MUDS and Everquest - Why MMO's are they way they are

Johnhost

When I went to camp one year we learned the telephone game.  The campers would sit in a circle and one of the campers would come up with a message.  They would then tell that message to the person to their right, and that person would in turn relay the message to the person on their right, etc, etc.

Finally when the message would be said out loud to the group.  Usually the message would be something very different then original message given.  That is like MMO's.

We all really owe it all to Gary Gygax and Tolkien for their creation of the traditional roleplaying fantasy genre.  And from D&D and Lord of the Rings sprung hundreds if not thousands of roleplaying games for the PC and consoles.  In the eighties technology didn't give us the ability for fancy graphics so the game focused on skill and imagination.  Later graphics improved and the "hack 'n slash" was born.  Somewhere along the time several RPG franchises become very popular like Ultima and The Elder Scrolls.  Alongside these great single player games were BBS door games like LORDS.

When the internet became available MUDS were invented to replace BBS door games.  One major flaw to MUDS was it was all text and you had to imagine everything, players wanted graphics.  The problem with single player games like The Elder Scrolls series was once you beat the game it was all over. 

Ultima and Meridian 59 were among the first to release a massively multiplayer online game.  True to RPG gaming convention at that time, they were stat based, skill heavy massive worlds.  The idea being an adventure that is shared and never ended.  But these games were isometric and no true 3D TES style.

Then came Everquest.  By today's standards it is brutal, unforgiving in it's corps runs.  The game required grouping and the world was massive and had to be explored on foot.  But when you compare it to games like Daggerfall, it's actually quite modern.  Remember EQ launched in 1999.  Games like Rainbow Six were coming out at that time, online gaming was mostly just shooters.  RPG's in general were pretty ugly graphics.

But what really made EQ special was how addicting it was.  I don't think anyone realized how fanatical players were about their avatars.  It was simply unthinkable to "loose your corps" entirely.  People lost jobs, spouses and countless hours recovering their corps.  Hours, weeks, months and years were lived in the Everquest world. 

It's no surprise that when Blizzard decided to turn their hugely popular Warcraft series into an MMO that Everquest was their model.  In fact at that time it was THE model of how you make a MMORPG.

Interestingly enough single player RPG's have moved on.  TES Oblivion is an example of how casual the genre has gotten.  Before the worlds were huge with little transportation options.  Now you can simple port about with ease.  The downtime and tedium has been reduced and is continually being removed for the ADD/ADHD generation.  Shooters are developing variations in gameplay, truely inventive new forms of gameplay like Portal are available.

And yet MMO's continually churn out the same old same old.  I don't blame Blizzard for copying EQ.  It was in it's day THE winning formula.  And even with WoW they made it more casual then EQ.  But somehow even when the amazing technical possibilities of modern games, developers continually stick to the EQ model. 

EQ weaved together TES and D&D rules in a very LOTR world and did it brilliantly, but today's MMO's need to reinvent the genre by making what is FUN and building on that. 

These forums have beat the dead horse of what players want for years.  And I doubt very much we will see any true invention for a long time.  But somehow if a company can break the mold and find out what really is fun and make THAT game, they wont just be a WoW killer, but become the mold themselves that others will shameless copy.

Nadia

Originally posted by Johnhost


 
 
Interestingly enough single player RPG's have moved on.  TES Oblivion is an example of how casual the genre has gotten.  Before the worlds were huge with little transportation options.  Now you can simple port about with ease.  The downtime and tedium has been reduced and is continually being removed for the ADD/ADHD generation.  Shooters are developing variations in gameplay, truely inventive new forms of gameplay like Portal are available.
And yet MMO's continually churn out the same old same old.

Diablo was a popular action RPG to have quick transport options - its nothing new

 

 

Oblivion is not an  example - its an exception

most *new *single player RPGs are terrible and are WORSE than RPGs used to be

Kasmar

True, Diablo does have quick transport, but only to areas you have already visited.  You must still walk to new areas and find the transporter before it is active.

 

 You are really going to make the WoW players mad.  They would like to believe that Blizzard invented the MMO and EQ copied WoW.   Now see what you have done.

 

therain93

Originally posted by Johnhost


When I went to camp one year we learned the telephone game.  The campers would sit in a circle and one of the campers would come up with a message.  They would then tell that message to the person to their right, and that person would in turn relay the message to the person on their right, etc, etc.
Finally when the message would be said out loud to the group.  Usually the message would be something very different then original message given.  That is like MMO's.
We all really owe it all to Gary Gygax and Tolkien for their creation of the traditional roleplaying fantasy genre.  And from D&D and Lord of the Rings sprung hundreds if not thousands of roleplaying games for the PC and consoles.  In the eighties technology didn't give us the ability for fancy graphics so the game focused on skill and imagination.  Later graphics improved and the "hack 'n slash" was born.  Somewhere along the time several RPG franchises become very popular like Ultima and The Elder Scrolls.  Alongside these great single player games were BBS door games like LORDS.
When the internet became available MUDS were invented to replace BBS door games.  One major flaw to MUDS was it was all text and you had to imagine everything, players wanted graphics.  The problem with single player games like The Elder Scrolls series was once you beat the game it was all over. 
Ultima and Meridian 59 were among the first to release a massively multiplayer online game.  True to RPG gaming convention at that time, they were stat based, skill heavy massive worlds.  The idea being an adventure that is shared and never ended.  But these games were isometric and no true 3D TES style.
Then came Everquest.  By today's standards it is brutal, unforgiving in it's corps runs.  The game required grouping and the world was massive and had to be explored on foot.  But when you compare it to games like Daggerfall, it's actually quite modern.  Remember EQ launched in 1999.  Games like Rainbow Six were coming out at that time, online gaming was mostly just shooters.  RPG's in general were pretty ugly graphics.
But what really made EQ special was how addicting it was.  I don't think anyone realized how fanatical players were about their avatars.  It was simply unthinkable to "loose your corps" entirely.  People lost jobs, spouses and countless hours recovering their corps.  Hours, weeks, months and years were lived in the Everquest world. 
It's no surprise that when Blizzard decided to turn their hugely popular Warcraft series into an MMO that Everquest was their model.  In fact at that time it was THE model of how you make a MMORPG.
Interestingly enough single player RPG's have moved on.  TES Oblivion is an example of how casual the genre has gotten.  Before the worlds were huge with little transportation options.  Now you can simple port about with ease.  The downtime and tedium has been reduced and is continually being removed for the ADD/ADHD generation.  Shooters are developing variations in gameplay, truely inventive new forms of gameplay like Portal are available.
And yet MMO's continually churn out the same old same old.  I don't blame Blizzard for copying EQ.  It was in it's day THE winning formula.  And even with WoW they made it more casual then EQ.  But somehow even when the amazing technical possibilities of modern games, developers continually stick to the EQ model. 
EQ weaved together TES and D&D rules in a very LOTR world and did it brilliantly, but today's MMO's need to reinvent the genre by making what is FUN and building on that. 
These forums have beat the dead horse of what players want for years.  And I doubt very much we will see any true invention for a long time.  But somehow if a company can break the mold and find out what really is fun and make THAT game, they wont just be a WoW killer, but become the mold themselves that others will shameless copy.

You really just provided a brief history from your persepctive, you didn't live up the subject and explain why. 

Czzarre

Again, this premise suggests that making a game player friendly (i.e. Casual friendly) is bad. From the standpoint of transportation. EQ1 was very difficult, it was one of the first MMORPG that realized how important, powerful, and ultimatly valuable  transportation in a huge game enviornment is (especially on a truely massive scale). Wizard and druids with their portals charged money for taxi service Players spamming zones asking for "SOW". JBoots being the most camped item in the game. This was the realization and was an obvious source of problems for the playerbase (anyone whos camped for Jboots can understand this)

I am not here to defend whats turning into another "I hate WOW..and thus all MMORPGS" thread. HOwever, quicker transport just allows players to get to what they want to do (makes the players happy) and by making the different areas of the world (instances/dungeons/Bosses,/etc) more accessable, they get used more (Makes the devs happy).

I wrote an article about what Blizzard did right and Wrong with WOW. Take a look HERE

In the end, I believe with good design, MMORPGs can be both challenging AND Casual friendly

Torrential

altairzq

Yes, Everquest was a world to live in. MMOGs now are just games. I play WoW and I enjoy it a lot, but doesn't feel like a world.

nomadian

very true, at least what is shown is for such a game you need some layer of persistance, and therefore advancement to distinct it from multiplayer. The question is whether the 'MM' is needed. I mean how did muds(a limited number of players?) turn into massively multiplayer with someone having the bright idea to have thousands of people on a server? I suppose thinking about it, it makes money sense.

nariusseldon

Originally posted by Johnhost



And yet MMO's continually churn out the same old same old.  I don't blame Blizzard for copying EQ.  It was in it's day THE winning formula.  And even with WoW they made it more casual then EQ.  But somehow even when the amazing technical possibilities of modern games, developers continually stick to the EQ model.

There is a good reason. Psychology has discovered that repetitive activities with a probabilistic reward are very addicting to humans. Slot machines is a good example. The success of hack-n-slash games are also good examples. MMORPGs are built on this powerful psychology.

There is no reason to change something that works so well.

 

punkrock

i never liked EQ it was really boring. know UO and DAOC  were real better games