The pay to play paradigm - its time has passed

Rekindle

Some of you are going to call me crazy but I think we've all gone nuts paying $15 a month for a game.

If games like Guild Wars and other f2p (or one time fee) games can survive without monthly subs they all can survive without monthly sub.

There was a time when mmorpgs were a unique service and I could kinda understand a monlthy fee. Now, the value and quality of the pay to play games simply isnt there.

I now think monthly fees are a scam.  Devs spend a few years developing a game, granted. But once the game is released and you pay your $60 for the game where is the value in the monthly fee?  New content is few and far between, the games are released in crappy states yet we're expected to pay? (well im not because i dont) .

 

So in the last 10 years we've seen stagnation in the quality of games and no change to the monthly sub concept.  Couple that with the fact there is very little in new content added to games and I almost think its silly to pay for a game each month.  We simply do this because its an online game and thats how we've been programmed. 

These developers have it made- sell a boxed game, recoup dev costs and then rake in $$ each month for content that never gets updated except when you release an expansion but then charge for that too.  Sit back and take a good look at the game you play and ask yourself where the value is in spending money each month for it.

jarish

I think Turbine does a great deal with the money they recieve from subs. At least in LOTRO we get new content updates every 10 weeks and they are planning for yearly expansions. I think they do the best job with adding content to the game and dont' mind paying for it. Though I recently switched to the 9.99/mo plan.

Rollotamasi

Guild wars really isn't a MMO.  It doesn't require constant development.  

deviliscious

Originally posted by Rollotamasi


Guild wars really isn't a MMO.  It doesn't require constant development.  

Guild wars is an mmorpg.. and they do updates  as well as holiday events.. just their game doesn't require alot of maintenence because it doesn't have alot of bugs to fix. It is a quality game with excellent customer service.The developers have a good mindset and I can't wait to see what they accomplish with guild wars2. See if more developers actually produced quality programs in the first place they would not need  to constantly have to work on it. I applaud them for what they accomplished with their first series, and if they put out this kind of quality with their first game .. I  certainly hope that they maintain that quality in the games to come.

Vrazule

Paying full price for expansions is not a bad model, but it doesn't make companies a whole lot of money and you are sadly mistaken if you think this is the route they will take.  If they go with a system, it will most likely be the one that makes them the most amount of money and so far that seems to be the mis-named free to play games, where you have to buy items, powers or specific content.  They literally nickel and dime you to death and before you realize it, you're spending $100's a month instead of $15.

What we don't know so far is if this will really have an appeal on non-gamers or the current crop of casual gamers.  We do know it's quite popular with hardcores and the rich.  We also know that this method does not foster any sense of fair play, but then again, we already aren't seeing that in the current games that are  so fixated on their hardcore customers by giving them the best content and the best rewards, but still charging everyone the same subscription rate despite the essential denial of content.

zantax

I completely dissagree with the OP, the reason being is we are seeing CRAP being created for F2P MMO's.  Like one of the above posters said "Guild wars isn't really an MMO".  The reason people think every game should be F2P is because the quality of MMORPG's has gone down hill in a dramatic way.  When EQ was released it was polished quite a bit for the time, I am not saying it didn't have it's problems but being the only REAL choice out there untill Asheron's Call Came out helped its popularity.  You pay so that there is balancing in the game, new content...etc.  EQ lost this focus and started releasing expansion packs for sale, and this is where I think they shot themselves in the foot.  It is fine to release an expansion pack but not one a year come on?  Your updates should do that, that is why you pay 15$/month.  The only game with consistant monthly updates, content add ins and fixes to systems that were not working is Asherons Call.  Pretty much 10 years have passed since release and 1 update EVERY month, otherwise known as PATCH DAY.

Now don't get me wrong LOTRO and DDO are good as well, not really my cup of tea though.  Not as free flowing as AC was, too scripted and path orientated.  I always like the idea that I could go anywhere and do anything at any level, as long as the monsters would alow it.  Not to mention the random loot drops...ahhh the good old days.  Anyways...

I think P2P is still a good thing IF the game warrents it.  Otherwise the games should all be F2P with cash shops.  Either way I only thing P2P is stagnent because of the crap that is out there now.

nethervoid

Yeah!  And cable should be free!  Also I mean I pay for this phone and then I have to pay a monthly fee to use it?  WTF!!!  I spent 400 bucks on this thing!  And this paying monthly for TIVO, wtf is this?  I mean all it does is record stuff on to a hard drive for god's sake!  Insurance?  Monthly fee for that?  WTF do I get from that?  NOTHING!

Everything in life has a monthly fee.  When you get older you'll get more used to it.  It never feels any better, but if you're smart and plan well, you'll have the money to pay for it all and still have some left over for stuff like $5/gal gas.  lawl

deviliscious

Originally posted by Vrazule


Paying full price for expansions is not a bad model, but it doesn't make companies a whole lot of money and you are sadly mistaken if you think this is the route they will take.  If they go with a system, it will most likely be the one that makes them the most amount of money and so far that seems to be the mis-named free to play games, where you have to buy items, powers or specific content.  They literally nickel and dime you to death and before you realize it, you're spending $100's a month instead of $15.
What we don't know so far is if this will really have an appeal on non-gamers or the current crop of casual gamers.  We do know it's quite popular with hardcores and the rich.  We also know that this method does not foster any sense of fair play, but then again, we already aren't seeing that in the current games that are  so fixated on their hardcore customers by giving them the best content and the best rewards, but still charging everyone the same subscription rate despite the essential denial of content.

I am wealthy, and a hardcore gamer.. I do not mind monthly subs if it is a quality game but I have yet to see one that has that combination. I refuse to play games with an item shop, but then again what you fail to realize is that the wealthy are also intelligent and the scam of the item shop games is as blatent as the poor quality of the games that contain them.  You forget most of the wealthy did not obtain that wealth by being ignorant or gullable.

Larry2298

If you compare any F2P with Pirates of the Burning Sea, I agreed with you.

GreenChaos

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by Rollotamasi


Guild wars really isn't a MMO.  It doesn't require constant development.  

Guild wars is an mmorpg.. and they do updates  as well as holiday events.. just their game doesn't require alot of maintenence because it doesn't have alot of bugs to fix. It is a quality game with excellent customer service.The developers have a good mindset and I can't wait to see what they accomplish with guild wars2. See if more developers actually produced quality programs in the first place they would not need  to constantly have to work on it. I applaud them for what they accomplished with their first series, and if they put out this kind of quality with their first game .. I  certainly hope that they maintain that quality in the games to come.

Both of you are missing the reason guildwars doesn’t need subs.  All the action is instanced.  They require much less hardware and networking costs.  It’s basically Diablo with a graphical lobbies.  



Unless one of the expansions added open world PvE.

MrListerSir

Fee based gaming is the way of the future, the sooner you accept that reality, the better.

And that is a fact.

deviliscious

guild wars 2 will have less instanced and a persistant world .. and will not have monthly subs. I think alot of games feel threatened by this, therefore wish to not call it an " mmorpg" . But it is and it is quality.

Xiaoki

Guild Wars is not an MMORPG. Even Arena.net says it is not MMORPG.

Free to play(100% free, no Item Malls) MMOs make money in other ways and dont spend money on things subscription MMOs do.

Free MMOs generally have: very few servers, simplistic design, small amount of content, irregular updates, non-existant GMs, and pathetic customer service.

 

 

deviliscious

a mmorpg is a massive mulitplayer online role playing game .. and guild wars does fit into that catagory and thus is the reason it is listed as such on this site... what is your definition of an mmorpg? I mean it is preety obvious what should be in the genre in the title itself.

nethervoid

Originally posted by deviliscious


a mmorpg is a massive mulitplayer online role playing game .. and guild wars does fit into that catagory and thus is the reason it is listed as such on this site... what is your definition of an mmorpg? I mean it is preety obvious what should be in the genre in the title itself.

So I guess Diablo 2 is an MMORPG too?  How about online poker?  AOL chat rooms?  I mean where do we draw the line here?  If Guild Wars is an MMORPG, so is Call of Duty 4.

deviliscious

yes diablo2 should be considered an mmorpg ... because it is massive and multiplayer and you play a role... poker should not be because you are playing cards not a character in a role.

Sovrath

Originally posted by Rekindle


Some of you are going to call me crazy but I think we've all gone nuts paying $15 a month for a game.
If games like Guild Wars and other f2p (or one time fee) games can survive without monthly subs they all can survive without monthly sub.

Well, remember, Guild Wars was able to keep out the fees because a good part of the world was instanced between the players, therefore they can save money in a lot of other ways.

But for the record, I will gladly paly double, that's right DOUBLE to any mmo company that can deliver me a quality game, good customer service, frequent updates, customization, etc.

And where this is one of me there is also another.. and another.

So dev's... make a great game with great customer service and frequent updates and I will double my subscription fee and do it happily.

deviliscious

now agree with you on this that if they can deliever me a game with the content I want I would be willing to pay double triple hell i spend hundreds on games every month that I don't like .. give me one that I do and I will give them all the $ lol.

TheGreyMan

guild wars is instanced except for towns..so the severs are they.....no need for a sub....other mmo that claim to be free 2 play are not..they get there money via cash shop items...which theuy usually try and force you to buy

gorguk

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by Rollotamasi


Guild wars really isn't a MMO.  It doesn't require constant development.  

Guild wars is an mmorpg.. and they do updates  as well as holiday events.. just their game doesn't require alot of maintenence because it doesn't have alot of bugs to fix. It is a quality game with excellent customer service.The developers have a good mindset and I can't wait to see what they accomplish with guild wars2. See if more developers actually produced quality programs in the first place they would not need  to constantly have to work on it. I applaud them for what they accomplished with their first series, and if they put out this kind of quality with their first game .. I  certainly hope that they maintain that quality in the games to come.

GuildWars is NOT an MMO, I dont care that they slaped the mmo part to the box or not. A whole world thats instanced and the only time you really play with/see others (a city/town where you really dont do anything dont count) is in a group or in a battleground (still a group) can hardly be called a MMO. The first M is supposed to stand for MASSIVE... I cant really see how just a group of people is massive.. thats more like a LAN party.

Martinmas

If I have the choice between having to pay real money for in-game items, having to see advertising or having the games only MMOG part being held in the towns while the rest of the world is just a single player or co-op instance or paying $15 a month, I will take paying the $15.

 

I have tried a few of those free to play MMOGs and none of them have kept my interest very long.  I am not saying that those games are lower quality. They just did not entertain me.

 

 

Unknown

Originally posted by Rollotamasi


Guild wars really isn't a MMO.  It doesn't require constant development.  

GW says they plan on doing a f2p paradigm for GW2 which is supposed to be a more tradiational shared world.

 

Further the constant development line is BS.  You pay for access.  If they were charging for development they would just do expnasions.

 

EQ and EQ2 charge a monthly fee and for expansions.

 

And the final nail in the coffin is that when you sign up for a game like WoW or LOTRO you get whatever non-expansion content was put in during the patches without paying anything for them. 

 

The monthly fees are clearly for access since leaving and not paying gets you the same thing as continuing to pay.

 

The only difference between paying and not paying is that you get access to your characters.  Proving beyond any doubt or any silly marketing speak that you are in fact paying for access and nothing else.

 

The companies claim you are getting extra stuff for paying but what I said above proves that is not accurate.  It may be the case that without subscribers LOTRO could not provide the "free" content.  And Turbine is honest enough to say its "free" unlike Blizzard.

 

But by the rules of logic you are only paying for access its simply irrefutable.  Because like Turbine says the releases are "free" so when I don't pay for them I still get them when i pay for access.

tool089

Let's see... I pay 50 dollars and get a month of the game, and then pay 15 dollars a month afterwards.  Or I can buy that 60 dollar new 360 game that's so awesome, play it for a month, and then need to buy the next big game the next month.  I save money by keeping myself entertained with a never ending community based game.  Single player games and even online multiplayer for a console just gets old after a while.  It's all hosted games that are short, I want a continuous community and world to play in.  That's why I pay 15 dollars a month to keep up maintenance on the servers and patching the game's bugs.

If you don't like the fee, play games like GW or runescape, but you honestly have to see the difference between those games and WoW or LOTRO...

deviliscious

Now it is funny some  games I play that noone debates their mmorpg status has less people than guild wars and you are left fighting the same people over and over again .. that does not seem massive at all.. On guild wars in random arenas  I hardly every fight the same people twice in a row.. and in every town I meet new  people. even guild battles yes I fight alot of the same guilds over , but not always the same players. and the pvp areas are not instanced. I was told guild wars2 will be having alot of the features I was looking for in my next mmorpg, why these others with more $ comming in have yet to accomplish that is beyond me ..

afroburzing

I agree with paying a monthly fee and even paying that on top of a 40$ game.  What I do NOT agree with is WoW's system of making you pay for expansion packs on top of it all which are 99% required to play the game.  CCP Games have the best system IMO.  EvE is free to download and you pay your 15$ a month.. no price to buy the game or expansions.. ever.

afoaa

GW can work because its a multiplayer online game but not a MMO. It takes very little server power or bandwith to run since most of the game is run by your own PC back home. They more or less just provide the network your PC game use to be in contact with other players. Its a very smart model but it also means you cannot have the open massive multiplayer worlds that people love to be in.

Free to play games are not free. They are designed so the free part shall hook you and after that you have to pay up if you really want to play it seriously. And often you end up paying a great deal more than you do subscription based games. Only exception is games paid by adds.

Pay to play games most of the time signify quality of product and it also create a more stable continuity in the game than you see in FtP games. You also see better customer support and lately a trend to add more and more "free" stuff into the game too (which of course isnt really free since you pay for it via your subscriptions).

All in all both types of games will exist and will attract different people but FtP will not push out PtP games, simply becase their model will not be attractive to many many customers.