When I did the trial of EVE, it wasn't exactly casual friendly. Now, granted, this was a few years ago, but this one incident drove me right out of the game and it's something incredibly stupid. Upon my initial login, I couldn't make my ship go... as in go anywhere, turn, accelerate, nothing. Seems like I wasn't the only one as there were a good 50-100 other ships just clustered in the same spot. /uninstall mm... now THAT was fun. Point: Both SWG and EVE have/had horribly introductions to gameplay, although I really expected to be able to fly a friggin ship just by randomly mashing buttons, but nope. Intuitive it was not.
Umm...to make your ship go all you need to do is point click in space or right click on an oject and select approach.
If you couldn't even figure that out, then you did yourself a service uninstalling eve. EVE takes an IQ more then 5 to play.
EVE is not WOW in space. You actually have to READ the tutor, not just skip through and figure it out on the fly. It is not like every other MMO.
EVE also totally reworked their tutor. It's all updated. You still need to READ the tutor. I repeat you actually need to READ the tutor.
Don't compair a broken mess to a great game like eve. SWG is trash.
Well, considering I had NO option of a tutorial in EVE (at least when I tried it), I imagined button mashing might work. It didn't. It wasn't intuitive though it may seem second nature to you. Your instructions seem simple enough and they are. /uninstall
I am one to actually read the whole manual before playing a game I buy. Yeah, call me crazy. But I wasn't about to go searching for something that the game should have introduced me to... especially something core and integral to the entire game and especially in a trial.
It has nothing to do with intelligence. I was mildly interested so I did the trial. Couldn't get my ship to move (along with the 50-100 other people) and wasn't THAT interested to go searching for instructions. And there was NO fecking tutorial (at that time).
Ease of entry is a distinguishing factor and eve failed. At least SWG had a tutorial that let me shoot a gnort.
That is the difference between a subscriber and a lost subscriber. EVE had my attention enough to give it a glance, but no more than a glance. They lost a potential subscriber because I wasn't looking to learn about the game, just wanted a diversion and would have subscribed if it had been easier to get into.
That doesn't mean I don't enjoy a complex and deep game (which eve is and swg used to be).
Again, the point your small mind has missed is that the introductions to neither game were easy (or even there)... though both games have improved their introductions and tutorials.
When I did the trial of EVE, it wasn't exactly casual friendly. Now, granted, this was a few years ago, but this one incident drove me right out of the game and it's something incredibly stupid. Upon my initial login, I couldn't make my ship go... as in go anywhere, turn, accelerate, nothing. Seems like I wasn't the only one as there were a good 50-100 other ships just clustered in the same spot. /uninstall mm... now THAT was fun. Point: Both SWG and EVE have/had horribly introductions to gameplay, although I really expected to be able to fly a friggin ship just by randomly mashing buttons, but nope. Intuitive it was not.
Now I must admit I haven't played EVE, but I've heard a thing or two about it.
Perhaps someone that knows more than me can fill in, but don't you remain as an object (ship?) in game even after you log out, similar to houses, vendors, etc. in SWG?
How do you know those 50 - 100 other ships were stuck? Did you talk to them?
Originally posted by DingoBoi ... At least SWG had a tutorial that let me shoot a gnort.... That is the difference between a subscriber and a lost subscriber. EVE had my attention enough to give it a glance, but no more than a glance. They lost a potential subscriber because I wasn't looking to learn about the game...
Well I guess that about says it all doesn't it. Once again Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the target market of the NGE.
One of Pre-CUs more endearing qualities to me, and one thing I remember so vividly (that kept me playing, and paying), was the fact that there was always something to learn about SWG. It wasn't that the barrier to entry was high that scares off these 'casual gamers' (as I consider myself a casual gamer). It's that SOE couldn't tell the difference between a casual gamer (somebody who doesn't necessarily powergame through, but takes the time to savor an experience), and a leet speaking 'givitoomeenow' kid who didn't have the patience or intelligence to learn about the game one system at a time.
Eve online has surpassed SWG and EQ II in subscriptions. So there is no SOE game that carries what they used to be capable of despite the NGE. I think t he market is fed up with SOE's mier that has been laid upon the consumer. The numbers are stating the clear opinion of the consumer. Facts are just facts. Eve Online has gone above 200k subscribers. SOE games are under 200k subscribers. They need a classic server for SWG. I doubt Sony Japan will allow this to continue much longer. One good aspect of SWG NGE is the "Story teller" for role players. Nuff said.
Unlike other publishers, CCP openly announces their subs. They told us back in November when they passed 200K, and said they predicted 250K by summer. Looks like that is happening. They now project over 300K by the end of the year.
This would put EVE just behind LOTRO in subs, if not ahead of it.
The sad thing is, they will roll it out no matter what the public says. Even if they get an overwhelming amount of negative feedback prior to releasing this to public/live servers... they will still do it. This tells me that they do not listen to their customers. The dev's are driven by someone/something else, but it's apparently NOT the players. If they say that changes come as a direct result of player feedback, then they are killing the many for the good of the very few. Hopefully this will be one time that SOE actually listens to their customers and rolls this back or just doesn't launch it. ... I recall an update to XP that SOE launched for SWG sometime during the CU. That change p*ssed off a lot of people. SOE rolled the change back. Anyone else remember that?
They change what is easy to change in the vague region of where players have been making complaints whether the specific change they made bears any relation to the complaint or not. Then they go to their bosses and say; 'Look, I changed what the players were complaining about'. Their boss says: 'I see you have made a change in that controversial area. Here is a token for five free small lattes (with one latte of equal or more value) at Subway. Well done'.
it's people like blixtev that bring more and more people onto our side people who see that the best way that swg can go is to a rollback of the pre-cu or to be shutdown and do an swg 2 with a pre-cu system in place.
also more and more people are pulling this kind of crap in the gaming world. i like many of you am sick of it. blizzard forcing warcraft and it's fisherprice game play on us. old great titles being turned into plotless actionfests. microsoft forcing xbox live onto the world and telling us we want it. it's thanks to people like those at $OE that gaming is going downhill.
i also blame you fanbois and fanbots for it. here we are fighting to give gamers freedom and make the devs see that they need us more then we need them and you morons sit there like zombies and pay for this crap. if you pay for swg if you own a xbox if you are not fighting the good fight then you are no gamer. you are a fanboi moron who should have his pc taken away and be banned from playing anything.
i have had it with all of the fanbois devs and fanbots. i want swg to be shutdown or rollbacked to when it was good. quit telling $OE that you like this crap and start saying bring back pre-cu or get out of gaming for good.
Wow what an angry post...
We live now in the world of the casual gamer its time we hardned old timers have to get used to this fact the days of gaming being a "geek" pastime are truely over with grandma and grandpa playing the Wii for fun,truth is you either accept that fact or it you who'll have to move on,becuase devs will go where the money is (and i'm talking across the board gaming here) and care not a jot about thier past customers.
Yes, we live in the world of television. That means we should burn all books now.
Time to live in the now..ALL games cost a fortune to devolp nowadays,the times of bedroom coding are gone,so publishers want to see some return for thier investment,and usualy (not always) the simpler the game is the more copies it sells.
More and more we're seeing cross platform games exclusives are becoming rarer and rarer for this very reason and given the worlds current climate regarding money matters i can see its only going to get worse.
Who (talking about consoles here but its relevant) would have put money on the Wii being such a massive success? i know i wouldnt thats for sure,that console (alongside the DS) has opened a whole new market for publishers to have a go at,now sooner or later that market will move on from consoles and look to the pc for thier gaming and may be interested in an MMO and the dev and publishers know this,they can see it coming and the money it'll bring them if they have a product like WOW thats as easy as pie and more importantly works as well as that game.
So when you look at it it IS the best way to recoup thier investment (granted any game can go tits up but thats by the by)
Well said.
As someone that has been gaming for well a long damn time let me say this much, yes Games are getting dumbed down. Look at games like Rainbow 6 or Command and Conquer! Rainbow 6:Vegas plays much more like an action movie or something like 24 or The Unit. Granted it's not like it was back in the 90's with the first Rainbow 6 or Rouge Spear, but ya know what? It's fun! Same go's with C&C, the new C&C titles are much faster and more about rushing, where the older C&C Games played a bit slower.
Things get dumbed down, why? So more people can play it and enjoy it. Granted gone are the days of games like X-Com or Master of Orion. Those games are still around, just well more "Nitche" now then anything...
That is not a bad thing really, now you will have a Developer that does aim to please those older fans and maybe make a few new ones as well. Still get used to more games coming out on systems like the Xbox. Get used to more titles being made with "everybody" in mind rather then a few "hardcore" people! And get used to the fact that as much as many of you hate to look at it, Gaming as a whole has changed. The old days are gone, over and done with.
See and this is something I have learned in my life, you cannot live in the past. And Gaming must move forward! Yes some games can and will go after the hardcore people, however other's are going to try and be open for anyone and everyone.
In the case of SWG, or really any MMO. Your going to get things that you won't like and your going to get things forced on you. Believe me EA did alot of that with UO, I've heard people say that with games like WoW. It's nothing new in gaming or with MMO's really...
Wrong, you're committing the classic mistake of all easily satisfied people - solipsism.
Simply because you feel or judge or believe something to be a positive does not make it the standard which excludes all others items in that area. Just because, for example, you like shovelling french fries into your face doesn't mean that people who like salade nicoise are wrong or even that the people who like salade nicoise are so small in number that their opinions are culturally, economically or socially unimportant besides your own.
Just because you like dumb things, by extension, does not mean other people have to love those dumb things too.
Eve is doing exactly what SOE/LA should have done with SWG. They are adding to the game and improving it slowly over time. They are offering people a quality game and making it better by the day. Eve shows us that a sandbox can work and work well if you have a good development team. The subscriptions have been on the rise for sometime now and when Eve offers ground-based toons this year it will only make the subs jump even more. It is highly probable that EVE could hit 500,000 subscribers or even more if they keep adding. 500,000 X $15 = $7.5 million/month or $90 million/year.
Pretty good.
Eactly - they're making it 'Richer' not 'Simpler'. Good luck to them.
Well, considering I had NO option of a tutorial in EVE (at least when I tried it), I imagined button mashing might work. It didn't. It wasn't intuitive though it may seem second nature to you. Your instructions seem simple enough and they are. /uninstall I am one to actually read the whole manual before playing a game I buy. Yeah, call me crazy. But I wasn't about to go searching for something that the game should have introduced me to... especially something core and integral to the entire game and especially in a trial. It has nothing to do with intelligence. I was mildly interested so I did the trial. Couldn't get my ship to move (along with the 50-100 other people) and wasn't THAT interested to go searching for instructions. And there was NO fecking tutorial (at that time). Ease of entry is a distinguishing factor and eve failed. At least SWG had a tutorial that let me shoot a gnort. That is the difference between a subscriber and a lost subscriber. EVE had my attention enough to give it a glance, but no more than a glance. They lost a potential subscriber because I wasn't looking to learn about the game, just wanted a diversion and would have subscribed if it had been easier to get into. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy a complex and deep game (which eve is and swg used to be). Again, the point your small mind has missed is that the introductions to neither game were easy (or even there)... though both games have improved their introductions and tutorials. PS: suck one
EVE didn't fail. It has ALWAYS had a tutor. You failed the fact there's a tutor button always right in front of your face on screen.
You go back on your own point of saying you would get into eve if it was "easier to get into" but yet state you enjoy a complex deep game?
How the hell can a game be easy but complex and deep? EVE takes more then 5 min to learn. You need to read the tutor not just skip through screens and launch your ship.
The fact you couldn't even find the tutor kinda baffles me because the tutor pops up as you enter game.
In any case the tutor system is totally revamped. EVE wasn't and isn't a easy button mashing game anyone could just jump in, but if you had any patience and the real desire for a complex deep game you would not have given up so easy. You gave it the Homer Simpson approach then cry about it.
Did you even ask anyone how to find the tutor if you couldn't figure it out yourself? There are always plenty players more then willing to help.
I'm glad EVE is complex. One of the few dev teams with the balls to not follow everyone else. To play EVE you must first forget other MMO's. You must approach EVE without a WOW mindset.
A "complex, deep game" like EVE, frankly, doesn't need players unwilling to invest time into it to learn how to play. It's not for you if this is what you need.
Fortunately CCP hasn't made the mistake SOE did, which was to continually dumb the game down to satisfy those who didn't want to spend effort to, yes, gasp! DO SOME READING. The wisdom of that can't really even be disputed at this point, reading the SOE forums for 5 minutes and seeing all the "my server is dead" threads.
If you want your hand held from level 1 through 70, play WOW.
If you want to actually get to learn and discover things, play EVE.
Get into a corp and learn. There are plenty of them out there that exist solely to train new players (ie: a feeder system to bring new players along to gain the skills they need for 0.0). Trust me, help is available aplenty in game, from players, not necessarily the game.
"If I had a penny for everytime a frustrated fanboi hits the report button, I could end world hunger."
Comments
Umm...to make your ship go all you need to do is point click in space or right click on an oject and select approach.
If you couldn't even figure that out, then you did yourself a service uninstalling eve. EVE takes an IQ more then 5 to play.
EVE is not WOW in space. You actually have to READ the tutor, not just skip through and figure it out on the fly. It is not like every other MMO.
EVE also totally reworked their tutor. It's all updated. You still need to READ the tutor. I repeat you actually need to READ the tutor.
Don't compair a broken mess to a great game like eve. SWG is trash.
Anyone still paying SOE to play SWG is a fool.
SHOHADAKU
Well, considering I had NO option of a tutorial in EVE (at least when I tried it), I imagined button mashing might work. It didn't. It wasn't intuitive though it may seem second nature to you. Your instructions seem simple enough and they are. /uninstall
I am one to actually read the whole manual before playing a game I buy. Yeah, call me crazy. But I wasn't about to go searching for something that the game should have introduced me to... especially something core and integral to the entire game and especially in a trial.
It has nothing to do with intelligence. I was mildly interested so I did the trial. Couldn't get my ship to move (along with the 50-100 other people) and wasn't THAT interested to go searching for instructions. And there was NO fecking tutorial (at that time).
Ease of entry is a distinguishing factor and eve failed. At least SWG had a tutorial that let me shoot a gnort.
That is the difference between a subscriber and a lost subscriber. EVE had my attention enough to give it a glance, but no more than a glance. They lost a potential subscriber because I wasn't looking to learn about the game, just wanted a diversion and would have subscribed if it had been easier to get into.
That doesn't mean I don't enjoy a complex and deep game (which eve is and swg used to be).
Again, the point your small mind has missed is that the introductions to neither game were easy (or even there)... though both games have improved their introductions and tutorials.
PS: suck one
Now I must admit I haven't played EVE, but I've heard a thing or two about it.
Perhaps someone that knows more than me can fill in, but don't you remain as an object (ship?) in game even after you log out, similar to houses, vendors, etc. in SWG?
How do you know those 50 - 100 other ships were stuck? Did you talk to them?
Well I guess that about says it all doesn't it. Once again Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the target market of the NGE.
One of Pre-CUs more endearing qualities to me, and one thing I remember so vividly (that kept me playing, and paying), was the fact that there was always something to learn about SWG. It wasn't that the barrier to entry was high that scares off these 'casual gamers' (as I consider myself a casual gamer). It's that SOE couldn't tell the difference between a casual gamer (somebody who doesn't necessarily powergame through, but takes the time to savor an experience), and a leet speaking 'givitoomeenow' kid who didn't have the patience or intelligence to learn about the game one system at a time.
Eve online has surpassed SWG and EQ II in subscriptions. So there is no SOE game that carries what they used to be capable of despite the NGE. I think t he market is fed up with SOE's mier that has been laid upon the consumer. The numbers are stating the clear opinion of the consumer. Facts are just facts. Eve Online has gone above 200k subscribers. SOE games are under 200k subscribers. They need a classic server for SWG. I doubt Sony Japan will allow this to continue much longer. One good aspect of SWG NGE is the "Story teller" for role players. Nuff said.
sources:
1
2
EVE currently has 236K subs...
Which is tens of thousands more than EQ2...
And about 220K more than the NGE.
Unlike other publishers, CCP openly announces their subs. They told us back in November when they passed 200K, and said they predicted 250K by summer. Looks like that is happening. They now project over 300K by the end of the year.
This would put EVE just behind LOTRO in subs, if not ahead of it.
I found EVE just baffling so i uninstalled it and wont being going back.
That said its just not my type of game tbh.
Good...
EVE doesn't WANT players unwilling to read, unwilling to figure it out, and unwilling to risk.
They change what is easy to change in the vague region of where players have been making complaints whether the specific change they made bears any relation to the complaint or not. Then they go to their bosses and say; 'Look, I changed what the players were complaining about'. Their boss says: 'I see you have made a change in that controversial area. Here is a token for five free small lattes (with one latte of equal or more value) at Subway. Well done'.
also more and more people are pulling this kind of crap in the gaming world. i like many of you am sick of it. blizzard forcing warcraft and it's fisherprice game play on us. old great titles being turned into plotless actionfests. microsoft forcing xbox live onto the world and telling us we want it. it's thanks to people like those at $OE that gaming is going downhill.
i also blame you fanbois and fanbots for it. here we are fighting to give gamers freedom and make the devs see that they need us more then we need them and you morons sit there like zombies and pay for this crap. if you pay for swg if you own a xbox if you are not fighting the good fight then you are no gamer. you are a fanboi moron who should have his pc taken away and be banned from playing anything.
i have had it with all of the fanbois devs and fanbots. i want swg to be shutdown or rollbacked to when it was good. quit telling $OE that you like this crap and start saying bring back pre-cu or get out of gaming for good.
Wow what an angry post...We live now in the world of the casual gamer its time we hardned old timers have to get used to this fact the days of gaming being a "geek" pastime are truely over with grandma and grandpa playing the Wii for fun,truth is you either accept that fact or it you who'll have to move on,becuase devs will go where the money is (and i'm talking across the board gaming here) and care not a jot about thier past customers.
Yes, we live in the world of television. That means we should burn all books now.You meretricious buboe.
Well said.As someone that has been gaming for well a long damn time let me say this much, yes Games are getting dumbed down. Look at games like Rainbow 6 or Command and Conquer! Rainbow 6:Vegas plays much more like an action movie or something like 24 or The Unit. Granted it's not like it was back in the 90's with the first Rainbow 6 or Rouge Spear, but ya know what? It's fun! Same go's with C&C, the new C&C titles are much faster and more about rushing, where the older C&C Games played a bit slower.
Things get dumbed down, why? So more people can play it and enjoy it. Granted gone are the days of games like X-Com or Master of Orion. Those games are still around, just well more "Nitche" now then anything...
That is not a bad thing really, now you will have a Developer that does aim to please those older fans and maybe make a few new ones as well. Still get used to more games coming out on systems like the Xbox. Get used to more titles being made with "everybody" in mind rather then a few "hardcore" people! And get used to the fact that as much as many of you hate to look at it, Gaming as a whole has changed. The old days are gone, over and done with.
See and this is something I have learned in my life, you cannot live in the past. And Gaming must move forward! Yes some games can and will go after the hardcore people, however other's are going to try and be open for anyone and everyone.
In the case of SWG, or really any MMO. Your going to get things that you won't like and your going to get things forced on you. Believe me EA did alot of that with UO, I've heard people say that with games like WoW. It's nothing new in gaming or with MMO's really...
Wrong, you're committing the classic mistake of all easily satisfied people - solipsism.
Simply because you feel or judge or believe something to be a positive does not make it the standard which excludes all others items in that area. Just because, for example, you like shovelling french fries into your face doesn't mean that people who like salade nicoise are wrong or even that the people who like salade nicoise are so small in number that their opinions are culturally, economically or socially unimportant besides your own.
Just because you like dumb things, by extension, does not mean other people have to love those dumb things too.
Eactly - they're making it 'Richer' not 'Simpler'. Good luck to them.
EVE didn't fail. It has ALWAYS had a tutor. You failed the fact there's a tutor button always right in front of your face on screen.
You go back on your own point of saying you would get into eve if it was "easier to get into" but yet state you enjoy a complex deep game?
How the hell can a game be easy but complex and deep? EVE takes more then 5 min to learn. You need to read the tutor not just skip through screens and launch your ship.
The fact you couldn't even find the tutor kinda baffles me because the tutor pops up as you enter game.
In any case the tutor system is totally revamped. EVE wasn't and isn't a easy button mashing game anyone could just jump in, but if you had any patience and the real desire for a complex deep game you would not have given up so easy. You gave it the Homer Simpson approach then cry about it.
Did you even ask anyone how to find the tutor if you couldn't figure it out yourself? There are always plenty players more then willing to help.
I'm glad EVE is complex. One of the few dev teams with the balls to not follow everyone else. To play EVE you must first forget other MMO's. You must approach EVE without a WOW mindset.
SHOHADAKU
A "complex, deep game" like EVE, frankly, doesn't need players unwilling to invest time into it to learn how to play. It's not for you if this is what you need.
Fortunately CCP hasn't made the mistake SOE did, which was to continually dumb the game down to satisfy those who didn't want to spend effort to, yes, gasp! DO SOME READING. The wisdom of that can't really even be disputed at this point, reading the SOE forums for 5 minutes and seeing all the "my server is dead" threads.
If you want your hand held from level 1 through 70, play WOW.
If you want to actually get to learn and discover things, play EVE.
Get into a corp and learn. There are plenty of them out there that exist solely to train new players (ie: a feeder system to bring new players along to gain the skills they need for 0.0). Trust me, help is available aplenty in game, from players, not necessarily the game.
"If I had a penny for everytime a frustrated fanboi hits the report button, I could end world hunger."