Ireland is being smart since the largest promoters of the EU have historically been France and Germany. It's been their little pet project for too long so it's been tainted by the attempt to dominate the rest of Europe with Franco-Germain ideals over local governance and regulation. Such a situation was bound to happen in regards to the EU. I suspect it will not exist within two decades if this go this way unless the EU is reformed from within.
On a personal note, I don't support any large super-government, let alone government at all, but it goes without saying such super-governments are the most inefficient ill-advised means to promote a freer market. If you want a freer market, tell your politicians to not tax so much (or simply to stop taxing in general). Tell them that what you want to buy is your own business if it doesn't concern others own lives. Tell them that you want to work where *you* want and where that may be is none of their concern too. Ultimately, individuals must assert their moral authority of self-governance before anything else to be free, rational, and safe.
Originally posted by declaredemer Originally posted by Kurush 1. France is taking leadership of the EU next.
It reminds me how Germany was the economic engine of Europe, and now Germany is known as the "sick man of Europe."
The French want to be the leader of the EU.
I support a strong EU because then the USA can get out of Germany, and other, EU countries. Let the EU defend themselves. The USA is broke, busted, and bankrupt. Our citizens do not even have universal health care in the USA, unlike other EU countries.
Speaking of France, they have the best health care system in the world: a multipayer system: part government and part private. It works brilliant, in spite of what you read in your local newspapers.
We don't need to be in Europe, but a super-government won't stop tyrants as they are simply words on paper. As for the US citizenry not for tyrannical healthcare, bull. The last poll has it split either 55 favor 45 unfavor or the reverse. It shows that most American people are stupid enough to join such a system. As for France having a 'great' system, tell that to the 10+ percent unemployed because of its unfree markets.
We don't need to be in Europe, but a super-government won't stop tyrants as they are simply words on paper. As for the US citizenry not for tyrannical healthcare, bull. The last poll has it split either 55 favor 45 unfavor or the reverse. It shows that most American people are stupid enough to join such a system. As for France having a 'great' system, tell that to the 10+ percent unemployed because of its unfree markets.
-- Brede
France is a free market
France's healthcare system is more free market than probably ours in many respects; it is a multipayer system in which the really expensive stuff is covered by the government and the routine things are covered by insurance
France's unemployment is overwhelming illegal immigrants. Moreover, France's safety net is much more generous, and effective, than in the USA. The USA has tremendous underemployment because people are forced to take low-level jobs to survive after losing a working-class or middle-class job.
We don't need to be in Europe, but a super-government won't stop tyrants as they are simply words on paper. As for the US citizenry not for tyrannical healthcare, bull. The last poll has it split either 55 favor 45 unfavor or the reverse. It shows that most American people are stupid enough to join such a system. As for France having a 'great' system, tell that to the 10+ percent unemployed because of its unfree markets.
-- Brede
France is a free market
France's healthcare system is more free market than probably ours in many respects; it is a multipayer system in which the really expensive stuff is covered by the government and the routine things are covered by insurance
France's unemployment is overwhelming illegal immigrants. Moreover, France's safety net is much more generous, and effective, than in the USA. The USA has tremendous underemployment because people are forced to take low-level jobs to survive after losing a working-class or middle-class job.
For gods sake where do you guys get this stuff about the US?! Underemployment!? Give me a break. You need to stop getting your info from the leftest websites.
For gods sake where do you guys get this stuff about the US?! Underemployment!? Give me a break. You need to stop getting your info from the leftest websites.
Underemployment is when your job level does not match your abilities. It is often described as "hidden unemployment" because people cannot find jobs that match their skill sets and take just about any job to survive, service personal debts, and pay the bills.
Abstract:
In this paper the method of cross nation comparison has been applied to analyze wage impacts of labor market institutions. The countries under comparison are the US and the Netherlands. By means of stochastic wage frontier models it has been shown that labor market institutions, in particular, higher unemployment benefits and collective bargaining lead to substantial less underemployment in the Netherlands than in the US. Information channels also play a role, especially in the US, although to a smaller extent.
Differences in underemployment between the United States and the Netherlands, Dijk, Jouke van (Groningen University)
I tried to find you a country-by-country comparison, but underemployment in the United States is severe when compared to the rest of the world.
In fact, be mindful that EU countries, as a bloc, is more economic prosperous than the U.S.: higher purchasing power, stronger currency, and yes, less unemployment and less underemployment. Moreover, superior public schools and universities, hospital, infrastructure, and public transportation. Even more, health care is, overall, less as a percentage of GDP; it costs less and is more efficient.
I know many Americans think they are "number one," and I am sensitive to that. I am also sensitive to the fact that many misconceptions exist about European health care. No single European country has the same health care system:
Single-systems
Multipayer-systems
Socialized care
Each have their own disadvantages and advantages. I might make a post for the benefit of the Americans who visit this web page to enhance their understanding of health care.
Originally posted by declaredemer France is a free market
No market today is a free market. When the last government on Earth is shut down then we'll have a free market.
France's healthcare system is more free market than probably ours in many respects; it is a multipayer system in which the really expensive stuff is covered by the government and the routine things are covered by insurance
That's not really free market, that's managed market. And I doubt that it's all roses and chocolates too, considering that such systems often are flawed. I'd rather to be free to keep my tax dollars and decide how to spend them since I know what's best for me and not some suit in an office building.
France's unemployment is overwhelming illegal immigrants. Moreover, France's safety net is much more generous, and effective, than in the USA. The USA has tremendous underemployment because people are forced to take low-level jobs to survive after losing a working-class or middle-class job.
I love it when people blame immigrants for anything because it's based on the fallacy that some how immigrants don't need food, water, clothes, entertainment, housing, healthcare, and other products and services found in a market place. Immigrants do not take away from a system they add to it, albeit to varying degrees and depends on what kind of person the immigrant is but on the whole they don't reduce the market's vitality. In fact, with more immigrants you have more labor, and with more labor the costs of labor based products and services go down. Thus the customers win out in the end.
As for the US's unemployment (don't call it underemployment, because that's a misuse of the term), I don't doubt the issue of it either considering I live in a factory town so I know what you're talking about to be true to a varying degree.
As for people being forced to take low level jobs? No one is owed a job, let alone anything else. So, I don't buy into the obligation fallacy as it regards property rights as evil. Simply put, if you want people to be employed in regards to having funds, then let them decide how to get employed. In fact, let them open their own businesses since the majority of people in the United States that ever move up from one bracket of income according to the US Census is through operating an independent business. People shouldn't be 'employed', people should be able to take care of themselves and find means to fulfill it without force of the State.
First, kicking Ireland, while giving me personal satisfaction, would of course be not the right way. If the Irish have any decency left, they go themselves. Thats what I expect from them.
Second, what the constitution and the contract want is making the EU more than a free trade space. If a nation doesnt want to be part of that, I have no problem, but then I kindly ask them to leave. By themselves. The other way, as many ministers and politicians of the Europeans nations now say (and I hope for once they have the guts to DO what they say!), is the EU is re-founded without those nations who dont ratify the contract. If Ireland wants to go its special way, my blessing, but go. I am sure the majority of the central European nations all see that the same.
And when we come to people votes: I suggest we make people votes in the netto payers, who paid 55 BILLION EURO to Ireland if the people of France, of Dutch, of Belgium, of Austria and of Germany and the other who PAID Ireland in the last 30 years want their money back? I am quite sure we get great majorities for that in these nations. Its like in those movies, when a poor, hungry person asks its rich neighbours "hey I have nothing and you are rich, can you give me some money so I can start my own shop?" get it, and you know, visible or not, there always is a price tag attached. Now if that person, whom you mercifully gave your money to make his own shop, when you just ask for a little favor in return, like, hey sign this new treaty, kicks you in the ass instead - should that man be really surprised when next day he finds his shop burned to ash? Maybe you contemplate that, dear Irish neighbours when you are kicked and your special taxes and treatments are null and void and you fall back to a land of sheep herders you were before we pulled you out of the gutter.
Am I pissed? Sure I am. If I give you money and then you kick me the next opportunity I ask a small favor for the CONSIDERABLE amount of money we gave, I guess I have the RIGHT to be pissed. I know diplomats word this smother, but we Germans ... ya know we are unfortunate not as silver-tongued as our esteemed Neighbours. But unlike others, we say what we think of you.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
No market today is a free market. When the last government on Earth is shut down then we'll have a free market.
France's healthcare system is more free market than probably ours in many respects; it is a multipayer system in which the really expensive stuff is covered by the government and the routine things are covered by insurance
That's not really free market, that's managed market. And I doubt that it's all roses and chocolates too, considering that such systems often are flawed. I'd rather to be free to keep my tax dollars and decide how to spend them since I know what's best for me and not some suit in an office building.
France's unemployment is overwhelming illegal immigrants. Moreover, France's safety net is much more generous, and effective, than in the USA. The USA has tremendous underemployment because people are forced to take low-level jobs to survive after losing a working-class or middle-class job.
I love it when people blame immigrants for anything because it's based on the fallacy that some how immigrants don't need food, water, clothes, entertainment, housing, healthcare, and other products and services found in a market place. Immigrants do not take away from a system they add to it, albeit to varying degrees and depends on what kind of person the immigrant is but on the whole they don't reduce the market's vitality. In fact, with more immigrants you have more labor, and with more labor the costs of labor based products and services go down. Thus the customers win out in the end.
As for the US's unemployment (don't call it underemployment, because that's a misuse of the term), I don't doubt the issue of it either considering I live in a factory town so I know what you're talking about to be true to a varying degree.
As for people being forced to take low level jobs? No one is owed a job, let alone anything else. So, I don't buy into the obligation fallacy as it regards property rights as evil. Simply put, if you want people to be employed in regards to having funds, then let them decide how to get employed. In fact, let them open their own businesses since the majority of people in the United States that ever move up from one bracket of income according to the US Census is through operating an independent business. People shouldn't be 'employed', people should be able to take care of themselves and find means to fulfill it without force of the State.
-- Brede
[/b][/quote]
Health Care & Free Markets: The Workable Intersection
France is a free market. I am somewhat shocked you dispute, or do not know, this.
The health care system in France does work: it is inexpensive, efficient, and is excellent by each and every measure (lifespan, prevention, accessibility, affordability, treatment, quality of care, patient choice, freedom of physicians, hospital stays, coverage, and many other factors).
No offense. I mean this: no offense. It is apparent to me you are not educated on what a free market is or France's health care system.
Vast USA Underemployment
I never said someone is "owed" a job. You need what is known as "focus." You run-off with these sort of expressions that, to me, do not make sense.
This is a direct quote: "People shouldn't be employed. [P]eople should be able to take care of themselves and find means without force of the State." You might be very young, or very uneducated, but that quote shows to me how ridiculous your thinking really is. People take care of themselves by being employed. When, or if, you get a job you might understand this.
You never addressed the underemployment issue in the USA, and I think we both know at this point you do not know what it is.
Edit: To clarify, people take care of themselves, without "force of the State" by obtaining jobs in the free market, although you said "no market today is a free market." I have no idea where you are reading these things about USA underemployment, France's health care, and free markets. It is all wrong. All of it.
Don't blame the Irish for a serious flaw in how the EU votes for its laws. Blame it on the people created an all-or-nothing legislator rather than a majority concensus.
Well if more countries had public votes instead of the parliament voting for the people i doubt the majority would be for the constitution. I know for sure us Greeks would have voted against it as well despite all the money we receive from EU just like the Irsish did.
Comments
Ireland is being smart since the largest promoters of the EU have historically been France and Germany. It's been their little pet project for too long so it's been tainted by the attempt to dominate the rest of Europe with Franco-Germain ideals over local governance and regulation. Such a situation was bound to happen in regards to the EU. I suspect it will not exist within two decades if this go this way unless the EU is reformed from within.
On a personal note, I don't support any large super-government, let alone government at all, but it goes without saying such super-governments are the most inefficient ill-advised means to promote a freer market. If you want a freer market, tell your politicians to not tax so much (or simply to stop taxing in general). Tell them that what you want to buy is your own business if it doesn't concern others own lives. Tell them that you want to work where *you* want and where that may be is none of their concern too. Ultimately, individuals must assert their moral authority of self-governance before anything else to be free, rational, and safe.
-- Brede
The French want to be the leader of the EU.
I support a strong EU because then the USA can get out of Germany, and other, EU countries. Let the EU defend themselves. The USA is broke, busted, and bankrupt. Our citizens do not even have universal health care in the USA, unlike other EU countries.
Speaking of France, they have the best health care system in the world: a multipayer system: part government and part private. It works brilliant, in spite of what you read in your local newspapers.
We don't need to be in Europe, but a super-government won't stop tyrants as they are simply words on paper. As for the US citizenry not for tyrannical healthcare, bull. The last poll has it split either 55 favor 45 unfavor or the reverse. It shows that most American people are stupid enough to join such a system. As for France having a 'great' system, tell that to the 10+ percent unemployed because of its unfree markets.
-- Brede
For gods sake where do you guys get this stuff about the US?! Underemployment!? Give me a break. You need to stop getting your info from the leftest websites.
Underemployment is when your job level does not match your abilities. It is often described as "hidden unemployment" because people cannot find jobs that match their skill sets and take just about any job to survive, service personal debts, and pay the bills.
Abstract:
In this paper the method of cross nation comparison has been applied to analyze wage impacts of labor market institutions. The countries under comparison are the US and the Netherlands. By means of stochastic wage frontier models it has been shown that labor market institutions, in particular, higher unemployment benefits and collective bargaining lead to substantial less underemployment in the Netherlands than in the US. Information channels also play a role, especially in the US, although to a smaller extent.
Differences in underemployment between the United States and the Netherlands, Dijk, Jouke van (Groningen University)
I tried to find you a country-by-country comparison, but underemployment in the United States is severe when compared to the rest of the world.
In fact, be mindful that EU countries, as a bloc, is more economic prosperous than the U.S.: higher purchasing power, stronger currency, and yes, less unemployment and less underemployment. Moreover, superior public schools and universities, hospital, infrastructure, and public transportation. Even more, health care is, overall, less as a percentage of GDP; it costs less and is more efficient.
I know many Americans think they are "number one," and I am sensitive to that. I am also sensitive to the fact that many misconceptions exist about European health care. No single European country has the same health care system:
Each have their own disadvantages and advantages. I might make a post for the benefit of the Americans who visit this web page to enhance their understanding of health care.
That's not really free market, that's managed market. And I doubt that it's all roses and chocolates too, considering that such systems often are flawed. I'd rather to be free to keep my tax dollars and decide how to spend them since I know what's best for me and not some suit in an office building.
I love it when people blame immigrants for anything because it's based on the fallacy that some how immigrants don't need food, water, clothes, entertainment, housing, healthcare, and other products and services found in a market place. Immigrants do not take away from a system they add to it, albeit to varying degrees and depends on what kind of person the immigrant is but on the whole they don't reduce the market's vitality. In fact, with more immigrants you have more labor, and with more labor the costs of labor based products and services go down. Thus the customers win out in the end.
As for the US's unemployment (don't call it underemployment, because that's a misuse of the term), I don't doubt the issue of it either considering I live in a factory town so I know what you're talking about to be true to a varying degree.
As for people being forced to take low level jobs? No one is owed a job, let alone anything else. So, I don't buy into the obligation fallacy as it regards property rights as evil. Simply put, if you want people to be employed in regards to having funds, then let them decide how to get employed. In fact, let them open their own businesses since the majority of people in the United States that ever move up from one bracket of income according to the US Census is through operating an independent business. People shouldn't be 'employed', people should be able to take care of themselves and find means to fulfill it without force of the State.
-- Brede
[/b][/quote]
First, kicking Ireland, while giving me personal satisfaction, would of course be not the right way. If the Irish have any decency left, they go themselves. Thats what I expect from them.
Second, what the constitution and the contract want is making the EU more than a free trade space. If a nation doesnt want to be part of that, I have no problem, but then I kindly ask them to leave. By themselves. The other way, as many ministers and politicians of the Europeans nations now say (and I hope for once they have the guts to DO what they say!), is the EU is re-founded without those nations who dont ratify the contract. If Ireland wants to go its special way, my blessing, but go. I am sure the majority of the central European nations all see that the same.
And when we come to people votes: I suggest we make people votes in the netto payers, who paid 55 BILLION EURO to Ireland if the people of France, of Dutch, of Belgium, of Austria and of Germany and the other who PAID Ireland in the last 30 years want their money back? I am quite sure we get great majorities for that in these nations. Its like in those movies, when a poor, hungry person asks its rich neighbours "hey I have nothing and you are rich, can you give me some money so I can start my own shop?" get it, and you know, visible or not, there always is a price tag attached. Now if that person, whom you mercifully gave your money to make his own shop, when you just ask for a little favor in return, like, hey sign this new treaty, kicks you in the ass instead - should that man be really surprised when next day he finds his shop burned to ash? Maybe you contemplate that, dear Irish neighbours when you are kicked and your special taxes and treatments are null and void and you fall back to a land of sheep herders you were before we pulled you out of the gutter.
Am I pissed? Sure I am. If I give you money and then you kick me the next opportunity I ask a small favor for the CONSIDERABLE amount of money we gave, I guess I have the RIGHT to be pissed. I know diplomats word this smother, but we Germans ... ya know we are unfortunate not as silver-tongued as our esteemed Neighbours. But unlike others, we say what we think of you.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
That's not really free market, that's managed market. And I doubt that it's all roses and chocolates too, considering that such systems often are flawed. I'd rather to be free to keep my tax dollars and decide how to spend them since I know what's best for me and not some suit in an office building.
I love it when people blame immigrants for anything because it's based on the fallacy that some how immigrants don't need food, water, clothes, entertainment, housing, healthcare, and other products and services found in a market place. Immigrants do not take away from a system they add to it, albeit to varying degrees and depends on what kind of person the immigrant is but on the whole they don't reduce the market's vitality. In fact, with more immigrants you have more labor, and with more labor the costs of labor based products and services go down. Thus the customers win out in the end.
As for the US's unemployment (don't call it underemployment, because that's a misuse of the term), I don't doubt the issue of it either considering I live in a factory town so I know what you're talking about to be true to a varying degree.
As for people being forced to take low level jobs? No one is owed a job, let alone anything else. So, I don't buy into the obligation fallacy as it regards property rights as evil. Simply put, if you want people to be employed in regards to having funds, then let them decide how to get employed. In fact, let them open their own businesses since the majority of people in the United States that ever move up from one bracket of income according to the US Census is through operating an independent business. People shouldn't be 'employed', people should be able to take care of themselves and find means to fulfill it without force of the State.
-- Brede
[/b][/quote]
Health Care & Free Markets: The Workable Intersection
Vast USA Underemployment
Edit: To clarify, people take care of themselves, without "force of the State" by obtaining jobs in the free market, although you said "no market today is a free market." I have no idea where you are reading these things about USA underemployment, France's health care, and free markets. It is all wrong. All of it.
Don't blame the Irish for a serious flaw in how the EU votes for its laws. Blame it on the people created an all-or-nothing legislator rather than a majority concensus.
Well if more countries had public votes instead of the parliament voting for the people i doubt the majority would be for the constitution. I know for sure us Greeks would have voted against it as well despite all the money we receive from EU just like the Irsish did.