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We Should Thank Funcom (seriously)
Deviate
Member UncommonPosts: 219
I really think Funcom should be thanked for releasing AoC in the condition it's in.
I believe they have opened up other developers eyes, and made them realise they can't release unpolished garbage and get away with it.
I don't look at paying 50 dollars for AoC as a rip off anymore. I look at it like an investment in the future of mmo's.
Warhammer cutting cities and classes is a prime example. They saw the backlash FC got from it's customers and realised they need to release the content when it is polished.
Comments
While I agree with you on the state of AOC... I don't think developers or publishers are going to learn any lessons from it. If anything, the initial successful sales of the game just prove that we are willing to buy unfinished crap.
When it comes to WAR... I highly doubt the game is going to be very polished at launch. If they are having to cut so much major content and features... imagine how bad the little "unimportant" stuff like class balance and itemization will be. I bet it plays a lot like AOC at it's launch.
Maybe we are the ones who can learn a lesson here... Don't play MMOs at launch.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
Developers/companies learn?
Let's see off the top of my head: DnL, Vanguard, Archlord, Fury, HG:L, MXO...um..TR, Shadowbane.
THIS time though, I bet the devs and their backers have learned.
Warhammer in beta is already far more polished and finished than Age of Conan.
Things can change when they open the flood gates. Hell I remember everyone saying how kick ass AOC was while they were in Beta .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
@ Salv.....I'm sure devs are banking on the subscribtions, not initial box sales.
@ Die.....Ofc you can use small craptastic dev teams as an example. I meant companies like Mythic, not Farlan, Sigil etc..
Things can change when they open the flood gates. Hell I remember everyone saying how kick ass AOC was while they were in Beta .
Well, FC beta was Tortage if my source is correct. WAR is letting people test the majority of the game, not just the first 20 levels of a single player clone.
Things can change when they open the flood gates. Hell I remember everyone saying how kick ass AOC was while they were in Beta .
Well, FC beta was Tortage if my source is correct. WAR is letting people test the majority of the game, not just the first 20 levels of a single player clone.
BINGO!! We have a winner!
Out of every 100 men, 10 should not be there,
80 are nothing but targets, 9 are the real fighters.
Ah, but one, ONE of them is a warrior,
and he will bring the others home.
-Heraclitus 500BC
Things can change when they open the flood gates. Hell I remember everyone saying how kick ass AOC was while they were in Beta .
Well, FC beta was Tortage if my source is correct. WAR is letting people test the majority of the game, not just the first 20 levels of a single player clone.
Really ? that's pretty sad , I've never heard that before. Stability however is an issue mostly linked to server stress. Again , until they open the game to that stress you aren't going to see how it handles it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Things can change when they open the flood gates. Hell I remember everyone saying how kick ass AOC was while they were in Beta .
Well, FC beta was Tortage if my source is correct. WAR is letting people test the majority of the game, not just the first 20 levels of a single player clone.
BINGO!! We have a winner!
Well, I don't know what monkeys they had testing it, but I would have wondered why they only let you see Tortage.
Regardless of how much fun 1-20 was, it would have raised a redflag for me.
Actually your source is not correct. The beta included the whole game up to level 80, but without the end game.
Things can change when they open the flood gates. Hell I remember everyone saying how kick ass AOC was while they were in Beta .
Well, FC beta was Tortage if my source is correct. WAR is letting people test the majority of the game, not just the first 20 levels of a single player clone.
BINGO!! We have a winner!
Not really , Everything I've seen from WAR testers has been the same hype AOC testers gave the public . These "best thing since sliced bread" posts are garbage IMO. It's not an issue of whether it's better than AOC , Like that would be a huge feat . It's a matter of whether the game is as good as WAR fanbois say.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Things can change when they open the flood gates. Hell I remember everyone saying how kick ass AOC was while they were in Beta .
Well, FC beta was Tortage if my source is correct. WAR is letting people test the majority of the game, not just the first 20 levels of a single player clone.
BINGO!! We have a winner!
Well, I don't know what monkeys they had testing it, but I would have wondered why they only let you see Tortage.
Regardless of how much fun 1-20 was, it would have raised a redflag for me.
Actually it did with a lot of people, just look back to earlier posts before the game came out. Now granted this was just during the pvp weekend beta and the smaller beta before release. As far as the earlier beta times I couldnt tell you, often wondered myself what the hell they tested since so much was broke, especially the main elements of group play.
Out of every 100 men, 10 should not be there,
80 are nothing but targets, 9 are the real fighters.
Ah, but one, ONE of them is a warrior,
and he will bring the others home.
-Heraclitus 500BC
I think Vanguard was the first real eye opener that people just don't want to sit around waiting for a game to get finished. It was fairly high profile, big budget and stocked with some high caliber MMO developers. Seeing games get delayed seemed to be a reaction and recognition to this.
I think that Funcom got cold feet and didn't want to release anywhere near WOTLK and Warhammer and instead took their chances releasing an unfinished game.
I would love to say that if AOC bombs it will open game companies eyes and they will take their time making games, but we all know to well how history repeats itself.
While I agree with you on the state of AOC... I don't think developers or publishers are going to learn any lessons from it. If anything, the initial successful sales of the game just prove that we are willing to buy unfinished crap.
When it comes to WAR... I highly doubt the game is going to be very polished at launch. If they are having to cut so much major content and features... imagine how bad the little "unimportant" stuff like class balance and itemization will be. I bet it plays a lot like AOC at it's launch.
Maybe we are the ones who can learn a lesson here... Don't play MMOs at launch.
they took out all that stuff so that the rest of the game would be very polish and so they could concentrate on making when they left in the game better in every aspect than any other game. Then the other cities when they release in a patch will be even better than ever because they will recieve more polish than they would if they were at launch and they learn from mistakes of the first 2 cities.
P.S. for the person who said WAR right now is more polished than Age of Conan your wrong because WAR has 1 big polishing issue at the moment and thats RvR balance, and isnt RvR the main aspect of the game?
<modedit>
Well, I guess it's wishful thinking on my part. I don't know how many games need to flop before it wakes people up.
I do know that Funcom added to the list of "How not to release an mmo", though.
Your $50 is indeed an investment, just not the one you think it is. You speak with your money not your words. When you purchase a game you give approval to the publisher for the state of the game at release and make it even more likely that future games will be released in equivalent or even worse states.
If you want to have a positive influence you should start by not buying games until you are certain that they meet your quality standards and that you wish to support it so that more games of similar quality and interest will be made. Next you can mail a letter to the publishing company explaining why you have decided not to buy titles recently published by them and what you would like to see happen in order for you to become their customer again. It should be well written with no spelling or grammar errors and it should be polite. It should also be a real physical letter sent via real mail and not an email. Once you've done this get every single friend to do the same thing and have their friends do it as well.
Ever increasing sales mean that publishing companies will pay little heed to a few complaints made on a variety of internet message boards. A few thousand physical letters arriving at their door will catch their attention and when subscriptions get canceled and sales start falling they will act immediately to improve the situation.
Slight mis-information here. There was more than one beta. The original beta testers had full access to the game. Then there was the 'open beta' for fileplanet subscribers that was only Tortage until the last day. They then opened up all content (minus storyline quests) for everyone for that one day, I'm not positive about this, but I heard this beta was actually an older build than the closed beta people were playing on. Then there was the 'early access' period for preorders.
While I agree with you on the state of AOC... I don't think developers or publishers are going to learn any lessons from it. If anything, the initial successful sales of the game just prove that we are willing to buy unfinished crap.
When it comes to WAR... I highly doubt the game is going to be very polished at launch. If they are having to cut so much major content and features... imagine how bad the little "unimportant" stuff like class balance and itemization will be. I bet it plays a lot like AOC at it's launch.
Maybe we are the ones who can learn a lesson here... Don't play MMOs at launch.
they took out all that stuff so that the rest of the game would be very polish and so they could concentrate on making when they left in the game better in every aspect than any other game. Then the other cities when they release in a patch will be even better than ever because they will recieve more polish than they would if they were at launch and they learn from mistakes of the first 2 cities.
That's what they say believe it all you want , However saying and doing are two different things. Mark Jacobs IMO is another Brad Mcquaid in the PR department, He could describe a huge moldy turd and make it sound golden.
P.S. for the person who said WAR right now is more polished than Age of Conan your wrong because WAR has 1 big polishing issue at the moment and thats RvR balance, and isnt RvR the main aspect of the game? Yep , Wouldn't have anything to do with why they removed all but 2 citys would it ?
<modedit>
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I disagree entirely with this post.
Age of Conan is just another game in a slew of recent failures that ignored their competition.
I think the problem with all these MMO developers is that:
1) They have absolutely no idea what gamers want/expect nowadays, and approach this from a business perspective, instead of from a gamer's perspective.
2) All project managers have 0% competence, and are skilled in budget mismanagement, lying to all their customers, and generally lacking in the creativity department.
3) None of the backers, nor the project managers, have ever researched the history of MMO's, pre-WoW, and it shows.
In my mind, the MMO genre is in shambles. When is the last time some new ideas came forward? Why are we always using the same classes, the same races, the same everything that were being used nearly a decade ago? Why isn't the genre evolving?
I think when you couple the problems listed above, accompanied with the fact the MMO players are *finally* getting tired of playing the same game with a few different features, designs, etc etc, and looking for more, that you've got a stonewall.
I believe the next, truly great MMO will require the following:
1) Abandon the Tolkien Lore/Fantasy theme. No more orcs, battle axes, and for God's sake, I never want to see an elf again, in any form, period.
2) A company that actively interacts with it's players. Dev-led monster raids vs. player cities and such would be something remarkable to me. Devs who actually post on their forums. GM's who give a damn about customer care. You know, not a corporation.
3) An emphasis on a setting not often explored. For example, I'd pay stupid amounts of money to play a Fallout MMO that worked well.
4) New ideas in the industry. It's obvious that those who ARE in this industry are just plain drained of new creative endeavors. McQuaid's Vanguard, Gaute's Conan, and let's not even get into Archlord. It's time to start a search for new creative genius.
Just my 2 cents... I should write an editorial column. "How to Build a 5 Star MMO"
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Wait, I thought it was Vanguards job to do this. Why does Funcom have to do this now? What lessons have they learned?
hmph. Soul Calibur 4 next week, booya.!
Total time played: 9125 Days, 21 Hours, 29 Minutes, 27 Seconds
Time played this level: 39 Days, 1 Hour, 24 Minutes, 5 Seconds
While I agree with you on the state of AOC... I don't think developers or publishers are going to learn any lessons from it. If anything, the initial successful sales of the game just prove that we are willing to buy unfinished crap.
When it comes to WAR... I highly doubt the game is going to be very polished at launch. If they are having to cut so much major content and features... imagine how bad the little "unimportant" stuff like class balance and itemization will be. I bet it plays a lot like AOC at it's launch.
Maybe we are the ones who can learn a lesson here... Don't play MMOs at launch.
they took out all that stuff so that the rest of the game would be very polish and so they could concentrate on making when they left in the game better in every aspect than any other game. Then the other cities when they release in a patch will be even better than ever because they will recieve more polish than they would if they were at launch and they learn from mistakes of the first 2 cities.
P.S. for the person who said WAR right now is more polished than Age of Conan your wrong because WAR has 1 big polishing issue at the moment and thats RvR balance, and isnt RvR the main aspect of the game?
<modedit>
Did they take out item stats and things of that sort? Because that should've been in long ago considering it's a core element.
I just don't see a developer saying to themself right now, "AoC was a total joke of an mmo, but still sold 700k copies. We should do the same".
There has to be some sort of effect from people leaving AoC and talking trash about it in forums. Be it postive or negative, I don't know. I just hope it's the former.
There's one problem I see in your theory , Most games that are trying something different don't get funded, If they do they don't become hits. Look at Fallen Earth (similar to the lore in Fallout) , They have a lot of good tech footage, art, ideas , but have yet to get invested in by a corporation . EVE has most of what you described , It actually offers a lot more(including CCP being very active within their community) . Yet has only a small portion of the MMO market under it's wing.
Maybe the problem isn't with developers at all , It's those putting up the big money. And those who buy their fantasy rehashes up like milk and bread. Look at WOW, Blizzard controls 10 million subs , Yet never innovates , never takes a risk , They Just rehash what's been done over and over for years now.Yet if you look at any MMO community site like this one , You have so many people that defend this , just because their game happens to have a bit more spit and polish.
Therefor no one takes a risk , look what happens if they do . When trying something new you have few guidelines to follow in how to make this or that work . Therefor games that innovate are far more buggy , have general stability issues and more headaches all around. In turn noone supports the game , Game dies . Company closes bye bye innovation. Sad truth of the state of MMO's
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Because there was no end game,andAoC(pseudo) Open Beta was a joke.Where as WAR end game is being tested,both city Altdorf and Inevitable city are under siege.Beta testers have been able to test all Tiers.The source is correct
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
I believe that most smaller developers will try and follow the LOTRO type of launch model. Build a solid, as much as possible bug free game. Keep the content as limited as possible in the beginning and expand later. It seems that AoC chose the same recipe, just without the "solid" base gameplay (due to certain bugs). It also seems that WAR is following the exact same approach.
As for the bug-free approach, this is something modern. Most game of the old were and are bug ridden. The bugs are not game-stopping, but they were always there. And it was considered something normal. When the MMOs gone mainstream however, the tolerance to such issues became considerably smaller.
To Ngeldu5t :
I was talking about the closed beta. Hense the source is not correct. WAR is also in closed beta phase. Same deal exactly.