You're essentially saying "If you want PlaneShift to be successful, then shut up about the misbehavior of its developers." I don't see the logic in that.
One of the main goals of effective requirements engineering is to minimize the amount of unnecessary communication between people as much as possible—including between users and implementors—and people like you are creating an awful lot of communication overhead. There are a few ways to do this and simply banning people like you is one way.
PS is more than an engineering project though. It's a community.
I still feel like you're misplacing blame. You're angry at people for complaining about other people abusing their positions of power. That's what some call "whistle-blower retaliation".
Believe it or not, this is not the only message thead I have read;
You are incessantly critical of Planeshift and those attempting to run/create it, basing your standard upon the standard of a commercial venture such as EQ or WoW.
I recognize the style of the baseless, vacuous arguments; you could do us all a favor by going back to such blog sites as the dailyKOS.
I blame people for their own actions. I don't know how that promotes incivility.
The game suffers because they aren't paid professionals. But that's just part of the equation. The developers make decisions about which features to add or remove.
I haven't said "Get more money! Do what you're doing, only better!" I'm not comparing PS to WoW or other commercial games.
I am critical of how the ps team / staff treat people, but I'm using common sense in judging them, not a "WoW model".
As far as saying it's all baseless... calling it baseless is baseless.
I blame people for their own actions. I don't know how that promotes incivility. The game suffers because they aren't paid professionals. But that's just part of the equation. The developers make decisions about which features to add or remove. I haven't said "Get more money! Do what you're doing, only better!" I'm not comparing PS to WoW or other commercial games. I am critical of how the ps team / staff treat people, but I'm using common sense in judging them, not a "WoW model". As far as saying it's all baseless... calling it baseless is baseless.
I don't see how you can say the game suffers. I play it. Other people play it. I've had zero problems playing it since I started. And I've not only played it on Windows, I've played it n OSX on an underpowered G3, and on a Linux machine *from a Windows machine* via XMing.
If you're not comparing PS to a "professional" effort such as WoW, you can't say that it's somehow "suffering". At most all you can say is that you are not happy with it, for whatever reason makes you, personally, unhappy.
How the PS team treats people.... based on my experience and the conversations I've had with other players, is little different than the treatment I have received from the paid support staffs of commercial ventures such as WoW and Everquest.
You are not using common sense, or you would not concede that it is not a commercial effort (you keep using the term "professional"), and still harp about how the developers (NOT customer service reps, not professional, paid, derriere smoochers) treat people... based on how you perceive YOU were treated
I said the game suffers because they aren't paid professionals. If they were paid professionals, then they'd have more time, more experience, and more resources. Instead, they're doing it for free in their spare time.
If you've had zero problems with it, congrats.
If you want to discuss my opinions with me, you've got to be specific about what you're talking about, or else your just making generalizations. Anything to do with the community, and anything to do with the behavior of the developement team, these are obviously things not related to funding etc.
I've seen a lot of stuff happen. My opinions aren't based on just my own experiences. If you've really read through my posts, you should already know this.
I blame people for their own actions. I don't know how that promotes incivility.
Your comments promote incivility because they are personally targeted and they do nothing but bring stress to others. Think about it. Let's say you ran some MUD in your free time that you made absolutely nothing off of, it had a player base, and there was one player who was always persistently rude to you. So you indefban him and it's not good enough; he ban avoids using open proxies just to harass you more and he trolls The Mud Connector forums saying how much of an ass you are in running the game. Eventually you would get stressed out enough that you would shut your MUD down for good. I used to be a graphical MUD developer myself and I've seen all of this happen many times. This is how you slay a MUD.
I have a different story. Certain developers and Game Masters for an inde game treat their players maliciously or unfairly on a regular basis. Some players begin to speak out. Instead of something positive being done, the players are punished for complaining. Other developers and game masters try to change things from the inside and are punished as well. The game eventually develops a reputation for having a lousy attitude towards players. This is how you slay a MUD.
Huh? And other people are posting to this forum saying they've had similar experiences. So not only do people agree with me, but they're letting their voices be heard here right in front of you.
I said the game suffers because they aren't paid professionals. If they were paid professionals, then they'd have more time, more experience, and more resources. Instead, they're doing it for free in their spare time. If you've had zero problems with it, congrats. If you want to discuss my opinions with me, you've got to be specific about what you're talking about, or else your just making generalizations. Anything to do with the community, and anything to do with the behavior of the developement team, these are obviously things not related to funding etc. I've seen a lot of stuff happen. My opinions aren't based on just my own experiences. If you've really read through my posts, you should already know this.
I know what you said. Since my reply appears to be beyond your ken, let me put it in simpler words:
You... Are... Wrong...
As for making generalizations, I had no idea that you were the only one allowed to do that.
Apparently many of your opinions are based upon the unverified accounts related by other people in this forum.
So, even more clever than forming your own opinion based upon your own suppositions from your experiences, now you admit to forming your own opinions based upon the suppositons from other's alleged experiences.
Apparently Hiraghm, you were lying when you said you read my posts. My opinions come from extended observation and participation in ps. Others have shared their experiences with me, but I have many experiences of my own.
Please tell me why I should respond to you when you lie about reading my posts and your arguments are merely personal attacks.
Apparently Hiraghm, you were lying when you said you read my posts. My opinions come from extended observation and participation in ps. Others have shared their experiences with me, but I have many experiences of my own. Please tell me why I should respond to you when you lie about reading my posts and your arguments are merely personal attacks.
Gee, you're a meanie! you called me a liar! Obviously you're not a "professional"! waaah.
You shouldn't respond to me, or anyone else. I kind of think that's what other people are trying to get across to you.
Gee, you don't like remarks you consider personal attacks? Pot, meet Kettle.
MY opinions are formed from over a decade of MMO game experience. You have repeatly admitted that you have little experience outside of what you *claim* your experience has been in PS. As such, your opinion should hold little weight. But you are indeed tireless in your crusade to crucify PS and those members of its development staff who just don't have the patience to put up with your incessant assault.
pstruth, or datruth, or whatever you are, i have a few questions for you?
why? why must you persistantly demean PS like this? From what i have bean told and read, it seams to be a personal quest of yours to destroy the hard work of people. Why? Can you not fall asleep at night if you have not burned the dreams of people to the ground and thrown all their hard work into oblivion?
I realize this game and perhaps its personel has its flaws, but i dare you to find me one game, person, insect, hell, BLADE OF GRASS that doesn't have its flaws.
I also realize this is sort of a personal attack but what you are spuing upon this forum is nothing different. The difference being that i am attacking one person and you are attacking all the people behind PS.
So please, stop this inane mockery you call a thought process. You are NOT a messiah that will free the slaves tormented by the terrible terrible gms of PS (from my experience, they are very kind people). If someone is not satisfied with this game, let them walk away, that is his problem, not yours.
Apparently Hiraghm, you were lying when you said you read my posts. My opinions come from extended observation and participation in ps. Others have shared their experiences with me, but I have many experiences of my own. Please tell me why I should respond to you when you lie about reading my posts and your arguments are merely personal attacks.
Gee, you're a meanie! you called me a liar! Obviously you're not a "professional"! waaah.
You shouldn't respond to me, or anyone else. I kind of think that's what other people are trying to get across to you.
Gee, you don't like remarks you consider personal attacks? Pot, meet Kettle.
MY opinions are formed from over a decade of MMO game experience. You have repeatly admitted that you have little experience outside of what you *claim* your experience has been in PS. As such, your opinion should hold little weight. But you are indeed tireless in your crusade to crucify PS and those members of its development staff who just don't have the patience to put up with your incessant assault.
Uhm... PSTruth, what experience? A developer has said that you've been banned for a fairly long while due to several trolling incidents afaik. I would really like your meaning here cleared up. (Heh, muddy truth!)
Also, I'd also like to understand how you think that everyone is being so mean to you? Seems to me that they're speaking as much the truth here as you are. Putting the word truth in your nick doesn't make you anything close to infallible.
However, as far as the original topic goes, the availibility of spoilers on the German site is because they do not share the same philosophy that spoilers are a no-no. It's that simple. They use tags and such, so it's not like anyone's going to have pounds upon pounds of spoilers thrusted upon them because they can read German and happen to visit the site.
Apparently Hiraghm, you were lying when you said you read my posts. My opinions come from extended observation and participation in ps. Others have shared their experiences with me, but I have many experiences of my own. Please tell me why I should respond to you when you lie about reading my posts and your arguments are merely personal attacks.
why are you so quick to label him a liar? you claim to still be playing PS but that doesn't match up with what others have said. I have read some of your posts and what Hiraghm has said doesn't seem to be too far off mark.
I don't want to destroy the game. I'm just unhappy with way things happen in the community and I think things can improve.
I don't understand how being critical of the game can destroy it when it's supposed to be a community effort and we're supposed to be testers.
I'm not saying everyone is being mean to me, because that simply isn't true.
I do think there are certain personality types that go around defending the game by bullying anyone who speaks ill of it, but that's not the same thing.
The German website doesn't share the philosophy of the developers. But you could say the same thing for anyone who breaks the rules. Anyone who breaks the rules the developers make probably has a different philosophy from the developers, and that's why they're breaking the rules.
The rule about spoilers wasn't to prevent people from accidentally seeing spoilers. The developers don't want people to be able to find spoilers, period, unless they belong to a guild or have friends who are in the know.
I'm not saying I agree with it or disagree with. Really I just don't care, and all I'm doing is trying to help other people understand what the fighting is about.
I never called Hiraghm a liar. I just said he was lying. He said something he knew wasn't true.
I don't want to destroy the game. I'm just unhappy with way things happen in the community and I think things can improve. I don't understand how being critical of the game can destroy it when it's supposed to be a community effort and we're supposed to be testers. I'm not saying everyone is being mean to me, because that simply isn't true. I do think there are certain personality types that go around defending the game by bullying anyone who speaks ill of it, but that's not the same thing. The German website doesn't share the philosophy of the developers. But you could say the same thing for anyone who breaks the rules. Anyone who breaks the rules the developers make probably has a different philosophy from the developers, and that's why they're breaking the rules. The rule about spoilers wasn't to prevent people from accidentally seeing spoilers. The developers don't want people to be able to find spoilers, period, unless they belong to a guild or have friends who are in the know. I'm not saying I agree with it or disagree with. Really I just don't care, and all I'm doing is trying to help other people understand what the fighting is about. I never called Hiraghm a liar. I just said he was lying. He said something he knew wasn't true.
I already told you how your criticism can destroy the game. Destroy the morale of the players. Destroy the morale of the staff. That will destroy the game.
Thanks for telling us what the writers of the rules meant when they wrote the rules. Clairvoyance is such a special gift.
If you really don't care about the spoiler rule, drop it. Don't argue about things you don't care about. Don't you know there's an energy crisis?
When you tell someone he is lying... you are calling him a liar.
I hope that last example reveals to everyone here what you are about, how you think, and why they shouldn't use your opinion to judge Planeshift.
"But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument,'" Alice objected.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean do many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master--that's all."
Comments
Talad promotes uncivil behavior.
PS is more than an engineering project though. It's a community.
I still feel like you're misplacing blame. You're angry at people for complaining about other people abusing their positions of power. That's what some call "whistle-blower retaliation".
Talad promotes uncivil behavior.
PoSTruth,
Believe it or not, this is not the only message thead I have read;
You are incessantly critical of Planeshift and those attempting to run/create it, basing your standard upon the standard of a commercial venture such as EQ or WoW.
I recognize the style of the baseless, vacuous arguments; you could do us all a favor by going back to such blog sites as the dailyKOS.
I blame people for their own actions. I don't know how that promotes incivility.
The game suffers because they aren't paid professionals. But that's just part of the equation. The developers make decisions about which features to add or remove.
I haven't said "Get more money! Do what you're doing, only better!" I'm not comparing PS to WoW or other commercial games.
I am critical of how the ps team / staff treat people, but I'm using common sense in judging them, not a "WoW model".
As far as saying it's all baseless... calling it baseless is baseless.
I don't see how you can say the game suffers. I play it. Other people play it. I've had zero problems playing it since I started. And I've not only played it on Windows, I've played it n OSX on an underpowered G3, and on a Linux machine *from a Windows machine* via XMing.
If you're not comparing PS to a "professional" effort such as WoW, you can't say that it's somehow "suffering". At most all you can say is that you are not happy with it, for whatever reason makes you, personally, unhappy.
How the PS team treats people.... based on my experience and the conversations I've had with other players, is little different than the treatment I have received from the paid support staffs of commercial ventures such as WoW and Everquest.
You are not using common sense, or you would not concede that it is not a commercial effort (you keep using the term "professional"), and still harp about how the developers (NOT customer service reps, not professional, paid, derriere smoochers) treat people... based on how you perceive YOU were treated
I said the game suffers because they aren't paid professionals. If they were paid professionals, then they'd have more time, more experience, and more resources. Instead, they're doing it for free in their spare time.
If you've had zero problems with it, congrats.
If you want to discuss my opinions with me, you've got to be specific about what you're talking about, or else your just making generalizations. Anything to do with the community, and anything to do with the behavior of the developement team, these are obviously things not related to funding etc.
I've seen a lot of stuff happen. My opinions aren't based on just my own experiences. If you've really read through my posts, you should already know this.
Talad promotes uncivil behavior.
I have a different story. Certain developers and Game Masters for an inde game treat their players maliciously or unfairly on a regular basis. Some players begin to speak out. Instead of something positive being done, the players are punished for complaining. Other developers and game masters try to change things from the inside and are punished as well. The game eventually develops a reputation for having a lousy attitude towards players. This is how you slay a MUD.
Talad promotes uncivil behavior.
Huh? And other people are posting to this forum saying they've had similar experiences. So not only do people agree with me, but they're letting their voices be heard here right in front of you.
Talad promotes uncivil behavior.
I know what you said. Since my reply appears to be beyond your ken, let me put it in simpler words:
You... Are... Wrong...
As for making generalizations, I had no idea that you were the only one allowed to do that.
Apparently many of your opinions are based upon the unverified accounts related by other people in this forum.
So, even more clever than forming your own opinion based upon your own suppositions from your experiences, now you admit to forming your own opinions based upon the suppositons from other's alleged experiences.
Too smart for me.
Apparently Hiraghm, you were lying when you said you read my posts. My opinions come from extended observation and participation in ps. Others have shared their experiences with me, but I have many experiences of my own.
Please tell me why I should respond to you when you lie about reading my posts and your arguments are merely personal attacks.
Talad promotes uncivil behavior.
Gee, you're a meanie! you called me a liar! Obviously you're not a "professional"! waaah.
You shouldn't respond to me, or anyone else. I kind of think that's what other people are trying to get across to you.
Gee, you don't like remarks you consider personal attacks? Pot, meet Kettle.
MY opinions are formed from over a decade of MMO game experience. You have repeatly admitted that you have little experience outside of what you *claim* your experience has been in PS. As such, your opinion should hold little weight. But you are indeed tireless in your crusade to crucify PS and those members of its development staff who just don't have the patience to put up with your incessant assault.
pstruth, or datruth, or whatever you are, i have a few questions for you?
why? why must you persistantly demean PS like this? From what i have bean told and read, it seams to be a personal quest of yours to destroy the hard work of people. Why? Can you not fall asleep at night if you have not burned the dreams of people to the ground and thrown all their hard work into oblivion?
I realize this game and perhaps its personel has its flaws, but i dare you to find me one game, person, insect, hell, BLADE OF GRASS that doesn't have its flaws.
I also realize this is sort of a personal attack but what you are spuing upon this forum is nothing different. The difference being that i am attacking one person and you are attacking all the people behind PS.
So please, stop this inane mockery you call a thought process. You are NOT a messiah that will free the slaves tormented by the terrible terrible gms of PS (from my experience, they are very kind people). If someone is not satisfied with this game, let them walk away, that is his problem, not yours.
Gee, you're a meanie! you called me a liar! Obviously you're not a "professional"! waaah.
You shouldn't respond to me, or anyone else. I kind of think that's what other people are trying to get across to you.
Gee, you don't like remarks you consider personal attacks? Pot, meet Kettle.
MY opinions are formed from over a decade of MMO game experience. You have repeatly admitted that you have little experience outside of what you *claim* your experience has been in PS. As such, your opinion should hold little weight. But you are indeed tireless in your crusade to crucify PS and those members of its development staff who just don't have the patience to put up with your incessant assault.
Uhm... PSTruth, what experience? A developer has said that you've been banned for a fairly long while due to several trolling incidents afaik. I would really like your meaning here cleared up. (Heh, muddy truth!)
Also, I'd also like to understand how you think that everyone is being so mean to you? Seems to me that they're speaking as much the truth here as you are. Putting the word truth in your nick doesn't make you anything close to infallible.
However, as far as the original topic goes, the availibility of spoilers on the German site is because they do not share the same philosophy that spoilers are a no-no. It's that simple. They use tags and such, so it's not like anyone's going to have pounds upon pounds of spoilers thrusted upon them because they can read German and happen to visit the site.
why are you so quick to label him a liar? you claim to still be playing PS but that doesn't match up with what others have said. I have read some of your posts and what Hiraghm has said doesn't seem to be too far off mark.
I don't want to destroy the game. I'm just unhappy with way things happen in the community and I think things can improve.
I don't understand how being critical of the game can destroy it when it's supposed to be a community effort and we're supposed to be testers.
I'm not saying everyone is being mean to me, because that simply isn't true.
I do think there are certain personality types that go around defending the game by bullying anyone who speaks ill of it, but that's not the same thing.
The German website doesn't share the philosophy of the developers. But you could say the same thing for anyone who breaks the rules. Anyone who breaks the rules the developers make probably has a different philosophy from the developers, and that's why they're breaking the rules.
The rule about spoilers wasn't to prevent people from accidentally seeing spoilers. The developers don't want people to be able to find spoilers, period, unless they belong to a guild or have friends who are in the know.
I'm not saying I agree with it or disagree with. Really I just don't care, and all I'm doing is trying to help other people understand what the fighting is about.
I never called Hiraghm a liar. I just said he was lying. He said something he knew wasn't true.
I already told you how your criticism can destroy the game. Destroy the morale of the players. Destroy the morale of the staff. That will destroy the game.
Thanks for telling us what the writers of the rules meant when they wrote the rules. Clairvoyance is such a special gift.
If you really don't care about the spoiler rule, drop it. Don't argue about things you don't care about. Don't you know there's an energy crisis?
When you tell someone he is lying... you are calling him a liar.
I hope that last example reveals to everyone here what you are about, how you think, and why they shouldn't use your opinion to judge Planeshift.
"But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument,'" Alice objected.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean do many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master--that's all."
... you claim to still be playing PS but that doesn't match up with what others have said.(...)
It really isn't hard to figure out who it is. Read the other threads here, you'll get enough hints to put the picture together.
"When you tell someone he is lying... you are calling him a liar."
I would never stoop down to the level of personal attacks.
But you did and do so I'm a little confused why you say you never would. Please read your own posts. You have personally attacked numerous times.
But you did and do so I'm a little confused why you say you never would. Please read your own posts. You have personally attacked numerous times.
That's awful. What did numerous times ever do to me?