Totaly random on how to unlock jedi 1 jedi per 500 character per server allowed. Perma death and skill loss. That should keep them at bay....
I think this idea is great personally but imagine there are 1000's of players that would moan to hell that 'their guild has only had 1 unlock this year and so so's guild has had 3' etc etc. Developers would cave in and the Jedi would be a problem again. I realise I've been exposed to WoW but feel realistically most of the gaming community is too self centred to accept 'random.'
Put yourself in the shoes of the developers during the creation of SWG for a moment. You are discussing how to put Jedi in the game and are given carte blanche on how to implement it. As you are brainstorming several problems present themselves.
1) No Jedi: Nothing to grind for. Player Jedi are non-existent. Canon is absolutely preserved. Bad from a marketing point of view. 2) Alpha Class: Very long grueling grind to achieve Jedi. Rarity somewhat high and canon is more or less preserved. The Jedi are powerful. Bad from a marketing point of view. 3) Easy Jedi/Starter: Simple Jedi attainment, rarity is low and canon is not preserved. The strength of the Jedi is lowered for balance issues. Good from a marketing point of view.
It seems to me that developing Jedi for this game was doomed for failure. How do you make the game marketable without shredding canon to pieces and ending up with Jedi running rough-shod over the galaxy during a time when the central tenant of the story says they are almost extinct. I can only come to one conclusion. You must either say to hell with Canon, or to hell with Jedi.
I would like your opinions on how you would have implemented it if you were in charge.
First a few comments on your choices...
1) with no jedi at all, it is not completely star wars as there have always been some jedi no matter what time period it was in....Jedi are such a huge part of star wars (almost if not completely the face of star wars as most of the story is based around jedi...and that's any version of games, movies or books). So not having jedi at all is the worst marketing move of all and fans of star wars won't like it. It's ok to have a star wars game where no jedi are in it as a playable class if it's a stand alone game...but for an online game that you have to put years a of your playing time into, you need jedi in it as a playable class as all the younger generations really know about star wars typically starts and ends with jedi....you don't think some 12 year old is concerned about the politics and fate of the galactic senate do you...no, they go aww for the lightsaber, the force powers, the action...etc.
2.) this would not be bad for marketing....as I said in choice 1, jedi will greatly sale any star wars game. The fact they would be an alpha class is only a problem for older gamers because of our understanding of star wars....for the younger players, they don't fully understand (maybe not even care) the meaning of why the rebels and the empire are at war....why planets are oppressed...why or how jedi struggle between the dark side or the light side....they care about action, killing, great graphics, fast paced gameplay and whatever else they feel makes it fun. Content, story and canon is for us adults. So I think you can have an alpha class if you want but if so, then it's got to be beyond difficult to get a jedi and remain difficult to keep it....marketing would not suffer at all.
3) Now marketing will suffer with this option as it's already been proven by the state of swg now. when jedi where not in the game but could be unlocked and when jedi started becoming unlocked, the game was great. When they started listening to players and trying to please everyone and going through all their other internal problems in the company, that's when the game got bad and remained bad....you can't give away SWG now...so yeah, marketing point of view, the game is dead....I don't care how many people try to say it isn't....when I played for 3 years, the servers were packed 24/7.....now they are ghost towns.....even with or without jedi, that sucks for a star wars point of view....
Now as far as jedi, canon and the story or whatever, the problem isn't jedi. The problem is like I said before is that jedi are practically the face of star wars. Sure you might have Han or some other non jedi on the front cover of a game or movie, but when it comes down to it, the bulk of what goes on involves jedi and that is in nearly every movie to date.....although they tried to limit jedi in one of the movies and it ended up being the most hated one of the 6.
So to have an online game based on star wars, you really need jedi and having them will only boost sales while not having them won't necessarily make the game unsuccessful, but certainly it won't be as successful as if you have jedi in it. The reason I can say that is the proof is there....there are so many jedi running around because that's what majority of players want to be, a jedi. Having the ability to play multiple characters, nearly everyone is gonna have a jedi right along with their normal class...but if 100,000 players all decide to play their jedi at the same time, then that's what you will see. If they all decide to play a normal class at the same time then that is what you will see. YOu can't truly control jedi or any professions or classes in a game and the amount of them you see. So forget trying to police the visibility of jedi. People don't want to pay a monthly subscription to only be told that they cannot play with other people with the class/profession they love the most out of star wars. I know jedi is my favorite part of star wars....and forcing me to play it in the shadows away from other players kills the point of being a jedi in "A GAME".....
So like I said in another post today, my option would be to make different servers so that players who don't care about lots of jedi running around can play on a server where there are no restrictions on jedi. Players who would rather have jedi limited in number or keep their visibility low can choose to play on a server where jedi are limited. You can have the same version of the game on all the servers but just have an option a dev can choose to turn on or off as they see fit (maybe with other options as well) and they can then just go.....
server 1 is limited to no jedi
server 2 is limited to x number of jedi (maybe even use a formula of some kind to determine the amount)
server 3 is no restrictions on jedi
and also you can have say 4 servers for each type of jedi in the beginning, then based on how many players there actually are subscribing and playiing each type of server, you can then alter which servers get which restriction on jedi.
Say more people are playing on the no restrictions jedi server.....while out of the 4 no jedi servers, only 2 servers are being used enough to warrant the existance of them....well then you can convert the 4th server to one of the other server options. That way you won't end up not having enough server space for the jedi option that people like the most. Also, you can simply just keep 4 of each type of server and just add a new server for the one that needs another server.
BAsically I get this idea from a cabal online somewhat. That game has 2 servers and 20 channels for each server (which for all I know are servers themselves, I don't really know). On a server, you have a channel dedicated for novices, one for trading and selling, 3 or 4 premium channels for paying players, 1 channel for war and the rest are regular channels for free or paying customers.
The war channel is the only channel you can actively pvp in without suffering great penalties. You can player kill (PK) someone on the other channels (whhich is just killing them without their consent) but eventually after 3 or 4 PK's you will lose so much honor and suffer other penalties it's not really worth PK'ing too much. On some channels you can't even PK anyone at all though.
As far as I know all the channels run the same version of the game, but obviously the developers have some way of restricting PVP on each channel if they so choose. So I say take it a step further and for a star wars jedi issue, modify that option so that you can control the amount of jedi for a server.
There you have it....those that can care less about cannon, can play on the no restrictions jedi servers and those who hate seeing jedi can play on the no jedi or limited jedi servers.
As for being an alpha class....that's tricky....I'm not really sure if that's good or not....I had no problem with it either way when swg had them as alpha classes or starting classes as I just loved playing jedi period. Although I will admit I did like the powerful feeling of being an alpha class....not for pvp though as I don't really like pvp in any game unless it's fully twitched based where it's all about the actual players read and recognition skills not who has the better items equipped and can use the right move at the right time....games that use D&D style rules for pvp are more of chess to me rather than actual pvp. For pve though, there wasn't a whole lot of difference between being an alpha class jedi or a normal class jedi except bosses and tough dungeons. So jedi were weaker as starter professions but that did not change the fun I had in PVE with them....it only increased the difficulty of playing with them a small bit.
Overall, Jedi have to be part of any online based star wars game....for a standalone game, it don't matter....I mean I play republic commando and don't miss being a jedi in that game at all...but no one woule complain about that game because the concept is that you playing elite storm (clone) troopers.....and your only witnessing the star wars universe from that perspective. in an online game though, you are supposed to be witnessing a whole galaxy and nothing that is a part of that galaxy should be left out...especially when it's a huge part of the overall story.
Also, I think people fail to realize that no game can ever be fully committed to the timeline it's made in because in order for a game to remain a game and be fun, you have to stretch the limits of some things. YOu have to allow some things that aren't possible in the real timeline. If you don't, then you end up with a game that is, well like the current SWG....something majority of gamers don't even bother playing anymore.
You people just dont get it. The reason why SWG was changed was because it had no jedi element in the game. You people saying that the game would be better without them are people who dont want to play jedi and you failed to keep SWG afloat. Star Wars MMO should and always foremost have JEDI in the game. Jedi's arn't gods they can be killled and they arn't all powerful they just have a differant skill set. And yes i understand the timeline which is where SOE and the creators of SWG failed. You dont make a star wars game in a timeline where the jedi are all but extinct. You fan boi's n gurls go nuts and say OMG jedi arnt in this timeline your ruining our game. If you hate the game so bad for having jedi get a contract from lucas and make your own otherwise let it go.
I disagree totally in this sentence. The new star wars is all about jedi. But the star wars i grew up with, jedi was a subplot. I beleive a game without jedi would have been 10x more exciting, and less alpha classes are always good. Alpha classes cannot be balanced with the rest. This was a move by LA marketing to entice more players. BE A JEDI! Bleh.
Again, I totally agree with you Miagisan!
When I was growing up a lot of kids wanted to be Han more then Luke.
agree?? what movies were you guys watching? i remember the whole starwars trilogy being about a jedi saving teh galaxiy. yeah it had other things in it liek smugglers and wookies. but i know who the main character was and what his skills were about. i know who the main villains were and what they were about too.
You people just dont get it. The reason why SWG was changed was because it had no jedi element in the game. You people saying that the game would be better without them are people who dont want to play jedi and you failed to keep SWG afloat. Star Wars MMO should and always foremost have JEDI in the game. Jedi's arn't gods they can be killled and they arn't all powerful they just have a differant skill set. And yes i understand the timeline which is where SOE and the creators of SWG failed. You dont make a star wars game in a timeline where the jedi are all but extinct. You fan boi's n gurls go nuts and say OMG jedi arnt in this timeline your ruining our game. If you hate the game so bad for having jedi get a contract from lucas and make your own otherwise let it go.
I disagree totally in this sentence. The new star wars is all about jedi. But the star wars i grew up with, jedi was a subplot. I beleive a game without jedi would have been 10x more exciting, and less alpha classes are always good. Alpha classes cannot be balanced with the rest. This was a move by LA marketing to entice more players. BE A JEDI! Bleh.
Again, I totally agree with you Miagisan!
When I was growing up a lot of kids wanted to be Han more then Luke.
agree?? what movies were you guys watching? i remember the whole starwars trilogy being about a jedi saving teh galaxiy. yeah it had other things in it liek smugglers and wookies. but i know who the main character was and what his skills were about. i know who the main villains were and what they were about too.
Just to clarify I was agreeing with Miagisan on the highlighted comment. I think the SW universe is quite complex and deep enough that it doesn't have to be all about Jedi. As a matter of fact I believe the new SW T.V. series is focused on a bounty hunter.
But still, I can understand what Miagisan is saying in regards to Jedi being a sub-plot. I guess it can be argued that the GCW really is the over-riding plot of the story. I'm not sure how I feel about this yet but this would make an interesting conversation.
Thanks for the replies guys. After reading through all of this I have decided I may have been wrong to call Alpha Class bad for marketing. I was basing this assumption on the sheer level of complaints because of it (concerning perma-death, TEFs and Bounty Hunters).
Still, an Alpha Class brings major problems to the table concerning game balance in the long run. The Random Jedi idea posted may indeed keep numbers in check and may also be the only realistic way to keep an Alpha Class in check. Ofcourse, there would be a lot of bickering over it, but there probably will be no matter what system is implemented lol.
"If you don't take care of your customers somebody else will."
I would have not had Jedi as an actual profession, but allowed players to have Force skills that would primarily enhance their other skills. I would also allowed players to gain some of the force poweres and even lightsabers, if they chose to, but these more Jedi-ish abilities would have caused the player to gain a public TEF, along with BH visibility. It would depend on how powerful the abilities were as implemented (I wouldn't really make them any more powerful than a normal full templated combat character), but there could be a possibility of some sort of penealty for getting killed while playing pretend Jedi. In my ideal system, nobody would have ever been an actual Jedi, but they could have had some of the powers and pretended to be, which would have fit the timeline.
I like this idea, but I am not sure if the fans would have wnet for it. I, however, would have loved such a system!
Pre-Publish 9 in the Pre-CU days had the basic idea for implementing Jedi right (for most parts).
* A Jedi Knight or Master (not a wet-behind-the-ears Padawan) would be very, very potent. Should be able to take down a few non-Jedi players down with savvy play.
* Leave the diversity of the Jedi skillbox/skilltrees, but some needed to be made more useful to allow a larger variety of builds.
* Permadeath. x3 deaths (PvE or PvP), and that Jedi character is gone. Forever. Reroll a normal character.
* Retain visibility system but more danger. Retain prospect of opportunistic, cunning Bounty Hunters trying to get Jedi. Actually implement the chance of Darth Vader hunting the Jedi down with his personal army of Imperial forces.
This system would do several things:
Actually allow Jedi in the game but the visibility and Permadeath will keep them in check. IMO, a fair balance with gameplay and continuity.
It would mean Jedi would be truly something special, not a "dime a dozen" like they later were or in the Prequel movies. A Jedi showing himself for combat is a momentous occasion, but risks the full wrath of the Empire.
You will no longer see the travesty of having more Jedi onscreen than you would Stormtroopers or Rebel infantry.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Pre-Publish 9 in the Pre-CU days had the basic idea for implementing Jedi right (for most parts). * A Jedi Knight or Master (not a wet-behind-the-ears Padawan) would be very, very potent. Should be able to take down a few non-Jedi players down with savvy play. * Leave the diversity of the Jedi skillbox/skilltrees, but some needed to be made more useful to allow a larger variety of builds. * Permadeath. x3 deaths (PvE or PvP), and that Jedi character is gone. Forever. Reroll a normal character. * Retain visibility system but more danger. Retain prospect of opportunistic, cunning Bounty Hunters trying to get Jedi. Actually implement the chance of Darth Vader hunting the Jedi down with his personal army of Imperial forces. This system would do several things: Actually allow Jedi in the game but the visibility and Permadeath will keep them in check. IMO, a fair balance with gameplay and continuity. It would mean Jedi would be truly something special, not a "dime a dozen" like they later were or in the Prequel movies. A Jedi showing himself for combat is a momentous occasion, but risks the full wrath of the Empire. You will no longer see the travesty of having more Jedi onscreen than you would Stormtroopers or Rebel infantry.
That would have been cool. If I recall correctly I thought some of the jedi loudly complained 3 deaths was unfair because the might go LD etc. and they complained about visibility because they said it kept them from grouping with their friends in a mmorpg...
Not agreeing, those are just some of the arguments I remember.
The issue I had with Jedi in the game, the quest to become a Jedi BECAME the game.
My the system would be100% random like a lottery. For simplicity sake, say a server could have 10 Jedi. With a scaled perma-death system, as one toon dies , a spot opens up and a random person is chosen for an unlock slot. They can I either choose to take the slot, not take the slot and wait for another random chance or keep the slot as a non Jedi toon but be removed from the random selection process altogether. Also upon death, the Jedi slot could be converted to a regular character slot, but again the player would be removed from the random selection.
My approach would have allowed Jedi as an alpha class, maybe even more powerful then what they were Pre NGE, but only as they reached higher ranks, Knight and Master etc, But with great risk and required activity in both PvE and PvP as the character advances.
I also would include:
Experience decay/skill decay with inactivity
Limited inventory and space and restrictions on what items a Jedi could posses
Limit on the amount of credits a Jedi could hold.
Master/Padawan system
Distinct Dark Side path.
By removing any influence an individual player has on becoming a Jedi it would alleviate a lot of what I found wrong with the game as a whole, the grind for Jedi consuming a large portion of the playerbase. It would also keep Jedi rare and hidden, and only those truly committed to playing a Jedi the “correct” way would stand a chance on keeping them alive for a long period of time and achieving the higher ranks and the increased power that goes along with them.
IMHO this is the most fair and balanced way to have an alpha class like Jedi in an MMO.
My the system would be100% random like a lottery. For simplicity sake, say a server could have 10 Jedi. With a scaled perma-death system, as one toon dies , a spot opens up and a random person is chosen for an unlock slot. They can I either choose to take the slot, not take the slot and wait for another random chance or keep the slot as a non Jedi toon but be removed from the random selection process altogether. Also upon death, the Jedi slot could be converted to a regular character slot, but again the player would be removed from the random selection. My approach would have allowed Jedi as an alpha class, maybe even more powerful then what they were Pre NGE, but only as they reached higher ranks, Knight and Master etc, But with great risk and required activity in both PvE and PvP as the character advances
My the system would be100% random like a lottery. For simplicity sake, say a server could have 10 Jedi. With a scaled perma-death system, as one toon dies , a spot opens up and a random person is chosen for an unlock slot. They can I either choose to take the slot, not take the slot and wait for another random chance or keep the slot as a non Jedi toon but be removed from the random selection process altogether. Also upon death, the Jedi slot could be converted to a regular character slot, but again the player would be removed from the random selection. My approach would have allowed Jedi as an alpha class, maybe even more powerful then what they were Pre NGE, but only as they reached higher ranks, Knight and Master etc, But with great risk and required activity in both PvE and PvP as the character advances
jedi was fine after pub 9 it gave us a great quest that you had to work with and support other players to do and jedi was the best quest reward ever. it was fine the way it was till the nge ruined it.
Of course the Jedi loved things after Publish 9.
* They bagan to hog up a disproportionately high amount of publish attention. They received several passes while certain non-Jedi professions never received a revamp.
* SOE, after Publish 9, began to remove all the safeguards on containing the Jedi population. Before Publish 9, you counted yourself as one of the lucky few who saw a Jedi in action. It was a moment to remember. After Publish 9, Jedi were EVERYWHERE, parading around in groups, dueling out in the open, etc.
* The Jedi population spun out of control. There were more Jedi onscreen than Stormtroopers. Jedi began to dominate the GCW/PvP scene. If you weren't a Jedi or Doctor, you were a hindrance in PvP.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Have a raffle every friday - include it in the, "Friday's Feature". Every account will have a "ticket" to become a "hero" of the Empire or the Rebellion. Therefore, this would be called, "Heroes of the Empire" for the Imperals and "Heroes of the Alliance" for Rebels. New wallpaper would be made for this new feature. Basically, every week you will be asked if you want to take part as a hero of the Empire or Rebellion. If you say "Yes" you will have the option of choosing the following heroes:
Alliance: Luke Skywalker, Princess Leia, Han Solo & Chewbacca
Empire: The Emperor, Darth Vader, Boba Fett
You are able to choose who you want your raffle to go for. So if you want to be Luke Skywalker, use your weekly raffle to become Luke Skywalker on your server. After the winners of the raffles are annouced, their raffle's are thrown out, but the loser's raffles stay in - meaning the person who puts the most raffles in over the longest period of time has the greatest amount of chance to win. To be fair to new-incoming people, raffles would reset after six months.
This would be the only way to play as a force-sensitive character. Every hero will have a unique set of abilities that would be super-alpha to the regular character - each being equal to each other, yet still being widely different.
This would give players more incentive to play ... if they knew they could become one of their favorite Star Wars heroes, I think it could have gathered up a lot of people and subscriptions would have gone up - and at the same time it would be chronologically (spelling?) correct.
I got an interesting idea. Have a raffle every friday - include it in the, "Friday's Feature". Every account will have a "ticket" to become a "hero" of the Empire or the Rebellion. Therefore, this would be called, "Heroes of the Empire" for the Imperals and "Heroes of the Alliance" for Rebels. New wallpaper would be made for this new feature. Basically, every week you will be asked if you want to take part as a hero of the Empire or Rebellion. If you say "Yes" you will have the option of choosing the following heroes: Alliance: Luke Skywalker, Princess Leia, Han Solo & Chewbacca Empire: The Emperor, Darth Vader, Boba Fett You are able to choose who you want your raffle to go for. So if you want to be Luke Skywalker, use your weekly raffle to become Luke Skywalker on your server. After the winners of the raffles are annouced, their raffle's are thrown out, but the loser's raffles stay in - meaning the person who puts the most raffles in over the longest period of time has the greatest amount of chance to win. To be fair to new-incoming people, raffles would reset after six months. This would be the only way to play as a force-sensitive character. Every hero will have a unique set of abilities that would be super-alpha to the regular character - each being equal to each other, yet still being widely different. This would give players more incentive to play ... if they knew they could become one of their favorite Star Wars heroes, I think it could have gathered up a lot of people and subscriptions would have gone up - and at the same time it would be chronologically (spelling?) correct.
actually that isn't a bad idea. randomly choose a certain number of accounts per week/month on each server and let them represent their faction in pvp.
No player Jedi, just Force Adepts. The restraining factors on FS characters are TEF, visibility, and loss of XP and skills. The road to Adept status runs thru the Village, where at least 4 branches must be filled before gaining access to Adept (essentially a "master" box).
There would be many Adept boxes, all different, at least one for every branch of Force skills. All Adept boxes would have one thing in common: lightsaber certification and maybe a saber-block special. Otherwise, sabers just use melee specials appropriate to their form factor: 1H, 2H, Polearm. Schematics to make sabers and saber crafting tools only come from filling the Force Crafting branches. There would only be one saber in each form factor, not "generations" of sabers. Saber construction uses Weaponsmith assembly and experimentation, the crafting tool uses Artisan skills.
The Force abilities and skills in the Force Adept box are all that you get, but their potency scales up as you gain "Jedi XP". The power of a saber depends on its original construction, the crystals/pearls in it, and the J-XP of the Adept using it. If you die, you lose a percentage of your J-XP (not a flat value, and it can't go negative). 3 deaths in the space of a week, and you lose the Adept box too; the underlying FS skills are not affected and you can't lose them except by surrendering them. You can also voluntarily drop an Adept box at a Force shrine, at a very minor cost in J-XP, and get a different Adept box at the Village.
I like the concept of the holo-grind as one way to open up a force sensitive slot. It's clever, time consuming and introduces some randomness but it's within your fate still. I wasn't aware it required you to master 6 professions though -- for some reason I thought it was only 2 (obviously I didn't unlock a jedi the old way.) I think that was the one downside since suddenly the sandbox becomes a race for grinding which I don't necessarily care for but again I think it was clever since the randomness assures that there will likely be a diverse set of professions always available for the economy during the grinds. It requires a lot of dedication and certainly insures that, in theory, there shouldn't be many jedi around (for a looong time you woud think.) I'd drop the number to 2 or 3 though. I think another, unrelated random element should open the force sensitive slot though. A key, based on your account and character created on a server that gets "called" periodically (based on constraints below). If you're logged in when the key trips (consider the lotto across ALL servers), the slot will open. Having the player logged insures that people just don't log in all of their characters once per period. Taking this one step further, it's possible that your key can be called but combined with a server you don't play on -- (therain93:starsider) may not be a match simply because my characters are created on 8 other servers. Yes, it's random but I think the frequency of an unlock would increase a bit.
Death
Jedi should die, absolutely. But, I think there should be second chances. First, death puts you on this road to a failed jedi (if you remember from the old p&p RPG). Consider the 4 tiers of skills from Pre CU. A master has all 4 rows filled. Upon death, the entire row of skills is lost. If you lose all 4, you become blue glowey and either can delete your jedi to start again or remain a blue glowey. For newbie jedi, that only have 1 row/tier, yes that can be a quick death. Don't monkey around! I'm not sure if the blue glowey should be anything special at this point. I think if you delete the jedi (due to death), the force sensitive slot should remain open only once otherwise you go back into the pool with everyone else and must unlock it again. Your account would get dropped from the lottery pool as well. Don't monkey around!
Population Control
I think the goal here would be to limit the number of Jedi at any one time but also create enough turnover (hence easing up the requirements for jedi but making death a bit harsher) so that people can have a shot at it eventually. TEFs -- brilliant. Most everyone should know it; if you show off your lightsaber or powers you get an immediate TEF and thus anyone can attack you. I would extend it further and say after the TEF your name goes into the Bounty Hunter Terminal and awareness to all Imperial forces increases. If you don't want pvp, you should be playing KoToR because this is a dynamic of the game. I would set a server limit based on population (and logins) that changes over a period (weekly?). X number of Force Sensitive slots can be open on the server (blue gloweys do not count against this) and lotto winners are not as well. Slots will never be deleted/restricted from logging in but if you're blue glowey and the total number of slots drops below the current population, you can't create a new jedi and must wait. I would age jedi's out of the system that don't login. It's one thing to be in hiding but you still have to show up ( ' ; Higher level Jedis will raise the awareness of the empire and become ever-increasingly the target of the empire. Prepare for Imperial ambushes and increased bounty hunter terminals occurrences. This is the price of being an alpha.
First of all, decide if Jedi will be playable or not. If they will be playable, then make it possible for anyone to play it - not just the first person who logs on to the server, not just the 50 people on the server, not just to someone who won it in a raffle - make it available for anyone and recognize that the "canon" is going to get trashed.
The "canon" arguments really piss me off. If you're a Star Wars Purist, don't come to the game. You're going to see a lot of things that will frazzle you (aliens in the Empire for example). You'll also see a lot of really stupid names. So just accept it that the game isn't going to be like the movies.
Secondly - It's okay if you're going to let BH's hunt Jedi, but don't punish people for wanting to be a Jedi by making them spent hundreds of hours by themselves in the middle of no where grinding xp. If you're trying to make it a living world, then you should be encouraging people to play in it.
Thirdly - I would have made it quest based. When you first start, the game would choose some quests - a couple of "easy", a couple of "medium" and some "hard". Then the world would be loaded with thousands of quests. All of this said, there would be hints in the game as to which quests you should run to unlock.
Although it wasnt obvious at the time and i did in fact grind 3 jedi 2 went ebay as I was a struggling student when I look back on things jedi truly was the begining of the end for SWG from day 1 of them being introduced everything then centered around them, classes that had been borked for ages or little promises such as pistoleer dual wield never making it live whilst jedi's got 2 revamp's and constant tweaks.
The economy went to hell as people hologrinded and a degree of the social interaction went as people chose to spend less time in groups or cantina's and more time aoe'n in the jonda cave to get that melee prof done in 2 days or afk at the blue leaf temple grinding a ranged prof.
And then came the Jedi grind itself and you friend of months just vanished you rareley saw him and even your best IG mates treat you with a degree of suspision that you only wanted to know there wareabouts to kill them.
For me they did kill there game and if that thing that must remain nameless suceeds I hope they leave them out altogether.
Although it wasnt obvious at the time and i did in fact grind 3 jedi 2 went ebay as I was a struggling student when I look back on things jedi truly was the begining of the end for SWG from day 1 of them being introduced everything then centered around them, classes that had been borked for ages or little promises such as pistoleer dual wield never making it live whilst jedi's got 2 revamp's and constant tweaks.
The economy went to hell as people hologrinded and a degree of the social interaction went as people chose to spend less time in groups or cantina's and more time aoe'n in the jonda cave to get that melee prof done in 2 days or afk at the blue leaf temple grinding a ranged prof. And then came the Jedi grind itself and you friend of months just vanished you rareley saw him and even your best IG mates treat you with a degree of suspision that you only wanted to know there wareabouts to kill them. For me they did kill there game and if that thing that must remain nameless suceeds I hope they leave them out altogether.
Same. The addition of the Jedi class did not help the game what so ever. Along with the expansions and the unwanted revamps, The Jedi profession kept taking alot of the effort that should have been focused on the core game and the professions that were in need of attention since day #1.
I wouldn't have mined force sensitivty skills/modifiers being available to all professions to add even more variety and depth, but the only in-game Jedi should have been kick-butt NPCs requiring a lot of teamwork and sacrifice (corpses littering the ground) to defeat.
My the system would be100% random like a lottery. For simplicity sake, say a server could have 10 Jedi. With a scaled perma-death system, as one toon dies , a spot opens up and a random person is chosen for an unlock slot. They can I either choose to take the slot, not take the slot and wait for another random chance or keep the slot as a non Jedi toon but be removed from the random selection process altogether. Also upon death, the Jedi slot could be converted to a regular character slot, but again the player would be removed from the random selection. My approach would have allowed Jedi as an alpha class, maybe even more powerful then what they were Pre NGE, but only as they reached higher ranks, Knight and Master etc, But with great risk and required activity in both PvE and PvP as the character advances
I would have run a lottery system based off a certain series of quests and skills. So if you did quest X, your character would count 5 out of (server population), get skill Y and you would count 10 out of (server population). Then you could continually increase your chance of getting picked, if you worked hard enough (like at Galactic Civil War style quests) but it would still be quite possible for an entertainer to have the chance.
Let's say you can have 100 jedi on a server and 10 Bounty Hunters. 50 Rebel, 50 Imperial and 10 Neutral.
So you log on one day and you get a message:
"Darth Vader wants to see you ... Immediately!" - You've got until XXXXX to reach Vader at this waypoint.
You show up and Vader asks if you would like to become a jedi. Which you would say:
"NO" - Lottery rolls again and another character is picked
"YES" - Your character is saved in its current state and you begin training as a jedi. The skills that you've already earned are eventually replaced by a super uber tree of Jedi skills ... with a catch.
There would be some kind of intense jedi training academy that was, essentially, a theme park like instance (Dagobah?). When you finished, you would have been asked to remove all your old skills and have used up about half of your skill allotment. But would be roughly "equal" to all the other combat classes in the game so you could walk out of there able to effectively defend yourself and you would get to choose between a list of cool names that were reserved at launch (Like Revan, Plagus, etc)
After the academy, Vader or Luke would periodically request your presence to assign you a mission. Once you took that mission, you were TEFd. There would be more and more missions, more frequently, the higher up you got until at Jedi Master you might have to do one per week and only able to miss one. Failure to meet the requirements would "retire" your jedi character and the lottery would roll again with you being cloned back to your prejedi body.
If you ever died, then you'd get some sort of clever "You've failed me for the last time ..." message and be re-cloned into your pre-jedi body to continue on from that spot.
Of course, it should work like that for Bounty Hunters too, only it would be Boba Fett and they would have to accept bounties from particular factions for a set period of time. So if they accepted Vader's credits, they'd be Imperial for a certain amount of time (picked at the time of the contract) or for a certain person (singular) who would be notified via the Bothan Spy Network they were being hunted. During that time the BH would either be TEFd for the other faction or, if they were hunting a certain person, become a group target for anyone in the contracted jedi's party. At the end of the BH theme park. you'd get to pick between a couple of different kinds of SWEET armor and weapons. Boba would do the same thing as Vader expect you'd get a list of Rebel and Imperial targets like "Kill 10 Rebel PCs" or "Kill 2 Imperial Jedi Novices" but you could chose whichever side any time.
Same rules apply ... die once and you go back to your regular life for a while with only a badge to show for it. And if you killed one of these cool Alpha "players" you got a certain style of Lightsaber for Rebel Jedi, one for Imperial Jedi or a helmet for Bounty Hunters that would be a placeable.
If you ever reach full master jedi or Bounty Hunter without dieing (a spectacular feat), then you would get something REALLY amazing (but you'd still be subject to all the rules and penalties above): Like another character slot. A permanent increase in your maximum number of skills learned (like 5 or 10). Maybe a special kind of ship, like a Defender or a Firespray (assuming it was removed as an item collectible ship). Kind of like the Veteran Reward system worked. The more times you mastered, the sweeter the rewards got.
You people just dont get it. The reason why SWG was changed was because it had no jedi element in the game. You people saying that the game would be better without them are people who dont want to play jedi and you failed to keep SWG afloat. Star Wars MMO should and always foremost have JEDI in the game. Jedi's arn't gods they can be killled and they arn't all powerful they just have a differant skill set. And yes i understand the timeline which is where SOE and the creators of SWG failed. You dont make a star wars game in a timeline where the jedi are all but extinct. You fan boi's n gurls go nuts and say OMG jedi arnt in this timeline your ruining our game. If you hate the game so bad for having jedi get a contract from lucas and make your own otherwise let it go.
I disagree totally in this sentence. The new star wars is all about jedi. But the star wars i grew up with, jedi was a subplot. I beleive a game without jedi would have been 10x more exciting, and less alpha classes are always good. Alpha classes cannot be balanced with the rest. This was a move by LA marketing to entice more players. BE A JEDI! Bleh.
Again, I totally agree with you Miagisan!
When I was growing up a lot of kids wanted to be Han more then Luke.
agree?? what movies were you guys watching? i remember the whole starwars trilogy being about a jedi saving teh galaxiy. yeah it had other things in it liek smugglers and wookies. but i know who the main character was and what his skills were about. i know who the main villains were and what they were about too.
Just to clarify I was agreeing with Miagisan on the highlighted comment. I think the SW universe is quite complex and deep enough that it doesn't have to be all about Jedi. As a matter of fact I believe the new SW T.V. series is focused on a bounty hunter.
But still, I can understand what Miagisan is saying in regards to Jedi being a sub-plot. I guess it can be argued that the GCW really is the over-riding plot of the story. I'm not sure how I feel about this yet but this would make an interesting conversation.
And just to clarify what i guess im saying. Jedi need to be in the game Not the only class worth playing. The fact that u people think a star wars mmo without jedi will flourish is a mental defect because they tried that already and it didnt work out so well. One of the reasons why I didnt play SWG when it first came out. Some how you guys have put some holy grail on the jedi and that is not what im saying, im just saying if your going to have a sucessful Star Wars game there better be some damn jedi in the game and be playable by the people who want to play them. You dont have to make them God like because well Jedi arnt godlike. Damn how many times to i have to repeat myself because i can keep doing this for as long as i have to.
Comments
I think this idea is great personally but imagine there are 1000's of players that would moan to hell that 'their guild has only had 1 unlock this year and so so's guild has had 3' etc etc. Developers would cave in and the Jedi would be a problem again. I realise I've been exposed to WoW but feel realistically most of the gaming community is too self centred to accept 'random.'
1. kept jedi as an alpha class
2. Jedi would be have pvp conduct regulations, where if violated they could have there jedi toon suspened for a certain amount of time.
3. The jedi grind would be a storyline, training of teh force, history of jedi and sith, jedi trials, and some grinding to work on certain skills.
First a few comments on your choices...
1) with no jedi at all, it is not completely star wars as there have always been some jedi no matter what time period it was in....Jedi are such a huge part of star wars (almost if not completely the face of star wars as most of the story is based around jedi...and that's any version of games, movies or books). So not having jedi at all is the worst marketing move of all and fans of star wars won't like it. It's ok to have a star wars game where no jedi are in it as a playable class if it's a stand alone game...but for an online game that you have to put years a of your playing time into, you need jedi in it as a playable class as all the younger generations really know about star wars typically starts and ends with jedi....you don't think some 12 year old is concerned about the politics and fate of the galactic senate do you...no, they go aww for the lightsaber, the force powers, the action...etc.
2.) this would not be bad for marketing....as I said in choice 1, jedi will greatly sale any star wars game. The fact they would be an alpha class is only a problem for older gamers because of our understanding of star wars....for the younger players, they don't fully understand (maybe not even care) the meaning of why the rebels and the empire are at war....why planets are oppressed...why or how jedi struggle between the dark side or the light side....they care about action, killing, great graphics, fast paced gameplay and whatever else they feel makes it fun. Content, story and canon is for us adults. So I think you can have an alpha class if you want but if so, then it's got to be beyond difficult to get a jedi and remain difficult to keep it....marketing would not suffer at all.
3) Now marketing will suffer with this option as it's already been proven by the state of swg now. when jedi where not in the game but could be unlocked and when jedi started becoming unlocked, the game was great. When they started listening to players and trying to please everyone and going through all their other internal problems in the company, that's when the game got bad and remained bad....you can't give away SWG now...so yeah, marketing point of view, the game is dead....I don't care how many people try to say it isn't....when I played for 3 years, the servers were packed 24/7.....now they are ghost towns.....even with or without jedi, that sucks for a star wars point of view....
Now as far as jedi, canon and the story or whatever, the problem isn't jedi. The problem is like I said before is that jedi are practically the face of star wars. Sure you might have Han or some other non jedi on the front cover of a game or movie, but when it comes down to it, the bulk of what goes on involves jedi and that is in nearly every movie to date.....although they tried to limit jedi in one of the movies and it ended up being the most hated one of the 6.
So to have an online game based on star wars, you really need jedi and having them will only boost sales while not having them won't necessarily make the game unsuccessful, but certainly it won't be as successful as if you have jedi in it. The reason I can say that is the proof is there....there are so many jedi running around because that's what majority of players want to be, a jedi. Having the ability to play multiple characters, nearly everyone is gonna have a jedi right along with their normal class...but if 100,000 players all decide to play their jedi at the same time, then that's what you will see. If they all decide to play a normal class at the same time then that is what you will see. YOu can't truly control jedi or any professions or classes in a game and the amount of them you see. So forget trying to police the visibility of jedi. People don't want to pay a monthly subscription to only be told that they cannot play with other people with the class/profession they love the most out of star wars. I know jedi is my favorite part of star wars....and forcing me to play it in the shadows away from other players kills the point of being a jedi in "A GAME".....
So like I said in another post today, my option would be to make different servers so that players who don't care about lots of jedi running around can play on a server where there are no restrictions on jedi. Players who would rather have jedi limited in number or keep their visibility low can choose to play on a server where jedi are limited. You can have the same version of the game on all the servers but just have an option a dev can choose to turn on or off as they see fit (maybe with other options as well) and they can then just go.....
server 1 is limited to no jedi
server 2 is limited to x number of jedi (maybe even use a formula of some kind to determine the amount)
server 3 is no restrictions on jedi
and also you can have say 4 servers for each type of jedi in the beginning, then based on how many players there actually are subscribing and playiing each type of server, you can then alter which servers get which restriction on jedi.
Say more people are playing on the no restrictions jedi server.....while out of the 4 no jedi servers, only 2 servers are being used enough to warrant the existance of them....well then you can convert the 4th server to one of the other server options. That way you won't end up not having enough server space for the jedi option that people like the most. Also, you can simply just keep 4 of each type of server and just add a new server for the one that needs another server.
BAsically I get this idea from a cabal online somewhat. That game has 2 servers and 20 channels for each server (which for all I know are servers themselves, I don't really know). On a server, you have a channel dedicated for novices, one for trading and selling, 3 or 4 premium channels for paying players, 1 channel for war and the rest are regular channels for free or paying customers.
The war channel is the only channel you can actively pvp in without suffering great penalties. You can player kill (PK) someone on the other channels (whhich is just killing them without their consent) but eventually after 3 or 4 PK's you will lose so much honor and suffer other penalties it's not really worth PK'ing too much. On some channels you can't even PK anyone at all though.
As far as I know all the channels run the same version of the game, but obviously the developers have some way of restricting PVP on each channel if they so choose. So I say take it a step further and for a star wars jedi issue, modify that option so that you can control the amount of jedi for a server.
There you have it....those that can care less about cannon, can play on the no restrictions jedi servers and those who hate seeing jedi can play on the no jedi or limited jedi servers.
As for being an alpha class....that's tricky....I'm not really sure if that's good or not....I had no problem with it either way when swg had them as alpha classes or starting classes as I just loved playing jedi period. Although I will admit I did like the powerful feeling of being an alpha class....not for pvp though as I don't really like pvp in any game unless it's fully twitched based where it's all about the actual players read and recognition skills not who has the better items equipped and can use the right move at the right time....games that use D&D style rules for pvp are more of chess to me rather than actual pvp. For pve though, there wasn't a whole lot of difference between being an alpha class jedi or a normal class jedi except bosses and tough dungeons. So jedi were weaker as starter professions but that did not change the fun I had in PVE with them....it only increased the difficulty of playing with them a small bit.
Overall, Jedi have to be part of any online based star wars game....for a standalone game, it don't matter....I mean I play republic commando and don't miss being a jedi in that game at all...but no one woule complain about that game because the concept is that you playing elite storm (clone) troopers.....and your only witnessing the star wars universe from that perspective. in an online game though, you are supposed to be witnessing a whole galaxy and nothing that is a part of that galaxy should be left out...especially when it's a huge part of the overall story.
Also, I think people fail to realize that no game can ever be fully committed to the timeline it's made in because in order for a game to remain a game and be fun, you have to stretch the limits of some things. YOu have to allow some things that aren't possible in the real timeline. If you don't, then you end up with a game that is, well like the current SWG....something majority of gamers don't even bother playing anymore.
I disagree totally in this sentence. The new star wars is all about jedi. But the star wars i grew up with, jedi was a subplot. I beleive a game without jedi would have been 10x more exciting, and less alpha classes are always good. Alpha classes cannot be balanced with the rest. This was a move by LA marketing to entice more players. BE A JEDI! Bleh.
Again, I totally agree with you Miagisan!
When I was growing up a lot of kids wanted to be Han more then Luke.
agree?? what movies were you guys watching? i remember the whole starwars trilogy being about a jedi saving teh galaxiy. yeah it had other things in it liek smugglers and wookies. but i know who the main character was and what his skills were about. i know who the main villains were and what they were about too.
I disagree totally in this sentence. The new star wars is all about jedi. But the star wars i grew up with, jedi was a subplot. I beleive a game without jedi would have been 10x more exciting, and less alpha classes are always good. Alpha classes cannot be balanced with the rest. This was a move by LA marketing to entice more players. BE A JEDI! Bleh.
Again, I totally agree with you Miagisan!
When I was growing up a lot of kids wanted to be Han more then Luke.
agree?? what movies were you guys watching? i remember the whole starwars trilogy being about a jedi saving teh galaxiy. yeah it had other things in it liek smugglers and wookies. but i know who the main character was and what his skills were about. i know who the main villains were and what they were about too.
Just to clarify I was agreeing with Miagisan on the highlighted comment. I think the SW universe is quite complex and deep enough that it doesn't have to be all about Jedi. As a matter of fact I believe the new SW T.V. series is focused on a bounty hunter.
But still, I can understand what Miagisan is saying in regards to Jedi being a sub-plot. I guess it can be argued that the GCW really is the over-riding plot of the story. I'm not sure how I feel about this yet but this would make an interesting conversation.
"If you don't take care of your customers somebody else will."
I like this idea, but I am not sure if the fans would have wnet for it. I, however, would have loved such a system!
Pre-Publish 9 in the Pre-CU days had the basic idea for implementing Jedi right (for most parts).
* A Jedi Knight or Master (not a wet-behind-the-ears Padawan) would be very, very potent. Should be able to take down a few non-Jedi players down with savvy play.
* Leave the diversity of the Jedi skillbox/skilltrees, but some needed to be made more useful to allow a larger variety of builds.
* Permadeath. x3 deaths (PvE or PvP), and that Jedi character is gone. Forever. Reroll a normal character.
* Retain visibility system but more danger. Retain prospect of opportunistic, cunning Bounty Hunters trying to get Jedi. Actually implement the chance of Darth Vader hunting the Jedi down with his personal army of Imperial forces.
This system would do several things:
Actually allow Jedi in the game but the visibility and Permadeath will keep them in check. IMO, a fair balance with gameplay and continuity.
It would mean Jedi would be truly something special, not a "dime a dozen" like they later were or in the Prequel movies. A Jedi showing himself for combat is a momentous occasion, but risks the full wrath of the Empire.
You will no longer see the travesty of having more Jedi onscreen than you would Stormtroopers or Rebel infantry.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
That would have been cool. If I recall correctly I thought some of the jedi loudly complained 3 deaths was unfair because the might go LD etc. and they complained about visibility because they said it kept them from grouping with their friends in a mmorpg...
Not agreeing, those are just some of the arguments I remember.
jedi was fine after pub 9
it gave us a great quest that you had to work with and support other players to do
and jedi was the best quest reward ever.
it was fine the way it was till the nge ruined it.
The issue I had with Jedi in the game, the quest to become a Jedi BECAME the game.
My the system would be100% random like a lottery. For simplicity sake, say a server could have 10 Jedi. With a scaled perma-death system, as one toon dies , a spot opens up and a random person is chosen for an unlock slot. They can I either choose to take the slot, not take the slot and wait for another random chance or keep the slot as a non Jedi toon but be removed from the random selection process altogether. Also upon death, the Jedi slot could be converted to a regular character slot, but again the player would be removed from the random selection.
My approach would have allowed Jedi as an alpha class, maybe even more powerful then what they were Pre NGE, but only as they reached higher ranks, Knight and Master etc, But with great risk and required activity in both PvE and PvP as the character advances.
I also would include:
Experience decay/skill decay with inactivity
Limited inventory and space and restrictions on what items a Jedi could posses
Limit on the amount of credits a Jedi could hold.
Master/Padawan system
Distinct Dark Side path.
By removing any influence an individual player has on becoming a Jedi it would alleviate a lot of what I found wrong with the game as a whole, the grind for Jedi consuming a large portion of the playerbase. It would also keep Jedi rare and hidden, and only those truly committed to playing a Jedi the “correct” way would stand a chance on keeping them alive for a long period of time and achieving the higher ranks and the increased power that goes along with them.
IMHO this is the most fair and balanced way to have an alpha class like Jedi in an MMO.
My approach?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2155006#2155006
Great minds think alike.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
My approach?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2155006#2155006
Great minds think alike.
The only issue I have doing at character creation is you would have people creating and deleting toons over and over until they got an unlock.
Of course the Jedi loved things after Publish 9.
* They bagan to hog up a disproportionately high amount of publish attention. They received several passes while certain non-Jedi professions never received a revamp.
* SOE, after Publish 9, began to remove all the safeguards on containing the Jedi population. Before Publish 9, you counted yourself as one of the lucky few who saw a Jedi in action. It was a moment to remember. After Publish 9, Jedi were EVERYWHERE, parading around in groups, dueling out in the open, etc.
* The Jedi population spun out of control. There were more Jedi onscreen than Stormtroopers. Jedi began to dominate the GCW/PvP scene. If you weren't a Jedi or Doctor, you were a hindrance in PvP.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
I got an interesting idea.
Have a raffle every friday - include it in the, "Friday's Feature". Every account will have a "ticket" to become a "hero" of the Empire or the Rebellion. Therefore, this would be called, "Heroes of the Empire" for the Imperals and "Heroes of the Alliance" for Rebels. New wallpaper would be made for this new feature. Basically, every week you will be asked if you want to take part as a hero of the Empire or Rebellion. If you say "Yes" you will have the option of choosing the following heroes:
Alliance: Luke Skywalker, Princess Leia, Han Solo & Chewbacca
Empire: The Emperor, Darth Vader, Boba Fett
You are able to choose who you want your raffle to go for. So if you want to be Luke Skywalker, use your weekly raffle to become Luke Skywalker on your server. After the winners of the raffles are annouced, their raffle's are thrown out, but the loser's raffles stay in - meaning the person who puts the most raffles in over the longest period of time has the greatest amount of chance to win. To be fair to new-incoming people, raffles would reset after six months.
This would be the only way to play as a force-sensitive character. Every hero will have a unique set of abilities that would be super-alpha to the regular character - each being equal to each other, yet still being widely different.
This would give players more incentive to play ... if they knew they could become one of their favorite Star Wars heroes, I think it could have gathered up a lot of people and subscriptions would have gone up - and at the same time it would be chronologically (spelling?) correct.
actually that isn't a bad idea. randomly choose a certain number of accounts per week/month on each server and let them represent their faction in pvp.
This is what I would have done:
I would have capped it at say 500 per server and told the rest, i'm sorry but we have reached the Force Sensitive characters alotment for this server.
I don't know what maginal number I would have started with say 10k kills for each faction
No player Jedi, just Force Adepts. The restraining factors on FS characters are TEF, visibility, and loss of XP and skills. The road to Adept status runs thru the Village, where at least 4 branches must be filled before gaining access to Adept (essentially a "master" box).
There would be many Adept boxes, all different, at least one for every branch of Force skills. All Adept boxes would have one thing in common: lightsaber certification and maybe a saber-block special. Otherwise, sabers just use melee specials appropriate to their form factor: 1H, 2H, Polearm. Schematics to make sabers and saber crafting tools only come from filling the Force Crafting branches. There would only be one saber in each form factor, not "generations" of sabers. Saber construction uses Weaponsmith assembly and experimentation, the crafting tool uses Artisan skills.
The Force abilities and skills in the Force Adept box are all that you get, but their potency scales up as you gain "Jedi XP". The power of a saber depends on its original construction, the crystals/pearls in it, and the J-XP of the Adept using it. If you die, you lose a percentage of your J-XP (not a flat value, and it can't go negative). 3 deaths in the space of a week, and you lose the Adept box too; the underlying FS skills are not affected and you can't lose them except by surrendering them. You can also voluntarily drop an Adept box at a Force shrine, at a very minor cost in J-XP, and get a different Adept box at the Village.
from http://mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/101654
First of all, decide if Jedi will be playable or not. If they will be playable, then make it possible for anyone to play it - not just the first person who logs on to the server, not just the 50 people on the server, not just to someone who won it in a raffle - make it available for anyone and recognize that the "canon" is going to get trashed.
The "canon" arguments really piss me off. If you're a Star Wars Purist, don't come to the game. You're going to see a lot of things that will frazzle you (aliens in the Empire for example). You'll also see a lot of really stupid names. So just accept it that the game isn't going to be like the movies.
Secondly - It's okay if you're going to let BH's hunt Jedi, but don't punish people for wanting to be a Jedi by making them spent hundreds of hours by themselves in the middle of no where grinding xp. If you're trying to make it a living world, then you should be encouraging people to play in it.
Thirdly - I would have made it quest based. When you first start, the game would choose some quests - a couple of "easy", a couple of "medium" and some "hard". Then the world would be loaded with thousands of quests. All of this said, there would be hints in the game as to which quests you should run to unlock.
I would have left it out altogether.
Although it wasnt obvious at the time and i did in fact grind 3 jedi 2 went ebay as I was a struggling student when I look back on things jedi truly was the begining of the end for SWG from day 1 of them being introduced everything then centered around them, classes that had been borked for ages or little promises such as pistoleer dual wield never making it live whilst jedi's got 2 revamp's and constant tweaks.
The economy went to hell as people hologrinded and a degree of the social interaction went as people chose to spend less time in groups or cantina's and more time aoe'n in the jonda cave to get that melee prof done in 2 days or afk at the blue leaf temple grinding a ranged prof.
And then came the Jedi grind itself and you friend of months just vanished you rareley saw him and even your best IG mates treat you with a degree of suspision that you only wanted to know there wareabouts to kill them.
For me they did kill there game and if that thing that must remain nameless suceeds I hope they leave them out altogether.
Same. The addition of the Jedi class did not help the game what so ever. Along with the expansions and the unwanted revamps, The Jedi profession kept taking alot of the effort that should have been focused on the core game and the professions that were in need of attention since day #1.
I wouldn't have mined force sensitivty skills/modifiers being available to all professions to add even more variety and depth, but the only in-game Jedi should have been kick-butt NPCs requiring a lot of teamwork and sacrifice (corpses littering the ground) to defeat.
My approach?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2155006#2155006
Great minds think alike.
The only issue I have doing at character creation is you would have people creating and deleting toons over and over until they got an unlock.
Which is why it's tied to an account, not character creation. The account is flagged, not a character.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
I would have run a lottery system based off a certain series of quests and skills. So if you did quest X, your character would count 5 out of (server population), get skill Y and you would count 10 out of (server population). Then you could continually increase your chance of getting picked, if you worked hard enough (like at Galactic Civil War style quests) but it would still be quite possible for an entertainer to have the chance.
Let's say you can have 100 jedi on a server and 10 Bounty Hunters. 50 Rebel, 50 Imperial and 10 Neutral.
So you log on one day and you get a message:
"Darth Vader wants to see you ... Immediately!" - You've got until XXXXX to reach Vader at this waypoint.
You show up and Vader asks if you would like to become a jedi. Which you would say:
"NO" - Lottery rolls again and another character is picked
"YES" - Your character is saved in its current state and you begin training as a jedi. The skills that you've already earned are eventually replaced by a super uber tree of Jedi skills ... with a catch.
There would be some kind of intense jedi training academy that was, essentially, a theme park like instance (Dagobah?). When you finished, you would have been asked to remove all your old skills and have used up about half of your skill allotment. But would be roughly "equal" to all the other combat classes in the game so you could walk out of there able to effectively defend yourself and you would get to choose between a list of cool names that were reserved at launch (Like Revan, Plagus, etc)
After the academy, Vader or Luke would periodically request your presence to assign you a mission. Once you took that mission, you were TEFd. There would be more and more missions, more frequently, the higher up you got until at Jedi Master you might have to do one per week and only able to miss one. Failure to meet the requirements would "retire" your jedi character and the lottery would roll again with you being cloned back to your prejedi body.
If you ever died, then you'd get some sort of clever "You've failed me for the last time ..." message and be re-cloned into your pre-jedi body to continue on from that spot.
Of course, it should work like that for Bounty Hunters too, only it would be Boba Fett and they would have to accept bounties from particular factions for a set period of time. So if they accepted Vader's credits, they'd be Imperial for a certain amount of time (picked at the time of the contract) or for a certain person (singular) who would be notified via the Bothan Spy Network they were being hunted. During that time the BH would either be TEFd for the other faction or, if they were hunting a certain person, become a group target for anyone in the contracted jedi's party. At the end of the BH theme park. you'd get to pick between a couple of different kinds of SWEET armor and weapons. Boba would do the same thing as Vader expect you'd get a list of Rebel and Imperial targets like "Kill 10 Rebel PCs" or "Kill 2 Imperial Jedi Novices" but you could chose whichever side any time.
Same rules apply ... die once and you go back to your regular life for a while with only a badge to show for it. And if you killed one of these cool Alpha "players" you got a certain style of Lightsaber for Rebel Jedi, one for Imperial Jedi or a helmet for Bounty Hunters that would be a placeable.
If you ever reach full master jedi or Bounty Hunter without dieing (a spectacular feat), then you would get something REALLY amazing (but you'd still be subject to all the rules and penalties above): Like another character slot. A permanent increase in your maximum number of skills learned (like 5 or 10). Maybe a special kind of ship, like a Defender or a Firespray (assuming it was removed as an item collectible ship). Kind of like the Veteran Reward system worked. The more times you mastered, the sweeter the rewards got.
I disagree totally in this sentence. The new star wars is all about jedi. But the star wars i grew up with, jedi was a subplot. I beleive a game without jedi would have been 10x more exciting, and less alpha classes are always good. Alpha classes cannot be balanced with the rest. This was a move by LA marketing to entice more players. BE A JEDI! Bleh.
Again, I totally agree with you Miagisan!
When I was growing up a lot of kids wanted to be Han more then Luke.
agree?? what movies were you guys watching? i remember the whole starwars trilogy being about a jedi saving teh galaxiy. yeah it had other things in it liek smugglers and wookies. but i know who the main character was and what his skills were about. i know who the main villains were and what they were about too.
Just to clarify I was agreeing with Miagisan on the highlighted comment. I think the SW universe is quite complex and deep enough that it doesn't have to be all about Jedi. As a matter of fact I believe the new SW T.V. series is focused on a bounty hunter.
But still, I can understand what Miagisan is saying in regards to Jedi being a sub-plot. I guess it can be argued that the GCW really is the over-riding plot of the story. I'm not sure how I feel about this yet but this would make an interesting conversation.
And just to clarify what i guess im saying. Jedi need to be in the game Not the only class worth playing. The fact that u people think a star wars mmo without jedi will flourish is a mental defect because they tried that already and it didnt work out so well. One of the reasons why I didnt play SWG when it first came out. Some how you guys have put some holy grail on the jedi and that is not what im saying, im just saying if your going to have a sucessful Star Wars game there better be some damn jedi in the game and be playable by the people who want to play them. You dont have to make them God like because well Jedi arnt godlike. Damn how many times to i have to repeat myself because i can keep doing this for as long as i have to.