Whining on the other hand won't win you many awards. Take it as a friendly suggestion rather than a snarky remark.
If you don't like being ganked, spare yourself of the frustration and just roll on a PvE server like the majority of players. A FFA PvP ruleset server in itself will never ever make for meaningful PvP, so don't even think of looking for it there, because it won't happen. You'll be disappointed.
In order for meaningful PvP to have a chance of happening, you need specific objectives you can fight over or causes you can fight for... which frankly... are easier for developers to implement in specific PvP instances/zones and minigames so that they can add them to the PvE servers as well. Heh, and then you're back to square one where you might as well roll on a PvE server.
Of course, all that assumes that meaningful PvP isn't some unrealistic illusion that makes for great daydreaming about the perfect PvP MMO, but in reality will never happen because it just... can't. Don't get me wrong, I too dream of that, but I've come to realize that it's mostly a myth. You know, like that perfect girl that never showed up and now you're stuck with that cranky old woman
Anyway, cheers... and try to have some fun instead
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
The Ganking as its being called is an easy fix and im frankly surprised it hasnt already been put into place by Funcom unless they have no plans to address this issue and others I see related to PVP in AOC's current state.
1. When you spawn after a PVP death you should be immune to attacks for a short period of time. e.g. 5 mins of nothing can hurt you and you cannot hurt anything else.
That will fix spawn camping real quick.
2. Unique kills in a given time frame. e.g. I kill Noob1 and gain x# pvp xp. If I kill Noob1 again in less than 30mins I get no xp. Cause its not a unique kill till the time elaspes, After 30 mins the timer starts for how long noob1 is alive it takes 1hr for noob1 to be worth full xp again to predator1 who killed him in that last hour. This is only used for unique kills therefore a different predator2 can kill noob1 within that time fram after the 5 min timer for normal pvp xp. However the timers for predator 1 and 2 are still in place until they expire from original kill time. so on and so on.
This will prevent exploitation which will happen in its current state in order for those to gain fast pvp xp. e.g. 2 accounts killing each others alts back to back to gain pvp xp with no risk.
3. Also for Noob1 if he is killed by predator 1 within the time frame his xp loss is scaled and relavent to the xp gained by his predator e.g. Predator1 spawn camps noob1 so predator1 is getting no xp thus resulting in no xp death loss for noob1. Also there needs to be an added optional spawn point in the 20 intro cities so that noob1 doesn't have his gameplay experience destroyed because billy_no_friends assasin who stole his mommys credit card and thinks this is funny watching this guy spawn then die, spawn then die, spawn then die over and over... hahahah right
its real funny till its you getting camped.
Just a few suggestions. Kinda think they might have put something like this in place from the get go if things were thought thru clearly. Since none of the closed beta/ AoC gurus havnt mentioned it and ive heard nothing from Funcom about it, leads me to believe its not gonna happen till after release if at all.
Correct me if im wrong. I try to assume things I don't know about. These are just my 2 shiny copper plated zinc slags.
#$#% Disclaimer #$#$
I am not posting this because I was victim to any way shape or form of ganking, camping or any other type of behaviour that would make me whiney. It just makes sense
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." - Lord Acton
The Ganking as its being called is an easy fix and im frankly surprised it hasnt already been put into place by Funcom unless they have no plans to address this issue and others I see related to PVP in AOC's current state. 1. When you spawn after a PVP death you should be immune to attacks for a short period of time. e.g. 5 mins of nothing can hurt you and you cannot hurt anything else. That will fix spawn camping real quick. 2. Unique kills in a given time frame. e.g. I kill Noob1 and gain x# pvp xp. If I kill Noob1 again in less than 30mins I get no xp. Cause its not a unique kill till the time elaspes, After 30 mins the timer starts for how long noob1 is alive it takes 1hr for noob1 to be worth full xp again to predator1 who killed him in that last hour. This is only used for unique kills therefore a different predator2 can kill noob1 within that time fram after the 5 min timer for normal pvp xp. However the timers for predator 1 and 2 are still in place until they expire from original kill time. so on and so on.
This will prevent exploitation which will happen in its current state in order for those to gain fast pvp xp. e.g. 2 accounts killing each others alts back to back to gain pvp xp with no risk.
3. Also for Noob1 if he is killed by predator 1 within the time frame his xp loss is scaled and relavent to the xp gained by his predator e.g. Predator1 spawn camps noob1 so predator1 is getting no xp thus resulting in no xp death loss for noob1. Also there needs to be an added optional spawn point in the 20 intro cities so that noob1 doesn't have his gameplay experience destroyed because billy_no_friends assasin who stole his mommys credit card and thinks this is funny watching this guy spawn then die, spawn then die, spawn then die over and over... hahahah right
its real funny till its you getting camped. Just a few suggestions. Kinda think they might have put something like this in place from the get go if things were thought thru clearly. Since none of the closed beta/ AoC gurus havnt mentioned it and ive heard nothing from Funcom about it, leads me to believe its not gonna happen till after release if at all.
Correct me if im wrong. I try to assume things I don't know about. These are just my 2 shiny copper plated zinc slags. #$#% Disclaimer #$#$ I am not posting this because I was victim to any way shape or form of ganking, camping or any other type of behaviour that would make me whiney. It just makes sense
Lets be honest there are only two types of players :-
Carebears, which are people who believe that social interaction does not necessarily mean kill or be killed and who actually want to enjoy the game.
and
Griefers, people who believe that killing ai controlled mobs are to easy and much more enjoyable taking ten mates over to beat up someone else and hey if that person can't fight back even better. This category of player often wishes for the old days of UO where you not only got to kill people over and over again but you could also steal all their stuff.
So there you have it choose are you a carebear or a griefer but be aware if your a griefer it works both ways ... so if you go all out pvp server suck it up you choose to be a griefer if you can't hack the pain get out of there and join a different server.
For the record I favor "carebear" servers largely because I am still shellshocked from UO <grin>.
Basically AOC caters either to: Gankers or to Carebears
What about people that want meaningful PVP ?
Oh please.
So you disregard one group ("carebears") and elevate yourself (?) above them but complain that ganking is not "meaningful" pvp.
Some would say that it "is" meaningful as it makes sure you surround yourself with allies and are always prepared. Some would also say that if you don't like full on FFA pvp the you are a bit carebear, no? That that is the REAL pvp.
And meaningful? I've yet to see a person define that to my satisfaction, as what has meaning to one person might be off the mark for another.
Listen, I'm sorry that you don't like the Conan ruleset but it seems that it just takes one extreme or another. Perhaps players can then pick and find something that they find meaningful themselves.
edit: so here's a good example. I walk into a bar (hmmm seems like the start of a joke?) and suddenly someone starts hitting me with arrows. Now, at this time I'm not familiar with my new lvl 20 character so I run out to better learn what I'm about. Then I go in and that person is not to be seen. Another guy comes in, we start talking and suddnely someone uncloaks next to him and surprise attacks him.
Well, I'm not about to let that happen so I attack his attacker. The attacker goes down.
Teamwork. and with someone who I don't really know.
Now this is not to say that I'm going to be signing on to the whole FFA server thing as I already play one FFA game. That is enough for me.
But it doesn't make it any less meaningful and could be exciting. I really bet it will. However, it isn't for everyone sure. But it shouldn't lessen the people who want it.
I will tell you what I would find to be meaningful pvp regarding your own bar example. I think the best pvp system to be a free for all pvp but with meaningful reactions from the society as a whole, which must include npc reactions in online worlds as they are built today.
In your example this would probably mean that yes someone can shoot you full of arrows, but the city guards or even the bar owner would most likely take the shooter out pretty quick. Consequences of ones actions - that is what would make a great pvp system. Just playing a psychotic murderer should be hard!
I have yet to play Conan and I am a bit of a carebear myself so I will play on a pve server, even if I wish they could have an rp-pve server.
I will tell you what I would find to be meaningful pvp regarding your own bar example. I think the best pvp system to be a free for all pvp but with meaningful reactions from the society as a whole, which must include npc reactions in online worlds as they are built today.
In your example this would probably mean that yes someone can shoot you full of arrows, but the city guards or even the bar owner would most likely take the shooter out pretty quick. Consequences of ones actions - that is what would make a great pvp system. Just playing a psychotic murderer should be hard!
I have yet to play Conan and I am a bit of a carebear myself so I will play on a pve server, even if I wish they could have an rp-pve server.
I agree there should be a faction or reputation system, whatever you wanna call it. If I am an Aquilonian and I stroll up to the outside gates of Broken Leg Glen and start ganking Cimmerians for a few hours. Then decide to stroll into the city and sell the bloodied armors and broken weapons back to the village vendors. I should expect to get raped by the guards at the least. Or maybe some Oblivion consequences like a little time in the stockade
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." - Lord Acton
Originally posted by Lobotomist When i say meaningful PVP i mean: You need
FULL LOOTING , EXPERIENCE LOSS
I'd suggest you take a look at MMO history. That formula has been proven to be a recipe for disaster and will lead to empty servers quicker than the wait for the next MMO coming down the line. The only MMO I've tried which is holding up is EVE online. Yet for some reason, about 80% of the population... or something not too far from that... is "stuck" in hi-sec and almost nobody goes to low-sec where ganking is most prominent. My bet is that EVE is only really doing so well because it's the only space MMO.
Sure, that may be your definition of meaningful PvP, but I can assure you that you're in the minority and will be in for a long and disappointing wait if that's what you're hoping for. In the meanwhile, EVE is your best bet or if you can stomach the primitive graphics... Shadowbane might still be running on fumes.
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Originally posted by Lobotomist When i say meaningful PVP i mean: You need
FULL LOOTING , EXPERIENCE LOSS
I'd suggest you take a look at MMO history. That formula has been proven to be a recipe for disaster and will lead to empty servers quicker than the wait for the next MMO coming down the line. The only MMO I've tried which is holding up is EVE online. Yet for some reason, about 80% of the population... or something not too far from that... is "stuck" in hi-sec and almost nobody goes to low-sec where ganking is most prominent. My bet is that EVE is only really doing so well because it's the only space MMO.
Sure, that may be your definition of meaningful PvP, but I can assure you that you're in the minority and will be in for a long and disappointing wait if that's what you're hoping for. In the meanwhile, EVE is your best bet or if you can stomach the primitive graphics... Shadowbane might still be running on fumes.
I think people that enjoy Ganking are just people craving for attention ...cute
But back to the point When i say meaningful PVP i mean: You need
FULL LOOTING , EXPERIENCE LOSS
Without this, what is stopping griefer from griefing? He fears nothing case he has nothing to loose. And there is no way he can be punished... Why should he ever stop? You can bring 100 people looking for him. He will die few times , so what ? He gains triple from taking gank opportunities and easy kills. POINTLESS....
You want real PVP ? Than make it real...
All that would happen then is the griefers as you call them would make groups. PvPers are not mobs we do something called adapting.
At launch most likely there will not be as much rampant ganking in the game because people will start to care about their reputation they will form guilds and start fighting one another. Yes there will be gankers still but they will be policed by other players if you go by every FFA PvP game there is. I.e. the gankers all way end up fighting the anti gankers, which creates more PvP in the game.
Full looting would flood age of conans economy with items because it is not designed for it. Experience loss would make people leave the game because again the game is not designed for it. Age of conan is already going to be a very small niche making it smaller is not the best of ideas.
If people enjoy the PvP in age of conan then it is meaningful, having experience loss, or item gain, or any kind of gain from PvP other than the enjoyment of doing it does not make it more meaningful.
This is not a PvP game any way. For one items and levels actually make a difference in this game, and dice rolls are abundant. Theres also seperate servers for PvP and PvE, a game designed for PvP would be designed around everyone both PvErs and PvPers working together on one server type. Moreover if this game was designed for PvP then its graphics and system requirements would not be so high because PvP and high system requirements do not mix.
FC certainly didn't do themselves a favour with this gankfest. It's turning off a lot of people and quite a number of them won't get the concept of PvE servers.
The Ganking as its being called is an easy fix and im frankly surprised it hasnt already been put into place by Funcom unless they have no plans to address this issue and others I see related to PVP in AOC's current state. 1. When you spawn after a PVP death you should be immune to attacks for a short period of time. e.g. 5 mins of nothing can hurt you and you cannot hurt anything else. That will fix spawn camping real quick. 2. Unique kills in a given time frame. e.g. I kill Noob1 and gain x# pvp xp. If I kill Noob1 again in less than 30mins I get no xp. Cause its not a unique kill till the time elaspes, After 30 mins the timer starts for how long noob1 is alive it takes 1hr for noob1 to be worth full xp again to predator1 who killed him in that last hour. This is only used for unique kills therefore a different predator2 can kill noob1 within that time fram after the 5 min timer for normal pvp xp. However the timers for predator 1 and 2 are still in place until they expire from original kill time. so on and so on.
This will prevent exploitation which will happen in its current state in order for those to gain fast pvp xp. e.g. 2 accounts killing each others alts back to back to gain pvp xp with no risk.
3. Also for Noob1 if he is killed by predator 1 within the time frame his xp loss is scaled and relavent to the xp gained by his predator e.g. Predator1 spawn camps noob1 so predator1 is getting no xp thus resulting in no xp death loss for noob1. Also there needs to be an added optional spawn point in the 20 intro cities so that noob1 doesn't have his gameplay experience destroyed because billy_no_friends assasin who stole his mommys credit card and thinks this is funny watching this guy spawn then die, spawn then die, spawn then die over and over... hahahah right
its real funny till its you getting camped. Just a few suggestions. Kinda think they might have put something like this in place from the get go if things were thought thru clearly. Since none of the closed beta/ AoC gurus havnt mentioned it and ive heard nothing from Funcom about it, leads me to believe its not gonna happen till after release if at all.
Correct me if im wrong. I try to assume things I don't know about. These are just my 2 shiny copper plated zinc slags. #$#% Disclaimer #$#$ I am not posting this because I was victim to any way shape or form of ganking, camping or any other type of behaviour that would make me whiney. It just makes sense
Good ideas.
This would quite fix gank exploits , present right now.
Combine it with some kind of REPUTATION gain. Something you can win or lose. And you have to work hard at keeping.
I think people that enjoy Ganking are just people craving for attention ...cute
But back to the point When i say meaningful PVP i mean: You need
FULL LOOTING , EXPERIENCE LOSS
Without this, what is stopping griefer from griefing? He fears nothing case he has nothing to loose. And there is no way he can be punished... Why should he ever stop? You can bring 100 people looking for him. He will die few times , so what ? He gains triple from taking gank opportunities and easy kills. POINTLESS....
You want real PVP ? Than make it real...
I agree that there definitely needs to be some kind of risk involved with PvPing on the FFA servers. If you die, well most of the time its a free trip back to a resurrection point and that's it.
Do we even lose PvP experience? I haven't really paid attention.
I also agree with an earlier sentiment the OP made, that so far, AoC seems to be the perfect formula for griefing. There's like nothing else to do except gank or grief as a stealther.
I've never been a griefer in an MMO, I've never ress-camped or killed a person who's fighting a monster. But...when demonologists and necromancers are stealthing around, and the one circumstance you can see them is while they're PvEing, what else are you supposed to do except engage them? Wait until the necromancer is done slaying himself up an army of zombies?
Without risk, its simply a convenience to kill another player, and most situations that present themselves come off as griefing with every single class being capable of stealthing.
At the same time though, my experience wasn't as one-sided as the OP, and I have to say I noticed PvE interests more prevalent than PvP. There was ganking, but the gankers suffered anytime 2 or more players intent on PvEing decided to group together and made the lone ganker suffer.
The minute-made gank guilds sucked though.
All and all, I had an incredibly fun time today. I found all the ganking funny and entertaining more than anything else, whereas usually I'd think it was pathetic in another game. Mainly because it felt visceral and reactionary more often than deliberate. It felt like Hyboria.
It will always be one of the universe's great miracles to me how ppl enjoy FFA-PVP. Isnt the fun in playing a game against another human being doing it within rules and restriction?
Now take chess. Sure, it is annoying in some situation your bishop can only move diagonal, and yeah, it can be evil that the Knight can just jump into your defenses. Of course it would all be much easier to make chess a FFA ruleset, where every piece could move in EVERY direction. That sure would make it "easier" to beat the pieces of the enemy, but it would ruin the overall meaning and experience of the game.
Or soccer, or football, or any other competitive sports. Is it not because there are ruleset limits as to how and when and in what way to oppose the enemy that make those sports interesting? What use would it be to take all those rules away, make it FFA soccer or FFA hockey and say "hey there are not 2 goals but every where goals, and everyone can do what he want". It would be a mere mindless gankfest. As FFA.
If people oppose thise PVP form, it is not because they are carebears. Carebears dont play PVP at all. Its because they prefer to beat their enemy within set rules of engagement. The rest is just mindless mass murder and anarchy, in which neither skill nor tactics nor anything of value are tested, and as such *some* people find it only boring. Sometimes I really wonder if MMos should have psychological tests before allowing gamers to enter.
It is where we TRULY can test our skills when given a set of rules to do it within. A person proves nothing by ganking, just his character which is revealed. I am all for a chivalrous war within rules of engagement. But constant murder? Why would one *desire* to spent his spare time in a constant environment of fear, by his free will? Maybe too many humans ARE sick. Wasnt it the joke in the "Matrix", when the Machines said, well first we created a Paradise illusion world, but for humans it didnt work. Maybe too many need the whip. If so, we truly were a doomed race.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I will probably get flamed for posting this, but the open beta ffa pvp turned me off playing on pvp server in AoC. I have played on pvp servers in every mmo I have tried to date (including nearly 8 years of ffa mud with full looting and xp (level actually) loss) and AoC ffa has been just horrible experience to me. There is nothing more annoying to me then being killed while zoning just to respawn nearly dead from another pack of gankers and then get stuck there for half an hour trying to get out. AoC ffa made me realize the brilliance of pvp mini games, where teams of people ready to pvp meet to battle it out. Ganking people zoning/respawning (especially with AoC's well known horrible loading times) does not constitute any skill in my book, it is just lame.
I will probably get flamed for posting this, but the open beta ffa pvp turned me off playing on pvp server in AoC. I have played on pvp servers in every mmo I have tried to date (including nearly 8 years of ffa mud with full looting and xp (level actually) loss) and AoC ffa has been just horrible experience to me. There is nothing more annoying to me then being killed while zoning just to respawn nearly dead from another pack of gankers and then get stuck there for half an hour trying to get out. AoC ffa made me realize the brilliance of pvp mini games, where teams of people ready to pvp meet to battle it out. Ganking people zoning/respawning (especially with AoC's well known horrible loading times) does not constitute any skill in my book, it is just lame. /flame proof underwear on! Edit: typos
I couldn't agree with you more brother, best post yet.
"For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, 'If I live, I will kill you. If I die, You are forgiven.' Such is the rule of honour..."
The Ganking as its being called is an easy fix and im frankly surprised it hasnt already been put into place by Funcom unless they have no plans to address this issue and others I see related to PVP in AOC's current state. 1. When you spawn after a PVP death you should be immune to attacks for a short period of time. e.g. 5 mins of nothing can hurt you and you cannot hurt anything else. That will fix spawn camping real quick.
Funcom has stated resolutions for this - I highlighted the text below
Age of Conan PvP Interview (PC)
We grill Funcom's Game Director Gaute Godager about the particulars of Conan's PvP system.
GameSpy: Can you talk about how the PvP servers will work?
Godager: Basically, when the players play with these systems, they say, "Hey, we don't want to be told what to do, we want to be able to do what we want to do. We would like to be the ones deciding to be careful, or to be nasty, or [do things like] pretending to help the ones we want to kill, and then stabbing them when they're at low health." That must be part of the game, that type of betrayal is quite vital in a Conan game. And that's basically what we did.
When we started out the system was very refined, and as time went on and iterations were applied, we made it more and more brutal every time. So right now it's open, free-for-all, you do what you want. Nothing is stopping you. The only exception to whom you may kill are zone-based. Certain zones are PvP-disallowed. In particular, those are the big major cities, the hubs as we call them. Apart from that, there isn't any level cap, there isn't anything stopping you from going after people.
There are, however, post-zoning and post-death invulnerabilities. We don't want [people getting] respawn-point ganked or anything like that. You will have enough time to get wherever you want.
It will always be one of the universe's great miracles to me how ppl enjoy FFA-PVP. Isnt the fun in playing a game against another human being doing it within rules and restriction? Now take chess. Sure, it is annoying in some situation your bishop can only move diagonal, and yeah, it can be evil that the Knight can just jump into your defenses. Of course it would all be much easier to make chess a FFA ruleset, where every piece could move in EVERY direction. That sure would make it "easier" to beat the pieces of the enemy, but it would ruin the overall meaning and experience of the game. Or soccer, or football, or any other competitive sports. Is it not because there are ruleset limits as to how and when and in what way to oppose the enemy that make those sports interesting? What use would it be to take all those rules away, make it FFA soccer or FFA hockey and say "hey there are not 2 goals but every where goals, and everyone can do what he want". It would be a mere mindless gankfest. As FFA. If people oppose thise PVP form, it is not because they are carebears. Carebears dont play PVP at all. Its because they prefer to beat their enemy within set rules of engagement. The rest is just mindless mass murder and anarchy, in which neither skill nor tactics nor anything of value are tested, and as such *some* people find it only boring. Sometimes I really wonder if MMos should have psychological tests before allowing gamers to enter. It is where we TRULY can test our skills when given a set of rules to do it within. A person proves nothing by ganking, just his character which is revealed. I am all for a chivalrous war within rules of engagement. But constant murder? Why would one *desire* to spent his spare time in a constant environment of fear, by his free will? Maybe too many humans ARE sick. Wasnt it the joke in the "Matrix", when the Machines said, well first we created a Paradise illusion world, but for humans it didnt work. Maybe too many need the whip. If so, we truly were a doomed race.
Best post i've ever read about FFA-PVP. Excellent.
Again - bad coding/design gives you "zoning" instead of seamless transitions. Funcom just tells you that if they didn't, they couldn't make graphics so pretty, but not a technical reason, and all coders on mmorpg knows it's pr bs to cover up bad design, as seamless transition is indeed possible while having lush graphics.
AoC will tank, WoW will keep going strong - at least until WAR.
I will probably get flamed for posting this, but the open beta ffa pvp turned me off playing on pvp server in AoC. I have played on pvp servers in every mmo I have tried to date (including nearly 8 years of ffa mud with full looting and xp (level actually) loss) and AoC ffa has been just horrible experience to me. There is nothing more annoying to me then being killed while zoning just to respawn nearly dead from another pack of gankers and then get stuck there for half an hour trying to get out. AoC ffa made me realize the brilliance of pvp mini games, where teams of people ready to pvp meet to battle it out. Ganking people zoning/respawning (especially with AoC's well known horrible loading times) does not constitute any skill in my book, it is just lame. /flame proof underwear on! Edit: typos
I totally agree and oddly enough I didn't have this experience tonight but I saw it happening constantly. I started to watch these people near where you spawn after leaving the city and they would literally wait til the person started to load and try to have them dead before the game loaded for them. I did find a fun hobby in the process though, I spent the whole night hunting gankers and true pvpers alike and had alot of fun.
The problem? the class I played through beta and most other fantasy mmo's is so ungodly overpowered right now its crazy. I rolled ranger not knowing the status of the classes and let me tell you if the classes aren't balanced before launch get ready for alot of stealth kills by rangers. I got to the point I was looking for those 3 lvls higher just to have a even fight, I finished the night with 54 kills and 15 deaths and 14 of the 15 deaths were from gank squads. I must say it was fun to watch a ganker trying to kill someone that was still loading and I would unleash a barrage of arrows and have him dead before he even knew what hit him.
RIght now though stealth is overpowered to the extreme if you put points into it and honestly the kills lose meaning when it comes so easy. I honestly see myself just waiting for a game that has a reason to kill the other players, FFA just seems pointless for some reason...
Comments
There is nothing wrong with being a carebear.
I repeat...
There is nothing wrong with being a carebear.
Whining on the other hand won't win you many awards. Take it as a friendly suggestion rather than a snarky remark.
If you don't like being ganked, spare yourself of the frustration and just roll on a PvE server like the majority of players. A FFA PvP ruleset server in itself will never ever make for meaningful PvP, so don't even think of looking for it there, because it won't happen. You'll be disappointed.
In order for meaningful PvP to have a chance of happening, you need specific objectives you can fight over or causes you can fight for... which frankly... are easier for developers to implement in specific PvP instances/zones and minigames so that they can add them to the PvE servers as well. Heh, and then you're back to square one where you might as well roll on a PvE server.
Of course, all that assumes that meaningful PvP isn't some unrealistic illusion that makes for great daydreaming about the perfect PvP MMO, but in reality will never happen because it just... can't. Don't get me wrong, I too dream of that, but I've come to realize that it's mostly a myth. You know, like that perfect girl that never showed up and now you're stuck with that cranky old woman
Anyway, cheers... and try to have some fun instead
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
The Ganking as its being called is an easy fix and im frankly surprised it hasnt already been put into place by Funcom unless they have no plans to address this issue and others I see related to PVP in AOC's current state.
1. When you spawn after a PVP death you should be immune to attacks for a short period of time. e.g. 5 mins of nothing can hurt you and you cannot hurt anything else.
That will fix spawn camping real quick.
2. Unique kills in a given time frame. e.g. I kill Noob1 and gain x# pvp xp. If I kill Noob1 again in less than 30mins I get no xp. Cause its not a unique kill till the time elaspes, After 30 mins the timer starts for how long noob1 is alive it takes 1hr for noob1 to be worth full xp again to predator1 who killed him in that last hour. This is only used for unique kills therefore a different predator2 can kill noob1 within that time fram after the 5 min timer for normal pvp xp. However the timers for predator 1 and 2 are still in place until they expire from original kill time. so on and so on.
This will prevent exploitation which will happen in its current state in order for those to gain fast pvp xp. e.g. 2 accounts killing each others alts back to back to gain pvp xp with no risk.
3. Also for Noob1 if he is killed by predator 1 within the time frame his xp loss is scaled and relavent to the xp gained by his predator e.g. Predator1 spawn camps noob1 so predator1 is getting no xp thus resulting in no xp death loss for noob1. Also there needs to be an added optional spawn point in the 20 intro cities so that noob1 doesn't have his gameplay experience destroyed because billy_no_friends assasin who stole his mommys credit card and thinks this is funny watching this guy spawn then die, spawn then die, spawn then die over and over... hahahah right
its real funny till its you getting camped.
Just a few suggestions. Kinda think they might have put something like this in place from the get go if things were thought thru clearly. Since none of the closed beta/ AoC gurus havnt mentioned it and ive heard nothing from Funcom about it, leads me to believe its not gonna happen till after release if at all.
Correct me if im wrong. I try to assume things I don't know about. These are just my 2 shiny copper plated zinc slags.
#$#% Disclaimer #$#$
I am not posting this because I was victim to any way shape or form of ganking, camping or any other type of behaviour that would make me whiney. It just makes sense
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." - Lord Acton
those are good ideas
Lets be honest there are only two types of players :-
Carebears, which are people who believe that social interaction does not necessarily mean kill or be killed and who actually want to enjoy the game.
and
Griefers, people who believe that killing ai controlled mobs are to easy and much more enjoyable taking ten mates over to beat up someone else and hey if that person can't fight back even better. This category of player often wishes for the old days of UO where you not only got to kill people over and over again but you could also steal all their stuff.
So there you have it choose are you a carebear or a griefer but be aware if your a griefer it works both ways ... so if you go all out pvp server suck it up you choose to be a griefer if you can't hack the pain get out of there and join a different server.
For the record I favor "carebear" servers largely because I am still shellshocked from UO <grin>.
Just my 2 cents
Gadareth
Oh please.
So you disregard one group ("carebears") and elevate yourself (?) above them but complain that ganking is not "meaningful" pvp.
Some would say that it "is" meaningful as it makes sure you surround yourself with allies and are always prepared. Some would also say that if you don't like full on FFA pvp the you are a bit carebear, no? That that is the REAL pvp.
And meaningful? I've yet to see a person define that to my satisfaction, as what has meaning to one person might be off the mark for another.
Listen, I'm sorry that you don't like the Conan ruleset but it seems that it just takes one extreme or another. Perhaps players can then pick and find something that they find meaningful themselves.
edit: so here's a good example. I walk into a bar (hmmm seems like the start of a joke?) and suddenly someone starts hitting me with arrows. Now, at this time I'm not familiar with my new lvl 20 character so I run out to better learn what I'm about. Then I go in and that person is not to be seen. Another guy comes in, we start talking and suddnely someone uncloaks next to him and surprise attacks him.
Well, I'm not about to let that happen so I attack his attacker. The attacker goes down.
Teamwork. and with someone who I don't really know.
Now this is not to say that I'm going to be signing on to the whole FFA server thing as I already play one FFA game. That is enough for me.
But it doesn't make it any less meaningful and could be exciting. I really bet it will. However, it isn't for everyone sure. But it shouldn't lessen the people who want it.
I will tell you what I would find to be meaningful pvp regarding your own bar example. I think the best pvp system to be a free for all pvp but with meaningful reactions from the society as a whole, which must include npc reactions in online worlds as they are built today.In your example this would probably mean that yes someone can shoot you full of arrows, but the city guards or even the bar owner would most likely take the shooter out pretty quick. Consequences of ones actions - that is what would make a great pvp system. Just playing a psychotic murderer should be hard!
I have yet to play Conan and I am a bit of a carebear myself so I will play on a pve server, even if I wish they could have an rp-pve server.
In your example this would probably mean that yes someone can shoot you full of arrows, but the city guards or even the bar owner would most likely take the shooter out pretty quick. Consequences of ones actions - that is what would make a great pvp system. Just playing a psychotic murderer should be hard!
I have yet to play Conan and I am a bit of a carebear myself so I will play on a pve server, even if I wish they could have an rp-pve server.
I agree there should be a faction or reputation system, whatever you wanna call it. If I am an Aquilonian and I stroll up to the outside gates of Broken Leg Glen and start ganking Cimmerians for a few hours. Then decide to stroll into the city and sell the bloodied armors and broken weapons back to the village vendors. I should expect to get raped by the guards at the least. Or maybe some Oblivion consequences like a little time in the stockade
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." - Lord Acton
I'd suggest you take a look at MMO history. That formula has been proven to be a recipe for disaster and will lead to empty servers quicker than the wait for the next MMO coming down the line. The only MMO I've tried which is holding up is EVE online. Yet for some reason, about 80% of the population... or something not too far from that... is "stuck" in hi-sec and almost nobody goes to low-sec where ganking is most prominent. My bet is that EVE is only really doing so well because it's the only space MMO.
Sure, that may be your definition of meaningful PvP, but I can assure you that you're in the minority and will be in for a long and disappointing wait if that's what you're hoping for. In the meanwhile, EVE is your best bet or if you can stomach the primitive graphics... Shadowbane might still be running on fumes.
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
I'd suggest you take a look at MMO history. That formula has been proven to be a recipe for disaster and will lead to empty servers quicker than the wait for the next MMO coming down the line. The only MMO I've tried which is holding up is EVE online. Yet for some reason, about 80% of the population... or something not too far from that... is "stuck" in hi-sec and almost nobody goes to low-sec where ganking is most prominent. My bet is that EVE is only really doing so well because it's the only space MMO.
Sure, that may be your definition of meaningful PvP, but I can assure you that you're in the minority and will be in for a long and disappointing wait if that's what you're hoping for. In the meanwhile, EVE is your best bet or if you can stomach the primitive graphics... Shadowbane might still be running on fumes.
Agree with you on all points
To bad their isn't factions at odd. Where you cold only attack one that isn't your own. IMO it helps in a few ways but this game no havey.
All that would happen then is the griefers as you call them would make groups. PvPers are not mobs we do something called adapting.
At launch most likely there will not be as much rampant ganking in the game because people will start to care about their reputation they will form guilds and start fighting one another. Yes there will be gankers still but they will be policed by other players if you go by every FFA PvP game there is. I.e. the gankers all way end up fighting the anti gankers, which creates more PvP in the game.
Full looting would flood age of conans economy with items because it is not designed for it. Experience loss would make people leave the game because again the game is not designed for it. Age of conan is already going to be a very small niche making it smaller is not the best of ideas.
If people enjoy the PvP in age of conan then it is meaningful, having experience loss, or item gain, or any kind of gain from PvP other than the enjoyment of doing it does not make it more meaningful.
This is not a PvP game any way. For one items and levels actually make a difference in this game, and dice rolls are abundant. Theres also seperate servers for PvP and PvE, a game designed for PvP would be designed around everyone both PvErs and PvPers working together on one server type. Moreover if this game was designed for PvP then its graphics and system requirements would not be so high because PvP and high system requirements do not mix.
FC certainly didn't do themselves a favour with this gankfest. It's turning off a lot of people and quite a number of them won't get the concept of PvE servers.
The OP is still a trolling hater though.
Good ideas.
This would quite fix gank exploits , present right now.
Combine it with some kind of REPUTATION gain. Something you can win or lose. And you have to work hard at keeping.
The PVP might become actually FUN
I agree that there definitely needs to be some kind of risk involved with PvPing on the FFA servers. If you die, well most of the time its a free trip back to a resurrection point and that's it.
Do we even lose PvP experience? I haven't really paid attention.
I also agree with an earlier sentiment the OP made, that so far, AoC seems to be the perfect formula for griefing. There's like nothing else to do except gank or grief as a stealther.
I've never been a griefer in an MMO, I've never ress-camped or killed a person who's fighting a monster. But...when demonologists and necromancers are stealthing around, and the one circumstance you can see them is while they're PvEing, what else are you supposed to do except engage them? Wait until the necromancer is done slaying himself up an army of zombies?
Without risk, its simply a convenience to kill another player, and most situations that present themselves come off as griefing with every single class being capable of stealthing.
At the same time though, my experience wasn't as one-sided as the OP, and I have to say I noticed PvE interests more prevalent than PvP. There was ganking, but the gankers suffered anytime 2 or more players intent on PvEing decided to group together and made the lone ganker suffer.
The minute-made gank guilds sucked though.
All and all, I had an incredibly fun time today. I found all the ganking funny and entertaining more than anything else, whereas usually I'd think it was pathetic in another game. Mainly because it felt visceral and reactionary more often than deliberate. It felt like Hyboria.
It will always be one of the universe's great miracles to me how ppl enjoy FFA-PVP. Isnt the fun in playing a game against another human being doing it within rules and restriction?
Now take chess. Sure, it is annoying in some situation your bishop can only move diagonal, and yeah, it can be evil that the Knight can just jump into your defenses. Of course it would all be much easier to make chess a FFA ruleset, where every piece could move in EVERY direction. That sure would make it "easier" to beat the pieces of the enemy, but it would ruin the overall meaning and experience of the game.
Or soccer, or football, or any other competitive sports. Is it not because there are ruleset limits as to how and when and in what way to oppose the enemy that make those sports interesting? What use would it be to take all those rules away, make it FFA soccer or FFA hockey and say "hey there are not 2 goals but every where goals, and everyone can do what he want". It would be a mere mindless gankfest. As FFA.
If people oppose thise PVP form, it is not because they are carebears. Carebears dont play PVP at all. Its because they prefer to beat their enemy within set rules of engagement. The rest is just mindless mass murder and anarchy, in which neither skill nor tactics nor anything of value are tested, and as such *some* people find it only boring. Sometimes I really wonder if MMos should have psychological tests before allowing gamers to enter.
It is where we TRULY can test our skills when given a set of rules to do it within. A person proves nothing by ganking, just his character which is revealed. I am all for a chivalrous war within rules of engagement. But constant murder? Why would one *desire* to spent his spare time in a constant environment of fear, by his free will? Maybe too many humans ARE sick. Wasnt it the joke in the "Matrix", when the Machines said, well first we created a Paradise illusion world, but for humans it didnt work. Maybe too many need the whip. If so, we truly were a doomed race.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
OP AoC doesnt have meaningfull PvP, never has and probably never will the way it is designed. If u want meaningfull pvp choose another game.
Besides its a little late to ask for changes.
I will probably get flamed for posting this, but the open beta ffa pvp turned me off playing on pvp server in AoC. I have played on pvp servers in every mmo I have tried to date (including nearly 8 years of ffa mud with full looting and xp (level actually) loss) and AoC ffa has been just horrible experience to me. There is nothing more annoying to me then being killed while zoning just to respawn nearly dead from another pack of gankers and then get stuck there for half an hour trying to get out. AoC ffa made me realize the brilliance of pvp mini games, where teams of people ready to pvp meet to battle it out. Ganking people zoning/respawning (especially with AoC's well known horrible loading times) does not constitute any skill in my book, it is just lame.
/flame proof underwear on!
Edit: typos
I couldn't agree with you more brother, best post yet.
"For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, 'If I live, I will kill you. If I die, You are forgiven.' Such is the rule of honour..."
Problem is , we dont have server with ruleset for competitive PVP player
we have
1.FFA PVP - for gankers
2.PVE - for carebear
There is a lack of server that supports PVP players that like Challenge , and not Ganking
Where is that NEXT gen mmo wow killer, pure skill ,no noobs, no instanced pvp, no ganking pvp no noob game that was being hyped for years????
so much for that idea lol.
Yes , now we can name this ANARCHY Online
Just one more of a long list of reason to not play AoC.
Age of Conan PvP Interview (PC)
We grill Funcom's Game Director Gaute Godager about the particulars of Conan's PvP system.
By GameSpy Staff | May 1, 2008
pc.gamespy.com/pc/age-of-conan-hyborian-adventures/870785p1.html
GameSpy: Can you talk about how the PvP servers will work?
Godager: Basically, when the players play with these systems, they say, "Hey, we don't want to be told what to do, we want to be able to do what we want to do. We would like to be the ones deciding to be careful, or to be nasty, or [do things like] pretending to help the ones we want to kill, and then stabbing them when they're at low health." That must be part of the game, that type of betrayal is quite vital in a Conan game. And that's basically what we did.
When we started out the system was very refined, and as time went on and iterations were applied, we made it more and more brutal every time. So right now it's open, free-for-all, you do what you want. Nothing is stopping you. The only exception to whom you may kill are zone-based. Certain zones are PvP-disallowed. In particular, those are the big major cities, the hubs as we call them. Apart from that, there isn't any level cap, there isn't anything stopping you from going after people.
There are, however, post-zoning and post-death invulnerabilities. We don't want [people getting] respawn-point ganked or anything like that. You will have enough time to get wherever you want.
EQ2 fan sites
Best post i've ever read about FFA-PVP. Excellent.
But but aren't bad code better?
Again - bad coding/design gives you "zoning" instead of seamless transitions. Funcom just tells you that if they didn't, they couldn't make graphics so pretty, but not a technical reason, and all coders on mmorpg knows it's pr bs to cover up bad design, as seamless transition is indeed possible while having lush graphics.
AoC will tank, WoW will keep going strong - at least until WAR.
If you want real PVP play EVE Online.
I totally agree and oddly enough I didn't have this experience tonight but I saw it happening constantly. I started to watch these people near where you spawn after leaving the city and they would literally wait til the person started to load and try to have them dead before the game loaded for them. I did find a fun hobby in the process though, I spent the whole night hunting gankers and true pvpers alike and had alot of fun.
The problem? the class I played through beta and most other fantasy mmo's is so ungodly overpowered right now its crazy. I rolled ranger not knowing the status of the classes and let me tell you if the classes aren't balanced before launch get ready for alot of stealth kills by rangers. I got to the point I was looking for those 3 lvls higher just to have a even fight, I finished the night with 54 kills and 15 deaths and 14 of the 15 deaths were from gank squads. I must say it was fun to watch a ganker trying to kill someone that was still loading and I would unleash a barrage of arrows and have him dead before he even knew what hit him.
RIght now though stealth is overpowered to the extreme if you put points into it and honestly the kills lose meaning when it comes so easy. I honestly see myself just waiting for a game that has a reason to kill the other players, FFA just seems pointless for some reason...