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Devs: We Need a Bona-Fide Crafting Friendly MMO
Kevyne-Shandris
Member UncommonPosts: 2,077
Let's face it crafters want to skill up on skills that are their profession. The problem with MMOs is when crafters want to craft, if they want to concentrate on their skills, they have to gather raw materials; or w-a-i-t forever for it to go on sale by some fighter who usually sells to their own guild first.
Guess where the raw materials are located?
Guess what skills are gimped with crafters (especially when there's limited skills forcing hard choices)?
Guess what happens if they open the combat skills?
Why can't crafters get the PvE materials they need? It's not like fighters want to go hunting for hides all day anyway.
Devs, when you put the goods in PvP zones, and your main is a crafter, there's no way will they normally go retrieve it. And if the items are only valuable for crafting itself, fighters aren't inclined to hunt them down for you. It creates a vacuum, because crafters can't stock up on crafted items, when they're gimped and the fighters are more interested in getting their ready made epics.
We need a bona-fide crafting friendly MMO!
Comments
You pretty much want pre-NGE SWG like the rest of us.
'til then, maybe you should try PoTBS. The combat is horrendous but the economic side of it is quite in-depth. Or try Vanguard, that seems to have heavy crafting.
Of all the aspects of a MMOROPG, I find crafting the hardest to mail down. Many games dont have it at all. others have it, but its barely developed.
IN what Ive been able to research, I found that good crafting exsists on
SWG, Vanguard, Second Life, A Tale in the Desertt, EvE and to a lesser extent Conquere Online
However, I doubt any fall into what your looking for. Except perhaps Second Life..which is all crafting if you think about it.
Hope this helps
Torrential
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
Hi,
I got the answer for you and it's pretty simple Runescape is what it's been called my friend! Many people don't see it because they think the game sucks due the bad graphics and the point & click gameplay but they have got a great crafting system. And I know the age of the average player is probably around 10 years but if you look you will find an adult clan pretty soon. And when you become member all those stupid 8 years old saying they want to show you some armour are gone !
GreetzZz
for just crafting Id recommend Horizons, thats about all it has left but it does it pretty well.
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I havent been to Horizen home page in ages but it was one of the greatest crafting systems known. Plus it has dragons...
WurmOnline, over half the community doesn't train combat or rarely trains it. This even holds true on the wild server which has an RvR type system.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Sorry to say, but as a fellow crafter I don't share your view; maybe we have been playing very different games. I consider networking to be very important for said ingame profession; can't get hold of something in particular ... everyone has their price, or take a risk yourself. Placing highly sought materials in a very dangerous PvE zone or a PvP zone makes sense to me; it makes it worth all the hassle retrieving them and your items more wanted. Placing crafting in a game system with itemdrop loot, that's still silly to me; that's what creates your vacuum, not interdependancy.
Or maybe "A tale in the desert" with demons and steampunk?
I have to agree, PRE CU SWG had the most indepth crafting system that actually rewarded players that worked for it. I hope one day we will see another system like that.
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Yeah I loved being a weaponsmith. And the gathering and raw material system they had was just SICK man! I think it's the only game where the raw materials are never in the same place twice, oh and the different quality levels of the same base raw material was awesome.
Vanguard crafting is all about grinding craft xp, which is boring as hell.
Eve I wouldn't really consider crafting. You don't actually do anything in that game besides stick minerals in a factory and tell it to pop out x amount of product. Gathering in that game is boring as hell as well.
But back on topic, I have to agree somewhat with the OP on this one. While I agree most of the common raw materials should be gatherable by a common man (i.e. no combat skills) the rare stuff probably should come from a combat area.
nethervoid - Est. '97
[UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|AQW|DN|SWTOR|Dofus|SotA|BDO|AO|NW|LA] - Currently Playing EQ1
20k+ subs YouTube Gaming channel
1st off, I come in peace to this thread. (disclaimer1)
With all due respect... (disclaimer2)
I have played a lot of MMORPG's. Who hasn't, right? I've just never been able to get into the crafting side of the game. I've always been someone who liked to pve, pvp, RAID, explore, and farm instances/mobs.
I completely understand that it's all about a matter of preference and all of that... but doesn't 'crafting' feel like a job?
I played preCU and preNGE SWG. I saw the elaborate 'shopping malls' that some players/vendors had. It really was incredible. I respected them for their efforts, honestly. But it also seemed like it must've been a job for them.
Most vendors I knew had multiple accounts, too. Of course, back then SWG only gave you one character per account/per server (unless you were Jedi). I know you could spec with multi-prof's, but really... to cover the bases you would need 3-4 toons.
It wasn't that crafting in the game was 'complex', it was just that it seemed like such a 'task'.
Side note: It really p*ssed me off that I needed to 'craft' my light-sabers from raw materials, too. I would've rather simply looted the components off of mobs and assembled them.
...
Flash forward to my WoW experience. I did end up 'grinding' to lvl 375 in 4 different professions there. Nobody really forced 'crafting' (if you can call it that in WoW) on me, but it seemed like the way to go in the game. In WoW, the only challenge in crafting was the constant struggle with having enough storage to keep my materials (without using a 'bank toon' and logging on/off to send/receive materials).
...
What is the draw to crafting?
I have heard of people leaving games due to a 'poor crafting system'. I guess I just don't get it. Maybe I'm not intended to. As I said, I get the 'to each his/her own' rule. In my years of playing MMO's, perhaps I'm missing something though. So, if someone could enlighten me... please, do.
I hate crafting. In every MMORPG I have played, I just...didint do crafting. till WoW. I did it simply cause I hit max level and nothing else to do, needless to say, I HATED IT. But then I tried EQ2.
I have played so many MMO's and EQ2 crafting captivated me enough to actually want to do it. and do it I did and enjoyed! it was so interactive and DIFFERENT!
I've never been a big crafter, but I'd agree, in a way. We need MMO's that have better crafting systems and better player driven economies. Make it so that player crafted equipment is the best equipment. So, combat heavy characters will have to buy from actual crafters, but crafters will also have to buy their materials from the gatherers. You set up a while system of interdependance where there are many roles for all of the different play styles.
I don't play as a crafter in any game, but I tend to agree (crafting friendly MMO)
This is due to my experience with SWG Pre-CU. The inter-dependency between different professions and classes were set up so well that it creates an environment to encourage talk to others and make friends. I am a combat player, and I should never know how to do everything on my own. And with others playing crafter, I can either sell what I gathered with the weak gathering skills I have, or be a person to help them getting their resources.
So I do not agree with the red part. Gathering resource is another type of game, and with everything there are risks and rewards. You pick crafting and your risks is when comes to gathering resources, you will die easier than a combat character. Your reward is that you can collect better and more (quality and quantity) of resources. So by using risks and rewards you create inter-dependency, not independence of profession.
BlackWatch, you stated that crafting feels like a job, but it really depends on how you view it. It is a type of game-play - resource-managing game. It was there because not everyone wants to kill random mobs, it isn't fun for them. It may be fun for you, but not them. Most MMO out there with heavy focus on combat and gear-collecting can also be listed as a "job". like I said, it's the way you view it. You don't like it you will view it as a job. I like combat, but I dislike raid and farming for items. So I would say raid sounds like a job, so is farming for items. I've heard in order to progress in raid, you need 3+ hrs per night... that sounds like a job for me. It may be good entertainment for you, but not me.
EDIT: one more thing BlackWatch,do you personally like to gathering resources? making items? Or if there is a choice you would let "professionals" to do that and you can be more focus on what you like better - combat? If you can answer this question, you should have at least some idea in how crafting profession, resource-gathering profession, and combat professions should relate to each others.
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
Crafting only feels like a job if you don't enjoy it; that's what made SWG such a great game; it catered to both tastes by providing the ability to be 100% focused on your preferred aspect.
If you didn't like to craft, you could just enjoy the combat and use your creds to buy crafted gear from the PC tradesman.
Likewise, if you didn't like to fight (not everyone does) you could pretty much ignore the combat system, grather resources and craft stuff to sell to the PC fighters.
The majority of modern MMO's like WoW and LotRO have tried to combine the two by just letting everyone be both an uber-combat and an uber-crafter character, and that's where the model ultimately fails because, where's the demand for a dedicated crafter?
I know in the real world the best stuff isn't always in the best spots (energy, gems, presious metals), so end users (jewelry makers, refiners, etc) have to pay a premium for the raw material. This is mirrored in mmo's to a degree. I remember making a killing with my ranger havesting stuff for crafters back in the day in SWG. This can be crossed over to many other games. If you pay a premium, someone with do the dirty work for you.
Maxx028
Thanks for the responses.
I wasn't trying to take the thread off course. thx again.
There are 2 reasons I loved crafting, originally in swg, all the items were player made and it was a constant struggle to put top notch products on the market (I had people complain to me, my production model fwg5's where better then their best krayt models), Crafting is normally where the money is in game. SWP was considered one of the top guilds on our server, yes we had good pvpers, but even more important we were able to outspend the Rebels. If the Rebels dropped a base, we blew it and placed 3 in it's place.
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An MMO that's designed just around crafting would not be very compelling. MMO's that have crafting in their games requires the players to gather, harvest or acquire drops establishes the basics of a risk reward system.
If all your character does is frolic in zones gathering material or you're shopping around for items to craft with, you're going to have a very one dimensional game.
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Some of you guys doesn't seem to understand why people like me and many others enjoy crafting so much.
It is linear and "two dimensional" for one reason.
There is no mmo at the moment out that gives the most of us satisfaction.
Here's my view of how a good crafting system should be.
I want to build a bench. I go out in the woods and cut down a tree to gather enough wood. I head to the ores to mine some iron ore needed for the nails. I melt the iron to nails to use them for the bench.
I start crafting the different pieces for them. Ofc i can add shades and color. which i need to gather aswell.
After all items are done. It's assembly time.
Done! You have a nice bench that can be used for various things.
To sum it all. You've mad a bench. Nothing special to some.. but for me it's accomplishment and i'd be very satisfied with thtat bench because IVE made it.
I want a dev team that understands that some like me wants a very open and realistic crafting system. Where you can actually cut down tree's and mine ore from mountains.
Crafting is fun when it's realistic.
then again, it's just my point of view and my two cents.
The speed of the mole and the power of steel is my weapon
Seriously, I played WurmOnline for a week and don't think I entered combat once. But any game where you can actually alter the environment gets a big
from me.
Another good one to try is Roma Victor. It's got a great, robust crafting system, even allowing "architecture" and land ownership
Too bad it doesn't have a trial so i could try the game. I don't feel like paying for a game that has a potential crafting system i could like >_>
The speed of the mole and the power of steel is my weapon
Bakoryo, you have precisely described Wurm Online.
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In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on August 13, 2008.
Mabonogi has some great crafting. It even works well with its economy. NPC items are super expensive, so buying crafted items is great. Also crafted items are the best base equipment in the game.
There are many aspects for meaningful crafting.
Crafting can be multifacet, meaning not just collect the stuffs and zap, its done. Crafting may involves quality (% success), may require interaction (like the minigames of EQ2) or it may involve trade off and plans, whereby there are choices on what end products to make, like the kind of buffs or combos (DAoC).
Crafting is definitely more rewarding if the end product matters. Unfortunately, when game gets aged, highlevel loot becomes easily available, that means low to medium level crafted output are totally useless. Grinding through the low level crafting becomes more of a chore. During the first weeks of a game, crafters find themselves the darling of everybody. I remember spending weeks making bags for everyone during the open beta days. I have no time to play anything, people line up offering me mats just for the bags.
Crafting is even more rewarding if the producing process merges with daily gameplay. From mat collection, to mat trading, to product design, to product production (automation, say), to product advertising and dissemination, each and every stage can merge with normal PVE/PVP gameplay. Which game has it fully integrated? Say to say SWG before NGE. In those days, you do not craft, you live in the game.