I find it interesting that more people tend to associate EQ with fond memories than any other MMO, myself included. They really did hit upon a magical formula and did back before anyone else (save perhaps UO). I wonder, will people be longing for the good old days of WoW when its well past it's prime?
The real question is: why is this unique to the MMO genre? You might see this arguement in other genres, but not to this extent. My guess, would have to be that other genres are much more diverse, with many more quality games.
You can never replace that "first" experience, in anything you do in life. What makes "first" experiences magical is that they usher in new experiences, and you cannot have a new experience again of the same kind. I suggest stop looking for it. You'll be missing out on a lot of exciting things trying to recreate what can never be recreated.
That means we are still wanting to play Pong? or the first Flight Simulator? or The Rise of The Triad?
If there is a real improvement the "first" feeling stays there, as a memory, and you go on with new experiences.
But, when things go downhill, then the "first" experience remains as the best one, not because it was the first, but because it was just that, the best, because it was the best game. Or lover
Originally posted by altairzq That means we are still wanting to play Pong? or the first Flight Simulator? or The Rise of The Triad?
That's a specious argument. Pong is not even remotely the same kind of game.
The comparison brought up in the original post was from MMOG to MMOG, and that's where the "first" analogies spring from? Trying to amplify the point back to the origins of electronic gaming is foolishness.
That means we are still wanting to play Pong? or the first Flight Simulator? or The Rise of The Triad?
That's a specious argument. Pong is not even remotely the same kind of game.
The comparison brought up in the original post was from MMOG to MMOG, and that's where the "first" analogies spring from? Trying to amplify the point back to the origins of electronic gaming is foolishness.
I will explain to you, I'm not comparing Pong to WOW.
If the first kiss is the explanation, Flight Sim enthusiasts would be saying that the first Flight Simulator was the best. Or Flight Simulator 95 if that was their first one, and the rest crap. FPS enthusiasts would be saying that ROTT was the best one and the rest crap.
It's not the case, ROTT and Doom were great back then, but FPS that appeared afterwards were amazing. The first Flight Simulator you played was great, but FS2004 was better, and probably FSX too (haven't played it).
This is not the case with EQ. EQ was great, and the MMOS we have now are crap compared to it.
Originally posted by altairzq Originally posted by altairzq That means we are still wanting to play Pong?
I will explain to you, I'm not comparing Pong to WOW.
You contradict yourself.
Please feel free to make a salient point...but try to avoid the exaggerations that defuse your own argument. They come off as platitudes, and distract from your primary point.
Originally posted by safwd And for the age old "First Kiss" theory again. First kiss does have some merit, im sure people do look foundly on their first MMO, unless that MMO was The Realms, or Horizons, or Dark and Light, or some other MMO that was not very good. But that certainly isnt all of it.Do i remember the first time i had sex? Of course, but i have had much better sex since then. Do i remember my first kiss? Of course, but i have had much better kisses since then. The difference is, i remember my first MMO (which was EQ) but i have not had a better MMO since then. My view is not jaded because it was my first or my view would also be jaded about my first kiss. I hope that the First Kiss theory is not true because if that is the whole reason that i have not really liked a game since EQ then i guess i am done with MMOs.
I look fondly at the experiences I had with other players in my first MMO, but not necessarily fondly to the combat mechanics, gimpiness, and flaws of it. The merits of MMOs isn't often found in the game itself, but in the players.
I find it interesting that more people tend to associate EQ with fond memories than any other MMO, myself included. They really did hit upon a magical formula and did back before anyone else (save perhaps UO). I wonder, will people be longing for the good old days of WoW when its well past it's prime?
QFT
My Gnomes Holy Trinity in EQ was "Engulfing Darkness, Fear, DotDOTDOT!". I truly miss my Ice Giants.!! I miss my 8 bags of Fine weapons you hired a lowbie to mule for! I miss Hill Giants chasing me down as my pet wacked on em! I miss my pets laughter! Nothing more exhilirating than a skeleton skull giving out such a wonderfully, ghastly, hellish but loving laugh! I miss the trains!! I miss getting pretty things and decorations because some poor goodie lost his corpse deep in some evil infested place!
I miss killing Holly Windstalker!! I miss going to Freeport and smacking a guard or two!
These are just a few things I miss.There will never be a game like EQ. But I am sure there will be a game eventually that will bring that first time enjoyment! I also know that some may actually have fun with a different game that was just like my EQ!
Fellow folks of the eq memorys you fail to mention why we all so loveed the game. Immersion!
yes thats right name one game that has come out since eq /ac that had immersion?
they stopped making them long ago when graphics and game longetivity became the issue not immersion.
anytime there are instances and quest based leveling there is a loss of immersion.
anytime you have click travel there is loss of immersion
anytime you have lack of good story line or poor implimentation of story lineyou have loss of immersion.
wow comes very close to having awsome immersion that i would say even rivals eq yet they fall short because there are so many younger players who dont know how to play along.
there will never be another everquest as long as games continue to reward you for quests and not for grinding.
Some lead and some follow I prefer to stand beside!
Fellow folks of the eq memorys you fail to mention why we all so loveed the game. Immersion! yes thats right name one game that has come out since eq /ac that had immersion? they stopped making them long ago when graphics and game longetivity became the issue not immersion. anytime there are instances and quest based leveling there is a loss of immersion. anytime you have click travel there is loss of immersion anytime you have lack of good story line or poor implimentation of story lineyou have loss of immersion. wow comes very close to having awsome immersion that i would say even rivals eq yet they fall short because there are so many younger players who dont know how to play along. there will never be another everquest as long as games continue to reward you for quests and not for grinding.
I am with you on this.
I was reading the AOC forum and someone said that they did not feel immersion in AOC because of the loading screens. And that you can feel immersed (is that a word) with loading screens.
Yet, i also feel EQ has had the most immersion of any game i have played, and it had loading screens.
And dont forget, you also need meaning faction and a meaningful diety system. Plus it helps to have all those nasty time sinks like languages, spell components, actually looking at a spell book, etc etc.
First kiss does have some merit, im sure people do look foundly on their first MMO, unless that MMO was The Realms, or Horizons, or Dark and Light, or some other MMO that was not very good. But that certainly isnt all of it.
Do i remember the first time i had sex? Of course, but i have had much better sex since then.
Do i remember my first kiss? Of course, but i have had much better kisses since then.
The difference is, i remember my first MMO (which was EQ) but i have not had a better MMO since then.
My view is not jaded because it was my first or my view would also be jaded about my first kiss.
I hope that the First Kiss theory is not true because if that is the whole reason that i have not really liked a game since EQ then i guess i am done with MMOs.
I look fondly at the experiences I had with other players in my first MMO, but not necessarily fondly to the combat mechanics, gimpiness, and flaws of it. The merits of MMOs isn't often found in the game itself, but in the players.
-- Brede
I actually do look fondly back on the mechanics of EQ.
You are right though, the people were a huge reason why EQ was so great. Some of that i think is because it was a small, more tight knit, like minded player base back then. But also i think the game mechanics of EQ made it so the community was so cool. You had to work with others in EQ, you had to associate with others in EQ, so if you were an ass all the time you would not have an easy time in EQ. People could get a reputation in EQ and soon everyone on a 2000+ server would know all about you.
I like to solo in MMOs but newer MMOs have taken it way to far. You dont have to associate with others hardly it all. This type of gaming does not create a community it just creates a bunch of players looking out for #1.
I recently did - I started from scratch, and I've gotta say it's been one of the more interesting MMO experiences since I left.. err.. well, EQ. From what I can see, the only changes that have been made have genuinely been for the better. It's no longer as difficult to be a noob in the game, things are explained more clearly and there's actually a tutorial and some quests. With that said, the game still isn't simple, and there's still alot to get your head around and a lot of depth.
I'd recommend going back to EQ :P I recently did - I started from scratch, and I've gotta say it's been one of the more interesting MMO experiences since I left.. err.. well, EQ. From what I can see, the only changes that have been made have genuinely been for the better. It's no longer as difficult to be a noob in the game, things are explained more clearly and there's actually a tutorial and some quests. With that said, the game still isn't simple, and there's still alot to get your head around and a lot of depth. Give it a go.
Told myself that i would not go back AGAIN, but maybe i will.
If i do i want to start from scratch, any server recommendations?
I will explain to you, I'm not comparing Pong to WOW.
You contradict yourself.
Please feel free to make a salient point...but try to avoid the exaggerations that defuse your own argument. They come off as platitudes, and distract from your primary point.
Riiighttt.....
Hohbein, about going back to EQ... they destroyed it since PoP expansion. It's nothing like old EQ anymore. There are some private servers that run classic EQ, but they seem to be not legal (someone posted info about it and the thread got deleted).
I will explain to you, I'm not comparing Pong to WOW.
You contradict yourself.
Please feel free to make a salient point...but try to avoid the exaggerations that defuse your own argument. They come off as platitudes, and distract from your primary point.
Riiighttt.....
Hohbein, about going back to EQ... they destroyed it since PoP expansion. It's nothing like old EQ anymore. There are some private servers that run classic EQ, but they seem to be not legal (someone posted info about it and the thread got deleted).
In what way do you feel they ruined it with PoP?
In fairness, I never did max-out any char on EQ. My highest was 57, and so I never really got to play through any high-end content. I may therefore be missing exactly what PoP has ruined, however from the perspective of a new gamer, or a returning EQ fan that never really played it that hard previously, I think it's still one of the better MMORPGs out there.
I'd recommend going back to EQ :P I recently did - I started from scratch, and I've gotta say it's been one of the more interesting MMO experiences since I left.. err.. well, EQ. From what I can see, the only changes that have been made have genuinely been for the better. It's no longer as difficult to be a noob in the game, things are explained more clearly and there's actually a tutorial and some quests. With that said, the game still isn't simple, and there's still alot to get your head around and a lot of depth. Give it a go.
Told myself that i would not go back AGAIN, but maybe i will.
If i do i want to start from scratch, any server recommendations?
I'm not sure TBH, I just went back on Antonious Bayle (EU server), as that's where all my old chars and my friends are. Population isn't what it was, but still seems fine (no problems getting groups if necessary).
Comments
QFT
Absolutely yes, because for many, many people it was their first MMOG.
The real question is: why is this unique to the MMO genre? You might see this arguement in other genres, but not to this extent. My guess, would have to be that other genres are much more diverse, with many more quality games.
That means we are still wanting to play Pong? or the first Flight Simulator? or The Rise of The Triad?
If there is a real improvement the "first" feeling stays there, as a memory, and you go on with new experiences.
But, when things go downhill, then the "first" experience remains as the best one, not because it was the first, but because it was just that, the best, because it was the best game. Or lover
That's a specious argument. Pong is not even remotely the same kind of game.
The comparison brought up in the original post was from MMOG to MMOG, and that's where the "first" analogies spring from? Trying to amplify the point back to the origins of electronic gaming is foolishness.
That's a specious argument. Pong is not even remotely the same kind of game.
The comparison brought up in the original post was from MMOG to MMOG, and that's where the "first" analogies spring from? Trying to amplify the point back to the origins of electronic gaming is foolishness.
I will explain to you, I'm not comparing Pong to WOW.If the first kiss is the explanation, Flight Sim enthusiasts would be saying that the first Flight Simulator was the best. Or Flight Simulator 95 if that was their first one, and the rest crap. FPS enthusiasts would be saying that ROTT was the best one and the rest crap.
It's not the case, ROTT and Doom were great back then, but FPS that appeared afterwards were amazing. The first Flight Simulator you played was great, but FS2004 was better, and probably FSX too (haven't played it).
This is not the case with EQ. EQ was great, and the MMOS we have now are crap compared to it.
You contradict yourself.
Please feel free to make a salient point...but try to avoid the exaggerations that defuse your own argument. They come off as platitudes, and distract from your primary point.
I look fondly at the experiences I had with other players in my first MMO, but not necessarily fondly to the combat mechanics, gimpiness, and flaws of it. The merits of MMOs isn't often found in the game itself, but in the players.
-- Brede
My Gnomes Holy Trinity in EQ was "Engulfing Darkness, Fear, DotDOTDOT!". I truly miss my Ice Giants.!! I miss my 8 bags of Fine weapons you hired a lowbie to mule for! I miss Hill Giants chasing me down as my pet wacked on em! I miss my pets laughter! Nothing more exhilirating than a skeleton skull giving out such a wonderfully, ghastly, hellish but loving laugh! I miss the trains!! I miss getting pretty things and decorations because some poor goodie lost his corpse deep in some evil infested place!QFT
I miss killing Holly Windstalker!! I miss going to Freeport and smacking a guard or two!
These are just a few things I miss.There will never be a game like EQ. But I am sure there will be a game eventually that will bring that first time enjoyment! I also know that some may actually have fun with a different game that was just like my EQ!
Happy Gaming!
Fellow folks of the eq memorys you fail to mention why we all so loveed the game. Immersion!
yes thats right name one game that has come out since eq /ac that had immersion?
they stopped making them long ago when graphics and game longetivity became the issue not immersion.
anytime there are instances and quest based leveling there is a loss of immersion.
anytime you have click travel there is loss of immersion
anytime you have lack of good story line or poor implimentation of story lineyou have loss of immersion.
wow comes very close to having awsome immersion that i would say even rivals eq yet they fall short because there are so many younger players who dont know how to play along.
there will never be another everquest as long as games continue to reward you for quests and not for grinding.
Some lead and some follow I prefer to stand beside!
I was reading the AOC forum and someone said that they did not feel immersion in AOC because of the loading screens. And that you can feel immersed (is that a word) with loading screens.
Yet, i also feel EQ has had the most immersion of any game i have played, and it had loading screens.
And dont forget, you also need meaning faction and a meaningful diety system. Plus it helps to have all those nasty time sinks like languages, spell components, actually looking at a spell book, etc etc.
I look fondly at the experiences I had with other players in my first MMO, but not necessarily fondly to the combat mechanics, gimpiness, and flaws of it. The merits of MMOs isn't often found in the game itself, but in the players.
-- Brede
I actually do look fondly back on the mechanics of EQ.You are right though, the people were a huge reason why EQ was so great. Some of that i think is because it was a small, more tight knit, like minded player base back then. But also i think the game mechanics of EQ made it so the community was so cool. You had to work with others in EQ, you had to associate with others in EQ, so if you were an ass all the time you would not have an easy time in EQ. People could get a reputation in EQ and soon everyone on a 2000+ server would know all about you.
I like to solo in MMOs but newer MMOs have taken it way to far. You dont have to associate with others hardly it all. This type of gaming does not create a community it just creates a bunch of players looking out for #1.
I'd recommend going back to EQ :P
I recently did - I started from scratch, and I've gotta say it's been one of the more interesting MMO experiences since I left.. err.. well, EQ. From what I can see, the only changes that have been made have genuinely been for the better. It's no longer as difficult to be a noob in the game, things are explained more clearly and there's actually a tutorial and some quests. With that said, the game still isn't simple, and there's still alot to get your head around and a lot of depth.
Give it a go.
If i do i want to start from scratch, any server recommendations?
You contradict yourself.
Please feel free to make a salient point...but try to avoid the exaggerations that defuse your own argument. They come off as platitudes, and distract from your primary point.
Riiighttt.....Hohbein, about going back to EQ... they destroyed it since PoP expansion. It's nothing like old EQ anymore. There are some private servers that run classic EQ, but they seem to be not legal (someone posted info about it and the thread got deleted).
You contradict yourself.
Please feel free to make a salient point...but try to avoid the exaggerations that defuse your own argument. They come off as platitudes, and distract from your primary point.
Riiighttt.....Hohbein, about going back to EQ... they destroyed it since PoP expansion. It's nothing like old EQ anymore. There are some private servers that run classic EQ, but they seem to be not legal (someone posted info about it and the thread got deleted).
In what way do you feel they ruined it with PoP?
In fairness, I never did max-out any char on EQ. My highest was 57, and so I never really got to play through any high-end content. I may therefore be missing exactly what PoP has ruined, however from the perspective of a new gamer, or a returning EQ fan that never really played it that hard previously, I think it's still one of the better MMORPGs out there.
If i do i want to start from scratch, any server recommendations?
I'm not sure TBH, I just went back on Antonious Bayle (EU server), as that's where all my old chars and my friends are. Population isn't what it was, but still seems fine (no problems getting groups if necessary).
well people say since PoP because from that point onwards Everquest really turned into a raiding game.