Like many others who will read this post, EQ was my first mmo... haters, if your bored, feel free.
I agree. The difficulty was what made for a good community. You NEEDED friends and help in that game. It wasn't like WoW where you could just play the game by yourself to max level.
There were some things, however, that were ridiculous. Things like a 30 minute real time boat ride across the ocean, or sitting down to learn spells and being able to see nothing but your spell book until the spells were learned.
There's a happy medium between EQ and Wow, IMO. A few more time sinks than WoW, and few less than EQ.
I used to bitch about the time sinks in EQ, but then I played CoH and it has almost zero time sinks. You don't shop for gear, you don't spend time healing, and in combat there's almost no downtime at all. In fact there's not even time chat while you're traveling, because you're zipping around, flying around obsticles, making super jumps, or teleporting.
the pace is so fast, you join a group, kill, kill, kill, where's the next mission?, kill, kill, kill, and then it's, thanks for group, cya. There's no time to chat unless you're using voice chat.
Well said. The difficulty made you talk to your fellow player... it made you correct your mistakes and play smartly... it made the rewards feel like, well, ACTUAL rewards!!!
But like the above poster said... a 30 minute real-time boat ride with nothing to do but have a spamming conversation with someone you paid to learn a foreign language, was not needed.
Balance... something between WoW and EQ. Not all time sinks and death penalties are bad... they can promote a good, helpful community of players that learn from their mistakes.
Originally posted by steuss EQ gave the user a feel of a WORLD.
I think, in this regard, people are looking through rose colored glasses a bit too much. Now I'll admit that I got swept up in the immersive "world" feeling too, in the early days. But I know that for myself it was mostly a product of my own imagination and had little to do with the actual game.
I truly believe that the "world" feeling that a lot of us got was just a by-product of our awe and wonder at this new experience. We didn't know what to expect. It was all still new to us. We weren't familiar with the whole mmorpg experience and jaded yet. We got caught up in the magic of this new thing and our imaginations filled in the blanks.
But if you look at what EQ was in a dispassionate and objective way it really wasn't a WORLD type of game. In fact it was very shallow and linear. I mean, what did we actually DO in EQ? We leveled up, went to the next tier of zones, leveled up again, went to the next tier of zones and so on.
The game wasn't sandboxy at all and it was extremely static. You couldn't build anything and any creatures you killed would respawn after a set period of time and usually in the exact same spot as before.
It was a linear game for the same reason that all level based games are linear. It's a one way street. Content that you out-level becames obsolete as if the world is desolving behind you (what I call disposable content). That's why all the starting towns and low level areas were empty and forgotten after a while.
The only thing linear about EQ is that you start off weak and end up strong. I don't know any other game that departs from this model, other than traditional FPS that do not award experience points. Nothing in EQ was linear for me; at an early level I traveled vast distances; and spent times hunting in numerous dungeons. When I had alts; I started in completely different cities and had vastly different experiences. Very few people did quests; and if they did it was for the sake of adventure because the rewards were not worth the effort (except soulfire, ftw).
UO was my first game; it was unplayable. I don't know if it was lag or frame-rate; but the game was like a slide-show with NOTHING to hunt. Vast wasteland with huge loadtimes (thanks to player made housing), and tunnel vision, showing you only a teeny portion of the map in top-down view. It had an utter lack of immersion because you couldn't look around other than that 10x10 square surrounding your character. Lost interest very quickly. When Second Age came out, I planned on buying it and giving it another try. But I went to gamecenter.com to check out the review; and EQ was front page news. Bought EQ and was overwhelmed. Here was a game that played fluidly, had mobs to hunt, and was a world that I could look around and see from first person perspective.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Many just have to do with when it came out. The market was still new, there was very little competition etc
You had to actually figure stuff out. There wasn't 100 different websites that could tell you everything. It was in general beneficial to group...
At launch there were very few cleric.. I happened to play one. If I was online I had a group or was being asked to join one.
The only thing I really liked about EQ... if someone acted like a total ass... I wouldn't group with them. Yes I kept a list.. no group.. no ress. (remember ress was the only way to get rid of some of that xp debt and think of all the hell levels at launch).
I got asked to join a group.. oh sorry I won't group with that person. "we kicked them from group will you join..".
It was the only time you had some power to punish that bad element that is so common in todays games. Oh other than UO where you could just kill them and take their stuff.
I played UO longer than any other MMO out.. as far as consecutive time goes. My experience from launch until when I quit doesn't really mesh with some of the description I've seen here but... that's not what the OP was talking about.
Short version... EQ was what it was.. because of when it was launched.
I think it was pretty outstanding for its time. It basically layed out the foundations for the success that is WoW with all its incorporated concepts. I know a lot of it stemmed from muds- but taking a game merely from text form into a visualized world as well as on top with all the technical challenges is an impressive achievement- let alone having almost real-time combat and providing an addictive quality to the game.
I also think it contained a certain taste which naturally wasn't popular to all- with which there was the inevitably going to come along a bigger rival that would encompass a more popular taste(In fact, I predicted this at the time). I think that niche taste is what some EQ fans still kind of yearn after.(being not really replicated at all- being not exactly very popular)
In fact, an example of this is a warcraft mod called Dota. There started the first Dota and then there came a more popular Dota. The second Dota everyone knows about(Dota Allstars). Dota Allstars was based and copied many aspects of the original Dota but the original Dota still retained a distinctive appeal. -It is generally more team-work based than the following Dota.
To the carebear OP. THere are 928392832 mmorpgs on the market that are just like EQ, i dont' see what you have to complain about. If anything there is a severe shortage of hardcore PVP mmorpgs.
You should be in World of Warcraft right now raiding, that is what you people do best.
To the carebear OP. THere are 928392832 mmorpgs on the market that are just like EQ, i dont' see what you have to complain about. If anything there is a severe shortage of hardcore PVP mmorpgs. You should be in World of Warcraft right now raiding, that is what you people do best.
To the carebear OP. THere are 928392832 mmorpgs on the market that are just like EQ, i dont' see what you have to complain about. If anything there is a severe shortage of hardcore PVP mmorpgs. You should be in World of Warcraft right now raiding, that is what you people do best.
Obviously you didn't play on a red EQ server.
Exactly. Celestis is clearly uninformed. The team PvP server was mad fun.
I played and loved much of EQ and yep, EQ was the 1 that started it all....
All the grinding, all the camping, all the timesinks, all the work with little play, the 4+ hour raids full of lag, the generic craft skills that produce items nobody wants by the time your high enough to make them, the acceptance of dueling as a form of pvp, the generic class system, the everybody who plays "X" class looks alike system.
Yep, pretty much everything bad about MMos came from EQ. Everything these boards are flooded with complaints about. They all originated with EQ.
I played and loved much of EQ and yep, EQ was the 1 that started it all.... All the grinding, all the camping, all the timesinks, all the work with little play, the 4+ hour raids full of lag, the generic craft skills that produce items nobody wants by the time your high enough to make them, the acceptance of dueling as a form of pvp, the generic class system, the everybody who plays "X" class looks alike system. Yep, pretty much everything bad about MMos came from EQ. Everything these boards are flooded with complaints about. They all originated with EQ.
I have to agree. It did expand the genre, just not in the right direction. Instead of a virtual world it set it on the route which eventually leads to WoW. With the disposable content and zones that are only used for grinding within certain levels.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open. Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
if you think EQ was hard, m59 was insane. Always enabled pvp, and anyone could loot your corpse. Thankfully the player base was low enough that if you were carefull you didnt get killed all the time... I remember having the little map up while fighting ants, or trolls or whatnot, and if another PC came into the zone i would run to another zone because usually they would try to kill you. If you got to 20% hp, you would run even from a weak rat, because you never know if your corpse will still be there by the time you make it back.
Then UO came out, and most people left m59 to play it... but it was top down isometric, where meridian59 was semi- 3d (using sprites).
And then came EQ... it was considerably easier than anything that had come before, only you could loot your corpse(unless you allowed someone specific to,) you only lost a little exp when you died, and the gameworld was HUGE even at the beginning. IMO the best levels of eq was 28-40, due to the increased power of your character, and the wide range of difficulty levels to choose from. if you were lvl 28 and your group was really good, you could goto level 35ish areas and clean up... or if you were only soso, you could stick to your level or lower areas and still feel challenged. after you get to 50 (or 60) your character was powerfull enough to solo alot of things, and when you grouped the challenge wasnt really there... except for the challenge of not getting trained while your halfway through a dungeon.... usually by someone who's capped and has "epic" gear, trying to get to a boss mob for loot (ie black silk sash.) When you were high as you could be, and needed raids to get better gear, the problem became having enough time to do ANYTHING... it could take 4-6 hours just to get people to the raid, not to mention the time taken to tell everyone what to do, what group to be in, etc etc etc. And then someone would break mez, everyone would die, and a 3 hour corpse recovery would start (if you werent lucky enough for cleric to DI/log)
Then came DaoC... which unfortunatly gave the same experience to a level one as a level 50.... so the few people who actually worked up to high levels were able to powerlevel their friends up within days, making the game a bunch of high lvl newbies. Also, it tried to have massive RvR battles with too little hardware to back them up. 30 midgards would show up to a BG, then 25 albions would show... commence lagfest. the 3 people with T1's and high end computers would run circles around everyone else.
after that came the next generation of mmorpg: wow, eq2, CoH. much easier, more appealing to people who dont have time for 8 hour(plus) raids. so the quality of people on average was much less. there were still really good people in any/all of those games, but they were drowned in mediocrity.
I played and loved much of EQ and yep, EQ was the 1 that started it all.... All the grinding, all the camping, all the timesinks, all the work with little play, the 4+ hour raids full of lag, the generic craft skills that produce items nobody wants by the time your high enough to make them, the acceptance of dueling as a form of pvp, the generic class system, the everybody who plays "X" class looks alike system. Yep, pretty much everything bad about MMos came from EQ. Everything these boards are flooded with complaints about. They all originated with EQ.
Another uninformed person.
Crafting was generic which produced items nobody wanted? These links from EQTraders show otherwise:
The fact that it was a major grind and time sink to max you skills guaranteed that the better items would be in high demand because most players(such as yourself) lacked the will to put forth the effort to accomplish the goal. I was a Grandmaster Tailor, the first on my server and one of only a few for YEARS. Tailoring was one of the most difficult and tedious tradeskills to master, at least back in the day pre Luclin, and I enjoyed the entire process because I knew all the hard work would pay off in the end and it did big time. I was famous as a crafter. Everyone came to me for the best tailoring items. I enjoyed taking worthy apprentices under my wing, mentoring them and showing them the ropes, as well as the social interaction of building relationships thru trade.
Crafting in WoW for example is a joke, because it is so easy to max your skills that EVERYONE is a master crafter. What is the point in being one of the many? The market becomes saturated and there is no feeling of accomplishment.
The grinding, timesinks and camping that enhanced becoming a Master Crafter were serving the same purpose for leveling and maxing your adventuring skills, the purpose of meaningful achievement and feeling of accomplishment. I don't find that with simplistic games like LoTRO and WoW. I repeat: I enjoy the so-called work of grinding and timesinks if they serve a purpose and they do. It's about the journey.
If you wanted PvP you could play on a PvP server. Nuff said on that.
I agree raiding sucks. I don't raid. I mostly solo. The beauty of classic EQ pre Planes of Power though was that all 3 playstyles: soloing, grouping, raiding, were inclusive and viable and there was enough content and goals to satisfy everyone. That all changed after Planes of Power when SOE ruined the game by focusing on raiding to the detriment of soloing and small groups.
There was a good variety of physical customization at character creation and lots of armor and clothing choices, you could even dye items. Sure some people of the same class looked similar because of the focus on best items but that is to be expected in an item centirc game.
Generic classes? Hardly. Each class had some valuable skills that were exclusive to that class. There were also meaningful racial qualities and faction advantages/disadvantages which unfortunately you don't see in many newer MMOGs. Classic EQ was a hybrid system with preset skills per class that still needed to be used in order to max out.
I prefer an opportunity cost skill based game with limited skill points to train only a portion of overall available skills that then need to be used to max out, with no preset classes, and levels only to indicate relative character strength for the purpose of PvE and PvP mob comparisons, but classic EQ's hybrid system was pretty good.
The fact that it was a major grind and time sink to max you skills guaranteed that the better items would be in high demand because most players(such as yourself) lacked the will to put forth the effort to accomplish the goal. I was a Grandmaster Tailor, the first on my server and one of only a few for YEARS. Tailoring was one of the most difficult and tedious tradeskills to master, at least back in the day pre Luclin, and I enjoyed the entire process because I knew all the hard work would pay off in the end and it did big time. I was famous as a crafter. Everyone came to me for the best tailoring items. I enjoyed taking worthy apprentices under my wing, mentoring them and showing them the ropes, as well as the social interaction of building relationships thru trade. Crafting in WoW for example is a joke, because it is so easy to max your skills that EVERYONE is a master crafter. What is the point in being one of the many? The market becomes saturated and there is no feeling of accomplishment. The grinding, timesinks and camping that enhanced becoming a Master Crafter were serving the same purpose for leveling and maxing your adventuring skills, the purpose of meaningful achievement and feeling of accomplishment. I don't find that with simplistic games like LoTRO and WoW. I repeat: I enjoy the so-called work of grinding and timesinks if they serve a purpose and they do. It's about the journey. If you wanted PvP you could play on a PvP server. Nuff said on that. I agree raiding sucks. I don't raid. I mostly solo. The beauty of classic EQ pre Planes of Power though was that all 3 playstyles: soloing, grouping, raiding, were inclusive and viable and there was enough content and goals to satisfy everyone. That all changed after Planes of Power when SOE ruined the game by focusing on raiding to the detriment of soloing and small groups. There was a good variety of physical customization at character creation and lots of armor and clothing choices, you could even dye items. Sure some people of the same class looked similar because of the focus on best items but that is to be expected in an item centirc game. Generic classes? Hardly. Each class had some valuable skills that were exclusive to that class. There were also meaningful racial qualities and faction advantages/disadvantages which unfortunately you don't see in many newer MMOGs. Classic EQ was a hybrid system with preset skills per class that still needed to be used in order to max out. I prefer an opportunity cost skill based game with limited skill points to train only a portion of overall available skills that then need to be used to max out, with no preset classes, and levels only to indicate relative character strength for the purpose of PvE and PvP mob comparisons, but classic EQ's hybrid system was pretty good.
I am not uninformed. I like I said I played and loved eq for a long time. There are some good things EQ brought to the table no game has done since.
But, you didnt even try to understand what I said, and if you think EQ didnt bring all these negative things to MMos you are lieing to yourself.
I will start by saying I played up to and through the Kunark expansion. I was in a very famous guild that accomplished many things a long time b4 any others did. I was a very active member. That said, my comments were directed at the era which i played the game.
The classes of EQ: EQs classes on paper were fine. But in a group dynamic the system failed. And unfortinately every game since EQ has copied thier system rather than some other games like UO where every group wasnt the same mold. The cookie cutter group mold always outperformed every other group and therefor made certain classes, which were very fun to play otherwise, extrordinarily useless. The Shadowknight is the best example I can think of. For the 1st 2-3 years of the game, most raids didnt even bother to have a SK with them unless they were just filling spots. Furthermore, are you trying to tell me that every wizzard wasnt almost exactly the same? Every mage wasnt a cookie cutter? Not only did they have all the same abilities, they all looked exactly the same for the 1st 3 years of gameplay. Almost all gear looked the same(wihtin a class) and you could identify a class just by looking at thier armor or robe. I agree that the faction system was outstanding. They had opposing factions so people had to pick and choose. They couldnt max out all factions.
The grind: EQ was the original grind. And while it did create a sense of accomplishment for some, it just goes to show how shallow some people are. Much like many other MMO, the people who leveled the most, werent better players and hadnt accomplished more, they had just simply played the game more. It was all about /playtime....period. No accomplishment whatsoever. You couldnt log into the game and just go have fun in an effort to advance your character.
Timesinks: I have 1 word for you and it says it all......."jboots".
Tradeskills: In these forums Ive seen 100's of polls about what games had the best tradeskill system..never have i seen anyone mention EQ. The tradeskills were very symple and I can think of much worse games that had much better craft systems.
PvP: The pvp server was not in the game at release. I had put a lot of time into a character b4 they even announced they would have 1. They also never balanced the game for the PvP server and clearly stated the PvP server was never going to be the focal point of any balancing or it would upset the vast majority of servers who werent PvP.
Another trend, which I neglected to mention, that we can all thank EQ for is the pattented poor sony customer service. Lets collect a monthly fee, then provide little to no customer support. The way of the MMO ever since EQ. Lets make player GMs and give them powers even tho they arent always going to act on behalf of the company, or on behalf of the customer, but rather on thier own behalf. They can be rude, obnoxious, obtuse, and down right abusive all with the power of Sony behind them because they are GMs! Even if they are just players and not actual employees. Ill never forget the day we had a player join our guild who was a GM(on another server.) The advantage we had over other guilds was in insane. We knew every Boss b4 we ever saw his or her face.
eq like swg pre-cu was screwed when $OE stepped in. uo was screwed when they turned the game from a hardcore pvp game into candyland the mmo with trammel. the one is eve online. unless pre-cu swg comes back.
I really want to agree with you just because of the SWG part.
However, you do realize that EQ1 was a Sony project from start to finish right?
Relatively 989 Studio's, Verant Interactive and SOE were just name changes (all sony properties).
However, I fully agree with you on SWG... and I never liked EQ much anyway.
Classic EQ was great, the period the OP describes from launch til Planes of Power. SOE ruined the game after Brad quit and focused on raiding and forced grouping after that. The classic EQ world was more dangerous, exciting , and fun. There were no stupid minimaps showing you exactly where to go, no idiotic floating icons above questgivers heads, a real meaningful death penalty that made you actually fear dying and respect the environment, realistic travel times with porting limited to two classes so the world remained large, meaningful differences between the races and classes and their abilities which fostered grouping and cooperation, a slow and lengthy leveling process which increased the longevity and interest in the game and it's various regions, real faction results for attacking various NPCs which made you consider what you killed. I really miss quality quests with key word responses which required a player to actually read and think about what the questgiver was saying and explore the lands and learn the lore and problemsolve to finish the quest. Anyone who ever performed the Langseax quest in Halas knows how great some of the classic EQ quests were. You just don't see real quests like that in the newer MMOGs because they make everything so simple for every idiot to complete and most players don't even bother reading what the NPC says because they can just follow the arrow to the next NPC with a question mark above their head. Pathetic.
I wouldn't call it pathetic... those people are obviously playing for a different reason... they're not really roll playing. They are mindlessly grinding out levels, because of the subconscious conditioned Pavlovian response of kill a mob, ding, get a treat. They clearly have a different motive for playing than enjoying some story line.... more than likely, they are more focused on where they're going instead of where they are.
MMORPGs now a days are really just being used as a "Passage of rights" or some such thing... Once you've passed the test, you're then allowed to raid or pvp with others that payed their dues of endless hours of grinding....
And... that's probably contributes to why WOW is so populare. Those that dont' really want to play an RPG dont' have to... they can as you say, just follow the markers, accept quests without reading them, "follow the arrows" (sort of)... and tada....they are have accomplished something... are somewhere....
And those that do want to play an RPG can ....
Not saying anything that hasnt' been said before....
Classic EQ was great, the period the OP describes from launch til Planes of Power. SOE ruined the game after Brad quit and focused on raiding and forced grouping after that. The classic EQ world was more dangerous, exciting , and fun. There were no stupid minimaps showing you exactly where to go, no idiotic floating icons above questgivers heads, a real meaningful death penalty that made you actually fear dying and respect the environment, realistic travel times with porting limited to two classes so the world remained large, meaningful differences between the races and classes and their abilities which fostered grouping and cooperation, a slow and lengthy leveling process which increased the longevity and interest in the game and it's various regions, real faction results for attacking various NPCs which made you consider what you killed. I really miss quality quests with key word responses which required a player to actually read and think about what the questgiver was saying and explore the lands and learn the lore and problemsolve to finish the quest. Anyone who ever performed the Langseax quest in Halas knows how great some of the classic EQ quests were. You just don't see real quests like that in the newer MMOGs because they make everything so simple for every idiot to complete and most players don't even bother reading what the NPC says because they can just follow the arrow to the next NPC with a question mark above their head. Pathetic.
I wouldn't call it pathetic... those people are obviously playing for a different reason... they're not really roll playing. They are mindlessly grinding out levels, because of the subconscious conditioned Pavlovian response of kill a mob, ding, get a treat. They clearly have a different motive for playing than enjoying some story line.... more than likely, they are more focused on where they're going instead of where they are.
MMORPGs now a days are really just being used as a "Passage of rights" or some such thing... Once you've passed the test, you're then allowed to raid or pvp with others that payed their dues of endless hours of grinding....
And... that's probably contributes to why WOW is so populare. Those that dont' really want to play an RPG dont' have to... they can as you say, just follow the markers, accept quests without reading them, "follow the arrows" (sort of)... and tada....they are have accomplished something... are somewhere....
And those that do want to play an RPG can ....
Not saying anything that hasnt' been said before....
Just passing the time
As a note, I have seen the word 'Pavlovian' misused a few times in this thread...
I would probably recommend a little reading to clarify actually what Pavlov was all about. Not starting a fight, just saying.
In truth, EQ used exactly the same motivators to motivate it's players as those that motivate us through life, and the same ones that motivate us in 'modern' games. We achieve tasks for rewards, even if that 'only' reward is just to make us feel better about ourselves.
The only difference, as far as I can see, between EQ and something like, say, LotR is that the task has been made easier and shorter and the reward bigger and shinier.
I guess in todays lazy fat instant gratification society thats gonna always be a winner.
Classic EQ was great, the period the OP describes from launch til Planes of Power. SOE ruined the game after Brad quit and focused on raiding and forced grouping after that. The classic EQ world was more dangerous, exciting , and fun. There were no stupid minimaps showing you exactly where to go, no idiotic floating icons above questgivers heads, a real meaningful death penalty that made you actually fear dying and respect the environment, realistic travel times with porting limited to two classes so the world remained large, meaningful differences between the races and classes and their abilities which fostered grouping and cooperation, a slow and lengthy leveling process which increased the longevity and interest in the game and it's various regions, real faction results for attacking various NPCs which made you consider what you killed. I really miss quality quests with key word responses which required a player to actually read and think about what the questgiver was saying and explore the lands and learn the lore and problemsolve to finish the quest. Anyone who ever performed the Langseax quest in Halas knows how great some of the classic EQ quests were. You just don't see real quests like that in the newer MMOGs because they make everything so simple for every idiot to complete and most players don't even bother reading what the NPC says because they can just follow the arrow to the next NPC with a question mark above their head. Pathetic.
I wouldn't call it pathetic... those people are obviously playing for a different reason... they're not really roll playing. They are mindlessly grinding out levels, because of the subconscious conditioned Pavlovian response of kill a mob, ding, get a treat. They clearly have a different motive for playing than enjoying some story line.... more than likely, they are more focused on where they're going instead of where they are.
MMORPGs now a days are really just being used as a "Passage of rights" or some such thing... Once you've passed the test, you're then allowed to raid or pvp with others that payed their dues of endless hours of grinding....
And... that's probably contributes to why WOW is so populare. Those that dont' really want to play an RPG dont' have to... they can as you say, just follow the markers, accept quests without reading them, "follow the arrows" (sort of)... and tada....they are have accomplished something... are somewhere....
And those that do want to play an RPG can ....
Not saying anything that hasnt' been said before....
Just passing the time
As a note, I have seen the word 'Pavlovian' misused a few times in this thread...
I would probably recommend a little reading to clarify actually what Pavlov was all about. Not starting a fight, just saying.
In truth, EQ used exactly the same motivators to motivate it's players as those that motivate us through life, and the same ones that motivate us in 'modern' games. We achieve tasks for rewards, even if that 'only' reward is just to make us feel better about ourselves.
The only difference, as far as I can see, between EQ and something like, say, LotR is that the task has been made easier and shorter and the reward bigger and shinier.
I guess in todays lazy fat instant gratification society thats gonna always be a winner.
I read up on it.... and thank you. I will stop ignorantly incorrectly using that term... in this context
however, i think the common misconception still makes my point
To the carebear OP. THere are 928392832 mmorpgs on the market that are just like EQ, i dont' see what you have to complain about. If anything there is a severe shortage of hardcore PVP mmorpgs. You should be in World of Warcraft right now raiding, that is what you people do best.
There may be a million EQ clones out there, but theres nothing like the real thing back in the day, and I dont know if you read my posts earlier but I explained that endless raiding is part of what killed EQ.
so what games do you play? I only ask because I'd like to be "hardcore" to
And that got me thinking, what the hell is it about EQ that provided that feeling?
It's very simple. Many others have pondered this and have come up with the same reason....
EVERYONE falls in love with the first MMORPG they play. It's like driving your very first car. You will never, ever, never, forget the first car you drive. Or like your first real kiss, or your first... you get the idea LOL!!!
I experienced it 2 1/2 times. In Runescape (technically my first mmorpg. But it's nothing compared to a "real" mmorpg, which I would later find.) In AC - my first "real" mmorpg.
When I first played EQ, I KNEW I would have fetl the exact same as you did - IF EQ had been my first mmorpg. But AC was. I still had fun in EQ. BTW, no other mmorpg, even now, has anything that comes close to the Tree Elf city in EQ.
When I first played EvE, it was my first full fledged space mmorpg. And I did feel that same feeling. I sat there staring at the screen the first time I logged in with my space ship. I was breathless. I felt like I was really in space.
Everyone feels this way about the first mmorpg they play... no matter if it's UO, AC, EQ, EvE, cSWG, or even WoW.
I'm an old EQ junky. I got bored recently and went and re-suscribed to original EQ, downloaded, installed and fired it up. Within an hour I wanted to hang my self. Looking at it now, I cannot understand how I put up with it. I think that it was so great back when it was new because there wasn't anything that had done better. It did make some big steps to start the genre to get it going and I think EQ2 did a good job capitalizing on those changes.
I'm an old EQ junky. I got bored recently and went and re-suscribed to original EQ, downloaded, installed and fired it up. Within an hour I wanted to hang my self. Looking at it now, I cannot understand how I put up with it. I think that it was so great back when it was new because there wasn't anything that had done better. It did make some big steps to start the genre to get it going and I think EQ2 did a good job capitalizing on those changes.
I used to play Pac Man. But I don't see how any amount of changes/improvement would make me want to play any version now.
For EQ, I can easily see myself play EQ3 (with pre-paid time card, no CC ever again for SOE), if it has the proper adjustments/improvements. I don't have any hope or belief for the current devs team, but eh, maybe they could prove me wrong. It is just that after the bazillions expansions, EQ2 and Vanguard, I can see a clear thrend which they are trap in.
Hardcore gaming doesn't has to be done at the expanse of the casuals, and this is a point they are not getting. See, they are trap in a vision about either giving everything to the hardcores, or everything to the casuals...and that isn't the solution. The casuals, they want to hope to be the best at what they do, and this is a legitimate request. They don't have to be good at what they don't do however, which leave you plenty of room for hardcore players. I suggest casuals server and a new loot system (see my blog if you want), but I am by no mean the only person which can bring new ideas. I am sure there is a way to make sure that the best peoples at any activity, it is the peoples doing that activity, without giving them everything, or without splitting everything as I do (if you can't think, you can always work harder, that is my approach, it work, but it involves tons of work).
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
And that got me thinking, what the hell is it about EQ that provided that feeling?
It's very simple. Many others have pondered this and have come up with the same reason....
EVERYONE falls in love with the first MMORPG they play. It's like driving your very first car. You will never, ever, never, forget the first car you drive. Or like your first real kiss, or your first... you get the idea LOL!!!
I experienced it 2 1/2 times. In Runescape (technically my first mmorpg. But it's nothing compared to a "real" mmorpg, which I would later find.) In AC - my first "real" mmorpg.
When I first played EQ, I KNEW I would have fetl the exact same as you did - IF EQ had been my first mmorpg. But AC was. I still had fun in EQ. BTW, no other mmorpg, even now, has anything that comes close to the Tree Elf city in EQ.
When I first played EvE, it was my first full fledged space mmorpg. And I did feel that same feeling. I sat there staring at the screen the first time I logged in with my space ship. I was breathless. I felt like I was really in space.
Everyone feels this way about the first mmorpg they play... no matter if it's UO, AC, EQ, EvE, cSWG, or even WoW.
but but...
I said already that I tried UO first, then EQ..
I fell in love with EQ and uninstalled UO....
Others here have also stated similar experiences, so I am thinking that your conclusion isnt the only one.
EQ opened the doors off MMO gaming, for WoW to come along after and blow them right off, when other games didnt, so obviously there was something special about it. It must have had gotten something right for so many others to copy it?
My opinion in what that 'something' was?
A combination of community and challenge level that demmanded and supported co-operative play that, in turn, created a living world where you was judged on your reputation and skill.
Whenever I got sick of the game itself, it was my guild that bought me back.
Solo focused easy mode 'MMO'RPGs will never, imo, deliver the same experience, but those who cannot or will not invest time and effort into a community won't ever admit this because it dosent benefit them to do so. All they want is ever more drop in casual lite distractions they can play for 30mins after gettin home from work/ school before their spouse/ mum tells them to get the hell back to what they should be doing.
Like I have said before, devs today are killing the goose that lays the golden eggs for a quick dinner.
I'm an old EQ junky. I got bored recently and went and re-suscribed to original EQ, downloaded, installed and fired it up. Within an hour I wanted to hang my self. Looking at it now, I cannot understand how I put up with it. I think that it was so great back when it was new because there wasn't anything that had done better. It did make some big steps to start the genre to get it going and I think EQ2 did a good job capitalizing on those changes.
I used to play Pac Man. But I don't see how any amount of changes/improvement would make me want to play any version now.
I downloaded Defender and Joust the other day and am loving them!
Everyone loves their first MMO. The first MMORPGs were such a monumental change from the computer games we had been playing that it game us a live experience, a breath of life in a game that had always been dead. The sense that there was no 'Pause' button no 'Save Game' option simply changed everything. The early games didn't have the same computing power that today's games do... that is exactly what made them great in many ways. Early games catered to a specific market... mostly the middle to upper income computer owners that had internet and high end computers that could play games online. Because of this you had a more mature population... not just in age but in mentality. Today's games are sold to the masses and have now dropped down to try and include everyone. This added hoards of kids and less mature players to the populations. But business is business and when you are making a game today your market will be over 80% from the mid to lower brackets in age and income and ability. You will sell to your market and hence, games have been dumbed down to meet the expectations, abilitiies and maturity level of a much less sophisticated group. That being said... People that came from EQ are always looking to replace that experience. It became the benchmark for their MMO world. Expectations are now founded on what emotional responce they had to that game. Much of the emotion was about the new genre and not the game itself. I was an Asheron's Call baby. And it changed the way I view all games to this very day. When, after a year or so I tried EverQuest, I didn't like it. It was too simple and confining. It lacked the depth and character developement that AC had. It was like little slot-cars racing around the exact same line in the track, over and over and over. Asheron's Call spoiled me with its open character/power/skill design. I can never go back to a game like World of Warcraft or any of the other EQ-clones. They simply are too restrictive now that I have tasted MMORPG freedom!
I also think a good amount of players came from MUDs. I remember playing my favorite (Medievia) and had an absolute blast. The freedom you had in that game was tremendous. Granted, it was all ANSI text based, but you pretty much could travel where ever you wanted. Whether or not that was wise was another question entirely. If your corpse was in a "bad" spot... ugh!
When EQ came out, I remember how fun that was. Finally, some graphics to the game genre I enjoyed. It did a decent enough job I thought.
Then the next evolution with WoW. Very cookie cutter based. Doing a quest was a matter of going to a website, looking up the coords, and completed. Also, the players were vastly different. Name calling, animosity, just not fun any longer. Nothing in the way of diverse classes/professions. A shaman was a shaman was a shaman. Meh.
One compelling point you bring up... because computers and ISP connectivity are more readily available today - the impact of that on MMORPGs. I can see your point here. Younger, perhaps less mature kids now have access to social situations in which they simply do not know how to act. Depending on how correct this theory is... leads me to wonder if this less mature attitude will simply become MORE prevalent in the time to come.
I miss the days of old, that original "free" feeling. For me, I miss my MUD days the most.
"...and with that cryptic comment, I'm off to bed!"
Comments
I agree. The difficulty was what made for a good community. You NEEDED friends and help in that game. It wasn't like WoW where you could just play the game by yourself to max level.
There were some things, however, that were ridiculous. Things like a 30 minute real time boat ride across the ocean, or sitting down to learn spells and being able to see nothing but your spell book until the spells were learned.
There's a happy medium between EQ and Wow, IMO. A few more time sinks than WoW, and few less than EQ.
I used to bitch about the time sinks in EQ, but then I played CoH and it has almost zero time sinks. You don't shop for gear, you don't spend time healing, and in combat there's almost no downtime at all. In fact there's not even time chat while you're traveling, because you're zipping around, flying around obsticles, making super jumps, or teleporting.
the pace is so fast, you join a group, kill, kill, kill, where's the next mission?, kill, kill, kill, and then it's, thanks for group, cya. There's no time to chat unless you're using voice chat.
Well said. The difficulty made you talk to your fellow player... it made you correct your mistakes and play smartly... it made the rewards feel like, well, ACTUAL rewards!!!
But like the above poster said... a 30 minute real-time boat ride with nothing to do but have a spamming conversation with someone you paid to learn a foreign language, was not needed.
Balance... something between WoW and EQ. Not all time sinks and death penalties are bad... they can promote a good, helpful community of players that learn from their mistakes.
I truly believe that the "world" feeling that a lot of us got was just a by-product of our awe and wonder at this new experience. We didn't know what to expect. It was all still new to us. We weren't familiar with the whole mmorpg experience and jaded yet. We got caught up in the magic of this new thing and our imaginations filled in the blanks.
But if you look at what EQ was in a dispassionate and objective way it really wasn't a WORLD type of game. In fact it was very shallow and linear. I mean, what did we actually DO in EQ? We leveled up, went to the next tier of zones, leveled up again, went to the next tier of zones and so on.
The game wasn't sandboxy at all and it was extremely static. You couldn't build anything and any creatures you killed would respawn after a set period of time and usually in the exact same spot as before.
It was a linear game for the same reason that all level based games are linear. It's a one way street. Content that you out-level becames obsolete as if the world is desolving behind you (what I call disposable content). That's why all the starting towns and low level areas were empty and forgotten after a while.
The only thing linear about EQ is that you start off weak and end up strong. I don't know any other game that departs from this model, other than traditional FPS that do not award experience points. Nothing in EQ was linear for me; at an early level I traveled vast distances; and spent times hunting in numerous dungeons. When I had alts; I started in completely different cities and had vastly different experiences. Very few people did quests; and if they did it was for the sake of adventure because the rewards were not worth the effort (except soulfire, ftw).
UO was my first game; it was unplayable. I don't know if it was lag or frame-rate; but the game was like a slide-show with NOTHING to hunt. Vast wasteland with huge loadtimes (thanks to player made housing), and tunnel vision, showing you only a teeny portion of the map in top-down view. It had an utter lack of immersion because you couldn't look around other than that 10x10 square surrounding your character. Lost interest very quickly. When Second Age came out, I planned on buying it and giving it another try. But I went to gamecenter.com to check out the review; and EQ was front page news. Bought EQ and was overwhelmed. Here was a game that played fluidly, had mobs to hunt, and was a world that I could look around and see from first person perspective.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Why EQ was.. what it was..
Many just have to do with when it came out. The market was still new, there was very little competition etc
You had to actually figure stuff out. There wasn't 100 different websites that could tell you everything. It was in general beneficial to group...
At launch there were very few cleric.. I happened to play one. If I was online I had a group or was being asked to join one.
The only thing I really liked about EQ... if someone acted like a total ass... I wouldn't group with them. Yes I kept a list.. no group.. no ress. (remember ress was the only way to get rid of some of that xp debt and think of all the hell levels at launch).
I got asked to join a group.. oh sorry I won't group with that person. "we kicked them from group will you join..".
It was the only time you had some power to punish that bad element that is so common in todays games. Oh other than UO where you could just kill them and take their stuff.
I played UO longer than any other MMO out.. as far as consecutive time goes. My experience from launch until when I quit doesn't really mesh with some of the description I've seen here but... that's not what the OP was talking about.
Short version... EQ was what it was.. because of when it was launched.
I think it was pretty outstanding for its time. It basically layed out the foundations for the success that is WoW with all its incorporated concepts. I know a lot of it stemmed from muds- but taking a game merely from text form into a visualized world as well as on top with all the technical challenges is an impressive achievement- let alone having almost real-time combat and providing an addictive quality to the game.
I also think it contained a certain taste which naturally wasn't popular to all- with which there was the inevitably going to come along a bigger rival that would encompass a more popular taste(In fact, I predicted this at the time). I think that niche taste is what some EQ fans still kind of yearn after.(being not really replicated at all- being not exactly very popular)
In fact, an example of this is a warcraft mod called Dota. There started the first Dota and then there came a more popular Dota. The second Dota everyone knows about(Dota Allstars). Dota Allstars was based and copied many aspects of the original Dota but the original Dota still retained a distinctive appeal. -It is generally more team-work based than the following Dota.
To the carebear OP. THere are 928392832 mmorpgs on the market that are just like EQ, i dont' see what you have to complain about. If anything there is a severe shortage of hardcore PVP mmorpgs.
You should be in World of Warcraft right now raiding, that is what you people do best.
Obviously you didn't play on a red EQ server.
Obviously you didn't play on a red EQ server.
Exactly. Celestis is clearly uninformed. The team PvP server was mad fun.
I played and loved much of EQ and yep, EQ was the 1 that started it all....
All the grinding, all the camping, all the timesinks, all the work with little play, the 4+ hour raids full of lag, the generic craft skills that produce items nobody wants by the time your high enough to make them, the acceptance of dueling as a form of pvp, the generic class system, the everybody who plays "X" class looks alike system.
Yep, pretty much everything bad about MMos came from EQ. Everything these boards are flooded with complaints about. They all originated with EQ.
I have to agree. It did expand the genre, just not in the right direction. Instead of a virtual world it set it on the route which eventually leads to WoW. With the disposable content and zones that are only used for grinding within certain levels.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open.
Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
Heres to Meridian 59!
if you think EQ was hard, m59 was insane. Always enabled pvp, and anyone could loot your corpse. Thankfully the player base was low enough that if you were carefull you didnt get killed all the time... I remember having the little map up while fighting ants, or trolls or whatnot, and if another PC came into the zone i would run to another zone because usually they would try to kill you. If you got to 20% hp, you would run even from a weak rat, because you never know if your corpse will still be there by the time you make it back.
Then UO came out, and most people left m59 to play it... but it was top down isometric, where meridian59 was semi- 3d (using sprites).
And then came EQ... it was considerably easier than anything that had come before, only you could loot your corpse(unless you allowed someone specific to,) you only lost a little exp when you died, and the gameworld was HUGE even at the beginning. IMO the best levels of eq was 28-40, due to the increased power of your character, and the wide range of difficulty levels to choose from. if you were lvl 28 and your group was really good, you could goto level 35ish areas and clean up... or if you were only soso, you could stick to your level or lower areas and still feel challenged. after you get to 50 (or 60) your character was powerfull enough to solo alot of things, and when you grouped the challenge wasnt really there... except for the challenge of not getting trained while your halfway through a dungeon.... usually by someone who's capped and has "epic" gear, trying to get to a boss mob for loot (ie black silk sash.) When you were high as you could be, and needed raids to get better gear, the problem became having enough time to do ANYTHING... it could take 4-6 hours just to get people to the raid, not to mention the time taken to tell everyone what to do, what group to be in, etc etc etc. And then someone would break mez, everyone would die, and a 3 hour corpse recovery would start (if you werent lucky enough for cleric to DI/log)
Then came DaoC... which unfortunatly gave the same experience to a level one as a level 50.... so the few people who actually worked up to high levels were able to powerlevel their friends up within days, making the game a bunch of high lvl newbies. Also, it tried to have massive RvR battles with too little hardware to back them up. 30 midgards would show up to a BG, then 25 albions would show... commence lagfest. the 3 people with T1's and high end computers would run circles around everyone else.
after that came the next generation of mmorpg: wow, eq2, CoH. much easier, more appealing to people who dont have time for 8 hour(plus) raids. so the quality of people on average was much less. there were still really good people in any/all of those games, but they were drowned in mediocrity.
thats my 2 cents, anyway.
Crafting was generic which produced items nobody wanted? These links from EQTraders show otherwise:
Learn FishingLearn Fletching
Learn Alchemy
Learn Baking
Learn Brewing
Learn Jewelcraft
Learn Make Poison
Learn Pottery
Learn Smithing
Learn Spell Research
Learn Tailoring
Alchemy Recipes
Baking Recipes
Brewing Recipes
Cultural Recipes
Enchant-Imbue Gem Recipes
Fishing Recipes
Fletching Recipes
Jewelcraft Recipes
Make Poison Recipes
No Skill Recipes
Pottery Recipes
Smithing Recipes
Spell Research Recipes
Tailoring Recipes
Tinkering Recipes
The fact that it was a major grind and time sink to max you skills guaranteed that the better items would be in high demand because most players(such as yourself) lacked the will to put forth the effort to accomplish the goal. I was a Grandmaster Tailor, the first on my server and one of only a few for YEARS. Tailoring was one of the most difficult and tedious tradeskills to master, at least back in the day pre Luclin, and I enjoyed the entire process because I knew all the hard work would pay off in the end and it did big time. I was famous as a crafter. Everyone came to me for the best tailoring items. I enjoyed taking worthy apprentices under my wing, mentoring them and showing them the ropes, as well as the social interaction of building relationships thru trade.
Crafting in WoW for example is a joke, because it is so easy to max your skills that EVERYONE is a master crafter. What is the point in being one of the many? The market becomes saturated and there is no feeling of accomplishment.
The grinding, timesinks and camping that enhanced becoming a Master Crafter were serving the same purpose for leveling and maxing your adventuring skills, the purpose of meaningful achievement and feeling of accomplishment. I don't find that with simplistic games like LoTRO and WoW. I repeat: I enjoy the so-called work of grinding and timesinks if they serve a purpose and they do. It's about the journey.
If you wanted PvP you could play on a PvP server. Nuff said on that.
I agree raiding sucks. I don't raid. I mostly solo. The beauty of classic EQ pre Planes of Power though was that all 3 playstyles: soloing, grouping, raiding, were inclusive and viable and there was enough content and goals to satisfy everyone. That all changed after Planes of Power when SOE ruined the game by focusing on raiding to the detriment of soloing and small groups.
There was a good variety of physical customization at character creation and lots of armor and clothing choices, you could even dye items. Sure some people of the same class looked similar because of the focus on best items but that is to be expected in an item centirc game.
Generic classes? Hardly. Each class had some valuable skills that were exclusive to that class. There were also meaningful racial qualities and faction advantages/disadvantages which unfortunately you don't see in many newer MMOGs. Classic EQ was a hybrid system with preset skills per class that still needed to be used in order to max out.
I prefer an opportunity cost skill based game with limited skill points to train only a portion of overall available skills that then need to be used to max out, with no preset classes, and levels only to indicate relative character strength for the purpose of PvE and PvP mob comparisons, but classic EQ's hybrid system was pretty good.
But, you didnt even try to understand what I said, and if you think EQ didnt bring all these negative things to MMos you are lieing to yourself.
I will start by saying I played up to and through the Kunark expansion. I was in a very famous guild that accomplished many things a long time b4 any others did. I was a very active member. That said, my comments were directed at the era which i played the game.
The classes of EQ: EQs classes on paper were fine. But in a group dynamic the system failed. And unfortinately every game since EQ has copied thier system rather than some other games like UO where every group wasnt the same mold. The cookie cutter group mold always outperformed every other group and therefor made certain classes, which were very fun to play otherwise, extrordinarily useless. The Shadowknight is the best example I can think of. For the 1st 2-3 years of the game, most raids didnt even bother to have a SK with them unless they were just filling spots. Furthermore, are you trying to tell me that every wizzard wasnt almost exactly the same? Every mage wasnt a cookie cutter? Not only did they have all the same abilities, they all looked exactly the same for the 1st 3 years of gameplay. Almost all gear looked the same(wihtin a class) and you could identify a class just by looking at thier armor or robe. I agree that the faction system was outstanding. They had opposing factions so people had to pick and choose. They couldnt max out all factions.
The grind: EQ was the original grind. And while it did create a sense of accomplishment for some, it just goes to show how shallow some people are. Much like many other MMO, the people who leveled the most, werent better players and hadnt accomplished more, they had just simply played the game more. It was all about /playtime....period. No accomplishment whatsoever. You couldnt log into the game and just go have fun in an effort to advance your character.
Timesinks: I have 1 word for you and it says it all......."jboots".
Tradeskills: In these forums Ive seen 100's of polls about what games had the best tradeskill system..never have i seen anyone mention EQ. The tradeskills were very symple and I can think of much worse games that had much better craft systems.
PvP: The pvp server was not in the game at release. I had put a lot of time into a character b4 they even announced they would have 1. They also never balanced the game for the PvP server and clearly stated the PvP server was never going to be the focal point of any balancing or it would upset the vast majority of servers who werent PvP.
Another trend, which I neglected to mention, that we can all thank EQ for is the pattented poor sony customer service. Lets collect a monthly fee, then provide little to no customer support. The way of the MMO ever since EQ. Lets make player GMs and give them powers even tho they arent always going to act on behalf of the company, or on behalf of the customer, but rather on thier own behalf. They can be rude, obnoxious, obtuse, and down right abusive all with the power of Sony behind them because they are GMs! Even if they are just players and not actual employees. Ill never forget the day we had a player join our guild who was a GM(on another server.) The advantage we had over other guilds was in insane. We knew every Boss b4 we ever saw his or her face.
eq like swg pre-cu was screwed when $OE stepped in.
uo was screwed when they turned the game from a hardcore pvp game into candyland the mmo with trammel.
the one is eve online. unless pre-cu swg comes back.
However, you do realize that EQ1 was a Sony project from start to finish right?
Relatively 989 Studio's, Verant Interactive and SOE were just name changes (all sony properties).
However, I fully agree with you on SWG... and I never liked EQ much anyway.
MMORPGs now a days are really just being used as a "Passage of rights" or some such thing... Once you've passed the test, you're then allowed to raid or pvp with others that payed their dues of endless hours of grinding....
And... that's probably contributes to why WOW is so populare. Those that dont' really want to play an RPG dont' have to... they can as you say, just follow the markers, accept quests without reading them, "follow the arrows" (sort of)... and tada....they are have accomplished something... are somewhere....
And those that do want to play an RPG can ....
Not saying anything that hasnt' been said before....
Just passing the time
MMORPGs now a days are really just being used as a "Passage of rights" or some such thing... Once you've passed the test, you're then allowed to raid or pvp with others that payed their dues of endless hours of grinding....
And... that's probably contributes to why WOW is so populare. Those that dont' really want to play an RPG dont' have to... they can as you say, just follow the markers, accept quests without reading them, "follow the arrows" (sort of)... and tada....they are have accomplished something... are somewhere....
And those that do want to play an RPG can ....
Not saying anything that hasnt' been said before....
Just passing the time
As a note, I have seen the word 'Pavlovian' misused a few times in this thread...
I would probably recommend a little reading to clarify actually what Pavlov was all about. Not starting a fight, just saying.
In truth, EQ used exactly the same motivators to motivate it's players as those that motivate us through life, and the same ones that motivate us in 'modern' games. We achieve tasks for rewards, even if that 'only' reward is just to make us feel better about ourselves.
The only difference, as far as I can see, between EQ and something like, say, LotR is that the task has been made easier and shorter and the reward bigger and shinier.
I guess in todays lazy fat instant gratification society thats gonna always be a winner.
I agree. EQ1 was the best MMO ever and no MMO will ever be as good.
MMORPGs now a days are really just being used as a "Passage of rights" or some such thing... Once you've passed the test, you're then allowed to raid or pvp with others that payed their dues of endless hours of grinding....
And... that's probably contributes to why WOW is so populare. Those that dont' really want to play an RPG dont' have to... they can as you say, just follow the markers, accept quests without reading them, "follow the arrows" (sort of)... and tada....they are have accomplished something... are somewhere....
And those that do want to play an RPG can ....
Not saying anything that hasnt' been said before....
Just passing the time
As a note, I have seen the word 'Pavlovian' misused a few times in this thread...
I would probably recommend a little reading to clarify actually what Pavlov was all about. Not starting a fight, just saying.
In truth, EQ used exactly the same motivators to motivate it's players as those that motivate us through life, and the same ones that motivate us in 'modern' games. We achieve tasks for rewards, even if that 'only' reward is just to make us feel better about ourselves.
The only difference, as far as I can see, between EQ and something like, say, LotR is that the task has been made easier and shorter and the reward bigger and shinier.
I guess in todays lazy fat instant gratification society thats gonna always be a winner.
I read up on it.... and thank you. I will stop ignorantly incorrectly using that term... in this context
however, i think the common misconception still makes my point
so what games do you play? I only ask because I'd like to be "hardcore" to
It's very simple. Many others have pondered this and have come up with the same reason....
EVERYONE falls in love with the first MMORPG they play. It's like driving your very first car. You will never, ever, never, forget the first car you drive. Or like your first real kiss, or your first... you get the idea LOL!!!
I experienced it 2 1/2 times. In Runescape (technically my first mmorpg. But it's nothing compared to a "real" mmorpg, which I would later find.) In AC - my first "real" mmorpg.
When I first played EQ, I KNEW I would have fetl the exact same as you did - IF EQ had been my first mmorpg. But AC was. I still had fun in EQ. BTW, no other mmorpg, even now, has anything that comes close to the Tree Elf city in EQ.
When I first played EvE, it was my first full fledged space mmorpg. And I did feel that same feeling. I sat there staring at the screen the first time I logged in with my space ship. I was breathless. I felt like I was really in space.
Everyone feels this way about the first mmorpg they play... no matter if it's UO, AC, EQ, EvE, cSWG, or even WoW.
I'm an old EQ junky. I got bored recently and went and re-suscribed to original EQ, downloaded, installed and fired it up. Within an hour I wanted to hang my self. Looking at it now, I cannot understand how I put up with it. I think that it was so great back when it was new because there wasn't anything that had done better. It did make some big steps to start the genre to get it going and I think EQ2 did a good job capitalizing on those changes.
I used to play Pac Man. But I don't see how any amount of changes/improvement would make me want to play any version now.
For EQ, I can easily see myself play EQ3 (with pre-paid time card, no CC ever again for SOE), if it has the proper adjustments/improvements. I don't have any hope or belief for the current devs team, but eh, maybe they could prove me wrong. It is just that after the bazillions expansions, EQ2 and Vanguard, I can see a clear thrend which they are trap in.
Hardcore gaming doesn't has to be done at the expanse of the casuals, and this is a point they are not getting. See, they are trap in a vision about either giving everything to the hardcores, or everything to the casuals...and that isn't the solution. The casuals, they want to hope to be the best at what they do, and this is a legitimate request. They don't have to be good at what they don't do however, which leave you plenty of room for hardcore players. I suggest casuals server and a new loot system (see my blog if you want), but I am by no mean the only person which can bring new ideas. I am sure there is a way to make sure that the best peoples at any activity, it is the peoples doing that activity, without giving them everything, or without splitting everything as I do (if you can't think, you can always work harder, that is my approach, it work, but it involves tons of work).
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
It's very simple. Many others have pondered this and have come up with the same reason....
EVERYONE falls in love with the first MMORPG they play. It's like driving your very first car. You will never, ever, never, forget the first car you drive. Or like your first real kiss, or your first... you get the idea LOL!!!
I experienced it 2 1/2 times. In Runescape (technically my first mmorpg. But it's nothing compared to a "real" mmorpg, which I would later find.) In AC - my first "real" mmorpg.
When I first played EQ, I KNEW I would have fetl the exact same as you did - IF EQ had been my first mmorpg. But AC was. I still had fun in EQ. BTW, no other mmorpg, even now, has anything that comes close to the Tree Elf city in EQ.
When I first played EvE, it was my first full fledged space mmorpg. And I did feel that same feeling. I sat there staring at the screen the first time I logged in with my space ship. I was breathless. I felt like I was really in space.
Everyone feels this way about the first mmorpg they play... no matter if it's UO, AC, EQ, EvE, cSWG, or even WoW.
but but...
I said already that I tried UO first, then EQ..
I fell in love with EQ and uninstalled UO....
Others here have also stated similar experiences, so I am thinking that your conclusion isnt the only one.
EQ opened the doors off MMO gaming, for WoW to come along after and blow them right off, when other games didnt, so obviously there was something special about it. It must have had gotten something right for so many others to copy it?
My opinion in what that 'something' was?
A combination of community and challenge level that demmanded and supported co-operative play that, in turn, created a living world where you was judged on your reputation and skill.
Whenever I got sick of the game itself, it was my guild that bought me back.
Solo focused easy mode 'MMO'RPGs will never, imo, deliver the same experience, but those who cannot or will not invest time and effort into a community won't ever admit this because it dosent benefit them to do so. All they want is ever more drop in casual lite distractions they can play for 30mins after gettin home from work/ school before their spouse/ mum tells them to get the hell back to what they should be doing.
Like I have said before, devs today are killing the goose that lays the golden eggs for a quick dinner.
I used to play Pac Man. But I don't see how any amount of changes/improvement would make me want to play any version now.
I downloaded Defender and Joust the other day and am loving them!
Classic gameplay ftw
I also think a good amount of players came from MUDs. I remember playing my favorite (Medievia) and had an absolute blast. The freedom you had in that game was tremendous. Granted, it was all ANSI text based, but you pretty much could travel where ever you wanted. Whether or not that was wise was another question entirely. If your corpse was in a "bad" spot... ugh!
When EQ came out, I remember how fun that was. Finally, some graphics to the game genre I enjoyed. It did a decent enough job I thought.
Then the next evolution with WoW. Very cookie cutter based. Doing a quest was a matter of going to a website, looking up the coords, and completed. Also, the players were vastly different. Name calling, animosity, just not fun any longer. Nothing in the way of diverse classes/professions. A shaman was a shaman was a shaman. Meh.
One compelling point you bring up... because computers and ISP connectivity are more readily available today - the impact of that on MMORPGs. I can see your point here. Younger, perhaps less mature kids now have access to social situations in which they simply do not know how to act. Depending on how correct this theory is... leads me to wonder if this less mature attitude will simply become MORE prevalent in the time to come.
I miss the days of old, that original "free" feeling. For me, I miss my MUD days the most.
"...and with that cryptic comment, I'm off to bed!"