PvP and perma-death

KaltesHerz

A few things before I get into this discussion.

 

---I've never been a big fan of PvP. Personally I think people that get their rocks off at "killing" other players have some issues. I'll not go into full details of why I think this, so don't bother replying to this part of thread. I will NOT respond to this.

---The only time I've ever pvp'd is when I thought I had to in order to progress in the game, or because my guild/alliance needed me.

 

 

Now on with the meat and potatoes.

I read nearly all the threads and posts about actual game mechanics I can from as many websites as I can. Which pretty much means I have no life and that's fine by me. I've had a life, and drunk a driver took it all away so ehh, off topic.

 

With that being said, there are a few constants that most people can agree on. (there are exceptions, but they're extremely few and far between, and in many instances, borked or not any fun.)

#1. PvP serves no purpose other than to show who has the bigger epeen.

#2. There's no real risk and no real reward at the end.

#3. Griefers and how to combat them.

 

This is how pvp is designed in my game.

Free for all, you can kill anyone, at any time. However, in the "Patrolled Sectors", whether in space, on the ground, or in cyberspace when you kill someone in non-consentual pvp you automatically get flagged and a "radio" transmission is sent to all other players who have opted to have the police band turned on. Players with the police band turned on will be given the killers name and last known location. The killers "flag" isn't a visible one. What this does however is allow any player with the police band activated to kill the killer without repercussions. I'm using the "police band" as just a generic description. Skills in the game will allow/aid in the tracking of the killer and in heavily populated planets with high law levels (law level is a planetary statistic based on the NPC government of that planet) the killer may be targetted by even NPCs.

 

In the Patrolled Sectors there is a 1% chance of your toon dying permanently in PvP. It will never get higher than that 1% in the Patrolled Sectors part of the game.

In the "Fringe" of space, there is no repercussions for killing another player. The police band doesn't function in the Fringe. However the fringe holds untapped riches that you just can't find in the overcrowded and over populated areas of the Patrolled Sectors.

 

There are certain weapons in the game that are so destructive and devastating that the chances of perma-death increase. And dying in certain ways increases these amounts as well. Dying by having your anti-matter reactor destabalize creates such a massive explosion that the GCN has a hard time transferring your "self" to a clone. Combining certain types of deaths with certain weapons increases total perma-death chances to 8%.

 

8% is not a massive number, but after doing several thousand random die rolls with an app I wrote that does nothing but make certain kinds of die rolls and tell me how often certain numbers are hit, I felt it was a reasonable amount of risk.

 

When you die (not perma-death) one item of choice can be looted from your body. If you perma-die and your body hasn't been totally obliterated everything can be looted from your body, and your ship if you are in one can be taken as well.  Damaged ships can be salvaged as well. When you die in pvp space combat your ship is gone. Pve space combat it just gets severely damaged (depending on circumstances).

Ships can be insured.

 

Perma-death doesn't mean starting 100% all over.

 

An idea from my daughter. In my design during the game you can start a virtual family. You can marry a player, or through questing you can marry an NPC. After a while you can have kids, and how you deal with your kids determines their personalities and later in life their skills. Providing the family with money and a good home will net you good results. (with tons of variables, like how safe is the planet you're on, is it a farming planet etc.) This is not something you have to do 24 hours a day. Come home occasionally, kick the wife and kiss the dog, put some money into the maitenance pool, speak with family every once in a while and you're good unless you want to do more. Family can also grant you information, like the npc wife/hubby may tell you something random they heard while out shopping which could lead you to something cool. Or your kids might get kidnapped etc.

 

What this all means however, is the better you take care of your family, the better off you'll be if you perma-die because at that point you can opt to take control of one of your kids. You won't start off as skilled as you were when you died, but you'll still have money, any stored items, plus the knowledge that you'll get revenge soon enough which to me plays on the pathos of a pissed off child coming to avenge a fallen family member.

 

Female players who opt for the family life will eventually appear pregnant, but will not have any negative side-effects of it. AND NO, YOU CAN'T SEE THE MAD MONKEY LOVE LoL.

 

There is also race wars and guild wars. The different races of the Patrolled Sectors occasionally get pissed at their neighbors and declare war. At that point whatever races are at war with each other can pvp without repercussions. Perma-death is only 1% in the Patrolled Sectors regardless. Same with player guilds, and considering you can take over entire planets and conquer planets (you can control planets in the patrolled sectors if you have a larger number of guild members on any one planet, but you can only conquer planets in the fringe) Player guilds can declare war on each other and at that point its FFA with no repercussions.

 

I forgot what else I was going to say.

What do you all think?

 

Flaming will get you reported, if your reading comprehension sucks, don't bother, and don't try to guess if I haven't posted it here. If I elaborated 100% the post would be much much longer than it already is.

 

Legitimate questions will be answered, flames will get you reported.

 

 

 

 

funnylumpy

which game is you're talking about? EVE?

KaltesHerz

Originally posted by KaltesHerz


 

This is how pvp is designed in my game.

 

Flaming will get you reported, if your reading comprehension sucks, don't bother, and don't try to guess if I haven't posted it here. If I elaborated 100% the post would be much much longer than it already is.

 

Legitimate questions will be answered, flames will get you reported.

 
 
 
 

 

funnylumpy

ah sry I missed that it was your own game you were talking about... good luck to you...

nariusseldon

I don't want to play this game.

I doubt many would want to play it. It would be niche, at best.

KaltesHerz

Originally posted by nariusseldon


I don't want to play this game.
I doubt many would want to play it. It would be niche, at best.

Why?

 

If you're going to state something, give a reason.

 

You know nothing about the game other than this, and yet you're already preaching that it wouldn't succeed. Hell and I've worked in the MMO industry and thought I had some good insider info.

 

Ozmodan

The problem with perma death is that players do get disconnected and how in the world do you handle such a case.  There is no way to distinquish the difference from a disconnected player and one who logs off intentionally.  Recognizing the limitation of the medium, is paramount when designing a game and disconnects are a big limitation, especially when it involves such a touchy subject as perma death.

I just don't think you will many who will play such a game.

Oh and most of us pvp for the challenge.  A good pvp game does not let equipment have great affect on the outcome, skill should be the determining factor.

mike470

Hello there.  First, I would like to wish you luck on the future development of your game. Now, onto the topic....

How will the looting work?  Personally, I believe a player should lose their most valuable item on them.  Having people loose one item randomly could lead to problems, such as people carrying around a large amount of one, unexpensive object do they will not lose their most valuable object.  It would be an unfair disadvantage for the PKer to go through all the trouble to kill them, and then be rewarded by a useless item.

As for the perma death at 1%, I am not very fond of this idea.  This would be unfair to people who died once and were permanantly killed, as for their friend who died 99 times and still alive.  I have always liked the idea of "If you die X amount of times, you will be permanently dead".  This will make it even throughout all players.  I also believe that newly subscribes members should have about a week or two before they are open to the PVP (if the game has levels, that is).  NOTE-  I am not much of a fan of perma-death, I just do not think it is a good idea.

Now, onto the families.  I really don't like this idea.  I would find it kind of like a hassle, to have to take time out of my activities to actually have to take care of a family.  This is extremely bad for a casual player, who only has, say, 2 hours a day online.  Most casual players would not enjoy tending to a family, when they would rather be out playing the game enjoying themselves.  Having a family in an MMORPG is just a hassle, especially for casual players.

If I were to do perma death---

I still believe that if you are going to have perma-death, do NOT have it at a percentage, but a certain number of deaths.  If you die, say, 5 times, you are permanently dead. 

 Now that you have permanently been killed, you do not start over.  Instead, you have a choice of what skills you would like to give your new character, and you have a choice of 5 abilities.  You are able to bring down several abilities to the new character you have (in your case, the "son or daughter" of a family).  You choose the abilities, and you know have these skills for your new character (the skills you picked are, mabye, dodging, or alchemy, etc). 

_________________________________________________________

I sure hope this helps, but we seem to be forgetting a major issue when it comes to open PvP and perma death: Abusive and constant killing of players (AKA ganking).

It is always important not to have too much ganking.  I suppose that it would be neccessary to have races not have the ability to attack eachother.  But, then again, if you have open PVP, that would be challenging to implement.  I suppose it would be important to join a guild, and somehow make it so members of guilds cannot attack eachother.

 

Hope this helps, I wish you best of luck on developing you game.

Edit-  Oh, and I reccommend you try posting this in the developers' corner in the PVP section as well.

KaltesHerz

Originally posted by Ozmodan


The problem with perma death is that players do get disconnected and how in the world do you handle such a case.  There is no way to distinquish the difference from a disconnected player and one who logs off intentionally.  Recognizing the limitation of the medium, is paramount when designing a game and disconnects are a big limitation, especially when it involves such a touchy subject as perma death.
I just don't think you will many who will play such a game.
Oh and most of us pvp for the challenge.  A good pvp game does not let equipment have great affect on the outcome, skill should be the determining factor.

Agreed about the disconnects, however there is a large section of the pvp community that WANTS perma-death, and it's getting bigger. This is also why my daughters idea of family within the game was/is/will be implemented. (which you probably didnt read that section, or much else for that matter if youre the average poster)

 

Now, why do you think equipment will be the deciding factor for anything in my game? I did NOT allude to this at all. Other than certain weapons have a better chance of causing perma-death.  Hell you get hit with a Stellar Converter that's strong enough to destroy a planet,,, well you're toast.

 

/shrugs.

Anyway, something I've found while in the industry is that when there is a -genuine- risk, people tend to not take those risks, and the ones that do take the risk, don't care.

 

KaltesHerz

Originally posted by mike470


Hello there.  First, I would like to wish you luck on the future development of your game. Now, onto the topic....
How will the looting work?  Personally, I believe a player should lose their most valuable item on them.  Having people loose one item randomly could lead to problems, such as people carrying around a large amount of one, unexpensive object do they will not lose their most valuable object.  It would be an unfair disadvantage for the PKer to go through all the trouble to kill them, and then be rewarded by a useless item. I actually said "When you die (not perma-death) one item of choice can be looted from your body. If you perma-die and your body hasn't been totally obliterated everything can be looted from your body, and your ship if you are in one can be taken as well. "


As for the perma death at 1%, I am not very fond of this idea.  This would be unfair to people who died once and were permanantly killed, as for their friend who died 99 times and still alive.  I have always liked the idea of "If you die X amount of times, you will be permanently dead".  This will make it even throughout all players.  I also believe that newly subscribes members should have about a week or two before they are open to the PVP (if the game has levels, that is).  NOTE-  I am not much of a fan of perma-death, I just do not think it is a good idea.  I chose a percentage because of the fact that the "self" transfer system sometimes borks up, and the fact that the AI that controls it has an attitude issue. Much more than this and I give away story elements. But I'll take note, and this is why I'm putting my ideas out to begin with, to see some geniune feedback.


Now, onto the families.  I really don't like this idea.  I would find it kind of like a hassle, to have to take time out of my activities to actually have to take care of a family.  This is extremely bad for a casual player, who only has, say, 2 hours a day online.  Most casual players would not enjoy tending to a family, when they would rather be out playing the game enjoying themselves.  Having a family in an MMORPG is just a hassle, especially for casual players. I actually said "Come home occasionally, kick the wife and kiss the dog, put some money into the maitenance pool, speak with family every once in a while and you're good unless you want to do more." I didn't elaborate and there are some elements that I probably should have elaborated on but was trying to keep it as short as possible with as much info as possible.


If I were to do perma death---
I still believe that if you are going to have perma-death, do NOT have it at a percentage, but a certain number of deaths.  If you die, say, 5 times, you are permanently dead. 
 Now that you have permanently been killed, you do not start over.  Instead, you have a choice of what skills you would like to give your new character, and you have a choice of 5 abilities.  You are able to bring down several abilities to the new character you have (in your case, the "son or daughter" of a family).  You choose the abilities, and you know have these skills for your new character (the skills you picked are, mabye, dodging, or alchemy, etc). 
_________________________________________________________
I sure hope this helps, but we seem to be forgetting a major issue when it comes to open PvP and perma death: Abusive and constant killing of players (AKA ganking).
It is always important not to have too much ganking.  I suppose that it would be neccessary to have races not have the ability to attack eachother.  But, then again, if you have open PVP, that would be challenging to implement.  I suppose it would be important to join a guild, and somehow make it so members of guilds cannot attack eachother.
"Patrolled Sectors", whether in space, on the ground, or in cyberspace when you kill someone in non-consentual pvp you automatically get flagged and a "radio" transmission is sent to all other players who have opted to have the police band turned on. Players with the police band turned on will be given the killers name and last known location. The killers "flag" isn't a visible one. What this does however is allow any player with the police band activated to kill the killer without repercussions. I'm using the "police band" as just a generic description. Skills in the game will allow/aid in the tracking of the killer and in heavily populated planets with high law levels (law level is a planetary statistic based on the NPC government of that planet) the killer may be targetted by even NPCs."--- And you can't be rez camped because you go to cloning facility much like in AO or SWG guarded by NPCs. I hate rez camping bastages. If everyone in the galaxy that has the police band turned on knows who is murdering other players, it won't be long till they are dead themselves.


 
Hope this helps, I wish you best of luck on developing you game.
Edit-  Oh, and I reccommend you try posting this in the developers' corner in the PVP section as well. Will be done shortly

I've always liked your posts.

mike470

Originally posted by KaltesHerz

Originally posted by mike470


Hello there.  First, I would like to wish you luck on the future development of your game. Now, onto the topic....
How will the looting work?  Personally, I believe a player should lose their most valuable item on them.  Having people loose one item randomly could lead to problems, such as people carrying around a large amount of one, unexpensive object do they will not lose their most valuable object.  It would be an unfair disadvantage for the PKer to go through all the trouble to kill them, and then be rewarded by a useless item. I actually said "When you die (not perma-death) one item of choice can be looted from your body. If you perma-die and your body hasn't been totally obliterated everything can be looted from your body, and your ship if you are in one can be taken as well. "
Oh, thank you for calrifying that.  I seemed to have misread several points.  Sorry.



As for the perma death at 1%, I am not very fond of this idea.  This would be unfair to people who died once and were permanantly killed, as for their friend who died 99 times and still alive.  I have always liked the idea of "If you die X amount of times, you will be permanently dead".  This will make it even throughout all players.  I also believe that newly subscribes members should have about a week or two before they are open to the PVP (if the game has levels, that is).  NOTE-  I am not much of a fan of perma-death, I just do not think it is a good idea.  I chose a percentage because of the fact that the "self" transfer system sometimes borks up, and the fact that the AI that controls it has an attitude issue. Much more than this and I give away story elements. But I'll take note, and this is why I'm putting my ideas out to begin with, to see some geniune feedback.
I still don't believe that it is fair for some players to die 50 times and still keep their character, while other times a player can die once and have top play on their "son or daughter".


Now, onto the families.  I really don't like this idea.  I would find it kind of like a hassle, to have to take time out of my activities to actually have to take care of a family.  This is extremely bad for a casual player, who only has, say, 2 hours a day online.  Most casual players would not enjoy tending to a family, when they would rather be out playing the game enjoying themselves.  Having a family in an MMORPG is just a hassle, especially for casual players. I actually said "Come home occasionally, kick the wife and kiss the dog, put some money into the maitenance pool, speak with family every once in a while and you're good unless you want to do more." I didn't elaborate and there are some elements that I probably should have elaborated on but was trying to keep it as short as possible with as much info as possible.
Well, I'm sure that it is fun to to kick the wife (hell, may as well throw a punch in there too!) 
My point was that when casual players log on, they will not really enjoy spending their precious time gaming having to tend to their family.  Unfortunately, if they do not spend a lot of time kicking their wife, then their family will not develop as great as the person with more time.  Now, when the casual player permanently dies, he will be forced to play a less-skilled "son" because he was out playing the game.



If I were to do perma death---
I still believe that if you are going to have perma-death, do NOT have it at a percentage, but a certain number of deaths.  If you die, say, 5 times, you are permanently dead. 
 Now that you have permanently been killed, you do not start over.  Instead, you have a choice of what skills you would like to give your new character, and you have a choice of 5 abilities.  You are able to bring down several abilities to the new character you have (in your case, the "son or daughter" of a family).  You choose the abilities, and you know have these skills for your new character (the skills you picked are, mabye, dodging, or alchemy, etc). 
_________________________________________________________
I sure hope this helps, but we seem to be forgetting a major issue when it comes to open PvP and perma death: Abusive and constant killing of players (AKA ganking).
It is always important not to have too much ganking.  I suppose that it would be neccessary to have races not have the ability to attack eachother.  But, then again, if you have open PVP, that would be challenging to implement.  I suppose it would be important to join a guild, and somehow make it so members of guilds cannot attack eachother.
"Patrolled Sectors", whether in space, on the ground, or in cyberspace when you kill someone in non-consentual pvp you automatically get flagged and a "radio" transmission is sent to all other players who have opted to have the police band turned on. Players with the police band turned on will be given the killers name and last known location. The killers "flag" isn't a visible one. What this does however is allow any player with the police band activated to kill the killer without repercussions. I'm using the "police band" as just a generic description. Skills in the game will allow/aid in the tracking of the killer and in heavily populated planets with high law levels (law level is a planetary statistic based on the NPC government of that planet) the killer may be targetted by even NPCs."--- And you can't be rez camped because you go to cloning facility much like in AO or SWG guarded by NPCs. I hate rez camping bastages. If everyone in the galaxy that has the police band turned on knows who is murdering other players, it won't be long till they are dead themselves.


 So, if I get this straight, then attacking someone in a place guarded by NPCs, then you will become like an outlaw.  All the NPCs will jump on the chance to attack you.
My question is, will there be spots where you can kill without consequences?  Certain spots, like the forests, where there are no guards and if you kill a player, you are free of harm (from NPCs)?
Hope this helps, I wish you best of luck on developing you game.
Edit-  Oh, and I reccommend you try posting this in the developers' corner in the PVP section as well. Will be done shortly

I've always liked your posts.  I feel honored.

 

KaltesHerz

So, if I get this straight, then attacking someone in a place guarded by NPCs, then you will become like an outlaw.  All the NPCs will jump on the chance to attack you.  This depends on the law level of a particular planet you happen to be on. Severely underdeveloped planets, or player owned planets who opt to set a low law level means the NPCs will just turn their backs, HOWEVER the killer will still be flagged by the police band and NPCs on other planets will attack you, right along with players.  There are exceptions, racial wars, and guild wars. After thinking about it though, race wars will not cause perma-death as it will most likely be all NPC generated.  The only exception to this is the "Fringe", UNLESS you happen to be on a player controlled planet with a high law level.

 

It also just dawned on me that I didn't state this sooner., that perma-death can ONLY occur in pvp. So dying by NPCs is nothing to worry about.

My question is, will there be spots where you can kill without consequences?  Certain spots, like the forests, where there are no guards and if you kill a player, you are free of harm (from NPCs)? You'll never be "truly" free from harm, NPCs still wonder around. The Fringe is ultra dangerous, The Patrolled Sectors will be fairly safe except from random murderers. Even these guys won't last long as they'll need to spend time to skill up their character (no levels) in order to actually be functional enough to kill a player.

 

For family, in SWG I went back to my home once a week at most and dumped loot. Once a week for this system isn't asking for much, at all. As in ANY game, the more time you do something, the better you get or the rewards there are. This goes for casual gamers and hard core gamers. While I consider myself a casual gamer myself, I recognize that someone that does 10 times more than me deserves 10 times more rewards. So for family, you're going to get what you invest.

mike470

Originally posted by KaltesHerz



Fair enough, I understand this concept.
Sorry for giving you such a hassle, but I would like to think I am helping...
Key phras "like to think"....

So, if I get this straight, then attacking someone in a place guarded by NPCs, then you will become like an outlaw.  All the NPCs will jump on the chance to attack you.  This depends on the law level of a particular planet you happen to be on. Severely underdeveloped planets, or player owned planets who opt to set a low law level means the NPCs will just turn their backs, HOWEVER the killer will still be flagged by the police band and NPCs on other planets will attack you, right along with players.  There are exceptions, racial wars, and guild wars. After thinking about it though, race wars will not cause perma-death as it will most likely be all NPC generated.  The only exception to this is the "Fringe", UNLESS you happen to be on a player controlled planet with a high law level.
 Thanks for clarifying more.  The problem I see with this is that NPCs will NEVER leave the player alone.  When I kill someone, I agree there should be consequences, but I do not want tthese NPCs to burden me throughout my time of gaming.  From what it sounds like, even if I kill another player when NO ONE is looking and no one is able to tell that I did it, I will still be attacked.  This would take away the sense of sneak that I would try to do when being an assassin and killing some other guy that kicked my wife.....
Your post also brought up an important point about how the guards will be attacking.  If the guards are too easy, then I will simply be able to take them all out without any consequences and I will be free (unless there are more).  But if there are too many, then I will have no chance of escape and I will be killed weith no chance (like Oblivion).
It sounds to me, that with the concepts you have stated here, that your game needs a jail.
It also just dawned on me that I didn't state this sooner., that perma-death can ONLY occur in pvp. So dying by NPCs is nothing to worry about.
Wouldn't this take away from the risk of PVP?  If I can kill someone and give them a chance at permanently dying, yet when I will die from an NPC guard (as a consequence of killing someone) I will not lose my items?  That seems like I could just kill people and just let the guards kill me instead of other players.


My question is, will there be spots where you can kill without consequences?  Certain spots, like the forests, where there are no guards and if you kill a player, you are free of harm (from NPCs)? You'll never be "truly" free from harm, NPCs still wonder around. The Fringe is ultra dangerous, The Patrolled Sectors will be fairly safe except from random murderers. Even these guys won't last long as they'll need to spend time to skill up their character (no levels) in order to actually be functional enough to kill a player.
 Like I said above, I don't want to be constantly burdened by guards.
For family, in SWG I went back to my home once a week at most and dumped loot. Once a week for this system isn't asking for much, at all. As in ANY game, the more time you do something, the better you get or the rewards there are. This goes for casual gamers and hard core gamers. While I consider myself a casual gamer myself, I recognize that someone that does 10 times more than me deserves 10 times more rewards. So for family, you're going to get what you invest.

KaltesHerz

I apologize if I sound snappy, I'm old and cranky. Young by some standards, but old, very old in other ways so I'm scroogish, or however my daughter puts it.

 

You ARE helping, the only input I've had over the years have been close friends and family that have played my PnP version of this game, an they all swear by it. I appreciate their feedback, but they're fanbois and well to me a devout fanboi isn't worth their weight in gold when it comes to feedback.

 

The problem I see with this is that NPCs will NEVER leave the player alone.  When I kill someone, I agree there should be consequences, but I do not want tthese NPCs to burden me throughout my time of gaming.  From what it sounds like, even if I kill another player when NO ONE is looking and no one is able to tell that I did it, I will still be attacked.  This would take away the sense of sneak that I would try to do when being an assassin and killing some other guy that kicked my wife.....This falls into putting as much info into as small amount of text as I can. Meaning I should've elaborated more.  NPCs will only kill a criminal once, however the murderer flag will stay till a player kills them.  I've thought long and hard about "witnesses" but the idea of this isn't just necessarily for the sake of reality, it's a way to prevent griefers, while still allowing it to some extent open world pvp. Some of these aspects are subject to change.  After thinking about it, making pvp totally guild based is probably the better answer. Only guilds that had flipped the FFA pvp could free for all with other guilds with the same setting. And by joining that kind of guild you've given 100% consent. Another type of guild could be "War" Guilds that can only pvp with guilds they have specifically declared war with, that way no other guild regardless of setting can interfere. The 3rd type could be No pvp, and put the switches on timers so they can only be changed once every 24 hours and a message is sent out to everyone involved about the setting change. Probably a better idea..... Could do away with griefing all the way around.

Your post also brought up an important point about how the guards will be attacking.  If the guards are too easy, then I will simply be able to take them all out without any consequences and I will be free (unless there are more).  But if there are too many, then I will have no chance of escape and I will be killed weith no chance (like Oblivion).

It sounds to me, that with the concepts you have stated here, that your game needs a jail. Guards and their strengths are determined by many things. If you're on a backwater planet it will most likely just be a few local militia that attack you, and you'll probably roll them over. Again this is affected by law level. High law levels will have more and better trained guards.-----------------------------------------

 

Most of the rest of this is moot if I go with the guild related pvp.  As for NPCs not causing perma-death. I was meaning in the Pve environment they can't cause perma-death.
 
Thanks for making me think. How's your economics? Something else I've been working on is a 100% player driven economy, where once guilds get big enough they'll even be able to mint their own money. This is the idea, but I haven't quite ironed it out on how it's going to work. The base PnP game that everything translates back and forth from just uses money from each of the individual races.
What I want though, is to actually have the players "control" the money.

mike470

Originally posted by KaltesHerz


I apologize if I sound snappy, I'm old and cranky. Young by some standards, but old, very old in other ways so I'm scroogish, or however my daughter puts it.
 
You ARE helping, the only input I've had over the years have been close friends and family that have played my PnP version of this game, an they all swear by it. I appreciate their feedback, but they're fanbois and well to me a devout fanboi isn't worth their weight in gold when it comes to feedback.
 
This falls into putting as much info into as small amount of text as I can. Meaning I should've elaborated more.  NPCs will only kill a criminal once, however the murderer flag will stay till a player kills them.  I've thought long and hard about "witnesses" but the idea of this isn't just necessarily for the sake of reality, it's a way to prevent griefers, while still allowing it to some extent open world pvp. Some of these aspects are subject to change. 
What I meant was that if I kill someoen without witnesses, then that means I will still be chased by guards, even though they did not catch me in the action.  I understand that it will stop griefers, but nobody wants to be too scared to go to town because the guards will kill them, that just ruins it.  Whiel I do agree it should be flagged, I don't think that guards should automatically know when you've killed someone.
 After thinking about it, making pvp totally guild based is probably the better answer. Only guilds that had flipped the FFA pvp could free for all with other guilds with the same setting. And by joining that kind of guild you've given 100% consent. Another type of guild could be "War" Guilds that can only pvp with guilds they have specifically declared war with, that way no other guild regardless of setting can interfere. The 3rd type could be No pvp, and put the switches on timers so they can only be changed once every 24 hours and a message is sent out to everyone involved about the setting change. Probably a better idea..... Could do away with griefing all the way around.
Well, only guild based PVP could turn out interesting I suppose.  I thinkt hat PVP should be set by the leader of the planet, and each planter changes the rules (I believe you stated that somewhere before).





 
 
Your post also brought up an important point about how the guards will be attacking.  If the guards are too easy, then I will simply be able to take them all out without any consequences and I will be free (unless there are more).  But if there are too many, then I will have no chance of escape and I will be killed weith no chance (like Oblivion).
It sounds to me, that with the concepts you have stated here, that your game needs a jail. Guards and their strengths are determined by many things. If you're on a backwater planet it will most likely just be a few local militia that attack you, and you'll probably roll them over. Again this is affected by law level. High law levels will have more and better trained guards.
I see, but always having guards attack you can be very annoyiung.  I believe a jail should be there, because in high law level planets, this could be a punishment for breaking the law.  Of course, if they choose to try to escape the law, the guards may kill them, beat them, etc
 
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Most of the rest of this is moot if I go with the guild related pvp.  As for NPCs not causing perma-death. I was meaning in the Pve environment they can't cause perma-death.
 I agree, perma-deatth should not be caused by the PvE envirenment, but it should be possible for guards to cause perma-death.
Thanks for making me think. How's your economics? Something else I've been working on is a 100% player driven economy, where once guilds get big enough they'll even be able to mint their own money. This is the idea, but I haven't quite ironed it out on how it's going to work. The base PnP game that everything translates back and forth from just uses money from each of the individual races.
What I want though, is to actually have the players "control" the money.
Try the developers' corner under "Economics".  I'm not very good with them, but usually you will get good feedback there.

As for economics, I reccommend you go to the developers' corner under the section "Economics".  You will usually get great feedback there, as economics is not one of my strong points.

Also, sorry for the late reply.

KaltesHerz

Going completely guild based pvp means I don't have to worry about the police band and using that which removes a lot of coding to some extent, and puts in even more in another aspect.

 

At the end however I think it would be the best route. I never thought about planetary based pvp where the leader/owner of a planet sets the type of pvp. I don't see that as being hard to implement either. Another good idea. I'll eventually compress these ideas and present them anew.

 

In the "Fringe" of the patrolled sectors PvP will still be free for all unless I add in the planet part and owners decide pvp can't be done on their planet.

 

I actually meant that NPCs can't cause perma-death in a pve environment, however if being attacked by NPCs due to a pvp environment than yeah they can cause perma-death.

 

There won't be a need for NPCs attacking anyone because of PvP if I go the guild route. This would do away with griefing 100%, because if you join a pvp guild then you've given 100% consent, and you'll have plenty of notice to leave a guild if they change the settings.

 

Going to go make a few posts in the devs section.