Oh and if you can't find it. Then ur comment about "gimped healers" says it all But...Most nerfs are hidden in the patch notes. You would have learned that much if your playing hybrid in WoW with current devs. And again - good players do some research about their class. I did not quit cause of what 2.4 patchnotes said. I did because of what 2.4 patchnotes did not say.
Just tell me how were you nerfed? One of my best in-game friends is a holy paladin, and he hasn't made a single complaint. So I'm guessing your making a mountain out of a molehill or you really weren't nerfed.
I just don't understand how you could possibly say that a Holy Specced paladin is a gimped healer. Your mana lasts for like, ever.
Maybe you're geared for PvP? You need PvE gear for PvE instances beyond Karazhan.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Im full geared tier 6 holy paladin and was farming Illidan. Dunno about your friend tho. But again - do your own research and you might stumble upon something.
That part was not the main factor in my point tho. My point is that I played the RPG role of the game. I desided to let the game deside what I would be doing. i did that - just to find out that the game then punished me for the next 9 months by doing so. It was not me that put full extra holy paladin set into Karazhan... But - point was I made my own disission on what I desided to do based on what the game wanted me to do with drops and need. JUst... to find out few months l8ter that what needed before in that class was now beeing forced in diffrent ways to spec diffrently. NOT by making their other roles any better (retri palas were told 2.3 would solve their problem - Now its moved to WOTLK) but in playn nerfing one healing spec and then boosting other healing specs.
But again. Story of my character is just example of how a 3 year old story of how I wanted to play as a MMORPG players - was in the end changed ... not base how I played the game showing loyalty and farming illidan. It were FORCED changes.
And sorry - u simply dont force me and still expect me to pay for that kinda game.
A slight intervention, but I didn't really want this thread to degrade into a "who got nerfed" thread. I'd like to see some other points of view about the current path Blizzard is taking.
More often than not, Blizzard manages to put out a good product and keep it pleasant. Diablo II is a prime example of this. Granted it only had one expansion, but the game managed to still be fun afterwards. Burning Crusade was a pitiful excuse for an expansion, seeing as how an amount of content equal to what was included was released BEFOREHAND (Silithus anyone? How about most of the end game content?). Wrath of the Lich King looks like it's shaping up to be a bit more promising, but even then, the content is going to be implemented incorrectly.
I'm hoping that Blizzard shapes up and fixes the mess that has become WoW. I enjoy holding them to the same standards I hold companies such as Retro Studios, Bethesda, and Silicon Knights.
Or perhaps Activision is beginning to put the "Guitar Hero" formula to WoW...April Fool's, anyone?
Im full geared tier 6 holy paladin and was farming Illidan. Dunno about your friend tho. But again - do your own research and you might stumble upon something. That part was not the main factor in my point tho. My point is that I played the RPG role of the game. I desided to let the game deside what I would be doing. i did that - just to find out that the game then punished me for the next 9 months by doing so. It was not me that put full extra holy paladin set into Karazhan... But - point was I made my own disission on what I desided to do based on what the game wanted me to do with drops and need. JUst... to find out few months l8ter that what needed before in that class was now beeing forced in diffrent ways to spec diffrently. NOT by making their other roles any better (retri palas were told 2.3 would solve their problem - Now its moved to WOTLK) but in playn nerfing one healing spec and then boosting other healing specs. But again. Story of my character is just example of how a 3 year old story of how I wanted to play as a MMORPG players - was in the end changed ... not base how I played the game showing loyalty and farming illidan. It were FORCED changes. And sorry - u simply dont force me and still expect me to pay for that kinda game.
I call BS. You won't tell me how you've been "nerfed" because it's probably so trivial and insignificant we'll all laugh at you, and you tell me to "do my research". Well you said you were nerfed in patch 2.4, and I did my research and called out your BS and listed the patch notes, now you're saying its a stealth nerf, so either tell us how holy paladins have become nerfed to become "gimped healers", or walk away from this argument while you're only so far behind.
You claim 'you allowed the game to decide how you respec', what the hell does that mean? You choose the spec you enjoy, not the spec you just happen to find the most gear for.
Sounds like you've only nerfed yourself. L2P issue I think, more than anything.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
I call BS. You won't tell me how you've been "nerfed" because it's probably so trivial and insignificant we'll all laugh at you, and you tell me to "do my research". Well you said you were nerfed in patch 2.4, and I did my research and called out your BS and listed the patch notes, now you're saying its a stealth nerf, so either tell us how holy paladins have become nerfed to become "gimped healers", or walk away from this argument while you're only so far behind. You claim 'you allowed the game to decide how you respec', what the hell does that mean? You choose the spec you enjoy, not the spec you just happen to find the most gear for. Sounds like you've only nerfed yourself. L2P issue I think, more than anything.
Again - U assuming things and calling ppl names based on that. And again - I base that on the fact that instead of doing some real research yourself then you deside to make a call knowing absolutly nothing. Call it BS if you like. It doesn't make you right.
Secondly - everything would be trivial and insignificant to you. Remember - it was you that said holy paladins are not gimped
A slight intervention, but I didn't really want this thread to degrade into a "who got nerfed" thread. I'd like to see some other points of view about the current path Blizzard is taking. More often than not, Blizzard manages to put out a good product and keep it pleasant. Diablo II is a prime example of this. Granted it only had one expansion, but the game managed to still be fun afterwards. Burning Crusade was a pitiful excuse for an expansion, seeing as how an amount of content equal to what was included was released BEFOREHAND (Silithus anyone? How about most of the end game content?). Wrath of the Lich King looks like it's shaping up to be a bit more promising, but even then, the content is going to be implemented incorrectly. I'm hoping that Blizzard shapes up and fixes the mess that has become WoW. I enjoy holding them to the same standards I hold companies such as Retro Studios, Bethesda, and Silicon Knights. Or perhaps Activision is beginning to put the "Guitar Hero" formula to WoW...April Fool's, anyone?
Blizzard have stated they want to go back to vanilla WoW in WOTLK. Making epic things epic again. But u know what... With current short term fanbase the game will crumble in matter of months doing that. Lets not forget that Blizzard actually tried to tone the item stat inflation in TBC. It ended up as big mistake since Tier 5 items were not really an improvemnt to tier 4. So majority of ppl didnt bother with that content until Tier 5 items stats were changed - making the whole of MH/BT to easy compared to items lvl. THen the hardcore guilds finished the whole instances in matter of weeks and had to wait for months till next challenge.
WoW can not go back to semi hardcore game now - simply because then all the casual nubs - including some of those posting here - knowing little or nothing about the game would start whining not getting free epics items without raising their finger. And its to l8t now to think that the longterm RPG players still have faith in Current devs. Even the most loyal are watching what warhammer and AOC are doing.
TBH wasn't all bad - it created few very good solutions on the MMO genre problems like the fight agains goldsellers. But that problem hasn't been solved really - It is just delayd by pumping more and more gold to players doing daily quests and at the same time very little gold going out again. Its all short term solutions that were not thought through longterm. BUt overall TBC made some fundimental mistakes. None bigger than connecting PVP and PVE abilites to a stage where no class or spec can be changed without it having major effect on everyting. But the strange thing is - some specs are good in all content of the game - while other specs are very poor in it all. And those issues have not been fixed over the past 10 months of TBC.
There is a famous quote from Kalgan "lets not go crazy" That has been the case with some classes and specs ingame (like the minor changes in 2.4 and the fact most changes where withdrawn when classes like warlocks and druids went beserk). But... that "lets not go crazy" also called for paladins getting extra cd on blessing of freedom, new cd on blessing of sacrifice - not to mention a huntersized mark on the persons head who got bopped. Oh - how greatly that mark suited that developer DPS warrior in PVP....
Yes - that is how this game is developed. And then you think that there are classes and specs that are not even played by any of the devs. So what do they care if some spec isn't viable anywhere. Again - more info coming about the devs in seperate topic soon.
You are getting caught up in the "Blizzard hates <insert my class here>" sentiment from the class boards and taking everything you read there as fact. You even believe that holy paladins are 'gimped healers', just because some people on the forums are screaming that the sky is falling down.
You have let yourself get caught up in the hype. You are not a gimped healer, if anyone in WoW denies a raid spot or a group spot to a holy paladin because they think they are 'gimped', they need to learn to play. It's as simple as that.
You have not been nerfed. I've done my research, and you have not. So you either come out and say what as made you 'gimped', (your words), or you accept that you're just wrong on this matter entirely.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
You are getting caught up in the "Blizzard hates <insert my class here>" sentiment from the class boards and taking everything you read there as fact. You even believe that holy paladins are 'gimped healers', just because some people on the forums are screaming that the sky is falling down. You have let yourself get caught up in the hype. You are not a gimped healer, if anyone in WoW denies a raid spot or a group spot to a holy paladin because they think they are 'gimped', they need to learn to play. It's as simple as that. You have not been nerfed. I've done my research, and you have not. So you either come out and say what as made you 'gimped', (your words), or you accept that you're just wrong on this matter entirely.
Well - lets see. Ask a pala healer to heal u through heroic MrT I did it - but then with full tier 6 u kinda expect that and didn't need to go there for anything. Ask a holy fresh from Karashan maybe ?
And lets see 8 months into WOTLK - then u understand why I picked this time to quit.
Call me a bad player after 3 years as holy and finished all raiding content in the game. Thats your opinion. My opinion is that good players dont play gimped classes. And the good players also see when their class become gimped. How many OOMkins are in game btw? Not that Im like u assuming all Oomkins are bad tho. What I do know is that you have very limited understanding on what MMOs are about.
But to the point - The end is in sight. Not tomorrow - not in next few months. But it will come. Till now I have been moving to new MMOs just on the right time to enjoy playing that genre. And for me this is the perfect time to do so.
You are getting caught up in the "Blizzard hates <insert my class here>" sentiment from the class boards and taking everything you read there as fact. You even believe that holy paladins are 'gimped healers', just because some people on the forums are screaming that the sky is falling down. You have let yourself get caught up in the hype. You are not a gimped healer, if anyone in WoW denies a raid spot or a group spot to a holy paladin because they think they are 'gimped', they need to learn to play. It's as simple as that. You have not been nerfed. I've done my research, and you have not. So you either come out and say what as made you 'gimped', (your words), or you accept that you're just wrong on this matter entirely.
Well - lets see. Ask a pala healer to heal u through heroic MrT I did it - but then with full tier 6 u kinda expect that and didn't need to go there for anything. Ask a holy fresh from Karashan maybe ?
And lets see 8 months into WOTLK - then u understand why I picked this time to quit.
Call me a bad player after 3 years as holy and finished all raiding content in the game. Thats your opinion. My opinion is that good players dont play gimped classes. How many OOMkins are in game btw? Not that Im like u assuming all Oomkins are bad tho.
But to the point - The end is in sight. Not tomorrow - not in next few months. But it will come. Till now I have been moving to new MMOs just on the right time to enjoy playing that genre. And for me this is the perfect time to do so.
Wait a minute, if a player got good by playing a gimped class, how is it possible that he would not play the gimped class? I think Holy Pallies are fine, I saw them getting snatched up for Heroics and Raids all the time (okay, they might take a backseat to a priest sometimes, but that doesn't make them gimped.)
Edit: When you think about it, gimped sounds funny.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
You are getting caught up in the "Blizzard hates <insert my class here>" sentiment from the class boards and taking everything you read there as fact. You even believe that holy paladins are 'gimped healers', just because some people on the forums are screaming that the sky is falling down. You have let yourself get caught up in the hype. You are not a gimped healer, if anyone in WoW denies a raid spot or a group spot to a holy paladin because they think they are 'gimped', they need to learn to play. It's as simple as that. You have not been nerfed. I've done my research, and you have not. So you either come out and say what as made you 'gimped', (your words), or you accept that you're just wrong on this matter entirely.
Well - lets see. Ask a pala healer to heal u through heroic MrT I did it - but then with full tier 6 u kinda expect that and didn't need to go there for anything. Ask a holy fresh from Karashan maybe ?
And lets see 8 months into WOTLK - then u understand why I picked this time to quit.
Call me a bad player after 3 years as holy and finished all raiding content in the game. Thats your opinion. My opinion is that good players dont play gimped classes. And the good players also see when their class become gimped. How many OOMkins are in game btw? Not that Im like u assuming all Oomkins are bad tho. What I do know is that you have very limited understanding on what MMOs are about.
But to the point - The end is in sight. Not tomorrow - not in next few months. But it will come. Till now I have been moving to new MMOs just on the right time to enjoy playing that genre. And for me this is the perfect time to do so.
MGT is harder than previous 5 man instances. The normal instance is equivalent to heroic difficulty, and the Heroic instance is aim toward people who have been farming the previous heroics for ages and complaining that it's too easy.
Simply being in tier 6 gear doesn't guarrantee success. It's a difficult instance to heal in for any class, especially if everyone isn't on their tooes.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
WOW will die someday. I somehow have the feeling it will be the release of WAR! :P http://wow-vs-war.com/
WAR will not kill wow. we will need WOW to keep all the morons out so people can enjoy WAR. but WOW has it's strong point it is fun to play with friends and it has come good ideas but the pve and pvp stuff merging is crap that needs to go. and has far as pvp goes bring back the ranks and tone done the honor point on pvp gear,. And raids are people care about now days it used to be about u and friends having fun while doing high lvl stuff. in the end WAR will take a good part of wow's hardcore mmo fans.
PS. DONT EDIT MY POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! oh i will just fix them SO HA!
Comments
oh - u playing paladin ?
Do some research and give me 3 facts in the last 4 patches where holy paladins were nerfed.
And while ur at it read these posts
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=5285246152&sid=1
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=5640665137&sid=1
Oh and if you can't find it. Then ur comment about "gimped healers" says it all
But...Most nerfs are hidden in the patch notes. You would have learned that much if your playing hybrid in WoW with current devs. And again - good players do some research about their class. I did not quit cause of what 2.4 patchnotes said. I did because of what 2.4 patchnotes did not say.
Just tell me how were you nerfed? One of my best in-game friends is a holy paladin, and he hasn't made a single complaint. So I'm guessing your making a mountain out of a molehill or you really weren't nerfed.
I just don't understand how you could possibly say that a Holy Specced paladin is a gimped healer. Your mana lasts for like, ever.
Maybe you're geared for PvP? You need PvE gear for PvE instances beyond Karazhan.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Im full geared tier 6 holy paladin and was farming Illidan. Dunno about your friend tho. But again - do your own research and you might stumble upon something.
That part was not the main factor in my point tho. My point is that I played the RPG role of the game. I desided to let the game deside what I would be doing. i did that - just to find out that the game then punished me for the next 9 months by doing so. It was not me that put full extra holy paladin set into Karazhan... But - point was I made my own disission on what I desided to do based on what the game wanted me to do with drops and need. JUst... to find out few months l8ter that what needed before in that class was now beeing forced in diffrent ways to spec diffrently. NOT by making their other roles any better (retri palas were told 2.3 would solve their problem - Now its moved to WOTLK) but in playn nerfing one healing spec and then boosting other healing specs.
But again. Story of my character is just example of how a 3 year old story of how I wanted to play as a MMORPG players - was in the end changed ... not base how I played the game showing loyalty and farming illidan. It were FORCED changes.
And sorry - u simply dont force me and still expect me to pay for that kinda game.
A slight intervention, but I didn't really want this thread to degrade into a "who got nerfed" thread. I'd like to see some other points of view about the current path Blizzard is taking.
More often than not, Blizzard manages to put out a good product and keep it pleasant. Diablo II is a prime example of this. Granted it only had one expansion, but the game managed to still be fun afterwards. Burning Crusade was a pitiful excuse for an expansion, seeing as how an amount of content equal to what was included was released BEFOREHAND (Silithus anyone? How about most of the end game content?). Wrath of the Lich King looks like it's shaping up to be a bit more promising, but even then, the content is going to be implemented incorrectly.
I'm hoping that Blizzard shapes up and fixes the mess that has become WoW. I enjoy holding them to the same standards I hold companies such as Retro Studios, Bethesda, and Silicon Knights.
Or perhaps Activision is beginning to put the "Guitar Hero" formula to WoW...April Fool's, anyone?
I call BS. You won't tell me how you've been "nerfed" because it's probably so trivial and insignificant we'll all laugh at you, and you tell me to "do my research". Well you said you were nerfed in patch 2.4, and I did my research and called out your BS and listed the patch notes, now you're saying its a stealth nerf, so either tell us how holy paladins have become nerfed to become "gimped healers", or walk away from this argument while you're only so far behind.
You claim 'you allowed the game to decide how you respec', what the hell does that mean? You choose the spec you enjoy, not the spec you just happen to find the most gear for.
Sounds like you've only nerfed yourself. L2P issue I think, more than anything.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Secondly - everything would be trivial and insignificant to you. Remember - it was you that said holy paladins are not gimped
Blizzard have stated they want to go back to vanilla WoW in WOTLK. Making epic things epic again. But u know what... With current short term fanbase the game will crumble in matter of months doing that. Lets not forget that Blizzard actually tried to tone the item stat inflation in TBC. It ended up as big mistake since Tier 5 items were not really an improvemnt to tier 4. So majority of ppl didnt bother with that content until Tier 5 items stats were changed - making the whole of MH/BT to easy compared to items lvl. THen the hardcore guilds finished the whole instances in matter of weeks and had to wait for months till next challenge.
WoW can not go back to semi hardcore game now - simply because then all the casual nubs - including some of those posting here - knowing little or nothing about the game would start whining not getting free epics items without raising their finger. And its to l8t now to think that the longterm RPG players still have faith in Current devs. Even the most loyal are watching what warhammer and AOC are doing.
TBH wasn't all bad - it created few very good solutions on the MMO genre problems like the fight agains goldsellers. But that problem hasn't been solved really - It is just delayd by pumping more and more gold to players doing daily quests and at the same time very little gold going out again. Its all short term solutions that were not thought through longterm. BUt overall TBC made some fundimental mistakes. None bigger than connecting PVP and PVE abilites to a stage where no class or spec can be changed without it having major effect on everyting. But the strange thing is - some specs are good in all content of the game - while other specs are very poor in it all. And those issues have not been fixed over the past 10 months of TBC.
There is a famous quote from Kalgan "lets not go crazy" That has been the case with some classes and specs ingame (like the minor changes in 2.4 and the fact most changes where withdrawn when classes like warlocks and druids went beserk). But... that "lets not go crazy" also called for paladins getting extra cd on blessing of freedom, new cd on blessing of sacrifice - not to mention a huntersized mark on the persons head who got bopped. Oh - how greatly that mark suited that developer DPS warrior in PVP....
Yes - that is how this game is developed. And then you think that there are classes and specs that are not even played by any of the devs. So what do they care if some spec isn't viable anywhere. Again - more info coming about the devs in seperate topic soon.
You are getting caught up in the "Blizzard hates <insert my class here>" sentiment from the class boards and taking everything you read there as fact. You even believe that holy paladins are 'gimped healers', just because some people on the forums are screaming that the sky is falling down.
You have let yourself get caught up in the hype. You are not a gimped healer, if anyone in WoW denies a raid spot or a group spot to a holy paladin because they think they are 'gimped', they need to learn to play. It's as simple as that.
You have not been nerfed. I've done my research, and you have not. So you either come out and say what as made you 'gimped', (your words), or you accept that you're just wrong on this matter entirely.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Well - lets see. Ask a pala healer to heal u through heroic MrT
I did it - but then with full tier 6 u kinda expect that and didn't need to go there for anything. Ask a holy fresh from Karashan maybe ?
And lets see 8 months into WOTLK - then u understand why I picked this time to quit.
Call me a bad player after 3 years as holy and finished all raiding content in the game. Thats your opinion. My opinion is that good players dont play gimped classes. And the good players also see when their class become gimped. How many OOMkins are in game btw? Not that Im like u assuming all Oomkins are bad tho. What I do know is that you have very limited understanding on what MMOs are about.
But to the point - The end is in sight. Not tomorrow - not in next few months. But it will come. Till now I have been moving to new MMOs just on the right time to enjoy playing that genre. And for me this is the perfect time to do so.
And lets see 8 months into WOTLK - then u understand why I picked this time to quit.
Call me a bad player after 3 years as holy and finished all raiding content in the game. Thats your opinion. My opinion is that good players dont play gimped classes. How many OOMkins are in game btw? Not that Im like u assuming all Oomkins are bad tho.
But to the point - The end is in sight. Not tomorrow - not in next few months. But it will come. Till now I have been moving to new MMOs just on the right time to enjoy playing that genre. And for me this is the perfect time to do so.
Wait a minute, if a player got good by playing a gimped class, how is it possible that he would not play the gimped class? I think Holy Pallies are fine, I saw them getting snatched up for Heroics and Raids all the time (okay, they might take a backseat to a priest sometimes, but that doesn't make them gimped.)
Edit: When you think about it, gimped sounds funny.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
Well - lets see. Ask a pala healer to heal u through heroic MrT
I did it - but then with full tier 6 u kinda expect that and didn't need to go there for anything. Ask a holy fresh from Karashan maybe ?
And lets see 8 months into WOTLK - then u understand why I picked this time to quit.
Call me a bad player after 3 years as holy and finished all raiding content in the game. Thats your opinion. My opinion is that good players dont play gimped classes. And the good players also see when their class become gimped. How many OOMkins are in game btw? Not that Im like u assuming all Oomkins are bad tho. What I do know is that you have very limited understanding on what MMOs are about.
But to the point - The end is in sight. Not tomorrow - not in next few months. But it will come. Till now I have been moving to new MMOs just on the right time to enjoy playing that genre. And for me this is the perfect time to do so.
MGT is harder than previous 5 man instances. The normal instance is equivalent to heroic difficulty, and the Heroic instance is aim toward people who have been farming the previous heroics for ages and complaining that it's too easy.
Simply being in tier 6 gear doesn't guarrantee success. It's a difficult instance to heal in for any class, especially if everyone isn't on their tooes.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
WAR will not kill wow. we will need WOW to keep all the morons out so people can enjoy WAR. but WOW has it's strong point it is fun to play with friends and it has come good ideas but the pve and pvp stuff merging is crap that needs to go. and has far as pvp goes bring back the ranks and tone done the honor point on pvp gear,. And raids are people care about now days it used to be about u and friends having fun while doing high lvl stuff. in the end WAR will take a good part of wow's hardcore mmo fans.
PS. DONT EDIT MY POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! oh i will just fix them SO HA!
<modedit>