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Aventurine S.A. is looking for a senior game logic programmer
Antikythera
Member Posts: 128
in Darkfall
Aventurine S.A. is looking for a senior game logic programmer for our highly anticipated MMORPG Darkfall Online. The position requires you to implement gameplay features and system features in Java.
wtf? They're coding game logic systems using Java? Oh my. LOL 
You think they're engine is Java powered too?
Comments
If they're releasing it in Java then it'll be a multi-port Release (Mac/*nix as well)... no reason to only use 1 OS (Windows) if you're doing it in Java.
Perhaps the scripting is in JavaScript?
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
This could be for certain parts of the game, such as a login screen, maps, chat system, etc. Also, presumably "gamelogic" is derived from Java, and could be far more efficient that standard fair Java apps that require the full blown Java engine. Java does not always = bloated, buggy and slow. (And definitly does not = JavaScript!)
[edit: doing searches on the devolopers, it does appear Ricki Sickenger, "Lead Tools and Game Logic Programmer", is tied to Java. "trying to retrieve data from a Long table in my Oracle 8.0.5 with jdbc 2.0 (classes111.zip)" and "update a BLOB column in my Oracle 8.0.5 databse, and am working with classes12_01.zip"
I hate to tell you this but probably 99% of the online games programed in the last 10 years have Java aspects to them. Mostly for server and database front ends/utilities but a lot even use Java for their logins and patchers as well. Every game company out there has hired Java programmers so this is nothing to get excited about.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
You mean all the shitty ones lol
But that isn't what it says. It says "gameplay features" which is game logic.
You don't code game logic systems using Java. It's slow as fuck compared to C++ and C..
Walk into Blizzard and say you're going to code their gameplay in Java. They'll laugh you out of the building.
In fact you don't build any game using java.. except shitty little browser based games and mobile phone games and puzzle games..
The Aventurine website was updated with that job opening and one more almost exactly one year ago now.
So either nobody has filled those two positions and they are still looking for candidates after one year of receiving applications.
Or one or both have been filled at some time over the last year but the developers have been to busy to update there own company website by removing them.
Two java based MMO’s I can think of are WurmOnline and Runescape, Judging entirely on the job description it does appear that Java could be a significant part of Darkfall also.
The other job opening is just as interesting to me, in my opinion it shows that until sometime after June 2007 they really where not anywhere near internally beta testing the client sufficiently let alone starting public beta.
Because apparently anytime before 2007 they did not even have anyone to head the QA department let alone where anywhere near seriously or adequately enough planning for an internal beta testing phase.
Do some research on the game first.
THe Java is for the in-game web browser and similair futures.
Overview:
Aventurine S.A. is looking for a senior game logic programmer for our highly anticipated MMORPG Darkfall Online.(www.darkfallonline.com)
The position requires you to implement gameplay features and system features in Java.
Responsibilities:
• Implement new gamelogic features both on Server and Client in our custom gamelogic framework.
• Test, debug and optimize new and existing features.
• Work closely with other Gamelogic programmers.
Requirements:
• Computer Science, or related degree.
• Excellent Java skills.
• Excellent Problem solving and debugging skills.
• Good knowledge of O.O. design.
• Understanding of server/client architectures.
• Excellent Team Working skills.
• Ability to work under pressure within a multidisciplinary team.
• Fluent in English, both written and oral.
Judging by the actual job description and its requirements I would say it obviously appears to involve alot more then just the implementation of a simple in-game web browser.
You mean all the shitty ones lol
But that isn't what it says. It says "gameplay features" which is game logic.
You don't code game logic systems using Java. It's slow as fuck compared to C++ and C..
Walk into Blizzard and say you're going to code their gameplay in Java. They'll laugh you out of the building.
In fact you don't build any game using java.. except shitty little browser based games and mobile phone games and puzzle games..
Accessing things like the Item and quest databases from within the game are gameplay features and I think you'll find that even WoW uses Java to do this.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
Shows what you know! This is clearly C#!!
(just kiddding
)
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
lol.....C# = Microsoft Java ripoff.
But you probably knew that already. 
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
heh, now if we can get enough programmer types in here, we might have found a discussion that can get just as ugly as any DF discussion. C# fans vs Java fans!
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Another possible reason why these two positions have remained listed continuously as open for nearly 1 year, is everyone who applied and has been accepted over the last year might of quit or have been fired after only a short time.
Or everyone who has applied over the last year who was actually qualified was not willing to meet the requirements for the wage they where offering.
So they might still be looking for these positions to be filled even after one year, And have been attempting to manage these tasks with whatever staff they allready have had available over the last year.
It appears the developers are either to incompetent or indolent to simply remove the positions from there company website after they where filled or no candidates have successfully filled the positions for various reasons after nearly a year.
Although I don’t think its very likely in my opinion these could actually not really even represent actual genuine job positions which offer any practical or feasible / realistic chance of ever being filled due to various reasons.
I’m not sure which explanation is more disagreeable.
The Java skill is just one of the things they ask for, so why would it be a such a big deal?
In theory an MMO could be done in Java. Still, Darkfall is using C++ like everyone else, if they are even legit. We don't even know that it exists...
Java is used on all platforms, it would make sense that Java is required. No red flags there. The ref flags for me are the fact that after 7 years they have yet to prove to any of us they even exist, after years of asking them to.
Tecmo Bowl.
Anybody stop to think that maybe they worded it wrong?
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
C# and Java have fans? Who knew!!
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
Okay, from now on every fanboi who proclaims "Darkfall is finished, just waiting for a publisher!!" gets slapped with a 2 day old rancid trout and directed to this thread.
And people still ignore the fact that they need Java programmer for the in-game webbrowser, out-of-game features such as mobile/web/game interaction... as always, the non-factor MMORPG.com vaporyelling troll saga continues... So when is the next local circle jerk? Who's the designated middleman?
I dunno about the whole Java thing. I never read any game programmer position from one of the big dev studios requiring Java before but whatever.
What I DO find strange though is the fact that if you write into this place asking about one of the jobs or whatever you NEVER EVER get a reply. Ever. I mean like N-E-V-E-R.. Did I mention never?
Isn't it a bit odd that a company supposedely hiring people can't write back to people asking about the positions? Ya I think so.
Seriously I'am starting to think this thing is some kind of front for some kind of criminal activities.
It's closing in on 4 weeks now since that Tasos dude promised a comprehensive gameplay video and Q&A's with the media.. Nothing yet.
I think at this point even the most die hard fanboys are starting to smell what the vapor monster is cooking.
I don’t know about criminal activities but like I said earlier it is possible that considering these positions have been listed for nearly 1 year since June last year these are not really legitimate positions that offer any real chance of ever realistically being filled by applicants at this stage ( this stage being 6 months from launch).
The developers have stated the game is feature complete, so we can presume that they no longer need this senior Java programmer because those tasks have been completed over the last year.
And the developers have stated the game is already in internal testing and will be starting public beta soon, so we can presume that they already found somebody to head the QA department last year and the QA phase of the internal beta has been completed over the last year.
What I think is most likely is that very few qualified international candidates have ever been willing to meet the requirements for various reasons so the developers have decided to make do with whatever staff they already had or have recruited more locally threw other means.
And due to ineptitude and laziness or just simply because they don’t care if they appear unprofessional no one has got round to updating the company website or to reply to anyone who’s still making inquiry’s about the jobs a year after they where first posted.
Then what does it mean when people wrote in at the very beginning when this page was put up and never got any replies? I remember reading at least one post last year from someone compalining that he went through the trouble of mailing his CV to them and never got any kind of reply.
But ya, I suppose at this point it would make no sense to be hiring considering they have publically said a release for 2008. But you and I both know that is complete bullshit and won't happen.. soooo..
A little bit of quick research about the time period surrounding when these job’s where posted last year in June.
As a point of reference at the beginning of the year Jan 17 2007 Tasos says in an update
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=30347
"The beta development milestone was met early in December. Since then we've had a fully functional and stable beta build up on remote servers, which is being patched regularly. At the moment we're using part of this system to show the game to prospective partners, distributors, publishers, technology providers, etc. Our motivation here is to provide the best quality assurance, distribution, and service for the game and its players, so we consider this to be a very important phase for Darkfall."
This “beta development milestone” from december 2006 in my opinion was the stand alone Tech demonstration that was used to show to prospective publishers, was used to create videos and screenshots and was played by Asp during his visit which he confirms in his article.
"We've also hired a few extra people to help in the final push, animators, worldbuilders, and sound engineers. There's a lot of work to be done in all these fields, and in applying the final polish on Darkfall."
This shows that they have hired new members of staff threw other means separate from there company website in the past so they might of recruited people for both the positions on there website from these same other means.
Now a status update from june 15 2007 a few days before they posted the two job posistions on the Aventurine website.
http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/3322-Darkfall-Developer-Journal-10-State-of-Development
"We're hiring a QA lead to formalize our QA process, we're looking for yet another Game Logic programmer, we've been outsourcing some secondary art tasks out, and we've also re-hired Nick, a very talented artist, who had taken a short break. We're also in the search for another good world-builder to help with cleaning up quests."
In my opinion based on this and the job description they wanted someone to "Head" there QA team to "formalize" in other words seriously and adequately start the process of developing there tech demo into a version ready for internal and then open beta.
"There's also some GUI work having to do with city building, and parties. We're also integrating with the game, the permission system for clans, the in-game boards, and the player journal, specifically the 'friends' and the 'holdings' functionalities. We're also working on the permission system, specifically for the clan vault. Clan boards are being integrated with the game, meaning that various in-game clan specifics work together with the clan boards."
In my opinion they are describing exactly what they wanted the game logic programmer with excellent Java skills for, all of these GUI functions mentioned will be in java format.
And the most recent "Beta soon" announcment was from a few weeks earlier from the 31st of May 2007
http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/3323-Darkfall-Developer-Journal-9-The-Beta-Question
"We've specified that our internal target date is this summer and we can't get more specific yet, but we will when we're ready to make an announcement."
It appears that they where very ambitious in thinking that after hiring someone to lead the QA process they would be ready for beta after only a few months time.
My opinion based on this information is that before December 2006 this game was not any ware near realisticaly releasing let alone public beta or even closed internal beta at anytime before, becuase only after 4 years of development under Aventurine did Darkfall reach Technical demonstration status.
Whether or not the year passed between June 2007 and today has been enough time to develop the tech demo under a new QA leader into a feature complete version that’s in internal beta status I cannot say.
An whether or not at the end of this year the 2 years since Darkfall reached tech demo status around December 2006 will be enough to develop the game into a feature complete version that’s ready for open beta and a successful launch I cannot say either.
Then I wonder why the official website looks like an amateur mess visually.. and the in-game art looks the same..
Nothing I've ever seen from Darkfall Online shows me they have any kind of professional talent at all on their team. Other than that 2D art painter guy that was or still is associated with it.
I mean seriously what the hell is this supposed to be? This is like circa 2001 stuff and this was / is a "newest" screenshot. I can pull up screenshots from AC2 2002 release that blow this away..
I personally have never had a problem with the graphics because there not a priority for me because I’m only really interested in game play and features.
But I think we can all agree at least that they have consistently improved the graphics over the years.
The problem that I have with the released screen shots is their entirely or almost all are encompassed by characters standing in terrain, or just plain terrain they don’t really directly show any of the major features or game play in my opinion.
Hopefully all those major features and game play are currently implemented but the developers for reasons know only to themselves have decided not to take any screen shots of it so far.
It could be they leave the positions up, because if the right person shows up (i.e. someone with mad skills and will work for free) they'll hire them, and not a specific position. It is more than a little fishy that they don't respond to inquires.
As for the Java issue, the forum trolls seem to be getting bored with saying "it doesn't exist" repeatedly, while continuing to watch for any and every sign of progress from Averturine...
Java is used mostly in shitty, little known games, like RuneScape and World of Warcraft. I know, Averturine shouldn't be so stupid as to follow in the footsteps of the two most popular MMORPGs Honestly, considering how poorly written the job ad is, it's kind of telling the only thing some of you pick on is that it's asking for Java. Honestly, I hope there's some new update for Darkfall soon, just so the stupid trolls have something real to flail!