not. But a 21yo has generally more life experience, social experience, and is just better to focus their time to when they need to, than a 16yo (time focus i mean: If raid starts at 6pm, and u finish at 12pm, u usually can sit through another hour to 1am and take 1hr less sleep).
As i said, the age is the only real measurement that you can put as a rule in a clan/guild, as well as an easy way to reject members.
I dont mind playing with people that are under 18, as long as they can act normal and handle the grown up stuff, join the club.
Precisely.
I try to buy and play M rated games. I got F.E.A.R. thinking it'll have the mindset of the DX community. Was totally wrong. On their forums there are parents letting their 12 year-olds play a game with adult themes so disturbing it should be considered child abuse for them to play it (e.g., Alma is raped at 13 years-old and imprisoned to die, not once but twice). Mods don't say a thing enforcing the M rating on the forums, so you can expect they don't give a damn if 12 year-olds buy or stole it, either.
Then when I got BF2142, I gritted my teeth because it has a T rating, thinking every brat on Earth would be playing the game. Guess what? It's one of the nicest game communities I've been on, despite it being a FPS, and the 12 year-olds who play the game the parents play with them. No blood, no guts, but no want of everyone playing the game as fighters.
It's not the age I care so much about, as some kids can be mature and not just act the part. What I'm more concerned about is the mindset of a community, and if it attracts the sociopathic element or not. I don't want to play a game with folks who think it's fun plucking wings off of flies; let alone guilds that think it's fun killing unarmed newbies, then claiming they're the n00bs. Darwinism in games is nothing like it is in real life, as these wimps would be the first to keel over, as there's no hack/cheat/store to save them -- nor a cry of "n00b" will prevent them being cannon fodder.
Games should be what they claim to be. If it's for 18+, then enforce it. Gaming would be much more fun, too.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
TBH most guilds that tack 18+ allow exceptions to the rule for younger players who are mature. While there are 18+ that are asshats and more immature than your average 5 year old and there are <18's that are more mature than your average 25 year old it is a simple fact that more people over 18 are mature than people under 18. Thus many guilds make a rule of 18+ or even 21+. Hell I know of a couple guilds in MMO's not to be named that have 25 as their 'minimum' age. Though in every case every single guild I've known has made exceptions for those that are deemed mature enough by the membership.
Personally I prefer guilds that have an age limit. If for no other reason than it's just wierd playing a video game with someone who could be my kid's buddy at school
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
It's about maturity... nuff said
we really dont require a person to be 18 yrs old to join our guild.. as long as the player is a active gamer they are in
..............
For some people, it's a matter of just wanting to be comfortable.
For those teens out there reading or participating in this thread, when you speak with a five-year-old do you filter what you say and how you say it? I would hope the answer would be yes. There are topics that are appropriate, informative and interesting for a five-year old. There are also subjects that I would hope a teenager would recognize are probably not appropriate to discuss with a five-year old without their parents' express permission, and much thought into how to address the topics. I would hope that the teenager would also be careful in how they spoke, most likely not using the same language and attitude that they would with their own friends and peers.
This isn't bad. It isn't indicating that you dislike five-year olds or disrespect them. It means that you maintain a filter, as being a good member of society. Similarly, people maintain filters at work and church. To be polite and properly socialized, there are norms of behavior that you maintain when in those situations.
A 40-year-old should also maintain strong filters around teenagers, just like teenagers should around five-year olds. It's part of the social contract. People with a social conscience make an effort to stand up as role models to kids, give them advice, try to help steer them clear of trouble, and not discuss or glamorize a whole myriad of sensitive subjects without their parents' express permission and a whole lot of thought.
Part of what friends offer is a chance to "let your hair down". It's nice sometimes to be able to just hang out with your pals and not have to keep the filters up. Some people like the idea of tight-knit guilds that are more or less like a group of friends.
After a long day at the office, sometimes it's nice to be able to kick back, have a few beers, and just chat with your pals without having to worry about trying to set the right example for kids who are in your channel, watching your language, avoiding sensitive topics, and having to decide how to deal with kids who mention that they either do or are thinking about smoking, drinking, using drugs or engaging in sex. A teenager making a comment that reveals something like that, either over the public guild channel or in a /tell, suddenly changes the MMO for all adults who receive that information from being a game into an obligation. They now have to think about the issue and decide if they want to take up the responsibility themselves of trying to educate the teenager on the legality and dangers of what they're doing, whether they want to inform the parents, etc. It's a huge burden.
Yes, it's a burden we take up every day in public, at church, and in other circumstances. But it's rare that 40-year-olds "hang out" with teenagers, without those teenagers' parents being present. And always those are circumstances where the filters are up and strong.
Sometimes you just want to relax and let your hair down. And it's much, much easier for a 40-year old to do so in an adult-only guild.
I run a guild in Tabula Rasa (and other games) and we have a 19+ rule (basically you have to be out of HS to join).
It's for stability mostly. When you let in younger players you're taking a chance on their projected maturity and could either meet, exceed, or fall short of your expectations. To think that just because someone is 19+ years old they are automatically mature is silly, sure, but on the other hand this policy has left my guild as basically the last big guild left standing on my server after all of the others fell apart due to internal turmoil.
My "mother" guild or whatever, my guild from SWG that my current guild I consider an autonomous extension of, had this same policy and almost from launch until to this very day it remains the largest guild on Chilastra which is quite a feat considering it's only ever been Imperial only and does not allowed alts to be guilded in other guilds either. The guild is IA btw if anyone is curious.
It's just a protection policy in the end but it also comes down to voice comms issue. I'm an adult that just spent six years active duty in the Army. I sound like it in RL. I don't want to filter myself on voice comms any more than I want to filter myself when I go to a bar with my RL friends. Children's ears simply don't belong around my adult mouth.
Here's my top ten reasons why I don't like gaming with under 21 players. And I raise the bar to 21, because I find that these days most 20 year olds are just as pathetically and hopelessly immature and clueless as 18 year olds.
(1) Incessant whining for in-game help with things anyone should be able to accomplish solo
(2) They often brag about how amazing they are.
(3) They more frequently beg for in-game cash.
(4) They always want to "friend" me and send me tells CONSTANTLY, then send me group invites CONSTANTLY.
(5) They are always leaving raids because "mom is calling me" or "dinner is ready" or "my brother needs to use the computer."
(6) They generally have no concept of "strategy" and are less likely to follow a raid leader's directions.
(7) They are often impatient in raids and either complain about taking time to plan out battles or they just charge forward and aggro everything.
(8) When they write sentences, they have no concept spelling or punctuation and I have to work too damn hard to try to understand what they are saying. (Just read this thread; most of the people complaining have sloppy, unintelligible posts).
(9) I am tired of hearing about them "getting drunk" or "getting laid." First, they are usually lies anyways. Second, I always have a wife and a beer in the next room, so I don't want to hear about it.
(10) They use "733t" speak.
The 18+ guilds generally dont interest me. TBH .. 18+ guilds are generally run by 19-21 year olds who think they are *world-wise* .. kinda sad.
Generally I look for guilds that are looking for *Mature* members. Age is a base reflection of maturity .. but its not the be-all and end-all. I've come across 15yr olds that I'll guild with .. and 40yr olds I would'ent join a PUG with ..
Personally i'm in my late 30's .. have traveled a fair bit .. trained as an Eletrical Engineer and for a few year's managed a steel mill. (Anyone who's worked in the steel industry can enlighten you on that) After the deaths of a couple of good friends at work I left Britan and moved to the USA .. getting out of the steel industry.
Now not to be rude .. but *most* of the people i meet online are Americans .. and TBH your schooling system is bolloxs. Most young people in the US come out into the world with a mouth-full of spoon fed crap and have no real clue on how the world works. Sad but true. Unless you lucked out and got into a good school .. chances are it was'ent until a fair few years after leaving that your eyes were opened to the world. So generally i dont spend alot of time with the *younger* americans i happen across online. Not to say all are like that .. i give everyone a fair chance .. but it only takes a few spoon fed answers for me to label someone *immature* .. I dont mean that in a bad way ... I guess i should say Ignorent really. Just that people have to live in the real world to relate .. and unfortunatly this does not seem to happen for most americans until they hit thier mid-20's.
Really .. I know i'm gonna get flamed to hell here ... but its true. My own step-son (now 22) is just getting to the stage where i can hold a decent conversation with him about the real world. Its not the fault of the americans .. your education system is the pits
This is why I tend to look for *mature* guilds ... I can relate to people that have actually lived. I left school at 15 and started in the steel mills as an apprentice. No i did'ent drop out .. i left school after passing all my exams .. the american system tends to shelter thier kids (or trys to .. schools are getting worse daily with gangs etc) until 18-19. By that age i owned 2 houses and had been at work near 4 years !!
Before you tell me i dont know crap ... i was there when my step-son was in school .. i seen the crap they were teaching him .. sad sad. Funny thing is .. my best mate and Raid tank in my WoW guild was a guy who dropped out of school .. married early and worked construction. He lived in the real world .. we could relate. /shrug.
So bottom line .. 18+ guilds are (in my experiance) generally trying to be something they are not. Mature guilds are what i look for .. and yer i am the annoying twat who will talk to 3 or 4 of your officers and question them each for an hour .. read near your entire website before I even commit to a trial in your guild .. i dont take joining guilds lightly .. i join i tend to stick it out. Thats my advice to people looking for a guild .. if the officers are too busy to talk to you .. or just come across as immature etc .. they are a reflection of the guild .. take it as you will.
(Sorry for the US education system rant .. gets under my skin since my step-son is a smart lad and i feel hes been robbed by a sub-par system)
I've been surprised many a time when I found out someones age.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Age doesn't mean much and the guilds that are under that illusion are silly.
If anything i think it has more to do with the content of the guild in terms of Lifestyles and Language.
I got in a deep drug conversation in the guild and some kids do cringe at stuff like that or even Sex Talks.
I actually remember one time we lost a member cause appearently his mom was monitoring him playing and oh well. looks like we gave her a bit of a scare so i dont think he'll be playing WoW for a good couple years.
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Cause clearly World of Warcraft is the place to be having these conversations...
Contrary to a pot heads belief not everyone in the world does drugs or cares to hear about it. With that said, I am sure some one out there will be interested.
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/02/nations-spies-w.html
And before the first person posts trying to justify anything by saying "they're looking for terrorists" Lemme ask you do you really think they're going to over look people talking about drugs? The next time you log onto vent and start running your mouth consider who is listening and or recording that conversation.
(btw this post wasn't completely directed at Ceredwynn, just something to think about)
Don't confuse a players ability, with a class being Over Powered.
-T
You might be surprised. My guild in LoTRO doesn't mind that I'm 53 and two steps away from filing for disability which makes me a pretty bad player. But I carefully stay away from WoW and I explained the entire situation to them before I joined (being carefull to look at a 'casual player' guild.)
Cause clearly World of Warcraft is the place to be having these conversations...
Contrary to a pot heads belief not everyone in the world does drugs or cares to hear about it. With that said, I am sure some one out there will be interested.
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/02/nations-spies-w.html
And before the first person posts trying to justify anything by saying "they're looking for terrorists" Lemme ask you do you really think they're going to over look people talking about drugs? The next time you log onto vent and start running your mouth consider who is listening and or recording that conversation.
(btw this post wasn't completely directed at Ceredwynn, just something to think about)
Well censorship on Warcraft is a joke in itself. Sure that's why they made filters but the content.... well sometimes when you're playing for more than 2 hours in that day and having the level of social networking that WoW has there is a strong chance that people especially older people will go into these kinds of conversations. there are people that will chat differently than how they talk in person and then there are people who won't. I personally thought that all WoW players never touched a Cigarette, a Beer bottle, Or a Bong. To my surprise there are alot more wild college/university students out there that are simular if not worst than some of the people i personally know in college and university.
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As good a place as any. MMO's are social networks and they contain people, and people talk about all kinds of stuff. Dont like it, well..then dont listen! People complaining about adult talk are like those people that hear that a tv channel is broadcasting uncensored sex, then change the channel to watch it, and after having seen it all, cry bad the next day to whatever news media stupid enough to listen to their nonsical ramblings.
Oh, and the monitoring crap, its just the US being utterly paranoid again. Homeland security need stuff to do after all
. To be honest, a country where something like the Patriot Act exists, which clearly breaks with their constitution by the way, that stuff aint surprising. Im so bloody happy I dont live down in crazy land, allthough my country got a few loose screws itself too. Another point is that their laws aint international. They can monitor me prattle on about drugs and alcohol, about muslim rights, terrorism, homemade bombs and so on vent as much as they want cause there aint a thing they can do about it.
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
The topics are unbearable, the testosterone level is unbearable, the "lol look@ me uber gear" is unbearable, the "cmon mum, just 10 more minutes pleeeeease" is unbearable, the "sorry gotta eat" is unbearable, the "hey u a grl in RL?" is unbearable...
There's a fair amount of things that drive me MAD about kids. It's got nothing to do with maturity, it's just about lifestyles. I'm a narrow-minded bastard in this particular field, if someone says "sorry, my lil one's crying again" I'd be like "ok cool, *smile*", I just can't bear this "I live with my mum and I care about food, school and World of Warcraft"-attitude (which is, to be honest, totally normal as a teenager)
Meridion
The very fact that you dont understand why some guilds have age limits indicates a good reason why many of them do.
The guild i've been in for years is The Older gamers. We have an age limit of 25. Why, because we all share the same things that adults share. many of us have kids, when it's time to attaend to them other players understand...we talk about our kids. We have adult careers and responsibilities, these effect our game time and level of commitment....we understand these things with each other. We talk about things that happened say back in the 80's. Have you ever seen the Dead Kennedy's in concert? I have kids in real life, that doesnt mean i want to spend my gaming time with kids.
I think the reason why people use 18+ is because they are concerned that they might say something in the guild that could affect people under 18
. To be honest i think it is a good idea to let people know that there might be people in the guild that talk about stuff that is not for under 18's but if you think about it most of the players are around 15 years old.
Most video gamers are not around 15 years old. At least thats what the studies show.
18+ just means dont act like a "12 year old". And if you cant understand what I mean without splitting semantics then you probably need a few more years.
In my experience (and im sure people have had it exactly opposite) 18+ usually comes from the guilds that are hardcore or wish to be hardcore and do not wish to have drama. But, these same guilds usually have players that say niger or faggot every other word that comes from their mouth. These guilds are also usually riddled with drama. I really dont care what people say in guild chat or vent/teamspeak unless something becomes personal.
The truly genuine guilds that show the MOST maturity (in my experience) have been the family oriented guilds where kids play with their parents and siblings or even grandparents, but all are welcome. Here, it is a strict rule not to say anything offensive and if you do, you usually receive an awkward response along with a warning from one of the members. Ive been in both guilds and while I find myself enjoying the crazy things that people say in the "18+ only" guilds, i have found that people in the family oriented guilds care more about the player not the game which in the long run is really nice.