I had 1 account in Pre-CU, and have 4 active now in the NGE. Too much fun being a spy, bounty hunter and medic along with crafting professions for just one account.
good for you and proofs the point that many of subscriptions are just alt accounts lol
So in really if we see 10 people in Restuss on pictures we can expect only 5 (oh sorry according to propotion you given there must be then 2 and 1 afk lol) people handle them...
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Originally posted by vickypollard I was sad to see TEF gone but all the forum crybabies got rid of that and they even stopped decay from happening in the NGE too. I can't stand game forums just full of people who want everything to be easy and when they die they start crying about it.
False.
People on the forums never had anything to do with anything done to the game. Poor management and a lack of ethics on the part of SOE are 100% to blame.
Originally posted by saay Originally posted by vickypollardI wont ever let it go because I don't want people to forgot what crap mmorpgs they make, hopefully they'll eventually do something about all the bad press they get.
To be fair they did make the Pre-CU game which you obviously loved, without them you wouldnt have had it at all. You should let it go because not letting it go doesnt achieve anything since every MMO company knows (many times over) that to make a mistake like the NGE is idiotic and doesnt work.
If people do as you saay then the companies will forget -- which is what you seem to want.
Not letting it go is the only thing keeping it from happening again.
Originally posted by Sam123jo0123 Originally posted by abel5405 Originally posted by Davynelord I understand people's frustration with SOE and SWG. I was one of those vets who went through all the crap from launch until about 6 months after NGE was released, then I quit. I am just as disapointed in SOE as anyone.
However, isn't it about time we just let it all go. Get over it, put our energy into helping build up some other game community of some other game instead of continuing to tear down SOE and SWG? Hey, they screwed up...and badly.....but there comes a time when you just have to accept the mistakes that's been made and focus on the future. I just don't see any purpose in continuing to gripe about SWG when you know they really don't give a damn about what people say.
It's hard to let go of somthing like this because SOE and LA basically got away with robery hiding under a notice saying, "Online game experience may change." Months/Years of subscriptions sent in to fund the distruction of the current customer base, AND, there is nothing nobody can do about it outside of protest. I say let the protest continue if anything from a business point of view. If this had been another other entertainment type of product I wonder if they would have gotten a way with it, like cable TV, ISP's, that sort of thing.
Don't accept the EULA if you don't agree with it. It's all legal.
Maybe, maybe not. The EULA, and any non-negotiated contract, only goes as far as it doesn't violate a reasonable person's expectation. It is completely arguable that with the NGE, they changed the game far beyond what a reasonable person would expect. Had there been a class action suit launched, they very well may have lost. The only problem there would be, what damages could one claim? That would be problematic.
Either way the EULA is far from a binding agreement which allows them to do as they please with your money. If they and other companies abuse these things again, sooner or later it will catch up to them.
This is a new area of law and it has yet to play itself out. Thus far consumer reaction has been all that's happened.
So far it's only cost them millions. We'll see what the future holds if they ever do it again.
I would so love to play Pre CU SWG again... i am even craving to play it in it's current incarnation (which sucks, IMHO), but i refuse to reward SOE in anyway after the insane way they have treated their players....
I was sad to see TEF gone but all the forum crybabies got rid of that and they even stopped decay from happening in the NGE too. I can't stand game forums just full of people who want everything to be easy and when they die they start crying about it.
Yes, the end of TEF and Decay were amongst the first signs that the SWG Team had been infected with the virus that slowly ate away their brains.
Three here. I can't even count the number of multiple account folks in my guild...it was practically required to have an alt!
I had two accounts myself and then an old friend traded me one of his - it was a Jedi with a MPowers config and I wanted to try it for myself. I played those three accounts for a month and then sold the Jedi account for, I think, £400. A week later, the NGE was announced and, a week later, I led all my old characters up the hill beside my personal guildhall-cum-museum of blue holography, took some photos and then closed the account down.
There is a case before the courts now, involving the EULA for another game, and it will be one of the first to address many areas of consumers' rights, in the area of virtual property.
In general, the EULA is no different than any other contract, and, if the contract violates existing law in a given jurisdiction, it is not enforceable. An illegal contract is not enforceable.
If it said in the EULA that if you canceled the game at some point, a representative of $OE had the right to come to your house and kick you in the nutz, do you think that would be legal, even though you agreed to it in the contract? That would be no. Why? Because assault is a crime and a person can not contractually agree to participate in an illegal act, even if he/she wanted to.
There is a case before the courts now, involving the EULA for another game, and it will be one of the first to address many areas of consumers' rights, in the area of virtual property. In general, the EULA is no different than any other contract, and, if the contract violates existing law in a given jurisdiction, it is not enforceable. An illegal contract is not enforceable. If it said in the EULA that if you canceled the game at some point, a representative of $OE had the right to come to your house and kick you in the nutz, do you think that would be legal, even though you agreed to it in the contract? That would be no. Why? Because assault is a crime and a person can not contractually agree to participate in an illegal act, even if he/she wanted to.
Exactly. Again, see the disclaimers in SOE's EULA that come right out and say that it isn't legally valid in some jurisdictions.
So, if you paid for something in a game that you were promised by the service provider, and the service provider didn't deliver, check out your legal options.
If it turns out that the service provider knowingly misled you, and took your money under false pretenses, you may have a civil case, and a criminal case for fraud; EULA be damned. Yes, I ran this past my colleagues who practice law.
If you've been defrauded, I encourage you to contact the appropriate authorities and/or consult with legal representation.
The other reason that people have not been more aggressive, legally is for the amount of money involved. However, the amount has absolutely nothing to do with corporate malfeasance.
A recent example is Dollar Rent-a-car. Several major Dollar franchises (owned by the same partnership) were running a scam on everyone renting a car from them, by saying that a car's gas tank was not full, if the company could put ANY gas in the tank. Well, even if you drive straight from the gas station to the rent-acar place, you could still put in a bit of gas, much less than a gallon. Well, they also charged to the nearest gallon, so everyone that turned in a car, got changed an extra$3.50-$4.50 for one gallon of gas.
It might not sound like a lot, but with hundreds of thousands of transactions, it might not have been a big deal to a customer that they got charged a few extra $$$ (and almost everyone didn't care about the couple extra bucks) but the company made an extra $1.5 million just by pulling this deal, because, who is going to sue over $3.50-$4? They got away with it for a long time, until the State AG got involved.
It is only because no one has tested this same legal principle yet, challenging a EULA or "Game may change" deals in the virtual property/MMO realm, that this kind of thing goes on. If/when RMTs become more common, I think that it will become very clear, very quickly what MMOs companies can do, messing around with items a person paid for.
I have a feeling that the ToOW expansion fiasco could have met the same consumer protection standard for civil or even criminal penalties, had not $OE offered a "refund". It was probably because their lawyers were smart enough to tell the Morons-in-charge to fork over the bread, or potentially get a worse deal when their overall business practices were looked at.
Comments
good for you and proofs the point that many of subscriptions are just alt accounts lol
So in really if we see 10 people in Restuss on pictures we can expect only 5 (oh sorry according to propotion you given there must be then 2 and 1 afk lol) people handle them...
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
People on the forums never had anything to do with anything done to the game. Poor management and a lack of ethics on the part of SOE are 100% to blame.
fishermage.blogspot.com
To be fair they did make the Pre-CU game which you obviously loved, without them you wouldnt have had it at all. You should let it go because not letting it go doesnt achieve anything since every MMO company knows (many times over) that to make a mistake like the NGE is idiotic and doesnt work.
If people do as you saay then the companies will forget -- which is what you seem to want.
Not letting it go is the only thing keeping it from happening again.
fishermage.blogspot.com
It's hard to let go of somthing like this because SOE and LA basically got away with robery hiding under a notice saying, "Online game experience may change." Months/Years of subscriptions sent in to fund the distruction of the current customer base, AND, there is nothing nobody can do about it outside of protest. I say let the protest continue if anything from a business point of view. If this had been another other entertainment type of product I wonder if they would have gotten a way with it, like cable TV, ISP's, that sort of thing.
Don't accept the EULA if you don't agree with it. It's all legal.
Maybe, maybe not. The EULA, and any non-negotiated contract, only goes as far as it doesn't violate a reasonable person's expectation. It is completely arguable that with the NGE, they changed the game far beyond what a reasonable person would expect. Had there been a class action suit launched, they very well may have lost. The only problem there would be, what damages could one claim? That would be problematic.
Either way the EULA is far from a binding agreement which allows them to do as they please with your money. If they and other companies abuse these things again, sooner or later it will catch up to them.
This is a new area of law and it has yet to play itself out. Thus far consumer reaction has been all that's happened.
So far it's only cost them millions. We'll see what the future holds if they ever do it again.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I would so love to play Pre CU SWG again... i am even craving to play it in it's current incarnation (which sucks, IMHO), but i refuse to reward SOE in anyway after the insane way they have treated their players....
blah blah blah
4 for me.
Three here. I can't even count the number of multiple account folks in my guild...it was practically required to have an alt!
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Yes, the end of TEF and Decay were amongst the first signs that the SWG Team had been infected with the virus that slowly ate away their brains.
4 for me.
Three here. I can't even count the number of multiple account folks in my guild...it was practically required to have an alt!
I had two accounts myself and then an old friend traded me one of his - it was a Jedi with a MPowers config and I wanted to try it for myself. I played those three accounts for a month and then sold the Jedi account for, I think, £400. A week later, the NGE was announced and, a week later, I led all my old characters up the hill beside my personal guildhall-cum-museum of blue holography, took some photos and then closed the account down.
There is a case before the courts now, involving the EULA for another game, and it will be one of the first to address many areas of consumers' rights, in the area of virtual property.
In general, the EULA is no different than any other contract, and, if the contract violates existing law in a given jurisdiction, it is not enforceable. An illegal contract is not enforceable.
If it said in the EULA that if you canceled the game at some point, a representative of $OE had the right to come to your house and kick you in the nutz, do you think that would be legal, even though you agreed to it in the contract? That would be no. Why? Because assault is a crime and a person can not contractually agree to participate in an illegal act, even if he/she wanted to.
Exactly. Again, see the disclaimers in SOE's EULA that come right out and say that it isn't legally valid in some jurisdictions.
So, if you paid for something in a game that you were promised by the service provider, and the service provider didn't deliver, check out your legal options.
If it turns out that the service provider knowingly misled you, and took your money under false pretenses, you may have a civil case, and a criminal case for fraud; EULA be damned. Yes, I ran this past my colleagues who practice law.
If you've been defrauded, I encourage you to contact the appropriate authorities and/or consult with legal representation.
The other reason that people have not been more aggressive, legally is for the amount of money involved. However, the amount has absolutely nothing to do with corporate malfeasance.
A recent example is Dollar Rent-a-car. Several major Dollar franchises (owned by the same partnership) were running a scam on everyone renting a car from them, by saying that a car's gas tank was not full, if the company could put ANY gas in the tank. Well, even if you drive straight from the gas station to the rent-acar place, you could still put in a bit of gas, much less than a gallon. Well, they also charged to the nearest gallon, so everyone that turned in a car, got changed an extra$3.50-$4.50 for one gallon of gas.
It might not sound like a lot, but with hundreds of thousands of transactions, it might not have been a big deal to a customer that they got charged a few extra $$$ (and almost everyone didn't care about the couple extra bucks) but the company made an extra $1.5 million just by pulling this deal, because, who is going to sue over $3.50-$4? They got away with it for a long time, until the State AG got involved.
It is only because no one has tested this same legal principle yet, challenging a EULA or "Game may change" deals in the virtual property/MMO realm, that this kind of thing goes on. If/when RMTs become more common, I think that it will become very clear, very quickly what MMOs companies can do, messing around with items a person paid for.
I have a feeling that the ToOW expansion fiasco could have met the same consumer protection standard for civil or even criminal penalties, had not $OE offered a "refund". It was probably because their lawyers were smart enough to tell the Morons-in-charge to fork over the bread, or potentially get a worse deal when their overall business practices were looked at.