The problem with your line of thought is that you don't know how the healers work in AoC. The healing does not revolve around looking bars. The majority of the healing comes from HoTs and keeping them up. Once you throw your HoT at your team you either a. sit doing nothing or b. start doing damage. The difference between the PoM and the rest of the priests is that the PoM does more damage the more his heals, heal. While the rest cast more powerful heals the more damage they do. The rest of the time is divided between damage and utility. My guess is that you will find healers disappointing if you try to approach them as "box fillers". The same thing holds true for the soldier archetypes. The one thing that you need to keep in mind is that the Guardian and the POM are just the classes that play similarly to what people would expect from a tank and a healer coming from other games. And that's about it really. As for the min-maxers. I'm sure they will appear at some point. They always do. They are like the roaches that suck all the fun, drain the innovation and kill all the surprises. They will try to dictate the way the game should be played and their word will be the rule of which all sheep will be measured. You can't do much about them besides realizing that their way is not the only way. Ignoring them works too.
I guess i could write it down 10.000 times and nobody would undertsand it. But MMO s without decay and with a raid item progression have no hope for sustaining endgame fun. They have no real future. Quote me on that in summer 2009 if you like.
either im not geting ur point or ur saying that game with item progresion.. is hopeless game.. i ask you why you play mmo ? go play cs/tf2/cod4 whateva fps you want
yet to see any game who doesnt envolve around character growth.. and i hope i never will.
okey... i ll try to explain.
Currently we got the mainstream like EQ2 , WOW, LotRo and maybe even Vanguard. Those games have a linear item progression. You get better and better and better items until you have the best available. If you achived this goal before the next expansion was released and the level cap was raised your item progression comes to a halt. Since your fun is item progression the game cant offer you any fun anymore. See my text above. No sustaining fun. Its linear from A to B and ends at B. Game over.
Ok, now to the esoteric but universal law of cycles
Our universe is based on it and it works well.
Item progression then is no longer the hunt for the best. Its the hunt to just have any items. If you got owned in EVE your ships is blasted to pieces. You have to buy a new one. If you are out of money then you wont have a ship. This is circular item progression. Creation and desintegration. Live and let die
In a world of deacy you will use your skills (skill like in combos, feats) much more then your items. You will respect you rare katana and only use it if you really need it. On common enemies you will probably just use a iron sword. You will have to take responsibility about your equipment. Once your rare katana is broken you will have the item progression by just getting a new one.
This is the natural way of everything existing in this universe. Having gravity in a game but refusing to follow the natural cycles is s shortsigthened decission. A fun killer and born to cause stagnation.
Was trying to figure out the balance of the groups. I guess in the smaller instances and so on most soldiers can tank, but when it comes to high end stuff I take it you will need a guardian tank and a priest of mithra in them. Or in the high end raiding.
What you guys belive?
The classes are like tools for a carpenter. You just need the right tools for the job. So it depends on what you need to do.
Hopefully there will be a good balance of what classes are needed in groups. As seen in many games some classes will struggle just to get a spot in a group.
Going to save this poll when we get close to release date. And then in a year, see how it turned out
Can be really fun to save some old threads where thoughts about the future of the game and such are discussed and see how it turned out. And even better is when you have some fanboi kiddies who demands nude chars and scream at anyone who say anything that can be taken negativly and see how their whines, eh sorry, comments look in a year.
Anyone know if they going to increase the level cap in open beta from the current 13 soon?
I doubt they will, they have Closed Beta testers for the 13-80 stuff. Most people use Open Beta to decide on whether or not they just want to play the game not to actually test and submit bug reports. There's not much point allowing the Open Beta testers past a certain point other than to satisfy their curiosity.
Anyone know if they going to increase the level cap in open beta from the current 13 soon?
I doubt they will, they have Closed Beta testers for the 13-80 stuff. Most people use Open Beta to decide on whether or not they just want to play the game not to actually test and submit bug reports. There's not much point allowing the Open Beta testers past a certain point other than to satisfy their curiosity.
Im sending in reports after each session I do
Well, nm what they do, I hope they work on the performance part the most.
Guardian is a fun class i concluded in my 2 days testing now. Like it a lot, sadly tho only 13 levels to test.
Ditto. I'm going to roll up the other 2 tanks and see how they compare. End result being the one I have the most fun with and a mage to play 'off time' with.
Guardian is a fun class i concluded in my 2 days testing now. Like it a lot, sadly tho only 13 levels to test.
Ditto. I'm going to roll up the other 2 tanks and see how they compare. End result being the one I have the most fun with and a mage to play 'off time' with.
Next to try is the DT, should be interesting. I have not tested guardian or crusader yet, but a lot of ppl giving the soldiers good feedback, just like you two here above
all preists really are hybrids dude, only cuz he has "Priest" in his name doesnt make him the best healer, he is still a hybrid of healing/cc, every healer has their strenghts and weaknesses. gotta think out of WoW terms cuz these guys re invented everything
same with the soldiers, guardian can take more physical dmg, but DT can take more spell dmg and he AOE tanks instead of physical hits, Conq does a bit of both.
Um...there were games that had various types of hybrids and didn't rely on the holy trinity long before AoC came along dude!
Im finding it amazing how many people seem to think this game and that game (as in none in particular) are the "inventors" of concepts that have been around for some time.
To think that any game with tiered progression raiding will not have certain classes with certain builds that are preferential for certain duties is foolish, even with hybrids you will see guilds that build their raids with x of this class, y of that class, etc... It always comes down to efficiency for serious raiders.
Here, i will repost this again for you as you seem to have missed it the first 5 times. Judging by your responce.
"gotta think out of WoW terms cuz these guys re invented everything"
and LOL at "serious raiders". I hope you know this is mostly a PvP game.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
all preists really are hybrids dude, only cuz he has "Priest" in his name doesnt make him the best healer, he is still a hybrid of healing/cc, every healer has their strenghts and weaknesses. gotta think out of WoW terms cuz these guys re invented everything
same with the soldiers, guardian can take more physical dmg, but DT can take more spell dmg and he AOE tanks instead of physical hits, Conq does a bit of both.
Um...there were games that had various types of hybrids and didn't rely on the holy trinity long before AoC came along dude!
Im finding it amazing how many people seem to think this game and that game (as in none in particular) are the "inventors" of concepts that have been around for some time.
To think that any game with tiered progression raiding will not have certain classes with certain builds that are preferential for certain duties is foolish, even with hybrids you will see guilds that build their raids with x of this class, y of that class, etc... It always comes down to efficiency for serious raiders.
Here, i will repost this again for you as you seem to have missed it the first 5 times. Judging by your responce.
"gotta think out of WoW terms cuz these guys re invented everything"
and LOL at "serious raiders". I hope you know this is mostly a PvP game.
LOL at mostly a PVP game. You do know this is mostly a PVE raid game right?
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
all preists really are hybrids dude, only cuz he has "Priest" in his name doesnt make him the best healer, he is still a hybrid of healing/cc, every healer has their strenghts and weaknesses. gotta think out of WoW terms cuz these guys re invented everything
same with the soldiers, guardian can take more physical dmg, but DT can take more spell dmg and he AOE tanks instead of physical hits, Conq does a bit of both.
Um...there were games that had various types of hybrids and didn't rely on the holy trinity long before AoC came along dude!
Im finding it amazing how many people seem to think this game and that game (as in none in particular) are the "inventors" of concepts that have been around for some time.
To think that any game with tiered progression raiding will not have certain classes with certain builds that are preferential for certain duties is foolish, even with hybrids you will see guilds that build their raids with x of this class, y of that class, etc... It always comes down to efficiency for serious raiders.
Here, i will repost this again for you as you seem to have missed it the first 5 times. Judging by your responce.
"gotta think out of WoW terms cuz these guys re invented everything"
and LOL at "serious raiders". I hope you know this is mostly a PvP game.
LOL at mostly a PVP game. You do know this is mostly a PVE raid game right?
Whatever, I’m sure it has stuff for everyone. But i think anyone looking would realize the game really does center on PvP.
Oh, and Raiders never were, and never will be the core audiance for MMO's.
From the AOC offical page....
Massive Player Versus Player Combat
Band together with friends and guildmates to capture powerful battlekeeps and towers for precious resources or work for cold, hard currency as a mercenary, fighting for the prettiest face or highest bidder!
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
all preists really are hybrids dude, only cuz he has "Priest" in his name doesnt make him the best healer, he is still a hybrid of healing/cc, every healer has their strenghts and weaknesses. gotta think out of WoW terms cuz these guys re invented everything
same with the soldiers, guardian can take more physical dmg, but DT can take more spell dmg and he AOE tanks instead of physical hits, Conq does a bit of both.
Um...there were games that had various types of hybrids and didn't rely on the holy trinity long before AoC came along dude!
Im finding it amazing how many people seem to think this game and that game (as in none in particular) are the "inventors" of concepts that have been around for some time.
To think that any game with tiered progression raiding will not have certain classes with certain builds that are preferential for certain duties is foolish, even with hybrids you will see guilds that build their raids with x of this class, y of that class, etc... It always comes down to efficiency for serious raiders.
Here, i will repost this again for you as you seem to have missed it the first 5 times. Judging by your responce.
"gotta think out of WoW terms cuz these guys re invented everything"
and LOL at "serious raiders". I hope you know this is mostly a PvP game.
LOL at mostly a PVP game. You do know this is mostly a PVE raid game right?
Whatever, I’m sure it has stuff for everyone. But i think anyone looking would realize the game really does center on PvP.
Oh, and Raiders never were, and never will be the core audiance for MMO's.
From the AOC offical page....
Massive Player Versus Player Combat
Band together with friends and guildmates to capture powerful battlekeeps and towers for precious resources or work for cold, hard currency as a mercenary, fighting for the prettiest face or highest bidder!
The game is PvP in my opinion, I will although be focusing on making my guardian as tank strong as possible. I am hoping that it will also help my future guild by me standing up front taking hits and blocking stuff that would be aimed on my casters, healers and ranged dps. Beeing the one who jumps infront of that poor ranger who getting bolted and so on. I am thinking that they will have to drop me before they can move on, and the more hits they have to throw on me while attacking the more time for my dps to kill them.
Prolly gonna die a lot in pvp, but thats part of my char and my playstyle. I sacrifice myself so the better players can get more time doing their thing.
By looking at the different classes, they tend to follow similar archtypes of mage, rogue, healer, and fighter, but with a twist: each one does so in the scope of the combat system to varying degrees (fighters most reliant on the combo system, most mages least reliant on the combo system). What I find is that the over all style of game play won't change much from the holy trinity, save for the fact that you can mix up tactics unlike before.
By looking at the different classes, they tend to follow similar archtypes of mage, rogue, healer, and fighter, but with a twist: each one does so in the scope of the combat system to varying degrees (fighters most reliant on the combo system, most mages least reliant on the combo system). What I find is that the over all style of game play won't change much from the holy trinity, save for the fact that you can mix up tactics unlike before.
-- Brede
The collision during combat will make the tactics more important, and giving us jarheads up front a chance to more than running after rogues who running into the healer lines or mages tearing havoc.
well, so far in beta me as guardian and wife as pom is working great. we still working on our teamwork and how to setup our fights, and need to learn how to work better together in pvp.
I dont think there is much diffrence between the 3 tanking classes and the 3 healing classes. Guardian is probably abit stronger with its best tanking spec compared to others. Dunno how POM is atm cause it has changed alot since I played mine.
I dont think there is much diffrence between the 3 tanking classes and the 3 healing classes. Guardian is probably abit stronger with its best tanking spec compared to others. Dunno how POM is atm cause it has changed alot since I played mine.
From my experience and how I put my spec i notice a clear difference between my guardian and other soldier types when it comes to tanking. And I think it will be even bigger the higher you get in levels.
Comments
i agree
either im not geting ur point or ur saying that game with item progresion.. is hopeless game.. i ask you why you play mmo ? go play cs/tf2/cod4 whateva fps you want
yet to see any game who doesnt envolve around character growth.. and i hope i never will.
okey... i ll try to explain.
Currently we got the mainstream like EQ2 , WOW, LotRo and maybe even Vanguard. Those games have a linear item progression. You get better and better and better items until you have the best available. If you achived this goal before the next expansion was released and the level cap was raised your item progression comes to a halt. Since your fun is item progression the game cant offer you any fun anymore. See my text above. No sustaining fun. Its linear from A to B and ends at B. Game over.
Ok, now to the esoteric but universal law of cycles
Our universe is based on it and it works well.
Item progression then is no longer the hunt for the best. Its the hunt to just have any items. If you got owned in EVE your ships is blasted to pieces. You have to buy a new one. If you are out of money then you wont have a ship. This is circular item progression. Creation and desintegration. Live and let die
In a world of deacy you will use your skills (skill like in combos, feats) much more then your items. You will respect you rare katana and only use it if you really need it. On common enemies you will probably just use a iron sword. You will have to take responsibility about your equipment. Once your rare katana is broken you will have the item progression by just getting a new one.
This is the natural way of everything existing in this universe. Having gravity in a game but refusing to follow the natural cycles is s shortsigthened decission. A fun killer and born to cause stagnation.
I hope they make guardians a must for any group. I like beeing wanted
The tank that is born to tank!
Think prolly guardian and priest of mithra will be optimal in most groups, but not all.
But dont think you can go wrong with them if you say so and they can prolly balance out others in group who are not as strong.
There can be only one
The classes are like tools for a carpenter. You just need the right tools for the job. So it depends on what you need to do.
Hopefully there will be a good balance of what classes are needed in groups. As seen in many games some classes will struggle just to get a spot in a group.
Going to save this poll when we get close to release date. And then in a year, see how it turned out
Can be really fun to save some old threads where thoughts about the future of the game and such are discussed and see how it turned out. And even better is when you have some fanboi kiddies who demands nude chars and scream at anyone who say anything that can be taken negativly and see how their whines, eh sorry, comments look in a year.
Guardian is a fun class i concluded in my 2 days testing now. Like it a lot, sadly tho only 13 levels to test.
Anyone know if they going to increase the level cap in open beta from the current 13 soon?
I doubt they will, they have Closed Beta testers for the 13-80 stuff. Most people use Open Beta to decide on whether or not they just want to play the game not to actually test and submit bug reports. There's not much point allowing the Open Beta testers past a certain point other than to satisfy their curiosity.
I doubt they will, they have Closed Beta testers for the 13-80 stuff. Most people use Open Beta to decide on whether or not they just want to play the game not to actually test and submit bug reports. There's not much point allowing the Open Beta testers past a certain point other than to satisfy their curiosity.
Im sending in reports after each session I do
Well, nm what they do, I hope they work on the performance part the most.
Ditto. I'm going to roll up the other 2 tanks and see how they compare. End result being the one I have the most fun with and a mage to play 'off time' with.
Any info on the guardians you guys can share would be great
The tank that is born to tank!
Ditto. I'm going to roll up the other 2 tanks and see how they compare. End result being the one I have the most fun with and a mage to play 'off time' with.
Next to try is the DT, should be interesting. I have not tested guardian or crusader yet, but a lot of ppl giving the soldiers good feedback, just like you two here above
Aw, no win in beta contest this time either. Hopefully next time! want to test the guardian out!
The tank that is born to tank!
Um...there were games that had various types of hybrids and didn't rely on the holy trinity long before AoC came along dude!
Im finding it amazing how many people seem to think this game and that game (as in none in particular) are the "inventors" of concepts that have been around for some time.
To think that any game with tiered progression raiding will not have certain classes with certain builds that are preferential for certain duties is foolish, even with hybrids you will see guilds that build their raids with x of this class, y of that class, etc... It always comes down to efficiency for serious raiders.
Here, i will repost this again for you as you seem to have missed it the first 5 times. Judging by your responce.
"gotta think out of WoW terms cuz these guys re invented everything"
and LOL at "serious raiders". I hope you know this is mostly a PvP game.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Um...there were games that had various types of hybrids and didn't rely on the holy trinity long before AoC came along dude!
Im finding it amazing how many people seem to think this game and that game (as in none in particular) are the "inventors" of concepts that have been around for some time.
To think that any game with tiered progression raiding will not have certain classes with certain builds that are preferential for certain duties is foolish, even with hybrids you will see guilds that build their raids with x of this class, y of that class, etc... It always comes down to efficiency for serious raiders.
Here, i will repost this again for you as you seem to have missed it the first 5 times. Judging by your responce.
"gotta think out of WoW terms cuz these guys re invented everything"
and LOL at "serious raiders". I hope you know this is mostly a PvP game.
LOL at mostly a PVP game. You do know this is mostly a PVE raid game right?
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Um...there were games that had various types of hybrids and didn't rely on the holy trinity long before AoC came along dude!
Im finding it amazing how many people seem to think this game and that game (as in none in particular) are the "inventors" of concepts that have been around for some time.
To think that any game with tiered progression raiding will not have certain classes with certain builds that are preferential for certain duties is foolish, even with hybrids you will see guilds that build their raids with x of this class, y of that class, etc... It always comes down to efficiency for serious raiders.
Here, i will repost this again for you as you seem to have missed it the first 5 times. Judging by your responce.
"gotta think out of WoW terms cuz these guys re invented everything"
and LOL at "serious raiders". I hope you know this is mostly a PvP game.
LOL at mostly a PVP game. You do know this is mostly a PVE raid game right?
Whatever, I’m sure it has stuff for everyone. But i think anyone looking would realize the game really does center on PvP.
Oh, and Raiders never were, and never will be the core audiance for MMO's.
From the AOC offical page....
Massive Player Versus Player Combat
Band together with friends and guildmates to capture powerful battlekeeps and towers for precious resources or work for cold, hard currency as a mercenary, fighting for the prettiest face or highest bidder!
Further Reading:
Player Versus Player Siege Warfare
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Um...there were games that had various types of hybrids and didn't rely on the holy trinity long before AoC came along dude!
Im finding it amazing how many people seem to think this game and that game (as in none in particular) are the "inventors" of concepts that have been around for some time.
To think that any game with tiered progression raiding will not have certain classes with certain builds that are preferential for certain duties is foolish, even with hybrids you will see guilds that build their raids with x of this class, y of that class, etc... It always comes down to efficiency for serious raiders.
Here, i will repost this again for you as you seem to have missed it the first 5 times. Judging by your responce.
"gotta think out of WoW terms cuz these guys re invented everything"
and LOL at "serious raiders". I hope you know this is mostly a PvP game.
LOL at mostly a PVP game. You do know this is mostly a PVE raid game right?
Whatever, I’m sure it has stuff for everyone. But i think anyone looking would realize the game really does center on PvP.
Oh, and Raiders never were, and never will be the core audiance for MMO's.
From the AOC offical page....
Massive Player Versus Player Combat
Band together with friends and guildmates to capture powerful battlekeeps and towers for precious resources or work for cold, hard currency as a mercenary, fighting for the prettiest face or highest bidder!
Further Reading:
Player Versus Player Siege Warfare
The game is PvP in my opinion, I will although be focusing on making my guardian as tank strong as possible. I am hoping that it will also help my future guild by me standing up front taking hits and blocking stuff that would be aimed on my casters, healers and ranged dps. Beeing the one who jumps infront of that poor ranger who getting bolted and so on. I am thinking that they will have to drop me before they can move on, and the more hits they have to throw on me while attacking the more time for my dps to kill them.
Prolly gonna die a lot in pvp, but thats part of my char and my playstyle. I sacrifice myself so the better players can get more time doing their thing.
The tank that is born to tank!
By looking at the different classes, they tend to follow similar archtypes of mage, rogue, healer, and fighter, but with a twist: each one does so in the scope of the combat system to varying degrees (fighters most reliant on the combo system, most mages least reliant on the combo system). What I find is that the over all style of game play won't change much from the holy trinity, save for the fact that you can mix up tactics unlike before.
-- Brede
The collision during combat will make the tactics more important, and giving us jarheads up front a chance to more than running after rogues who running into the healer lines or mages tearing havoc.
The tank that is born to tank!
We will soon know when the levels are turned free in the open beta how the classes balances out. going to be great!
well, so far in beta me as guardian and wife as pom is working great. we still working on our teamwork and how to setup our fights, and need to learn how to work better together in pvp.
I dont think there is much diffrence between the 3 tanking classes and the 3 healing classes. Guardian is probably abit stronger with its best tanking spec compared to others. Dunno how POM is atm cause it has changed alot since I played mine.
From my experience and how I put my spec i notice a clear difference between my guardian and other soldier types when it comes to tanking. And I think it will be even bigger the higher you get in levels.
The tank that is born to tank!