Well, I don't necessarily think it's a 100% bad system. And "killing another player repeatedly or other general unfairness"? Oh yeah. I can't target the best healer in the other guild, or I can't kill their best overall player because it might be "unfair" to always attack him. It seems good on paper but I think in reality it won't work out.
Obviously killing someone way below your level deserves some kind of punishment (i.e. being turned into what you really are, a chicken for not fighting people your own level.) Does your status ever go down? I imagine it would, but how many kills would it take for you to get to red? I like Teala's example of the guild war; there's alot of killing going on there. And what happens when a red player kills a red player? What happens if alot of people are red and they just decide to team up and keep doing what they've been doing (especially if they're high levels)?
So, I guess we just need to see how it really works out, but I think they're going to have to break and mend this over and over until it works just right.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
I have questions to those that play on FFA PvP servers now.
1) Were you never killed by someone or groups that were higher level then you?
2) If you were, did it really hurt you so much that you see these new rules as a necessity?
3) If you answered yes to #2 why did you choose to play on an FFA PvP server?
Look I am ganked all the time. I don't whine bitch and moan about it. I just respawn and bid my time. Because the time will come when I am their level and I will not be such an easy target. I was singled out by Goons the very first day and I think my character died somewhere close to 50 times. She was spawn camped, I changed instances...did a few quest....they found her again...she was spawned camped...I changed again. I managed to level despite the Goons.
If I could do it, and I am not that good at PvP, and am not bitching and moaning...why are any of you? Is your skin so thin that you take this stuff personally? It's just a game. A little harsher than some due to the existing rule sets, but it is just a game.
If Funcom does anything they need to give us reasons "to" PvP...not hamper us in our PvP as these new rules will do. Right now there is no real reason to PvP other than to see the occaisional Goon have to respawn.
They need to allow for seiges and guild vs guild warfare and this means "open" warfare and not just in some designated instances...we need to be able to fight each other when ever and where ever we see fit. I still hate the guards at outpost, and the fact we can't kill in certain zones. Makes no since to me...but hey that is just me. I prefer games like oldschool UO and AC's Darktide where no place was safe.
FFA PvP means just that...not "we'll hold your hand and protect you from the big bad ganker" as you level BS. Sorry if I sound a little PO'd, but you guys knew this coming into the FFA PvP servers and now you want to change the rules to protect you.
I think Funcom needs to change the name of their FFA PvP servers to:
FFA PvP means just that...not "we'll hold your hand and protect you from the big bad ganker" as you level BS. Sorry if I sound a little PO'd, but you guys knew this coming into the FFA PvP servers and now you want to change the rules to protect you. I think Funcom needs to change the name of their FFA PvP servers to:
CAREBEAR SERVERS o.O
I agree, yet still not. Its "FFA PVP", not "Asshats galore" or "Spawncampers R Us".
The biggest reason (in my opinion) that they put this in was because people were crying and complaining to Funcom instead of telling their fellow players who is a spawn camper and who should be taken down. Or, the players did not have enough incentive to team up and kill those asshats, for whatever reason. Either way when you have a FFA server it doesn't have to mean you're on your own. It can mean that people team up, and if people can team up to kill you, then you can team up to kill them. You should be able to anyways.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
FFA PvP means just that...not "we'll hold your hand and protect you from the big bad ganker" as you level BS. Sorry if I sound a little PO'd, but you guys knew this coming into the FFA PvP servers and now you want to change the rules to protect you. I think Funcom needs to change the name of their FFA PvP servers to:
CAREBEAR SERVERS o.O
I agree, yet still not. Its "FFA PVP", not "Asshats galore" or "Spawncampers R Us".
Then you shouldn't be playing on an FFA PvP server then should you? Because those people exist on an FFA PvP server. Don't like them camping you. Get some people together and camp them. It happens all the time in FotD and Eiglophian Mountains, Atzels, you name it. Don't like it get a group together and put a stop to it or change instances. That is how an FFA PvP server works and it works well.
FFA PvP means just that. If you do not like it don't play on one.
Repeated killings toward very little actual consequence are basically the result of poor or non-existant zone control mechanisms.
In other words what does repeatedly killing someone do on most MMORPGs. Usually nothing after the first loss. They do it for pyschological reasons.
Basically it is a means to assert dominance over another. Most FFA PvP games are merely poorly implemented. People think that the FFA PvP solves everything. But they are wrong because the underlying mechanics do not allow you to do what you actually want to do.
That being to control things through violence. That is one of the reasons Eve's PvP design is simply better. You simply can't kill someone over and over. Because if you pod them they respawn at some station possibly very far away.
By podding whoever comes into your system, you control that system through attrition. Eve is much more cuttthroat than AoC yet does not have repeated ganking because the idea itself makes very little sense. Ganking generally just means ambushing or out numbering people as far as unfairness.
Anytime a game has stuff like this you should instantly place the blame on the developers. Yeah the people doing are dumbasses or petty sociopaths. But in the end itself PvP is and always will be about asserting dominance and when you do not properly allows a person or guild or whatever to actually control and dominate then you get stupid crap like this.
I think they should make this as a ruleset on some servers and leave the others be. I guess the problem with that is they would already have to do char transfers, which I'm sure they aren't ready for that undertaking.
FFA PvP means just that...not "we'll hold your hand and protect you from the big bad ganker" as you level BS. Sorry if I sound a little PO'd, but you guys knew this coming into the FFA PvP servers and now you want to change the rules to protect you. I think Funcom needs to change the name of their FFA PvP servers to:
CAREBEAR SERVERS o.O
I agree, yet still not. Its "FFA PVP", not "Asshats galore" or "Spawncampers R Us".
Then you shouldn't be playing on an FFA PvP server then should you? Because those people exist on an FFA PvP server. Don't like them camping you. Get some people together and camp them. It happens all the time in FotD and Eiglophian Mountains, Atzels, you name it. Don't like it get a group together and put a stop to it or change instances. That is how an FFA PvP server works and it works well.
FFA PvP means just that. If you do not like it don't play on one.
I think the real question is not whether the people who dislike the "Spawncampers R Us" model are playing on the wrong servers, rather it is whether there are enough people who get off on such cowardly behaviour to justify having a separate server for hardcore sociopaths.
Calling people that disagree with you 'Carebears' doesn't change anything. If more players want 'PvP with Consequences' then that is what will happen, because Funcom will do whatever is likely to maximise account retention & of course profit.
In their game, FFA PvP means whatever Funcom decide & if you do not like the changes don't play it.
If you can't "Have your cake & eat it too", then how can "The proof of the pudding be in the eating"?
Image above is of a level 50 sword found in Tortage.
Just one example of Aoc's lousy loot system.
Equipment type available means that your class can not use this weapon type until the level stated. This confused me as well when I started out playing.
You are missing the point. It is a level 50 sword in a place that only goes to level 20(or a little past). Also see those damage stats. Well after you leave Tortage...it doesn't get much better from randomly dropped loot. Quest items give you the best stats and random drops are just pure junk.
Uhhhhh That is only lvl 50 because YOUR CLASS can only use that type weapon at lvl 50. The sword itself is not a lvl 50 item. This does not show anything bad about the loot system, just shows how bad your understanding of it is.
By the way I've looted some nice blue items in the ruins
As for the lowbies being KOS if in a enemy Guild I totally agree with that. A enemy guild should be full open to attack. Safe lowbies will be a method guilds can exploit. Hopefully funcom adresses that.
As for killing people 20-50 levels lower then you being what pvp servers are all about?
Personally I find pvp alot more fun when your fighting someone your own level, not running around kicking babies over.
The only people who go around ganking lowbies suck too much at pvp to fight people who can fight back.
Personally instead of this fugative system I think if your more then 5 levels they should be grey to you. Not count at all in stats. No way should killing someone level 15 when your 50 give you any kill stat. Thats just pathetic.
FFA PvP means FFA PvP servers I think Funcom needs to change the name of their FFA PvP servers to:
blah blah blah
I agree, yet still not. Its "FFA PVP", not "Asshats galore" or "Spawncampers R Us".
blah blah blah
Then you shouldn't be playing on an FFA PvP server
blah blah
exist on an FFA PvP server. blah blah
That is how an FFA PvP server works and it works well.
FFA PvP means just that. If you do not like it don't play on one.
It is AMAZING how clueless some of you people are.
OK
for the record
THERE ARE NO FFA SERVERS IN AOC
None. Zilch. Zero. Nada. Read your stupid manual. Read the website. Read it all
Nowhere
NOWHERE
does it use the letters FFA.
You are living in a FANTASY. you are DELUSIONAL.
The PvP servers are (NO FFA) AND I QUOTE FROM THE GAME MANUAL PAGE 7
:"Game Servers with a LOOSER approach to player-vs-player combat. These servers offer more challenge and may not be suitable for new players."
Thats IT. Get it thru your freaking thick skulls. FFA does not exist on AOC atm.
PERIOD.
As for the Fugitive system, I am sure they will tweak it in the future. The fact that they are implementiong ANYTHING to deal with the lvl60's killing lvl 30's or people ganking others while in quest window makes me thrilled. It is freaking OBVIOUS that Funcom considers fair PvP to be essential. My response? EFFIN ABOUT TIME.
FFA PvP means FFA PvP servers I think Funcom needs to change the name of their FFA PvP servers to:
blah blah blah
I agree, yet still not. Its "FFA PVP", not "Asshats galore" or "Spawncampers R Us".
blah blah blah
Then you shouldn't be playing on an FFA PvP server
blah blah
exist on an FFA PvP server. blah blah
That is how an FFA PvP server works and it works well.
FFA PvP means just that. If you do not like it don't play on one.
It is AMAZING how clueless some of you people are.
OK
for the record
THERE ARE NO FFA SERVERS IN AOC
None. Zilch. Zero. Nada. Read your stupid manual. Read the website. Read it all
Nowhere
NOWHERE
does it use the letters FFA.
You are living in a FANTASY. you are DELUSIONAL.
The PvP servers are (NO FFA) AND I QUOTE FROM THE GAME MANUAL PAGE 7
:"Game Servers with a LOOSER approach to player-vs-player combat. These servers offer more challenge and may not be suitable for new players."
Thats IT. Get it thru your freaking thick skulls. FFA does not exist on AOC atm.
PERIOD.
As for the Fugitive system, I am sure they will tweak it in the future. The fact that they are implementiong ANYTHING to deal with the lvl60's killing lvl 30's or people ganking others while in quest window makes me thrilled. It is freaking OBVIOUS that Funcom considers fair PvP to be essential. My response? EFFIN ABOUT TIME.
The biggest reason (in my opinion) that they put this in was because people were crying and complaining to Funcom instead of telling their fellow players who is a spawn camper and who should be taken down. Or, the players did not have enough incentive to team up and kill those asshats, for whatever reason. Either way when you have a FFA server it doesn't have to mean you're on your own. It can mean that people team up, and if people can team up to kill you, then you can team up to kill them. You should be able to anyways.
Well, what this idea does is offer an automated way of transmitting a player's reputation to other players. Since most of us can't spend all day online sussing out a players reputation on our own, and may not hang out on the official server forum to get the latest on who is vying for the coveted title of asshat du jour, what this system does is let you know is who spends all their time ganking and who does not. It strips away the anonymity of some ganking players.
Which obviously upsets those players. It creates consequences for actions.
Which drives some people nuts, as they'll have to start behaving themselves!
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
The biggest reason (in my opinion) that they put this in was because people were crying and complaining to Funcom instead of telling their fellow players who is a spawn camper and who should be taken down. Or, the players did not have enough incentive to team up and kill those asshats, for whatever reason. Either way when you have a FFA server it doesn't have to mean you're on your own. It can mean that people team up, and if people can team up to kill you, then you can team up to kill them. You should be able to anyways.
Well, what this idea does is offer an automated way of transmitting a player's reputation to other players. Since most of us can't spend all day online sussing out a players reputation on our own, and may not hang out on the official server forum to get the latest on who is vying for the coveted title of asshat du jour, what this system does is let you know is who spends all their time ganking and who does not. It strips away the anonymity of some ganking players.
Which obviously upsets those players. It creates consequences for actions.
Which drives some people nuts, as they'll have to start behaving themselves!
Doesn't have to be necessarily about who has what kind of rep. It's about what happens if you're walking along then you get ganked and then spawn camped. Whether the guy doing it is a first timer or a feared veteran, if you get together a group of players to take him down, it'll solve your problem. Who cares if other people are doing it or not?
Then, later on, if you see someone else asking for help because they're in the same situation, you know that you should help them if you want them to help you. Whether it be the same person that harassed you or not.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
So next time we get ganked the last thing we will see is a pair of boobies.
I support this ganking system.
But seriously, FC must have thought about the issues that Teala is rightfully pointing out. We need more details about the proposed "Fugitive System" and it's ramifications on Guild conflict, naked players, and the like.
Siiingin in the raaiiin... wait a minute, these are tears! Stop cryin' wolf before the wolf is even born. Try the system, then pick it apart with your disagreements. A lot of your fears might be unfounded since Funcom just could have thought of all these things.
I'm shocked. I always figured that real pvpers would savor the challenge of a consequence-based system in their pvp. Don't you want to be challenged and face some real risk for how you play?
Sociopaths really hate it when there are consequences for their actions.
Hence the gnashing of teeth and lamentations we're seeing on this thread as actual consequences for being an asshat become reality.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
I do not play AOC, but I have played pvp mmorpg's since UO.
FFA PVP is not all about high level players just running around killing all the low level players. However, when there are no penalties in the game what so ever this is what happens.
It happens in every game and the developers want to keep players paying and playing. The current system does not do that. Look around the web and all the reviews where it is clearly stated by reviewer's and player's.
You want to kill low level players fine pay the price I have in the past! UO and lineage 2.
Wars declared between guilds never caused me to drop a thing. But if the opposing guild did not accept the war there was nothing you could do but talk bad about them.
It amazes me how people call FFA PVP great where a lvl 50 guy can go gank all the new players in a game. Please cry me a river!!
The rules were established before all the and I am sorry to put it this way, whiners started playing on PvP servers. Why did you guys come to a PvP server if you couldn't deal with how it is. I can deal with it. I get ganked. I am not whining. Why are you?
God makes me sick all the time I get people whining when you kill them and most of the time they are higher level! The names I ahve been called and the foul language I get from players I kill from all levels amazes me. "You didn't fight fair!" What...I didn't?! You started this when you jumped me right after a fight and I was resting! Who is not fighting fair?!
Look...there are plenty servers for people who do not like FFA or open PvP. Why..and I will ask you again...why do you insist on changing the rules to fit your play style when there are servers available for the kind of PvP you do like?
The rules were established before all the and I am sorry to put it this way, whiners started playing on PvP servers. Why did you guys come to a PvP server if you couldn't deal with how it is. I can deal with it. I get ganked. I am not whining. Why are you? God makes me sick all the time I get people whining when you kill them and most of the time they are higher level! The names I ahve been called and the foul language I get from players I kill from all levels amazes me. "You didn't fight fair!" What...I didn't?! You started this when you jumped me right after a fight and I was resting! Who is not fighting fair?! Look...there are plenty servers for people who do not like FFA or open PvP. Why..and I will ask you again...why do you insist on changing the rules to fit your play style when there are servers available for the kind of PvP you do like? Just tell me why?
The obvious reason is that just as in RL, the way to make money is to keep the majority happy.
Why should people who want to try PvP have to put up with Spawn Camping Griefers? More importantly, if the majority of AoC players who want to try PvP also feel this way then why should Funcom potentially alientate them & lose money because others really do get their kicks by stealing candy from babies?
I don't understand how people can even try to defend spawn camping. It is just as much an exploitation of game mechanics as any of the XP cheats are, just harder to resolve. As for defending the right to repeatedly kill players many many levels below you, that makes no sense at all. In the real world people like that would get outlawed & dealt with permanently, so why should MMOs be any different.
Personally, I think the two main reasons they allowed the current senseless gankfest in the first place were that it generated lots of publicity & also allowed more time for development/feedback before they replaced it with something more acceptable to the majority of AoC players who want to try PvP.
It's just simple inevitable economics, Funcom are changing the game to what the majority want.
If you can't "Have your cake & eat it too", then how can "The proof of the pudding be in the eating"?
The rules were established before all the and I am sorry to put it this way, whiners started playing on PvP servers. Why did you guys come to a PvP server if you couldn't deal with how it is. I can deal with it. I get ganked. I am not whining. Why are you? God makes me sick all the time I get people whining when you kill them and most of the time they are higher level! The names I ahve been called and the foul language I get from players I kill from all levels amazes me. "You didn't fight fair!" What...I didn't?! You started this when you jumped me right after a fight and I was resting! Who is not fighting fair?! Look...there are plenty servers for people who do not like FFA or open PvP. Why..and I will ask you again...why do you insist on changing the rules to fit your play style when there are servers available for the kind of PvP you do like? Just tell me why?
On a pve server you can't pvp at all except in minigames or border regions.
So it's pretty obvious people want to be on pvp servers where they can do world pvp without having to worry about griefers.
I don't like the system they are implementing, but I think there should be some incentives for players not to repeatedly kill someone over and over again as well as fighting people near their own level.
It takes zero skill to kill someone 10+ levels below you.
The rules were established before all the and I am sorry to put it this way, whiners started playing on PvP servers. Why did you guys come to a PvP server if you couldn't deal with how it is. I can deal with it. I get ganked. I am not whining. Why are you? God makes me sick all the time I get people whining when you kill them and most of the time they are higher level! The names I ahve been called and the foul language I get from players I kill from all levels amazes me. "You didn't fight fair!" What...I didn't?! You started this when you jumped me right after a fight and I was resting! Who is not fighting fair?! Look...there are plenty servers for people who do not like FFA or open PvP. Why..and I will ask you again...why do you insist on changing the rules to fit your play style when there are servers available for the kind of PvP you do like? Just tell me why?
On a pve server you can't pvp at all except in minigames or border regions.
So it's pretty obvious people want to be on pvp servers where they can do world pvp without having to worry about griefers.
I don't like the system they are implementing, but I think there should be some incentives for players not to repeatedly kill someone over and over again as well as fighting people near their own level.
It takes zero skill to kill someone 10+ levels below you.
that is one hell of an oxy-moron lol
open world pvp without griefers? assholes, jackasses, kids, and people who just dont care, make up a decent % of the world population in real life, not to mention the internet brings out the jackassery in people, so why would there not be a large percent of people who thoroughly enjoy making your day miserable?
open world pvp without griefers... tell that to the open world pvp mmo original master, UO. LOL, the gm's called tricking people griefing, spawn camping was your own fault, you could always spend 2 hours looking for someone with spirit speak to rez you. Don't like it? don't go outside alone. They caved to the carebear-pvp style that you are talking about, by making tram/fel where tram is the perfect PvE ruleset and fel was the open world PvP ruleset, giving carebears the illusion of having access to open world pvp, nevermind the fact fel was always empty, filled with nothing but reds waiting to gank at every portal, and a complete eye-soar. It single-handedly killed the open world pvp. You know why? because when it was real open-world pvp, eventually it molded it's own standards in terms of players and pvp, and people learned to play with it or around it.
"Sometimes, things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most. People are basically good. Honor, courage, virtue mean everything. Power and money, money and power mean nothing. Good always triumphs over evil. Love, True Love Never Dies." Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Comments
Well, I don't necessarily think it's a 100% bad system. And "killing another player repeatedly or other general unfairness"? Oh yeah. I can't target the best healer in the other guild, or I can't kill their best overall player because it might be "unfair" to always attack him. It seems good on paper but I think in reality it won't work out.
Obviously killing someone way below your level deserves some kind of punishment (i.e. being turned into what you really are, a chicken for not fighting people your own level.) Does your status ever go down? I imagine it would, but how many kills would it take for you to get to red? I like Teala's example of the guild war; there's alot of killing going on there. And what happens when a red player kills a red player? What happens if alot of people are red and they just decide to team up and keep doing what they've been doing (especially if they're high levels)?
So, I guess we just need to see how it really works out, but I think they're going to have to break and mend this over and over until it works just right.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
I have questions to those that play on FFA PvP servers now.
1) Were you never killed by someone or groups that were higher level then you?
2) If you were, did it really hurt you so much that you see these new rules as a necessity?
3) If you answered yes to #2 why did you choose to play on an FFA PvP server?
Look I am ganked all the time. I don't whine bitch and moan about it. I just respawn and bid my time. Because the time will come when I am their level and I will not be such an easy target. I was singled out by Goons the very first day and I think my character died somewhere close to 50 times. She was spawn camped, I changed instances...did a few quest....they found her again...she was spawned camped...I changed again. I managed to level despite the Goons.
If I could do it, and I am not that good at PvP, and am not bitching and moaning...why are any of you? Is your skin so thin that you take this stuff personally? It's just a game. A little harsher than some due to the existing rule sets, but it is just a game.
If Funcom does anything they need to give us reasons "to" PvP...not hamper us in our PvP as these new rules will do. Right now there is no real reason to PvP other than to see the occaisional Goon have to respawn.
They need to allow for seiges and guild vs guild warfare and this means "open" warfare and not just in some designated instances...we need to be able to fight each other when ever and where ever we see fit. I still hate the guards at outpost, and the fact we can't kill in certain zones. Makes no since to me...but hey that is just me. I prefer games like oldschool UO and AC's Darktide where no place was safe.
FFA PvP means just that...not "we'll hold your hand and protect you from the big bad ganker" as you level BS. Sorry if I sound a little PO'd, but you guys knew this coming into the FFA PvP servers and now you want to change the rules to protect you.
I think Funcom needs to change the name of their FFA PvP servers to:
CAREBEAR SERVERS o.O
I agree, yet still not. Its "FFA PVP", not "Asshats galore" or "Spawncampers R Us".
The biggest reason (in my opinion) that they put this in was because people were crying and complaining to Funcom instead of telling their fellow players who is a spawn camper and who should be taken down. Or, the players did not have enough incentive to team up and kill those asshats, for whatever reason. Either way when you have a FFA server it doesn't have to mean you're on your own. It can mean that people team up, and if people can team up to kill you, then you can team up to kill them. You should be able to anyways.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
I agree, yet still not. Its "FFA PVP", not "Asshats galore" or "Spawncampers R Us".
Then you shouldn't be playing on an FFA PvP server then should you? Because those people exist on an FFA PvP server. Don't like them camping you. Get some people together and camp them. It happens all the time in FotD and Eiglophian Mountains, Atzels, you name it. Don't like it get a group together and put a stop to it or change instances. That is how an FFA PvP server works and it works well.
FFA PvP means just that. If you do not like it don't play on one.
Repeated killings toward very little actual consequence are basically the result of poor or non-existant zone control mechanisms.
In other words what does repeatedly killing someone do on most MMORPGs. Usually nothing after the first loss. They do it for pyschological reasons.
Basically it is a means to assert dominance over another. Most FFA PvP games are merely poorly implemented. People think that the FFA PvP solves everything. But they are wrong because the underlying mechanics do not allow you to do what you actually want to do.
That being to control things through violence. That is one of the reasons Eve's PvP design is simply better. You simply can't kill someone over and over. Because if you pod them they respawn at some station possibly very far away.
By podding whoever comes into your system, you control that system through attrition. Eve is much more cuttthroat than AoC yet does not have repeated ganking because the idea itself makes very little sense. Ganking generally just means ambushing or out numbering people as far as unfairness.
Anytime a game has stuff like this you should instantly place the blame on the developers. Yeah the people doing are dumbasses or petty sociopaths. But in the end itself PvP is and always will be about asserting dominance and when you do not properly allows a person or guild or whatever to actually control and dominate then you get stupid crap like this.
I think they should make this as a ruleset on some servers and leave the others be. I guess the problem with that is they would already have to do char transfers, which I'm sure they aren't ready for that undertaking.
I agree, yet still not. Its "FFA PVP", not "Asshats galore" or "Spawncampers R Us".
Then you shouldn't be playing on an FFA PvP server then should you? Because those people exist on an FFA PvP server. Don't like them camping you. Get some people together and camp them. It happens all the time in FotD and Eiglophian Mountains, Atzels, you name it. Don't like it get a group together and put a stop to it or change instances. That is how an FFA PvP server works and it works well.
FFA PvP means just that. If you do not like it don't play on one.
I think the real question is not whether the people who dislike the "Spawncampers R Us" model are playing on the wrong servers, rather it is whether there are enough people who get off on such cowardly behaviour to justify having a separate server for hardcore sociopaths.
Calling people that disagree with you 'Carebears' doesn't change anything. If more players want 'PvP with Consequences' then that is what will happen, because Funcom will do whatever is likely to maximise account retention & of course profit.
In their game, FFA PvP means whatever Funcom decide & if you do not like the changes don't play it.
If you can't "Have your cake & eat it too", then how can "The proof of the pudding be in the eating"?
Take the Hecatomb? TCG What Is Your Doom? quiz.
Equipment type available means that your class can not use this weapon type until the level stated. This confused me as well when I started out playing.
You are missing the point. It is a level 50 sword in a place that only goes to level 20(or a little past). Also see those damage stats. Well after you leave Tortage...it doesn't get much better from randomly dropped loot. Quest items give you the best stats and random drops are just pure junk.
Uhhhhh That is only lvl 50 because YOUR CLASS can only use that type weapon at lvl 50. The sword itself is not a lvl 50 item. This does not show anything bad about the loot system, just shows how bad your understanding of it is.
By the way I've looted some nice blue items in the ruins
As for the lowbies being KOS if in a enemy Guild I totally agree with that. A enemy guild should be full open to attack. Safe lowbies will be a method guilds can exploit. Hopefully funcom adresses that.
As for killing people 20-50 levels lower then you being what pvp servers are all about?
Personally I find pvp alot more fun when your fighting someone your own level, not running around kicking babies over.
The only people who go around ganking lowbies suck too much at pvp to fight people who can fight back.
Personally instead of this fugative system I think if your more then 5 levels they should be grey to you. Not count at all in stats. No way should killing someone level 15 when your 50 give you any kill stat. Thats just pathetic.
SHOHADAKU
I agree, yet still not. Its "FFA PVP", not "Asshats galore" or "Spawncampers R Us".
blah blah blah
Then you shouldn't be playing on an FFA PvP server
blah blah
exist on an FFA PvP server. blah blah
That is how an FFA PvP server works and it works well.
FFA PvP means just that. If you do not like it don't play on one.
It is AMAZING how clueless some of you people are.
OK
for the record
THERE ARE NO FFA SERVERS IN AOC
None. Zilch. Zero. Nada. Read your stupid manual. Read the website. Read it all
Nowhere
NOWHERE
does it use the letters FFA.
You are living in a FANTASY. you are DELUSIONAL.
The PvP servers are (NO FFA) AND I QUOTE FROM THE GAME MANUAL PAGE 7
:"Game Servers with a LOOSER approach to player-vs-player combat. These servers offer more challenge and may not be suitable for new players."
Thats IT. Get it thru your freaking thick skulls. FFA does not exist on AOC atm.
PERIOD.
As for the Fugitive system, I am sure they will tweak it in the future. The fact that they are implementiong ANYTHING to deal with the lvl60's killing lvl 30's or people ganking others while in quest window makes me thrilled. It is freaking OBVIOUS that Funcom considers fair PvP to be essential. My response? EFFIN ABOUT TIME.
Griefing asshats wailing that they might be griefed.
Oh, the irony of it all.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
I agree, yet still not. Its "FFA PVP", not "Asshats galore" or "Spawncampers R Us".
blah blah blah
Then you shouldn't be playing on an FFA PvP server
blah blah
exist on an FFA PvP server. blah blah
That is how an FFA PvP server works and it works well.
FFA PvP means just that. If you do not like it don't play on one.
It is AMAZING how clueless some of you people are.
OK
for the record
THERE ARE NO FFA SERVERS IN AOC
None. Zilch. Zero. Nada. Read your stupid manual. Read the website. Read it all
Nowhere
NOWHERE
does it use the letters FFA.
You are living in a FANTASY. you are DELUSIONAL.
The PvP servers are (NO FFA) AND I QUOTE FROM THE GAME MANUAL PAGE 7
:"Game Servers with a LOOSER approach to player-vs-player combat. These servers offer more challenge and may not be suitable for new players."
Thats IT. Get it thru your freaking thick skulls. FFA does not exist on AOC atm.
PERIOD.
As for the Fugitive system, I am sure they will tweak it in the future. The fact that they are implementiong ANYTHING to deal with the lvl60's killing lvl 30's or people ganking others while in quest window makes me thrilled. It is freaking OBVIOUS that Funcom considers fair PvP to be essential. My response? EFFIN ABOUT TIME.
Always a good tip... read the manual... hehehe
Well, what this idea does is offer an automated way of transmitting a player's reputation to other players. Since most of us can't spend all day online sussing out a players reputation on our own, and may not hang out on the official server forum to get the latest on who is vying for the coveted title of asshat du jour, what this system does is let you know is who spends all their time ganking and who does not. It strips away the anonymity of some ganking players.
Which obviously upsets those players. It creates consequences for actions.
Which drives some people nuts, as they'll have to start behaving themselves!
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Well, what this idea does is offer an automated way of transmitting a player's reputation to other players. Since most of us can't spend all day online sussing out a players reputation on our own, and may not hang out on the official server forum to get the latest on who is vying for the coveted title of asshat du jour, what this system does is let you know is who spends all their time ganking and who does not. It strips away the anonymity of some ganking players.
Which obviously upsets those players. It creates consequences for actions.
Which drives some people nuts, as they'll have to start behaving themselves!
Doesn't have to be necessarily about who has what kind of rep. It's about what happens if you're walking along then you get ganked and then spawn camped. Whether the guy doing it is a first timer or a feared veteran, if you get together a group of players to take him down, it'll solve your problem. Who cares if other people are doing it or not?
Then, later on, if you see someone else asking for help because they're in the same situation, you know that you should help them if you want them to help you. Whether it be the same person that harassed you or not.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
It's funny how the best and only FFA PvP system to ever work correctly was 10 years ago with Ultima Online.
I support this ganking system.
But seriously, FC must have thought about the issues that Teala is rightfully pointing out. We need more details about the proposed "Fugitive System" and it's ramifications on Guild conflict, naked players, and the like.
I'm shocked.
I always figured that real pvpers would savor the challenge of a consequence-based system in their pvp.
Don't you want to be challenged and face some real risk for how you play?
Siiingin in the raaiiin... wait a minute, these are tears! Stop cryin' wolf before the wolf is even born. Try the system, then pick it apart with your disagreements. A lot of your fears might be unfounded since Funcom just could have thought of all these things.
Sociopaths really hate it when there are consequences for their actions.
Hence the gnashing of teeth and lamentations we're seeing on this thread as actual consequences for being an asshat become reality.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
I do not play AOC, but I have played pvp mmorpg's since UO.
FFA PVP is not all about high level players just running around killing all the low level players. However, when there are no penalties in the game what so ever this is what happens.
It happens in every game and the developers want to keep players paying and playing. The current system does not do that. Look around the web and all the reviews where it is clearly stated by reviewer's and player's.
You want to kill low level players fine pay the price I have in the past! UO and lineage 2.
Wars declared between guilds never caused me to drop a thing. But if the opposing guild did not accept the war there was nothing you could do but talk bad about them.
It amazes me how people call FFA PVP great where a lvl 50 guy can go gank all the new players in a game. Please cry me a river!!
You're not a PvPer if you're afraid of losing stuff.
if you want to pvp and not lose stuff, dont gank newbies 3 hours in row, mkay? ...fight your own size.
The rules were established before all the and I am sorry to put it this way, whiners started playing on PvP servers. Why did you guys come to a PvP server if you couldn't deal with how it is. I can deal with it. I get ganked. I am not whining. Why are you?
God makes me sick all the time I get people whining when you kill them and most of the time they are higher level! The names I ahve been called and the foul language I get from players I kill from all levels amazes me. "You didn't fight fair!" What...I didn't?! You started this when you jumped me right after a fight and I was resting! Who is not fighting fair?!
Look...there are plenty servers for people who do not like FFA or open PvP. Why..and I will ask you again...why do you insist on changing the rules to fit your play style when there are servers available for the kind of PvP you do like?
Just tell me why?
The obvious reason is that just as in RL, the way to make money is to keep the majority happy.
Why should people who want to try PvP have to put up with Spawn Camping Griefers? More importantly, if the majority of AoC players who want to try PvP also feel this way then why should Funcom potentially alientate them & lose money because others really do get their kicks by stealing candy from babies?
I don't understand how people can even try to defend spawn camping. It is just as much an exploitation of game mechanics as any of the XP cheats are, just harder to resolve. As for defending the right to repeatedly kill players many many levels below you, that makes no sense at all. In the real world people like that would get outlawed & dealt with permanently, so why should MMOs be any different.
Personally, I think the two main reasons they allowed the current senseless gankfest in the first place were that it generated lots of publicity & also allowed more time for development/feedback before they replaced it with something more acceptable to the majority of AoC players who want to try PvP.
It's just simple inevitable economics, Funcom are changing the game to what the majority want.
If you can't "Have your cake & eat it too", then how can "The proof of the pudding be in the eating"?
Take the Hecatomb? TCG What Is Your Doom? quiz.
On a pve server you can't pvp at all except in minigames or border regions.
So it's pretty obvious people want to be on pvp servers where they can do world pvp without having to worry about griefers.
I don't like the system they are implementing, but I think there should be some incentives for players not to repeatedly kill someone over and over again as well as fighting people near their own level.
It takes zero skill to kill someone 10+ levels below you.
On a pve server you can't pvp at all except in minigames or border regions.
So it's pretty obvious people want to be on pvp servers where they can do world pvp without having to worry about griefers.
I don't like the system they are implementing, but I think there should be some incentives for players not to repeatedly kill someone over and over again as well as fighting people near their own level.
It takes zero skill to kill someone 10+ levels below you.
that is one hell of an oxy-moron lol
open world pvp without griefers? assholes, jackasses, kids, and people who just dont care, make up a decent % of the world population in real life, not to mention the internet brings out the jackassery in people, so why would there not be a large percent of people who thoroughly enjoy making your day miserable?
open world pvp without griefers... tell that to the open world pvp mmo original master, UO. LOL, the gm's called tricking people griefing, spawn camping was your own fault, you could always spend 2 hours looking for someone with spirit speak to rez you. Don't like it? don't go outside alone. They caved to the carebear-pvp style that you are talking about, by making tram/fel where tram is the perfect PvE ruleset and fel was the open world PvP ruleset, giving carebears the illusion of having access to open world pvp, nevermind the fact fel was always empty, filled with nothing but reds waiting to gank at every portal, and a complete eye-soar. It single-handedly killed the open world pvp. You know why? because when it was real open-world pvp, eventually it molded it's own standards in terms of players and pvp, and people learned to play with it or around it.
"Sometimes, things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most. People are basically good. Honor, courage, virtue mean everything. Power and money, money and power mean nothing. Good always triumphs over evil. Love, True Love Never Dies."
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?