The OP is a troll because he has mostly only responded to "attacks". He has not really responded to some of the well thought out posts about why so many people hate / dislike SOE. He has "selectively" chosen to skip some of the great points mentioned in this thread. He is also being overly picky with the word "hate". He is using it literally and non-literally whenever it suits him best and applying broad generalizations to everyone who has issues with SOE. This makes him a troll looking to stir up drama. Nothing to see here. BTW, SOE sucks.
I pick out the posts that seem in most need of a response.
Check anything else I have ever posted about and tell me which threads are trolling. I respond to attacks as any normal person would. As questioned to me a few posts above your original post:
If someone repeatedly punched you in the face are you going to let them?
Attack the tread without having the intent to genuinely debate an issue and I will defend my writing.
Debate does not equal Trolling... maybe you should learn the difference... but at least you don't say you hate so you can't be all bad.
If a man walks up to me and smashes me in the face with a hammer. I'd be pretty upset, now, if I just let him keep doing this to me, I'd be an idiot. To relate this back to SWG, SOE took something that brought a lot of people happiness and joy, it wasn't perfect, but a lot of us were happy. They then changed that thing into something horrid, and it pissed all of us off. For an analogy, see the post about beer in this thread. We know dislike, hate, loathe, etc. SOE for what they did. Your entire problem with people disliking SOE seems to come from their use of the word "hate". You seem to accord some special significance to the word, which is your right, but that doesn't mean that your definition is the one we're all going with, and I'd be willing to bet most people go with something like "intense dislike". You admonish me for taking some supposed ethical high ground, while at the same time telling "SOE Haters" their feelings are wrong simply because you don't agree with their word choice based on your own definition of the word.
Again, to reiterate, I have been burned by almost every SOE game released at one point or another (besides original EQ and Vanguard - however SOE would have burned me if I bought VG at release).
First, your analogies don't truly relate. Did SOE walk up to you on the street, throw the SWG box at your face and make you play month after month when you really didn't want to? A hammer in the face repeatedly does not relate to SOE changing a game...
I only wanted to know if people truly hate by definition of the word (not my definition of hate), or if people intensely dislike and use hate because it's easier to type. I believe I have my answer.
The point of the thread that so many people missed is that I wanted to know if people can hate a company. Contrary to what you've assumed about me, I have no problem with anger or dislike towards SOE. I have a problem with the use of the word hate when people should be using other words that correctly reflect their feelings. I am not forcing my definition on anyone I only find it an odd (and frankly scary trend) to see so many people spouting about hate.
Blizzard banned me from WoW once... I don't hate them.
NCSoft cancelled Auto Assualt that I was subscribed to and enjoying... I don't hate them.
However, I do dislike both companies.
And I'll leave it at that. People may think I am trolling and that is fine for them to believe so. I am sorry if I have strong attachments to some words however I am sure I can name at least an entire race of humans that can be sensitive to certain words as well. I'd love to see the word HATE as a word seldom used in the future, much like so many commonly used words from the 50's are now.
The OP is a troll because he has mostly only responded to "attacks". He has not really responded to some of the well thought out posts about why so many people hate / dislike SOE. He has "selectively" chosen to skip some of the great points mentioned in this thread. He is also being overly picky with the word "hate". He is using it literally and non-literally whenever it suits him best and applying broad generalizations to everyone who has issues with SOE. This makes him a troll looking to stir up drama. Nothing to see here. BTW, SOE sucks.
I pick out the posts that seem in most need of a response.
Check anything else I have ever posted about and tell me which threads are trolling. I respond to attacks as any normal person would. As questioned to me a few posts above your original post:
If someone repeatedly punched you in the face are you going to let them?
Attack the tread without having the intent to genuinely debate an issue and I will defend my writing.
Debate does not equal Trolling... maybe you should learn the difference... but at least you don't say you hate so you can't be all bad.
instead of replying to attacks, reply to posts that bring up good points. All your doing is feeding trolls and encouraging them to flame you more.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Sure some people take it to far. On both sides. So what? You think making a post insulting everyone who thinks SOE should be held accountable for their decisions is going to help in some way? The OP is trolling. Sure some people take hating SOE to far, but the other side of that is anytime someone points out that SOE has a poor history and thinking that history is going to change is crazy the SOE supporters see that as an attack. It's a valid observation when talking about anything that SOE is involved with. How can you have a meaningful dicussion about anything if you refuse to ackknowledge the past.
Boy, some people just don't understand no matter how many times I try and explain it...
Asking a question and defending myself is not "trolling"... there are no stupid questions, only stupid people. You are showing your colors just fine.
This thread has grown longer than I imagined it would from a question that has been bothering me for some time. I do too much during the day to respond to every comment (good or bad) in this thread. If you are offended because I have not responded to one of yours you can now rest easy.
AGAIN, let me say... people can dislike SOE... I just don't like the use of the word hate and the alarming increase of its use in modern society.
So what about those of us who know exactly where the hate comes from , yet feel some take it to far ? It's one thing to hate on SOE ,but as shown in this thread , some can't leave it at that . Some like to attack anyone who may feel differently or disagree with them , Which has been the case Since Nov. 05 , And that's exactly where threads like these come from .
For every minute You are angry , You lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That is an EXCELLENT Emerson quote. I am definately going to remember that... thank you.
The OP is a troll and clearly wasn't subject to the crap and illegal methods SOE used in SWG. Not only was it unethical, it was illegal. They used subscription money for 8 months and sold an expansion that days later would be WORTHLESS to code and develop a new game behind the backs of the subscribing players... SOE is as low as it gets in this industry. You're just a troll wanting a reaction.
Hate is cheap. So I hate lots of things and people.
When SoE decided to set the emerging MMOFPS genre back 5 years or more by releasing PlanetSide and willfully neglecting it to cause it's undeserved failure... I decided I hate SoE.
Hate is cheap. So I hate lots of things and people. When SoE decided to set the emerging MMOFPS genre back 5 years or more by releasing PlanetSide and willfully neglecting it to cause it's undeserved failure... I decided I hate SoE.
FINALLY! Something I understand (however I still don't like the word hate). I can see how setting a genre back 5 years could be cause for serious dislike/distrust... It's kind of how I feel about WoW.
Bronks is still ignoring the intelligable posts that make good points. I'm still waiting for a decent reply, all i keep hearing is the same thing over and over.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Bronks is still ignoring the intelligable posts that make good points. I'm still waiting for a decent reply, all i keep hearing is the same thing over and over.
When you feel the need to post a disclaimer that you don't work for the company you're about to give a virtual handjob to, you're not likely very big on wanting to debate a topic. This thread wasn't started to foster discussion, it was a loveletter.
<Disclaimer> I am not a Sony employee, I am not related to anyone at Sony and I do not own shares with Sony.
I am truly entertained every time I read a thread where someone hates everything Sony stands for. Whether a player can never forgive Sony for what happened to SWG, or a player cannot forget what Smedley has to say about issue X, players that dislike Sony REALLY dislike Sony.
Tell me why.
Please enlighten me as to what Sony did to you personally to make you hate them. Did Sony make you so addicted to Everquest back in the day that you lost your job or your spouse? (Because I'd understand that) Did your Sony PS3 start a fire and burn your uninsured house down? (Because I'd understand that) Were you a doctor in SWG who sold buffs for credits that you sold for real world money so you could pay back the mafia when the NGE came about and the mafia broke both your legs as a result? (Because again, I would understand that)
I don't understand how someone can HATE a company. Lets think about this for a second...
Hate is a strong word. I hate the bastard that poisoned my dog with anti-freeze when I was a kid. I hate the asshole that was drinking and driving and hit my kid brother while he was biking home (he's fine now). I hate the people that believe they are better than someone else because of background, race, color. etc.
I don't however, hate my former employer that fired me after my wife gave birth to our second child. I turned my life around and started a successful business that gives me tons of free time so being fired was about the best thing to happen to me. I don't hate Sony for ruining SWG... it's probably because I unplugged from the game that I met my wife in the first place. I don't hate Sony for anything they have done.
They made decisions just like you and I make every single day. The only thing is, their decisions affect a whole lot more people than my (or your) decision on what to make for supper. Even their large-scale decision to change SWG (for example)... how could this have possibly negatively affected your lives? I would understand if you were mad because the CU/NGE caused countless devs and support staff to loose their jobs, but that is not what I read in the "Hate SOE" posts. You hate-filled players have so much energy available to you that you can afford to spare some on hating a game company? SERIOUSLY?!? Do you go to bed hating SOE and wake up hating SOE and dreaming about destroying SOE in-between? There is nothing better going on in your life that you can focus some of that energy towards? How about getting a girlfriend or buying a pet or having kids? There must be something that your powers of negativity can be used towards to increase your personal joy.
If not, I truly feel sorry for you. Keep hating a company. I'll keep enjoying my Vanguard and EQ2... Maybe you can get some of the hatred out by discussing here. I would really love to know what Sony did to affect your life in such a way that you have to hate a company and everything they will do in the future.
if you went to a restaurant and three rats ran by you while you were eating, would you not say anything to anyone? would you not mention that to your friends? possibly the health authorities? if your answer is "no, i would say nothing to anyone"; then just keep on trucking, your post is nothing but a weaksauced troll.
some of us have actually reported SOE to the BBB for their *forgetting* to cancel subs. no reason anyone should ever know about that eh?
if a gaming company produces a horrid game, there's no reason a gamer shouldn't tell another gamer, is there? if a gaming company repeatedly produces horrid games, or makes real low quality games, there's no reason anyone should ever form a negative opinion about them, is there?
nope, nothing to see there, i'm sure there's a lot of people still loving soe games to death.
out of curiousity, if soe is such hotness, how many of their games have more subs than eve? ccp was forced to admit to cheating commited by their employees, and i'm willing to bet they still have more subs than most of soe's games. or does soe just lump everything together on the station pass so that no one has any idea how low each game's sub actually is? the fact that eve online is doing as well as it is, AFTER proven corruption, and even people that hate that the corruption existed -- still play eve... that really does say something about how soe has (mis)treated a large group of players.
truth. it's not just for breakfast any more.
The haters seem to be missing the point...
On an emotional level, do you really HATE a company? Consider the ramifications of the word hate and tell me honestly. I understand what Sony has done. I have lived and played through what sony has done since everquest in 1999 up to present. Yes, I too was angry for buying the expansion. Yes I was upset and cancelled with the CU/NGE fiasco.
I can respect everyone's feelings on the issue. I just think these SOE haters are throwing around a word like HATE too casually. It is a terrible word and in my line of work hate is a word uglier and more vulgar than cursing...
I suppose I am more sensitive to the word but regardless of that HATE is a terrible word and conjures terrible images for me. I suppose I can start avoiding Hate threads. I only started this thread to see if people understand the word hate or if they are just using it incorrectly.
I think it's the latter which gives me some relief.
Nice, so anyone who disagrees with you is a 'hater'? For someone claiming to make a logical article and not 'sling mud' you sure are doing a good job of labeling people in a derogatory way. Hatred toward a company does not define people as haters, thats a gross stereotype.
Also it is interesting how you change the subject quickly. When someone gives you a practical real world metaphor of why people would continue to object to Sony Online Entertainment, it comes back to your semantic definition of hate.
There is nothing wrong with warning new players against a horrible company. It's how the market weeds out inferior companies. Poor customer service? Word gets around.
i think what we are seeing is the old MMO's (and their companies) are dying out.
as with all industries only the ones who adapt end up surviving innovations and changes in the industry. SOE has not really grasped change all that well.
EQ2 and Vanguard are so similar its just stupid to think they own both
planetside and EQ are so old it seems silly to even keep them going (i fully support those who still have fun in these games, your having a better time than i am )
SOE's way of doing things in the MMO industry is quite old (and stale) compared to how some companies operate.
i think SOE is going to continue to struggle over the next few years until it either changes (dramatically) or it withers away.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds -Solid non level based game -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Personally, I have been playing Sony games online since EQ in 99. Never had a problem with them.
I actually agree. Never had a problem. Also I went back to EQ a few different times and different stages of the game and started all over and had a blast each time. It just got better for me, unlike how many say the game was ruined.
As far as SWG, I kind of knew bad things were coming before NGE. I can't find it now, but a while back I read an interview with Lucas about how he didn't agree with the vision of SWG. This was my hint to bail because Lucas has done stuff before like with novels if they didn't comform to his vision. Next thing I know, SWG is changed and crap, and SOE gets the blame. Hey, they probably are to blame, but I got out before it happened for a reason not pointing to SOE. Could be luck, could be coincidence, but I also remember how Lucas is with his stuff and he always has a clause to have a say in whatever is going on.
Oh, they did have a crappy release of EQ2, but I went back to it and had a lot of fun later on. (still like EQ better than EQ2 though)
Nice, so anyone who disagrees with you is a 'hater'? For someone claiming to make a logical article and not 'sling mud' you sure are doing a good job of labeling people in a derogatory way. Hatred toward a company does not define people as haters, thats a gross stereotype. Also it is interesting how you change the subject quickly. When someone gives you a practical real world metaphor of why people would continue to object to Sony Online Entertainment, it comes back to your semantic definition of hate. There is nothing wrong with warning new players against a horrible company. It's how the market weeds out inferior companies. Poor customer service? Word gets around.
I agree... nothing wrong with warning people at all. I used to warn people that Horizons was a wonderful game if you can find someone to play with. I still warn people that Blizzard is the largest wolf in sheep's clothing in the entire business world.
Incidentally, anyone complaining about customer service has never tried to cancel a Warcraft subscription during the first 3 months of original release or BC release... at that time, you couldn't even log into your account online. You had to call Blizzard's customer service department long distance to cancel. You also were not told about this until you tried to cancel online. Is that much different than what Sony did?
I also believe a hammer in the face is not a practical real world metaphor and does not relate to what SOE did to players. I also believe if people can spend so much energy 'hating' a company then they have a whole lot more hating energy to go around.
I can appreciate graphitti although it is illegal... I can appreciate a ranting post... I just can't give credence to posts that spout hate propaganda.
Have you ever noticed how the 'haters' hijack threads? Check the AOC forums or any SOE forum and read. I find haters small individuals that are probably griefers in-game because they are griefing others out of game by hijacking fanboy threads with their hate-filled nonsense.
As far as SWG, I kind of knew bad things were coming before NGE. I can't find it now, but a while back I read an interview with Lucas about how he didn't agree with the vision of SWG. This was my hint to bail because Lucas has done stuff before like with novels if they didn't comform to his vision. Next thing I know, SWG is changed and crap, and SOE gets the blame. Hey, they probably are to blame, but I got out before it happened for a reason not pointing to SOE. Could be luck, could be coincidence, but I also remember how Lucas is with his stuff and he always has a clause to have a say in whatever is going on.
I knew something was wrong with SWG pre-CU when you could grab a set of doc buffs and go slay krayt dragons or nightsister elders solo... That's where I knew the game went wrong. Some content should never be solo content and SOE changed that to the extreme.
Do I miss soloing nightsister elders? Yes... but only because I miss SWG pre-cu. I think it would have been easy to downgrade the buff resources and make wearker versions of buffs but what does it matter now?
<Disclaimer> I am not a Sony employee, I am not related to anyone at Sony and I do not own shares with Sony.
I am truly entertained every time I read a thread where someone hates everything Sony stands for. Whether a player can never forgive Sony for what happened to SWG, or a player cannot forget what Smedley has to say about issue X, players that dislike Sony REALLY dislike Sony.
Tell me why.
Please enlighten me as to what Sony did to you personally to make you hate them. Did Sony make you so addicted to Everquest back in the day that you lost your job or your spouse? (Because I'd understand that) Did your Sony PS3 start a fire and burn your uninsured house down? (Because I'd understand that) Were you a doctor in SWG who sold buffs for credits that you sold for real world money so you could pay back the mafia when the NGE came about and the mafia broke both your legs as a result? (Because again, I would understand that)
I don't understand how someone can HATE a company. Lets think about this for a second...
Hate is a strong word. I hate the bastard that poisoned my dog with anti-freeze when I was a kid. I hate the asshole that was drinking and driving and hit my kid brother while he was biking home (he's fine now). I hate the people that believe they are better than someone else because of background, race, color. etc.
I don't however, hate my former employer that fired me after my wife gave birth to our second child. I turned my life around and started a successful business that gives me tons of free time so being fired was about the best thing to happen to me. I don't hate Sony for ruining SWG... it's probably because I unplugged from the game that I met my wife in the first place. I don't hate Sony for anything they have done.
They made decisions just like you and I make every single day. The only thing is, their decisions affect a whole lot more people than my (or your) decision on what to make for supper. Even their large-scale decision to change SWG (for example)... how could this have possibly negatively affected your lives? I would understand if you were mad because the CU/NGE caused countless devs and support staff to loose their jobs, but that is not what I read in the "Hate SOE" posts. You hate-filled players have so much energy available to you that you can afford to spare some on hating a game company? SERIOUSLY?!? Do you go to bed hating SOE and wake up hating SOE and dreaming about destroying SOE in-between? There is nothing better going on in your life that you can focus some of that energy towards? How about getting a girlfriend or buying a pet or having kids? There must be something that your powers of negativity can be used towards to increase your personal joy.
If not, I truly feel sorry for you. Keep hating a company. I'll keep enjoying my Vanguard and EQ2... Maybe you can get some of the hatred out by discussing here. I would really love to know what Sony did to affect your life in such a way that you have to hate a company and everything they will do in the future.
You simply do not get it. You proudly say you will keep playing eq2 and vanguard. You were not a pre-nge swg vet. What if one day your characters in EQ2 were simply removed from the game? What if your nearly 3 years of work and trust you put into the company had been ripped away? It is that simple. Your post has a tone of a holyer then though attitude. I am not a SOE hater. I just recently cancelled eq2 after 4 years and I was a dedicted SWG player who all 3 mains were made useless after almost 3 years of work yet I still played EQ2. I do not hate SOE but I do understand why people do. SOE affected a lot of people with SWG and you should support them not put them down. You ask what makes so many haters. I ask you what makes you have so little compassion for those who were truely hurt by SOE by nge. What makes your post so thoughtless and ignorant of what SOE did to many players. You simply do not get it. The hate for SOE by many is justified.
Sony and SOE deserve far more hate than they are currently receiving. Both were the best in their area of business for a number of years, but due to mismanagement and arrogance they became the worst in their industries.
Frankly for many reasons, SOE is all that is wrong in the MMO business.
But do you really feel that they made this changes in the hope of destroying thier image? do you really think they wanted to ruin thier own games? because if they did then yes hate is deserved, but if it is simply that they made bad decisions then i have to agree that hate is unjustified...sorry but i have made bad decisions in my life to, some affected just me while others effected the people around me....but in no way did i ever mean it hurt anyone and i dont think i am evil due to making the wrong decisions. then again maybe it's contentment of life that lets hatred slip away from me.
Hey take up football it's great for hate release. or do as i and take your son to play for his local team and offer them support...i have to admit since i did quality of life seems to be better and hatred just seems pointless to me these days!
I dont hate SOE but I sure as hell dont trust them either.
I will still pay money to them if they have a preoduct that warrants it they just dont have that product anymore.
As for Sony themselves with the exception of PS3 I wont buy any of their products anyway because they are overpriced crap you can get the same tech the same specs for more than half the price of their garbage.
Only reason i bought a PS3 is because Pro Evo doesnt feel right not being on a PS
Here is what SoE (not Sony) did to make me have such hate towards them and any product they will ever produce. Yes, I assure you it is hate.
I will keep this simple and to the point. I payed and played a game for a couple years. I payed and played this game becuase I liked it at the time. In all my 14 years of MMO gaming or any gaming for that matter, I have never seen a company take the core mechanics of a game and just totally redo them. This made the game totally different and that is not what I payed to play. I also felt that my investment of time was all flushed down the toliet due to not being able to play the horrid new style of game they introduced.
It would be no different then if I went out, bought a brand new porche, then about two years later they come take it away and leave me with a pinto in my driveway. I would be confused and pissed off, so mad infact I would hate Porche and never buy another product from them in the future, as many have chose to do with SoE product's.
I was one of the lucky individuals that got a full reinburstment from SoE for the purchase of the game (multiple copies) I had 5 subs at the time. Also, I got back my 2 years of monthly payment's in full.
SoE didn't wake up over night and decide to make these huge changes. They had this planned, they are a large corp who likes to make money. Where they failed was to deliver proper communication stating the direction of the game was going. You cannot do this in the business world and get away with it.
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
You simply do not get it. You proudly say you will keep playing eq2 and vanguard. You were not a pre-nge swg vet.Check some of my followup posts... I was in SWG at launch till NGE. What if one day your characters in EQ2 were simply removed from the game? I would hit cancel... but I still got my money's worth from the game during that time, and made friendships in-game that carried with me through other games. My original SWG guild all joined WoW together and we still play together in most games now. What if your nearly 3 years of work and trust you put into the company had been ripped away? Game play is not work unless you are farming gold to sell for real money. If you consider playing games work then you need to unplug. It is that simple. Your post has a tone of a holyer then though attitude. I am not a SOE hater. I just recently cancelled eq2 after 4 years and I was a dedicted SWG player who all 3 mains were made useless after almost 3 years of work yet I still played EQ2. I do not hate SOE but I do understand why people do. SOE affected a lot of people with SWG and you should support them not put them down. Again, I understand anger and dissatisfaction... it is the HATE that I don't agree with. You ask what makes so many haters. I ask you what makes you have so little compassion for those who were truely hurt by SOE by nge. And again from my original post, how did the game TRULY hurt you? Physically? Emotionally? I understand the emotional aspect because SWG pretty much ruined my enjoyment of the star wars universe, but I still don't HATE the company. In the words of Donald Trump, "It's just business." What makes your post so thoughtless and ignorant of what SOE did to many players. You simply do not get it. The hate for SOE by many is justified. I still stand firm in stating that hate is a word thrown around too casually. I accept distrust, disgruntled, disenfranchised, hurt, upset, angry, and a slew of other words used to describe emotions, but I still draw the line at hate.
Is there a generation gap? Should I blame the media for making this generation forget what hate really is? Rodney King, KKK, Genocide, Nazis, Rwanda... this is hate. I am trying to draw a line between absolute emotion (like hate) and general displeasure in it's varying forms...
I dont hate SOE but I sure as hell dont trust them either.
I will still pay money to them if they have a preoduct that warrants it they just dont have that product anymore. As for Sony themselves with the exception of PS3 I wont buy any of their products anyway because they are overpriced crap you can get the same tech the same specs for more than half the price of their garbage. Only reason i bought a PS3 is because Pro Evo doesnt feel right not being on a PS
I can respect this opinion and many of the other, similar opinions... no hate. Your mistrust is warranted and you are filly entitled to feel that way. I believe you understand the diffence between hate and a lesser descriptive.
Comments
I pick out the posts that seem in most need of a response.
Check anything else I have ever posted about and tell me which threads are trolling. I respond to attacks as any normal person would. As questioned to me a few posts above your original post:
If someone repeatedly punched you in the face are you going to let them?
Attack the tread without having the intent to genuinely debate an issue and I will defend my writing.
Debate does not equal Trolling... maybe you should learn the difference... but at least you don't say you hate so you can't be all bad.
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/28371832@N02/2648951313/[/url]
Again, to reiterate, I have been burned by almost every SOE game released at one point or another (besides original EQ and Vanguard - however SOE would have burned me if I bought VG at release).
First, your analogies don't truly relate. Did SOE walk up to you on the street, throw the SWG box at your face and make you play month after month when you really didn't want to? A hammer in the face repeatedly does not relate to SOE changing a game...
I only wanted to know if people truly hate by definition of the word (not my definition of hate), or if people intensely dislike and use hate because it's easier to type. I believe I have my answer.
The point of the thread that so many people missed is that I wanted to know if people can hate a company. Contrary to what you've assumed about me, I have no problem with anger or dislike towards SOE. I have a problem with the use of the word hate when people should be using other words that correctly reflect their feelings. I am not forcing my definition on anyone I only find it an odd (and frankly scary trend) to see so many people spouting about hate.
Blizzard banned me from WoW once... I don't hate them.
NCSoft cancelled Auto Assualt that I was subscribed to and enjoying... I don't hate them.
However, I do dislike both companies.
And I'll leave it at that. People may think I am trolling and that is fine for them to believe so. I am sorry if I have strong attachments to some words however I am sure I can name at least an entire race of humans that can be sensitive to certain words as well. I'd love to see the word HATE as a word seldom used in the future, much like so many commonly used words from the 50's are now.
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/28371832@N02/2648951313/[/url]
I pick out the posts that seem in most need of a response.
Check anything else I have ever posted about and tell me which threads are trolling. I respond to attacks as any normal person would. As questioned to me a few posts above your original post:
If someone repeatedly punched you in the face are you going to let them?
Attack the tread without having the intent to genuinely debate an issue and I will defend my writing.
Debate does not equal Trolling... maybe you should learn the difference... but at least you don't say you hate so you can't be all bad.
instead of replying to attacks, reply to posts that bring up good points. All your doing is feeding trolls and encouraging them to flame you more.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Boy, some people just don't understand no matter how many times I try and explain it...
Asking a question and defending myself is not "trolling"... there are no stupid questions, only stupid people. You are showing your colors just fine.
This thread has grown longer than I imagined it would from a question that has been bothering me for some time. I do too much during the day to respond to every comment (good or bad) in this thread. If you are offended because I have not responded to one of yours you can now rest easy.
AGAIN, let me say... people can dislike SOE... I just don't like the use of the word hate and the alarming increase of its use in modern society.
THAT IS ALL I AM TRYING TO SAY.
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That is an EXCELLENT Emerson quote. I am definately going to remember that... thank you.
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At least you didn't say hate...
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Hate is cheap. So I hate lots of things and people.
When SoE decided to set the emerging MMOFPS genre back 5 years or more by releasing PlanetSide and willfully neglecting it to cause it's undeserved failure... I decided I hate SoE.
FINALLY! Something I understand (however I still don't like the word hate). I can see how setting a genre back 5 years could be cause for serious dislike/distrust... It's kind of how I feel about WoW.
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Say it aint SOE
Bronks is still ignoring the intelligable posts that make good points. I'm still waiting for a decent reply, all i keep hearing is the same thing over and over.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
When you feel the need to post a disclaimer that you don't work for the company you're about to give a virtual handjob to, you're not likely very big on wanting to debate a topic. This thread wasn't started to foster discussion, it was a loveletter.
Personally, I have been playing Sony games online since EQ in 99.
Never had a problem with them.
if you went to a restaurant and three rats ran by you while you were eating, would you not say anything to anyone? would you not mention that to your friends? possibly the health authorities? if your answer is "no, i would say nothing to anyone"; then just keep on trucking, your post is nothing but a weaksauced troll.
some of us have actually reported SOE to the BBB for their *forgetting* to cancel subs. no reason anyone should ever know about that eh?
if a gaming company produces a horrid game, there's no reason a gamer shouldn't tell another gamer, is there? if a gaming company repeatedly produces horrid games, or makes real low quality games, there's no reason anyone should ever form a negative opinion about them, is there?
nope, nothing to see there, i'm sure there's a lot of people still loving soe games to death.
out of curiousity, if soe is such hotness, how many of their games have more subs than eve? ccp was forced to admit to cheating commited by their employees, and i'm willing to bet they still have more subs than most of soe's games. or does soe just lump everything together on the station pass so that no one has any idea how low each game's sub actually is? the fact that eve online is doing as well as it is, AFTER proven corruption, and even people that hate that the corruption existed -- still play eve... that really does say something about how soe has (mis)treated a large group of players.
truth. it's not just for breakfast any more.
The haters seem to be missing the point...
On an emotional level, do you really HATE a company? Consider the ramifications of the word hate and tell me honestly. I understand what Sony has done. I have lived and played through what sony has done since everquest in 1999 up to present. Yes, I too was angry for buying the expansion. Yes I was upset and cancelled with the CU/NGE fiasco.
I can respect everyone's feelings on the issue. I just think these SOE haters are throwing around a word like HATE too casually. It is a terrible word and in my line of work hate is a word uglier and more vulgar than cursing...
I suppose I am more sensitive to the word but regardless of that HATE is a terrible word and conjures terrible images for me. I suppose I can start avoiding Hate threads. I only started this thread to see if people understand the word hate or if they are just using it incorrectly.
I think it's the latter which gives me some relief.
Nice, so anyone who disagrees with you is a 'hater'? For someone claiming to make a logical article and not 'sling mud' you sure are doing a good job of labeling people in a derogatory way. Hatred toward a company does not define people as haters, thats a gross stereotype.
Also it is interesting how you change the subject quickly. When someone gives you a practical real world metaphor of why people would continue to object to Sony Online Entertainment, it comes back to your semantic definition of hate.
There is nothing wrong with warning new players against a horrible company. It's how the market weeds out inferior companies. Poor customer service? Word gets around.
i think what we are seeing is the old MMO's (and their companies) are dying out.
as with all industries only the ones who adapt end up surviving innovations and changes in the industry. SOE has not really grasped change all that well.
EQ2 and Vanguard are so similar its just stupid to think they own both
planetside and EQ are so old it seems silly to even keep them going (i fully support those who still have fun in these games, your having a better time than i am
)
SOE's way of doing things in the MMO industry is quite old (and stale) compared to how some companies operate.
i think SOE is going to continue to struggle over the next few years until it either changes (dramatically) or it withers away.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
I actually agree. Never had a problem. Also I went back to EQ a few different times and different stages of the game and started all over and had a blast each time. It just got better for me, unlike how many say the game was ruined.
As far as SWG, I kind of knew bad things were coming before NGE. I can't find it now, but a while back I read an interview with Lucas about how he didn't agree with the vision of SWG. This was my hint to bail because Lucas has done stuff before like with novels if they didn't comform to his vision. Next thing I know, SWG is changed and crap, and SOE gets the blame. Hey, they probably are to blame, but I got out before it happened for a reason not pointing to SOE. Could be luck, could be coincidence, but I also remember how Lucas is with his stuff and he always has a clause to have a say in whatever is going on.
Oh, they did have a crappy release of EQ2, but I went back to it and had a lot of fun later on. (still like EQ better than EQ2 though)
I agree... nothing wrong with warning people at all. I used to warn people that Horizons was a wonderful game if you can find someone to play with. I still warn people that Blizzard is the largest wolf in sheep's clothing in the entire business world.
Incidentally, anyone complaining about customer service has never tried to cancel a Warcraft subscription during the first 3 months of original release or BC release... at that time, you couldn't even log into your account online. You had to call Blizzard's customer service department long distance to cancel. You also were not told about this until you tried to cancel online. Is that much different than what Sony did?
I also believe a hammer in the face is not a practical real world metaphor and does not relate to what SOE did to players. I also believe if people can spend so much energy 'hating' a company then they have a whole lot more hating energy to go around.
I can appreciate graphitti although it is illegal... I can appreciate a ranting post... I just can't give credence to posts that spout hate propaganda.
Have you ever noticed how the 'haters' hijack threads? Check the AOC forums or any SOE forum and read. I find haters small individuals that are probably griefers in-game because they are griefing others out of game by hijacking fanboy threads with their hate-filled nonsense.
My 2 cents...
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I knew something was wrong with SWG pre-CU when you could grab a set of doc buffs and go slay krayt dragons or nightsister elders solo... That's where I knew the game went wrong. Some content should never be solo content and SOE changed that to the extreme.
Do I miss soloing nightsister elders? Yes... but only because I miss SWG pre-cu. I think it would have been easy to downgrade the buff resources and make wearker versions of buffs but what does it matter now?
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I'm sure $$$OE loves you
You simply do not get it. You proudly say you will keep playing eq2 and vanguard. You were not a pre-nge swg vet. What if one day your characters in EQ2 were simply removed from the game? What if your nearly 3 years of work and trust you put into the company had been ripped away? It is that simple. Your post has a tone of a holyer then though attitude. I am not a SOE hater. I just recently cancelled eq2 after 4 years and I was a dedicted SWG player who all 3 mains were made useless after almost 3 years of work yet I still played EQ2. I do not hate SOE but I do understand why people do. SOE affected a lot of people with SWG and you should support them not put them down. You ask what makes so many haters. I ask you what makes you have so little compassion for those who were truely hurt by SOE by nge. What makes your post so thoughtless and ignorant of what SOE did to many players. You simply do not get it. The hate for SOE by many is justified.
Sony and SOE deserve far more hate than they are currently receiving. Both were the best in their area of business for a number of years, but due to mismanagement and arrogance they became the worst in their industries.
Frankly for many reasons, SOE is all that is wrong in the MMO business.
But do you really feel that they made this changes in the hope of destroying thier image? do you really think they wanted to ruin thier own games? because if they did then yes hate is deserved, but if it is simply that they made bad decisions then i have to agree that hate is unjustified...sorry but i have made bad decisions in my life to, some affected just me while others effected the people around me....but in no way did i ever mean it hurt anyone and i dont think i am evil due to making the wrong decisions. then again maybe it's contentment of life that lets hatred slip away from me.
Hey take up football it's great for hate release. or do as i and take your son to play for his local team and offer them support...i have to admit since i did quality of life seems to be better and hatred just seems pointless to me these days!
I dont hate SOE but I sure as hell dont trust them either.
I will still pay money to them if they have a preoduct that warrants it they just dont have that product anymore.
As for Sony themselves with the exception of PS3 I wont buy any of their products anyway because they are overpriced crap you can get the same tech the same specs for more than half the price of their garbage.
Only reason i bought a PS3 is because Pro Evo doesnt feel right not being on a PS
Here is what SoE (not Sony) did to make me have such hate towards them and any product they will ever produce. Yes, I assure you it is hate.
I will keep this simple and to the point. I payed and played a game for a couple years. I payed and played this game becuase I liked it at the time. In all my 14 years of MMO gaming or any gaming for that matter, I have never seen a company take the core mechanics of a game and just totally redo them. This made the game totally different and that is not what I payed to play. I also felt that my investment of time was all flushed down the toliet due to not being able to play the horrid new style of game they introduced.
It would be no different then if I went out, bought a brand new porche, then about two years later they come take it away and leave me with a pinto in my driveway. I would be confused and pissed off, so mad infact I would hate Porche and never buy another product from them in the future, as many have chose to do with SoE product's.
I was one of the lucky individuals that got a full reinburstment from SoE for the purchase of the game (multiple copies) I had 5 subs at the time. Also, I got back my 2 years of monthly payment's in full.
SoE didn't wake up over night and decide to make these huge changes. They had this planned, they are a large corp who likes to make money. Where they failed was to deliver proper communication stating the direction of the game was going. You cannot do this in the business world and get away with it.
Is there a generation gap? Should I blame the media for making this generation forget what hate really is? Rodney King, KKK, Genocide, Nazis, Rwanda... this is hate. I am trying to draw a line between absolute emotion (like hate) and general displeasure in it's varying forms...
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I can respect this opinion and many of the other, similar opinions... no hate. Your mistrust is warranted and you are filly entitled to feel that way. I believe you understand the diffence between hate and a lesser descriptive.
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