I am curious to know, what makes Mortal Online better then Darkfall? I'm not taking any side here, but clearly I feel the DFO features promise more, and as long as Mortal Online is in development there's always a chance it won't release. Why do people trust them instead of Aventurine?
Experience, reliability, dependability and the fact they are a publically traded company instead of Aventurine's long history of broken promises of betas, cancellations, GUILD beta tests, cancellations, etc. Aventurine's track record is a mine field of smoke, mirrors, and deception.
You do realize that you have no backing to any of those three claims.
You see Aventurine announced beta once and didn't go through on the beta applications. Then Rasorwax missed one. So if you add that up its 3 in all but is it as bad as AoC? nope.
A few missed beta dates must = smoke, mirrors, and deception. Describe to me what AoC is going through?
LOL so true. People are so quick to jump on Darkfall for a few missed beta dates that were NEVER set in stone in the first place. How many LAUNCH dates has AoC missed so far?
LOL so true. People are so quick to jump on Darkfall for a few missed beta dates that were NEVER set in stone in the first place. How many LAUNCH dates has AoC missed so far?
I lost count but I think this might be their 5th or 6th
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Friction2u
Originally posted by Ahiles
Originally posted by Friction2u
Originally posted by Shannia
Originally posted by Questionable
Originally posted by Shannia
Originally posted by downtoearth
well yea darkfall inst going to do a pre order either. dark and light did also dnl had a time limti on it darkfall wont
At least Dark & Light did something that I doubt we'll see DFO ever do. They actually launched the MMO. Sorry to say it, D&L may have been crooks, but at least they had the nads to show the world what they had, good or bad. Going forward, DFO should just go into a total media blackout until they actually have something. Dev journal #25 is a joke and waste of web space.
I love how you feel like your the next nostradamus. If you feel like the newest dev journal is crap then so be it but then again since you don't believe its coming out then I guess it doesnt really matter much what you think.
You are missing my entire point. Trust me, I 100% hate the D&L company because they are two-bit crooks. Make no mistake about it. What anyone with a 1/2 a brain can realize is that D&L did what DFO devs are afraid to do. If DFO was as good as they have claimed over and over, why are they holding back and relying on AI beta testing? They repeatedly said that on at least TWO occasions they were ready to launch the game. If that was the case, why are they holding back? With Mortal Online on the horizon, DFO needs to show their cards or risk being a vaporware footnote in the MMORPG history books.
I don't think they are holding back actually. According to Tasos, Darkfall is feature complete and is being beta tested by professional testers. Once it goes into 'playtesting' (notice he calls it playtesting and not open beta testing ) it will be pretty much the release version without huge ammounts of bugs and missing or unfinished content afflicted upon the poor beta testers (like AoC or WAR for instance).
By the sound of it the 'playtesting' phase could be close so everything will be 'put on the table' then.
Newsflash, all games are tested before release by professional testers, its nothing new. You think aoc and warhammer arnt being tested by mythics and funcoms own internal testers? The difference is both those games have had to be delayed because of the huge feedback they have recieved from beta testers they have invited into the closed beta. Without all those testers invited into the beta both games would have released last year and flopped hardcore.
That's because both games entered open beta in a far-from-finished state. What did the developers think would happen?
The difference with Darkfall is that the devs will push out a finished game for people to playtest. When was the last time any mmorpg did THAT?!?!
WTB: Public showing at a major show / convention. GC, E3, etc.
WTS: 2 fan only write ups for professional previews / hands on experience.
I have defended Darkfall for a long ass time now, but no more, seriously its ridiculous.
Look at the community it has at this point, I dont want to be a part of this game anymore even if it does come out, because honestly no company should put players and fans through this type of hell.
Everyone who is a Darkfall fan is fighting against not only every other mmo player but themselves too.
LOL so true. People are so quick to jump on Darkfall for a few missed beta dates that were NEVER set in stone in the first place. How many LAUNCH dates has AoC missed so far?
I lost count but I think this might be their 5th or 6th
I've lost count of how many times and in how many threads you DF fanboys have dragged AoC into. AoC is not DF, and DF is not AoC get the heck over it already.
The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.
well yea darkfall inst going to do a pre order either. dark and light did also dnl had a time limti on it darkfall wont
At least Dark & Light did something that I doubt we'll see DFO ever do. They actually launched the MMO. Sorry to say it, D&L may have been crooks, but at least they had the nads to show the world what they had, good or bad. Going forward, DFO should just go into a total media blackout until they actually have something. Dev journal #25 is a joke and waste of web space.
I love how you feel like your the next nostradamus. If you feel like the newest dev journal is crap then so be it but then again since you don't believe its coming out then I guess it doesnt really matter much what you think.
You are missing my entire point. Trust me, I 100% hate the D&L company because they are two-bit crooks. Make no mistake about it. What anyone with a 1/2 a brain can realize is that D&L did what DFO devs are afraid to do. If DFO was as good as they have claimed over and over, why are they holding back and relying on AI beta testing? They repeatedly said that on at least TWO occasions they were ready to launch the game. If that was the case, why are they holding back? With Mortal Online on the horizon, DFO needs to show their cards or risk being a vaporware footnote in the MMORPG history books.
I don't think they are holding back actually. According to Tasos, Darkfall is feature complete and is being beta tested by professional testers. Once it goes into 'playtesting' (notice he calls it playtesting and not open beta testing ) it will be pretty much the release version without huge ammounts of bugs and missing or unfinished content afflicted upon the poor beta testers (like AoC or WAR for instance).
By the sound of it the 'playtesting' phase could be close so everything will be 'put on the table' then.
Newsflash, all games are tested before release by professional testers, its nothing new. You think aoc and warhammer arnt being tested by mythics and funcoms own internal testers? The difference is both those games have had to be delayed because of the huge feedback they have recieved from beta testers they have invited into the closed beta. Without all those testers invited into the beta both games would have released last year and flopped hardcore.
That's because both games entered open beta in a far-from-finished state. What did the developers think would happen?
The difference with Darkfall is that the devs will push out a finished game for people to playtest. When was the last time any mmorpg did THAT?!?!
WTB: Public showing at a major show / convention. GC, E3, etc.
WTS: 2 fan only write ups for professional previews / hands on experience.
Case closed. Good post, Avery.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
WTB: Public showing at a major show / convention. GC, E3, etc.
WTS: 2 fan only write ups for professional previews / hands on experience.
Case closed. Good post, Avery.
But wait, by your logic, DnL had those things. Or doesn't DnL count when we're comparing it with AoC?
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Shadowoak
Originally posted by Shannia
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
WTB: Public showing at a major show / convention. GC, E3, etc.
WTS: 2 fan only write ups for professional previews / hands on experience.
Case closed. Good post, Avery.
But wait, by your logic, DnL had those things. Or doesn't DnL count when we're comparing it with AoC?
Im asking this of DFO. Nothing to do with AoC here mate.
I like the idea's, I like the premise, the setting.
Im tired of the same old topics coming up time after time with nothing new to add about the game.
Im tired of the monthly journal with minimal content.
If DFO isn't at E3 2008 in July or at GC 2008 in August. Then the game will really be on the backburner for me.
Its a great dream, but it remains just that, Adventurine needs to bring it to reality before many people move on. They need to be honest and put what they have out there for public viewing. Half of forumfall regulars are posting on a new games website already.
Im asking this of DFO. Nothing to do with AoC here mate.
I like the idea's, I like the premise, the setting. Im tired of the same old topics coming up time after time with nothing new to add about the game. Im tired of the monthly journal with minimal content. If DFO isn't at E3 2008 in July or at GC 2008 in August. Then the game will really be on the backburner for me. Its a great dream, but it remains just that, Adventurine needs to bring it to reality before many people move on. They need to be honest and put what they have out there for public viewing. Half of forumfall regulars are posting on a new games website already. You could spot DnL stink a mile off at E3.
Strange, but the only ones in a hurry is those with another title in their sig. I'm not in a hurry. I rather wait for a quality game than play a crappy one. The devs wants the customers to try (before buy) a fully featured game. Testing and the like they use professionals for (better results and less leaks). As for other skill based, sandboxgames, I welcome them.
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
Im asking this of DFO. Nothing to do with AoC here mate.
I like the idea's, I like the premise, the setting. Im tired of the same old topics coming up time after time with nothing new to add about the game. Im tired of the monthly journal with minimal content. If DFO isn't at E3 2008 in July or at GC 2008 in August. Then the game will really be on the backburner for me. Its a great dream, but it remains just that, Adventurine needs to bring it to reality before many people move on. They need to be honest and put what they have out there for public viewing. Half of forumfall regulars are posting on a new games website already. You could spot DnL stink a mile off at E3.
It's only my opinion, but I don't give a flying fuck about conventions and exhibitions. After I've seen games presented on them by lying, it won't make a difference, for me at least. If they want to do that, lie, they will, whatever the circumstance.
Or do you think AoC's demo (and I'm using AoC here as a comparative example) in E3 07 or 06 meant anything? Since they show off the game all nice and shiny, but we already know that even now there are features missing, or that there were a tonne of bugs, at least back then.
So, what does that mean about those exhibitions? That they're complete and utter bullshit.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Shadowoak
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
Im asking this of DFO. Nothing to do with AoC here mate.
I like the idea's, I like the premise, the setting. Im tired of the same old topics coming up time after time with nothing new to add about the game. Im tired of the monthly journal with minimal content. If DFO isn't at E3 2008 in July or at GC 2008 in August. Then the game will really be on the backburner for me. Its a great dream, but it remains just that, Adventurine needs to bring it to reality before many people move on. They need to be honest and put what they have out there for public viewing. Half of forumfall regulars are posting on a new games website already. You could spot DnL stink a mile off at E3.
It's only my opinion, but I don't give a flying fuck about conventions and exhibitions. After I've seen games presented on them by lieing, it won't make a difference, for me at least. If they want to do that, lie, they will, whatever the circumstance.
Or do you think AoC's demo (and I'm using AoC here as a comparative example) in E3 07 or 06 meant anything? Since they show off the game all nice and shiny, but we already know that even now there are features missing, or that there were a tonne of bugs, at least back then.
So, what does that mean about those exhibitions? That they're complete and utter bullshit.
Called passing the grade for proof, and extingishers rumours of vaporware.
If DF has got nothing to fear why not go mainstream?? Why not let the public play?
Doesn't matter about bugs or features, its a game in production, final judgement should be on a final product.
Called passing the grade for proof, and extingishers rumours of vaporware.
If DF has got nothing to fear why not go mainstream?? Why not let the public play? Doesn't matter about bugs or features, its a game in production, final judgement should be on a final product.
We welcome the "too good to be true" or the "Darkfall promises everything" ranting about Darkfall because we're in a position to know that we'll offer more than we promise. If we're going to be called anything right before we come out, "too good to be true" is about as good as it gets. We dismiss this kind of ranting though because it's almost never well-intentioned, and often created in a negative effort to boost other games, or they're stunts trying to use the active Darkfall community to fire up their own. It's easy to be cynical: Why should Darkfall work if nobody's ever tried this before? I would think however that this should be a compelling reason to root for it, as many of you do.
Either way, you'll be the final judge of this game by playing it and that's all that matters to us.
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
Called passing the grade for proof, and extingishers rumours of vaporware.
If DF has got nothing to fear why not go mainstream?? Why not let the public play? Doesn't matter about bugs or features, its a game in production, final judgement should be on a final product.
We welcome the "too good to be true" or the "Darkfall promises everything" ranting about Darkfall because we're in a position to know that we'll offer more than we promise. If we're going to be called anything right before we come out, "too good to be true" is about as good as it gets. We dismiss this kind of ranting though because it's almost never well-intentioned, and often created in a negative effort to boost other games, or they're stunts trying to use the active Darkfall community to fire up their own. It's easy to be cynical: Why should Darkfall work if nobody's ever tried this before? I would think however that this should be a compelling reason to root for it, as many of you do.
Either way, you'll be the final judge of this game by playing it and that's all that matters to us.
That is just words, it proves nothing and is just smoke and mirrors.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Called passing the grade for proof, and extingishers rumours of vaporware.
If DF has got nothing to fear why not go mainstream?? Why not let the public play? Doesn't matter about bugs or features, its a game in production, final judgement should be on a final product.
We welcome the "too good to be true" or the "Darkfall promises everything" ranting about Darkfall because we're in a position to know that we'll offer more than we promise. If we're going to be called anything right before we come out, "too good to be true" is about as good as it gets. We dismiss this kind of ranting though because it's almost never well-intentioned, and often created in a negative effort to boost other games, or they're stunts trying to use the active Darkfall community to fire up their own. It's easy to be cynical: Why should Darkfall work if nobody's ever tried this before? I would think however that this should be a compelling reason to root for it, as many of you do.
Either way, you'll be the final judge of this game by playing it and that's all that matters to us.
That is just words, it proves nothing and is just smoke and mirrors.
No offense Shannia, but you hate AoC and you hate Darkfall, so what exactly do you like?
WAR?
Cause normally there is a cut and dry group of people who like AoC and people who like Darkfall on these forums and your falling away from both those.
It's only my opinion, but I don't give a flying fuck about conventions and exhibitions. After I've seen games presented on them by lying, it won't make a difference, for me at least. If they want to do that, lie, they will, whatever the circumstance.
Or do you think AoC's demo (and I'm using AoC here as a comparative example) in E3 07 or 06 meant anything? Since they show off the game all nice and shiny, but we already know that even now there are features missing, or that there were a tonne of bugs, at least back then. Point is that there was a game to show off so the press could actually see a WORKING product therefore dispelling the Vaporware rumours. Everyone knows and accept such Demos have bugs and missing features because such games are NOT EVEN FINISHED the demo is just there to show the games current progress.
So, what does that mean about those exhibitions? That they're complete and utter bullshit.
Fact of the matter is that Darkfall has yet to show itself as being real to the world It has had no reviews or interviews with real Journalists who has actually been shown the current build. If they did then i think a lot of these rumours would just Evaporate like vapour.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Called passing the grade for proof, and extingishers rumours of vaporware.
If DF has got nothing to fear why not go mainstream?? Why not let the public play? Doesn't matter about bugs or features, its a game in production, final judgement should be on a final product.
We welcome the "too good to be true" or the "Darkfall promises everything" ranting about Darkfall because we're in a position to know that we'll offer more than we promise. If we're going to be called anything right before we come out, "too good to be true" is about as good as it gets. We dismiss this kind of ranting though because it's almost never well-intentioned, and often created in a negative effort to boost other games, or they're stunts trying to use the active Darkfall community to fire up their own. It's easy to be cynical: Why should Darkfall work if nobody's ever tried this before? I would think however that this should be a compelling reason to root for it, as many of you do.
Either way, you'll be the final judge of this game by playing it and that's all that matters to us.
Contradiction anyone?
Seriously though if they want to handle it that way, well, that's their choice. But then they, and the followers/fans of the game must live with what others say about the game. If they want to keep their product under tight wraps until they finally release it, not telling anyone anything of validity (and I don#t mean simple Dev-Journals and some screenshots/Videos), then fine, but as I said, you've got to live with people asking "Why?".
Because in the end, people have a right to ask that. They can ask because Aventurine chooses not to offer any kind of solid proof beside their word (and the word of Developers is, as we all know, worth nothing. Even DF Fans will agree with that, since they keep bashing AoC Dev's for breaking promises and spreading lies). So the DF Community as well as the Developers just have to accept that some people won't accept just their "word" for what they are promising and will continue asking themselves why they are being so secretive about the whole thing.
But the thing is, they don't have to prove anything yet. They're not selling anything, no pre orders or advertising, nothing.
Now, whenever they will ask me for my money, that will be the moment I'll ask them for proof.
As for the ppl that say "keep on waiting guys" in a sarcastic tone, I don't really understand their reasoning. At least we the fanbois/defenders etc, are waiting here for a reason, the haters/trolls etc, are waiting for a non-reason. Which do you think is worse?
From the latest dev report; We welcome the "too good to be true" or the "Darkfall promises everything" ranting about Darkfall because we're in a position to know that we'll offer more than we promise. If we're going to be called anything right before we come out, "too good to be true" is about as good as it gets. We dismiss this kind of ranting though because it's almost never well-intentioned, and often created in a negative effort to boost other games, or they're stunts trying to use the active Darkfall community to fire up their own. It's easy to be cynical: Why should Darkfall work if nobody's ever tried this before? I would think however that this should be a compelling reason to root for it, as many of you do. Either way, you'll be the final judge of this game by playing it and that's all that matters to us.
That is just words, it proves nothing and is just smoke and mirrors.
That is i belive Tasos point. You don't have to belive anything. The devs doesn't have to prove anything. When you try this game you will know (for free). Until then you root for it and/or do something else.
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
It's only my opinion, but I don't give a flying fuck about conventions and exhibitions. After I've seen games presented on them by lying, it won't make a difference, for me at least. If they want to do that, lie, they will, whatever the circumstance.
Or do you think AoC's demo (and I'm using AoC here as a comparative example) in E3 07 or 06 meant anything? Since they show off the game all nice and shiny, but we already know that even now there are features missing, or that there were a tonne of bugs, at least back then. Point is that there was a game to show off so the press could actually see a WORKING product therefore dispelling the Vaporware rumours. Everyone knows and accept such Demos have bugs and missing features because such games are NOT EVEN FINISHED the demo is just there to show the games current progress.
So, what does that mean about those exhibitions? That they're complete and utter bullshit.
Fact of the matter is that Darkfall has yet to show itself as being real to the world It has had no reviews or interviews with real Journalists who has actually been shown the current build. If they did then i think a lot of these rumours would just Evaporate like vapour.
Hehe, don't you think that most of the ppl here will stick to their convictions even if that happens, just because of the e-peen factor, apart for other shadier reasons.
If it will show up in a convention with anything less than the finished game, we will be having the same discussions here, based on the fact that they had 7 years to develope a working part of the game in order to "scam" ppl off their money.
Called passing the grade for proof, and extingishers rumours of vaporware.
If DF has got nothing to fear why not go mainstream?? Why not let the public play? Doesn't matter about bugs or features, its a game in production, final judgement should be on a final product.
We welcome the "too good to be true" or the "Darkfall promises everything" ranting about Darkfall because we're in a position to know that we'll offer more than we promise. If we're going to be called anything right before we come out, "too good to be true" is about as good as it gets. We dismiss this kind of ranting though because it's almost never well-intentioned, and often created in a negative effort to boost other games, or they're stunts trying to use the active Darkfall community to fire up their own. It's easy to be cynical: Why should Darkfall work if nobody's ever tried this before? I would think however that this should be a compelling reason to root for it, as many of you do.
Either way, you'll be the final judge of this game by playing it and that's all that matters to us.
Contradiction anyone?
Seriously though if they want to handle it that way, well, that's their choice. But then they, and the followers/fans of the game must live with what others say about the game. If they want to keep their product under tight wraps until they finally release it, not telling anyone anything of validity (and I don#t mean simple Dev-Journals and some screenshots/Videos), then fine, but as I said, you've got to live with people asking "Why?".
Because in the end, people have a right to ask that. They can ask because Aventurine chooses not to offer any kind of solid proof beside their word (and the word of Developers is, as we all know, worth nothing. Even DF Fans will agree with that, since they keep bashing AoC Dev's for breaking promises and spreading lies). So the DF Community as well as the Developers just have to accept that some people won't accept just their "word" for what they are promising and will continue asking themselves why they are being so secretive about the whole thing.
That's just my 2cents though.
Believe me, neither the DF devs or fans started this.
It's only my opinion, but I don't give a flying fuck about conventions and exhibitions. After I've seen games presented on them by lying, it won't make a difference, for me at least. If they want to do that, lie, they will, whatever the circumstance.
Or do you think AoC's demo (and I'm using AoC here as a comparative example) in E3 07 or 06 meant anything? Since they show off the game all nice and shiny, but we already know that even now there are features missing, or that there were a tonne of bugs, at least back then. Point is that there was a game to show off so the press could actually see a WORKING product therefore dispelling the Vaporware rumours. Everyone knows and accept such Demos have bugs and missing features because such games are NOT EVEN FINISHED the demo is just there to show the games current progress.
So, what does that mean about those exhibitions? That they're complete and utter bullshit.
Fact of the matter is that Darkfall has yet to show itself as being real to the world It has had no reviews or interviews with real Journalists who has actually been shown the current build. If they did then i think a lot of these rumours would just Evaporate like vapour.
Hehe, don't you think that most of the ppl here will stick to their convictions even if that happens, just because of the e-peen factor, apart for other shadier reasons.
If it will show up in a convention with anything less than the finished game, we will be having the same discussions here, based on the fact that they had 7 years to develope a working part of the game in order to "scam" ppl off their money.
If it came up with anything less than a finished game when several times we were told that it is ready for beta and after 7 years of development then i might just call the devs Scammers.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
If it came up with anything less than a finished game when several times we were told that it is ready for beta and after 7 years of development then i might just call the devs Scammers.
I wasn't talking about this years E3
I was talking about whenever. As I said before, if people want to lie, they will. The same goes for trolling/bashing/hating.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Xris375
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
Called passing the grade for proof, and extingishers rumours of vaporware.
If DF has got nothing to fear why not go mainstream?? Why not let the public play? Doesn't matter about bugs or features, its a game in production, final judgement should be on a final product.
We welcome the "too good to be true" or the "Darkfall promises everything" ranting about Darkfall because we're in a position to know that we'll offer more than we promise. If we're going to be called anything right before we come out, "too good to be true" is about as good as it gets. We dismiss this kind of ranting though because it's almost never well-intentioned, and often created in a negative effort to boost other games, or they're stunts trying to use the active Darkfall community to fire up their own. It's easy to be cynical: Why should Darkfall work if nobody's ever tried this before? I would think however that this should be a compelling reason to root for it, as many of you do.
Either way, you'll be the final judge of this game by playing it and that's all that matters to us.
/clap
Whole point is letting (you) the public play it. Backing up the argument by providing proof is the best way to do it.
Taking an eternity to get there, and the majority of the excited fan base will have moved on. (Already happening)
"This is DFO, This is the best game in the world"
"We have this feature that fucking kicks ass, and this is how it will be.. etc etc"
"We are the true PvP'ers, we are the best"
You know these types of comments, the ones the dickheads keep saying. Ever heard of the saying, put your money where your mouth is?
People should log onto the Mortal Online forums and see the abusive forumfallers that have made their presence there. Forumfall avatars and all. Its quite silly to be carrying a pretence around with you when there is nothing to back it up, but a few words on a webpage.
Show it to the public, let them play a small part. Guild beta invites was like 30 months or something back, they must of had something then? unless they lied.
There is only so much than can be preached before providing proof. Its way past that point now. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason not to show of the game in public. They have preached an overview of most of the features. Its not like no one knows what might be coming.
In my case it is well intentioned. The reality is a game of this nature being made by 30 people will take 10 yrs. Simple logistics when you really think about it.
I can't wait that long for a video game, Adventurine should stop acting like its 2004, there is some serious competition out there, and its about business at the end of the day.
Its not about the game "not working" its about customer relations and not treating your community like a piece of shit. Because lets be honest, 2 videos and 20 screen shots and 2 fan write ups over 7 yrs is just not good enough.
Called passing the grade for proof, and extingishers rumours of vaporware.
If DF has got nothing to fear why not go mainstream?? Why not let the public play? Doesn't matter about bugs or features, its a game in production, final judgement should be on a final product.
We welcome the "too good to be true" or the "Darkfall promises everything" ranting about Darkfall because we're in a position to know that we'll offer more than we promise. If we're going to be called anything right before we come out, "too good to be true" is about as good as it gets. We dismiss this kind of ranting though because it's almost never well-intentioned, and often created in a negative effort to boost other games, or they're stunts trying to use the active Darkfall community to fire up their own. It's easy to be cynical: Why should Darkfall work if nobody's ever tried this before? I would think however that this should be a compelling reason to root for it, as many of you do.
Either way, you'll be the final judge of this game by playing it and that's all that matters to us.
That is just words, it proves nothing and is just smoke and mirrors.
No offense Shannia, but you hate AoC and you hate Darkfall, so what exactly do you like?
WAR?
Cause normally there is a cut and dry group of people who like AoC and people who like Darkfall on these forums and your falling away from both those.
-Jive
What do you mean I don't like AoC? I don't like what the devs did to crafting in AoC. There is no secret about my dislike for Funcom because of it. That doesn't mean I hate the game. Darkfall Online on the other hand, I absolutely love the concept. What I don't like is their "we don't have to prove anything to our fans" mentality. They assume we all will take their word for how great their game will be just because they say so. No, put up or shut up is how I feel about that mentality.
Let me make a list of reasons why I don't believe devs until they prove it to us in just the last 18 months.
Dark & Light, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Gods and Heroes:Rome Rising, Hellgate:London, Pirates of the Burning Sea, VanguardSoH, Fury, Tabla Rasa... What do they all have in common? They all failed to deliver and what was delivered left a lot to be desired and they are all paying for it now with crap subscription numbers or out of business entirely.
In the same 18 month period, let's see who delivered a quality game.
Lord of the Rings Online (I'm shocked to admit it, but Turbine made a winner.)
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
If it came up with anything less than a finished game when several times we were told that it is ready for beta and after 7 years of development then i might just call the devs Scammers.
I wasn't talking about this years E3
Neither was i, i was just expanding on your Hypothetical Scenario of what i would think if one day this did happen.
Just a fantasy really but if that did happen then thats probably how i would react after 5 years of waiting for this game.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Comments
Experience, reliability, dependability and the fact they are a publically traded company instead of Aventurine's long history of broken promises of betas, cancellations, GUILD beta tests, cancellations, etc. Aventurine's track record is a mine field of smoke, mirrors, and deception.
You do realize that you have no backing to any of those three claims.
You see Aventurine announced beta once and didn't go through on the beta applications. Then Rasorwax missed one. So if you add that up its 3 in all but is it as bad as AoC? nope.
A few missed beta dates must = smoke, mirrors, and deception. Describe to me what AoC is going through?
LOL so true. People are so quick to jump on Darkfall for a few missed beta dates that were NEVER set in stone in the first place. How many LAUNCH dates has AoC missed so far?
I lost count but I think this might be their 5th or 6th
At least Dark & Light did something that I doubt we'll see DFO ever do. They actually launched the MMO. Sorry to say it, D&L may have been crooks, but at least they had the nads to show the world what they had, good or bad. Going forward, DFO should just go into a total media blackout until they actually have something. Dev journal #25 is a joke and waste of web space.
I love how you feel like your the next nostradamus. If you feel like the newest dev journal is crap then so be it but then again since you don't believe its coming out then I guess it doesnt really matter much what you think.
You are missing my entire point. Trust me, I 100% hate the D&L company because they are two-bit crooks. Make no mistake about it. What anyone with a 1/2 a brain can realize is that D&L did what DFO devs are afraid to do. If DFO was as good as they have claimed over and over, why are they holding back and relying on AI beta testing? They repeatedly said that on at least TWO occasions they were ready to launch the game. If that was the case, why are they holding back? With Mortal Online on the horizon, DFO needs to show their cards or risk being a vaporware footnote in the MMORPG history books.
I don't think they are holding back actually. According to Tasos, Darkfall is feature complete and is being beta tested by professional testers. Once it goes into 'playtesting' (notice he calls it playtesting and not open beta testingBy the sound of it the 'playtesting' phase could be close so everything will be 'put on the table' then.
Newsflash, all games are tested before release by professional testers, its nothing new. You think aoc and warhammer arnt being tested by mythics and funcoms own internal testers? The difference is both those games have had to be delayed because of the huge feedback they have recieved from beta testers they have invited into the closed beta. Without all those testers invited into the beta both games would have released last year and flopped hardcore.
That's because both games entered open beta in a far-from-finished state. What did the developers think would happen?The difference with Darkfall is that the devs will push out a finished game for people to playtest. When was the last time any mmorpg did THAT?!?!
WTB: Public showing at a major show / convention. GC, E3, etc.
WTS: 2 fan only write ups for professional previews / hands on experience.
I have defended Darkfall for a long ass time now, but no more, seriously its ridiculous.
Look at the community it has at this point, I dont want to be a part of this game anymore even if it does come out, because honestly no company should put players and fans through this type of hell.
Everyone who is a Darkfall fan is fighting against not only every other mmo player but themselves too.
Its sick really.
-Jive
I lost count but I think this might be their 5th or 6th
I've lost count of how many times and in how many threads you DF fanboys have dragged AoC into. AoC is not DF, and DF is not AoC get the heck over it already.
The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.
At least Dark & Light did something that I doubt we'll see DFO ever do. They actually launched the MMO. Sorry to say it, D&L may have been crooks, but at least they had the nads to show the world what they had, good or bad. Going forward, DFO should just go into a total media blackout until they actually have something. Dev journal #25 is a joke and waste of web space.
I love how you feel like your the next nostradamus. If you feel like the newest dev journal is crap then so be it but then again since you don't believe its coming out then I guess it doesnt really matter much what you think.
You are missing my entire point. Trust me, I 100% hate the D&L company because they are two-bit crooks. Make no mistake about it. What anyone with a 1/2 a brain can realize is that D&L did what DFO devs are afraid to do. If DFO was as good as they have claimed over and over, why are they holding back and relying on AI beta testing? They repeatedly said that on at least TWO occasions they were ready to launch the game. If that was the case, why are they holding back? With Mortal Online on the horizon, DFO needs to show their cards or risk being a vaporware footnote in the MMORPG history books.
I don't think they are holding back actually. According to Tasos, Darkfall is feature complete and is being beta tested by professional testers. Once it goes into 'playtesting' (notice he calls it playtesting and not open beta testingBy the sound of it the 'playtesting' phase could be close so everything will be 'put on the table' then.
Newsflash, all games are tested before release by professional testers, its nothing new. You think aoc and warhammer arnt being tested by mythics and funcoms own internal testers? The difference is both those games have had to be delayed because of the huge feedback they have recieved from beta testers they have invited into the closed beta. Without all those testers invited into the beta both games would have released last year and flopped hardcore.
That's because both games entered open beta in a far-from-finished state. What did the developers think would happen?The difference with Darkfall is that the devs will push out a finished game for people to playtest. When was the last time any mmorpg did THAT?!?!
WTB: Public showing at a major show / convention. GC, E3, etc.
WTS: 2 fan only write ups for professional previews / hands on experience.
Case closed. Good post, Avery.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Case closed. Good post, Avery.
But wait, by your logic, DnL had those things. Or doesn't DnL count when we're comparing it with AoC?
Case closed. Good post, Avery.
But wait, by your logic, DnL had those things. Or doesn't DnL count when we're comparing it with AoC?
Im asking this of DFO. Nothing to do with AoC here mate.
I like the idea's, I like the premise, the setting.
Im tired of the same old topics coming up time after time with nothing new to add about the game.
Im tired of the monthly journal with minimal content.
If DFO isn't at E3 2008 in July or at GC 2008 in August. Then the game will really be on the backburner for me.
Its a great dream, but it remains just that, Adventurine needs to bring it to reality before many people move on. They need to be honest and put what they have out there for public viewing. Half of forumfall regulars are posting on a new games website already.
You could spot DnL stink a mile off at E3.
Strange, but the only ones in a hurry is those with another title in their sig. I'm not in a hurry. I rather wait for a quality game than play a crappy one. The devs wants the customers to try (before buy) a fully featured game. Testing and the like they use professionals for (better results and less leaks). As for other skill based, sandboxgames, I welcome them.
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
It's only my opinion, but I don't give a flying fuck about conventions and exhibitions. After I've seen games presented on them by lying, it won't make a difference, for me at least. If they want to do that, lie, they will, whatever the circumstance.
Or do you think AoC's demo (and I'm using AoC here as a comparative example) in E3 07 or 06 meant anything? Since they show off the game all nice and shiny, but we already know that even now there are features missing, or that there were a tonne of bugs, at least back then.
So, what does that mean about those exhibitions? That they're complete and utter bullshit.
It's only my opinion, but I don't give a flying fuck about conventions and exhibitions. After I've seen games presented on them by lieing, it won't make a difference, for me at least. If they want to do that, lie, they will, whatever the circumstance.
Or do you think AoC's demo (and I'm using AoC here as a comparative example) in E3 07 or 06 meant anything? Since they show off the game all nice and shiny, but we already know that even now there are features missing, or that there were a tonne of bugs, at least back then.
So, what does that mean about those exhibitions? That they're complete and utter bullshit.
Called passing the grade for proof, and extingishers rumours of vaporware.
If DF has got nothing to fear why not go mainstream?? Why not let the public play?
Doesn't matter about bugs or features, its a game in production, final judgement should be on a final product.
From the latest dev report;
We welcome the "too good to be true" or the "Darkfall promises everything" ranting about Darkfall because we're in a position to know that we'll offer more than we promise. If we're going to be called anything right before we come out, "too good to be true" is about as good as it gets. We dismiss this kind of ranting though because it's almost never well-intentioned, and often created in a negative effort to boost other games, or they're stunts trying to use the active Darkfall community to fire up their own. It's easy to be cynical: Why should Darkfall work if nobody's ever tried this before? I would think however that this should be a compelling reason to root for it, as many of you do.
Either way, you'll be the final judge of this game by playing it and that's all that matters to us.
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
From the latest dev report;
We welcome the "too good to be true" or the "Darkfall promises everything" ranting about Darkfall because we're in a position to know that we'll offer more than we promise. If we're going to be called anything right before we come out, "too good to be true" is about as good as it gets. We dismiss this kind of ranting though because it's almost never well-intentioned, and often created in a negative effort to boost other games, or they're stunts trying to use the active Darkfall community to fire up their own. It's easy to be cynical: Why should Darkfall work if nobody's ever tried this before? I would think however that this should be a compelling reason to root for it, as many of you do.
Either way, you'll be the final judge of this game by playing it and that's all that matters to us.
That is just words, it proves nothing and is just smoke and mirrors.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
From the latest dev report;
We welcome the "too good to be true" or the "Darkfall promises everything" ranting about Darkfall because we're in a position to know that we'll offer more than we promise. If we're going to be called anything right before we come out, "too good to be true" is about as good as it gets. We dismiss this kind of ranting though because it's almost never well-intentioned, and often created in a negative effort to boost other games, or they're stunts trying to use the active Darkfall community to fire up their own. It's easy to be cynical: Why should Darkfall work if nobody's ever tried this before? I would think however that this should be a compelling reason to root for it, as many of you do.
Either way, you'll be the final judge of this game by playing it and that's all that matters to us.
That is just words, it proves nothing and is just smoke and mirrors.
No offense Shannia, but you hate AoC and you hate Darkfall, so what exactly do you like?
WAR?
Cause normally there is a cut and dry group of people who like AoC and people who like Darkfall on these forums and your falling away from both those.
-Jive
It's only my opinion, but I don't give a flying fuck about conventions and exhibitions. After I've seen games presented on them by lying, it won't make a difference, for me at least. If they want to do that, lie, they will, whatever the circumstance.
Or do you think AoC's demo (and I'm using AoC here as a comparative example) in E3 07 or 06 meant anything? Since they show off the game all nice and shiny, but we already know that even now there are features missing, or that there were a tonne of bugs, at least back then. Point is that there was a game to show off so the press could actually see a WORKING product therefore dispelling the Vaporware rumours. Everyone knows and accept such Demos have bugs and missing features because such games are NOT EVEN FINISHED the demo is just there to show the games current progress.
So, what does that mean about those exhibitions? That they're complete and utter bullshit.
Fact of the matter is that Darkfall has yet to show itself as being real to the world It has had no reviews or interviews with real Journalists who has actually been shown the current build. If they did then i think a lot of these rumours would just Evaporate like vapour.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
From the latest dev report;
We welcome the "too good to be true" or the "Darkfall promises everything" ranting about Darkfall because we're in a position to know that we'll offer more than we promise. If we're going to be called anything right before we come out, "too good to be true" is about as good as it gets. We dismiss this kind of ranting though because it's almost never well-intentioned, and often created in a negative effort to boost other games, or they're stunts trying to use the active Darkfall community to fire up their own. It's easy to be cynical: Why should Darkfall work if nobody's ever tried this before? I would think however that this should be a compelling reason to root for it, as many of you do.
Either way, you'll be the final judge of this game by playing it and that's all that matters to us.
Contradiction anyone?Seriously though if they want to handle it that way, well, that's their choice. But then they, and the followers/fans of the game must live with what others say about the game. If they want to keep their product under tight wraps until they finally release it, not telling anyone anything of validity (and I don#t mean simple Dev-Journals and some screenshots/Videos), then fine, but as I said, you've got to live with people asking "Why?".
Because in the end, people have a right to ask that. They can ask because Aventurine chooses not to offer any kind of solid proof beside their word (and the word of Developers is, as we all know, worth nothing. Even DF Fans will agree with that, since they keep bashing AoC Dev's for breaking promises and spreading lies). So the DF Community as well as the Developers just have to accept that some people won't accept just their "word" for what they are promising and will continue asking themselves why they are being so secretive about the whole thing.
That's just my 2cents though.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
But the thing is, they don't have to prove anything yet. They're not selling anything, no pre orders or advertising, nothing.
Now, whenever they will ask me for my money, that will be the moment I'll ask them for proof.
As for the ppl that say "keep on waiting guys" in a sarcastic tone, I don't really understand their reasoning. At least we the fanbois/defenders etc, are waiting here for a reason, the haters/trolls etc, are waiting for a non-reason. Which do you think is worse?
That is just words, it proves nothing and is just smoke and mirrors.
That is i belive Tasos point. You don't have to belive anything. The devs doesn't have to prove anything. When you try this game you will know (for free). Until then you root for it and/or do something else.
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
It's only my opinion, but I don't give a flying fuck about conventions and exhibitions. After I've seen games presented on them by lying, it won't make a difference, for me at least. If they want to do that, lie, they will, whatever the circumstance.
Or do you think AoC's demo (and I'm using AoC here as a comparative example) in E3 07 or 06 meant anything? Since they show off the game all nice and shiny, but we already know that even now there are features missing, or that there were a tonne of bugs, at least back then. Point is that there was a game to show off so the press could actually see a WORKING product therefore dispelling the Vaporware rumours. Everyone knows and accept such Demos have bugs and missing features because such games are NOT EVEN FINISHED the demo is just there to show the games current progress.
So, what does that mean about those exhibitions? That they're complete and utter bullshit.
Fact of the matter is that Darkfall has yet to show itself as being real to the world It has had no reviews or interviews with real Journalists who has actually been shown the current build. If they did then i think a lot of these rumours would just Evaporate like vapour.
Hehe, don't you think that most of the ppl here will stick to their convictions even if that happens, just because of the e-peen factor, apart for other shadier reasons.
If it will show up in a convention with anything less than the finished game, we will be having the same discussions here, based on the fact that they had 7 years to develope a working part of the game in order to "scam" ppl off their money.
From the latest dev report;
We welcome the "too good to be true" or the "Darkfall promises everything" ranting about Darkfall because we're in a position to know that we'll offer more than we promise. If we're going to be called anything right before we come out, "too good to be true" is about as good as it gets. We dismiss this kind of ranting though because it's almost never well-intentioned, and often created in a negative effort to boost other games, or they're stunts trying to use the active Darkfall community to fire up their own. It's easy to be cynical: Why should Darkfall work if nobody's ever tried this before? I would think however that this should be a compelling reason to root for it, as many of you do.
Either way, you'll be the final judge of this game by playing it and that's all that matters to us.
Contradiction anyone?Seriously though if they want to handle it that way, well, that's their choice. But then they, and the followers/fans of the game must live with what others say about the game. If they want to keep their product under tight wraps until they finally release it, not telling anyone anything of validity (and I don#t mean simple Dev-Journals and some screenshots/Videos), then fine, but as I said, you've got to live with people asking "Why?".
Because in the end, people have a right to ask that. They can ask because Aventurine chooses not to offer any kind of solid proof beside their word (and the word of Developers is, as we all know, worth nothing. Even DF Fans will agree with that, since they keep bashing AoC Dev's for breaking promises and spreading lies). So the DF Community as well as the Developers just have to accept that some people won't accept just their "word" for what they are promising and will continue asking themselves why they are being so secretive about the whole thing.
That's just my 2cents though.
Believe me, neither the DF devs or fans started this.
It's only my opinion, but I don't give a flying fuck about conventions and exhibitions. After I've seen games presented on them by lying, it won't make a difference, for me at least. If they want to do that, lie, they will, whatever the circumstance.
Or do you think AoC's demo (and I'm using AoC here as a comparative example) in E3 07 or 06 meant anything? Since they show off the game all nice and shiny, but we already know that even now there are features missing, or that there were a tonne of bugs, at least back then. Point is that there was a game to show off so the press could actually see a WORKING product therefore dispelling the Vaporware rumours. Everyone knows and accept such Demos have bugs and missing features because such games are NOT EVEN FINISHED the demo is just there to show the games current progress.
So, what does that mean about those exhibitions? That they're complete and utter bullshit.
Fact of the matter is that Darkfall has yet to show itself as being real to the world It has had no reviews or interviews with real Journalists who has actually been shown the current build. If they did then i think a lot of these rumours would just Evaporate like vapour.
Hehe, don't you think that most of the ppl here will stick to their convictions even if that happens, just because of the e-peen factor, apart for other shadier reasons.
If it will show up in a convention with anything less than the finished game, we will be having the same discussions here, based on the fact that they had 7 years to develope a working part of the game in order to "scam" ppl off their money.
If it came up with anything less than a finished game when several times we were told that it is ready for beta and after 7 years of development then i might just call the devs Scammers.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
I wasn't talking about this years E3
I was talking about whenever. As I said before, if people want to lie, they will. The same goes for trolling/bashing/hating.
From the latest dev report;
We welcome the "too good to be true" or the "Darkfall promises everything" ranting about Darkfall because we're in a position to know that we'll offer more than we promise. If we're going to be called anything right before we come out, "too good to be true" is about as good as it gets. We dismiss this kind of ranting though because it's almost never well-intentioned, and often created in a negative effort to boost other games, or they're stunts trying to use the active Darkfall community to fire up their own. It's easy to be cynical: Why should Darkfall work if nobody's ever tried this before? I would think however that this should be a compelling reason to root for it, as many of you do.
Either way, you'll be the final judge of this game by playing it and that's all that matters to us.
/clap
Whole point is letting (you) the public play it. Backing up the argument by providing proof is the best way to do it.
Taking an eternity to get there, and the majority of the excited fan base will have moved on. (Already happening)
"This is DFO, This is the best game in the world"
"We have this feature that fucking kicks ass, and this is how it will be.. etc etc"
"We are the true PvP'ers, we are the best"
You know these types of comments, the ones the dickheads keep saying. Ever heard of the saying, put your money where your mouth is?
People should log onto the Mortal Online forums and see the abusive forumfallers that have made their presence there. Forumfall avatars and all. Its quite silly to be carrying a pretence around with you when there is nothing to back it up, but a few words on a webpage.
Show it to the public, let them play a small part. Guild beta invites was like 30 months or something back, they must of had something then? unless they lied.
There is only so much than can be preached before providing proof. Its way past that point now. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason not to show of the game in public. They have preached an overview of most of the features. Its not like no one knows what might be coming.
In my case it is well intentioned. The reality is a game of this nature being made by 30 people will take 10 yrs. Simple logistics when you really think about it.
I can't wait that long for a video game, Adventurine should stop acting like its 2004, there is some serious competition out there, and its about business at the end of the day.
Its not about the game "not working" its about customer relations and not treating your community like a piece of shit. Because lets be honest, 2 videos and 20 screen shots and 2 fan write ups over 7 yrs is just not good enough.
From the latest dev report;
We welcome the "too good to be true" or the "Darkfall promises everything" ranting about Darkfall because we're in a position to know that we'll offer more than we promise. If we're going to be called anything right before we come out, "too good to be true" is about as good as it gets. We dismiss this kind of ranting though because it's almost never well-intentioned, and often created in a negative effort to boost other games, or they're stunts trying to use the active Darkfall community to fire up their own. It's easy to be cynical: Why should Darkfall work if nobody's ever tried this before? I would think however that this should be a compelling reason to root for it, as many of you do.
Either way, you'll be the final judge of this game by playing it and that's all that matters to us.
That is just words, it proves nothing and is just smoke and mirrors.
No offense Shannia, but you hate AoC and you hate Darkfall, so what exactly do you like?
WAR?
Cause normally there is a cut and dry group of people who like AoC and people who like Darkfall on these forums and your falling away from both those.
-Jive
What do you mean I don't like AoC? I don't like what the devs did to crafting in AoC. There is no secret about my dislike for Funcom because of it. That doesn't mean I hate the game. Darkfall Online on the other hand, I absolutely love the concept. What I don't like is their "we don't have to prove anything to our fans" mentality. They assume we all will take their word for how great their game will be just because they say so. No, put up or shut up is how I feel about that mentality.
Let me make a list of reasons why I don't believe devs until they prove it to us in just the last 18 months.
Dark & Light, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Gods and Heroes:Rome Rising, Hellgate:London, Pirates of the Burning Sea, VanguardSoH, Fury, Tabla Rasa... What do they all have in common? They all failed to deliver and what was delivered left a lot to be desired and they are all paying for it now with crap subscription numbers or out of business entirely.
In the same 18 month period, let's see who delivered a quality game.
Lord of the Rings Online (I'm shocked to admit it, but Turbine made a winner.)
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
I wasn't talking about this years E3
Neither was i, i was just expanding on your Hypothetical Scenario of what i would think if one day this did happen.Just a fantasy really but if that did happen then thats probably how i would react after 5 years of waiting for this game.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981