http://www.gametrailers.com/player/35242.html He says it's not a recipe based game then he goes on to describe what sound esactly like a recipe where you put ingredients together to make something which is whata recipe is lol. In MMORPG's a 'recipe' is an item itself which has to be bought or looted so you can make said item. He also says he doesn't want players to make useless items and making hundreds of them to advance their skill. However he then says later on that there can be different outcomes of making the same thing so it's like players will just spend ages making useless crap until they get the outcome they want or the chance they'll create a special potion once in awhile. Well it depends on whether the non-special potions are useless crap or not doesn't it? it'll end up being like a side thought they tacked on and be pointless. Yes, I think it is a bit of a side thought, but lets see how well it goes. I also don't get how they will stop you from grinding up your crafting skill because there has to be some sort of advancement system which will probably be crafting hidden under words.... There will, but I dont think it will be like DAoC or WoW where you make crap specifically to gain levels.
Kinda like how they say RVR instead of factional PVP like most mmorpgs and try to make it out to be something revolutionary and amazing when infact it plays esactly like factional battlegrounds to me lol. You have not played DAoC I take it? RvR is not like other forms of PvP. Nothing like. Give it a go sometime, you might like.
Recipe based crafting requires buying a recipe, WAR crafting is trial and error. RVR is PvP that gives each realm benefits from PvP. Factional PvP is usually A vs B with no real side adavantages gained or lost.
1, Putting items together to make sumthing is esactly like a recipe
2. So it's factional PVP with faction benefits then.
This is where you have to start using the goo inside your cranium to move beyond black and white thinking and seeing the colors.
I was about to post/say that WAR's crafting system provides nothing new really. Just a mix of old stuff. But then I hit the end of the vid and Marc said "These are not new ideas. But take em and put them together in a really interesting way."
That was actually a nice surprise to hear such an honest statement. It's like he said: "We're making a theme park MMO. Theme Parks have their downsides, we're not trying to hide it. But hey! We're trying to make it fun nonetheless !
That is actually the general vibe you get with WAR. Mythic admit that their game is just one step away from what the MMO genre is right now, but they try to make the game more interesting by making their slight variations and their few original features fun.
That's not actually as good as thinking 100% out of the box (making a sandbox game for example). But that could be way worse, they could try to hide it. *cough* Funcom *cough*
Kinda like how they say RVR instead of factional PVP like most mmorpgs and try to make it out to be something revolutionary and amazing when infact it plays esactly like factional battlegrounds to me lol.
That's pretty funny describing RvR as if its like all other PvP systems....you really have no idea nor have played DAoC to understand what RvR is all about! As far as the revolutionary and amazing...well notice how Mythic was smart enough too patent the RvR idea and how everyone else tries to copy it but fails miserably.
There is no copying RvR, just like all the developers that try to copy the Mario formula, it just can't be done!
yes i played daoc and in daoc there was 3 realms that fought against each other, thats what made it so unique..if one side was overpowered the other two could team up against the strongest realm..war is just horde against alliance, 2 sided factional pvp its nothing like DAOC.
This looks like a valid point. Why on earth didn't they put 3 realms?
well its 6 sides in the break down orcs hate the dwarfs. dark elf vs high elf and human vs chaos, if u view it at the point. but the evil side in warhammer usually fights among itself. beside they will add expansion later. and the side will be balanced it all depends on the player info of their chosen class. everything will work out in the end.........we hope. cuz aoc not a bad game but dear god funcom fudge that one up good.
well its 6 sides in the break down orcs hate the dwarfs. dark elf vs high elf and human vs chaos, if u view it at the point. but the evil side in warhammer usually fights among itself. beside they will add expansion later. and the side will be balanced it all depends on the player info of their chosen class. everything will work out in the end.........we hope. cuz aoc not a bad game but dear god funcom fudge that one up good.
Ah yes.. I forgot about this:
RvR combat takes place on three fronts where ancient foes wage an unending war - Dwarfs vs. Greenskins, High Elf vs. Dark Elf, and Empire vs. Chaos. Players begin the game fighting their ancestral enemy, but are free to journey to other fronts to help their allies in their ongoing struggles.
well its 6 sides in the break down orcs hate the dwarfs. dark elf vs high elf and human vs chaos, if u view it at the point. but the evil side in warhammer usually fights among itself. beside they will add expansion later. and the side will be balanced it all depends on the player info of their chosen class. everything will work out in the end.........we hope. cuz aoc not a bad game but dear god funcom fudge that one up good.
Ah yes.. I forgot about this:
RvR combat takes place on three fronts where ancient foes wage an unending war - Dwarfs vs. Greenskins, High Elf vs. Dark Elf, and Empire vs. Chaos. Players begin the game fighting their ancestral enemy, but are free to journey to other fronts to help their allies in their ongoing struggles.
First off a fair warning to everyone, dont call someone a troll you will get a warning.
To the person that thinks EA is in controll....to an extent yes but lets not forget if GW doesnt like the way things are going they can and will pull the plug. They have before.
in other games they tell you what to put together to make something, in Warhammer you experiment and write down what makes what i.e. the recipe...
regardless you'll end up with a recipe book.
By that logic its pretty much impossible to have a non-recipe based crafting system. Unless you're going to just make it out of thin air... In which case I guess the ingredient would be "thin air" which would still be a recipe!
Hmm so impossible then...
- - "What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?" - -
Recipe based crafting requires buying a recipe, WAR crafting is trial and error. RVR is PvP that gives each realm benefits from PvP. Factional PvP is usually A vs B with no real side adavantages gained or lost.
1, Putting items together to make sumthing is esactly like a recipe
2. So it's factional PVP with faction benefits then.
so how much are you paying for these war recipes? are they one-use recipes (or limited use) like many games? or, do you use the recipe once and know the formula from then on?
oh wait, there's NOT recipes.
so, what you're advocating is a crafting system where you don't combine raw mats of some sort to make a final product?
what exactly do you believe the word "crafting" means, in regards to any game?
it's rvr, look up daoc if you really don't understand the concept. the only "faction" that ever had benefits worth having WAS uo, back in the day, not sure if it still does or not.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
in other games they tell you what to put together to make something, in Warhammer you experiment and write down what makes what i.e. the recipe...
regardless you'll end up with a recipe book.
By that logic its pretty much impossible to have a non-recipe based crafting system. Unless you're going to just make it out of thin air... In which case I guess the ingredient would be "thin air" which would still be a recipe!
Hmm so impossible then...
I'm just pointing out how the crafting system works. Why do you think real craftsmen / tradesmen have recipes / plans / schematics etc......
I like the system in Warhammer, I think it will be fun, but just prepare yourself for websites with 'recipes' or 'combinations' listed on them.
If you dont understand RvR then try out DAoC. To the guy who asked why they didnt put in 3 realms in WAR.. well I have never played the tabletop game but from what I understand there isnt 3 realms.. its good vs evil. They are trying to stay as close to the IP as they can. Not sure how they would do a 3rd "realm" anyway.. good vs evil vs neutral? lol cept the neutral side wouldent want to fight cuz they are... neutral..
And on the crafting side.. they said right up front they arnt going to focus heavy on crafting in this game. I think thats cool.. was never much of a crafting whore myself. rather be axing someone in the face. I like what they did do with the crafting they have tho. i like that its not recipe based.. i can just throw whatever the hell i want in an see what comes out. and yes you will eventualy have a list of your own "recipes" or other people will list the combinations they used. but you dont HAVE to follow any of them and it wont cost you anything. but even if you do find out the "Uber combos" and use them.. again.. it didnt cost you anything.. didnt have to go to a npc an buy the recipe for X amounts of money then use it to make only that one thing that does the same thing every time.
If you dont understand RvR then try out DAoC. To the guy who asked why they didnt put in 3 realms in WAR.. well I have never played the tabletop game but from what I understand there isnt 3 realms.. its good vs evil. They are trying to stay as close to the IP as they can. Not sure how they would do a 3rd "realm" anyway.. good vs evil vs neutral? lol cept the neutral side wouldent want to fight cuz they are... neutral.. And on the crafting side.. they said right up front they arnt going to focus heavy on crafting in this game. I think thats cool.. was never much of a crafting whore myself. rather be axing someone in the face. I like what they did do with the crafting they have tho. i like that its not recipe based.. i can just throw whatever the hell i want in an see what comes out. and yes you will eventualy have a list of your own "recipes" or other people will list the combinations they used. but you dont HAVE to follow any of them and it wont cost you anything. but even if you do find out the "Uber combos" and use them.. again.. it didnt cost you anything.. didnt have to go to a npc an buy the recipe for X amounts of money then use it to make only that one thing that does the same thing every time.
but even if you do find out the "Uber combos" and use them.. again.. it didnt cost you anything.. didnt have to go to a npc an buy the recipe for X amounts of money then use it to make only that one thing that does the same thing every time.
So in time this will be the only difference. Looks like a very poor innovation to me. But it will be fun to find the best combinations for a while, until websites have got all of them.
but even if you do find out the "Uber combos" and use them.. again.. it didnt cost you anything.. didnt have to go to a npc an buy the recipe for X amounts of money then use it to make only that one thing that does the same thing every time.
So in time this will be the only difference. Looks like a very poor innovation to me. But it will be fun to find the best combinations for a while, until websites have got all of them.
I guess so long as they keep adding new outcomes as it goes along and there enough of them it'll prolong the system's enjoyability.
I totally misunderstood the crafting thing then. I thought they were saying it'd be more combine-anything in nature. For example, the quality of Ingredient 1 defines the result as a healing potion. The quality of Ingredient 2 defines its duration. Ingredient 3 determines how strong it is. But I might have extrapolated poorly from the video.
Also, I think what they meant by not making hundreds of useless items is that everything will be consumable. Healing potions are used up fairly rapidly, unlike a sword which never gets 'used up' until it's replaced. Selling a dozen swords might be impossible, but selling a dozen healing potions might not be.
Crafting, at first, struck me as a recipe based system still, but in any crafting you will always have a recipe of some sort.
I guess this means that: "recipe based system" means you must first have a recipe before anything can be done. WAR is giving you the items and telling you to find out the recipes. I doubt you will have to write down the recipes you find, it would just strike me as "INSERT ADDON HERE" from the getgo.
As for the RvR debate and being 3-way fighting... While the overall conflict is 2 faction, Order vs Destruction like Games Workshop demands...
The internal conflict is Three Way. Orcs vs Dwarves, Chaos vs Empire, High Elves vs Dark Elves.
So you still have the 3 way combat going on, just on a different twist from the FFA it was before.
I see it as, Order might be able to get 1 or 2 of their cities to Maximum Status, but if they try to hold 3, Destruction can just concentrate on one city and take it over.
In my head, that is what I see will lead to the constant struggle. One side can never trully hold all three cities at max status, because if they try, they will lose one, two, or possibly all. But that won't stop anyone from trying, particularly if the rewards for each of the cities are worth defending, and attacking for.
Originally posted by altairzq So in time this will be the only difference. Looks like a very poor innovation to me. But it will be fun to find the best combinations for a while, until websites have got all of them.
So don't look them up.
I don't think anyone is forcing you to...
The interwebz sites like thottbot have ruined the MMO experience. It's hard to play a game about adventure and discovery if you have a step by step guide through everything.
Originally posted by altairzq So in time this will be the only difference. Looks like a very poor innovation to me. But it will be fun to find the best combinations for a while, until websites have got all of them.
So don't look them up.
I don't think anyone is forcing you to...
The interwebz sites like thottbot have ruined the MMO experience. It's hard to play a game about adventure and discovery if you have a step by step guide through everything.
Well.. of course you don't have to, but if you don't want to be loled at, it's a must.
personally I find statements like "RVR plays esactly like factional battlegrounds." to be funny. It reminds me of my mom trying to talk about computers. The OP clearly hasn't bothered to do any research. Otherwise he wouldn't make silly comments like that.
RvR: is both PvP and PvE. Yes part of it is PvP beating your opponents down. It's also PvP laying siege to a fort or city. It's PvE accomplishing quests to help your faction win the war.
If the above isn't clear enough then understand this. In WAR at the very start of the game my rank 1 (level 1) chaos chosen can start helping the over-all war effort by completing PvE quests. This will further the overall goal of fighting and winning the war by sieging and sacking an enemy capital.
In no other game that i'm aware of (besides daoc perhaps) is this style of game play an option. In every other game i'm aware of, it's kill your opponent, capture the flag, or king of the hill for no other purpose than "I get faction points" or worse "because I can". In WAR, your victories help EVERYONE in your faction. Your every failure brings the enemy one step close to sacking and burning YOUR CAPITAL CITY!
Originally posted by altairzq So in time this will be the only difference. Looks like a very poor innovation to me. But it will be fun to find the best combinations for a while, until websites have got all of them.
So don't look them up.
I don't think anyone is forcing you to...
The interwebz sites like thottbot have ruined the MMO experience. It's hard to play a game about adventure and discovery if you have a step by step guide through everything.
Well.. of course you don't have to, but if you don't want to be loled at, it's a must.
You know, I was gonna go out and defend the crafting system but I agree with your statement. What the devs are doing appears to be a truly short-term vision of crafting. To put it bluntly for those who argue about it being the same as a recipe system: it is, but it's inverted. Instead of being guided by the recipes you find as to what materials you need, you're guided by the materials you have into finding the pre-set recipes. Therefore, unless they set up a really complex combination system that lets you freely combine materials into new stuff, then we're gonna have to deal with the same old "How to create the BEST potion of X type" internet guide. That is to say, IF the recipe system is hierarchy-based.
That would be an interesting question. Are the items gonna be stratified by player level and those kind of things? Or will their level of effectiveness be tier-based? Or will it be both at the same time? If they're tier-based then the effectiveness will be standard, which will mean that there will be no "BEST potions" and so on.
And it's not only that. They say they don't want grinding for advancing crafting. But they hide the fact that many no-life players will do an incredible grind to find the right components, while the normal crafter will be left in ignorance, until he/she can read it in a website.
That, or the right components will be easy to find, then there will be no innovation whatsoever.
If the combinations system would be something new and incredible as you point as a possibility, I'm sure they would have hyped it a thousand times months ago... more or less as they have done with the Tome of Knowledge. Crafting seems more like a complement to the game.
Comments
1, Putting items together to make sumthing is esactly like a recipe
2. So it's factional PVP with faction benefits then.
This is where you have to start using the goo inside your cranium to move beyond black and white thinking and seeing the colors.
I was about to post/say that WAR's crafting system provides nothing new really. Just a mix of old stuff.
But then I hit the end of the vid and Marc said "These are not new ideas. But take em and put them together in a really interesting way."
That was actually a nice surprise to hear such an honest statement. It's like he said:
"We're making a theme park MMO. Theme Parks have their downsides, we're not trying to hide it. But hey! We're trying to make it fun nonetheless !
That is actually the general vibe you get with WAR. Mythic admit that their game is just one step away from what the MMO genre is right now, but they try to make the game more interesting by making their slight variations and their few original features fun.
That's not actually as good as thinking 100% out of the box (making a sandbox game for example). But that could be way worse, they could try to hide it. *cough* Funcom *cough*
---
Waiting for: GW2
*thumbs up*: GW, Eve(, WoW)
*thumbs down*: MO, GA, FE
*points at the troll and then goes and smacks everyones hands*
Stop feeding it! If you look at its post history, youll see it for the troll it is...What what do we do to trolls?
Why, you send a Slayer after it.
That's pretty funny describing RvR as if its like all other PvP systems....you really have no idea nor have played DAoC to understand what RvR is all about! As far as the revolutionary and amazing...well notice how Mythic was smart enough too patent the RvR idea and how everyone else tries to copy it but fails miserably.
There is no copying RvR, just like all the developers that try to copy the Mario formula, it just can't be done!
yes i played daoc and in daoc there was 3 realms that fought against each other, thats what made it so unique..if one side was overpowered the other two could team up against the strongest realm..war is just horde against alliance, 2 sided factional pvp its nothing like DAOC.
This looks like a valid point. Why on earth didn't they put 3 realms?
well its 6 sides in the break down orcs hate the dwarfs. dark elf vs high elf and human vs chaos, if u view it at the point. but the evil side in warhammer usually fights among itself. beside they will add expansion later. and the side will be balanced it all depends on the player info of their chosen class. everything will work out in the end.........we hope. cuz aoc not a bad game but dear god funcom fudge that one up good.
Ah yes.. I forgot about this:
RvR combat takes place on three fronts where ancient foes wage an unending war - Dwarfs vs. Greenskins, High Elf vs. Dark Elf, and Empire vs. Chaos. Players begin the game fighting their ancestral enemy, but are free to journey to other fronts to help their allies in their ongoing struggles.
Ah yes.. I forgot about this:
RvR combat takes place on three fronts where ancient foes wage an unending war - Dwarfs vs. Greenskins, High Elf vs. Dark Elf, and Empire vs. Chaos. Players begin the game fighting their ancestral enemy, but are free to journey to other fronts to help their allies in their ongoing struggles.
nicely put.
First off a fair warning to everyone, dont call someone a troll you will get a warning.
To the person that thinks EA is in controll....to an extent yes but lets not forget if GW doesnt like the way things are going they can and will pull the plug. They have before.
the crafting (recipe) system is just reversed.
in other games they tell you what to put together to make something, in Warhammer you experiment and write down what makes what i.e. the recipe...
regardless you'll end up with a recipe book.
Haha that made me laugh!
By that logic its pretty much impossible to have a non-recipe based crafting system. Unless you're going to just make it out of thin air... In which case I guess the ingredient would be "thin air" which would still be a recipe!
Hmm so impossible then...
- - "What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?" - -
1, Putting items together to make sumthing is esactly like a recipe
2. So it's factional PVP with faction benefits then.
so how much are you paying for these war recipes? are they one-use recipes (or limited use) like many games? or, do you use the recipe once and know the formula from then on?
oh wait, there's NOT recipes.
so, what you're advocating is a crafting system where you don't combine raw mats of some sort to make a final product?
what exactly do you believe the word "crafting" means, in regards to any game?
it's rvr, look up daoc if you really don't understand the concept. the only "faction" that ever had benefits worth having WAS uo, back in the day, not sure if it still does or not.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
By that logic its pretty much impossible to have a non-recipe based crafting system. Unless you're going to just make it out of thin air... In which case I guess the ingredient would be "thin air" which would still be a recipe!
Hmm so impossible then...
I'm just pointing out how the crafting system works. Why do you think real craftsmen / tradesmen have recipes / plans / schematics etc......
I like the system in Warhammer, I think it will be fun, but just prepare yourself for websites with 'recipes' or 'combinations' listed on them.
You're right, it does seem unavoidable.
If you dont understand RvR then try out DAoC. To the guy who asked why they didnt put in 3 realms in WAR.. well I have never played the tabletop game but from what I understand there isnt 3 realms.. its good vs evil. They are trying to stay as close to the IP as they can. Not sure how they would do a 3rd "realm" anyway.. good vs evil vs neutral? lol cept the neutral side wouldent want to fight cuz they are... neutral..
And on the crafting side.. they said right up front they arnt going to focus heavy on crafting in this game. I think thats cool.. was never much of a crafting whore myself. rather be axing someone in the face. I like what they did do with the crafting they have tho. i like that its not recipe based.. i can just throw whatever the hell i want in an see what comes out. and yes you will eventualy have a list of your own "recipes" or other people will list the combinations they used. but you dont HAVE to follow any of them and it wont cost you anything. but even if you do find out the "Uber combos" and use them.. again.. it didnt cost you anything.. didnt have to go to a npc an buy the recipe for X amounts of money then use it to make only that one thing that does the same thing every time.
Well said, it will be a fun system for sure.
So in time this will be the only difference. Looks like a very poor innovation to me. But it will be fun to find the best combinations for a while, until websites have got all of them.
So in time this will be the only difference. Looks like a very poor innovation to me. But it will be fun to find the best combinations for a while, until websites have got all of them.
I guess so long as they keep adding new outcomes as it goes along and there enough of them it'll prolong the system's enjoyability.
I totally misunderstood the crafting thing then. I thought they were saying it'd be more combine-anything in nature. For example, the quality of Ingredient 1 defines the result as a healing potion. The quality of Ingredient 2 defines its duration. Ingredient 3 determines how strong it is. But I might have extrapolated poorly from the video.
Also, I think what they meant by not making hundreds of useless items is that everything will be consumable. Healing potions are used up fairly rapidly, unlike a sword which never gets 'used up' until it's replaced. Selling a dozen swords might be impossible, but selling a dozen healing potions might not be.
Crafting, at first, struck me as a recipe based system still, but in any crafting you will always have a recipe of some sort.
I guess this means that: "recipe based system" means you must first have a recipe before anything can be done. WAR is giving you the items and telling you to find out the recipes. I doubt you will have to write down the recipes you find, it would just strike me as "INSERT ADDON HERE" from the getgo.
As for the RvR debate and being 3-way fighting... While the overall conflict is 2 faction, Order vs Destruction like Games Workshop demands...
The internal conflict is Three Way. Orcs vs Dwarves, Chaos vs Empire, High Elves vs Dark Elves.
So you still have the 3 way combat going on, just on a different twist from the FFA it was before.
I see it as, Order might be able to get 1 or 2 of their cities to Maximum Status, but if they try to hold 3, Destruction can just concentrate on one city and take it over.
In my head, that is what I see will lead to the constant struggle. One side can never trully hold all three cities at max status, because if they try, they will lose one, two, or possibly all. But that won't stop anyone from trying, particularly if the rewards for each of the cities are worth defending, and attacking for.
So don't look them up.
I don't think anyone is forcing you to...
The interwebz sites like thottbot have ruined the MMO experience. It's hard to play a game about adventure and discovery if you have a step by step guide through everything.
So don't look them up.
I don't think anyone is forcing you to...
The interwebz sites like thottbot have ruined the MMO experience. It's hard to play a game about adventure and discovery if you have a step by step guide through everything.
Well.. of course you don't have to, but if you don't want to be loled at, it's a must.
personally I find statements like "RVR plays esactly like factional battlegrounds." to be funny.
It reminds me of my mom trying to talk about computers. 
The OP clearly hasn't bothered to do any research. Otherwise he wouldn't make silly comments like that.
RvR: is both PvP and PvE. Yes part of it is PvP beating your opponents down. It's also PvP laying siege to a fort or city. It's PvE accomplishing quests to help your faction win the war.
If the above isn't clear enough then understand this. In WAR at the very start of the game my rank 1 (level 1) chaos chosen can start helping the over-all war effort by completing PvE quests. This will further the overall goal of fighting and winning the war by sieging and sacking an enemy capital.
In no other game that i'm aware of (besides daoc perhaps) is this style of game play an option. In every other game i'm aware of, it's kill your opponent, capture the flag, or king of the hill for no other purpose than "I get faction points" or worse "because I can". In WAR, your victories help EVERYONE in your faction. Your every failure brings the enemy one step close to sacking and burning YOUR CAPITAL CITY!
We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
So don't look them up.
I don't think anyone is forcing you to...
The interwebz sites like thottbot have ruined the MMO experience. It's hard to play a game about adventure and discovery if you have a step by step guide through everything.
Well.. of course you don't have to, but if you don't want to be loled at, it's a must.
You know, I was gonna go out and defend the crafting system but I agree with your statement. What the devs are doing appears to be a truly short-term vision of crafting. To put it bluntly for those who argue about it being the same as a recipe system: it is, but it's inverted. Instead of being guided by the recipes you find as to what materials you need, you're guided by the materials you have into finding the pre-set recipes. Therefore, unless they set up a really complex combination system that lets you freely combine materials into new stuff, then we're gonna have to deal with the same old "How to create the BEST potion of X type" internet guide. That is to say, IF the recipe system is hierarchy-based.
That would be an interesting question. Are the items gonna be stratified by player level and those kind of things? Or will their level of effectiveness be tier-based? Or will it be both at the same time? If they're tier-based then the effectiveness will be standard, which will mean that there will be no "BEST potions" and so on.
And it's not only that. They say they don't want grinding for advancing crafting. But they hide the fact that many no-life players will do an incredible grind to find the right components, while the normal crafter will be left in ignorance, until he/she can read it in a website.
That, or the right components will be easy to find, then there will be no innovation whatsoever.
If the combinations system would be something new and incredible as you point as a possibility, I'm sure they would have hyped it a thousand times months ago... more or less as they have done with the Tome of Knowledge. Crafting seems more like a complement to the game.