I think we're looking at the same thing from a different angle. The game is going to fail if the basic gameplay is not in place, that's a given. I'm questioning the effect of high end raiding or high end PvP absence at launch, yes. But if the game is not fun in a basic level, the people that matter wont stick around for the end game content.
The title of this thread poses an interesting question. "Should the game be delayed?" My answer is yes if they can't release the game in a fun, bug free state. No if all is left is the high end stuff. These can come a couple months down the line.
Please note that (I believe) it will hurt the game if they don't come at all. How much is unknown, but my guess is that they can't wait more than WAR's release date. I don't think they are competing with WoW. Noone can at this point take players away from WoW, unless they are bored and want to move on. And even then, there is both the M rating (which I don't personally believe that it coincides with maturity) and the steeper game machine requirements.
Yeah maybe we agree. But i do think funcom is after a piece of the wow pie. Why else design a game that is so strikingly similar? And I also belive the devs have stated that they are not trying to bring new people into mmo's but instead taking some of the existing ones, ie wow's.
Wow works and Funcom knows that. I belive Funcom is trying to make the transition as smooth as possible for a wow player into AoC. It basically has the same rules. The combat system is basically the same. Talents/feats. No death penalty. Same dungeons, same type of gear, same classes.
The playerbuilt cities and fight for world keeps is unique to AoC though. That and the collision detection.
I hope AoC is good. But when they copy (harsh yeah I know but that my impression) the most succesful mmo out there they better be friggin splendid at release or AoC will go down the Vanguard way... or if they are not unique at release they will go down the Lotro way (ie not as bad).
And the unique part is the player cities and siege pvp imo.
Eventhough, I'd like to see a perfect launch with all the bells and whistles, which I never have and don't expect. I think another delay, of that length(June), would hurt their first quarter profit. It would still pick up through the mid-2nd quarter, from a later launch, but at a slower pace than it could've otherwise, by sticking to May.
So, I still think we get the game on the 20th, with any missing content that is currently planned, out by June-July.
EDIT-- Never, has Funcom stated that AoC was a WoW killer. Why presume this, when the sys. requirements and the M-rating would automaticaly preclude it? At best, it would be the tip of the spear in a serious decline in WoW and, again, if you claim that any MMO title was released perfectly, then you just weren't there.
Don't forget that even CB testers don't see the newest of the new content, as it's refered to as 'in development', but it's tested by the dev's and most of the original, handpicked, Alpha team.
Even after a launch the once beta servers, that are now test servers, only see stuff that has been already worked on for months.
So really, who else but Funcom knows the real state of the game as of today?
* Life is not black or white, it's shades of grey. But, at it's best/worst, it hints at 32bit color. -Me (a.k.a. RuthlessTimes)
* I do not need to know how to make a better game than you. I just need to know how to cancel my subscription. -Antarious(a slight misquote but the sentiment remains)
EDIT-- Never, has Funcom stated that AoC was a WoW killer. Why presume this, when the sys. requirements and the M-rating would automaticaly preclude it? At best, it would be the tip of the spear in a serious decline in WoW and, again, if you claim that any MMO title was released perfectly, then you just weren't there.
---
Oh if this was directed at my wow-ramblings I never ment wow-killer. I mean it as taking a couple of 100.000 players from players who have or are playing World of Warcraft. Not millions. Remember, wow is still growing by a couple of million subscribers/year. And if this is not Funcom's plan, why then make everything so similar to World of Warcraft? Funcom needs subscribers, the vast majority of AoC's future customers will have played WoW at some point in their lives. Thats what im saying.
And thats also why I say that AoC must have a smooth and succesful start. Otherwise not many will stay with it.
The MMO gender at this point in time comes with a big entrance barrier in terms of investment and quality necessary to be marginally successful as far as a AAA goes. So, not many people in the business are willing to experiment and will rather use (or re-use if you like) old ideas that worked in the past. The best you and I can expect is an evolution of the currently available mechanics, with better graphics in a different setting.
That been said and having some experience behind me, there are some fundamental differences between AoC and WoW. I'm not trying to claim that AoC is full of innovations, but it's a mistake to claim that they copied WoW in any form. Other games, yes. WoW, no. Perhaps some of the features that WoW copied from others can be seen in AoC, but that's about it.
Combat system is nothing alike. Combat in WoW is divided between white damage (auto attack) and yellow damage (specials). There is no white damage in AoC. Unless you press some key, nothing happens. The difference this little detail makes just broadens the way the difference in which the two games play, combat wise. There is collision detection. There is active blocking. You can't pass through somebody to avoid a spell cast. Everyone can stealth around. The differences really are more than the similarities.
Talent/feats. Lets start by saying that you could say that feats are the equivalent of WoW's talents. However, you also have skills and skill points. I would agree that they could add more skills (for those on the know), but the current ones do add an extra flavour to the talent trees. Back to the feats. Feats do not dictate how a character will play. For real this time. It doesn't matter which tree I select for healing, they both are viable. One is pro-active, the other is reactive. The output is the same. Then you have a feat tree that is shared among all archetypes. And you can get enough feat points to go down all the way in two feat trees.
About death penalty we know little at this point. Right now it's a stackable attributes debuff, that can be negated by going back to the point of death and reclaim your tombstone. The severity is light at the moment but nothing suggests that that won't change in retail or between different servers. You must also realise that the higher up you go in the levels, the more hostile territories become, so reclaiming a tombstone does become a real pain at some point.
Same dungeons ... well, I won't comment on that. It's too generic and suggests that all games that have dungeons copied WoW. Which is ridiculous.
Gear so far play little role both in PvP and PvE. The situation might change with crafted and raid gear available but going from 5% influence to 10% is not the same as 50% influence they have in WoW. Not by a long shot. So far the game does not seem to be gear oriented at all.
Same classes ... again proves little knowledge of AoC. WoW is all about the holy trinity. Tank, healer, dps. The only problem in AoC's case is that all classes are hybrids. All classes can do at least two things with a few covering all angles (arguably with limitations). Bottom line, AoC does put a twist in that mechanic as well. Whether people will like it or not remains to be seen.
Bottom line, in my opinion, this this the game that tries the least to imitate WoW. WoW is all about the common denominator. If they wanted to copy WoW as you claim, they would have dropped both the M rating and the system specs on the spot. Among other, more glaring things.
The game should not be released with ugly female avatars. Even if they are topless. I suppose we could put helmets over there heads...the equivalent of a brown paper bag.
Seriously though, if you're going to break the NDA, perhaps you should focus on issues that are actually important. Siege PvP don't have to be there for the launch, can take as long as 3 months and game will be fine. It will hurt the game only when the casuals make their tier X (no idea) city then have the resources to build the keeps etc. 3 months is lenient. No, I don't care about what the hardcore will do, they don't fund the servers. DirectX 10 is a nice feature to have, but it's definitely not top priority for the majority of the gamers out there. Most people will not have a capable GPU. Others will not have the system to run it acceptably. PvP ruleset is there, it's called FFA. Some people need to adjust to it, that's all.
As I said in another spot, they do have their priorities straight. And it is a beta.
Wow... you really think it doesnt matter if Siege PvP is in at release? This is one of the MAJOR features Funcom is pushing the game with.
And your statement that you dont care about "what the hardcore will do, they don't fund the servers." is contradicted by "PvP ruleset is there, it's called FFA. Some people need to adjust to it, that's all." where you say casuals have to adjust to hardcore players...
Amazing how fanboys get blind... just amazing...
I am following this game more then two years, but I agree wity you. Whay? Battle sieges are part of this game and it's natural to be in at release time. For me, sieges are most inportant part of game and I want to know, what i am buying.
Sieges will make AoC grate or fail.
I really hope for at least 100 vs 100 at the same time.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
I have no idea why people think that Sieges won't be in for release.. Its been publically said they are in the Beta a few times now. They were first shown publically some 8 months ago, and since then internally tested, they even let the public play a version at a Paris show like last september, albeit an internal version, nevertheless the cynical mindset of some is hilarious. Whats even far more funny is the fact that some of you are taking other peoples word as Gospel truth. You don't even know these people, wouldn't it be best to wait and see for yourselves? especially as you can do this for free!
I have no idea why people think that Sieges won't be in for release.. Its been publically said they are in the Beta a few times now. They were first shown publically some 8 months ago, and since then internally tested, they even let the public play a version at a Paris show like last september, albeit an internal version, nevertheless the cynical mindset of some is hilarious. Whats even far more funny is the fact that some of you are taking other peoples word as Gospel truth. You don't even know these people, wouldn't it be best to wait and see for yourselves? especially as you can do this for free!
Avery, why do you keep saying you can do this for free? I don't recall any game that has had an unlimited beta. Matter of fact, most of the AAA games that I can remember that had open beta did it via Fileplanet and such with limited keys that were gone within minutes. Please explain how and when people will be able to do this for free.
Thanks.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
I have no idea why people think that Sieges won't be in for release.. Its been publically said they are in the Beta a few times now. They were first shown publically some 8 months ago, and since then internally tested, they even let the public play a version at a Paris show like last september, albeit an internal version, nevertheless the cynical mindset of some is hilarious. Whats even far more funny is the fact that some of you are taking other peoples word as Gospel truth. You don't even know these people, wouldn't it be best to wait and see for yourselves? especially as you can do this for free!
Avery, why do you keep saying you can do this for free? I don't recall any game that has had an unlimited beta. Matter of fact, most of the AAA games that I can remember that had open beta did it via Fileplanet and such with limited keys that were gone within minutes. Please explain how and when people will be able to do this for free.
Thanks.
I took what he said as you can wait and see what happens for free.
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Shannia
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
I have no idea why people think that Sieges won't be in for release.. Its been publically said they are in the Beta a few times now. They were first shown publically some 8 months ago, and since then internally tested, they even let the public play a version at a Paris show like last september, albeit an internal version, nevertheless the cynical mindset of some is hilarious. Whats even far more funny is the fact that some of you are taking other peoples word as Gospel truth. You don't even know these people, wouldn't it be best to wait and see for yourselves? especially as you can do this for free!
Avery, why do you keep saying you can do this for free? I don't recall any game that has had an unlimited beta. Matter of fact, most of the AAA games that I can remember that had open beta did it via Fileplanet and such with limited keys that were gone within minutes. Please explain how and when people will be able to do this for free.
Thanks.
Well lets just say there will ample opportunity to try the game for free - for a limited time. If your resourcefull enough people can get their hands on a buddy key for example. There most likely will be a trial at some point too. I downloaded and tried beta for lotro free, whose to say conan wont be the same? In fact I've tried many games for free at somepoint via trials or whatnot. Its not about unlimited beta its about seeing if the game should be delayed from your impressions from it. There will be thousands of buddy keys going out there infact about 350k worldwide assuming if I remember 5 per CE edition and 70k editions made. Im also sure that this site and many others will have competitions too. Mmo's are socialable most people have friends in the genre in other games who will try AoC one way or another.
lets see what happens in 32 days time
EDIT: kinda just made the point both ways sorry didnt explain properly
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
The MMO gender at this point in time comes with a big entrance barrier in terms of investment and quality necessary to be marginally successful as far as a AAA goes. So, not many people in the business are willing to experiment and will rather use (or re-use if you like) old ideas that worked in the past. The best you and I can expect is an evolution of the currently available mechanics, with better graphics in a different setting.
That been said and having some experience behind me, there are some fundamental differences between AoC and WoW. I'm not trying to claim that AoC is full of innovations, but it's a mistake to claim that they copied WoW in any form. Other games, yes. WoW, no. Perhaps some of the features that WoW copied from others can be seen in AoC, but that's about it.
Combat system is nothing alike. Combat in WoW is divided between white damage (auto attack) and yellow damage (specials). There is no white damage in AoC. Unless you press some key, nothing happens. The difference this little detail makes just broadens the way the difference in which the two games play, combat wise. There is collision detection. There is active blocking. You can't pass through somebody to avoid a spell cast. Everyone can stealth around. The differences really are more than the similarities.
Talent/feats. Lets start by saying that you could say that feats are the equivalent of WoW's talents. However, you also have skills and skill points. I would agree that they could add more skills (for those on the know), but the current ones do add an extra flavour to the talent trees. Back to the feats. Feats do not dictate how a character will play. For real this time. It doesn't matter which tree I select for healing, they both are viable. One is pro-active, the other is reactive. The output is the same. Then you have a feat tree that is shared among all archetypes. And you can get enough feat points to go down all the way in two feat trees.
About death penalty we know little at this point. Right now it's a stackable attributes debuff, that can be negated by going back to the point of death and reclaim your tombstone. The severity is light at the moment but nothing suggests that that won't change in retail or between different servers. You must also realise that the higher up you go in the levels, the more hostile territories become, so reclaiming a tombstone does become a real pain at some point.
Same dungeons ... well, I won't comment on that. It's too generic and suggests that all games that have dungeons copied WoW. Which is ridiculous.
Gear so far play little role both in PvP and PvE. The situation might change with crafted and raid gear available but going from 5% influence to 10% is not the same as 50% influence they have in WoW. Not by a long shot. So far the game does not seem to be gear oriented at all.
Same classes ... again proves little knowledge of AoC. WoW is all about the holy trinity. Tank, healer, dps. The only problem in AoC's case is that all classes are hybrids. All classes can do at least two things with a few covering all angles (arguably with limitations). Bottom line, AoC does put a twist in that mechanic as well. Whether people will like it or not remains to be seen.
Bottom line, in my opinion, this this the game that tries the least to imitate WoW. WoW is all about the common denominator. If they wanted to copy WoW as you claim, they would have dropped both the M rating and the system specs on the spot. Among other, more glaring things.
I think you misunderstood me a little. What I mean is that the vast majority of future AoC- subscribers will have played WoW. Funcom knows this and have made AoC with that in mind. And I do belive that the holy trinity will come in play in AoC just like in WoW during the endgame. Low and midlevel wow does not require that the tank and healer are specialized. From Heroics onward they do however. Endgame dungeons and raids in AoC will of course be min maxed when it comes to feats and classes (we need CC, we need AoE, we need a REAL tank! etc).
And I highly doubt that gear in conan is just 5-10%... that cannot be true. I know gear is suppossed to have less impact on your char in AoC compared to WoW and im sure it will be, but that does not mean that the goal "to get gear" is any different.
I am talking about endgame, where all AoC players will be after whatever days /played. Thats where the balancing matters. Thats where the holy trinity comes to play. Thats when gear is the only way to improve your character. Do you want to craft? Then be prepared to take up raiding. Do you want PvP gear? Then do PvP. Do you want the best PvE gear? Then get ready to raid long nights together with 23 other people.
You're over simplifying things but I'll go along and say that a lot of people that will move to AoC will have some first hand experience with WoW, myself included among them. What drew me to this game however was not the WoW background, but the Lineage 2 background and to a lesser extend the UO background.
Regarding the holy trinity, I tried to explain how things are different (or seem different at this point). There is no dispute about the stupidity of the human nature, that tries to pigeon hole everything into specific categories and doesn't allow for some diversity. Even with this hybrid system, I'm pretty sure that eventually some know-it-all "experts" will emerge to educate the masses on how their classes should be played. I'm also sure that they'll have a much tougher job to do so than with WoW.
All soldier archetypes can tank as effectively. Guardian is the closest designed to what people are already familiar with, but even he can tank with the polearm (dual hand) or the one hand/ shield combo. They designed the game specifically so you see no difference in the end result.
Healers heal via HoTs most of the time. They have some extra tricks but that's the standard healing output for most fights. That means one thing, they can pro-actively heal (matter of choice really) and go along doing other things in the mid time. Some will melee, some will cast offensively, some will use their crowd control abilities. Watching bars is not the main focus, watching relative position between the people in the group and the mobs is. Reacting to combat situation is as well. I've done the "watch the health bar " game in WoW, I got tired of it.
I do expect some complains from people that are used in a certain way of playing and are now presented with an alternative. In WoW you have the "oh shit" heal to save the day. In this game you won't. You will need to navigate your own team members due to the collision detection to get to your target. You will need to play differently and this will bring complains. But there are already so many games that play similarly right now and you have this one that plays slightly different.
Why it is so hard to swallow that a game can revolve to something else than gear dependence? Gear ruined WoW. Each expansion and all gear are obsolete, all the time to reach the goal you mentioned go down the drain. So WoW flushes down the toilet gear with each expansion, that's how much importance they feel should have. Why not make a game that the impact is not that hard, so you won't need to dump them every X amount of time to maintain a meaningful gameplay?
Forgetting about the insane grinding in Lineage 2, what made the game fun was not the gear. It was the guild politics and the guild pride of owning a castle and maintaining it as much as possible, especially when the server is against you. The fight, the struggle, the pride is all that matters, it'll be all that you'll remember. Going back in the Wow days, I fondly remember all the first server kills, all the effort and frustration. Not the gear, gear are tools, good tools help but they are not the thing that ultimately matters.
Just one last note. All MMOs evolve. WoW in particular, since you mentioned it changed main goal 4-5 times in it's current lifespan. Things might change as well after launch, depending on what the player base will want and how well the developers will be able to react to it. But for now, what I said holds true. They would be utter stupid to try and make a clone. People would not leave their established guilds and friends to run off to the same thing. That's why both AoC and WAR are presented as something different to WoW. They saw the clones having a bad reception and they know they can't hope to gain a steady base by just rehashing the same old ideas. Whether they will succeed, we'll know for sure after launch.
From a few sources in beta I heard the game has shit loads of bugs and what not, and is definately not ready for 5/20 release.
They should wait a bit if they want the game to be successful.
Just a side thought though, how many of you think Age of Conan MIGHT get banned because of its contents? Honestly, i'll laugh in funcoms face when I see that.
Does the game need another delay? Well, both yes and no.
IMO it needs about another year. In this year, they got time to get back in the features that were so loudly announced and dropped or watered down later on.
But since the devs stated a couple of times that certain things (some of them considered as being game breaking by players) won't change or get changed back, they may as well release the game as it is now and end the endless hyped joke of their so called "next gen" title.
IMO they should release the game on May 20th and just listen to the feedback from players. Based on that they should patch every other week.
As far as the big things like Sieges are concerned: I won't mind if it takes them a month or two to implement it through a patch. I'm sure there is enough content in the game to keep us busy for that long. The real AoC addicts will understand what I'm saying: there is so much to see and to do besides the Sieges and the endgame raiding. Personally I want to look around a lot, test the combat system, explore the available cities, do some drunken brawling, get to meet other people and so on.
The only thing I hope for is that the minimum level isn't too fricking high for riding a mount since most of us have pre-ordered and received a free mount. It would be a slap in the face if you had to look at your mount for 40+ levels and couldn't use it! Why the hell did they give one for free then? It's like buying a Porsche but not being able to ride in it for a month
Does the game need another delay? Well, both yes and no. IMO it needs about another year. In this year, they got time to get back in the features that were so loudly announced and dropped or watered down later on. But since the devs stated a couple of times that certain things (some of them considered as being game breaking by players) won't change or get changed back, they may as well release the game as it is now and end the endless hyped joke of their so called "next gen" title.
IMO they should release the game on May 20th and just listen to the feedback from players. Based on that they should patch every other week. As far as the big things like Sieges are concerned: I won't mind if it takes them a month or two to implement it through a patch. I'm sure there is enough content in the game to keep us busy for that long. The real AoC addicts will understand what I'm saying: there is so much to see and to do besides the Sieges and the endgame raiding. Personally I want to look around a lot, test the combat system, explore the available cities, do some drunken brawling, get to meet other people and so on. The only thing I hope for is that the minimum level isn't too fricking high for riding a mount since most of us have pre-ordered and received a free mount. It would be a slap in the face if you had to look at your mount for 40+ levels and couldn't use it! Why the hell did they give one for free then? It's like buying a Porsche but not being able to ride in it for a month
The problem i see with not implementing end game pvp and such for a month or 2 is you ll get those hardcore people that play 15 hours a day ignoring the lore and power leveling to the top in no time. I know some will say it can t be done i played beta etc, but it always does. Those people will get to end game super fast and then hit the boards saying this game has no end game etc. They ll hit the game hard and it will cause some people on the fence not to pick it up. Of course this all depends on if said implementations aren t in. If so it will hurt the game no matter what. Most people aren t that way but some are and theres others that are followers and will go on every word some others say. That said i think if it isn t in at release and takes some time it will hurt it and should get a delay till they are in. I myself take forever in any game i ve played to get to end game, i take my time always have always will In any event Avery i ll take a buddy key if you got any left when you read this
The only thing I hope for is that the minimum level isn't too fricking high for riding a mount since most of us have pre-ordered and received a free mount. It would be a slap in the face if you had to look at your mount for 40+ levels and couldn't use it! Why the hell did they give one for free then? It's like buying a Porsche but not being able to ride in it for a month
Yeah that mount you get with your pre-order can only be used in the Borderland skirmishes, so ur looking at like lvl 70+ prolly lvl 80 before u can use it!
Only horses are available to ride in the world until then!
Kemih ~ 13 Red Mage | Currently playing FFXI & LOTRO, awaiting Warhammer Online & Aion...
Comments
Yeah maybe we agree. But i do think funcom is after a piece of the wow pie. Why else design a game that is so strikingly similar? And I also belive the devs have stated that they are not trying to bring new people into mmo's but instead taking some of the existing ones, ie wow's.
Wow works and Funcom knows that. I belive Funcom is trying to make the transition as smooth as possible for a wow player into AoC. It basically has the same rules. The combat system is basically the same. Talents/feats. No death penalty. Same dungeons, same type of gear, same classes.
The playerbuilt cities and fight for world keeps is unique to AoC though. That and the collision detection.
I hope AoC is good. But when they copy (harsh yeah I know but that my impression) the most succesful mmo out there they better be friggin splendid at release or AoC will go down the Vanguard way... or if they are not unique at release they will go down the Lotro way (ie not as bad).
And the unique part is the player cities and siege pvp imo.
Eventhough, I'd like to see a perfect launch with all the bells and whistles, which I never have and don't expect. I think another delay, of that length(June), would hurt their first quarter profit. It would still pick up through the mid-2nd quarter, from a later launch, but at a slower pace than it could've otherwise, by sticking to May.
So, I still think we get the game on the 20th, with any missing content that is currently planned, out by June-July.
EDIT-- Never, has Funcom stated that AoC was a WoW killer. Why presume this, when the sys. requirements and the M-rating would automaticaly preclude it? At best, it would be the tip of the spear in a serious decline in WoW and, again, if you claim that any MMO title was released perfectly, then you just weren't there.
Don't forget that even CB testers don't see the newest of the new content, as it's refered to as 'in development', but it's tested by the dev's and most of the original, handpicked, Alpha team.
Even after a launch the once beta servers, that are now test servers, only see stuff that has been already worked on for months.
So really, who else but Funcom knows the real state of the game as of today?
* Life is not black or white, it's shades of grey. But, at it's best/worst, it hints at 32bit color. -Me (a.k.a. RuthlessTimes)
* I do not need to know how to make a better game than you. I just need to know how to cancel my subscription. -Antarious(a slight misquote but the sentiment remains)
To MoLoK_ :
The MMO gender at this point in time comes with a big entrance barrier in terms of investment and quality necessary to be marginally successful as far as a AAA goes. So, not many people in the business are willing to experiment and will rather use (or re-use if you like) old ideas that worked in the past. The best you and I can expect is an evolution of the currently available mechanics, with better graphics in a different setting.
That been said and having some experience behind me, there are some fundamental differences between AoC and WoW. I'm not trying to claim that AoC is full of innovations, but it's a mistake to claim that they copied WoW in any form. Other games, yes. WoW, no. Perhaps some of the features that WoW copied from others can be seen in AoC, but that's about it.
Combat system is nothing alike. Combat in WoW is divided between white damage (auto attack) and yellow damage (specials). There is no white damage in AoC. Unless you press some key, nothing happens. The difference this little detail makes just broadens the way the difference in which the two games play, combat wise. There is collision detection. There is active blocking. You can't pass through somebody to avoid a spell cast. Everyone can stealth around. The differences really are more than the similarities.
Talent/feats. Lets start by saying that you could say that feats are the equivalent of WoW's talents. However, you also have skills and skill points. I would agree that they could add more skills (for those on the know), but the current ones do add an extra flavour to the talent trees. Back to the feats. Feats do not dictate how a character will play. For real this time. It doesn't matter which tree I select for healing, they both are viable. One is pro-active, the other is reactive. The output is the same. Then you have a feat tree that is shared among all archetypes. And you can get enough feat points to go down all the way in two feat trees.
About death penalty we know little at this point. Right now it's a stackable attributes debuff, that can be negated by going back to the point of death and reclaim your tombstone. The severity is light at the moment but nothing suggests that that won't change in retail or between different servers. You must also realise that the higher up you go in the levels, the more hostile territories become, so reclaiming a tombstone does become a real pain at some point.
Same dungeons ... well, I won't comment on that. It's too generic and suggests that all games that have dungeons copied WoW. Which is ridiculous.
Gear so far play little role both in PvP and PvE. The situation might change with crafted and raid gear available but going from 5% influence to 10% is not the same as 50% influence they have in WoW. Not by a long shot. So far the game does not seem to be gear oriented at all.
Same classes ... again proves little knowledge of AoC. WoW is all about the holy trinity. Tank, healer, dps. The only problem in AoC's case is that all classes are hybrids. All classes can do at least two things with a few covering all angles (arguably with limitations). Bottom line, AoC does put a twist in that mechanic as well. Whether people will like it or not remains to be seen.
Bottom line, in my opinion, this this the game that tries the least to imitate WoW. WoW is all about the common denominator. If they wanted to copy WoW as you claim, they would have dropped both the M rating and the system specs on the spot. Among other, more glaring things.
If all MMO's were delayed until they were ready to launch.. we wouldn't have had any MMO's to play yet....
ROFL
<--- Look at the list of games and check their forums. You wont find any forum without a WOW comparison. Well, except D&L maybe
The game should not be released with ugly female avatars. Even if they are topless. I suppose we could put helmets over there heads...the equivalent of a brown paper bag.
Wow... you really think it doesnt matter if Siege PvP is in at release? This is one of the MAJOR features Funcom is pushing the game with.
And your statement that you dont care about "what the hardcore will do, they don't fund the servers." is contradicted by "PvP ruleset is there, it's called FFA. Some people need to adjust to it, that's all." where you say casuals have to adjust to hardcore players...
Amazing how fanboys get blind... just amazing...
I am following this game more then two years, but I agree wity you. Whay? Battle sieges are part of this game and it's natural to be in at release time. For me, sieges are most inportant part of game and I want to know, what i am buying.Sieges will make AoC grate or fail.
I really hope for at least 100 vs 100 at the same time.
I have no idea why people think that Sieges won't be in for release.. Its been publically said they are in the Beta a few times now. They were first shown publically some 8 months ago, and since then internally tested, they even let the public play a version at a Paris show like last september, albeit an internal version, nevertheless the cynical mindset of some is hilarious. Whats even far more funny is the fact that some of you are taking other peoples word as Gospel truth. You don't even know these people, wouldn't it be best to wait and see for yourselves? especially as you can do this for free!
Avery, why do you keep saying you can do this for free? I don't recall any game that has had an unlimited beta. Matter of fact, most of the AAA games that I can remember that had open beta did it via Fileplanet and such with limited keys that were gone within minutes. Please explain how and when people will be able to do this for free.
Thanks.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Avery, why do you keep saying you can do this for free? I don't recall any game that has had an unlimited beta. Matter of fact, most of the AAA games that I can remember that had open beta did it via Fileplanet and such with limited keys that were gone within minutes. Please explain how and when people will be able to do this for free.
Thanks.
I took what he said as you can wait and see what happens for free.
Good point. Avery just knows a lot about AoC and Funcom. I just want to make sure I didn't miss a press release or something.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Avery, why do you keep saying you can do this for free? I don't recall any game that has had an unlimited beta. Matter of fact, most of the AAA games that I can remember that had open beta did it via Fileplanet and such with limited keys that were gone within minutes. Please explain how and when people will be able to do this for free.
Thanks.
Well lets just say there will ample opportunity to try the game for free - for a limited time. If your resourcefull enough people can get their hands on a buddy key for example. There most likely will be a trial at some point too. I downloaded and tried beta for lotro free, whose to say conan wont be the same? In fact I've tried many games for free at somepoint via trials or whatnot. Its not about unlimited beta its about seeing if the game should be delayed from your impressions from it. There will be thousands of buddy keys going out there infact about 350k worldwide assuming if I remember 5 per CE edition and 70k editions made. Im also sure that this site and many others will have competitions too. Mmo's are socialable most people have friends in the genre in other games who will try AoC one way or another.
lets see what happens in 32 days time
EDIT: kinda just made the point both ways sorry didnt explain properly
Bah, I'm hoping I have a buddy key coming in from you.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
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Maybe a nice IGN beta May 1st
Game goes gold April 8th
Will have to wait and see for the IGN details though.
There is a chance there might be something in this coming Fridays Clan of Conan newsletter, but prob End of April's.
I will be giving a buddy key to Shannia and Lobo and Metaldragon so far lol
I think you misunderstood me a little. What I mean is that the vast majority of future AoC- subscribers will have played WoW. Funcom knows this and have made AoC with that in mind. And I do belive that the holy trinity will come in play in AoC just like in WoW during the endgame. Low and midlevel wow does not require that the tank and healer are specialized. From Heroics onward they do however. Endgame dungeons and raids in AoC will of course be min maxed when it comes to feats and classes (we need CC, we need AoE, we need a REAL tank! etc).
And I highly doubt that gear in conan is just 5-10%... that cannot be true. I know gear is suppossed to have less impact on your char in AoC compared to WoW and im sure it will be, but that does not mean that the goal "to get gear" is any different.
I am talking about endgame, where all AoC players will be after whatever days /played. Thats where the balancing matters. Thats where the holy trinity comes to play. Thats when gear is the only way to improve your character. Do you want to craft? Then be prepared to take up raiding. Do you want PvP gear? Then do PvP. Do you want the best PvE gear? Then get ready to raid long nights together with 23 other people.
You're over simplifying things but I'll go along and say that a lot of people that will move to AoC will have some first hand experience with WoW, myself included among them. What drew me to this game however was not the WoW background, but the Lineage 2 background and to a lesser extend the UO background.
Regarding the holy trinity, I tried to explain how things are different (or seem different at this point). There is no dispute about the stupidity of the human nature, that tries to pigeon hole everything into specific categories and doesn't allow for some diversity. Even with this hybrid system, I'm pretty sure that eventually some know-it-all "experts" will emerge to educate the masses on how their classes should be played. I'm also sure that they'll have a much tougher job to do so than with WoW.
All soldier archetypes can tank as effectively. Guardian is the closest designed to what people are already familiar with, but even he can tank with the polearm (dual hand) or the one hand/ shield combo. They designed the game specifically so you see no difference in the end result.
Healers heal via HoTs most of the time. They have some extra tricks but that's the standard healing output for most fights. That means one thing, they can pro-actively heal (matter of choice really) and go along doing other things in the mid time. Some will melee, some will cast offensively, some will use their crowd control abilities. Watching bars is not the main focus, watching relative position between the people in the group and the mobs is. Reacting to combat situation is as well. I've done the "watch the health bar " game in WoW, I got tired of it.
I do expect some complains from people that are used in a certain way of playing and are now presented with an alternative. In WoW you have the "oh shit" heal to save the day. In this game you won't. You will need to navigate your own team members due to the collision detection to get to your target. You will need to play differently and this will bring complains. But there are already so many games that play similarly right now and you have this one that plays slightly different.
Why it is so hard to swallow that a game can revolve to something else than gear dependence? Gear ruined WoW. Each expansion and all gear are obsolete, all the time to reach the goal you mentioned go down the drain. So WoW flushes down the toilet gear with each expansion, that's how much importance they feel should have. Why not make a game that the impact is not that hard, so you won't need to dump them every X amount of time to maintain a meaningful gameplay?
Forgetting about the insane grinding in Lineage 2, what made the game fun was not the gear. It was the guild politics and the guild pride of owning a castle and maintaining it as much as possible, especially when the server is against you. The fight, the struggle, the pride is all that matters, it'll be all that you'll remember. Going back in the Wow days, I fondly remember all the first server kills, all the effort and frustration. Not the gear, gear are tools, good tools help but they are not the thing that ultimately matters.
Just one last note. All MMOs evolve. WoW in particular, since you mentioned it changed main goal 4-5 times in it's current lifespan. Things might change as well after launch, depending on what the player base will want and how well the developers will be able to react to it. But for now, what I said holds true. They would be utter stupid to try and make a clone. People would not leave their established guilds and friends to run off to the same thing. That's why both AoC and WAR are presented as something different to WoW. They saw the clones having a bad reception and they know they can't hope to gain a steady base by just rehashing the same old ideas. Whether they will succeed, we'll know for sure after launch.
From a few sources in beta I heard the game has shit loads of bugs and what not, and is definately not ready for 5/20 release.
They should wait a bit if they want the game to be successful.
Just a side thought though, how many of you think Age of Conan MIGHT get banned because of its contents? Honestly, i'll laugh in funcoms face when I see that.
Age of Conan? The game? Banned from where? These forums?
If you're talking about the ratings, they already have the M+ rating for both US and EU with the content currently in game.
Does the game need another delay? Well, both yes and no.
IMO it needs about another year. In this year, they got time to get back in the features that were so loudly announced and dropped or watered down later on.
But since the devs stated a couple of times that certain things (some of them considered as being game breaking by players) won't change or get changed back, they may as well release the game as it is now and end the endless hyped joke of their so called "next gen" title.
IMO they should release the game on May 20th and just listen to the feedback from players. Based on that they should patch every other week.
As far as the big things like Sieges are concerned: I won't mind if it takes them a month or two to implement it through a patch. I'm sure there is enough content in the game to keep us busy for that long. The real AoC addicts will understand what I'm saying: there is so much to see and to do besides the Sieges and the endgame raiding. Personally I want to look around a lot, test the combat system, explore the available cities, do some drunken brawling, get to meet other people and so on.
The only thing I hope for is that the minimum level isn't too fricking high for riding a mount since most of us have pre-ordered and received a free mount. It would be a slap in the face if you had to look at your mount for 40+ levels and couldn't use it! Why the hell did they give one for free then? It's like buying a Porsche but not being able to ride in it for a month
Yeah, not much next gen in AoC, I agree.
The problem i see with not implementing end game pvp and such for a month or 2 is you ll get those hardcore people that play 15 hours a day ignoring the lore and power leveling to the top in no time. I know some will say it can t be done i played beta etc, but it always does. Those people will get to end game super fast and then hit the boards saying this game has no end game etc. They ll hit the game hard and it will cause some people on the fence not to pick it up. Of course this all depends on if said implementations aren t in. If so it will hurt the game no matter what. Most people aren t that way but some are and theres others that are followers and will go on every word some others say. That said i think if it isn t in at release and takes some time it will hurt it and should get a delay till they are in. I myself take forever in any game i ve played to get to end game, i take my time always have always will
Only horses are available to ride in the world until then!
Kemih ~ 13 Red Mage | Currently playing FFXI & LOTRO, awaiting Warhammer Online & Aion...