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FRAUD
Anofalye
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,433
I cancel my account a LONG time ago.
And today I saw, on VISA, that they didn't register this "cancel" option apparently. I have to re-cancel today and see that I will still be subscribed for 1 more month...trying to steal $30 from me are you? Aren't you content that I actually TRY your game? And quite frankly, coming from SoE, I am surprised and have no patience whatsoever.
I purchase the game and play it 3 or 4 days (over a week or two, not in a row), then I cancel my sub. If there is "in waiting" or whatever other issues on THEIR side, this is not my concern. It is also not my concern to double check everything. It is their side of the responsability quite clearly here.
I am considering the option to contact VISA for a first time in my life, and to make them use their muscles on SoE fraudulous attempt.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Comments
its just a bloody mistake calm down and its probably yours...iv never had a problem with soe and money/sub
It is the first time it happen to me in years of dealing with many MMOs companies.
You can rule out the possibility that I made a mistake. I did hit the cancel button. Of course, I didn't follow up and double check, this isn't my responsability to make sure their website is functional, it write something like: Waiting or whatever when you cancel, instead of acknowledging it.
Again, technicals issues are THEIR side of the bargain, on every layer.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Wow...whine... =.=...
U know, it could be that your internet connection screwed up and the click didnt end up at SOE.
Either way, when dealing with money, always double check. It IS your own fault for not double checking.
The message CHANGE from subscribing to something else, so they register my cancel.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Anyone who has subscribed to one or more SoE MMORPG's over the years and frequents the forums for those games has seen this kind of thread before. Issues with the Cancel option on the Station Pass account website are not uncommon. That being the case, it is your responsibility to follow up and make sure your account was cancelled. If you did get billed after you thought you cancelled, give SoE a call and they will refund your money (because this is a known issue). Good luck.
As for waiting for it to cancel, you paid for a month, it will take a month for your account to close.
If they don't refund, I will ask VISA to block SOE and get it back, as it was a fraud. (charging after the customer hit cancel and get a visual confirmation that your website register this command is a fraud)
I am patient however and waiting a few days to see if their CS is any use. ATM they say stuff about the need to go on their webpage and the link doesn't work. Will retry later, but I expect to be heading to VISA CS in 3 days or so, as I don't expect SOE CS will resolve that. VISA will resolve everything however; the consequences for SOE however will be unfortunates, but if they leave me no other option...
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
One quick call to Visa and the problem is solved. This is a common problem with different purchases over the internet and the way credit card companies resolve this kind of "dispute" is virtually always in favor of their customer (you).
If you do use the visa fraud thingy, you will loose access to the accounts with that card with SoE games, and that card will never be accepted by SoE again. If you do search abit around you will see posts about it.
--
Leemeg.
Well, they should not do this kind of things but Im sorry to say, its YOUR money so its YOUR concern to double check everything. Nobody will do this for you. Anyway, Ihope they apologize for this and return you your money.
This is a common problem with SOE games, you and I were not the only ones to get charged without notice even after cancellation, I know a few guys that cancelled back in 2004 and still got charged months later. A couple years ago I only bought 3 months to play SWG then I cancelled not long before the time was up, a few weeks later I got a bill for another 3 month subscription and I checked into my station account and it said I purchased it even when the status said "closed" after cancelling.
It doesn't happen very often, but often enough that I know it has happened to a few people and myself.
This is not SOE's fault. Its yours. When you go to cancel a prompt pops up, with No and Yes buttons in that order. When I canceled my sub I didnt even bother reading and just clicked the left button where Yes usually is. Realizing something was amiss I went back and surely my sub was not canceled. So I tried again and this time actually read what was on the screen and clicked Yes.
That also takes about week to fix. Call your card company, and ask for a new card with a new number because of fraudulent use.
VISA stands by the company billed ie soe
so as long as sony send them peperwork they get to keep your money
Dont file the charge as fraud will visa will out going to soe customer service first it will be rejected and may go on your credit report, all they would need to do is state past payments as a reason its not fraud
Go to SOE customer service first it will do more good then you think because if later chanellged they will have records of you saying their billing system failed, if you also add in the fact they other user have had the problem in the past you stand the greatest chance of getting your money back either from soe or visa
p.s. AE is the only company that sides with the customer over the company
Can't speak for PotBS but this happened to me with EQ2. Spent about an hour on the phone with various CS reps but they ended up refunding me for what they charged my CC.
i filed a couple of complaints with the BBB about SOE and their "forgetting" to cancel subs.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
This happened to me with SWG where I got billed months after I cancelled, literally. I called SOE and they resolved the issue.
If SOE doesn't help you resolve it (which they most likely will) then call Visa. I don't think it is an issue of SOE blatantly trying to steal from the public (though I can't be sure) but more of an issue of SOE lacking overall quality control in nearly every aspect of their organization, thanks to John Smedley's incompetence.
Tecmo Bowl.
Below is a summary of all my interactions with SOE about this. I choose today that it was over, calling VISA tomorrow to ban SOE permanently from my VISA account and to refund me (happen 99% of the time, yet this is VISA decision, neither mine nor SOE).
I try to contact this special guy twice, and got an automated answer telling me that personnal email where not supported atm and that I should update my question instead...or something like that.
I would expect serious apologies and catering before I even consider any product with SOE name on it; the idea that they might be pissed or unhappy about this situation is presponderous. They are thugs trying to steal me, and I defend myself. End of the debate.
You will also notice that:
- I start very nicely and politedly.
(Then he say I need to contact a guy, I did that, message saying I can't reach him with an email. Anser CS directly, same message...I update my question down there)
- I made it clear it was unacceptable and that it was an ultimatum.
(Again the guy told me to contact a guy after telling me I was doing a fraud, while THEY are doing it, I did contact that guy, message saying I can't reach him with an email. I am furious and the debate is over)
- I slam the door on their nose.
(My final goodbye isn't worth showing to public eyes)
************************************************************
Recently you requested personal assistance from the Sony Online Entertainment Support center. Below is a summary of your request and our response.
We will assume your issue has been resolved if we do not hear from you within 72 hours.
I'm sorry but I'm unable to authorize a refund under the current circumstances. Mr Lyman Tuttle may be able to grant your request, but it would be at his discretion. While I can understand your position, performing a chargeback on an authorized charge is credit card fraud and we will tell the credit card company that these charges were authorized when they contact us. If you are serious about pursuing a refund, then Lyman Tuttle is the person you should be contacting at this point. I have included his e-mail below in case you deleted our previous response.
ltuttle@soe.sony.com
Thanks,
TSR Daniel H
I cancel, your website is hardcore and unintuitive and whatever you say, you are at fault and you know it. Check log entries. If your website malfunction when I cancel the first time, this is your problem. A customer should focus on pink and positive, cancelling is not exactly fun.
This is an ULTIMATUM.
Thank you for contacting Sony Online Entertainment. I do see your account is now cancelled, but we currently see no records of the account being cancelled prior. If you wished to pursue a refund in this case, you will need to contact our accounts administrator, Mr. Lymon Tuttle, at ltuttle@soe.sony.com and inform him of the situation.
If you have any other questions, concerns or issues please feel free to contact us again.
Sincerely,
Ken C
Technical Support Representative
Sony Online Entertainment
Make sure my account is cancelled as well, I re-did the cancel subscribtion thing, but if it didn't work back then, maybe it is still not working...
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
It happened to me 5months after the NGE, having canceled both my accounts on the day of the NGE.
There were 'NO' intrim charges. suddenly out of the blue, a one month sub to my main account. I logged into my SOE account info. and it was clear that my account was inactive. I checked my 2nd account to be sure and the same thing, inactive. This is 7days after my CC was charged according to my online CC billing information. Then again a one month charge after my 'free' vet return trial last summer.
First thing from that 'vet trial' that I noticed when logging back into the game was that my main account characters were exaclty where I had left them on the day of the NGE. All my toons ingame crd's were accounted for, as was everything they owned in their houses.
No-one had cracked my account. If they had, I would have been wiped clean or the very least the 29mil crd's my main had, would've been gone and I looked at my SOE account info again during the month I was billed, INACTIVE.
...Didn't even bother with SOE the second time this happened. CC company sided with SOE. My bank sided with my CC company. I then cancelled my CC, closed all my bank accounts and moved on to another bank and setup there.
Anyhow, I just wanted to be another in the list whose trying to express a genuine concern about this mysterious practice over at SOE.
On a side note, due to this, GTC's should become a basic practice for any title people want to play, in the future. If this doesn't fit your ideal payment method, as it's cheaper to buy game time in bulk online, atleast look into prepayed debits cards. I'm using one from MoneyMart for my MMO's in the future, eventhough, I have 2 valid CC's.
* Life is not black or white, it's shades of grey. But, at it's best/worst, it hints at 32bit color. -Me (a.k.a. RuthlessTimes)
* I do not need to know how to make a better game than you. I just need to know how to cancel my subscription. -Antarious(a slight misquote but the sentiment remains)
kk
so just get a prepaid CC for your next game then or a game card if they have it
that way they cant take whats not there
Sadly you will get no sympathy for this (I had a similar experience, posted on it it, l and was shot down in flames).
You will also find little help from the company. Do you have a cancellation code? If not, they won't help.The hard truth is that you do need to double check or you can't do much.. unless you are really willing to go down the painful and possibly quite counterproductive path of litigation which, in the case of a loss of $30, I would not recommend.
Let's face it, SOE happily sold many boxes of Vanguard, as well as subscriptions, to customers knowing full well the game did not work. I doubt many refunds were given for that.
Caveat emptor... just a shame that so many MMOs are so crappy. Its the nature of the industry. It is teh price we all pay for our addiction. The bright side is that when a really good new one finally arrives, it will be all the more glorious a day for it.
Did you actually take the time to read the SOE EULA?
If you did you will see that you are agreeing that SOE reserves the right to periodically charge your credit card for the monthy fee after you cancel for whatever reason they so desire.
Fixed
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Give a fish a man and he will eat for a month!
This make me REALLY angry.
It isn't the amount, it is the principle. You wouldn't want to be a Sony employee in front of me in RL atm.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Today I clear any status with VISA and request a closing.
Reason invoked: Fraudulous charges by SONY.
I expect crystal clear customer service from anyone, my "bank" give me that, they where relief and very nice when they see that my hatred was aimed at SONY and that I see VISA nor goodly, nor badly, just unworthy of my customer-ship.
SONY on the other hand, I keep all these files and I kinda await to see if they charge me 1 more month, that way, with these proofs, they get sued (local laws with "petites créances" would surprise them). This is NOT a warning, this is an OATH! This isn't exactly the type of relationship you want with customers, and they are responsible for it, from start, till the end. I hit their freaking cancel button back in February. If their server is buggy, if they have financial issues, if their wives leave them, not my problem.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren