McDonald's has no meal for $25 with a waiter and wine, Ford designs most of its cars for the working class(I know they have 1 or 2 exotic cars, but that doesn't keep them in business), Mercedes isn't concerned if the blue collar workers will never ride in one let alone own one, that fancy pizza joint down the road doesn't care if you're not interested in buying a pizza for $25. Somehow all these guys are in business, and make money even though they cater to a select taste, and or lifestyle. Why can MMO devs not do this? Every game tries to cater to every style. IMO, if they just stuck to one philosophy we'd have a much better selection.
mcdonalds serves individuals, ford serves individuals, mmorpgs serve mass communities, enetertainment districts in sities serve mass communities. Entertainment districts have many different things to offer many different people to keep them entertained. You cannot compare a massively multiplayer game to a car that serves one person, you have to compare it to something that entertains the masses. If games were designed more like las vegas, then you could find something for everyone in one spot. People like more than one thing, they like to do more than one thing, so focusing a game on one thing gets old no matter how entertaining it may be at first. Some clubs have heavy metal, some have country, some have r&b .. all on one street... allowing all types of people to find their favorite hangout in the same area. If developers used that kind of thinking it could make a better game for everyone.
McDonald's has no meal for $25 with a waiter and wine, Ford designs most of its cars for the working class(I know they have 1 or 2 exotic cars, but that doesn't keep them in business), Mercedes isn't concerned if the blue collar workers will never ride in one let alone own one, that fancy pizza joint down the road doesn't care if you're not interested in buying a pizza for $25. Somehow all these guys are in business, and make money even though they cater to a select taste, and or lifestyle. Why can MMO devs not do this? Every game tries to cater to every style. IMO, if they just stuck to one philosophy we'd have a much better selection.
mcdonalds serves individuals, ford serves individuals, mmorpgs serve mass communities, enetertainment districts in sities serve mass communities. Entertainment districts have many different things to offer many different people to keep them entertained. You cannot compare a massively multiplayer game to a car that serves one person, you have to compare it to something that entertains the masses. If games were designed more like las vegas, then you could find something for everyone in one spot. People like more than one thing, they like to do more than one thing, so focusing a game on one thing gets old no matter how entertaining it may be at first. Some clubs have heavy metal, some have country, some have r&b .. all on one street... allowing all types of people to find their favorite hangout in the same area. If developers used that kind of thinking it could make a better game for everyone.
You're making no sense. MMOs serves individuals as much as McDonalds serves communities. Last time I checked the masses use a car, and eat french fries. Individuals make up the masses, therefore, multinational businesses serve the masses.
You're saying there are different clubs for different types of music. Yes, but there are no different type of MMOs for different types of taste.
not everyone in the community eats at mcdonalds, I don't. Not everyone rides in a that car at once, what I am saying is that in order to be massive multiplayer you have to have massive amounts of people in one place. mcdonalds does not do this, they try to get you out of there fast by design. We do not want turnover in games what is wrong with making games that people actually want to stay a while? You get the players there and keep them there rather them having to buy all sorts of games to quench their different tastes. Why compare an entertainment district? because you have massive amounts of people in one place at the same time like you do in an mmo. That is the perfect comparison because you have many different types of people in one place at the same time that like different things that are there seeking entertainment. can that exact same sentence be applied to any mmo? yes we are there for entertainment. If that concept was actually applied to mmos, it would be a huge success.
Allow us to play with our real life friends. The fact is that our real life friends all like differnt things. I like hardcore pvp, One of my friends likes crafting and could care less about pvp, my other friend like gaining tons of items, my other friend likes quests. The point is with the current market there is no "ONE" game that we can all play together because they all are lacking in some of the features. I want a game that we can all play and enjoy it, instead of making each other suffer through games that some of us don't like. Allowing players to play with their real life friends also includes having enough in the game to offer different types of players so that we can all enjoy it.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
I hear a lot of things I agree with about catering to diversity. One thing that made me lose interest (mostly) in Guild Wars is that the only thing you can do is grind through quests, and that's almost entirely combat. And if you've been through the content with one character, it gets painful fast to try and level-up another character since it's all linear and scripted.
I'd like to see games move away from level-based mechanics entirely. There are other forms of progression that don't cause as many problems. I guess I'm just an old curmudgeon, because a lot of people seem to be ok with level grinding their lives away.
I just came up with this today while talking with a co-worker about gaming. As we all know, there is a dilemma that devs face about how challenging to make an MMO. There is a casual crowd out there that has a limited amount of time each week to devote to playing. Despite this, they want to be able to advance and enjoy all the aspects that the game has to offer. I can certainly understand this. On the other hand, there are those (and I would probably qualify for this group) who feel that if they're going to take the time to play, they might as well be pushed to the limits. Make advancement tough, make acquiring gear a real challenge, etc. it's tough to do both in one game. How about this? This may not be a new idea, but I have never heard it before and neither had my co-worker. Allow for two different advancement trees within the same game. Make a tougher one that takes longer to complete and a shorter one that is a little easier. Once you decide to pursue one, that's the tree you lock yourself into for the remainder of that character. Quick example. Let's suppose it takes ten thousand experience points to advance your character to the 2nd level. And let's say this is the tougher of the two trees. So when your character gained, say, 7500 xp pts, he would be given option to choose the easier of the two advancement trees. And if so, he would then become a lvl two character upon reaching 7500 xp pts. From then on, he would be locked into the easier of the two trees and each successive level would require about the same percentage of xp pts to advance as the tougher route. But there would be a trade off to choosing this route. 75% off the xp pts to advance would mean gaining 75% of the benefits. Instead of your hit points increasing by 20, they would increase by 15. Your damage output would increase by about 75% of the tougher route, etc. My friend saw some problems with this idea. The first was that the casuals would be complaining about better stats that the tougher route offers. But, imo, they would have no right to complain. They could still choose the tougher tree if they wanted and get the same benefits, it would just take them longer to advance. So I knocked objection out of the water. But he did have an objection that makes a little more sense. Mob comparison. A level 10 character who went the easier route, seemingly, would not be able to face the same mobs as a level 10 character who chose the tougher route. Maybe, maybe not. There may be a way to compensate for this, not sure yet. And of course, PvP would be skewed as well. But hey, we know that higher lvl characters gank lowbies in PvP all the time, so would this be totally unfair? Finally, I would like to close by saying that I would probably not use this formula if I made a game because my game would be a skill-based advancement game, not a level-based one. I merely offer it as a possible solution to existing games which are overwhelmingly level-based.
You seem to be mixing time and hardness together as one concept.
The fact is they are quite quite different. Another fact is that there are two types of people who don't want to spend all day every day playing a game. Some of them want to mop the floor with everything they see in a perpetual orgy of ass kicking and others would like to get through by the skin of their teeth or feel that their is some sort of skill involved.
Harcore doesn't mean anything at all its just a term used for people's own vanity. So meh on that part. In fact most supposed hardcores are the whiniest little bitches I have ever seen.
These things never get anywhere because people never differentiate between time and hardness. And the "hardcore" come in and brag about how awesome they are to make up for their small penis size in real life. And then it degenerates even farther.
The fact of the matter is that 10,000 xp is completely arbitrary and has nothing to do with "tough". Its a matter of personal preference as to how long things should take. Some people don't like 3 hour long movies is that because they are wussies?
I mean it really should be objectively obvious that you are advocating for rewarding time played and nothing else. I mean patience may be a virtue but these are games, why should person A get his leg cut off because he like a faster paced game than person B?
This sort of stuff should be an indictment of the whole MMORPG world. Time=power. Not intelligence, not skill just your willingness to grind. Its gotten so bad that otherwise normal people have started to think along the lines of MMORPG logic and actually believe time played = hardness. If you tried to say that to a normal person in real life about real life things they would look at you like you are crazy. I mean seriously how did people get mixed up? I seriously doubt anyone believes preposterous stuff like this before they played MMOs. Stop and think about it for a moment. Does any of this really make any kind of real sense?
No it doesn't. The only reason it even has the illusion of making any sense is because we, as humans , describe some arduous or painful things as "hard" instead of "trying". But guess what? You don't feel pain or fatigue in MMORPGs. They aren't even "trying" they are just boring. The only thing to overcome is the monotony.
Even the raider cult knows that they have to make some kind of argument that doesn't invovle time to justify getting better rewards. Why do you think they make the unsupportable argument that its obviously harder even though none of them can ever actually prove that?
Casual gamers want to make progress in an hour's time of play. Hardcore gamers want freedom. All games, I believe, (and whether they realize it or not) want consequences for their in-game mistakes (i.e., a death penalty that stings just at least just a little.) You must have a death penalty or all fights become mundane and all rewards feel less meaningful. Risk and Reward go together; one without the other is not good. Solution: 1) Racial starting areas, meaning NO stupid in-game tutorial. Tooltips suffice to show someone how to move or attack. If population shrinks over time, don't consolidate the noob area into an artificial tutorial, rather merge a server if necessary. 2) Few and meaningful quests. Quests should be additional fun and challenging activities, not a trivial grind and the main focus of the game. 3) Bring back the experience grind, but make it as fast as games that are quest grinds. With the threat of the sting of death, players will always be somewhat alert and excited with each challenging fight. Plus, as they group and rely upon one another, this will build the in-game community. 4) In most cases, monsters should be as tough as they look. A dinosaur should be tougher than a deer. (None of this WOW-type stuff of having a 16th level dinosaur in the same zone as a 17th level ostrich. C'mon). 5) Dungeons should be for the hardcore; those who want to group and take a couple or more hours to play. 6) Instancing should be limited. 7) Any mechanic to ease play should be weighed carefully before introduction. While players may complain that it takes time to traverse the Plans of Such-and-such, they will probably be happier than if instant teleports are placed around for no sensible reason. Dangerous travel is part of the adventure. 8) Backstory is okay in a game, and important to explain the NPC and city structure of the world, but players should never be forced down some scripted story arc. The characters are not in a "story", they are in a "world." For example, it is much more fun to freely wander Middle Earth (at your own peril) than to have some artifical constraint saying, "You can't go to the Mirkwood yet, because you haven't completed Chapter 4 and you're still in Chapter 2. 9) Definition: TRAINS. The foolish mistakes of other players should have some possible impact on their peers. For example, if a group of noobs pulls too many monsters and they start to run your way, there should be a possibility of some of the monsters aggroing on your group. After all, if you share the world you share the risks. 10) Death penalty that stings (as previously mentioned). 11) Wandering mobs, and maybe at least one overly-tough mob per zone or area, to keep folks on their toes as they grind. Ex.: That giant werewolf in DAOC, Thid-side, or the werewolf or griffin in EQ's Karanas and Commonlands, respectively. Of course, there are many other ingredients that can go into a great MMORPG, but they all should be sensible, serious (mostly), and appropriate to the game setting. Just my two coppers on the topic.
Comments
mcdonalds serves individuals, ford serves individuals, mmorpgs serve mass communities, enetertainment districts in sities serve mass communities. Entertainment districts have many different things to offer many different people to keep them entertained. You cannot compare a massively multiplayer game to a car that serves one person, you have to compare it to something that entertains the masses. If games were designed more like las vegas, then you could find something for everyone in one spot. People like more than one thing, they like to do more than one thing, so focusing a game on one thing gets old no matter how entertaining it may be at first. Some clubs have heavy metal, some have country, some have r&b .. all on one street... allowing all types of people to find their favorite hangout in the same area. If developers used that kind of thinking it could make a better game for everyone.
mcdonalds serves individuals, ford serves individuals, mmorpgs serve mass communities, enetertainment districts in sities serve mass communities. Entertainment districts have many different things to offer many different people to keep them entertained. You cannot compare a massively multiplayer game to a car that serves one person, you have to compare it to something that entertains the masses. If games were designed more like las vegas, then you could find something for everyone in one spot. People like more than one thing, they like to do more than one thing, so focusing a game on one thing gets old no matter how entertaining it may be at first. Some clubs have heavy metal, some have country, some have r&b .. all on one street... allowing all types of people to find their favorite hangout in the same area. If developers used that kind of thinking it could make a better game for everyone.
You're making no sense. MMOs serves individuals as much as McDonalds serves communities. Last time I checked the masses use a car, and eat french fries. Individuals make up the masses, therefore, multinational businesses serve the masses.You're saying there are different clubs for different types of music. Yes, but there are no different type of MMOs for different types of taste.
/boggle
not everyone in the community eats at mcdonalds, I don't. Not everyone rides in a that car at once, what I am saying is that in order to be massive multiplayer you have to have massive amounts of people in one place. mcdonalds does not do this, they try to get you out of there fast by design. We do not want turnover in games what is wrong with making games that people actually want to stay a while? You get the players there and keep them there rather them having to buy all sorts of games to quench their different tastes. Why compare an entertainment district? because you have massive amounts of people in one place at the same time like you do in an mmo. That is the perfect comparison because you have many different types of people in one place at the same time that like different things that are there seeking entertainment. can that exact same sentence be applied to any mmo? yes we are there for entertainment. If that concept was actually applied to mmos, it would be a huge success.
You are also forgetting the video game commandments.
http://digg.com/gaming_news/The_7_Commandments_All_Video_Games_Should_Obey_2
Allow us to play with our real life friends. The fact is that our real life friends all like differnt things. I like hardcore pvp, One of my friends likes crafting and could care less about pvp, my other friend like gaining tons of items, my other friend likes quests. The point is with the current market there is no "ONE" game that we can all play together because they all are lacking in some of the features. I want a game that we can all play and enjoy it, instead of making each other suffer through games that some of us don't like. Allowing players to play with their real life friends also includes having enough in the game to offer different types of players so that we can all enjoy it.
Darkfall
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
*Nods head vigorously*
I hear a lot of things I agree with about catering to diversity. One thing that made me lose interest (mostly) in Guild Wars is that the only thing you can do is grind through quests, and that's almost entirely combat. And if you've been through the content with one character, it gets painful fast to try and level-up another character since it's all linear and scripted.
I'd like to see games move away from level-based mechanics entirely. There are other forms of progression that don't cause as many problems. I guess I'm just an old curmudgeon, because a lot of people seem to be ok with level grinding their lives away.
Jason
The fact is they are quite quite different. Another fact is that there are two types of people who don't want to spend all day every day playing a game. Some of them want to mop the floor with everything they see in a perpetual orgy of ass kicking and others would like to get through by the skin of their teeth or feel that their is some sort of skill involved.
Harcore doesn't mean anything at all its just a term used for people's own vanity. So meh on that part. In fact most supposed hardcores are the whiniest little bitches I have ever seen.
These things never get anywhere because people never differentiate between time and hardness. And the "hardcore" come in and brag about how awesome they are to make up for their small penis size in real life. And then it degenerates even farther.
The fact of the matter is that 10,000 xp is completely arbitrary and has nothing to do with "tough". Its a matter of personal preference as to how long things should take. Some people don't like 3 hour long movies is that because they are wussies?
I mean it really should be objectively obvious that you are advocating for rewarding time played and nothing else. I mean patience may be a virtue but these are games, why should person A get his leg cut off because he like a faster paced game than person B?
This sort of stuff should be an indictment of the whole MMORPG world. Time=power. Not intelligence, not skill just your willingness to grind. Its gotten so bad that otherwise normal people have started to think along the lines of MMORPG logic and actually believe time played = hardness. If you tried to say that to a normal person in real life about real life things they would look at you like you are crazy. I mean seriously how did people get mixed up? I seriously doubt anyone believes preposterous stuff like this before they played MMOs. Stop and think about it for a moment. Does any of this really make any kind of real sense?
No it doesn't. The only reason it even has the illusion of making any sense is because we, as humans , describe some arduous or painful things as "hard" instead of "trying". But guess what? You don't feel pain or fatigue in MMORPGs. They aren't even "trying" they are just boring. The only thing to overcome is the monotony.
Even the raider cult knows that they have to make some kind of argument that doesn't invovle time to justify getting better rewards. Why do you think they make the unsupportable argument that its obviously harder even though none of them can ever actually prove that?
Darkfall has what it takes!
I like your ideas alot.