Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Speed nerf incoming.
sa1yaman
Member Posts: 272
in EVE Online
Comments
Its good to see that ccp sees the benifit of the NGE that sony used hopefully more change will come to make the game more fair to new players. Good move.
MAGA
be nice if they decrease the effect of a webifier that they increase the range a bit on them. I also always thought the webifier effect should be inrelation to the size of the ship you are using it on. A tiny drone should not have the cap to keep a web from slowing a battleship so much...I can see it slowing them some, but seems power supply should be a factor.
I don't know as much about the game's mechanics as I'd like, but I would think webifying a bigger ship would have less effect than webifying a smaller ship. I mean, sure it's a static 90% but the 90% for the smaller ship is going to be a lot more speed reduction overall than the bigger ship. Plus, the larger ships are easier to hit anyways.
Regardless though, you're right, it is pretty strange that the mod works the same regardless of size. Just one of those things we have to tolerate in the name of fair mechanics.
Hehe .. those changes will make alot of ppl cry
. I actualy am glad, as i never liked the whole nanofa****ry business
i can only pray to heaven that ccp realizes they have far more customers CURRENTLY than swg ever had... and that they never even pretend to joke around about contemplating something as incredibly STUPID as the nge.
ya know what REALLY gets me...
why doesn't anyone sit there and whine and whine and whine and whine about how unfair it is in a game like eq2, or wow, that you have to work up to level 60/70/80/400 and THEN start grinding for your gear and that it's so totally unfair that a new player to eq2 or wow, can't just go kick everyone's ass the first day.
that makes as much sense as the quoted.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
All I can say is about time they addressed this issue. People have been abusing it a lot recently. When a cruiser outruns my interceptor something had to be broken.
As to the web changes, you obviously did not read the blog very well, if a ship fitted with a MWD gets hit with a web it stops immediately. Hence the only effect that a web will have now on a ships speed except from stopping it dead in space is for those fitted with AB's. You don't need 90% speed reduction against an AB, 50% or 60% will still do quite well.
Because of that, the web effect will be just about the same as before since the people using AB's in this game were normally just created.
i suggest you to read better and ranme your thread is
Speed changing.
nerfing speed that should e some like nerfing polycarbons add mass on vaga and other nano ships(things like that the community expected and asked) wee cant call this nerf is just a new way to rethink the combat on eve and this will not be like that just cant be
remember that this dev show up whit carrier nerf and he eat hes words this will happen again
/me train recon ship to lvl 5(17 days left) lalalalalala
Lachesis will be te next FOTM
BestSigEver :P
Wrong. Warp Scrambler will turn a MWD off. So you will have to decide what' to use -a distruptor with long range but no effect on mwd, or a scrambler with short range but with ability to kill mwd....
From what I have read, these changes will in effect, correct a violation to one of EVE's cardinal rules:
No upside shall be without its downside. Or, no advantage shall be without a balancing disadvantage.
The ability to stack speed mods to ridiculous levels with no downside is something that goes against that cardinal rule, so, I think the changes that are coming will be a good thing for EVE as it will bring things into closer balance.
Not quite.
Nanos have no counter other than other nanos. Especially since modern nanos are sniping hacs with speedmods who can operate outside of overheated huginn range.
Everything must have a counter. Against Ecm you have ECCM, against a scram you have a lot of counters being cap warfare, ecm, speed etc.
Against nano, your only counter is nano, which is bad. Hence the changes.
If you notice though, I never mentioned counters.
Your post has its points, but as a direct response to my post, it is a non-sequitur.
Actually, it is. You mentioned a possible reason for the changes. I mentioned the official explanation why ccp chose to act.
I don't care that they changed speed mechanics, however my one complaint is that many players trained up a certain set of skills to fly a certain ship a certain way. Its fine if they don't want Vaga's outrunning ceptors, but someone like me should be allowed to respec the training I put into these skills, and that's not part of their plan. I'm basically stuck for the old skills and now have start over on a new plan.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Actually, it is. You mentioned a possible reason for the changes. I mentioned the official explanation why ccp chose to act.
Okay. But I read the blog too. Another reason for the change was as I stated. So, neither was wrong.
Oh c'mon, it was clear that nanos would get a hit with the nerfbat sooner or later. People trained for it because it's the cool thing to do, just like people trained amarr back then..
The nanos didn't have their roles amputated, one or two vagas will still excel at the stuff they can do well.
What is changes is, that ships that are not supposed to go too fast like most other hacs, and ships that can move so fast that the only counter is another nano fleet that is even faster, get back to normal levels. The vaga with the cookie-cutter fit can still do 3.5-4km/s, which is plenty and enough for the job.
I really hope that i will never have to see a vaga outrunning all ceptors, even matar ones, ever again, though.
This is not directed towards you. I am just agreeing with that statement 100%.
I left during the missile nerf. Not because of the nerf itself or that I didn't like the game. But because I was well over a year skilled into missiles and electronic warefare. That is it. I had 0 gunnery skills. So I had nothing to fall back to once my missiles started bouncing off everything.
The following experience is what made me throw in the towel. I webbed a shuttle smacked it with 4 missiles before it made it to the gate. It didn't even take it into structure. Talk about embarrassing. Needless to say the gunners in that camp were all laughing their asses off on TS. Saying "go get'em killer". It was rather funny after I accepted what just happened.
But these were the same guys which anyone of them with their tech 2 turrets could 1 shot a interceptor, 4 or 5 shot a BS in their full gank setups. (without anyone boosting their tracking). If they could lock it before it warped off, it was dead. Every single time.
Had CCP introduced tech 2 missile launchers when they introduced everyone else's tech 2 equipment. They would have kept me as a player. Some of the new books were out. If I recall correctly, I was skilling specifically which ever one reduced the negative effect of missles on small signature ships. we still didn't have tech 2 launchers or missiles. They could have (1) refunded my skill points in my missile techs for me to put somewhere else at that point. (2) introduced tech 2 launchers at the same time tech 2 guns came out. Nerfs are Eve's only downside if they are done improperly.
Though I guess its none of my business since I haven't played Eve in such a long time. CCP just does not seem to think everything through before they make big changes. Not all players can just pickup something else when a big nerf like this comes about. Instead of them nerfing the speed setups. Since so many have invested a butt load of time and isk into these implants and skills. Why not just offer strong counters to combat these setups? I guess its not that simple. Anyways don't mind me. I just saw kyleran's post and I remember thinking the same thing when I was playing during a big nerf like this.
Not quite.
Nanos have no counter other than other nanos. Especially since modern nanos are sniping hacs with speedmods who can operate outside of overheated huginn range.
Everything must have a counter. Against Ecm you have ECCM, against a scram you have a lot of counters being cap warfare, ecm, speed etc.
Against nano, your only counter is nano, which is bad. Hence the changes.
large neuts.
long range + snipers to reduce traversal.
interdiction manouvers ganglink on a battlecruiser.
minmatar recons.
interceptors with webs.
ECM.
remote reps.
precision missiles.
my only concern is dealing with entrenched powers, my alliance fight a couple of alliances who blob like crazy, nanogangs let us hit and run, without that we have to what? bring a bigger blob? sod that.
hopefully blackops will get fixed to allow us to use them for lightning strikes. that would be excellent.
[quote]
as i said, nanoing to kill nanos is the only working thing. don't work on 100km don't work on 100km (get instapopped, also, rapiers) get instapopped, can't be remoterepped. a falcon with one 1600rt dies too fast only on bs, which can#t hurt nanos anyways ...precision heavies are horrible and absolutely uneffective. cruise missiles take too long. And you still have to get a tackle while the missiles fly..large neuts. don't work on 100km
The point still stands. There is no way to tackle a nanogang flying the fotm nanosnipers. Vagas, Ishtars, the traiditional hit-and-run nanos are easily countered. The recent rise of 40+ nanosniper blobs have no other counter other than a 100 man nano blob trying to lag out the system enough so they can get a tackle while aproaching.
When you have something that can't be tackled while maintaining fighting ability, there is something terribly wrong. This will now hopefully get a bit harder to do.
I'll repeat, i'm not talking about the usual nanovaga, nanoishtar, nanowhatever that has to get into neut range to be effective. I'm talking about nanoed sniping hac blobs going 5-6k perma shooting on 100km. They get a hit with the bat, and that's absolutely needed.
I had Triumvirate as a neighbour long enough, i know how to kill the usual nanos harassing solo ratters or small roaming gangs. Those are perfectly fine and have plenty of counters. But those rarely exist anymore, they were assimilated by sniping nano hacs..
you're talking about long range sniping hac blobs? ive never seen one, as you say, if you are not tackled, then you can just leave.
my point is that there ARE counters to nanogangs, and some people know how to use them. this nerf is needed but im very worried about how 0.0 is going to stack up now, i really really really hate blobbing up.
Of course you are tackled - that's what bubbles are for.
On the other hand, you can't tackle nanos with bubbles, and without the ability to get tacklers to them, you are a sitting duck. Your entire fleet composition, no matter how well thought out, and no matter where your main strengths are, can be outmaneuvered and killed by just one tactic, that can only be countered by using the same tactic.
This get's a nerf, not the usual two or three nanoed vagas flying around.
You haven't seen those hac blobs? Just read on the first three or four pages of the thread to the devblog. Who's whining the loudest?
Exactly, Pandemic Legion, who are using those blobs to a great extend. Also exceed to a lower degree, and Triumvirate, of course. I don't want to go deep into politics, but those are the main nano-alliances with Exceed often using a mixed fleet, Triumvirate using the old school nanos (that can be countered and are balanced), and Pl flying nothing else but nano sniping hacs in blobs of 40+ going 5k+.
Of course, and i hope it succeeds, the hacs flying 8k, the bs flying 10k, and the interceptors breaking 12k will be history. I really hope so.
Well if they had kept the nanos in 0.0, I don't think you would have seen a blog like that. While nanos were a pain in 0.0. Most people had the counters to them.
The problem that nanos were causing really came to light in FW. Remember there are a lot of players in FW with low SP which equates to no way to counter nano fleets. Most of the complaints I have seen in the past month on the boards was from this group, not the 0.0 players.
I have no doubt that FW brought this issue to the forefront and is basically forcing CCP to some form of action.
I really did not care about nanos much until I got involved with FW, then it became very apparent that the game needed fixed.
Nanos were not that much of a problem until the fotm group started using it in FW. When a large group of players start abusing a certain tactic to the detriment of everyone else, you can bet something is going to change. So the nano players have no one, but themselves to blame for this upcoming change.
I'm completely in favor of the speed nerf because the nano-gang tend to break the traditional rock-paper-scissor aspect of the game and many of the arguments made by the devs just make sense.
However I'm very unhappy with way the EvE developers are handling this. The nano problem didn't start last week or last month. It is as if some devs don't know their game at all and are waiting months and years until a problem arise. The effect of stacking speed modules/implants/skills could have been anticipated the minute those mods were introduced. Isn't it what the test server is for ? This is typically the kind of problems that can be spotted easily imo.
Many ships have been doing indecent speed for a long time. The nano issue should have been fixed many months if not years ago.
Thus i perfectly understand why so many players are angry. I don't fly nano-ships myself but i don't think it's fair (or smart) to let players invest so much time and isks into an aspect of the game and ruin it in a snap.
I think CCP needs to be more careful on these issues. It doesn't take 3 months to realize there's a big flaw in one aspect of the game. It shouldn't take years to solve it.
This being said i look forward to seeing most ships flying within reasonable speeds (and not outrunning missiles for instance lol).
I feel sorry for most nano-pilots though
Just to play devils advocate here... Isn't that exactly why you shouldn't feel sorry for the nano-pilots? If this has been such an obvious issue which would so obviously become nerfed at some point yet people still chose to train to into something that was so obviously going to be nerfed, why feel sorry for them?
Not arguing or disagreeing with your points just wanted to say that.
All I can say is thank god to the nerf. Battleships shall be viable once more!
TO KOVAH:
Yeah i understand what you're saying. But that's what players do in a sandbox : they seek and find ways to push the game mechanics to their limits.
I think it's the role of the devs to see that and at least warn players. "Ok guys we've taken good note of the problem and we warn you it's going to be changed in the future". That way if a player takes the risk and waste billions of isks and months of training i won't feel sorry for him
And also my opinion applies to other nerfs too like the carrier nerf for instance. "We didn't intend this ship to do that !" Are u kidding me ? You DESIGNED the ship that way
But don't worry i hate nano f*** like most ppl LOL.