Combat: 101

kazson

this is a popular complaint i hear so after spending a entire weekend playing the hell out of the game im going to calm some of your fears,this combat system REALLY shines, no you CANT expect to bunny hop spamming all your best combos just not gonna happen, ill explain

Pacing: Firstly calm down, there is almost a "rythm" to combat, dont SPAM keys ! no matter have fast you hit a key you will only swing so fast, queue up your next combo know which keys to execute it be patient and "think" ahead, think about where your foe is going and not where he is

Set ups: all classes have what i call a "Set up" move, classes can do knockbacks,knockdowns,stuns,dazes,roots etc, these moves arent combos so they only take hitting a key to excute (ala WoW) so after doing a move like this you can pull off some of your harder combos.

Small Combos:  some combos are very easy to pull off in combat...my assassin had a nice dmg combo that was only press key then "w" and the move had a good deal of range as well so even if they move away it would still connect.

Mobile Combos: you cant run in a straight line and do combos however  you can strafe without breaking your combo and turn in circles...so for example if your foe was in front of you and you started the combo and he moved to the left, you could turn your charater to face him and not break the combo, as long as you dont move forward or backwards, Also remember if you cant do a combo because they are running around too much, your foe CANT either nor can they cast, be patient and wait for your opening, your basic attack moves arent weak/useless like other games "auto attacks"

Collsion: is awesome! i wish i could do this to druids in wow...another powerful tatic is a "Swarm" bascially if you see a healer/caster 2-3 people gang up and "box" them in so they cant run and then you can pull off combos very easy

The enivorment: archers use pillars,bushes to hide behind, soliders knock people off ledges, casters use your hide skill and wait in the wake so you dont get targetted as fast, rogues sneak through the guardian front lines, everyone talks abou AoC combos but combat has ALOT more to it

Killing Runners: so if a foe sprints off he is hard to catch, think of a rogue hitting sprint and you have the idea, you should prepare and save stunning combos or have bleeding effects to kill them as they run off, Another neat feature any class can attack a foe in the back to produce a "daze" effect slowing their movement

Debuffs: one word WOW! im very impressed by the effect debuffs have on a foe, decreasing your foes attackspeed,attack skilling, lowering resitances and armors acutally is EXTREMLEY noticeable, its not all about dmg moves, if you are smart you will have these moves ready

Combat Length: You wont be a superhero, you are going to be hard pressed to if you think you are going to kill 5 players solo, if you are gangbanged you will die fast, if you are caught off guard you will die fast, however 1 vs 1 combat last long enough to think plan and execute, 1 vs 2 will also give you enough time to either escape or CC etc. 1 vs 3 even with healing on you, most likely spells a quick death

Healing: so most MMOs have burst heals, AoC has some but they arent 1hp to full spells, some think healing is weak because they are used to that, healing is a edge thats it...its not a "IWIN" button if 2 teams 100% even matched the team with the smart healer will win everytime, think of heals as a buffer a delay of death so to speak, you arent helping your team if you stay in back and just heal, you are much better off staying mixing dmg with heals, Feats help in this respect, bear shamans get a melee dmg buff when they have a heal ticking on them, PoM for every heal they cast get a holy dmg attack bonus and the more Tempest of the set do dmg spells the stronger the heals, healers have begged for a less boring healing system you will NOT fall asleep at the keyboard playing a priest  

If you have any questions about combat let me know and ill answer, enjoy AoC ! see you on the 17th !

 

sanicek

Thank you for posting this, it clarified some things for me in a very comprehensive way.

jiveturkey12

Originally posted by kazson


this is a popular complaint i hear so after spending a entire weekend playing the hell out of the game im going to calm some of your fears,this combat system REALLY shines, no you CANT expect to bunny hop spamming all your best combos just not gonna happen, ill explain
Firstly calm down, there is almost a "rythm" to combat, dont SPAM keys ! no matter have fast you hit a key you will only swing so fast, queue up your next combo know which keys to execute it be patient and "think" ahead
all classes have what i call a "Set up" move, classes can do knockbacks,knockdowns,stuns etc, these moves arent combos so they only take hitting a key to excute (ala WoW) so after doing a move like this you can pull off some of your harder combos.
Also some combos are very easy to pull off in combat...my assassin had a nice dmg combo that was only press key then "w" and the move had a good deal of range as well so even if they move away it would still connect.
Also you can strafe without breaking your combo and turn in circles...so for example if your foe was in front of you and you started the combo and he moved to the left, you could turn your charater to face him and not break the combo, as long as you dont move forward or backwards
collsion is awesome! i wish i could do this to druids in wow...another powerful tatic is a "Swarm" bascially if you see a healer/caster 2-3 people gang up and "box" them in so they cant run and then you can pull off combos very easy
Use the enivorment, archers use pillars to hide behind, soliders knock people off ledges, casters use your hide skill and wake in the wake, rogues attack that ranger in the corner,
You wont be a superhero, you are going to be hard pressed to pull a wow and make a video of yourself pwning 10 players...just not going to happen, at most with my conq  i was able to burn down 3 casters back to back but once people get more skill i doubt this will happen
If you have any questions about combat let me know and ill answer, enjoy AoC ! see you on the 17th !
 

Im really glad to see more people then just Avery making intelligent, concise, posts around here.

 

Keep up the good work. I actually learned a few things myself that ill have to try out.

 

-Jive

krieblood

yeah awesome post man i havent been able to play and have been wanting some upfront info on the combat system and just thanx. just reassured me this would be another SWG where u actually have to think to own. i come in WoW top 10 with my warrior and lock with out even trying just brainless clicking. i miss complex and skill requirements that wow just lacks

Hrica

I think the title to your thread underminds the rich content of your thoughts

Great read and info!

Maybe next time give your topic a bit better title. When I see OMGZ or ZOMG I think back to WoW.....

 

demolishIX

 You will hear the "OMGZ i cant combo while moving" comment from WoW players who want to spam their best skill,but unfortunetly you actualy have to think how you attack.

  The powerfuller the combos are,the harder they are to perform and the easyer they are to dodge.For exemple the HoX molten steel slash combo has a cast timer,even after you performed the sequence to activate it,there is a cast period for it before it does the actual dmg,during that time your oponent can run away or even intrerupt you,but if it hits,it does a ton of dmg.Soo you have to plan ahead,if your allies surounded several enemys it will be easy to perform the combo cause colision phisics in AoC dont turn every player into a ghost and they dont pass threw each other.

-Pawn-

I tell you what i never liked the whole hit the hot bar button combat. But this combat is awsome. With my Adult ADD i can play wow for about 20 mins before i start looking at porn. I started playing Beta Fri. night and next thing it was sunday night. Combat is very fun and not boring.  I'm sure though people are not going to be use to it off the bat.  But its like a new song people dont like, It will Grow on you then you will want to hear that song all the time.

TheArzhAngel

When we all from beta weekend allso have to be tru. 



-

To make the combo system work, as pland and all the time, not 1 out of 10. 

1. The enemy has to be stund, rooted ect.

2. The enemy has to be fhighting a nother enemy.

3. Or drain from stanima, and runing from you, whit his/hes back to you. 



Beside that more or less, luck to activat a combo. If its not a 1 "pess" combo.

DAS1337

Originally posted by TheArzhAngel


When we all from beta weekend allso have to be tru. 



-
To make the combo system work, as pland and all the time, not 1 out of 10. 

1. The enemy has to be stund, rooted ect.

2. The enemy has to be fhighting a nother enemy.

3. Or drain from stanima, and runing from you, whit his/hes back to you. 



Beside that more or less, luck to activat a combo. If its not a 1 "pess" combo.

Not entirely true.  You may miss a combo if the person is running away from you.  You may miss a combo if that person leaps out of the way in time.  Those stuns and roots are there so it adds a little control, enough time finish them off, or work them down.  I think the combo system works as planned, it's just that not a whole lot of people can figure out how to master it within three days of playtime.

 

Executing a combo is anything but luck.  Once you start to memorize those combos, you won't even have to look at the pop-up directional keys for a reminder.  If you can't execute a combo while fighting someone, then it might not be Funcom's fault.. 

 

Plus, not everyone is interested in running away, when someone is wailing away at you, there's no excuse not to combo.

Kyleran

Good write, almost lost under a bad title.  I agree, the combat system was a refreshing change, and it will take me some time to master it. (I'm slow at these things)

Overall quite enjoyable, and good write-up btw, gave me some things to try next time around.

kazson

Originally posted by Hrica


I think the title to your thread underminds the rich content of your thoughts
Great read and info!
Maybe next time give your topic a bit better title. When I see OMGZ or ZOMG I think back to WoW.....
 

thanks i changed the title, added a little more and make it more readable

Unknown

I don't see how what you posted is anything different than what exists in City of Heroes other than the combos on the Dual Blades powerset lets you move.

 

I am not saying its the same thing I am just saying your explanation of features already exists in a game that is 5 years old.   Including the collisions, pacing,debuffs and environmental effects

 

So if there is more to the combo system than just this I would like to hear it.  Especially since the City of Heroes DB combos are considered hard to execute in PvP.

kazson

Originally posted by gestalt11


I don't see how what you posted is anything different than what exists in City of Heroes other than the combos on the Dual Blades powerset lets you move.
 
I am not saying its the same thing I am just saying your explanation of features already exists in a game that is 5 years old.   Including the collisions, pacing,debuffs and environmental effects
 
So if there is more to the combo system than just this I would like to hear it.  Especially since the City of Heroes DB combos are considered hard to execute in PvP.

been way too long since i played City Of heroes maybe someone else will be able to answer this for you

kazson

added a healing section

greymann

I remember a little quote from another developer that seems apply: "easy to learn, difficult to master".  So is this one easy or difficult to learn?

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Gamer_17

I was just wondering how tactful this game is in large combat i mean when you stand next to your team mates is it easy to run through and if a horse charges at someone does nothing happen or do they take tremendous damgage?

Gnazon

---

Originally posted by greymann
I remember a little quote from another developer that seems apply: "easy to learn, difficult to master". So is this one easy or difficult to learn?

---

I would say that it is not that hard, the pve start eases you into it, and in the beginning the 'combos' are 2 buttons (activate + direction). Later the combos become more complicated (activate + more directions to press in order). I think that the hardest thing about the combat system is the mental switching of the system from fire-and-forget one click system to plan, time and then click (and hope you got it all right and your enemy is still in range). This is especially true in pvp where your target will do everything to stop you from doing just that.

I think that at higher levels it there is a lot more tactics involved as combos get longer and defenses (stuns/dazes and their countermeasures) get more common.

@OP
Really great post, I agree with most of your points.

As for healing I really liked it, I have tried all of the priest classes and I loved the experience. Yes, the healing is not as powerful as in most other games, but you have more utility. You are not limited to just being a healbot, there is so much more to do as support also most of the healing is cone based so placement is important, no more standing a mile away spamming two buttons. I really loved my ToS and I am SOO going to roll one at release.

Wharg0ul

well, the combos aren't the only thing that take practice. Dodging, momentum, attack angles, shielding, timing, opening up defenses....

GAWD I love it. The more I played, the better I got, and the more I started playing with new ideas, and the more like sparring against my RL classmates it seemed.

How the HELL am I going to wait almost a month to play again?

youngger

Combat Length: You wont be a superhero, you are going to be hard pressed to if you think you are going to kill 5 players solo, if you are gangbanged you will die fast, if you are caught off guard you will die fast,

I killed 3 people at once during the pvp weekend beta

like 3 guys in a row a couple of times..

 if you play good hell yea you can take 2 at once

Electriceye

Originally posted by youngger


Combat Length: You wont be a superhero, you are going to be hard pressed to if you think you are going to kill 5 players solo, if you are gangbanged you will die fast, if you are caught off guard you will die fast,
I killed 3 people at once during the pvp weekend beta
like 3 guys in a row a couple of times..
 if you play good hell yea you can take 2 at once

Did u enjoy the pvp beta weekend? what u saw of the game?

kazson

Originally posted by Wharg0ul


well, the combos aren't the only thing that take practice. Dodging, momentum, attack angles, shielding, timing, opening up defenses....
GAWD I love it. The more I played, the better I got, and the more I started playing with new ideas, and the more like sparring against my RL classmates it seemed.
How the HELL am I going to wait almost a month to play again?

you make a GOOD POINT ! the whole weekend i was playing i didnt use the double key tap dodges or the active blocking....so much more to learn

youngger

Electric

Oh yes, The pvp mini games gave me a great idea of what combat system looks like and I LOVE IT!

I just can't wait for the game to come out..Liked the feats too..

My favorite Classes:  the barbarian & the assasin

The combos work out nicely..  I was fighting and laughing at the same time !!

somethimes it was really immersive..  but I didnt even play in a open world..

can't wait to play in a open world..enter the jungle.. make my way in & discover some ennemies on my way

lol

thanks to funcom & gamespot

 

Electriceye

Originally posted by youngger


Electric
Oh yes, The pvp mini games gave me a great idea of what combat system looks like and I LOVE IT!
I just can't wait for the game to come out..Liked the feats too..
My favorite Classes:  the barbarian & the assasin
The combos work out nicely..  I was fighting and laughing at the same time !!
somethimes it was really immersive..  but I didnt even play in a open world..
can't wait to play in a open world..enter the jungle.. make my way in & discover some ennemies on my way
lol
thanks to funcom & gamespot
 

Hey glad u enjoyed it!  

I agree combat looks and feels great. i think FC has at least accomplished the hardest part: making the game fun and enjoyable.

With this out of the way, there is no reason not to be optimistic about this game's chances.

Aragon100

Originally posted by kazson


this is a popular complaint i hear so after spending a entire weekend playing the hell out of the game im going to calm some of your fears,this combat system REALLY shines, no you CANT expect to bunny hop spamming all your best combos just not gonna happen, ill explain
Pacing: Firstly calm down, there is almost a "rythm" to combat, dont SPAM keys ! no matter have fast you hit a key you will only swing so fast, queue up your next combo know which keys to execute it be patient and "think" ahead, think about where your foe is going and not where he is
Set ups: all classes have what i call a "Set up" move, classes can do knockbacks,knockdowns,stuns,dazes,roots etc, these moves arent combos so they only take hitting a key to excute (ala WoW) so after doing a move like this you can pull off some of your harder combos.
Small Combos:  some combos are very easy to pull off in combat...my assassin had a nice dmg combo that was only press key then "w" and the move had a good deal of range as well so even if they move away it would still connect.
Mobile Combos: you cant run in a straight line and do combos however  you can strafe without breaking your combo and turn in circles...so for example if your foe was in front of you and you started the combo and he moved to the left, you could turn your charater to face him and not break the combo, as long as you dont move forward or backwards, Also remember if you cant do a combo because they are running around too much, your foe CANT either nor can they cast, be patient and wait for your opening, your basic attack moves arent weak/useless like other games "auto attacks"
Collsion: is awesome! i wish i could do this to druids in wow...another powerful tatic is a "Swarm" bascially if you see a healer/caster 2-3 people gang up and "box" them in so they cant run and then you can pull off combos very easy
The enivorment: archers use pillars,bushes to hide behind, soliders knock people off ledges, casters use your hide skill and wait in the wake so you dont get targetted as fast, rogues sneak through the guardian front lines, everyone talks abou AoC combos but combat has ALOT more to it
Killing Runners: so if a foe sprints off he is hard to catch, think of a rogue hitting sprint and you have the idea, you should prepare and save stunning combos or have bleeding effects to kill them as they run off, Another neat feature any class can attack a foe in the back to produce a "daze" effect slowing their movement
Debuffs: one word WOW! im very impressed by the effect debuffs have on a foe, decreasing your foes attackspeed,attack skilling, lowering resitances and armors acutally is EXTREMLEY noticeable, its not all about dmg moves, if you are smart you will have these moves ready
Combat Length: You wont be a superhero, you are going to be hard pressed to if you think you are going to kill 5 players solo, if you are gangbanged you will die fast, if you are caught off guard you will die fast, however 1 vs 1 combat last long enough to think plan and execute, 1 vs 2 will also give you enough time to either escape or CC etc. 1 vs 3 even with healing on you, most likely spells a quick death
Healing: so most MMOs have burst heals, AoC has some but they arent 1hp to full spells, some think healing is weak because they are used to that, healing is a edge thats it...its not a "IWIN" button if 2 teams 100% even matched the team with the smart healer will win everytime, think of heals as a buffer a delay of death so to speak, you arent helping your team if you stay in back and just heal, you are much better off staying mixing dmg with heals, Feats help in this respect, bear shamans get a melee dmg buff when they have a heal ticking on them, PoM for every heal they cast get a holy dmg attack bonus and the more Tempest of the set do dmg spells the stronger the heals, healers have begged for a less boring healing system you will NOT fall asleep at the keyboard playing a priest  
If you have any questions about combat let me know and ill answer, enjoy AoC ! see you on the 17th !
 

Here is a nice find from Darkfall Board where keeperofstars explains abit about AoC PvP -

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=53915&page=4

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=53915&page=5

If he is right it seems AoC PvP isnt skillful at all. And seems extremely boring to say the least.

Electriceye

Originally posted by Aragon100


 
Originally posted by kazson


this is a popular complaint i hear so after spending a entire weekend playing the hell out of the game im going to calm some of your fears,this combat system REALLY shines, no you CANT expect to bunny hop spamming all your best combos just not gonna happen, ill explain
Pacing: Firstly calm down, there is almost a "rythm" to combat, dont SPAM keys ! no matter have fast you hit a key you will only swing so fast, queue up your next combo know which keys to execute it be patient and "think" ahead, think about where your foe is going and not where he is
Set ups: all classes have what i call a "Set up" move, classes can do knockbacks,knockdowns,stuns,dazes,roots etc, these moves arent combos so they only take hitting a key to excute (ala WoW) so after doing a move like this you can pull off some of your harder combos.
Small Combos:  some combos are very easy to pull off in combat...my assassin had a nice dmg combo that was only press key then "w" and the move had a good deal of range as well so even if they move away it would still connect.
Mobile Combos: you cant run in a straight line and do combos however  you can strafe without breaking your combo and turn in circles...so for example if your foe was in front of you and you started the combo and he moved to the left, you could turn your charater to face him and not break the combo, as long as you dont move forward or backwards, Also remember if you cant do a combo because they are running around too much, your foe CANT either nor can they cast, be patient and wait for your opening, your basic attack moves arent weak/useless like other games "auto attacks"
Collsion: is awesome! i wish i could do this to druids in wow...another powerful tatic is a "Swarm" bascially if you see a healer/caster 2-3 people gang up and "box" them in so they cant run and then you can pull off combos very easy
The enivorment: archers use pillars,bushes to hide behind, soliders knock people off ledges, casters use your hide skill and wait in the wake so you dont get targetted as fast, rogues sneak through the guardian front lines, everyone talks abou AoC combos but combat has ALOT more to it
Killing Runners: so if a foe sprints off he is hard to catch, think of a rogue hitting sprint and you have the idea, you should prepare and save stunning combos or have bleeding effects to kill them as they run off, Another neat feature any class can attack a foe in the back to produce a "daze" effect slowing their movement
Debuffs: one word WOW! im very impressed by the effect debuffs have on a foe, decreasing your foes attackspeed,attack skilling, lowering resitances and armors acutally is EXTREMLEY noticeable, its not all about dmg moves, if you are smart you will have these moves ready
Combat Length: You wont be a superhero, you are going to be hard pressed to if you think you are going to kill 5 players solo, if you are gangbanged you will die fast, if you are caught off guard you will die fast, however 1 vs 1 combat last long enough to think plan and execute, 1 vs 2 will also give you enough time to either escape or CC etc. 1 vs 3 even with healing on you, most likely spells a quick death
Healing: so most MMOs have burst heals, AoC has some but they arent 1hp to full spells, some think healing is weak because they are used to that, healing is a edge thats it...its not a "IWIN" button if 2 teams 100% even matched the team with the smart healer will win everytime, think of heals as a buffer a delay of death so to speak, you arent helping your team if you stay in back and just heal, you are much better off staying mixing dmg with heals, Feats help in this respect, bear shamans get a melee dmg buff when they have a heal ticking on them, PoM for every heal they cast get a holy dmg attack bonus and the more Tempest of the set do dmg spells the stronger the heals, healers have begged for a less boring healing system you will NOT fall asleep at the keyboard playing a priest  
If you have any questions about combat let me know and ill answer, enjoy AoC ! see you on the 17th !
 

 

Here is a nice find from Darkfall Board where keeperofstars explains abit about AoC PvP -

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=53915&page=4

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=53915&page=5

If he is right it seems AoC PvP isnt skillful at all. And seems extremely boring to say the least.

It's not a question of right or wrong. It's all a matter of taste. This guy on the Darkfall forums (DF fanboi probably, might be mistaken cant be arsed to check ), he might not like the combat system, but judging by the mostly positive reviews, I'd say he's amongst the minority.