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EVE and the reality #1
sm0kingk1lls
Member Posts: 6
CCP maintain a state of censoring as much negative press about the game as they possibly can so this article is designed to give you a true appraisal of what eve is actually like. EVE does have a lot of points of merit such as sandbox gameplay, single instance and unique training methods but today we look at some popular topics and you get at least my opinion to weigh against the fanboi "eve can do no wrong" and the 2 week old "he killed my ship this game sux"
PVP:
EVE's pvp has been much heralded and one of the attractions to many of the more hardcore gamers is that the smart will succeed at the expense of the stupid., however things have changed. One of the most critical changes was the extent to which $:isk trading is allowed. Most new players these days take advantage of CCP's official buy your way in game system. Several of the biggest ships in game were bought by people for tens of thousands of dollars rather than actually putting ingame effort into getting them. While you cant (and if you do its envy) blame these people for doing it, you have to ask if thats the kind of game you want to play, would you play pool with someone who can just pay to have balls potted on their turn?
There are essentially two forms of pvp in eve. The first involves finding weaker targets than yourself to kill for ego or financial reasons. The second involves bringing enough friends to outnumber someone of equal strength. The sad result is there is very little skill in pvp. Yes there is ship fitting and yours may be a great a setup but the application is that you can fly a junk ship and still win fights because your either going to attack someone who isn't pvp ready (read has an npc ship aka belt/suicide ganking) or your going to outnumber your enemy so heavily as long as your ship isn't trying to mine while it should be fighting your sides going to win, not to mention that the performance of the game in big fights is so bad that it often boils down to who's lucky enough to not keep jumping across the screen lagged out and actually able to fire there weapons at all.
In eve's current form the only skill in pvp is at alliance leadership level (read knowing when to fight and when to run) so as you can see quite a shallow experience especially for you who will 99.9% not ever be involved in this. This lead eve's smartest and finest to invest heavily in meta gaming (see google) most large active alliances have members who access your out of game communication sources (forums etc) without authorization, you can think of it as hacking but technically its not apparently. even to the extent where ts/vent servers get DNS attacks to stop you playing when your fighting an enemy.
This means your going to be used as a disposable asset to someone else's game. If you join one of the bigger entities in eve you will be fed endless propaganda about how great you are by being a part of this great entity but the truth is your there as long as your helping make the leaders of said organization very rich. EVE is founded on the efforts of the little guy run off with by the leadership as soon as things get tough. Many mortgages were paid for by this game as leaders syphoned of assets and ebayed them.
So why not start your own outfit? Because you will never ever get a foothold. EVE relies on numbers not skill. There are four power blocs in eve. BOB, Goonswarm, red alliance, and the northern nap bloc. All of these groups have been in the game since very early in its inception, they change names/composition occasionally as an alliance closes and some directors take all the assets for themselves and reform under a new name but no new entity has ever formed and become a contender in the game. Goonswarm were a late entry but they were not founded in the game they were an exclusive community that joined the game together. Trying to contend with these entities would require finances you will never achieve. These guys were around when you could jump through gates to magically double your cargo, win isk printing machines (read exclusive crafting rights), set a skill training just before DT and log in to see it completed, farm NPC's that spawned to often. EVE has long since been tightened up but your opposition made insane amounts of progress in game you will never get the chance to as CCP while even aware of the old exploits follow a line of stop it happening again and keep it quiet. Moreover they use this huge headstart to keep you from ever catching up. Skillpoints is not the grind in eve, in game currency is and its protected as much as possible to keep you out.
So some will say well just ignore the big alliance stuff if its really that bad. And here we go back to the first style of pvp. If your not attacking big alliances your left with 'noobs' and 'carebears' to fulfill your gaming experience. A real challenge. Some very skilled pvp'ers have tried to be entities which fight purely for the pleasure of the experience and improving their prowess at it such as a group called outbreak. They eventually hit the block where they could do nothing but turn up to huge laggy fights and compete to see who could actually load there screen to play first. Needless to say they all got bored of it and in any noticeable capacity don't exist any longer.
There's just a few reason why its not all its touted to be and we haven't even looked at such things like having to wait 3 hrs to get a 20m fight, the failure of factional warfare, shooting inanimate objects. But as you can see if things are this bad your probably going to want to spend more time with the PVE content and if that's the case EVE is not the game to play.
Comments
well it seems pretty biased to me as someone who... doesn't like PvP. What MMO doesn't favor numbers? I'm sorry its not twitch combat but I enjoy the little PvP I engage in. I've spent time in deep 0.0 with an alliance that hadn't been around for a long time. of course that was about 2 years ago, but we had a lot of fun in 0.0 and owned some space.
The PvP is deep and interesting, with meaning. I don't mean that you are "wrong" as this is your opinion, I just disagree with most of what you say.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
There is some skill involved in how you fly your ship, taking advantage of angles and max range and whatnot.. And there is lots of strategy involved..
But yea, it's not an intense player skill based game.. If we had the same game, but with manual flight/aim.. now that would be extremely fun.
Maybe BP.. JG:EVO is going to be more wow-like than eve-like unfortunately, from what the info they have about it says.
please elaborate.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I can make a comment on the meaningfulness of PvP in EVE. EVE is one of very few games where winning PvP actually changes the game. In some games you win PvP and you get honor points or bragging rights. In EVE (as well as in Lineage 2, maybe one or 2 others) winning PvP brings about a change in ownership of a system. This refers to PvP at its hightest level of course, but I will argue that ALL PvP potentially contributes to these system altering PvP events.
Perhaps deep and meaningful are too subjective to have any meaning beyond the individual, but changing the landscape of a game, that is an awesome thing, IMO.
please elaborate.
Ahh you've highlighted one of my mistakes. "I think the PvP is deep and interesting, with meaning" is what I meant.
I think it is deep because it isn't a progression of power. in most games you get bigger higher damage equipment, higher armor gear and you win. in EVE its about smaller ships and bigger ships filling different roles. a little blaster frig can't match the sheer power of a battle ship, but they can tackle, and destroyers deal with those. I don't want to call it rock paper scissors because rock doesn't beat scissors, it just webs/jams scissors while something else beats it into submission.
I think its interesting because I can fill many of these different roles without re-rolling. I love blaster frigs, I love moving fast, but I also love big slow missile boats. I even enjoy EWar though less than the other parts. there are many different things I can do on a day to day basis just within PvP. In WoW All I could do was heal people, and die quickly. my priests didn't get better runspeed, warriors didn't have a reduced chance to hit me because I die quickly, they just bashed my face in unless my team had them perma-snared, which is just plain unbalanced for them.
And meaning? well I think there is meaning to it because all the rest of the game is effected by it. PvP losses drive the market more than any other factor (losses to rats happen, but don't cause nearly as much damage). the shape of the EVE universe changes based on PvP. Lineage2 is effected a good deal by PvP wins and losses over castles, but not nearly as much as EVE is in 0.0, and even low sec space to a lesser extent.
I don't know of many other games that have PVP so deeply embedded into how the game works like EVE does, how it drives everything.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
well most people do market trading and other stuff in eve its not just about pvp eve has lots of things to do besides pvp you dead wrong about eve is about pvp i see other people trading and making money mining selling ships making money in many different ways eve has mix of everythin
.....
Completly biased and disagree with almost everything you said,first of all I almost stop reading after you said that CCP filters negative press... sorry but that's extremly wrong.Second ,please imput your "oppinion" when you actualy played the game,not form some stupid thread explaining what you think is like what.
Im going to take a huge guess that your a WoW player who tryed EVE,got killed afew times,never tryed low-sec pvp and went directly to alliance warfare aka blob warfare where it's mostly like RL,fleets enganging in slug fights.
Seriously come back when youve actualy played the game and dont make stupid comments.
Oh really?
So how about the removal of SHC as a community fansite after ISD got outed even resulting in a public apology from CCP after it was pointed out they weren't the ones providing the public with the information.
How about you compare eve-search to eve-o over a day and see the moderation of any negative posting.
How about you look into the time CCP ambiguously started threatening law suits because they didn't like there wikipedia page?
Sorry to shatter your bubble however but while i'm jaded and in a mood for shit posting a game going into decline, i've played the game for years and flown with the most elite corps/players in the game and have exploded everything around me since about 3hrs into the game when I moved to low sec. I'd like to give a hint about the type of player writing this post and that's why i've done so but this isn't about me it's about eve. Here are facts, if you disagree please try to refute them with contrary facts or even debate and you'll look less like a fanboi tit making wild speculations.
with meaning = taking space.
interesting and deep? maybe one of the posts past yours covered those. i really should've only highlighted those parts
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Completly biased and disagree with almost everything you said,first of all I almost stop reading after you said that CCP filters negative press... sorry but that's extremly wrong.Second ,please imput your "oppinion" when you actualy played the game,not form some stupid thread explaining what you think is like what.
Im going to take a huge guess that your a WoW player who tryed EVE,got killed afew times,never tryed low-sec pvp and went directly to alliance warfare aka blob warfare where it's mostly like RL,fleets enganging in slug fights.
Seriously come back when youve actualy played the game and dont make stupid comments.
i stopped reading when you said you don't believe ccp filters negative press. there are many NON-goon posts which were deleted wholesale to cover up ccp lies on eve-o.
take a sign.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Oh really?
So how about the removal of SHC as a community fansite after ISD got outed even resulting in a public apology from CCP after it was pointed out they weren't the ones providing the public with the information.
How about you compare eve-search to eve-o over a day and see the moderation of any negative posting.
How about you look into the time CCP ambiguously started threatening law suits because they didn't like there wikipedia page?
Sorry to shatter your bubble however but while i'm jaded and in a mood for shit posting a game going into decline, i've played the game for years and flown with the most elite corps/players in the game and have exploded everything around me since about 3hrs into the game when I moved to low sec. I'd like to give a hint about the type of player writing this post and that's why i've done so but this isn't about me it's about eve. Here are facts, if you disagree please try to refute them with contrary facts or even debate and you'll look less like a fanboi tit making wild speculations.
don't hold your breath. the best you can hope for is, "they don't do it and i know they don't!" probably followed by something along the lines of, "i luv mah wubba!"
i don't even know what a wubba is.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
please elaborate.
Ahh you've highlighted one of my mistakes. "I think the PvP is deep and interesting, with meaning" is what I meant.
I think it is deep because it isn't a progression of power. in most games you get bigger higher damage equipment, higher armor gear and you win. in EVE its about smaller ships and bigger ships filling different roles. a little blaster frig can't match the sheer power of a battle ship, but they can tackle, and destroyers deal with those. I don't want to call it rock paper scissors because rock doesn't beat scissors, it just webs/jams scissors while something else beats it into submission.
I think its interesting because I can fill many of these different roles without re-rolling. I love blaster frigs, I love moving fast, but I also love big slow missile boats. I even enjoy EWar though less than the other parts. there are many different things I can do on a day to day basis just within PvP. In WoW All I could do was heal people, and die quickly. my priests didn't get better runspeed, warriors didn't have a reduced chance to hit me because I die quickly, they just bashed my face in unless my team had them perma-snared, which is just plain unbalanced for them.
And meaning? well I think there is meaning to it because all the rest of the game is effected by it. PvP losses drive the market more than any other factor (losses to rats happen, but don't cause nearly as much damage). the shape of the EVE universe changes based on PvP. Lineage2 is effected a good deal by PvP wins and losses over castles, but not nearly as much as EVE is in 0.0, and even low sec space to a lesser extent.
I don't know of many other games that have PVP so deeply embedded into how the game works like EVE does, how it drives everything.
good points. thanks for elaborating.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I wonder what people hope to accomplish by threads like this. Guy you act like we got 1000s of quality pvp MMOs to choose from. EVE is the only sandbox out there right now thats current. I have no where else to go to like many others.
Pretty much every MMO has some grind. In others its even worse. At least in EVE all I gotta do is come up with ISK to buy what I want. And this has a balance of sorts
I dont like the time based training at all. But again, there is nothing else out there thats sandboxy so no where else to go.
Even if I did agree with ya nothing I'm gonna do bout it for a long time if ever. No other sandbox MMOs out there yo
I might quit tho pretty soon to take a break. I thought you hit some good points here and there but it didnt mention the good points. Was kinda all doom and gloom you know. I keep saying ima take a break from MMOs soon tho especially since I spend little time in EVE lately.
Look mom, I'm in a pointless thread!
The OP's editorial has some points, but fails to convince me, for instance. Perhaps that is because I've been in an alliance that went from 'no presence, just established' to 'fighting against 5-to-1odds to keep a toehold in the North' to 'part of northern NAP bloc' to 'slow dissolvement'. I've seen how you can go from no-status into someone in a corp holding a station in crucial 0.0 area, in a respected alliance of the area.
So if this is 'impossible', then apparently I've done it. To quote Firefly: "...and that makes us mighty." And this was when I was a wee little n00blet.
That's just my own perspective on the OP's rant.
On general note, if you start from the assumption that a single player can't make a difference in EVE, and that everything is rigged by the big alliances, sure, you'll find plenty of stuff that supports your claim. Then again, if you're ready to set some new, larger goals, and work towards those goals, you can accomplish things this OP considers not possible.
There are 200 000 players in EVE. Being not one of the mass does require some work, but it's patently not impossible.
"Completly biased and disagree with almost everything you said,first of all I almost stop reading after you said that CCP filters negative press... sorry but that's extremly wrong.Second ,please imput your "oppinion" when you actualy played the game,not form some stupid thread explaining what you think is like what.
Im going to take a huge guess that your a WoW player who tryed EVE,got killed afew times,never tryed low-sec pvp and went directly to alliance warfare aka blob warfare where it's mostly like RL,fleets enganging in slug fights.
Seriously come back when youve actualy played the game and dont make stupid comments."
English got you down?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
I would be very interested to see some kind of proof for the statements Ive colored red from the OP. I know that its possible for those things to happen given the GTC system, but I would like to see some sort of proff that it actually has happened
I'm not an employee at CCP and I cant give you proof in the form of official numbers from a sales database which is the only thing that could really be called proof, I can direct you to evidence.
Selling GTC used to be social faux pas
Lets look at the first page of MMORPG
However for point two in several cases the players have freely admitted such behavior see here
In regard to the last point i'm too lazy to dig links out for this one and generally by far and large people have the smarts to not post on forums about this. However evesearch on krullz from CDI, hegemon rast from BNC. Theres just a couple openly taunted for there mortgage paying ways.
Umm, since GTC:s can only be traded for ingame time and isk, only CCP can really bring the cash out into RL from there. That would be how the system works, and is well documented. I'm sure many CCP employees are, correctly, paying their mortgages on wages they get from making and running the game, paid indirectly by both normal users and GTC buyers.
As for your two links, there seems to be something wrong with them, as one simply points to a newbie asking about GTC usage, and another points to the EVE-O forums Timecode Bazaar, aka timecode selling area of their forums. Neither one really backs your suggestion, IMO.
Any 'social stigma' I have ever noticed towards ISK transactions is towards the illegal Real Money Trade, which is deeply frowned upon (with reason, I keep getting crappy spam from the farming/marketing bots!). It is also bannable and should, IMO, also be legally actionable.
Your wording shows your own bias, there is no rant here merely criticism.
Your very first sentence only reinforces what I mention, you went north and got kicked out. And that's in the north a piece of space no-ones cared about from the GNW to RA's let steal all the prom moons. You couldn't compete, you didn't contend. You don't mention which alliance you were part of so its hard to give a more insightful appraisal of your achievements, i'm guessing TRI? how was that CVA campaign?. But your own description of your attempts is comparable to sticking a pos in reinforced, its easy enough to begin but to stay the course and in the example of this analogy turn up and finish it off is quite a different matter.
In regard to GTC, the limitations of GTC selling are only very recently implemented and needless to say cashing out has many other methods none of which i'm going to give a guide to here as while in a system you can buy into I see no reason you shouldn't cash out, i'd personally rather neither were possible.
The links give examples of the attitude toward buying GTC ingame. IE that it's rampant and noobs not even out of their 14day free trial are already trying to do it. Like I said only CCP could provide actual facts and figures these are merely examples of attitudes.
If you'd like to review the changes of attitudes toward GTC selling use 'GTC seller' as your query in eve-search go back a year and further and see the scorn heaped upon such people then. To have missed it you must be quite a young character ingame as it was always a heated topic of debate.
you just mad because every one against you go home cry to mommy and then come back :P
.....
You have absolutely no idea of our corps reasons for moving out of the North, nor of the reasons for the decline of the alliance under which we flew before the move, and no, I have never been a member of a TRI corp. I will not elaborate further, since it will annoy you.
As for GTCs, yes, I remember the debate, and also remember it died an impotent death when 'OMGOMG EVE's Economy Doomsday' didn't materialize after all. At that time, I supported CCP's decision to go for GMT business, as I could not see any valid reason why they should not from a business standpoint. Rather them getting the money then a parasite company running off EULA violations and spamming my EVEmail daily.
Oh really?
So how about the removal of SHC as a community fansite after ISD got outed even resulting in a public apology from CCP after it was pointed out they weren't the ones providing the public with the information.
How about you compare eve-search to eve-o over a day and see the moderation of any negative posting.
How about you look into the time CCP ambiguously started threatening law suits because they didn't like there wikipedia page?
Sorry to shatter your bubble however but while i'm jaded and in a mood for shit posting a game going into decline, i've played the game for years and flown with the most elite corps/players in the game and have exploded everything around me since about 3hrs into the game when I moved to low sec. I'd like to give a hint about the type of player writing this post and that's why i've done so but this isn't about me it's about eve. Here are facts, if you disagree please try to refute them with contrary facts or even debate and you'll look less like a fanboi tit making wild speculations.
What a misdirected rant. Just because you got burnt out on the game you take out your frustrations on the game and others when in reality you should just shut up and move on. the only thing I see here is ISK envy.
Nothing wrong with Eve, it is not for everyone, those who play it, enjoy it.
Pliz stop crying kid, go play wow or something. Just because in this game it take time to build something big ( a good) alliance for example. Doesnt mean you cna start one, just start in empire, make a name for yourself as a merc corp, get a few nice kills then merge with other mercs, epurate the corp from crying kids liek you and potential spies. Start an alliance, dont need 2k players at that point, assault one of the minor less liekd alliances that hold some turf. Once you got turf start recruiting with a buffer corp, finding ppl that hate BOB and GOON shouldn't be too hard.
You menting out of game attacks, in this game winning actually means something to many players, if you lets your ts servs/ forums open othe alliances will attack them during big wars. But we are talking about the most hardcore players here, the same kind of guys that'd gank in other games. If your not ready to do a lot to win eve 0.0 fighting is not for you. O and that eve relies on numbers talk isnt fully true some merc corps are makign a huge difference during alliance wars backstabbing and attacking supply routes used by alliances.
About gtc selling, tis not liek money is that much of an issue in this game, you cna make billions with a decent mining op system
If you dont like pvp either dont play this game or stay in empire. Bs reviews like yours dont mean anything.
Btw for the whiners in need of pvp like you the empyrean age expansion came out a few weeks ago. O and btw only goons run around yelling what corp they are from most corps tell their members not to talk too much with their main account or to say what alliance they are in to avoid wd spam.
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
Oh really?
So how about the removal of SHC as a community fansite after ISD got outed even resulting in a public apology from CCP after it was pointed out they weren't the ones providing the public with the information.
How about you compare eve-search to eve-o over a day and see the moderation of any negative posting.
How about you look into the time CCP ambiguously started threatening law suits because they didn't like there wikipedia page?
Sorry to shatter your bubble however but while i'm jaded and in a mood for shit posting a game going into decline, i've played the game for years and flown with the most elite corps/players in the game and have exploded everything around me since about 3hrs into the game when I moved to low sec. I'd like to give a hint about the type of player writing this post and that's why i've done so but this isn't about me it's about eve. Here are facts, if you disagree please try to refute them with contrary facts or even debate and you'll look less like a fanboi tit making wild speculations.
This is truly funny! You're demaning facts? When you yourself have provided nothing even close to resembling one so far?
Just give it up, all you're proving is that you're upset for some reason and have nothing better to do but bash EVE.
Why not use your time for something constructive instead?
@Finwolven What an ignorant assumption, just because you haven't stated who you flew with dosen't mean for a minute I don't know about you and your dirty laundry, i'm very well informed thanks.
You clearly you don't remember the debate as eves economy never had anything to do with it, it was to do with avoiding the effort others were investing by using a method to circumvent what was a much touted feature of eve, that being the harsh death penalty and how negating that completely removed the ability to impact groups most especially non-space holding entities.
@Ozmodan CCP has proved on multiple occasions the only method of encouraging them to address problems is air in public their failings. Why should I shut up and move on? Because discussion may bring change and change may bring an improvement?
@beaverz Yes thats what you'd like to believe lets take some case examples. TRI, skilled and powerful, assaults CVA, is blobbed out by Goon assistance. SMASHKILL, noobish but with determination, assaults drone regions, is blobbed out by RA subgroups and then gets kicked out its space by Goon's. So sure please feel free to give examples of any new entity taking space and defending it once its owners begin to reclaim it, or any mercenary outfit with a name for itself, hell even MC started to fabricate contracts (vs big blue, note: back to killing noobs when your outblobbed elsewhere again)
Supply chains being attacked by mercenaries lol which eve do you play? can I subscribe to eve sans jump bridges, jump freighters and jump portals? Even CCP has stated that the game has gone to portals to the castle keep. As for empyrean age yes that worked out really well, two blobs on either side of the tama, nouv gate.
Anyway the trolls are here, clearly recognizable by the fact they can't argue the points debated only sling shit and name call. Along with the fanbois who will here no ill word spoken vs their product of choice. But we'll wait patiently for people to offer reasoned debate and respond as it appears