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Player Houses + Player Owned Cities: Why So Overlooked?
Netzoko
Member Posts: 1,271
I can't seem to understand why features like housing and cities are so overlooked. Everyone I know lists their favorite SWG feature as the player city and house system... it was simply amazing. I could go off about how MMOs are no longer virtual worlds but rather single player RPGs, but that's a different topic.
Why is it that this hasn't reemerged in new upcoming games like AoC, Aion, WAR... It seems all these developers worry about are fancy graphics and more quests. Maybe the typical MMOer jas changed, but I can't get over the fact that this isn't a massively desired feature.
Thoughts?
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Comments
My guess is this.
Because all games currently in the mmorpg market are grind games people don't have enough time to build houses, furnish them, and run them. Even vanguard, which offers housing and player made cities, is a huge time sink. There is no way the majority of players can spend 4-6 hours a day playing an mmorpg. The majority of mmorpg subscribers never even make it to max level in most games, wow excluded. So in reality, it is my impression that most gamers in the mmorpg scene play about 2-4 hours a week, because they also play other games too. For example mass effect, tfc, etc. etc.
So the answer to that question based on my own perception is that games don't offer it because no one has time to do it. I think that's why uo was so successful with its housing. Everyone who reached maxed level had a house, furnished, and loaded with items and npcs. It made walking in the wilderness fun. But in uo you could reach max level in a month of casual play. In these other games it takes like five months of casual play. Maybe i'm slow, or maybe its the fact that after playing for five hours once a week and only gaining 2 levels, I get burned out. But i can imagine that most gamers are like me, and less like the hardcore, since they require food and water to live.
Well for one thing AoC does pretty much have Player Owned Cities, no house's that i know of but a guild city is good enough if not better.
And another reason is what gameplay aspect does player housing really bring to the game? its a nice little added o, ill go afk in my house or maybe store items in there or something but really id rather have a developer work on the gameplay aspects such as combat, dungeons, crafting before any player houseing was involved.
And if you really want a player house go play sims, you can buy furniture, set people on fire, murder your family it's a fun game if you want to buy a new sofa and put up some pictures.
Also about the whole MMO's no longer virtual worlds there geting more virtual then most previous MMO's, look at DAOC, and there RvR, and new AoC's upcoming Seigeing (should be alot of fun or a flop, well see)
Think about it. What would a player house do except to be a glorified bank vault? All the hack-n-slash games are focused on combat & adventure. Players will not be spending a lot of time in their house.
Development resource is limited. I would much rather a developer spends their resources on new areas, new quests and new items as opposed to player housing.
player houses are an integral part of any decent player run economy.
DOWN WITH AUCTION HOUSES!
PoH and things like that are for the role-players really. Nice feature to have, but think about it. People play games for fun. ESPECIALLY casual gamers. The more a game can focus on the action combat and glorious gameplay, the less people will wanna spend time in their virtual home. Isn't the real life version hard enough to maintain? Hardcore gamers would love it but I'd imagine the vast majority of players wouldn't use it enough to make it worthwhile. My 2 cents
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
MMORPG - Massively Multiplayer Online ROLEPLAY Game.
If the roleplayers do not get what they want what MMO Gamers are?
A player owned housing system does not have to be a long tedious grind like many aspects of current MMOs. I think it would be a great feature of an MMO if implemented correctly. Not only would it bring the same sense of individuality that comes with detailed character customization, but it would be a sort of sense of pride - the same way a person wears his highest tier Robe of Wisdom fully decked out with glowing trim.
Whether or not it's practical in the gaming sense all depends on the developer's imagination and creativity. If devs really want something to work, they'll make it work. The MMO community just needs to let them know.
(ps: Ascension08 was not bashing your post at all, just using yours as a starting point)
Which FF Character Are You?
Housing and cities require a lot of coding and a lot of server resources. It's difficult to market and "sell" these ambiance elements in a game, since they are like the icing on the cake. The gameplay, however, is the cake itself, and there's more payoff for resources placed in there, as opposed to ambiance elements.
But I have to disagree that the casuals don't want player housing. To me, it's the hardcore that always complains about things like "why spend all this time on this foofoo crap when [insert class here] is broken?," or "we just ran encounter x, y, and z fifty times, weneed more content ASAP!" After all, there's nothing more "casual friendly" than decorating a house. But because the hardcore just want phat lewts and to pwn all, developers are compelled to do nothing but provide phat lewts and limit everything to the quest to pwn.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
MMORPG - Massively Multiplayer Online ROLEPLAY Game.
If the roleplayers do not get what they want what MMO Gamers are?
A player owned housing system does not have to be a long tedious grind like many aspects of current MMOs. I think it would be a great feature of an MMO if implemented correctly. Not only would it bring the same sense of individuality that comes with detailed character customization, but it would be a sort of sense of pride - the same way a person wears his highest tier Robe of Wisdom fully decked out with glowing trim.
Whether or not it's practical in the gaming sense all depends on the developer's imagination and creativity. If devs really want something to work, they'll make it work. The MMO community just needs to let them know.
(ps: Ascension08 was not bashing your post at all, just using yours as a starting point)
It's all good. I agree if they made housing more of a side thing, with options to really deck it out if you wanted, it'd be a nice kind of ambient feature for me.
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
I really dont care what my avatar looks like, and a sense of individuality isn't anything I'm looking for. I also take no sense of pride wearing my gear, nor its looks. All I care about is that it doesn't look too stupid and it gives me great stats that help me destroy my opponents.
On that note, I have no use for player housing, useless fluff that usually destroys player community by segregating all the players in their own little cubbyholes. I want to see all the crafters in town, not hunt them down in their own private houses.
There are far more players that feel as I do, rather than as you an the rest of the role-players, so we get games designed that way. Don't feel bad though, it all comes around, I'm still waiting for a good FFA PVP game...which I may never see again.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I was sad that with the introduction of player cities, starports became abandoned. For instance, in Theed, the starport area was thriving with players. Go there day or night and there were throngs of people hawking their wares, crafting, dueling or just hanging out. It was a real sense of community. Once player cities were introduced, it spread people all over, and as a result there were maybe two people at any one time in front of the starport. Go to a player run city, and there were maybe five people there at any one time, if that (unless there was a guild meeting taking place in a PRC). It was horrible. This is, of course, my opinion and experience. I understand others may not view it as I do.
So, yes to player housing, no to player cities (at least the way they were implemented in SWG).
On that note, I have no use for player housing, useless fluff that usually destroys player community by segregating all the players in their own little cubbyholes. I want to see all the crafters in town, not hunt them down in their own private houses.
Good point, but housing does not have to be just the same old cubbyhole that many people perceive them to be. If a dev actually wanted, it could be the center of pvp action - without even being instanced.Like you, I also enjoy the PvP aspect of MMOs. So why not make a house an interesting PvP area?
Think about it: A mansion owned by some random player that you really feel like assassinating. You climb up the side of the house Splinter Cell style via vines or small gaps between the bricks. Lift yourself over the balcony and stealthily spy on the target and his group just as they are about to leave for a hunt. The target comes to the balcony to get a better view of the horizon. As he stands and watches the landscape you pop up from behind and snap his neck, or knife him.
Or take a different approach and bring your own group to raid the house. Interesting battles would ensue- almost Call of Duty style, with people all over the house, some above some below. Everyone firing their spells, shooting their arrows, clashing their swords and spears. A house does not just have to be for show - if implemented creatively, it can be a thriving battlefield.
Which FF Character Are You?
I think housing and crafting are KEY elements to long term play with broad appeal.A house is something to strive for and keep you in the game. It's a symbol of accomplishment. It's a place that is unlike any other...it's yours and is decorated the way you want.House ownership is not something you walk away from easily.Working tward getting a house is doing something other than xping to level. It gives you another focus...and takes your eye and mind away from leveling.Crafting also provides a leveling break and new mental challenges that xping may not..and can build a bank account to be able to afford some of the finer..more expensive thing in the game.FOR me a game that has housing is a step above so many of the have nots. From a marketing standpoint..it surely says try me....we have housing...that many of our competators do not have.
Man kyleran sorry you feel that way bro
Well written post even though I dont feel the same.
I dont consider myself a role player per se but I'd love to have a house to show off and invite other players too.
Imagine the possibilities. We could have player created quests around houses. Houses might be a player created dungeon where you can encounter unique quests. Rich players might dangle some loot. Maybe devs could code random drops from monsters that players place
I think of what housing can be and I just salivate....
<note, Achiever types would looove to have a house to show off some rare loot in glass cases. PVPers would love to show off all their skulls from victims haha>
Remember, player housing was introduced before player cities in SWG. Having a house is one thing. Having a city with a shuttle port, bazaars, and the like is another.
Also, EQ2 has player housing within non-player created (static?) cities. That has worked very well, IMO. You get your own house, yet it does not reduce the population of a city. In fact, it keeps a healthy population within the city.
The recent podcast interview on Wife-aggro.com with Masthead dev's on the Earthrise title, brought the statement that guild based encampments(player built) are in from very start and that player housing/apparments are a serious possibility in the first content update based on the communities input.
Check it out after scanning the game site, you may be interested.
* Life is not black or white, it's shades of grey. But, at it's best/worst, it hints at 32bit color. -Me (a.k.a. RuthlessTimes)
* I do not need to know how to make a better game than you. I just need to know how to cancel my subscription. -Antarious(a slight misquote but the sentiment remains)
I was thinking that a few days ago and posted this:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/172007
i think it would be a fun game to play.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
On guild-based encampments... COOL. They are encampments, not cities. All good.
On housing/apartments... COOL.
Again, I don't know if you were agreeing or disagreeing. Either way, your points are well taken by me, and I agree with you.
I didn't visit your link and I won't.
Np Lolcat,
I guess my word 'encampments' should be better thought of as bases of operation. It seems that it's one guild pvp base per area that serves the purpose of gathering hard to aquire crafting materials(as most everything ingame is crafted) and gives meaning behind pvp. ...ie.- You've got what we need prepare to defend yourselves.
Anyhow, I didn't add a link but I thought you might be interested in keeping updated on the title, atleast from this sites mainpage, just an FYI.
* Life is not black or white, it's shades of grey. But, at it's best/worst, it hints at 32bit color. -Me (a.k.a. RuthlessTimes)
* I do not need to know how to make a better game than you. I just need to know how to cancel my subscription. -Antarious(a slight misquote but the sentiment remains)
Because companies don't want to code and maintain that part of the code. It's a variable, and one that isn't as easy to manage (as it will keep on adding to the .sql file). It's why you won't see the customizing features MUDs have on object creation. They want to minimize any INPUT into the database.
Bad enough they have to do a hard reboot every week (man if businesses had to take their sites down 3hrs every 7 days, they'd lose a mint).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
And, BTW, encampments are universally known as "bases of operation". Kinda synonymous... know what I mean?
Yep gotcha!,
Oh, well, my!! Real Sorry there about the 'tasteless attempt'(FFS!!!) to share info. about an in development MMO on MMORPG.com.(another little non-clickable link just ....for you precious. Fraking lmao).
Honestly, what right would I have, on a site entirely devoted to current and future MMO gaming info., to ever think you may actually have an interest in a title that may have closely fit your gaming needs.
As for 'tasteless', it's funny how quickly I now see you the same way. ../raise eyebrow ../snicker
* Life is not black or white, it's shades of grey. But, at it's best/worst, it hints at 32bit color. -Me (a.k.a. RuthlessTimes)
* I do not need to know how to make a better game than you. I just need to know how to cancel my subscription. -Antarious(a slight misquote but the sentiment remains)
I like player owned houses/cities but they are of somewhat limited appeal; not everyone likes/bothers with them and they do take time/effort to put into games.
One of the great things in SWG was plonking down a remote house surrounded with harvesters and with a vendor terminal inside it; people would travel a long way just to come and buy things from it because I was a dedicated crafter and always had great stock and competitive prices.
Unfortunately, modern MMO's tend to look at houses like (as someone mentioned above) fancy bank vaults; that's ok to an extent but purely instanced housing really kills the "feel" of having a house in the first place. I think the best approach to housing that I've encountered recently is LOTRO; they have instanced neighbourhoods with 20 or so houses of varying size/price and you have to continue manually paying rent every few weeks or you lose yours; so there are no "long dead" houses like there were in SWG/UO.
AoC's housing model looks interesting though I haven't been able to check it out as thoroughly as I'd like; but the shallower games such as WoW/WAR don't seem to value the concept of player-housing in the slightest.
My opinions may be biased as, being a roleplayer, the ability to own a house is a very valuable RP tool and adds a lot of options.
In thinking more about the subject, I realized I've played very few games with player housing, in fact, only one I can think of right now, DAOC. Just because they may not have implemented it poorly doesn't mean other systems like EQ 2 or SWG weren't quite good. So I shouldn't judge it on one experience.
Bring on the housing!
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
2. I hope I meet you, face-to-face one day.
God bless you.
3. If you're not turned on to politics, politics will turn on you.
You need a sandbox MMO for player housing and player citys. A gameworld that do not force you to "play" it, just exist in it.
Example: a friend of mine played SWG (pre-cu) and he didnt leave Mos Eisley the first year. He had a store (player house) and so much to do he didnt feel he needed to move.