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mmorpg needs a newer fighting system....
blade55555
Member Posts: 100
Honestly every single MMO i'v seen so far is the same damn thing. you click, your character fights, you use your magic or w/e your class has. I think its time Some company gets a smart idea and changes the fighting.
When I say change fighting I mean where it takes a little bit of skill.
what I think would be cool is if they make a medieval game or whatever (pve and pvp) the fighting you can actually control your characters attacks and stuff.
What I mean is if you press a button your character will block the attack (of course there would have to be ways so that you can't jsu tsit there adn block all day)
The fighting should also be different. Like when you press the mouse button you swing your sword or shoot your bow.
Lets say your fighting a couple of guys. You do some sword attacks (with combos and what not) and block attacks.
In my opinion more people would be interested in an MMO like this because you have to actually do something more then send your character, right click on a monster and watch you take turns hitting eachother pretty much. It would really step MMO's up and I would almost garantee it that people would get alot more into it and have alot more fun then the MMO's of today.
My question is why has no company done this yet? Is it to hard? Are they just to lazy? I hope soon a company decides to step up teh fighting because as of right now MMO's are all the same pretty much.
Comments
Age of Conan ---> that way
http://community.ageofconan.com/wsp/conan/frontend.cgi?func=publish.show&template=content&func_id=2337&table=CONTENT
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Senhores da Guerra
Interesting I knew about Age of conan but I was just going to wait till an open free beta. I havn't read anything on their fighting so that link you gave me I did read.
At least this company is heading in the right direction. I will have to try this one out to see how good it is if it is like this I will definately subscribe and will prolly play it a lot more then i'v played any other mmo.
You know, I've been yammering endlessly about just this sort of thing ever since I got into MMOs. I would love to see an MMORPG that uses a combat system similar to games like, say, Devil May Cry, God of War, Ninja Gaiden... a combo-heavy, action and skill-based fighting system.
Take your typical fantasy MMORPG. You've got your team of a big guy with a sword, a healer lady wearing white because that's the healer dress code I suppose, a caster with a witch hat and wooden shoes for no good reason, and an elf archer who looks so smug that you just want to reach through the screen and slap him a few times. They go into battle against a small pack of somethings... orcs... goblins... let's say Orblins.
The Heavyset Swordsman leads the charge, casually cleaving the pair of leading Orblins off to one side mid-stride. The Elf and the Caster stay back and pick off different targets with arrows and magic respectively, and the healer tries not to get struck by a stray gust of wind, lest it kill her. The Swordsman would, if he's doing his job right, attract a lot of attention and likely the entire Orblin mob, but still be able to clean house and send the little green people flailing this way and that. Also, he'd ideally have an attack that would send the enemy skyward, where they could be picked off by one of his teammates in mid flight.
To get to the point, a system such as this would be absolutely amazing if done correctly, and could easily catapult a decent game into that fabled "WoW-Killer" level of goodness that many a game fails to reach. Furthermore, I simply refuse to believe that we do not have the technology for it to be pulled off if reasonable effort is put into it.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Playing: Nothing
Played: Champions Online, CoX, STO, PSO, WoW, lots of free-to-play crap
Looking Forward To: DC Universe Online, Blade and Soul
No chance majority of players these days want a complicated combat system that ask for skill,thinking and concentration.
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so you basically want an mmoArpg
yeah...it will be a while before it happens
TCoS has a better format than AoC after what the op has said. basically a shooter with swords, arrows, magic, and normal MMO stuff like quests.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
It will be interesting when we finally start to see some good, solid, MMOFPS games. Who knows when it will happen, but its pretty much inevitable.
Hey, how about you come up with a newer internet first.
MMOs will always be dependent on the internet(duh) so the more real time the action the more lag will affect the gameplay.
Developers use the "Everquest" system of combat because it works well with 56k modem internet.
Your Action MMO idea would work in Korea(standardized high speed) but find a limited audience in the US and Europe where 56k internet is being used by more than half the population.
too
damn
right.
And yeah AoC promises this, hopefully..
Edit: I don't know why simply multiplayer persistant games aren't more popular. NWN kinda tapped into this, but it would be good to tap more. I mean (lets say) only 100/200 people at a time on a server but with a lot more advanced tech so as that real-time actions are available is appealling to me. At the moment I look at a mmo video and it just looks maybe nerdastic for some reason I can't explain.(whether all games look like this from a third-person perspective I don't know-though I didn't think so)
Yes will AoC by the sound of it is headed in the right direction.
Loooks pretty cool i'll definately give it a go.
Hopefully it just goes uphill from here and the fighting can get even better grats to Funcom for trying something different.
Dungeons and dragons online tried that. It worked well enough but apparently it's not that important a feature since the game is barely alive.
You obviously haven't tried it in a long time. Post server merge (months ago), all the servers are very crowded and Turbine continues to pump new content into the game at no additional charge (more than doubled since launch already).
As mentioned before, latency/lag effects would kill such a system. This would especially be true in PvP.
I would like to see a change in the MMO battle system though. I think it would work better if it leaned more toward player strategy, instead of quick reflexes and skill.
As implied from another poster, the current formula dictates a particular style of play/groups. I want to see more games break the holy trinity combination and allow more flexibility for players and teams.
~I<~
well get a new connection... I don't think connection would be to big of a problem.
As for breaking the holy trinity, I agree, lets be realistic here. How are you going to keep an enemy's attention by simply insulting him, yelling, or breaking his armor? While friends blast him with shadow, fire, ice, light, whatever...if i were the enemy, I'd go for THEM first. That's why I want raids to have dozens of sentient mobs who don't focus on one target...they go after anyone. Thus, each class should have a self-heal ability and be able to do enough DPS to survive. No more tanks, no more dedicated healers (there should be a class that can heal better than others, but no Paladins with Divine Shield), and no more "LF Tank/Healer!!!!" for an hour. But that's a bit off topic eh? Sorry
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
MMOs are special, but that doesn't mean a more advanced system can't be easily done.
Let's talk about the most obvious failure in trying to do this:
Target only based systems like 99% of the MMOs are ok, but like the OP said, they lack any skill. I personally remember Jedi Academy on the Xbox and the skill level needed to play the game in comparison to SWG. This type of realtime combat has yet to come to an MMO effectively.
What CAN be done to start the evolution.
A hybrid targeting/skill attack system could be implemented. So that you can lock on the enemy you want, and then use skill to target their body in different places and use different moves on them. This solves the problem with having 100 people in your way to screw up targeting, as you lock on the enemy, but they you can sill use tactics, personal aiming accuracy, and skilled attacks on the the person that is locked on. This would give you a Halo or Jedi Academy experience, but you have to target your character first. So in halo terms, think of it like this, target enemy before shooting them in the head, that way 100 idiots running in front of you won't disrupt your attack.
Tabula Rasa is an engage only free fight system, as once you acquire the target, you can't use X move on target's head or X move on target's leg, and accuracy is also artificial.
Some games have added in some 'movement' or realtime mechanisms to help immerse people. Even LoTRO lets players fight or do combat while in motion, but at a damage/accuracy reduction if they are moving. This has problems if the client/server model is not designed to compensate for lag, which many older MMOs are not.
The additional aspect to this mechanic is a 'trained skill' system, as you work on your skills and pick YOUR skills you work to improve them, as some games have done in the past that doesn't seem to be prominent in today's MMOs. This was the single biggest factor of the hate of the SWG NGE, as it took a massive skill system and turned everyone into a combat clone with a different profession name. Everyone does the same effective damage, etc etc.
Class based MMOs can even implement a strong skill based system of play, so that if you are a freaking Mage, you can work on a specific area of Mage skills and improve them without a Level system.
Level/Class systems are too artificial, as you have too much information, and it also take a bit more programming to scale the combat, although skill systems take more thought and programming to implment initially.
Non-scaled combat is simple, if you attack NPC X, you do damage based on your skill and are rewarded the same XP as if you were a new player and it took you 20 hits to kill the NPC, and they get the same amount of XP. The difference is that the player that can one hit kill the NPC needs 1,000,000 XP to get better at using that attack or skill, where the new player needs only 100 XP to get better and advanced. So getting 50XP from the creature is worthless to higher skill players as the XP is too low and low level players it is a lot.
This also allows the game to have a consistent play and grouping no matter what level or skill level players have. As the higher skill players can play with new players and not ruin their XP or have to gimp down to play with them. And they can also take lower level players on higher end content, as they can buff or outfit the new players with comperable armor to survive, even if their XP is a capped percentage or scaling percentage.
Anyone, just some quick thoughts on where MMOs should be going, and sadly I don't see much out there willing to tackle the needs of players. If a good skill based game came along, they would suck all the SWG players from pre-cu days immediately almost, and that 500,000 starting customer base.
blade55555 - "well get a new connection... I don't think connection would be to big of a problem."
You want to pay for it? No? Didn't think so. Also, nice way to be completely wrong. Your internet connection would not be a problem with a real time combat game featuring possibly hundreds of people in the same area?
Ascension08 - "That's why I want raids to have dozens of sentient mobs who don't focus on one target...they go after anyonne"
Wow, sounds terrible. Raid bosses would simply degenerate into anarchy as people try to run from the boss and die in droves. If you want to be "realistic here" then a 100' tall giant with fists the size of cows would kill anyone, be they wearing plate or cloth, in 1 hit.
ummm lol for starters its not like you need a very badass connection to not lag... I have cable (lowest you can get) and it runs FAST. Its not even that much money and i never lag... If anything the lag would be by a computer which not all people have good ones (I do thankfully :P). But again if your complaining because of connection then get a new one its not that much to get a good connection...
#1) Cable is one of the fastest and lowest latency consumer grade connections available. There are people using dialup, wireless towers, bad DSL, etc. You have an 'above average connection'.
Not everyone has high speed connection options. There are tons are communities in the US, and people that live just a bit out of the main area of town that cannot get DSL or Cable, and have to use Dial Up. I even have a friend (living in an expensive neighborhood) that has been paying $200 a month for dual 64k ISDN connection, because there is nothing else available.
So don't make such simple assumptions.
#2) Network Lag is not necessarily dependent on the 'customer's connection'. 90% of the time, it is the round trip from the other clients to the server and the server's response. This is based on a lot of factors, for example: the size of the packet of information that is being shoved around from client to server to client, etc. So even if you have the 'best' connection in the world, if people in the area have crap or low latency connections, this can also affect you, based on the MMO server technology the game company is using.
Even with 100 peopl in an area though, a dial-up user can STILL survive. SWG pre-cu had a lot MORE data being shoved to the client, and it was designed for dial-up packet sizes. And people with dial up played well because of server lag compensation, etc.
So the person above talking about having a bad conneciton being a problem, it doesn't have to be. The worest senerio for them would be they wouldn't see the exact face or hair color, etc of the characters when in a super large group instantly, and this information would have to stream in during play for everyone's specifics to come into focus.
As for doing realtime combat with a locked target, this would be easy even on dial-up. And any serious MMO today should consider dial-up user server compensation if needed in coding. The data chunks are not the biggest problem, but the latency would be the biggest problem, and this should be coded for as well, since many users will soon be using Cellular based internet devices to access the internent for MMO play. (I was using 3G Verizon 3 years ago to play SWG for example).
Automated as much as possible is what games are moving towards. Automation is the key, gone are the days of elaborate key combinations and timed shortcuts. Why learn to play the game when the game can play itself?
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Are there really as much dial up connections around nowadays? I cant believe it almost.. because where i live 1mbit/s DSL is really everywhere available.. and most of the ppl have 8mbit or 16mbit nowadays...
the main reason is because of lag and all that. but i agree we need a new system. of course there is always this game called age of conan coming out with a new combat system. maybe we should try that out.
I like First Person Shooter games, but I don't see what this has to do with MMORPGs.
Both games are fun. If you want player skill in combat, play an FPS.
Theres plenty of room in the genre for a solid chunk of MMOFPS. Im amazed that some are still on dial up...which sucks, but no one is saying that the entire genre has to be MMOFPS.
Combine the above with a combat system like that of Jedi Outcast/Jedi Academy, with some additions to combat skills, and you have yourself a damn good new game.
And to the people saying there are MMORPG games, then there are FPS games, and why not go play one or the other if you want that type of game.....Well why can't those of us have a game that combines the two. You can have the best of both worlds by combining these 2 genres of games. This doesn't mean everyone will play them, but not everyone plays MMORPG or FPS games at the moment either. I can probably put a pretty safe wager though that there a re a good amount of people (like myself) that would like to see these 2 genres combined to create one badass game.