I think it goes with out saying that a game set in the Old Republic will include both Jedi and Sith right away. There is no lore-based justification for grinding a character to becoming a Jedi - it makes absolutely no sense in terms of the univerise, especially in the sense of how Jedi originate. The challenge, I think, is not to make playing a Jedi difficult to attain, but rather to make the other professions just as interesting and compelling to play....
Did you play KOTR???
and forget starting out as light / dark. You start out as neutral (alignment) like most all bioware titles. Roleplay should be making decisions dynamically not clicking on a little button and say "hey I want to be Evil sith ftw!".
This I would actually 100% agree with. In most if not all bioware titles, the thing on "Choice" is almost their calling card in all their games. Great observation on this, well done.
If the sith wars are in the old republic era i think they should shoot for that. Everyone oculd be a jedi but they could get very focused such as mostly defense or offensive. But they proly dont want to force jedi on people. Also everyone starting neutral would kick ass. Naybe go kill a few people to start sith or heal/save someone to start the way to light. Of course a netural faction would have to be there serving with the hutts of course.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
But I do have to say many I think are on the mark here in some of their comments. For instances...
1. We know KOTOR is the benchmark for this game and theme which brings the following (one can saftly guess for now)..
a. A story driven game "heavy" into the more single aspect with probably grouping with your buddies.
b. Given this factor, we can see it a possible closeness to say "guild wars" , you can or choose not to
group with other players while still being allot of instances so the story can be told "their way" and more interactively. This then brings the “somewhat like an MMO to mind”, because really guild wars isn't an MMO compared to your standard MMO products.
2. Looking at the history of KOTOR and finding some nice evidence of title reservation for some massive online entertainment being reserved by said companies, it is definitely safe at this point to assume everyone is right and we know the era. So with this in mind...
a. Jedi's a given even at start, however I would concur with a few comments here, I think we will see what we have seen in the previous KOTOR experience, you start out as a character attuned with the force and gradually build up your character to be whatever type of Jedi / Sith or? What you want it to be. This has been their formula and people love it, I doubt that concept will change because this will have online features.
b. Again heavy emphases on story in the game, well given this we can just again assume allot. Heavy stories in a general MMO can be interesting, but let's face it , reading a ton of text without actually having an effect on the world you are interacting with really doesn't bring the feel of a good story tell. So in this we can again pretty much assume allot of instancing were you can ultimately effect the world around you and your personal story. (This sort of thing really never has been done beyond the single player experience)
3. What do you want to play? Seriously answer this question 100% honestly. If SWG was any example, every single one of you (maybe and exception here and there) wants to play a Jedi or darn close to one. You want the feel of being that uber god player having a real impact on the world. Taking this in thought, it is pretty obvious they are in and will be part of your climb to your success in the game.
I have a few more thoughts on this, but alas too much to read starts getting boring; those are my thoughts on it and I take allot of this from many of you that have already posted.
So wouldn't you think this is the most likely scenario at this point? We honestly know nothing, but as before even the announcement, everything is definitely pointing in this direction.
-Looking forward to it for sure, heck it's Bioware!
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Well we are all in specialtion at this point, But I do have to say many I think are on the mark here in some of their comments. For instances...
1. We know KOTOR is the benchmark for this game and theme which brings the following (one can saftly guess for now).. a. A story driven game "heavy" into the more single aspect with probably grouping with your buddies.
b. Given this factor, we can see it a possible closeness to say "guild wars" , you can or choose not to
group with other players while still being allot of instances so the story can be told "their way" and more interactively. This then brings the “somewhat like an MMO to mind”, because really guild wars isn't an MMO compared to your standard MMO products. 2. Looking at the history of KOTOR and finding some nice evidence of title reservation for some massive online entertainment being reserved by said companies, it is definitely safe at this point to assume everyone is right and we know the era. So with this in mind... a. Jedi's a given even at start, however I would concur with a few comments here, I think we will see what we have seen in the previous KOTOR experience, you start out as a character attuned with the force and gradually build up your character to be whatever type of Jedi / Sith or? What you want it to be. This has been their formula and people love it, I doubt that concept will change because this will have online features. b. Again heavy emphases on story in the game, well given this we can just again assume allot. Heavy stories in a general MMO can be interesting, but let's face it , reading a ton of text without actually having an effect on the world you are interacting with really doesn't bring the feel of a good story tell. So in this we can again pretty much assume allot of instancing were you can ultimately effect the world around you and your personal story. (This sort of thing really never has been done beyond the single player experience) 3. What do you want to play? Seriously answer this question 100% honestly. If SWG was any example, every single one of you (maybe and exception here and there) wants to play a Jedi or darn close to one. You want the feel of being that uber god player having a real impact on the world. Taking this in thought, it is pretty obvious they are in and will be part of your climb to your success in the game.
I have a few more thoughts on this, but alas too much to read starts getting boring; those are my thoughts on it and I take allot of this from many of you that have already posted. So wouldn't you think this is the most likely scenario at this point? We honestly know nothing, but as before even the announcement, everything is definitely pointing in this direction.
-Looking forward to it for sure, heck it's Bioware!
The only issue I see with this style is that introducing complex story driven quest that maybe have divergent results (like gaining light side or dark side) like in KotOR and mixing that with MMO players....IMHO you will see a lot of backlash against anything that requires to much grey mater.
Bioware will no doubt be able to make a fine RPG that is also an MMO, that much I am sure of but will MMO players want that? They haven't yet. In fact, MMO players have demonstrated again and again, the more simplistic and non-consenquencial, the better.
The only issue I see with this style is that introducing complex story driven quest that maybe have divergent results (like gaining light side or dark side) like in KotOR and mixing that with MMO players....IMHO you will see a lot of backlash against anything that requires to much grey mater.
Bioware will no doubt be able to make a fine RPG that is also an MMO, that much I am sure of but will MMO players want that? They haven't yet. In fact, MMO players have demonstrated again and again, the more simplistic and non-consenquencial, the better.
Agree with you there..
I am not sure that the "pick your liking" will actually be in, probably more black and white or in this case , jedi or sith, but I would think (or like to) that this path isn't just a clicked choice, but something that as you "choose your path" (as so many bioware games are) you choose your desinty (no pun intended )..
As far as a full fledge MMO? Things are just hinting that is really not the case, but close to an MMO and close to an MMO to me and most I have talked to in the past would agree is close to what Guild Wars would be considered. I wouldn't go as far as to say a Dungeon Runner or Diablo type online game, but more to the "it has MMO aspects" but really, it's a great single player experiance that you can bring your friends along with to discover on their own as well. IE Guild Wars Style. Only a guess ofcourse, but if it was true blown out MMO, I would be very happy, I just can't see how it can be done in a persistant world that everyone shares without someone being left out of a choice, if you catch my meaning.
For in a world like that, to again make a story feel like you are actually envolved, would allow for iteraction of object (Moving or destructable), changing of the world geographics or character additudes to you etc. Now yes, some of these things can be done, but think about all bioware titles. The world around you actually goes with those changes and choices you make in most cases. This would be a nightmare to do if you had everyone in the same world at the same time on different steps waiting on say 4 others to finish and that part of the world to reset yet again. Think epic mob camping as a prime excample , not very fun and today we see all of that instanced now in any modern MMO. Just a thought.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Another interesting thing brought up in the portfolio.com KOTOR article was EA is apparently looking at the RMT route:
Quotes from the article:
MMOs will also be useful as a way to expand into foreign territories.
"China's a growth market for us," he said. "We're launching some mid-session games on a micro-transaction model." In May of last year, the company announced an equity investment in a leading Chinese online game operator, The9, Ltd. "And there's a bunch more coming that we haven't announced."
"The PC business in terms of it's aggregate of subscriptions/micro-transactions is also way up. "
So, you may want to be a Jedi up front, but you may have to pay for it. I have less faith in EA than Bioware on this, as EA has proven to be very MMO unfriendly and will shut a MMO game down quickly if the subs are too low in their eyes. Usually, EA's acquisition of companies that produce MMO's are for their other titles (see Westwood Studios). What would have a better impact on the financial side for EA: A costly MMO that may or may not bring in the sub numbers based on initial launch or multiple RPG Singleplayer/multiplayer box title continuations?
Watch EA closely on this game.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
Star wars -jedi=random generic sci fi storyline. Sorry, but theres honestly nothing in star wars that even remotely resembles interesting content without jedi(at it's core, the actions inspired by non jedi in the world can be interesting, but so could random sci fi 213412412)
Just look at mass effect, it pretty much nailed the same generic sci fi hole that star wars fit in, just with it's own cast.
If i have to basically beat the game to play the class i want, then screw that, it's not worth my time.
The goal of an MMORPG is to allow players to express themselves to other players and tell their character's unique story.
Jedi should be the only profession players can choose in a MMO based on KOTOR.
You should start off as a Youngling progress to Padawan Learner then Jedi Knight and finally Jedi Master.
There should be multiple progression paths with each giving your character a unique look at the end. The color of your lightsaber, the style of robe you wear, your characters fighting stance and fighting animations should be determined as you play the game, what skills you choose to focus on and who you choose to learn your skills from.
As far as making money goes - this is the WoW formula set to KOTOR.
The youngling stage should be about you learning how to play the game. Your NPC Master should lead you thru a tutorial on how to play. The Padawan Learner stage should see you questing with a stationary pez despensing Master Jedi who sends you near and far to complete quests giving you an idea of the world you are playing in and exploring the possibilities. At the Jedi Knight level you should be dabbling in PvP, building up your character's abilities/gear/talents/skills and focusing on what you find fun to do in the game. At the master level you should be somewhat of an expert in the game, be focused on end game raids/battlegrounds/epic quests and maybe even have a npc padawan that you can call upon to assist you when you need it.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
This is how i think it should work. You start off as a regular person, no class. The only thing you choose at the beginning of the game is your home planet, stats, skills, and race.
Then, through Quests and Planetary travel, more options come up for you to join a faction, receive faction-specific equipment, quests, and training to become a specific character class.
Ofir, love the idea, sadly it just doesn't seem bioware enough, (if there is such a thing)
Now Wickersham, I definitly agree with you, I wouldn't doubt we would see that sort of game if it is an MMO as we know MMO's to be. Again we will have to wait and see on that one, but just from what we do know, atm I am leaning to the Guild Wars type of game play sadly. Trust me , this is far from my first choice in the matter, but I am just going by what I know of bioware and what we have heard (the tibits) in the press. I hope I am 100% WRONG! but I just feel this is the rout they would take if it is being constantly mentioned (even prior to really knowing it was starwars which we all knew it was :P ) that it is very heavy into story telling type of game.
But I DO HOPE it is what you talk about and it would be so much better if it was like Ofir's thoughts, eek the suspense is killing me on this title
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
The other guy is right, Star Wars (for me) is all bout the Jedi, so if Jedi is not a starting prof., then I will not buy this game. (may try a trial or two, though
Might be a little off topic here but I hope they have a "fable" type reputation system in the game. Where your rep effects your skills and skill powers/choices.
I don't know about you guys but I always prefer to play a darker character. In KoTOR I and II I went down the dark path and I did the same in Fable. It's just more fun IMO.
"Da bigger da Orc, da stronger da Orc. Da stronger da Orc, da more dat's Orc's da boss. No wonder da Black Orcs is always da bosses!" - Splinta, a Goblin in the Bloody Sun Boyz tribe
Another interesting thing brought up in the portfolio.com KOTOR article was EA is apparently looking at the RMT route: Quotes from the article: MMOs will also be useful as a way to expand into foreign territories.
"China's a growth market for us," he said. "We're launching some mid-session games on a micro-transaction model." In May of last year, the company announced an equity investment in a leading Chinese online game operator, The9, Ltd. "And there's a bunch more coming that we haven't announced."
"The PC business in terms of it's aggregate of subscriptions/micro-transactions is also way up. "
So, you may want to be a Jedi up front, but you may have to pay for it. I have less faith in EA than Bioware on this, as EA has proven to be very MMO unfriendly and will shut a MMO game down quickly if the subs are too low in their eyes. Usually, EA's acquisition of companies that produce MMO's are for their other titles (see Westwood Studios). What would have a better impact on the financial side for EA: A costly MMO that may or may not bring in the sub numbers based on initial launch or multiple RPG Singleplayer/multiplayer box title continuations? Watch EA closely on this game.
Bioware, 2007 AGC
"Micro transactions are the future of online gaming"
I will dig that out next week sometime if I remember.
Star wars -jedi=random generic sci fi storyline. Sorry, but theres honestly nothing in star wars that even remotely resembles interesting content without jedi(at it's core, the actions inspired by non jedi in the world can be interesting, but so could random sci fi 213412412)
Just look at mass effect, it pretty much nailed the same generic sci fi hole that star wars fit in, just with it's own cast. If i have to basically beat the game to play the class i want, then screw that, it's not worth my time.
If you pealed off the title "Star Wars" from Star Wars Galaxies and named it "Space Frontiers, dueling lazer swords" or something, it would be a critical smash success. The game has like every feature from housing to starships, ground vehicles, PvP...blah, blah, blah...they only thing that cripples it is that NGE fiasco.
Originally posted by Torak Bioware, 2007 AGC "Micro transactions are the future of online gaming" I will dig that out next week sometime if I remember.
"EA Online unveiled a new identity and micro-transaction system" and "In addition, EA Online has built powerful backend tools that will make micro-transactions a bigger part of the gaming experience"
....and so it begins for EA and its games.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
Originally posted by Torak Bioware, 2007 AGC "Micro transactions are the future of online gaming" I will dig that out next week sometime if I remember.
"EA Online unveiled a new identity and micro-transaction system" and "In addition, EA Online has built powerful backend tools that will make micro-transactions a bigger part of the gaming experience"
....and so it begins for EA and its games.
Dude, they are all going to micro-transactions Monthly sub games have fallen on their faces. All the major game companies publicly discussed this last year at AGC.
I wont be playing the game if it uses Micro Transactions even though I love KOTOR.
As far as Jedi's and Sith go I believe the system mentioned could interesting where you start off as one class and then switch to a Jedi or Sith class later into the game. It seems the best path though would just to have everyone choose either a Jedi or Sith class at the begginning and start at their respective trainning areas. I can understand a lot of people might be interested in playing other classes, but it seems to imbalanced to me.
I also believe that bioware with give the option for switching back and forth between light side and dark side based on your actions. All their games seem to have this type of system in place.
As for being forced to used lightsabers I don't believe that should be the case. Maybe you could have a Jedi/Sith class that specializes in blasters, rifles, blades, staves, or perhaps nothing at all other then the force itself.
I have always dreamed of seeing a game with large scale battles between real players of Jedi and Sith. It may be childish, but I still think it would be incredible to watch with good graphics and well done Jedi/Sith classes.
Originally posted by vajuras Originally posted by Manveru I think it goes with out saying that a game set in the Old Republic will include both Jedi and Sith right away. There is no lore-based justification for grinding a character to becoming a Jedi - it makes absolutely no sense in terms of the univerise, especially in the sense of how Jedi originate. The challenge, I think, is not to make playing a Jedi difficult to attain, but rather to make the other professions just as interesting and compelling to play....
Did you play KOTR???
and forget starting out as light / dark. You start out as neutral (alignment) like most all bioware titles. Roleplay should be making decisions dynamically not clicking on a little button and say "hey I want to be Evil sith ftw!".
yep, also there is no reason why they cannot balance the other races/classes to compete with jedi/sith.
there were non-jedi in the original KOTOR that were bad asses and could compete with jedi.
I think it goes with out saying that a game set in the Old Republic will include both Jedi and Sith right away. There is no lore-based justification for grinding a character to becoming a Jedi - it makes absolutely no sense in terms of the univerise, especially in the sense of how Jedi originate. The challenge, I think, is not to make playing a Jedi difficult to attain, but rather to make the other professions just as interesting and compelling to play....
Did you play KOTR???
and forget starting out as light / dark. You start out as neutral (alignment) like most all bioware titles. Roleplay should be making decisions dynamically not clicking on a little button and say "hey I want to be Evil sith ftw!".
yep, also there is no reason why they cannot balance the other races/classes to compete with jedi/sith.
there were non-jedi in the original KOTOR that were bad asses and could compete with jedi.
Anyone who could cpmpete with a Jedi was very rare. Having other classes will likely just make Jedi/Sith more average then they should be. Also most people will be playing Jedi/Sith if the NGE is any indication so it's somewhat pointless to a few bounter hunters, a few smugglers, and then a tun of Jedi and Sith. IMO you either have Jedi/Sith or you have the rest of the classes by themselves. To me it's a no brainer in Star Wars to go with the Jedi/Sith IMO.
I wont be playing the game if it uses Micro Transactions even though I love KOTOR. As far as Jedi's and Sith go I believe the system mentioned could interesting where you start off as one class and then switch to a Jedi or Sith class later into the game. It seems the best path though would just to have everyone choose either a Jedi or Sith class at the begginning and start at their respective trainning areas. I can understand a lot of people might be interested in playing other classes, but it seems to imbalanced to me. I also believe that bioware with give the option for switching back and forth between light side and dark side based on your actions. All their games seem to have this type of system in place. As for being forced to used lightsabers I don't believe that should be the case. Maybe you could have a Jedi/Sith class that specializes in blasters, rifles, blades, staves, or perhaps nothing at all other then the force itself. I have always dreamed of seeing a game with large scale battles between real players of Jedi and Sith. It may be childish, but I still think it would be incredible to watch with good graphics and well done Jedi/Sith classes.
Same here. I will not play a game with micro transactions.
Jedi vs Sith is tailor made for PvP. It would be fun.
Originally posted by Torak Bioware, 2007 AGC "Micro transactions are the future of online gaming" I will dig that out next week sometime if I remember.
"EA Online unveiled a new identity and micro-transaction system" and "In addition, EA Online has built powerful backend tools that will make micro-transactions a bigger part of the gaming experience"
....and so it begins for EA and its games.
Dude, they are all going to micro-transactions Monthly sub games have fallen on their faces. All the major game companies publicly discussed this last year at AGC.
They came to 2 major decisions:
micro transactions are where they are heading
lower system specs
I'm not a fan of microtransaction games either...but let's be honest...you generally wind up paying less money per month for a microtransaction game than you do for a subscription based game...but for some reason game companies right now believe that microtransactions are more accesable to gamers, I don't believe that this is the case, as everyone that I know tends to shy away from them.
I think you'll be fine with a microtransaction system if you just decide to put down 15 bucks a month at the beginning of each month for whatever they have up for sale, and then just play through to the next month and see what you need from there.
This is assuming that the game would be microtransaction of course, which I sincerely hope that it's not.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I think it goes with out saying that a game set in the Old Republic will include both Jedi and Sith right away. There is no lore-based justification for grinding a character to becoming a Jedi - it makes absolutely no sense in terms of the univerise, especially in the sense of how Jedi originate. The challenge, I think, is not to make playing a Jedi difficult to attain, but rather to make the other professions just as interesting and compelling to play....
Did you play KOTR???
and forget starting out as light / dark. You start out as neutral (alignment) like most all bioware titles. Roleplay should be making decisions dynamically not clicking on a little button and say "hey I want to be Evil sith ftw!".
yep, also there is no reason why they cannot balance the other races/classes to compete with jedi/sith.
there were non-jedi in the original KOTOR that were bad asses and could compete with jedi.
Anyone who could cpmpete with a Jedi was very rare. Having other classes will likely just make Jedi/Sith more average then they should be. Also most people will be playing Jedi/Sith if the NGE is any indication so it's somewhat pointless to a few bounter hunters, a few smugglers, and then a tun of Jedi and Sith. IMO you either have Jedi/Sith or you have the rest of the classes by themselves. To me it's a no brainer in Star Wars to go with the Jedi/Sith IMO.
I disagree, I don't think that it's pointless.
The game has to provide a wide range of experiences to players, not just attacking things with force powers and a light saber...if people who could compete with jedi were rare, then make the player characters THOSE people...I mean, you are playing a game so that you can feel like you are powerful right? You're not playing it so that you can feel like you're stormtrooper TK-421. Make the player bounty hunters able to compete with jedi, make gunslingers dangerous foes...and remember, not all jedi were these ridiculously powerful forces of nature, just look at the battle in episode two where tons of jedi were shot down by droids...DROIDS!! It's not as though all jedi are these super human unstopable wrecking machines like we see in Darth Revan...those types of jedi and sith are rare.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I think it goes with out saying that a game set in the Old Republic will include both Jedi and Sith right away. There is no lore-based justification for grinding a character to becoming a Jedi - it makes absolutely no sense in terms of the univerise, especially in the sense of how Jedi originate. The challenge, I think, is not to make playing a Jedi difficult to attain, but rather to make the other professions just as interesting and compelling to play....
Did you play KOTR???
and forget starting out as light / dark. You start out as neutral (alignment) like most all bioware titles. Roleplay should be making decisions dynamically not clicking on a little button and say "hey I want to be Evil sith ftw!".
yep, also there is no reason why they cannot balance the other races/classes to compete with jedi/sith.
there were non-jedi in the original KOTOR that were bad asses and could compete with jedi.
Anyone who could cpmpete with a Jedi was very rare. Having other classes will likely just make Jedi/Sith more average then they should be. Also most people will be playing Jedi/Sith if the NGE is any indication so it's somewhat pointless to a few bounter hunters, a few smugglers, and then a tun of Jedi and Sith. IMO you either have Jedi/Sith or you have the rest of the classes by themselves. To me it's a no brainer in Star Wars to go with the Jedi/Sith IMO.
I disagree, I don't think that it's pointless.
The game has to provide a wide range of experiences to players, not just attacking things with force powers and a light saber...if people who could compete with jedi were rare, then make the player characters THOSE people...I mean, you are playing a game so that you can feel like you are powerful right? You're not playing it so that you can feel like you're stormtrooper TK-421. Make the player bounty hunters able to compete with jedi, make gunslingers dangerous foes...and remember, not all jedi were these ridiculously powerful forces of nature, just look at the battle in episode two where tons of jedi were shot down by droids...DROIDS!! It's not as though all jedi are these super human unstopable wrecking machines like we see in Darth Revan...those types of jedi and sith are rare.
There is still the issue that most people are going to play a Jedi or Sith even if there could be some balance here. It wouldn't be much fun seeing a few of one class, but many of another running around. I doesn't make much sense.
Any Jedi that were killed by Droids were likely outnumbered by a large amount. Aside from bounty hunters I doubt there were many who could stand up to a Jedi so that leaves all the other classes out for the most part.
As for having variety other then having dividing the Jedi/Sith up into multiple classes for more options you will have a large assortment of crafting skills that both can learn I'm sure. There is your variety.
I think it goes with out saying that a game set in the Old Republic will include both Jedi and Sith right away. There is no lore-based justification for grinding a character to becoming a Jedi - it makes absolutely no sense in terms of the univerise, especially in the sense of how Jedi originate. The challenge, I think, is not to make playing a Jedi difficult to attain, but rather to make the other professions just as interesting and compelling to play....
Did you play KOTR???
and forget starting out as light / dark. You start out as neutral (alignment) like most all bioware titles. Roleplay should be making decisions dynamically not clicking on a little button and say "hey I want to be Evil sith ftw!".
yep, also there is no reason why they cannot balance the other races/classes to compete with jedi/sith.
there were non-jedi in the original KOTOR that were bad asses and could compete with jedi.
Anyone who could cpmpete with a Jedi was very rare. Having other classes will likely just make Jedi/Sith more average then they should be. Also most people will be playing Jedi/Sith if the NGE is any indication so it's somewhat pointless to a few bounter hunters, a few smugglers, and then a tun of Jedi and Sith. IMO you either have Jedi/Sith or you have the rest of the classes by themselves. To me it's a no brainer in Star Wars to go with the Jedi/Sith IMO.
I disagree, I don't think that it's pointless.
The game has to provide a wide range of experiences to players, not just attacking things with force powers and a light saber...if people who could compete with jedi were rare, then make the player characters THOSE people...I mean, you are playing a game so that you can feel like you are powerful right? You're not playing it so that you can feel like you're stormtrooper TK-421. Make the player bounty hunters able to compete with jedi, make gunslingers dangerous foes...and remember, not all jedi were these ridiculously powerful forces of nature, just look at the battle in episode two where tons of jedi were shot down by droids...DROIDS!! It's not as though all jedi are these super human unstopable wrecking machines like we see in Darth Revan...those types of jedi and sith are rare.
There is still the issue that most people are going to play a Jedi or Sith even if there could be some balance here. It wouldn't be much fun seeing a few of one class, but many of another running around. I doesn't make much sense.
Any Jedi that were killed by Droids were likely outnumbered by a large amount. Aside from bounty hunters I doubt there were many who could stand up to a Jedi so that leaves all the other classes out for the most part.
As for having variety other then having dividing the Jedi/Sith up into multiple classes for more options you will have a large assortment of crafting skills that both can learn I'm sure. There is your variety.
So you're saying that since most people will play jedi and sith that they shouldn't even bother with the other classes? This timeline has a race known as the mandalorians in it...The mandalorians fought a war with the jedi in the Old Republic...I think that they can hold their own and would be a very attractive player class, the Mandalorian soldier or commando would appeal to a massive audience as soon as they mentioned the name "Boba Fett" If you don't know the lore behind this, go and look it up...Basically Jango Fett was adopted by a Mandalorian and that's why he wears the armor that he does...Obviously Jango and Boba are in a different timeline, but just a mention of the name by Bioware to give players an idea of who the Mandalorians are will spark many peopel to want to play as one.
I don't think that it's smart to limit player classes just because you assume that 90% of players will want to be jedi...I know that a majority WILL be jedi, but that doesn't mean that they should skimp out on other classes that people would like to play.
I like the idea of having variety among sith and jedi characters, but why not have as much variety as you can while still maintaining balance? Variety among jedi really just means lightsaber vs force wielder as far as combat classes go, and then you have sith vs light side, so that's really only four different classes of characters...an MMO these days NEEDS to have more, you can't have a AAA mmo title with only four classes.
besides all of this, one of the job applications on Bioware's site indicate that I'm right here anyway...The requirements listed for the job are, among other things "knowledge of complex class balancing for a next generation AAA MMO title"
I don't think that four classes constitutes complex class balancing.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I hope the graphics look like Mass Effect and not that new Clone Wars MovieI. I know the last 2 kotor had auto attack but I hope it has real time combat at least with normal attacks.
Comments
Did you play KOTR???
and forget starting out as light / dark. You start out as neutral (alignment) like most all bioware titles. Roleplay should be making decisions dynamically not clicking on a little button and say "hey I want to be Evil sith ftw!".
This I would actually 100% agree with. In most if not all bioware titles, the thing on "Choice" is almost their calling card in all their games. Great observation on this, well done.
If the sith wars are in the old republic era i think they should shoot for that. Everyone oculd be a jedi but they could get very focused such as mostly defense or offensive. But they proly dont want to force jedi on people. Also everyone starting neutral would kick ass. Naybe go kill a few people to start sith or heal/save someone to start the way to light. Of course a netural faction would have to be there serving with the hutts of course.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Well we are all in specialtion at this point,
But I do have to say many I think are on the mark here in some of their comments. For instances...
1. We know KOTOR is the benchmark for this game and theme which brings the following (one can saftly guess for now)..
a. A story driven game "heavy" into the more single aspect with probably grouping with your buddies.
b. Given this factor, we can see it a possible closeness to say "guild wars" , you can or choose not to
group with other players while still being allot of instances so the story can be told "their way" and more interactively. This then brings the “somewhat like an MMO to mind”, because really guild wars isn't an MMO compared to your standard MMO products.
2. Looking at the history of KOTOR and finding some nice evidence of title reservation for some massive online entertainment being reserved by said companies, it is definitely safe at this point to assume everyone is right and we know the era. So with this in mind...
a. Jedi's a given even at start, however I would concur with a few comments here, I think we will see what we have seen in the previous KOTOR experience, you start out as a character attuned with the force and gradually build up your character to be whatever type of Jedi / Sith or? What you want it to be. This has been their formula and people love it, I doubt that concept will change because this will have online features.
b. Again heavy emphases on story in the game, well given this we can just again assume allot. Heavy stories in a general MMO can be interesting, but let's face it , reading a ton of text without actually having an effect on the world you are interacting with really doesn't bring the feel of a good story tell. So in this we can again pretty much assume allot of instancing were you can ultimately effect the world around you and your personal story. (This sort of thing really never has been done beyond the single player experience)
3. What do you want to play? Seriously answer this question 100% honestly. If SWG was any example, every single one of you (maybe and exception here and there) wants to play a Jedi or darn close to one. You want the feel of being that uber god player having a real impact on the world. Taking this in thought, it is pretty obvious they are in and will be part of your climb to your success in the game.
I have a few more thoughts on this, but alas too much to read starts getting boring; those are my thoughts on it and I take allot of this from many of you that have already posted.
So wouldn't you think this is the most likely scenario at this point? We honestly know nothing, but as before even the announcement, everything is definitely pointing in this direction.
-Looking forward to it for sure, heck it's Bioware!
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
The only issue I see with this style is that introducing complex story driven quest that maybe have divergent results (like gaining light side or dark side) like in KotOR and mixing that with MMO players....IMHO you will see a lot of backlash against anything that requires to much grey mater.
Bioware will no doubt be able to make a fine RPG that is also an MMO, that much I am sure of but will MMO players want that? They haven't yet. In fact, MMO players have demonstrated again and again, the more simplistic and non-consenquencial, the better.
Agree with you there..
I am not sure that the "pick your liking" will actually be in, probably more black and white or in this case , jedi or sith, but I would think (or like to) that this path isn't just a clicked choice, but something that as you "choose your path" (as so many bioware games are) you choose your desinty (no pun intended
)..
As far as a full fledge MMO? Things are just hinting that is really not the case, but close to an MMO and close to an MMO to me and most I have talked to in the past would agree is close to what Guild Wars would be considered. I wouldn't go as far as to say a Dungeon Runner or Diablo type online game, but more to the "it has MMO aspects" but really, it's a great single player experiance that you can bring your friends along with to discover on their own as well. IE Guild Wars Style. Only a guess ofcourse, but if it was true blown out MMO, I would be very happy, I just can't see how it can be done in a persistant world that everyone shares without someone being left out of a choice, if you catch my meaning.
For in a world like that, to again make a story feel like you are actually envolved, would allow for iteraction of object (Moving or destructable), changing of the world geographics or character additudes to you etc. Now yes, some of these things can be done, but think about all bioware titles. The world around you actually goes with those changes and choices you make in most cases. This would be a nightmare to do if you had everyone in the same world at the same time on different steps waiting on say 4 others to finish and that part of the world to reset yet again. Think epic mob camping as a prime excample , not very fun and today we see all of that instanced now in any modern MMO. Just a thought.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Another interesting thing brought up in the portfolio.com KOTOR article was EA is apparently looking at the RMT route:
Quotes from the article:
MMOs will also be useful as a way to expand into foreign territories.
"China's a growth market for us," he said. "We're launching some mid-session games on a micro-transaction model." In May of last year, the company announced an equity investment in a leading Chinese online game operator, The9, Ltd. "And there's a bunch more coming that we haven't announced."
"The PC business in terms of it's aggregate of subscriptions/micro-transactions is also way up. "
So, you may want to be a Jedi up front, but you may have to pay for it. I have less faith in EA than Bioware on this, as EA has proven to be very MMO unfriendly and will shut a MMO game down quickly if the subs are too low in their eyes. Usually, EA's acquisition of companies that produce MMO's are for their other titles (see Westwood Studios). What would have a better impact on the financial side for EA: A costly MMO that may or may not bring in the sub numbers based on initial launch or multiple RPG Singleplayer/multiplayer box title continuations?
Watch EA closely on this game.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
All i have to say is this...
Star wars -jedi=random generic sci fi storyline. Sorry, but theres honestly nothing in star wars that even remotely resembles interesting content without jedi(at it's core, the actions inspired by non jedi in the world can be interesting, but so could random sci fi 213412412)
Just look at mass effect, it pretty much nailed the same generic sci fi hole that star wars fit in, just with it's own cast.
If i have to basically beat the game to play the class i want, then screw that, it's not worth my time.
The goal of an MMORPG is to allow players to express themselves to other players and tell their character's unique story.
Jedi should be the only profession players can choose in a MMO based on KOTOR.
You should start off as a Youngling progress to Padawan Learner then Jedi Knight and finally Jedi Master.
There should be multiple progression paths with each giving your character a unique look at the end. The color of your lightsaber, the style of robe you wear, your characters fighting stance and fighting animations should be determined as you play the game, what skills you choose to focus on and who you choose to learn your skills from.
As far as making money goes - this is the WoW formula set to KOTOR.
The youngling stage should be about you learning how to play the game. Your NPC Master should lead you thru a tutorial on how to play. The Padawan Learner stage should see you questing with a stationary pez despensing Master Jedi who sends you near and far to complete quests giving you an idea of the world you are playing in and exploring the possibilities. At the Jedi Knight level you should be dabbling in PvP, building up your character's abilities/gear/talents/skills and focusing on what you find fun to do in the game. At the master level you should be somewhat of an expert in the game, be focused on end game raids/battlegrounds/epic quests and maybe even have a npc padawan that you can call upon to assist you when you need it.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
This is how i think it should work. You start off as a regular person, no class. The only thing you choose at the beginning of the game is your home planet, stats, skills, and race.
Then, through Quests and Planetary travel, more options come up for you to join a faction, receive faction-specific equipment, quests, and training to become a specific character class.
Ofir, love the idea, sadly it just doesn't seem bioware enough, (if there is such a thing)
Now Wickersham, I definitly agree with you, I wouldn't doubt we would see that sort of game if it is an MMO as we know MMO's to be. Again we will have to wait and see on that one, but just from what we do know, atm I am leaning to the Guild Wars type of game play sadly. Trust me , this is far from my first choice in the matter, but I am just going by what I know of bioware and what we have heard (the tibits) in the press. I hope I am 100% WRONG! but I just feel this is the rout they would take if it is being constantly mentioned (even prior to really knowing it was starwars which we all knew it was :P ) that it is very heavy into story telling type of game.
But I DO HOPE it is what you talk about and it would be so much better if it was like Ofir's thoughts, eek the suspense is killing me on this title
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
The other guy is right, Star Wars (for me) is all bout the Jedi, so if Jedi is not a starting prof., then I will not buy this game. (may try a trial or two, though
Might be a little off topic here but I hope they have a "fable" type reputation system in the game. Where your rep effects your skills and skill powers/choices.
I don't know about you guys but I always prefer to play a darker character. In KoTOR I and II I went down the dark path and I did the same in Fable. It's just more fun IMO.
"Da bigger da Orc, da stronger da Orc. Da stronger da Orc, da more dat's Orc's da boss. No wonder da Black Orcs is always da bosses!"
- Splinta, a Goblin in the Bloody Sun Boyz tribe
Bioware, 2007 AGC
"Micro transactions are the future of online gaming"
I will dig that out next week sometime if I remember.
If you pealed off the title "Star Wars" from Star Wars Galaxies and named it "Space Frontiers, dueling lazer swords" or something, it would be a critical smash success. The game has like every feature from housing to starships, ground vehicles, PvP...blah, blah, blah...they only thing that cripples it is that NGE fiasco.
Heh, just found this from an E3 report this week:
"EA Online unveiled a new identity and micro-transaction system" and "In addition, EA Online has built powerful backend tools that will make micro-transactions a bigger part of the gaming experience"
....and so it begins for EA and its games.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
Heh, just found this from an E3 report this week:
"EA Online unveiled a new identity and micro-transaction system" and "In addition, EA Online has built powerful backend tools that will make micro-transactions a bigger part of the gaming experience"
....and so it begins for EA and its games.
Dude, they are all going to micro-transactions
Monthly sub games have fallen on their faces. All the major game companies publicly discussed this last year at AGC.
They came to 2 major decisions:
I wont be playing the game if it uses Micro Transactions even though I love KOTOR.
As far as Jedi's and Sith go I believe the system mentioned could interesting where you start off as one class and then switch to a Jedi or Sith class later into the game. It seems the best path though would just to have everyone choose either a Jedi or Sith class at the begginning and start at their respective trainning areas. I can understand a lot of people might be interested in playing other classes, but it seems to imbalanced to me.
I also believe that bioware with give the option for switching back and forth between light side and dark side based on your actions. All their games seem to have this type of system in place.
As for being forced to used lightsabers I don't believe that should be the case. Maybe you could have a Jedi/Sith class that specializes in blasters, rifles, blades, staves, or perhaps nothing at all other then the force itself.
I have always dreamed of seeing a game with large scale battles between real players of Jedi and Sith. It may be childish, but I still think it would be incredible to watch with good graphics and well done Jedi/Sith classes.
Did you play KOTR???
and forget starting out as light / dark. You start out as neutral (alignment) like most all bioware titles. Roleplay should be making decisions dynamically not clicking on a little button and say "hey I want to be Evil sith ftw!".
yep, also there is no reason why they cannot balance the other races/classes to compete with jedi/sith.
there were non-jedi in the original KOTOR that were bad asses and could compete with jedi.
In the Old Republic Jedi atleast fits in the storyline.
I can care less if it's a starting prof or not. As long as it don't change to one later like SWG did to me.
I have some faith Bioware is going to come through for us and make a good redemption for us Star Wars geeks.
SHOHADAKU
Did you play KOTR???
and forget starting out as light / dark. You start out as neutral (alignment) like most all bioware titles. Roleplay should be making decisions dynamically not clicking on a little button and say "hey I want to be Evil sith ftw!".
yep, also there is no reason why they cannot balance the other races/classes to compete with jedi/sith.
there were non-jedi in the original KOTOR that were bad asses and could compete with jedi.
Anyone who could cpmpete with a Jedi was very rare. Having other classes will likely just make Jedi/Sith more average then they should be. Also most people will be playing Jedi/Sith if the NGE is any indication so it's somewhat pointless to a few bounter hunters, a few smugglers, and then a tun of Jedi and Sith. IMO you either have Jedi/Sith or you have the rest of the classes by themselves. To me it's a no brainer in Star Wars to go with the Jedi/Sith IMO.
Same here. I will not play a game with micro transactions.
Jedi vs Sith is tailor made for PvP. It would be fun.
Heh, just found this from an E3 report this week:
"EA Online unveiled a new identity and micro-transaction system" and "In addition, EA Online has built powerful backend tools that will make micro-transactions a bigger part of the gaming experience"
....and so it begins for EA and its games.
Dude, they are all going to micro-transactions
Monthly sub games have fallen on their faces. All the major game companies publicly discussed this last year at AGC.
They came to 2 major decisions:
I'm not a fan of microtransaction games either...but let's be honest...you generally wind up paying less money per month for a microtransaction game than you do for a subscription based game...but for some reason game companies right now believe that microtransactions are more accesable to gamers, I don't believe that this is the case, as everyone that I know tends to shy away from them.
I think you'll be fine with a microtransaction system if you just decide to put down 15 bucks a month at the beginning of each month for whatever they have up for sale, and then just play through to the next month and see what you need from there.
This is assuming that the game would be microtransaction of course, which I sincerely hope that it's not.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Did you play KOTR???
and forget starting out as light / dark. You start out as neutral (alignment) like most all bioware titles. Roleplay should be making decisions dynamically not clicking on a little button and say "hey I want to be Evil sith ftw!".
yep, also there is no reason why they cannot balance the other races/classes to compete with jedi/sith.
there were non-jedi in the original KOTOR that were bad asses and could compete with jedi.
Anyone who could cpmpete with a Jedi was very rare. Having other classes will likely just make Jedi/Sith more average then they should be. Also most people will be playing Jedi/Sith if the NGE is any indication so it's somewhat pointless to a few bounter hunters, a few smugglers, and then a tun of Jedi and Sith. IMO you either have Jedi/Sith or you have the rest of the classes by themselves. To me it's a no brainer in Star Wars to go with the Jedi/Sith IMO.
I disagree, I don't think that it's pointless.
The game has to provide a wide range of experiences to players, not just attacking things with force powers and a light saber...if people who could compete with jedi were rare, then make the player characters THOSE people...I mean, you are playing a game so that you can feel like you are powerful right? You're not playing it so that you can feel like you're stormtrooper TK-421. Make the player bounty hunters able to compete with jedi, make gunslingers dangerous foes...and remember, not all jedi were these ridiculously powerful forces of nature, just look at the battle in episode two where tons of jedi were shot down by droids...DROIDS!! It's not as though all jedi are these super human unstopable wrecking machines like we see in Darth Revan...those types of jedi and sith are rare.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Did you play KOTR???
and forget starting out as light / dark. You start out as neutral (alignment) like most all bioware titles. Roleplay should be making decisions dynamically not clicking on a little button and say "hey I want to be Evil sith ftw!".
yep, also there is no reason why they cannot balance the other races/classes to compete with jedi/sith.
there were non-jedi in the original KOTOR that were bad asses and could compete with jedi.
Anyone who could cpmpete with a Jedi was very rare. Having other classes will likely just make Jedi/Sith more average then they should be. Also most people will be playing Jedi/Sith if the NGE is any indication so it's somewhat pointless to a few bounter hunters, a few smugglers, and then a tun of Jedi and Sith. IMO you either have Jedi/Sith or you have the rest of the classes by themselves. To me it's a no brainer in Star Wars to go with the Jedi/Sith IMO.
I disagree, I don't think that it's pointless.
The game has to provide a wide range of experiences to players, not just attacking things with force powers and a light saber...if people who could compete with jedi were rare, then make the player characters THOSE people...I mean, you are playing a game so that you can feel like you are powerful right? You're not playing it so that you can feel like you're stormtrooper TK-421. Make the player bounty hunters able to compete with jedi, make gunslingers dangerous foes...and remember, not all jedi were these ridiculously powerful forces of nature, just look at the battle in episode two where tons of jedi were shot down by droids...DROIDS!! It's not as though all jedi are these super human unstopable wrecking machines like we see in Darth Revan...those types of jedi and sith are rare.
There is still the issue that most people are going to play a Jedi or Sith even if there could be some balance here. It wouldn't be much fun seeing a few of one class, but many of another running around. I doesn't make much sense.
Any Jedi that were killed by Droids were likely outnumbered by a large amount. Aside from bounty hunters I doubt there were many who could stand up to a Jedi so that leaves all the other classes out for the most part.
As for having variety other then having dividing the Jedi/Sith up into multiple classes for more options you will have a large assortment of crafting skills that both can learn I'm sure. There is your variety.
Did you play KOTR???
and forget starting out as light / dark. You start out as neutral (alignment) like most all bioware titles. Roleplay should be making decisions dynamically not clicking on a little button and say "hey I want to be Evil sith ftw!".
yep, also there is no reason why they cannot balance the other races/classes to compete with jedi/sith.
there were non-jedi in the original KOTOR that were bad asses and could compete with jedi.
Anyone who could cpmpete with a Jedi was very rare. Having other classes will likely just make Jedi/Sith more average then they should be. Also most people will be playing Jedi/Sith if the NGE is any indication so it's somewhat pointless to a few bounter hunters, a few smugglers, and then a tun of Jedi and Sith. IMO you either have Jedi/Sith or you have the rest of the classes by themselves. To me it's a no brainer in Star Wars to go with the Jedi/Sith IMO.
I disagree, I don't think that it's pointless.
The game has to provide a wide range of experiences to players, not just attacking things with force powers and a light saber...if people who could compete with jedi were rare, then make the player characters THOSE people...I mean, you are playing a game so that you can feel like you are powerful right? You're not playing it so that you can feel like you're stormtrooper TK-421. Make the player bounty hunters able to compete with jedi, make gunslingers dangerous foes...and remember, not all jedi were these ridiculously powerful forces of nature, just look at the battle in episode two where tons of jedi were shot down by droids...DROIDS!! It's not as though all jedi are these super human unstopable wrecking machines like we see in Darth Revan...those types of jedi and sith are rare.
There is still the issue that most people are going to play a Jedi or Sith even if there could be some balance here. It wouldn't be much fun seeing a few of one class, but many of another running around. I doesn't make much sense.
Any Jedi that were killed by Droids were likely outnumbered by a large amount. Aside from bounty hunters I doubt there were many who could stand up to a Jedi so that leaves all the other classes out for the most part.
As for having variety other then having dividing the Jedi/Sith up into multiple classes for more options you will have a large assortment of crafting skills that both can learn I'm sure. There is your variety.
So you're saying that since most people will play jedi and sith that they shouldn't even bother with the other classes? This timeline has a race known as the mandalorians in it...The mandalorians fought a war with the jedi in the Old Republic...I think that they can hold their own and would be a very attractive player class, the Mandalorian soldier or commando would appeal to a massive audience as soon as they mentioned the name "Boba Fett" If you don't know the lore behind this, go and look it up...Basically Jango Fett was adopted by a Mandalorian and that's why he wears the armor that he does...Obviously Jango and Boba are in a different timeline, but just a mention of the name by Bioware to give players an idea of who the Mandalorians are will spark many peopel to want to play as one.
I don't think that it's smart to limit player classes just because you assume that 90% of players will want to be jedi...I know that a majority WILL be jedi, but that doesn't mean that they should skimp out on other classes that people would like to play.
I like the idea of having variety among sith and jedi characters, but why not have as much variety as you can while still maintaining balance? Variety among jedi really just means lightsaber vs force wielder as far as combat classes go, and then you have sith vs light side, so that's really only four different classes of characters...an MMO these days NEEDS to have more, you can't have a AAA mmo title with only four classes.
besides all of this, one of the job applications on Bioware's site indicate that I'm right here anyway...The requirements listed for the job are, among other things "knowledge of complex class balancing for a next generation AAA MMO title"
I don't think that four classes constitutes complex class balancing.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I hope the graphics look like Mass Effect and not that new Clone Wars MovieI. I know the last 2 kotor had auto attack but I hope it has real time combat at least with normal attacks.