By far Shaiya is the best MMORPG I have played since WOW. The graphics are absolutely beautiful. Top notch support. Contests, PvP, item customization, I'm not going to stop playing it that's for sure.
You know, if one of these devs actually decided to put some effort into making a pay to play worthy game then they'd be a dominator. Free + item shop + actual content would mean some good money and a big subscriber base on their end. They seem content on constantly rolling out a new shallow Lineage 2 clone to replace the old though. A generic grindfest might be fine for Asians but I think Westerners expect some variety and uniqueness which these games sorely lack.
Is it any different than the other f2p Korean MMo clones like Rapplez or Last Chaos? Or more of the same crap but different skins?
Yes, it's much better than those games.
Shaiya looks and feels like Lineage 2, but with less grind, more quests, a better skill system and better pvp. The game art was done by the same designer who did Lineage 2 and Aion (kjun.org). Open beta started Dec 18, so the game is of course still not as complete as L2 and the game world is still smaller than L2, but its growing (Episode 3 comes this month (adds crafting, maps, etc...), Korea is already on episode 4).
Real quests or 'Go kill 15 rats' followed by "Go collect 15 rat tails"? Most of the F2P games fresh on my memory have quests but it's just quests to hold your hand with grinding and that's a deep as it ever gets.
Do they have the same equip as other f2p games? lvl 10 get Axe, lvl 30 get Large Axe, lvl 60 get Great Axe...etc etc etc with nothing in between, where everyone is equiped with the same exact weapon minus the inevitable stones or whatever to enchant it?
Drops- Same as most with 99% coins or completely common items or do you actually have a chance to get rare equipment from normal mobs or bosses that drop something exceptional most of the time?
Customization- The usual choice of a few faces/color and hair styles/color and that's it?
PvP- Get penalized for killing too much?
Skill system- Is it a system that allows you to have to actually make a choice to train something up and not being able to train up other skills as a result? Like how a proper skill tree should work where you have limited points to spend and not enough train everything?
Real quests or 'Go kill 15 rats' followed by "Go collect 15 rat tails"? Most of the F2P games fresh on my memory have quests but it's just quests to hold your hand with grinding and that's a deep as it ever gets.
Yes it's the same quest style as 99% of the other mmorpgs. On a positive note, the quests texts are nicely written. Another good point is that the combat system is very weel done. The skill system is very good and the combat animations and dynamics are awesome; due to this combat is fun (as opposed to so many other games like Vanguard, lotro etc... that have poor combat ) I don't feel a grind in this game.
But if this bothers you I think you are playing the wrong type of games. There is not 1 mmorps that is not a grind. Be it grinding quests or grinding mobs it's the same. It you don't like it, I think you can forget the genre all together.
Well, there is actually 1 game I can recommend to you :DDO (dungeons and dragons online). This is a heavily story centered game, where each dungeon is hand manufactured. But due to this it is of course 99% instanced, so forget the open world.
Originally posted by sumuji
Do they have the same equip as other f2p games?
yes
If you don't like it I recommend Everquest 2, or wait till Aion (Saiya is a nice game to play until Aion comes out).
Originally posted by sumuji
Drops- Same as most with 99% coins or completely common items or do you actually have a chance to get rare equipment from normal mobs or bosses that drop something exceptional most of the time?
Yes, coin and common items. And also there is a "small" chance you can drop rare items. There are also many bosses (many solo and many party bosses) that drop special items
Originally posted by sumuji
Customization- The usual choice of a few faces/color and hair styles/color and that's it?
Yes
Originally posted by sumuji
PvP- Get penalized for killing too much?
You don't need this with this pvp system.
There are 2 sides on the server (light and fury), you have to chose which side you join and you can't change afterwards. Currently each side has about 3 pve maps (episode 3 will bring more maps this month) and there are about 3 pvp maps.
In the pve maps there is no open pvp, and you won't see the adversary there (this makes all the pve fans happy). In the pve maps you can however duel (solo or guild).
The 3 pvp maps are accessible depending of your level (1 map is lvl 1-15, 1 is 20-30 and 1 is 1-60). There you fight the other side of the server, and you are encouraged to kill as much as you can. The side winning in pvp gets a goddess blessing (stat boost) for every one on the same side on the whole server). In the pvp maps there are also quests and dungeons. You can also drop crystals to improve weapons there.
Originally posted by sumuji
Skill system- Is it a system that allows you to have to actually make a choice to train something up and not being able to train up other skills as a result? Like how a proper skill tree should work where you have limited points to spend and not enough train everything?
Yes. Also character builds are different depending on the skills and the stats you choose (i.ex for the fighters a str (+damage) build will be different from a dex (+ evasion and hit) or a luc (+critical) build).
Also combat is not just press button 1+2 like many other games (i.ex lineage 2 and others). You have skill chains, and you will have to use the right skill chain depending on the type of adversary you fight. And pvp is very strategy centered, if you just go in there straight away without thinking you die. It's a lot of fun to plan some advanced strategies together with several other parties and then go out and take the enemy down
Sounds like one of their other clones Last Chaos allbeit with better PvP and a type of overbreeding which is present in other Asian grinders that allows minimal character progression but more points to spend on skills. Not any fresh ideas here, just different ways of implimenting them in each game although perma death for hardcore mode or whatever sounds new at least to me.
Sorry, I'll think I'll pass because it just sounds like another one fresh off the assembly line. These games are just way too shallow for me to get hooked on. Maybe some day they'll make one that's p2p quality instead of the sterotypical Asian grinder with lots of shortcomings and it will be something i can stomach for a significant amount of time.
You seem to be having fun though and that's all that's important.
I agree with sumuji it is mostly like any other ftp game out there atm but with a better pvp system and possibly skills ystem that is a little touched up I played this and its really not to appealing. You do level faster then most other games but seriously this game is all grind. Once you get to lvl 50 you go to hard mode so you can lvl with more stats points but less xp which means more grind. after that you get to w.e level to do the hardest mode so your character is ultimate with a shit load of stats points but again less xp from hard mode which makes it even more grind. Of course you always have the options to choose the easiest play mode but whats the point if you do? If you do then your character will be weaker then all of the rest and you get #uck3d up in pvp.
but like he sumuji said as long as your having fun that is all that matters. this is just my opinion and all people who read this try the game and see if you like it for your self dont take my word on it I hate a lot of games and may dis them all a bit =]
These games are just way too shallow for me to get hooked on. Maybe some day they'll make one that's p2p quality instead of the sterotypical Asian grinder with lots of shortcomings and it will be something i can stomach for a significant amount of time.
I would be interested to know what mmorpgs you like and play. Because I have purchased and subscribed to more than half a dosen p2p mmos, played all of the "better" f2p mmos, and tried many other p2p and f2p.
I have found so many of the p2p mmos boring. To me it all comes down to 1 thing: gameplay. And what is gameplay in an mmorpg ? Its combat + character progression + weapon progression + armor progression + community interaction/fun (-> also add +pvp + territoy/castle ownership) . That's the meat of the stuff. These things must be fun. Everything else is added fluff and polish (which is off course good and improves a gaming experience, but it's secondary to the central part of the game).
So many p2p games concentrate on the fluff, and give only little attention to the most important part of the game.
Want an example to put a picture on what I try to say ? Take Lotro : awesome polish, but the most important feature that is central to the game (as said above) sucks. So the game seems to have everything.... but its boring to play.
Now, take lotro again and do this:
1. improve combat animations and feeling (something like DDO, yes DDO is also a turbine game, but if you play a fighter combat is great with an awesome feeling of hitting your target. Why did they mess it up in lotro ). Makes the grinding fun.
2. improve armor and weapon graphics to make them something you are really looking forward to spend time grinding and leveling for.
3. remove the soul less monster play and give the world 2 sides like Shaiya. So players can play as trolls, etc... and then you have some awesome battle fields in pvp. Don't forget castle sieges and guild castle/fortress ownership (yes this is in the lotro lore, remember the books and the movies ?) . This would give a completely different dimension to character progression and guilds. Of course npc fighters would autospawn to push the enemy back if it is too strong, so that it can't completely invade the opposite server side to keep in line with the lotro lore.
Now this would be a hellovagame. Why did turbine miss this ?
So... well, I'm now playing shaiya. Of course is doesn't have everything but at least, compared to many other games, the meat (gameplay) is there. And this, for free. I hope it will keep my interest untill Aion comes out (and maybe I'll try AoC).
I like how you just copy and post things you've already said. There can't be ANY world pvp in lotro so get off it lol. They have already stated when people were crying about no world pvp they have to stay true to the lore and that the evil side already has a fate layed out for them....they don't win lol. Yes they could have made world pvp with a monster side but what would they raid against or quest for? They meet their doom no matter what so gl with that idea lol. If you're talking about the things they did right that's great but don't keep saying you wish they should have made a monster side when you're not thinking it over. I'm not trying to bash you in the ground just makes no sense to keep posting on how lotro should have done something that wouldn't make any sense at all if you stopped and thought about it.
There can't be ANY world pvp in lotro so get off it lol. They have already stated when people were crying about no world pvp they have to stay true to the lore and that the evil side already has a fate layed out for them....they don't win lol. Yes they could have made world pvp with a monster side but what would they raid against or quest for?
Well, before posting you should first read the lotr books or watch the movies. Then you will realise that there are 2 sides (good and evil) and that there are castle sieges, etc...
And you don't need "world pvp". Shaiya has 2 pve sides (the opposite faction can't go there), and in the middle you have several pvp maps; there you can implement castel sieges with some castle/territory ownership and everything you want, as I said with autospawning npcs to push the enemy back if it gets too strong to keep in line with the lore.
But as you don't seem to read the lotr you also don't seem to read what I write.
Well, before posting you should first read the lotr books or watch the movies. Then you will realise that there are 2 sides (good and evil) and that there are castle sieges, etc...
I have read the books and watched the movies a million times, but since we are assuming now I guess we can assume you were one of those people that logged in played monster side for a few didn't like it and logged out. since you stated...
3. remove the soul less monster play and give the world 2 sides like Shaiya. So players can play as trolls, etc... and then you have some awesome battle fields in pvp. Don't forget castle sieges and guild castle/fortress ownership
Two worlds wouldn't work and they already have a battle field. Yes, you can siege castles and get ownership.
pvp isn't a main focus of this game and it sounds like they have everything you just stated nice try tho.
and it sounds like they have everything you just stated nice try tho.
Reading you it sound like you have never played a pvp game. Monster play is just what it is monster-play. In an mmo with pvp you need something to look forward to, you need to build your character. This gives you one more reason to go out there and grind. Give a try to shaiya, it will give you an idea of how it goes.
Shaiya doesn't have open world pvp. The way they implemented it it would be perfect for lotro, that's why I chose it as example.
Hey, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you here. I just expressed and shared my opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.
I posted that I had a lock with full season 3 gear (completed the set before I left) with a 1900s rating (without buying points) over 400 resilence and 1k spell damage. I said I love pvp and that's the main reason I played wow since launch. So don't tell me I've never pvped (yes I've pvped in more then just wow) when it's you that don't read posts. Like I said before lotro is a pve game first and they just made pvp to make some of the people that liked that happy.
I didn't platy LotR but it's one of the few p2p MMO's that I haven't played since like 1999.
These are a few things that bug the hell out of me about these games Asian f2p grinders that are typically not a problem in p2p games;
Customization- Need more than 4 choices for face,hair,eyes. I'm still trying to figure out how they can work so hard to make a beautiful game and then spend like 10 minutes programming customization features. It's pretty sad when you could strip off comeltely naked and people would still be absolutely sure what class you are.
Classes are typically race/gender locked. Umm, yeah.
Clones all over the place. This kinds bounces back to the problem with lack of customization but nothing shows the lack of variety and uniqueness when you're tripping over an exact clone of yourself every 5 meters. Which leads to my next point
Loot- Usually one set every 10/20 levels and that's it. No different colors or chances for a totally different set alltogether ...................b-o-r-i-n-g
Item shop or be a gimp. Kinda defeats the purpose of calling it a f2p game when you'd pretty much have to buy items to compete in PvP or to get the best progression in PvE. The irony is that these games probably make more per player than subscription games. Probably why you see a new Asian grinder popping up every 6 months or so. And they apparently don't take that money and invest it in quality.
Variety with mobs ,or in this case the lack thereof. Sorry but taking a mob and doubleing it's size does not really consituite creating a new mob. If you were to look at each truely original mob in the bestiary you'd see how uttelrly pathetic the lack of diversity is in these games.
1,000,000,000 player shops in the middle of town to lag you the hell out. Seriosuly, is it that much trouble to have some kind of auction house setup that's been standard in most quality games for the last 5 years or at least add a way to organize player shops? Most of these games don't ship with this feature but might add it later down the road when nobody cares or plays anymore.
Most of these are grind oriented at mid-higher levels at least, most of the time the whole game.
etc etc etc
Good for you if you love these games but for people that can actually afford $15/month it's hard to attempt playing free games. In most of this cases you get what you pay for. It seems Asians just need a weapon and a mob to smack but I think most Westerners except a little more, except kids without credit cards.
By far Shaiya is the best MMORPG I have played since WOW. The graphics are absolutely beautiful. Top notch support. Contests, PvP, item customization, I'm not going to stop playing it that's for sure.
Comments
Is it any different than the other f2p Korean MMo clones like Rapplez or Last Chaos? Or more of the same crap but different skins?
Pretty much like all the other F2P mmos, only this one has 'discovered' ASDW keys for moving about!! what a revelation!
/sigh
You know, if one of these devs actually decided to put some effort into making a pay to play worthy game then they'd be a dominator. Free + item shop + actual content would mean some good money and a big subscriber base on their end. They seem content on constantly rolling out a new shallow Lineage 2 clone to replace the old though. A generic grindfest might be fine for Asians but I think Westerners expect some variety and uniqueness which these games sorely lack.
Your post just shows you haven't really played this game. Shaiya is imho the best f2p together with perfect world.
@OP, I agree with you.
Yes, it's much better than those games.
Shaiya looks and feels like Lineage 2, but with less grind, more quests, a better skill system and better pvp. The game art was done by the same designer who did Lineage 2 and Aion (kjun.org). Open beta started Dec 18, so the game is of course still not as complete as L2 and the game world is still smaller than L2, but its growing (Episode 3 comes this month (adds crafting, maps, etc...), Korea is already on episode 4).
If you want some more detailed info check out my reply in this thread: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/1926273
Real quests or 'Go kill 15 rats' followed by "Go collect 15 rat tails"? Most of the F2P games fresh on my memory have quests but it's just quests to hold your hand with grinding and that's a deep as it ever gets.
Do they have the same equip as other f2p games? lvl 10 get Axe, lvl 30 get Large Axe, lvl 60 get Great Axe...etc etc etc with nothing in between, where everyone is equiped with the same exact weapon minus the inevitable stones or whatever to enchant it?
Drops- Same as most with 99% coins or completely common items or do you actually have a chance to get rare equipment from normal mobs or bosses that drop something exceptional most of the time?
Customization- The usual choice of a few faces/color and hair styles/color and that's it?
PvP- Get penalized for killing too much?
Skill system- Is it a system that allows you to have to actually make a choice to train something up and not being able to train up other skills as a result? Like how a proper skill tree should work where you have limited points to spend and not enough train everything?
Yes it's the same quest style as 99% of the other mmorpgs. On a positive note, the quests texts are nicely written. Another good point is that the combat system is very weel done. The skill system is very good and the combat animations and dynamics are awesome; due to this combat is fun (as opposed to so many other games like Vanguard, lotro etc... that have poor combat ) I don't feel a grind in this game.
But if this bothers you I think you are playing the wrong type of games. There is not 1 mmorps that is not a grind. Be it grinding quests or grinding mobs it's the same. It you don't like it, I think you can forget the genre all together.
Well, there is actually 1 game I can recommend to you :DDO (dungeons and dragons online). This is a heavily story centered game, where each dungeon is hand manufactured. But due to this it is of course 99% instanced, so forget the open world.
yes
If you don't like it I recommend Everquest 2, or wait till Aion (Saiya is a nice game to play until Aion comes out).
Yes, coin and common items. And also there is a "small" chance you can drop rare items. There are also many bosses (many solo and many party bosses) that drop special items
Yes
You don't need this with this pvp system.
There are 2 sides on the server (light and fury), you have to chose which side you join and you can't change afterwards. Currently each side has about 3 pve maps (episode 3 will bring more maps this month) and there are about 3 pvp maps.
In the pve maps there is no open pvp, and you won't see the adversary there (this makes all the pve fans happy). In the pve maps you can however duel (solo or guild).
The 3 pvp maps are accessible depending of your level (1 map is lvl 1-15, 1 is 20-30 and 1 is 1-60). There you fight the other side of the server, and you are encouraged to kill as much as you can. The side winning in pvp gets a goddess blessing (stat boost) for every one on the same side on the whole server). In the pvp maps there are also quests and dungeons. You can also drop crystals to improve weapons there.
Yes. Also character builds are different depending on the skills and the stats you choose (i.ex for the fighters a str (+damage) build will be different from a dex (+ evasion and hit) or a luc (+critical) build).
Also combat is not just press button 1+2 like many other games (i.ex lineage 2 and others). You have skill chains, and you will have to use the right skill chain depending on the type of adversary you fight. And pvp is very strategy centered, if you just go in there straight away without thinking you die. It's a lot of fun to plan some advanced strategies together with several other parties and then go out and take the enemy down
Sounds like one of their other clones Last Chaos allbeit with better PvP and a type of overbreeding which is present in other Asian grinders that allows minimal character progression but more points to spend on skills. Not any fresh ideas here, just different ways of implimenting them in each game although perma death for hardcore mode or whatever sounds new at least to me.
Sorry, I'll think I'll pass because it just sounds like another one fresh off the assembly line. These games are just way too shallow for me to get hooked on. Maybe some day they'll make one that's p2p quality instead of the sterotypical Asian grinder with lots of shortcomings and it will be something i can stomach for a significant amount of time.
You seem to be having fun though and that's all that's important.
I agree with sumuji it is mostly like any other ftp game out there atm but with a better pvp system and possibly skills ystem that is a little touched up I played this and its really not to appealing. You do level faster then most other games but seriously this game is all grind. Once you get to lvl 50 you go to hard mode so you can lvl with more stats points but less xp which means more grind. after that you get to w.e level to do the hardest mode so your character is ultimate with a shit load of stats points but again less xp from hard mode which makes it even more grind. Of course you always have the options to choose the easiest play mode but whats the point if you do? If you do then your character will be weaker then all of the rest and you get #uck3d up in pvp.
but like he sumuji said as long as your having fun that is all that matters. this is just my opinion and all people who read this try the game and see if you like it for your self dont take my word on it I hate a lot of games and may dis them all a bit =]
I would be interested to know what mmorpgs you like and play. Because I have purchased and subscribed to more than half a dosen p2p mmos, played all of the "better" f2p mmos, and tried many other p2p and f2p.
I have found so many of the p2p mmos boring. To me it all comes down to 1 thing: gameplay. And what is gameplay in an mmorpg ? Its combat + character progression + weapon progression + armor progression + community interaction/fun (-> also add +pvp + territoy/castle ownership) . That's the meat of the stuff. These things must be fun. Everything else is added fluff and polish (which is off course good and improves a gaming experience, but it's secondary to the central part of the game).
So many p2p games concentrate on the fluff, and give only little attention to the most important part of the game.
Want an example to put a picture on what I try to say ? Take Lotro : awesome polish, but the most important feature that is central to the game (as said above) sucks. So the game seems to have everything.... but its boring to play.
Now, take lotro again and do this:
1. improve combat animations and feeling (something like DDO, yes DDO is also a turbine game, but if you play a fighter combat is great with an awesome feeling of hitting your target. Why did they mess it up in lotro
). Makes the grinding fun.
2. improve armor and weapon graphics to make them something you are really looking forward to spend time grinding and leveling for.
3. remove the soul less monster play and give the world 2 sides like Shaiya. So players can play as trolls, etc... and then you have some awesome battle fields in pvp. Don't forget castle sieges and guild castle/fortress ownership (yes this is in the lotro lore, remember the books and the movies ?)
. This would give a completely different dimension to character progression and guilds. Of course npc fighters would autospawn to push the enemy back if it is too strong, so that it can't completely invade the opposite server side to keep in line with the lotro lore.
Now this would be a hellovagame. Why did turbine miss this ?
So... well, I'm now playing shaiya. Of course is doesn't have everything but at least, compared to many other games, the meat (gameplay) is there. And this, for free. I hope it will keep my interest untill Aion comes out (and maybe I'll try AoC).
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/173169/page/5
I like how you just copy and post things you've already said. There can't be ANY world pvp in lotro so get off it lol. They have already stated when people were crying about no world pvp they have to stay true to the lore and that the evil side already has a fate layed out for them....they don't win lol. Yes they could have made world pvp with a monster side but what would they raid against or quest for? They meet their doom no matter what so gl with that idea lol. If you're talking about the things they did right that's great but don't keep saying you wish they should have made a monster side when you're not thinking it over. I'm not trying to bash you in the ground just makes no sense to keep posting on how lotro should have done something that wouldn't make any sense at all if you stopped and thought about it.
Well, before posting you should first read the lotr books or watch the movies. Then you will realise that there are 2 sides (good and evil) and that there are castle sieges, etc...
And you don't need "world pvp". Shaiya has 2 pve sides (the opposite faction can't go there), and in the middle you have several pvp maps; there you can implement castel sieges with some castle/territory ownership and everything you want, as I said with autospawning npcs to push the enemy back if it gets too strong to keep in line with the lore.
But as you don't seem to read the lotr you also don't seem to read what I write.
Well, before posting you should first read the lotr books or watch the movies. Then you will realise that there are 2 sides (good and evil) and that there are castle sieges, etc...
I have read the books and watched the movies a million times, but since we are assuming now I guess we can assume you were one of those people that logged in played monster side for a few didn't like it and logged out. since you stated...
3. remove the soul less monster play and give the world 2 sides like Shaiya. So players can play as trolls, etc... and then you have some awesome battle fields in pvp. Don't forget castle sieges and guild castle/fortress ownership
Two worlds wouldn't work and they already have a battle field. Yes, you can siege castles and get ownership.
pvp isn't a main focus of this game and it sounds like they have everything you just stated nice try tho.
Reading you it sound like you have never played a pvp game. Monster play is just what it is monster-play. In an mmo with pvp you need something to look forward to, you need to build your character. This gives you one more reason to go out there and grind. Give a try to shaiya, it will give you an idea of how it goes.
Shaiya doesn't have open world pvp. The way they implemented it it would be perfect for lotro, that's why I chose it as example.
Hey, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you here. I just expressed and shared my opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.
I posted that I had a lock with full season 3 gear (completed the set before I left) with a 1900s rating (without buying points) over 400 resilence and 1k spell damage. I said I love pvp and that's the main reason I played wow since launch. So don't tell me I've never pvped (yes I've pvped in more then just wow) when it's you that don't read posts. Like I said before lotro is a pve game first and they just made pvp to make some of the people that liked that happy.
I didn't platy LotR but it's one of the few p2p MMO's that I haven't played since like 1999.
These are a few things that bug the hell out of me about these games Asian f2p grinders that are typically not a problem in p2p games;
Customization- Need more than 4 choices for face,hair,eyes. I'm still trying to figure out how they can work so hard to make a beautiful game and then spend like 10 minutes programming customization features. It's pretty sad when you could strip off comeltely naked and people would still be absolutely sure what class you are.
Classes are typically race/gender locked. Umm, yeah.
Clones all over the place. This kinds bounces back to the problem with lack of customization but nothing shows the lack of variety and uniqueness when you're tripping over an exact clone of yourself every 5 meters. Which leads to my next point
Loot- Usually one set every 10/20 levels and that's it. No different colors or chances for a totally different set alltogether ...................b-o-r-i-n-g
Item shop or be a gimp. Kinda defeats the purpose of calling it a f2p game when you'd pretty much have to buy items to compete in PvP or to get the best progression in PvE. The irony is that these games probably make more per player than subscription games. Probably why you see a new Asian grinder popping up every 6 months or so. And they apparently don't take that money and invest it in quality.
Variety with mobs ,or in this case the lack thereof. Sorry but taking a mob and doubleing it's size does not really consituite creating a new mob. If you were to look at each truely original mob in the bestiary you'd see how uttelrly pathetic the lack of diversity is in these games.
1,000,000,000 player shops in the middle of town to lag you the hell out. Seriosuly, is it that much trouble to have some kind of auction house setup that's been standard in most quality games for the last 5 years or at least add a way to organize player shops? Most of these games don't ship with this feature but might add it later down the road when nobody cares or plays anymore.
Most of these are grind oriented at mid-higher levels at least, most of the time the whole game.
etc etc etc
Good for you if you love these games but for people that can actually afford $15/month it's hard to attempt playing free games. In most of this cases you get what you pay for. It seems Asians just need a weapon and a mob to smack but I think most Westerners except a little more, except kids without credit cards.