"Simple minded people like simple minded games. I'm glad your having fun paying to beta test the game for the Xbox 360." Owch!!!...Damn, talk about distilling it down to it's simplest terms...You have, in essence, NAILED IT! Touche!
Ah yes the SMART peoples arguement, ie This game sucks because i said so and anyone that doesn't agree with me is simple minded.
Thank you for your reasoned logical agruement, and for delivering us from ever having to form our own opinions. Because you sir are always right! Please do tell us all what food to eat, what cloths to wear, and Who to vote for in the next election. Quick question, does one start as a game Nazi, or does one end there?
I also posted this in a new thread. Just popped it here incase you miss that.
The following information from Game Director Gaute Godager is about the plans for the near future.
Fellow Hyborians!
As you may have noticed we have had frequent patches the last two weeks. We hope this will soon start to quiet down, but as long as there are major issues – and there have been – we will dedicate the Conan team to fixing them and giving you these fixes as soon as possible! We have a plan on how to move this game forward because as you know, what you have today is but the platform – the dawn of this world. I hope you enjoy the game as is, but I can ensure you, this is but the beginning!
Our focus from now on can be summarized by these points:
We will add content, specifically in mid-late thirties and mid-late fifties and make the leveling speed smoother in those areas, reducing the need to grind.
We will have an overhaul of the PvP system – adding consequence and a host of small things.
We are fixing bugs you reported through all channels we can get information from.
We will add a new large outdoor region in the 55-60 range this summer!
This is only a small taster! More information about the exciting summer and fall Roadmap will come the end of the next week!
We are staffing up Customer Service, Quality Assurance and Community departments!
I will spend some words on a bit more details now.
1. Filling “thin areas” in our content
We have seen that there are certain level ranges of these Hyborian Adventures that do not have the amount of quality we wish them to have. Most specifically these are the end of the Thirties and the end of the Fifties level ranges. We are addressing this in several ways.
Several mid-late thirties dungeons are getting a complete overhaul (Black Castle, Pyramid of the Ancients and Treasury of the Ancients)
Several quests are being made fuller and more entertaining. If people wish to revisit these quests, we will add a system to let them try them out again.
we are adding first a batch of quests in Eiglophian Mountains (lvls 55+)
We are also adding in a bunch of quests that didn’t quite make it for launch in the 30+ areas.
Around 60 quests through the game have been flagged as “Lore Quests”. They will now be patched out with full Voice-Over. (Roughly 1 quest per level after level 20)
All this will come in June! In July the first level 80 additional Dungeon will be patched out. More on that later…
2. Overhauling the PvP System
People like our open PvP system. There are many plans on how to give this open free PvP even more meaning and Purpose. In the meantime we will be doing some smaller tweaks, and we plan to get these out sometimes in June. I will not go into 100% detail here, but that will come next week! What I can promise is:
An update on how sneaking and perception works in PvP (nothing major, but an adjustment).
A change in the amount of information you get when you hover over an other player.
An added system of consequence to “ganking”. (Killing much-much lower level players).
A system of adding consequence to losing a PvP match, and winning a PvP match + turning on PvP Leveling.
A change in how Crowd Control (Root, Knockback etc) works in PvP.
PvP gear.
3. New Massive Region
We will unveil this location later, but it will feature a host of quests, new monsters and places of dreams or horror. It will be styled towards the players in the late 50s and bridge the experience on the way to Atzels Approach. We have plans for releasing several of the areas that didn’t quite make it for the release.
4. Fixing bugs and increasing Customer Service
Funcom has always prided ourselves with having great customer satisfaction. The success so far for this title has left us with the need to increase the size of CS. This will go in parallel with the constant fixing of bugs and other issues that lead people to petition. Included in this is even better testing of the game by increasing the size of Quality Assurance and informing you better about changes by staffing up the Community Department. I know a blurb like this will haunt me always, but I will still venture one: We aren’t satisfied until all our customers are! You know we had a very, very difficult launch of Anarchy-Online! That was a very painful process for all of us working on it – 4 years. You might not understand how driven we are to make sure you enjoy this game, and all the support around it!
The future is very bright for Hyboria. There will be many bright mornings following this, the very first. Together we shall surge ahead and build the world even bigger, better and more detailed!
I have no idea why some people expect so much of the MMO genre. It's a game genre just like any other.
Ninja Gaiden on NES 20 years ago had lifebars and powerups. The Ninja Gaiden that released on Xbox 360 the other day has lifebars and powerups. A thousand other action games have lifebars and powerups.
Like come on, every genre of gaming out there there's certain common conventions that are a must have. It's what defines the game as belonging to their particular genre.
Clickable abilities, health bars, even instancing, zoning, and etc. are things that define the MMO genre.
They're basic elements that are to be built ontop of. If you write 'em off, you've written the whole genre off, and waste your time by waiting on an MMO that contradicts what the entire genre is based on.
There is nothing wrong with wanting new and innovative things. No matter what field you may be speaking of. Actually, the very argument you make stagnates the development of any field of creation or study. Sorry but i do always hope that people want and expect new and innovative things. That is the mind set that has put man on the moon, created energy out of atoms, and cured many of the worlds deadliest diseases. So yes, people will complain and hope for more from game makers, we hope, as they are the leaders in this field, that they will create something new and innovative.
There is nothing wrong with wanting new and innovative things. No matter what field you may be speaking of. Actually, the very argument you make stagnates the development of any field of creation or study. Sorry but i do always hope that people want and expect new and innovative things. That is the mind set that has put man on the moon, created energy out of atoms, and cured many of the worlds deadliest diseases. So yes, people will complain and hope for more from game makers, we hope, as they are the leaders in this field, that they will create something new and innovative.
There's plenty wrong with overexpectations from the MMO genre.
The moon landing is cool, but what we have on these boards are the equivalent of people bitching about how long its taking to get to Neptune.
Quite simply, everyone wants a perfect, seamless, round globe, virtual reality representation of whatever theme or IP an MMO is based off of. Complete with gorgeous graphics and one server that'll support millions of subscribers.
Dontcha think the companies would make that if they could? There's an idea of perfection for every genre of gaming. Leaps like Grand Theft Auto IV in the sandbox action genre are appreciated, but not perfect.
Really, the only ones that suffer from overexpectations are the ones who harbor them. The most despised MMOs out there are still churning hundreds of thousands of players back and forth, and all signs point to Age of Conan doing the same, if not enjoying the churn of a million or two.
It just seems like self-torture to me to hate an MMO for features and ailments that're ingrained in the genre as a whole, yet still claim to love the genre despite there not being a game worth playin'.
There is no denying the inherent technological limitations placed on MMO's...but that being said. Often when a game feels less alive, real, and small it tends to be the fault of the game developer for not being more creative and innovative with the tools at hand...its not that these systems are inherent and necessary in MMO's its just that game creators arent being more intelligent and creative with the tools at hand. NASA made it to space (and still does) on some rather primitive technology....its not so much the tools or the devices at hand, its the lack of proper implementation.
There is no denying the inherent technological limitations placed on MMO's...but that being said. Often when a game feels less alive, real, and small it tends to be the fault of the game developer for not being more creative and innovative with the tools at hand...its not that these systems are inherent and necessary in MMO's its just that game creators arent being more intelligent and creative with the tools at hand. NASA made it to space (and still does) on some rather primitive technology....its not so much the tools or the devices at hand, its the lack of proper implementation.
You could have 200 people right on top of each other in 1998.
Funcom instances to save money by having less server hardware by having less zones to make. Why spend the time making large, high capacity zones if you can smash everyone into 5 copies of the same small one?
Simple minded people like simple minded games. I'm glad your having fun paying to beta test the game for the Xbox 360.
You do realize there is no real complexity in games right?
The fact you may think you have deeper thoughs than someone that plays a game you dont like dont show you are a deeper person, it only show you are arrogant and probably shallow.
See, if we were talking about Titus Andronicus or Der Ring des Nibelungen I would understand, but we are talking about games.
There is no complexity in MMOs, there is expression, entertainment, fun factor, and just a little bit of art, and really, if you are feeling better about yourself based on the games you like, you are just delusional.
Well, and if you think someone need to test a game for a closed system like the Xbox360 using PCs, you really dont know what you are talking about.
...
^ This guy tries too hard.
If there is 'no complexity' in games then how can you even compare the term complexity? Are you saying that Pong is just as complex as Chess? If not then you prove that complexity in games does exist.
Stop trying to over-analyze it and impress then get back down to earth. Many games are extremely complex and others are simple. Simple minded people like simple minded games, that's logical. Heart surgeons and garbage men most likely don't favor the same activities.
Simple minded people like simple minded games. I'm glad your having fun paying to beta test the game for the Xbox 360.
You do realize there is no real complexity in games right?
The fact you may think you have deeper thoughs than someone that plays a game you dont like dont show you are a deeper person, it only show you are arrogant and probably shallow.
See, if we were talking about Titus Andronicus or Der Ring des Nibelungen I would understand, but we are talking about games.
There is no complexity in MMOs, there is expression, entertainment, fun factor, and just a little bit of art, and really, if you are feeling better about yourself based on the games you like, you are just delusional.
Well, and if you think someone need to test a game for a closed system like the Xbox360 using PCs, you really dont know what you are talking about.
...
^ This guy tries too hard.
If there is 'no complexity' in games then how can you even compare the term complexity? Are you saying that Pong is just as complex as Chess? If not then you prove that complexity in games does exist.
Stop trying to over-analyze it and impress then get back down to earth. Many games are extremely complex and others are simple. Simple minded people like simple minded games, that's logical. Heart surgeons and garbage men most likely don't favor the same activities.
When you started to use the pong vs chess analogy in MMO vs MMO, you know the one that tried too hard wasnt me right?
Really, I have no reason to impress anyone here and I truly hope you dont want to impress too, because Im sure if you try to use your "simple/complex mind" theory outside this forum you probably wont get any serious attention.
Again, if you found an extremely complex MMO, you just have a comprehension issue and deluded yourself.
When you used the surgeon vs garbage men analogy you just confirmed my point .
Simple minded people like simple minded games. I'm glad your having fun paying to beta test the game for the Xbox 360.
You do realize there is no real complexity in games right?
The fact you may think you have deeper thoughs than someone that plays a game you dont like dont show you are a deeper person, it only show you are arrogant and probably shallow.
See, if we were talking about Titus Andronicus or Der Ring des Nibelungen I would understand, but we are talking about games.
There is no complexity in MMOs, there is expression, entertainment, fun factor, and just a little bit of art, and really, if you are feeling better about yourself based on the games you like, you are just delusional.
Well, and if you think someone need to test a game for a closed system like the Xbox360 using PCs, you really dont know what you are talking about.
...
^ This guy tries too hard.
If there is 'no complexity' in games then how can you even compare the term complexity? Are you saying that Pong is just as complex as Chess? If not then you prove that complexity in games does exist.
Stop trying to over-analyze it and impress then get back down to earth. Many games are extremely complex and others are simple. Simple minded people like simple minded games, that's logical. Heart surgeons and garbage men most likely don't favor the same activities.
When you started to use the pong vs chess analogy in MMO vs MMO, you know the one that tried too hard wasnt me right?
Really, I have no reason to impress anyone here and I truly hope you dont want to impress too, because Im sure if you try to use your "simple/complex mind" theory outside this forum you probably wont get any serious attention.
Again, if you found an extremely complex MMO, you just have a comprehension issue and deluded yourself.
When you used the surgeon vs garbage men analogy you just confirmed my point .
...
I'm going to ignore your pointless, watered-down insults and stick to the issue.
It's not a matter of finding a 'complex' MMO because that term is relative. There's no way to declare something factually 'complex.' You can, however, state that one MMO is more complex than another, which a 4 year old can see. Go play EVE online and tell me its not any more complex than Pong.
Simple minded people like simple minded games. I'm glad your having fun paying to beta test the game for the Xbox 360.
You do realize there is no real complexity in games right?
The fact you may think you have deeper thoughs than someone that plays a game you dont like dont show you are a deeper person, it only show you are arrogant and probably shallow.
See, if we were talking about Titus Andronicus or Der Ring des Nibelungen I would understand, but we are talking about games.
There is no complexity in MMOs, there is expression, entertainment, fun factor, and just a little bit of art, and really, if you are feeling better about yourself based on the games you like, you are just delusional.
Well, and if you think someone need to test a game for a closed system like the Xbox360 using PCs, you really dont know what you are talking about.
...
^ This guy tries too hard.
If there is 'no complexity' in games then how can you even compare the term complexity? Are you saying that Pong is just as complex as Chess? If not then you prove that complexity in games does exist.
Stop trying to over-analyze it and impress then get back down to earth. Many games are extremely complex and others are simple. Simple minded people like simple minded games, that's logical. Heart surgeons and garbage men most likely don't favor the same activities.
When you started to use the pong vs chess analogy in MMO vs MMO, you know the one that tried too hard wasnt me right?
Really, I have no reason to impress anyone here and I truly hope you dont want to impress too, because Im sure if you try to use your "simple/complex mind" theory outside this forum you probably wont get any serious attention.
Again, if you found an extremely complex MMO, you just have a comprehension issue and deluded yourself.
When you used the surgeon vs garbage men analogy you just confirmed my point .
...
I'm going to ignore your pointless, watered-down insults and stick to the issue.
It's not a matter of finding a 'complex' MMO because that term is relative. There's no way to declare something factually 'complex.' You can, however, state that one MMO is more complex than another, which a 4 year old can see. Go play EVE online and tell me its not any more complex than Pong.
Netzoko, there is no insult in my words, if you felt that way you should think about the way you judged some people here, what I said to you was not in a lower level than what you said to me. Really, if you want some respect and not feel insulted, try not to do the same.
Yes, I played EvE as I played a lot of MMOs and now Im playing Age of Conan, while I can see some really good aspects in EvE gameplay, I also can see a deep sense of artistic style and good details in AoC´s music, landscapes, well written quests and the uniqueness of combat.
But again, if you think AoC is for simple minds and EvE is for deep thoughs you should think again.
The garbage men vs surgeon analogy showed you indeed feel you are better and deeper just for the games you play.
Where I live, a garbage men can barely survive and buy his own food, he is not a garbage men because he has a lesser mind, the issue goes far beyond that, and you showed a simple mind attitude when you used this analogy.
Again, Im not insulting you, but may I ask, did you insult someone here?
There is nothing wrong with wanting new and innovative things. No matter what field you may be speaking of. Actually, the very argument you make stagnates the development of any field of creation or study. Sorry but i do always hope that people want and expect new and innovative things. That is the mind set that has put man on the moon, created energy out of atoms, and cured many of the worlds deadliest diseases. So yes, people will complain and hope for more from game makers, we hope, as they are the leaders in this field, that they will create something new and innovative.
There's plenty wrong with overexpectations from the MMO genre.
The moon landing is cool, but what we have on these boards are the equivalent of people bitching about how long its taking to get to Neptune.
Quite simply, everyone wants a perfect, seamless, round globe, virtual reality representation of whatever theme or IP an MMO is based off of. Complete with gorgeous graphics and one server that'll support millions of subscribers.
No, they've done it before. People want them to do it again. Ultima Online, the first big MMO, was seamless. DAoC was seamless. Vanguard is seamless. It's possible, it just doesn't get nearly as much money as the WoW clones.
No, they've done it before. People want them to do it again. Ultima Online, the first big MMO, was seamless. DAoC was seamless. Vanguard is seamless. It's possible, it just doesn't get nearly as much money as the WoW clones.
Guild Wars, Everquest 2, DDO and AoC, they are all zoned or instanced, and if you take them without misconceptions you would realize they are less similar to world of warcraft than DAoC.
Instances and zones work well with storyline quests, a very good example of that is Unrest in Everquest 2.
Zoned, instanced or seamless is just a game design approach, it has nothing to do with WoW.
If someone enjoy share quests and storylines with some friends some times a zoned or instanced world will work better, and this approach has nothing to do with WoW, it is a RPG concept, the idea of quests and storyline should be even more present in mmoRPGs
Vanguard is a good example of seamless world but for some reasons you cant compare the 2D world of UO with any 3D mmorpg, even if you compare the 2D world of UO with the gorgeous 2D world of Sacred you will notice how primitive is UO.( not bashing UO, the game was fun and a nice step for mmos)
-Not the lag. -Not the customer support. -Not lack of content.
What's wrong with AoC? It's TSOC.... The.Same.Old.Crap that we continue to buy again and again. You log into health bars and buttons, go on a linear Kill 10 Bunny quests in an instanced, psuedo-single player world until you run out of them, then cancel your account. Stop buying EQ clones people, it's the only reason they're still making crap like this. These games are nothing more than wateredown single player adventure games with chat boxes.
All mmorpgs can potentially be considered copies of earlier games, even your precious EvE has its roots in games such as Elite, Jumpgate, Homeworld etc. EQ clones? EQ was essentially a copy of a multitude of rgp's and MUDs. Original ideas are rare, you can't just make a statement like that and apply it solely to AoC ignoring all the other mmorpgs, or even all the other games, on the market...how many are, in all honesty, truly original?
What we get nowadays, for better or for worse, is games with different flavours rather than being completely unique entities in their own right and this applies to all genres, not just mmorpg's.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Who are you to say that the creators of AoC are any less talented then shakespear, plato, newton? The amount of time, effort, money and sheer talent that creates these games is staggering!
I have to chuckle at this. Why not throw in Einstein, Leonardo Da Vinci, Descartes, and Jesus. They all deserve to be right up there with game developers.
I believe some other poster said it best (I think I read it on this site). Even if all the cooks have the same material, the soup will still taste different. It does't matter that some ideas are getting rehashed, as long as each generation adds something to the previous one.
oo brother ,any company that focus their effort too mutch on graphic because we complain about graphic quality isnt very smart.we will see about this when siege things begin but if the beginning of this game is any indication i think this game probably have good chance to crash and burn
reason:i think they made the best graphic marvel of today,but the content as of yet is shall i say leanto say the least
i dont count quest as content cause all the game have them lol,i would have counted them if they at least would have benn pvp-quest but i doubt we ll see that,unless blizzard do it cause only they have the financial strengh to take a risk
men i can see this:wow2 doing pvp-quest .aaarrrg i hate to say this but only blizzard can take a risk on pvp-quest.
I'm not sure what you're implying but don't expect Blizzard to do something tha twill not be popular among its players. Their content usually caters to as much players as possible.
dont sweat it pvp-quest is the future so even if i and all of us dont know how to add it believe me they will cause everyone is fed up of meaningless quest ,we call it grinding to death.and if they dont find a new way to put fresh life in quest thing ,mm people will go away from the grind in the long run.
FURY and GUILDWARS begins to be tempting again for some reason lol.
-Not the lag. -Not the customer support. -Not lack of content.
What's wrong with AoC? It's TSOC.... The.Same.Old.Crap that we continue to buy again and again. You log into health bars and buttons, go on a linear Kill 10 Bunny quests in an instanced, psuedo-single player world until you run out of them, then cancel your account. Stop buying EQ clones people, it's the only reason they're still making crap like this. These games are nothing more than wateredown single player adventure games with chat boxes.
So what you want is a MMORPG that does what? How do you expect to progress? Maybe an MMO will come out that doesn't have levels, everyone starts at max level, best gear, highest stats, and yea you just log in to either PvP or are instantly teleported to the entrance of a Raid dungeon...
We dont use the keyboard to use our skills, as we only have 1 skill. You push the left mouse button to use your one skill and never lose life or have to use mana for casting spells. Honestly go play RTS's or FPS's...oh wait those have buttons you push and health bars..woopS!! maybe a "Sports" MMO would suit your tastes better.
I mean honestly why dont you lay out your plan for the greatest MMO that will completely revolutionize the genre, Develop it, and release it so we can see what kinda dream world your living in.
I play AoC and I agree content and systems are lacking right now. But the Combat, FFA PvP, diverse classes, graphics, and the soundtrack keep me enthralled. You sound like you need a MMO to replace your real life, good luck in waiting for it.
AoC is getting a huge unfair press ihn my opinion. Its a competant game with excellent graphics but I think the marketing / Hype machine that just seems to get bigger and bigger with every big budget release has created a false expectation that this game will break the traditional mould and be something very different. Never was it going to meet those expectations and therefore a lot of people are unhappy.
The game does try some new ideas but it is true that it is another variant on a well worn fantasy theme.
Rather than attack the mechanics of a game, i think we have had a huge amount of variance in MMO's but they have failed to grab the imagination due to awful execution.
SWG - an excellent game premise that captures the interest of a massive fan base. Had a rocky launch but accelerated quickly. NGE came along and killed the passion and investment that so many had put inot the game up to that point. Where would it be if they had no done that?
Matrix Online - what a great new environment to play with. Almost a real world seeting ( somewhat a founder for SOE's "Agency" game thats forthcoming. Even if you take out the film connection, this game had huge potential but executions was dire. It failed to take off in earnest
Tabula Rasa - another new premise. A war based game that could have captured a counterstrike type fanbase. Again the mass marketing hype similar to AoC created an expectation that could only let people down.
I would love for a develop to create a new style of environment (drop the fantasy formula - no one will successfully differentiate themselves from EQ2 and WOW for that style now) but be honest about what your game is and make it as accessbile and diverse as possible.
Once the initial peak of subscription is over, it would be new class types and races with new starting areas that would make me try again. More factions so its not just a good vs evil through 2 camps. Lets have more moral choices that may take whole quest ladders out of use depending on which way you develop your char. Lets have mounts that fight with us. Lets have gunslinger style chars like the FF games.
There are a ton of ways to still innovate in this genre, thank god, but developers are driven to instant mass market appeal. There is no such thing as a wow beater - its too large. Wow will slowly dilute over a long long period of time but that game is a generation changer. The next real big thing is a game that can stand aside WOW in a new space. Everything else becomes a niche game.
weird to see so many drama queens over a game, a rollercoaster ride is still a ride after said and done.
They are so rabid about their hate because this is the first game that has actually effected WoW despite these shills saying "I don't play WoW" or "AoC isn't effecting WoW" They do, it is and at the end of the day that is what it's all about.
Comments
Thank you for your reasoned logical agruement, and for delivering us from ever having to form our own opinions. Because you sir are always right! Please do tell us all what food to eat, what cloths to wear, and Who to vote for in the next election. Quick question, does one start as a game Nazi, or does one end there?
I also posted this in a new thread. Just popped it here incase you miss that.
The following information from Game Director Gaute Godager is about the plans for the near future.
Fellow Hyborians!
As you may have noticed we have had frequent patches the last two weeks. We hope this will soon start to quiet down, but as long as there are major issues – and there have been – we will dedicate the Conan team to fixing them and giving you these fixes as soon as possible! We have a plan on how to move this game forward because as you know, what you have today is but the platform – the dawn of this world. I hope you enjoy the game as is, but I can ensure you, this is but the beginning!
Our focus from now on can be summarized by these points:
I will spend some words on a bit more details now.
1. Filling “thin areas” in our content
We have seen that there are certain level ranges of these Hyborian Adventures that do not have the amount of quality we wish them to have. Most specifically these are the end of the Thirties and the end of the Fifties level ranges. We are addressing this in several ways.
All this will come in June! In July the first level 80 additional Dungeon will be patched out. More on that later…
2. Overhauling the PvP System
People like our open PvP system. There are many plans on how to give this open free PvP even more meaning and Purpose. In the meantime we will be doing some smaller tweaks, and we plan to get these out sometimes in June. I will not go into 100% detail here, but that will come next week! What I can promise is:
3. New Massive Region
We will unveil this location later, but it will feature a host of quests, new monsters and places of dreams or horror. It will be styled towards the players in the late 50s and bridge the experience on the way to Atzels Approach. We have plans for releasing several of the areas that didn’t quite make it for the release.
4. Fixing bugs and increasing Customer Service
Funcom has always prided ourselves with having great customer satisfaction. The success so far for this title has left us with the need to increase the size of CS. This will go in parallel with the constant fixing of bugs and other issues that lead people to petition. Included in this is even better testing of the game by increasing the size of Quality Assurance and informing you better about changes by staffing up the Community Department. I know a blurb like this will haunt me always, but I will still venture one: We aren’t satisfied until all our customers are! You know we had a very, very difficult launch of Anarchy-Online! That was a very painful process for all of us working on it – 4 years. You might not understand how driven we are to make sure you enjoy this game, and all the support around it!
The future is very bright for Hyboria. There will be many bright mornings following this, the very first. Together we shall surge ahead and build the world even bigger, better and more detailed!
Yours truly,
Gaute Godager
Game Director
Age of Conan, Funcom
SHOHADAKU
Complaining about health bars in an MMO?
I have no idea why some people expect so much of the MMO genre. It's a game genre just like any other.
Ninja Gaiden on NES 20 years ago had lifebars and powerups. The Ninja Gaiden that released on Xbox 360 the other day has lifebars and powerups. A thousand other action games have lifebars and powerups.
Like come on, every genre of gaming out there there's certain common conventions that are a must have. It's what defines the game as belonging to their particular genre.
Clickable abilities, health bars, even instancing, zoning, and etc. are things that define the MMO genre.
They're basic elements that are to be built ontop of. If you write 'em off, you've written the whole genre off, and waste your time by waiting on an MMO that contradicts what the entire genre is based on.
There is nothing wrong with wanting new and innovative things. No matter what field you may be speaking of. Actually, the very argument you make stagnates the development of any field of creation or study. Sorry but i do always hope that people want and expect new and innovative things. That is the mind set that has put man on the moon, created energy out of atoms, and cured many of the worlds deadliest diseases. So yes, people will complain and hope for more from game makers, we hope, as they are the leaders in this field, that they will create something new and innovative.
There's plenty wrong with overexpectations from the MMO genre.
The moon landing is cool, but what we have on these boards are the equivalent of people bitching about how long its taking to get to Neptune.
Quite simply, everyone wants a perfect, seamless, round globe, virtual reality representation of whatever theme or IP an MMO is based off of. Complete with gorgeous graphics and one server that'll support millions of subscribers.
Dontcha think the companies would make that if they could? There's an idea of perfection for every genre of gaming. Leaps like Grand Theft Auto IV in the sandbox action genre are appreciated, but not perfect.
Really, the only ones that suffer from overexpectations are the ones who harbor them. The most despised MMOs out there are still churning hundreds of thousands of players back and forth, and all signs point to Age of Conan doing the same, if not enjoying the churn of a million or two.
It just seems like self-torture to me to hate an MMO for features and ailments that're ingrained in the genre as a whole, yet still claim to love the genre despite there not being a game worth playin'.
There is no denying the inherent technological limitations placed on MMO's...but that being said. Often when a game feels less alive, real, and small it tends to be the fault of the game developer for not being more creative and innovative with the tools at hand...its not that these systems are inherent and necessary in MMO's its just that game creators arent being more intelligent and creative with the tools at hand. NASA made it to space (and still does) on some rather primitive technology....its not so much the tools or the devices at hand, its the lack of proper implementation.
You could have 200 people right on top of each other in 1998.
Funcom instances to save money by having less server hardware by having less zones to make. Why spend the time making large, high capacity zones if you can smash everyone into 5 copies of the same small one?
-------------------------
You do realize there is no real complexity in games right?
The fact you may think you have deeper thoughs than someone that plays a game you dont like dont show you are a deeper person, it only show you are arrogant and probably shallow.
See, if we were talking about Titus Andronicus or Der Ring des Nibelungen I would understand, but we are talking about games.
There is no complexity in MMOs, there is expression, entertainment, fun factor, and just a little bit of art, and really, if you are feeling better about yourself based on the games you like, you are just delusional.
Well, and if you think someone need to test a game for a closed system like the Xbox360 using PCs, you really dont know what you are talking about.
...
^ This guy tries too hard.
If there is 'no complexity' in games then how can you even compare the term complexity? Are you saying that Pong is just as complex as Chess? If not then you prove that complexity in games does exist.
Stop trying to over-analyze it and impress then get back down to earth. Many games are extremely complex and others are simple. Simple minded people like simple minded games, that's logical. Heart surgeons and garbage men most likely don't favor the same activities.
-------------------------
You do realize there is no real complexity in games right?
The fact you may think you have deeper thoughs than someone that plays a game you dont like dont show you are a deeper person, it only show you are arrogant and probably shallow.
See, if we were talking about Titus Andronicus or Der Ring des Nibelungen I would understand, but we are talking about games.
There is no complexity in MMOs, there is expression, entertainment, fun factor, and just a little bit of art, and really, if you are feeling better about yourself based on the games you like, you are just delusional.
Well, and if you think someone need to test a game for a closed system like the Xbox360 using PCs, you really dont know what you are talking about.
...
^ This guy tries too hard.
If there is 'no complexity' in games then how can you even compare the term complexity? Are you saying that Pong is just as complex as Chess? If not then you prove that complexity in games does exist.
Stop trying to over-analyze it and impress then get back down to earth. Many games are extremely complex and others are simple. Simple minded people like simple minded games, that's logical. Heart surgeons and garbage men most likely don't favor the same activities.
When you started to use the pong vs chess analogy in MMO vs MMO, you know the one that tried too hard wasnt me right?
Really, I have no reason to impress anyone here and I truly hope you dont want to impress too, because Im sure if you try to use your "simple/complex mind" theory outside this forum you probably wont get any serious attention.
Again, if you found an extremely complex MMO, you just have a comprehension issue and deluded yourself.
When you used the surgeon vs garbage men analogy you just confirmed my point .
...
You do realize there is no real complexity in games right?
The fact you may think you have deeper thoughs than someone that plays a game you dont like dont show you are a deeper person, it only show you are arrogant and probably shallow.
See, if we were talking about Titus Andronicus or Der Ring des Nibelungen I would understand, but we are talking about games.
There is no complexity in MMOs, there is expression, entertainment, fun factor, and just a little bit of art, and really, if you are feeling better about yourself based on the games you like, you are just delusional.
Well, and if you think someone need to test a game for a closed system like the Xbox360 using PCs, you really dont know what you are talking about.
...
^ This guy tries too hard.
If there is 'no complexity' in games then how can you even compare the term complexity? Are you saying that Pong is just as complex as Chess? If not then you prove that complexity in games does exist.
Stop trying to over-analyze it and impress then get back down to earth. Many games are extremely complex and others are simple. Simple minded people like simple minded games, that's logical. Heart surgeons and garbage men most likely don't favor the same activities.
When you started to use the pong vs chess analogy in MMO vs MMO, you know the one that tried too hard wasnt me right?
Really, I have no reason to impress anyone here and I truly hope you dont want to impress too, because Im sure if you try to use your "simple/complex mind" theory outside this forum you probably wont get any serious attention.
Again, if you found an extremely complex MMO, you just have a comprehension issue and deluded yourself.
When you used the surgeon vs garbage men analogy you just confirmed my point .
...
I'm going to ignore your pointless, watered-down insults and stick to the issue.
It's not a matter of finding a 'complex' MMO because that term is relative. There's no way to declare something factually 'complex.' You can, however, state that one MMO is more complex than another, which a 4 year old can see. Go play EVE online and tell me its not any more complex than Pong.
-------------------------
You do realize there is no real complexity in games right?
The fact you may think you have deeper thoughs than someone that plays a game you dont like dont show you are a deeper person, it only show you are arrogant and probably shallow.
See, if we were talking about Titus Andronicus or Der Ring des Nibelungen I would understand, but we are talking about games.
There is no complexity in MMOs, there is expression, entertainment, fun factor, and just a little bit of art, and really, if you are feeling better about yourself based on the games you like, you are just delusional.
Well, and if you think someone need to test a game for a closed system like the Xbox360 using PCs, you really dont know what you are talking about.
...
^ This guy tries too hard.
If there is 'no complexity' in games then how can you even compare the term complexity? Are you saying that Pong is just as complex as Chess? If not then you prove that complexity in games does exist.
Stop trying to over-analyze it and impress then get back down to earth. Many games are extremely complex and others are simple. Simple minded people like simple minded games, that's logical. Heart surgeons and garbage men most likely don't favor the same activities.
When you started to use the pong vs chess analogy in MMO vs MMO, you know the one that tried too hard wasnt me right?
Really, I have no reason to impress anyone here and I truly hope you dont want to impress too, because Im sure if you try to use your "simple/complex mind" theory outside this forum you probably wont get any serious attention.
Again, if you found an extremely complex MMO, you just have a comprehension issue and deluded yourself.
When you used the surgeon vs garbage men analogy you just confirmed my point .
...
I'm going to ignore your pointless, watered-down insults and stick to the issue.
It's not a matter of finding a 'complex' MMO because that term is relative. There's no way to declare something factually 'complex.' You can, however, state that one MMO is more complex than another, which a 4 year old can see. Go play EVE online and tell me its not any more complex than Pong.
Netzoko, there is no insult in my words, if you felt that way you should think about the way you judged some people here, what I said to you was not in a lower level than what you said to me. Really, if you want some respect and not feel insulted, try not to do the same.
Yes, I played EvE as I played a lot of MMOs and now Im playing Age of Conan, while I can see some really good aspects in EvE gameplay, I also can see a deep sense of artistic style and good details in AoC´s music, landscapes, well written quests and the uniqueness of combat.
But again, if you think AoC is for simple minds and EvE is for deep thoughs you should think again.
The garbage men vs surgeon analogy showed you indeed feel you are better and deeper just for the games you play.
Where I live, a garbage men can barely survive and buy his own food, he is not a garbage men because he has a lesser mind, the issue goes far beyond that, and you showed a simple mind attitude when you used this analogy.
Again, Im not insulting you, but may I ask, did you insult someone here?
...
There's plenty wrong with overexpectations from the MMO genre.
The moon landing is cool, but what we have on these boards are the equivalent of people bitching about how long its taking to get to Neptune.
Quite simply, everyone wants a perfect, seamless, round globe, virtual reality representation of whatever theme or IP an MMO is based off of. Complete with gorgeous graphics and one server that'll support millions of subscribers.
No, they've done it before. People want them to do it again. Ultima Online, the first big MMO, was seamless. DAoC was seamless. Vanguard is seamless. It's possible, it just doesn't get nearly as much money as the WoW clones.
Darkfall Travelogues!
Guild Wars, Everquest 2, DDO and AoC, they are all zoned or instanced, and if you take them without misconceptions you would realize they are less similar to world of warcraft than DAoC.
Instances and zones work well with storyline quests, a very good example of that is Unrest in Everquest 2.
Zoned, instanced or seamless is just a game design approach, it has nothing to do with WoW.
If someone enjoy share quests and storylines with some friends some times a zoned or instanced world will work better, and this approach has nothing to do with WoW, it is a RPG concept, the idea of quests and storyline should be even more present in mmoRPGs
Vanguard is a good example of seamless world but for some reasons you cant compare the 2D world of UO with any 3D mmorpg, even if you compare the 2D world of UO with the gorgeous 2D world of Sacred you will notice how primitive is UO.( not bashing UO, the game was fun and a nice step for mmos)
...
All mmorpgs can potentially be considered copies of earlier games, even your precious EvE has its roots in games such as Elite, Jumpgate, Homeworld etc. EQ clones? EQ was essentially a copy of a multitude of rgp's and MUDs. Original ideas are rare, you can't just make a statement like that and apply it solely to AoC ignoring all the other mmorpgs, or even all the other games, on the market...how many are, in all honesty, truly original?
What we get nowadays, for better or for worse, is games with different flavours rather than being completely unique entities in their own right and this applies to all genres, not just mmorpg's.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
I have to chuckle at this. Why not throw in Einstein, Leonardo Da Vinci, Descartes, and Jesus. They all deserve to be right up there with game developers.
I believe some other poster said it best (I think I read it on this site). Even if all the cooks have the same material, the soup will still taste different. It does't matter that some ideas are getting rehashed, as long as each generation adds something to the previous one.
oo brother ,any company that focus their effort too mutch on graphic because we complain about graphic quality isnt very smart.we will see about this when siege things begin but if the beginning of this game is any indication i think this game probably have good chance to crash and burn
reason:i think they made the best graphic marvel of today,but the content as of yet is shall i say leanto say the least
i dont count quest as content cause all the game have them lol,i would have counted them if they at least would have benn pvp-quest but i doubt we ll see that,unless blizzard do it cause only they have the financial strengh to take a risk
men i can see this:wow2 doing pvp-quest .aaarrrg i hate to say this but only blizzard can take a risk on pvp-quest.
I'm not sure what you're implying but don't expect Blizzard to do something tha twill not be popular among its players. Their content usually caters to as much players as possible.
dont sweat it pvp-quest is the future so even if i and all of us dont know how to add it believe me they will cause everyone is fed up of meaningless quest ,we call it grinding to death.and if they dont find a new way to put fresh life in quest thing ,mm people will go away from the grind in the long run.
FURY and GUILDWARS begins to be tempting again for some reason lol.
So what you want is a MMORPG that does what? How do you expect to progress? Maybe an MMO will come out that doesn't have levels, everyone starts at max level, best gear, highest stats, and yea you just log in to either PvP or are instantly teleported to the entrance of a Raid dungeon...
We dont use the keyboard to use our skills, as we only have 1 skill. You push the left mouse button to use your one skill and never lose life or have to use mana for casting spells. Honestly go play RTS's or FPS's...oh wait those have buttons you push and health bars..woopS!! maybe a "Sports" MMO would suit your tastes better.
I mean honestly why dont you lay out your plan for the greatest MMO that will completely revolutionize the genre, Develop it, and release it so we can see what kinda dream world your living in.
I play AoC and I agree content and systems are lacking right now. But the Combat, FFA PvP, diverse classes, graphics, and the soundtrack keep me enthralled. You sound like you need a MMO to replace your real life, good luck in waiting for it.
Just wait for Biowares or Squarenix next mmos, I believe they will take the genre forward with whatever they are developing.
weird to see so many drama queens over a game, a rollercoaster ride is still a ride after said and done.
AoC is getting a huge unfair press ihn my opinion. Its a competant game with excellent graphics but I think the marketing / Hype machine that just seems to get bigger and bigger with every big budget release has created a false expectation that this game will break the traditional mould and be something very different. Never was it going to meet those expectations and therefore a lot of people are unhappy.
The game does try some new ideas but it is true that it is another variant on a well worn fantasy theme.
Rather than attack the mechanics of a game, i think we have had a huge amount of variance in MMO's but they have failed to grab the imagination due to awful execution.
SWG - an excellent game premise that captures the interest of a massive fan base. Had a rocky launch but accelerated quickly. NGE came along and killed the passion and investment that so many had put inot the game up to that point. Where would it be if they had no done that?
Matrix Online - what a great new environment to play with. Almost a real world seeting ( somewhat a founder for SOE's "Agency" game thats forthcoming. Even if you take out the film connection, this game had huge potential but executions was dire. It failed to take off in earnest
Tabula Rasa - another new premise. A war based game that could have captured a counterstrike type fanbase. Again the mass marketing hype similar to AoC created an expectation that could only let people down.
I would love for a develop to create a new style of environment (drop the fantasy formula - no one will successfully differentiate themselves from EQ2 and WOW for that style now) but be honest about what your game is and make it as accessbile and diverse as possible.
Once the initial peak of subscription is over, it would be new class types and races with new starting areas that would make me try again. More factions so its not just a good vs evil through 2 camps. Lets have more moral choices that may take whole quest ladders out of use depending on which way you develop your char. Lets have mounts that fight with us. Lets have gunslinger style chars like the FF games.
There are a ton of ways to still innovate in this genre, thank god, but developers are driven to instant mass market appeal. There is no such thing as a wow beater - its too large. Wow will slowly dilute over a long long period of time but that game is a generation changer. The next real big thing is a game that can stand aside WOW in a new space. Everything else becomes a niche game.
Exciting times I think.
To err is human....to play is divine
They are so rabid about their hate because this is the first game that has actually effected WoW despite these shills saying "I don't play WoW" or "AoC isn't effecting WoW" They do, it is and at the end of the day that is what it's all about.
Sorry, cant agree with that.
LOTRO affected WOW, all major releases will do. But thats natural, especially in the first period of release.
WOW will stand the test of time and the lich king will affect all the other games ofr a time.
To err is human....to play is divine