Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by HastorHadron The only thing that really bugs me is that some people always claim someone is a viral marketer when they disagree.
I am not doubting that such devious ploys exist, I am merely uncomfortable with how easily someone can be accused of such a thing just because they do not agree with the views others have.
I call em like I see em. In the game sometimes the get something RIGHT (game update 5 looks good, viable faction armor) other times they get it wrong (NGE, no classic server, constant profession nerf cycles, bugs etc,) but again these are just my opinions. When someone strongly disagrees with me, I do not say --- ooo well you must be on <insert company/game product here>. Frankly, I think most people here have some real points in their perspective and viral marketer attack just diminishes the merits of discussion.
I look at it as a write off and nothing more , comments like that rarely come from productive debaters anyway.It's a tool employed to diminish an opinion that they otherwise couldn't refute. As an example Poster (A) posts " I'm a pre-cu vet , Tried my free trial, enjoyed my time ingame " Poster (B) Replies " Lies , No pre-cu vet would enjoy NGE. You must be an SOE employee." How do you respond to such a statement ? IMO you don't , Toss the asshatery aside , AND you're left with little substance. Poster b obviously has no interest in discusion , His/her motive is to bait (A) into a nonsensical slugfest. Leave it and move on , Best way to handle a troll IMO . As hard as it can be at times . Actually, that's not how it goes most of the time. The people who are accused of being a viral marketer are either people who try and say it's okay to lie cheat and steal; people who flame and attack vets and call them mentally ill, and people who continually come on these forums to preach about how much they love a game and a company.
Those people usually express themselves in a way that sounds like marketese. Now, the fact is, there are two forms of "viral marketers" we have here (well, more but these two are the main ones from the SOE side. One kind is paid by SOE -- there probably aren't many of those. SOE is notoriously cheap, and paying such people would be beyond budget. I'm sure a few exist, and I am sure they are among the phoniest sounding posters here.
The second is there is an organized campaign among a few of the most ardent SOE lovers to sell this game, and to "combat the lies the vets tell," which is bull, since, as a current player, I know most of the time the vets are the ones telling the truth, and these folks are the ones lying. These are the strangest breed of viral marketers, since they do it for free.
Every so often a new campaign starts on the official boards and is brought over here. The threads have been reproduced and we have seen them.
the point really is, is it effective? No. The more people talk about it, the more the truth gets out -- so the viral marketer hurts things more than he helps. In his attempt to discredit the vets, he gives them credibility. The more people talk about it, the more people will know what SOE did and how craoppy the game still is.
It's all good, in the long run. In the free market of communication, the shills lose.
Lots of people guilty of fraud are not in jail. If there is no "we," then you have no reason to try and tell people how to react when they don't like a company's practices.
After recent events in the industry , Where does the line between Lack of foresight and fraud cross ? SO many games lately have led people to pre-order on the notion that mechanic B and class A will be in the game , Only to say at launch or close to ,they will be taking mechanic B or Class A out . This is essentially the same exact thing SOE did to those who pre-ordered TOOW. Yet none of those companies have even refunded those pre-orders, Is there a protection that covers software developers in this area ?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The only thing that really bugs me is that some people always claim someone is a viral marketer when they disagree.
I am not doubting that such devious ploys exist, I am merely uncomfortable with how easily someone can be accused of such a thing just because they do not agree with the views others have.
I call em like I see em. In the game sometimes the get something RIGHT (game update 5 looks good, viable faction armor) other times they get it wrong (NGE, no classic server, constant profession nerf cycles, bugs etc,) but again these are just my opinions. When someone strongly disagrees with me, I do not say --- ooo well you must be on <insert company/game product here>.
Frankly, I think most people here have some real points in their perspective and viral marketer attack just diminishes the merits of discussion.
I look at it as a write off and nothing more , comments like that rarely come from productive debaters anyway.It's a tool employed to diminish an opinion that they otherwise couldn't refute.
As an example Poster (A) posts " I'm a pre-cu vet , Tried my free trial, enjoyed my time ingame " Poster (B) Replies " Lies , No pre-cu vet would enjoy NGE. You must be an SOE employee."
How do you respond to such a statement ? IMO you don't , Toss the asshatery aside , AND you're left with little substance. Poster b obviously has no interest in discusion , His/her motive is to bait (A) into a nonsensical slugfest. Leave it and move on , Best way to handle a troll IMO . As hard as it can be at times .
Actually, that's not how it goes most of the time. The people who are accused of being a viral marketer are either people who try and say it's okay to lie cheat and steal; people who flame and attack vets and call them mentally ill, and people who continually come on these forums to preach about how much they love a game and a company.
Those people usually express themselves in a way that sounds like marketese. Now, the fact is, there are two forms of "viral marketers" we have here (well, more but these two are the main ones from the SOE side. One kind is paid by SOE -- there probably aren't many of those. SOE is notoriously cheap, and paying such people would be beyond budget. I'm sure a few exist, and I am sure they are among the phoniest sounding posters here.
The second is there is an organized campaign among a few of the most ardent SOE lovers to sell this game, and to "combat the lies the vets tell," which is bull, since, as a current player, I know most of the time the vets are the ones telling the truth, and these folks are the ones lying. These are the strangest breed of viral marketers, since they do it for free.
Every so often a new campaign starts on the official boards and is brought over here. The threads have been reproduced and we have seen them.
the point really is, is it effective? No. The more people talk about it, the more the truth gets out -- so the viral marketer hurts things more than he helps. In his attempt to discredit the vets, he gives them credibility. The more people talk about it, the more people will know what SOE did and how craoppy the game still is.
It's all good, in the long run. In the free market of communication, the shills lose.
I don't disagree with anything you wrote , I'd just like to point out I was being pretty specific about the posters I was describing , I was basically agreeing with hastor , I also stated it's rare to cross a poster like that, if you missed it :P.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Fishermage
Lots of people guilty of fraud are not in jail. If there is no "we," then you have no reason to try and tell people how to react when they don't like a company's practices.
After recent events in the industry , Where does the line between Lack of foresight and fraud cross ? SO many games lately have led people to pre-order on the notion that mechanic B and class A will be in the game , Only to say at launch or close to ,they will be taking mechanic B or Class A out . This is essentially the same exact thing SOE did to those who pre-ordered TOOW. Yet none of those companys have even refunded those pre-orders, Is there a protection that covers software developers in this area ?
Knowingly and willingly violating your customer's trust is fraud.
The question always is, what did they know and when did they know it? IN the case of SOE, it is obvious. WE have learned from dan Rubenfeld that they KNEW they were removing ranger at the same time they advertized a revamp and improvement to the class.
That was fraud.
Since you refuse to brind up specifics, it is impossible to even discuss the other cases. Fraud is easy to see, but difficult to prove, unless someone spills the beans. In the case of SWG, that has happened.
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by Malickiebloo
Originally posted by HastorHadron
The only thing that really bugs me is that some people always claim someone is a viral marketer when they disagree.
I am not doubting that such devious ploys exist, I am merely uncomfortable with how easily someone can be accused of such a thing just because they do not agree with the views others have.
I call em like I see em. In the game sometimes the get something RIGHT (game update 5 looks good, viable faction armor) other times they get it wrong (NGE, no classic server, constant profession nerf cycles, bugs etc,) but again these are just my opinions. When someone strongly disagrees with me, I do not say --- ooo well you must be on <insert company/game product here>. Frankly, I think most people here have some real points in their perspective and viral marketer attack just diminishes the merits of discussion.
I look at it as a write off and nothing more , comments like that rarely come from productive debaters anyway.It's a tool employed to diminish an opinion that they otherwise couldn't refute. As an example Poster (A) posts " I'm a pre-cu vet , Tried my free trial, enjoyed my time ingame " Poster (B) Replies " Lies , No pre-cu vet would enjoy NGE. You must be an SOE employee." How do you respond to such a statement ? IMO you don't , Toss the asshatery aside , AND you're left with little substance. Poster b obviously has no interest in discusion , His/her motive is to bait (A) into a nonsensical slugfest. Leave it and move on , Best way to handle a troll IMO . As hard as it can be at times . Actually, that's not how it goes most of the time. The people who are accused of being a viral marketer are either people who try and say it's okay to lie cheat and steal; people who flame and attack vets and call them mentally ill, and people who continually come on these forums to preach about how much they love a game and a company.
Those people usually express themselves in a way that sounds like marketese. Now, the fact is, there are two forms of "viral marketers" we have here (well, more but these two are the main ones from the SOE side. One kind is paid by SOE -- there probably aren't many of those. SOE is notoriously cheap, and paying such people would be beyond budget. I'm sure a few exist, and I am sure they are among the phoniest sounding posters here. The second is there is an organized campaign among a few of the most ardent SOE lovers to sell this game, and to "combat the lies the vets tell," which is bull, since, as a current player, I know most of the time the vets are the ones telling the truth, and these folks are the ones lying. These are the strangest breed of viral marketers, since they do it for free. Every so often a new campaign starts on the official boards and is brought over here. The threads have been reproduced and we have seen them. the point really is, is it effective? No. The more people talk about it, the more the truth gets out -- so the viral marketer hurts things more than he helps. In his attempt to discredit the vets, he gives them credibility. The more people talk about it, the more people will know what SOE did and how craoppy the game still is. It's all good, in the long run. In the free market of communication, the shills lose.
I don't disagree with anything you wrote , I'd just like to point out I was being pretty specific about the posters I was describing , I was basically agreeing with hastor , I also stated it's rare to cross a poster like that, if you missed it :P.
You can't be specific when you are speaking generally.
The only thing that really bugs me is that some people always claim someone is a viral marketer when they disagree.
I am not doubting that such devious ploys exist, I am merely uncomfortable with how easily someone can be accused of such a thing just because they do not agree with the views others have.
I call em like I see em. In the game sometimes the get something RIGHT (game update 5 looks good, viable faction armor) other times they get it wrong (NGE, no classic server, constant profession nerf cycles, bugs etc,) but again these are just my opinions. When someone strongly disagrees with me, I do not say --- ooo well you must be on <insert company/game product here>.
Frankly, I think most people here have some real points in their perspective and viral marketer attack just diminishes the merits of discussion.
I look at it as a write off and nothing more , comments like that rarely come from productive debaters anyway.It's a tool employed to diminish an opinion that they otherwise couldn't refute.
As an example Poster (A) posts " I'm a pre-cu vet , Tried my free trial, enjoyed my time ingame " Poster (B) Replies " Lies , No pre-cu vet would enjoy NGE. You must be an SOE employee."
How do you respond to such a statement ? IMO you don't , Toss the asshatery aside , AND you're left with little substance. Poster b obviously has no interest in discusion , His/her motive is to bait (A) into a nonsensical slugfest. Leave it and move on , Best way to handle a troll IMO . As hard as it can be at times .
Actually, that's not how it goes most of the time. The people who are accused of being a viral marketer are either people who try and say it's okay to lie cheat and steal; people who flame and attack vets and call them mentally ill, and people who continually come on these forums to preach about how much they love a game and a company.
Those people usually express themselves in a way that sounds like marketese. Now, the fact is, there are two forms of "viral marketers" we have here (well, more but these two are the main ones from the SOE side. One kind is paid by SOE -- there probably aren't many of those. SOE is notoriously cheap, and paying such people would be beyond budget. I'm sure a few exist, and I am sure they are among the phoniest sounding posters here.
The second is there is an organized campaign among a few of the most ardent SOE lovers to sell this game, and to "combat the lies the vets tell," which is bull, since, as a current player, I know most of the time the vets are the ones telling the truth, and these folks are the ones lying. These are the strangest breed of viral marketers, since they do it for free.
Every so often a new campaign starts on the official boards and is brought over here. The threads have been reproduced and we have seen them.
the point really is, is it effective? No. The more people talk about it, the more the truth gets out -- so the viral marketer hurts things more than he helps. In his attempt to discredit the vets, he gives them credibility. The more people talk about it, the more people will know what SOE did and how craoppy the game still is.
It's all good, in the long run. In the free market of communication, the shills lose.
I don't disagree with anything you wrote , I'd just like to point out I was being pretty specific about the posters I was describing , I was basically agreeing with hastor , I also stated it's rare to cross a poster like that, if you missed it :P.
You can't be specific when you are speaking generally.
That would be why I wasn't speaking generally .I made a specific claim about a specific type of poster .
the only general statement in my post was , "comments like that rarely come from productive debaters"
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Lots of people guilty of fraud are not in jail. If there is no "we," then you have no reason to try and tell people how to react when they don't like a company's practices.
After recent events in the industry , Where does the line between Lack of foresight and fraud cross ? SO many games lately have led people to pre-order on the notion that mechanic B and class A will be in the game , Only to say at launch or close to ,they will be taking mechanic B or Class A out . This is essentially the same exact thing SOE did to those who pre-ordered TOOW. Yet none of those companys have even refunded those pre-orders, Is there a protection that covers software developers in this area ?
Knowingly and willingly violating your customer's trust is fraud.
The question always is, what did they know and when did they know it? IN the case of SOE, it is obvious. WE have learned from dan Rubenfeld that they KNEW they were removing ranger at the same time they advertized a revamp and improvement to the class.
That was fraud.
Since you refuse to brind up specifics, it is impossible to even discuss the other cases. Fraud is easy to see, but difficult to prove, unless someone spills the beans. In the case of SWG, that has happened.
In the case of SWG , You have an admission . In other cases this isn't the case . AOC , WAR are two notable examples of recent questionable practices. Yet without a written admission , It's all up to speculation . That's why I didn't go into specifics , I don't deal in spectulation .
I was asking a question ,about protections in sofware development more than anything.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by Malickiebloo
Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by HastorHadron
The only thing that really bugs me is that some people always claim someone is a viral marketer when they disagree.
I am not doubting that such devious ploys exist, I am merely uncomfortable with how easily someone can be accused of such a thing just because they do not agree with the views others have.
I call em like I see em. In the game sometimes the get something RIGHT (game update 5 looks good, viable faction armor) other times they get it wrong (NGE, no classic server, constant profession nerf cycles, bugs etc,) but again these are just my opinions. When someone strongly disagrees with me, I do not say --- ooo well you must be on <insert company/game product here>. Frankly, I think most people here have some real points in their perspective and viral marketer attack just diminishes the merits of discussion.
I look at it as a write off and nothing more , comments like that rarely come from productive debaters anyway.It's a tool employed to diminish an opinion that they otherwise couldn't refute. As an example Poster (A) posts " I'm a pre-cu vet , Tried my free trial, enjoyed my time ingame " Poster (B) Replies " Lies , No pre-cu vet would enjoy NGE. You must be an SOE employee." How do you respond to such a statement ? IMO you don't , Toss the asshatery aside , AND you're left with little substance. Poster b obviously has no interest in discusion , His/her motive is to bait (A) into a nonsensical slugfest. Leave it and move on , Best way to handle a troll IMO . As hard as it can be at times . Actually, that's not how it goes most of the time. The people who are accused of being a viral marketer are either people who try and say it's okay to lie cheat and steal; people who flame and attack vets and call them mentally ill, and people who continually come on these forums to preach about how much they love a game and a company.
Those people usually express themselves in a way that sounds like marketese. Now, the fact is, there are two forms of "viral marketers" we have here (well, more but these two are the main ones from the SOE side. One kind is paid by SOE -- there probably aren't many of those. SOE is notoriously cheap, and paying such people would be beyond budget. I'm sure a few exist, and I am sure they are among the phoniest sounding posters here. The second is there is an organized campaign among a few of the most ardent SOE lovers to sell this game, and to "combat the lies the vets tell," which is bull, since, as a current player, I know most of the time the vets are the ones telling the truth, and these folks are the ones lying. These are the strangest breed of viral marketers, since they do it for free. Every so often a new campaign starts on the official boards and is brought over here. The threads have been reproduced and we have seen them. the point really is, is it effective? No. The more people talk about it, the more the truth gets out -- so the viral marketer hurts things more than he helps. In his attempt to discredit the vets, he gives them credibility. The more people talk about it, the more people will know what SOE did and how craoppy the game still is. It's all good, in the long run. In the free market of communication, the shills lose. I don't disagree with anything you wrote , I'd just like to point out I was being pretty specific about the posters I was describing , I was basically agreeing with hastor , I also stated it's rare to cross a poster like that, if you missed it :P.
You can't be specific when you are speaking generally.
That would be why I wasn't speaking generally .I made a specific claim about a specific type of poster . the only general statement in my post was , "comments like that rarely come from productive debaters"
The only problem is, there are no such specific "types" of posters. I know of no posters who actually say what you are describing. Even if some people may sound like that some of the time, no one sounds like that all of the time, and very few sound like that even much of the time. It rarely comes from ANY debaters. It's just not the true dynamic of the people who accuse others of being viral marketers.
I didn't miss it, I just didn't consider it, since you used so much qualifying and subjective languge (rarely coming from those YOU deem productive) I just don't think the rare is worth considering in a discussion of what generally goes on on these boards. I feel such a discussion isn't productive at all; in fact it serves only to stain the discussion and diffuse as well as obfuscate things. This would exactly be a viral marketers goal in such a discussion.
Now, I don't think YOU are a viral marketer. I do think you are however, often non-productive in your "playing" at Devil's Advocate. I feel the infernal one has far too many real advocates in this world we live in, and it saddens me when I see people who are NOT in his employ serve his ends.
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by Malickiebloo
Originally posted by Fishermage
Lots of people guilty of fraud are not in jail. If there is no "we," then you have no reason to try and tell people how to react when they don't like a company's practices.
After recent events in the industry , Where does the line between Lack of foresight and fraud cross ? SO many games lately have led people to pre-order on the notion that mechanic B and class A will be in the game , Only to say at launch or close to ,they will be taking mechanic B or Class A out . This is essentially the same exact thing SOE did to those who pre-ordered TOOW. Yet none of those companys have even refunded those pre-orders, Is there a protection that covers software developers in this area ?
Knowingly and willingly violating your customer's trust is fraud. The question always is, what did they know and when did they know it? IN the case of SOE, it is obvious. WE have learned from dan Rubenfeld that they KNEW they were removing ranger at the same time they advertized a revamp and improvement to the class. That was fraud. Since you refuse to brind up specifics, it is impossible to even discuss the other cases. Fraud is easy to see, but difficult to prove, unless someone spills the beans. In the case of SWG, that has happened. In the case of SWG , You have an admission . In other cases this isn't the case . AOC , WAR are two notable examples of recent questionable practices. Yet without a written admission , It's all up to speculation . That's why I didn't go into specifics , I don't deal in spectulation . I was asking a question ,about protections in sofware development more than anything.
The only thing that really bugs me is that some people always claim someone is a viral marketer when they disagree.
I am not doubting that such devious ploys exist, I am merely uncomfortable with how easily someone can be accused of such a thing just because they do not agree with the views others have.
I call em like I see em. In the game sometimes the get something RIGHT (game update 5 looks good, viable faction armor) other times they get it wrong (NGE, no classic server, constant profession nerf cycles, bugs etc,) but again these are just my opinions. When someone strongly disagrees with me, I do not say --- ooo well you must be on <insert company/game product here>.
Frankly, I think most people here have some real points in their perspective and viral marketer attack just diminishes the merits of discussion.
I look at it as a write off and nothing more , comments like that rarely come from productive debaters anyway.It's a tool employed to diminish an opinion that they otherwise couldn't refute.
As an example Poster (A) posts " I'm a pre-cu vet , Tried my free trial, enjoyed my time ingame " Poster (B) Replies " Lies , No pre-cu vet would enjoy NGE. You must be an SOE employee."
How do you respond to such a statement ? IMO you don't , Toss the asshatery aside , AND you're left with little substance. Poster b obviously has no interest in discusion , His/her motive is to bait (A) into a nonsensical slugfest. Leave it and move on , Best way to handle a troll IMO . As hard as it can be at times .
Actually, that's not how it goes most of the time. The people who are accused of being a viral marketer are either people who try and say it's okay to lie cheat and steal; people who flame and attack vets and call them mentally ill, and people who continually come on these forums to preach about how much they love a game and a company.
Those people usually express themselves in a way that sounds like marketese. Now, the fact is, there are two forms of "viral marketers" we have here (well, more but these two are the main ones from the SOE side. One kind is paid by SOE -- there probably aren't many of those. SOE is notoriously cheap, and paying such people would be beyond budget. I'm sure a few exist, and I am sure they are among the phoniest sounding posters here.
The second is there is an organized campaign among a few of the most ardent SOE lovers to sell this game, and to "combat the lies the vets tell," which is bull, since, as a current player, I know most of the time the vets are the ones telling the truth, and these folks are the ones lying. These are the strangest breed of viral marketers, since they do it for free.
Every so often a new campaign starts on the official boards and is brought over here. The threads have been reproduced and we have seen them.
the point really is, is it effective? No. The more people talk about it, the more the truth gets out -- so the viral marketer hurts things more than he helps. In his attempt to discredit the vets, he gives them credibility. The more people talk about it, the more people will know what SOE did and how craoppy the game still is.
It's all good, in the long run. In the free market of communication, the shills lose.
I don't disagree with anything you wrote , I'd just like to point out I was being pretty specific about the posters I was describing , I was basically agreeing with hastor , I also stated it's rare to cross a poster like that, if you missed it :P.
You can't be specific when you are speaking generally.
That would be why I wasn't speaking generally .I made a specific claim about a specific type of poster .
the only general statement in my post was , "comments like that rarely come from productive debaters"
The only problem is, there are no such specific "types" of posters. I know of no posters who actually say what you are describing. Even if some people may sound like that some of the time, no one sounds like that all of the time, and very few sound like that even much of the time. It rarely comes from ANY debaters. It's just not the true dynamic of the people who accuse others of being viral marketers.
I didn't miss it, I just didn't consider it, since you used so much qualifying and subjective languge (rarely coming from those YOU deem productive) I just don't think the rare is worth considering in a discussion of what generally goes on on these boards. I feel such a discussion isn't productive at all; in fact it serves only to stain the discussion and diffuse as well as obfuscate things. This would exactly be a viral marketers goal in such a discussion.
Now, I don't think YOU are a viral marketer. I do think you are however, often non-productive in your "playing" at Devil's Advocate. I feel the infernal one has far too many real advocates in this world we live in, and it saddens me when I see people who are NOT in his employ serve his ends.
I don't know what your arguing with me about , I basically said what you did in reply to hastor , I acknowledged who he was describing with an example , And said posts like that aren't worth the argument. I wasn't making a broader statement (I guess that's what your implying) , Or playing the role of devils advocate.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by Malickiebloo
Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by Malickiebloo
Originally posted by HastorHadron
The only thing that really bugs me is that some people always claim someone is a viral marketer when they disagree.
I am not doubting that such devious ploys exist, I am merely uncomfortable with how easily someone can be accused of such a thing just because they do not agree with the views others have.
I call em like I see em. In the game sometimes the get something RIGHT (game update 5 looks good, viable faction armor) other times they get it wrong (NGE, no classic server, constant profession nerf cycles, bugs etc,) but again these are just my opinions. When someone strongly disagrees with me, I do not say --- ooo well you must be on <insert company/game product here>. Frankly, I think most people here have some real points in their perspective and viral marketer attack just diminishes the merits of discussion.
I look at it as a write off and nothing more , comments like that rarely come from productive debaters anyway.It's a tool employed to diminish an opinion that they otherwise couldn't refute. As an example Poster (A) posts " I'm a pre-cu vet , Tried my free trial, enjoyed my time ingame " Poster (B) Replies " Lies , No pre-cu vet would enjoy NGE. You must be an SOE employee." How do you respond to such a statement ? IMO you don't , Toss the asshatery aside , AND you're left with little substance. Poster b obviously has no interest in discusion , His/her motive is to bait (A) into a nonsensical slugfest. Leave it and move on , Best way to handle a troll IMO . As hard as it can be at times .
Actually, that's not how it goes most of the time. The people who are accused of being a viral marketer are either people who try and say it's okay to lie cheat and steal; people who flame and attack vets and call them mentally ill, and people who continually come on these forums to preach about how much they love a game and a company.
Those people usually express themselves in a way that sounds like marketese. Now, the fact is, there are two forms of "viral marketers" we have here (well, more but these two are the main ones from the SOE side. One kind is paid by SOE -- there probably aren't many of those. SOE is notoriously cheap, and paying such people would be beyond budget. I'm sure a few exist, and I am sure they are among the phoniest sounding posters here. The second is there is an organized campaign among a few of the most ardent SOE lovers to sell this game, and to "combat the lies the vets tell," which is bull, since, as a current player, I know most of the time the vets are the ones telling the truth, and these folks are the ones lying. These are the strangest breed of viral marketers, since they do it for free. Every so often a new campaign starts on the official boards and is brought over here. The threads have been reproduced and we have seen them. the point really is, is it effective? No. The more people talk about it, the more the truth gets out -- so the viral marketer hurts things more than he helps. In his attempt to discredit the vets, he gives them credibility. The more people talk about it, the more people will know what SOE did and how craoppy the game still is. It's all good, in the long run. In the free market of communication, the shills lose.
I don't disagree with anything you wrote , I'd just like to point out I was being pretty specific about the posters I was describing , I was basically agreeing with hastor , I also stated it's rare to cross a poster like that, if you missed it :P.
You can't be specific when you are speaking generally.
That would be why I wasn't speaking generally .I made a specific claim about a specific type of poster . the only general statement in my post was , "comments like that rarely come from productive debaters"
The only problem is, there are no such specific "types" of posters. I know of no posters who actually say what you are describing. Even if some people may sound like that some of the time, no one sounds like that all of the time, and very few sound like that even much of the time. It rarely comes from ANY debaters. It's just not the true dynamic of the people who accuse others of being viral marketers. I didn't miss it, I just didn't consider it, since you used so much qualifying and subjective languge (rarely coming from those YOU deem productive) I just don't think the rare is worth considering in a discussion of what generally goes on on these boards. I feel such a discussion isn't productive at all; in fact it serves only to stain the discussion and diffuse as well as obfuscate things. This would exactly be a viral marketers goal in such a discussion. Now, I don't think YOU are a viral marketer. I do think you are however, often non-productive in your "playing" at Devil's Advocate. I feel the infernal one has far too many real advocates in this world we live in, and it saddens me when I see people who are NOT in his employ serve his ends.
I don't know what your arguing with me about , I basically said what you did in reply to hastor , I acknowledged who he was describing with an example , And said posts like that aren't worth the argument. I wasn't making a broader statement (I guess that's what your implying) , Or playing the role of devils advocate.
If I'm wrong I'm sorry. It just always seems you are, and in this case as well. I feel I can always count on you to argue the company line, or whip out the "everyone is evil" rationalization, as several others do here. It is hard to believe that someone who is not paid to do so would do so, when there are so many people around here who seem that they ARE paid to do so. Why serve their interests for free?
Now, I don't think YOU are a viral marketer. I do think you are however, often non-productive in your "playing" at Devil's Advocate. I feel the infernal one has far too many real advocates in this world we live in, and it saddens me when I see people who are NOT in his employ serve his ends.
This deserves a reply of it's own . At this point I don't assume a role of for or against SOE , If that's the "infernal one" you mention . I really never have cared enough to take a stand either way. I had already quit due to CU when they unleashed NGE , I tried it, had a few fun pvp battles on bloodfin and quit that's about the extent of my NGE experience ,and I've never been shy to share it .
If some of my views seem to " serve those ends " there's not much I can do about that , it's a worthless topic to debate anyway .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Fishermage Now, I don't think YOU are a viral marketer. I do think you are however, often non-productive in your "playing" at Devil's Advocate. I feel the infernal one has far too many real advocates in this world we live in, and it saddens me when I see people who are NOT in his employ serve his ends.
This deserves a reply of it's own . At this point I don't assume a role of for or against SOE , If that's the "infernal one" you mention . I really never have cared enough to take a stand either way. I had already quit due to CU when they unleashed NGE , I tried it, had a few fun pvp battles on bloodfin and quit that's about the extent of my NGE experience ,and I've never been shy to share it . If some of my views seem to " serve those ends " there's not much I can do about that , it's a worthless topic to debate anyway .
I seems to me we can always count on you to regurgitate the company line. In not taking a stand, you seem to always state quite clearly one side of the equation. And yes, in this case, the Infernal One, or the Devil in your devil's advocacy, is obviously SOE, in that this is a forum dedicated to discussing what SOE did.
For someone who claims to not have a horse in this race, you seem to back one particular horse an awful lot; and it isn't the victims of SOE's fraud. It boggles my mind taht someone who, even if they are not or were not "personally" affected by some evil, no matter how great or small, would take the bad guy's side so many times as you do. I just don't understand the mindset in that the good guys are always outnumbered in this world. Why take the bad guy's side for the heck of it?
This is what I see you do over and over again, for years now, and I find it quite odd.
If I'm wrong I'm sorry. It just always seems you are, and in this case as well. I feel I can always count on you to argue the company line, or whip out the "everyone is evil" rationalization, as several others do here. It is hard to believe that someone who is not paid to do so would do so, when there are so many people around here who seem that they ARE paid to do so. Why serve their interests for free? I just don't see the productivity in that.
I've rarely ever taken the side of SOE , There are probably exceptions depending on the subject . But if I ever comment in regard to NGE it's usually in responce to broad statements about players , Or where claims of "all vets feel this way" are concerned . When it comes to SWG or any game for that matter I shy away from debates about gameplay , Populations Content etc...etc... That's all subjective outlooks on a game , No reason to debate it IMO .
I don't see the prodctivity in a lot of discussions that take place here . But you have to burn time some how.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by zymurgeist Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by zymurgeist
All business ethics are questionable from a consumers point of view. If it were fraud people would have gone to jail. Smedly isn't doing time so obviously his legal staff is better than yours. If you don't like a compnies practices don't buy their products. There is no "we". Your opinion is your own. Don't expect everyone to fall into lockstep because you think or feel that way. Does viral marketing exist? Yes. Does SoE do it? Maybe. Does it work? Sometimes.
Lots of people guilty of fraud are not in jail. If there is no "we," then you have no reason to try and tell people how to react when they don't like a company's practices.
I'm sorry .if you don't like a companies practices by all means feel free to buy their products. Far be it from me to suggest you wouldn't or shouldn't buy their products. As for the companies using negative viral marketing I very much doubt it. For viral marketing to work you need to find a receptive audience and game forums don't respond well to negativity. Mostly it just creates the sort of shouting matches fanbois and haters seem to thrive on. Winning people over to your side is more of hearts and minds activity that requires one to be positive. More "I think you would enjoy this" than "That game sucks. if you play this you should die in a fire. Game xxx rulz ."
I was merely responding to the fact that you claimed there was no 'we' and at the same time were issuing commands to a group. I found that amusing and commented on it. It wasn't the content of your edict but the fact that you issued one in the context of what you said that I found amusing.
As to the "negative viral marketing" thing, this is why I feel that almost all the viral marketers ARE the ones who jump in and troll about how they just tried/came back, and the game is sooper...and those are the people who usually get accused of being viral marketers on these boards, NOT the hate-filled SOE fans who attack the mental illness of vets. Those people are just trolls with a darkness in their hearts.
SOE HAS already been caught doing that type (positive viral marketing), and taht's the kind I think they sometimes practice on these boards.
I do however believe that sometimes. the DEVs themselves, who aren't the brightest bulbs in the chandelier when it comes to human interaction, do tread these boards, DO get angry, and DO make up phony names to post under, just to attack vets.
THAT makes far more sense than paid professionals screwing themselves with negative viral marketing.
Now, I don't think YOU are a viral marketer. I do think you are however, often non-productive in your "playing" at Devil's Advocate. I feel the infernal one has far too many real advocates in this world we live in, and it saddens me when I see people who are NOT in his employ serve his ends.
This deserves a reply of it's own . At this point I don't assume a role of for or against SOE , If that's the "infernal one" you mention . I really never have cared enough to take a stand either way. I had already quit due to CU when they unleashed NGE , I tried it, had a few fun pvp battles on bloodfin and quit that's about the extent of my NGE experience ,and I've never been shy to share it .
If some of my views seem to " serve those ends " there's not much I can do about that , it's a worthless topic to debate anyway .
I seems to me we can always count on you to regurgitate the company line. In not taking a stand, you seem to always state quite clearly one side of the equation. And yes, in this case, the Infernal One, or the Devil in your devil's advocacy, is obviously SOE, in that this is a forum dedicated to discussing what SOE did.
For someone who claims to not have a horse in this race, you seem to back one particular horse an awful lot; and it isn't the victims of SOE's fraud. It boggles my mind taht someone who, even if they are not or were not "personally" affected by some evil, no matter how great or small, would take the bad guy's side so many times as you do. I just don't understand the mindset in that the good guys are always outnumbered in this world. Why take the bad guy's side for the heck of it?
This is what I see you do over and over again, for years now, and I find it quite odd.
A perspective that isn't their own , Must be that of the enemies.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Fishermage
If I'm wrong I'm sorry. It just always seems you are, and in this case as well. I feel I can always count on you to argue the company line, or whip out the "everyone is evil" rationalization, as several others do here. It is hard to believe that someone who is not paid to do so would do so, when there are so many people around here who seem that they ARE paid to do so. Why serve their interests for free? I just don't see the productivity in that.
I've rarely ever taken the side of SOE , There are probably exceptions depending on the subject . But if I ever comment in regard to NGE it's usually in responce to broad statements about players , Or where claims of "all vets feel this way" are concerned . When it comes to SWG or any game for that matter I shy away from debates about gameplay , Populations Content etc...etc... That's all subjective outlooks on a game , No reason to debate it IMO . I don't see the prodctivity in a lot of discussions that take place here . But you have to burn time some how.
Well is see you always taking the side of SOE, and if it's just to burn time, I find that odd, and non productive. This is almost never a discussion about gameplay, and almost always a discussion about ethiccs, which is what I and everyone in this thread was obviously discussing, and for some reason, you are shfting context...curious to say the least. You seem to do that a lot as well.
I rarely see anyone actually SAY "all" vets feel a certain way; merely people who say "vets" feel this way. Then the other person hyperliteralizes that and starts the 'all" nonsense in an argument.
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by Malickiebloo
Originally posted by Fishermage
Now, I don't think YOU are a viral marketer. I do think you are however, often non-productive in your "playing" at Devil's Advocate. I feel the infernal one has far too many real advocates in this world we live in, and it saddens me when I see people who are NOT in his employ serve his ends.
This deserves a reply of it's own . At this point I don't assume a role of for or against SOE , If that's the "infernal one" you mention . I really never have cared enough to take a stand either way. I had already quit due to CU when they unleashed NGE , I tried it, had a few fun pvp battles on bloodfin and quit that's about the extent of my NGE experience ,and I've never been shy to share it . If some of my views seem to " serve those ends " there's not much I can do about that , it's a worthless topic to debate anyway .
I seems to me we can always count on you to regurgitate the company line. In not taking a stand, you seem to always state quite clearly one side of the equation. And yes, in this case, the Infernal One, or the Devil in your devil's advocacy, is obviously SOE, in that this is a forum dedicated to discussing what SOE did. For someone who claims to not have a horse in this race, you seem to back one particular horse an awful lot; and it isn't the victims of SOE's fraud. It boggles my mind taht someone who, even if they are not or were not "personally" affected by some evil, no matter how great or small, would take the bad guy's side so many times as you do. I just don't understand the mindset in that the good guys are always outnumbered in this world. Why take the bad guy's side for the heck of it? This is what I see you do over and over again, for years now, and I find it quite odd.
A perspective that isn't their own , Must be that of the enemies.
Not always, but when one consistently does as often as you, one wonders. This iw why I always wonder about you. This is a consistent theme in your posts. For someone who does this to just pas sthe time I find it odd.
Again, I seem to have to repeat this, I am as always just wondering WHY. Then you answer it is because you are bored. That seems even weirder to me.
If I'm wrong I'm sorry. It just always seems you are, and in this case as well. I feel I can always count on you to argue the company line, or whip out the "everyone is evil" rationalization, as several others do here. It is hard to believe that someone who is not paid to do so would do so, when there are so many people around here who seem that they ARE paid to do so. Why serve their interests for free?
I just don't see the productivity in that.
I've rarely ever taken the side of SOE , There are probably exceptions depending on the subject . But if I ever comment in regard to NGE it's usually in responce to broad statements about players , Or where claims of "all vets feel this way" are concerned . When it comes to SWG or any game for that matter I shy away from debates about gameplay , Populations Content etc...etc... That's all subjective outlooks on a game , No reason to debate it IMO .
I don't see the prodctivity in a lot of discussions that take place here . But you have to burn time some how.
Well is see you always taking the side of SOE, and if it's just to burn time, I find that odd, and non productive. This is almost never a discussion about gameplay, and almost always a discussion about ethiccs, which is what I and everyone in this thread was obviously discussing, and for some reason, you are shfting context...curious to say the least. You seem to do that a lot as well.
I rarely see anyone actually SAY "all" vets feel a certain way; merely people who say "vets" feel this way. Then the other person hyperliteralizes that and starts the 'all" nonsense in an argument.
Well last time I checked, I didn't create this forum account in order to please you ,Or ask you how I should use it.
Shifting context ? how did we get here?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by zymurgeist Originally posted by Fishermage
I was merely responding to the fact that you claimed there was no 'we' and at the same time were issuing commands to a group. I found that amusing and commented on it. It wasn't the content of your edict but the fact that you issued one in the context of what you said that I found amusing. As to the "negative viral marketing" thing, this is why I feel that almost all the viral marketers ARE the ones who jump in and troll about how they just tried/came back, and the game is sooper...and those are the people who usually get accused of being viral marketers on these boards, NOT the hate-filled SOE fans who attack the mental illness of vets. Those people are just trolls with a darkness in their hearts. SOE HAS already been caught doing that type (positive viral marketing), and taht's the kind I think they sometimes practice on these boards. I do however believe that sometimes. the DEVs themselves, who aren't the brightest bulbs in the chandelier when it comes to human interaction, do tread these boards, DO get angry, and DO make up phony names to post under, just to attack vets. THAT makes far more sense than paid professionals screwing themselves with negative viral marketing.
Hardly a command. A command implies some sort of authority. A command from a forum poster would be akin to "You will obey the directives of some random person for no apparent reason!" Fans possibly. Devs maybe if they were really stupid and came from a very small company. Any company of any size would be very upset to learn their employees were undermining their maketing efforts with something that counterproductive. Although as much as forumites like to demand developers interact with them I'm beginning to think any contact with potential customers by anyone but marketing is counterproductive. Even marketing departments generally just make things worse when things begin to go wrong.
No, a command is a form of speech. When you tell people to do something, whether you have authority or not, you have issued a command.
Even if the worked for a large company, if they were really stupid they MIGHT do it, and yes it would undermine them. I also see SOE doing a great many things that are really stupid, so I wouldn't put it past them to allow such behavior.
I see that it is prducctive when you are good, non-productive when you are bad. SOE falls into the latter category, obviously.
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by Malickiebloo
Originally posted by Fishermage
If I'm wrong I'm sorry. It just always seems you are, and in this case as well. I feel I can always count on you to argue the company line, or whip out the "everyone is evil" rationalization, as several others do here. It is hard to believe that someone who is not paid to do so would do so, when there are so many people around here who seem that they ARE paid to do so. Why serve their interests for free? I just don't see the productivity in that.
I've rarely ever taken the side of SOE , There are probably exceptions depending on the subject . But if I ever comment in regard to NGE it's usually in responce to broad statements about players , Or where claims of "all vets feel this way" are concerned . When it comes to SWG or any game for that matter I shy away from debates about gameplay , Populations Content etc...etc... That's all subjective outlooks on a game , No reason to debate it IMO . I don't see the prodctivity in a lot of discussions that take place here . But you have to burn time some how.
Well is see you always taking the side of SOE, and if it's just to burn time, I find that odd, and non productive. This is almost never a discussion about gameplay, and almost always a discussion about ethiccs, which is what I and everyone in this thread was obviously discussing, and for some reason, you are shfting context...curious to say the least. You seem to do that a lot as well. I rarely see anyone actually SAY "all" vets feel a certain way; merely people who say "vets" feel this way. Then the other person hyperliteralizes that and starts the 'all" nonsense in an argument. Well last time I checked, I didn't create this forum account in order to please you ,Or ask you how I should use it. Shifting context ? how did we get here?
NO need to get so testy about it all. We got here by you shifting context. The OP was speaking of ethics, not gameplay, and you shifted context to gameplay.
If I'm wrong I'm sorry. It just always seems you are, and in this case as well. I feel I can always count on you to argue the company line, or whip out the "everyone is evil" rationalization, as several others do here. It is hard to believe that someone who is not paid to do so would do so, when there are so many people around here who seem that they ARE paid to do so. Why serve their interests for free?
I just don't see the productivity in that.
I've rarely ever taken the side of SOE , There are probably exceptions depending on the subject . But if I ever comment in regard to NGE it's usually in responce to broad statements about players , Or where claims of "all vets feel this way" are concerned . When it comes to SWG or any game for that matter I shy away from debates about gameplay , Populations Content etc...etc... That's all subjective outlooks on a game , No reason to debate it IMO .
I don't see the prodctivity in a lot of discussions that take place here . But you have to burn time some how.
Well is see you always taking the side of SOE, and if it's just to burn time, I find that odd, and non productive. This is almost never a discussion about gameplay, and almost always a discussion about ethiccs, which is what I and everyone in this thread was obviously discussing, and for some reason, you are shfting context...curious to say the least. You seem to do that a lot as well.
I rarely see anyone actually SAY "all" vets feel a certain way; merely people who say "vets" feel this way. Then the other person hyperliteralizes that and starts the 'all" nonsense in an argument.
Well last time I checked, I didn't create this forum account in order to please you ,Or ask you how I should use it.
Shifting context ? how did we get here?
NO need to get so testy about it all. We got here by you shifting context. The OP was speaking of ethics, not gameplay, and you shifted context to gameplay.
You can't be serious /block
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Since on of my links started this whole thread, I'll share an other link that explains quite nicely most of the "negative" viral marketing (the unpaid kind) that goes on here:
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by Malickiebloo
Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Fishermage
If I'm wrong I'm sorry. It just always seems you are, and in this case as well. I feel I can always count on you to argue the company line, or whip out the "everyone is evil" rationalization, as several others do here. It is hard to believe that someone who is not paid to do so would do so, when there are so many people around here who seem that they ARE paid to do so. Why serve their interests for free? I just don't see the productivity in that.
I've rarely ever taken the side of SOE , There are probably exceptions depending on the subject . But if I ever comment in regard to NGE it's usually in responce to broad statements about players , Or where claims of "all vets feel this way" are concerned . When it comes to SWG or any game for that matter I shy away from debates about gameplay , Populations Content etc...etc... That's all subjective outlooks on a game , No reason to debate it IMO . I don't see the prodctivity in a lot of discussions that take place here . But you have to burn time some how.
Well is see you always taking the side of SOE, and if it's just to burn time, I find that odd, and non productive. This is almost never a discussion about gameplay, and almost always a discussion about ethiccs, which is what I and everyone in this thread was obviously discussing, and for some reason, you are shfting context...curious to say the least. You seem to do that a lot as well. I rarely see anyone actually SAY "all" vets feel a certain way; merely people who say "vets" feel this way. Then the other person hyperliteralizes that and starts the 'all" nonsense in an argument. Well last time I checked, I didn't create this forum account in order to please you ,Or ask you how I should use it. Shifting context ? how did we get here?
NO need to get so testy about it all. We got here by you shifting context. The OP was speaking of ethics, not gameplay, and you shifted context to gameplay. You can't be serious /block Not even sure the meaning of that statement in this context. Obviously I mean what I say; I always do. Seems you are just continuing to try and obfuscate things now.
If I'm wrong I'm sorry. It just always seems you are, and in this case as well. I feel I can always count on you to argue the company line, or whip out the "everyone is evil" rationalization, as several others do here. It is hard to believe that someone who is not paid to do so would do so, when there are so many people around here who seem that they ARE paid to do so. Why serve their interests for free?
I just don't see the productivity in that.
I've rarely ever taken the side of SOE , There are probably exceptions depending on the subject . But if I ever comment in regard to NGE it's usually in responce to broad statements about players , Or where claims of "all vets feel this way" are concerned . When it comes to SWG or any game for that matter I shy away from debates about gameplay , Populations Content etc...etc... That's all subjective outlooks on a game , No reason to debate it IMO .
I don't see the prodctivity in a lot of discussions that take place here . But you have to burn time some how.
Well is see you always taking the side of SOE, and if it's just to burn time, I find that odd, and non productive. This is almost never a discussion about gameplay, and almost always a discussion about ethiccs, which is what I and everyone in this thread was obviously discussing, and for some reason, you are shfting context...curious to say the least. You seem to do that a lot as well.
I rarely see anyone actually SAY "all" vets feel a certain way; merely people who say "vets" feel this way. Then the other person hyperliteralizes that and starts the 'all" nonsense in an argument.
Well last time I checked, I didn't create this forum account in order to please you ,Or ask you how I should use it.
Shifting context ? how did we get here?
NO need to get so testy about it all. We got here by you shifting context. The OP was speaking of ethics, not gameplay, and you shifted context to gameplay.
You can't be serious /block
Not even sure the meaning of that statement in this context. Obviously I mean what I say; I always do. Seems you are just continuing to try and obfuscate things now.
It's completely obvious after seeing that comment you are baiting me , And I fell for it . I never wrote a word about game play , this thread was about viral marketing , Not ethics . The rest of us actually discussed the context of the OP , You however have done nothing but talk about fraud , And your belief in whether or not I am a SOE Viral Marketer .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
I look at it as a write off and nothing more , comments like that rarely come from productive debaters anyway.It's a tool employed to diminish an opinion that they otherwise couldn't refute.
As an example Poster (A) posts " I'm a pre-cu vet , Tried my free trial, enjoyed my time ingame " Poster (B) Replies " Lies , No pre-cu vet would enjoy NGE. You must be an SOE employee."
How do you respond to such a statement ? IMO you don't , Toss the asshatery aside , AND you're left with little substance. Poster b obviously has no interest in discusion , His/her motive is to bait (A) into a nonsensical slugfest. Leave it and move on , Best way to handle a troll IMO . As hard as it can be at times .
Actually, that's not how it goes most of the time. The people who are accused of being a viral marketer are either people who try and say it's okay to lie cheat and steal; people who flame and attack vets and call them mentally ill, and people who continually come on these forums to preach about how much they love a game and a company.
Those people usually express themselves in a way that sounds like marketese. Now, the fact is, there are two forms of "viral marketers" we have here (well, more but these two are the main ones from the SOE side. One kind is paid by SOE -- there probably aren't many of those. SOE is notoriously cheap, and paying such people would be beyond budget. I'm sure a few exist, and I am sure they are among the phoniest sounding posters here.
The second is there is an organized campaign among a few of the most ardent SOE lovers to sell this game, and to "combat the lies the vets tell," which is bull, since, as a current player, I know most of the time the vets are the ones telling the truth, and these folks are the ones lying. These are the strangest breed of viral marketers, since they do it for free.
Every so often a new campaign starts on the official boards and is brought over here. The threads have been reproduced and we have seen them.
the point really is, is it effective? No. The more people talk about it, the more the truth gets out -- so the viral marketer hurts things more than he helps. In his attempt to discredit the vets, he gives them credibility. The more people talk about it, the more people will know what SOE did and how craoppy the game still is.
It's all good, in the long run. In the free market of communication, the shills lose.
fishermage.blogspot.com
After recent events in the industry , Where does the line between Lack of foresight and fraud cross ? SO many games lately have led people to pre-order on the notion that mechanic B and class A will be in the game , Only to say at launch or close to ,they will be taking mechanic B or Class A out . This is essentially the same exact thing SOE did to those who pre-ordered TOOW. Yet none of those companies have even refunded those pre-orders, Is there a protection that covers software developers in this area ?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I look at it as a write off and nothing more , comments like that rarely come from productive debaters anyway.It's a tool employed to diminish an opinion that they otherwise couldn't refute.
As an example Poster (A) posts " I'm a pre-cu vet , Tried my free trial, enjoyed my time ingame " Poster (B) Replies " Lies , No pre-cu vet would enjoy NGE. You must be an SOE employee."
How do you respond to such a statement ? IMO you don't , Toss the asshatery aside , AND you're left with little substance. Poster b obviously has no interest in discusion , His/her motive is to bait (A) into a nonsensical slugfest. Leave it and move on , Best way to handle a troll IMO . As hard as it can be at times .
Actually, that's not how it goes most of the time. The people who are accused of being a viral marketer are either people who try and say it's okay to lie cheat and steal; people who flame and attack vets and call them mentally ill, and people who continually come on these forums to preach about how much they love a game and a company.
Those people usually express themselves in a way that sounds like marketese. Now, the fact is, there are two forms of "viral marketers" we have here (well, more but these two are the main ones from the SOE side. One kind is paid by SOE -- there probably aren't many of those. SOE is notoriously cheap, and paying such people would be beyond budget. I'm sure a few exist, and I am sure they are among the phoniest sounding posters here.
The second is there is an organized campaign among a few of the most ardent SOE lovers to sell this game, and to "combat the lies the vets tell," which is bull, since, as a current player, I know most of the time the vets are the ones telling the truth, and these folks are the ones lying. These are the strangest breed of viral marketers, since they do it for free.
Every so often a new campaign starts on the official boards and is brought over here. The threads have been reproduced and we have seen them.
the point really is, is it effective? No. The more people talk about it, the more the truth gets out -- so the viral marketer hurts things more than he helps. In his attempt to discredit the vets, he gives them credibility. The more people talk about it, the more people will know what SOE did and how craoppy the game still is.
It's all good, in the long run. In the free market of communication, the shills lose.
I don't disagree with anything you wrote , I'd just like to point out I was being pretty specific about the posters I was describing , I was basically agreeing with hastor , I also stated it's rare to cross a poster like that, if you missed it :P.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
After recent events in the industry , Where does the line between Lack of foresight and fraud cross ? SO many games lately have led people to pre-order on the notion that mechanic B and class A will be in the game , Only to say at launch or close to ,they will be taking mechanic B or Class A out . This is essentially the same exact thing SOE did to those who pre-ordered TOOW. Yet none of those companys have even refunded those pre-orders, Is there a protection that covers software developers in this area ?
Knowingly and willingly violating your customer's trust is fraud.
The question always is, what did they know and when did they know it? IN the case of SOE, it is obvious. WE have learned from dan Rubenfeld that they KNEW they were removing ranger at the same time they advertized a revamp and improvement to the class.
That was fraud.
Since you refuse to brind up specifics, it is impossible to even discuss the other cases. Fraud is easy to see, but difficult to prove, unless someone spills the beans. In the case of SWG, that has happened.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I look at it as a write off and nothing more , comments like that rarely come from productive debaters anyway.It's a tool employed to diminish an opinion that they otherwise couldn't refute.
As an example Poster (A) posts " I'm a pre-cu vet , Tried my free trial, enjoyed my time ingame " Poster (B) Replies " Lies , No pre-cu vet would enjoy NGE. You must be an SOE employee."
How do you respond to such a statement ? IMO you don't , Toss the asshatery aside , AND you're left with little substance. Poster b obviously has no interest in discusion , His/her motive is to bait (A) into a nonsensical slugfest. Leave it and move on , Best way to handle a troll IMO . As hard as it can be at times .
Actually, that's not how it goes most of the time. The people who are accused of being a viral marketer are either people who try and say it's okay to lie cheat and steal; people who flame and attack vets and call them mentally ill, and people who continually come on these forums to preach about how much they love a game and a company.
Those people usually express themselves in a way that sounds like marketese. Now, the fact is, there are two forms of "viral marketers" we have here (well, more but these two are the main ones from the SOE side. One kind is paid by SOE -- there probably aren't many of those. SOE is notoriously cheap, and paying such people would be beyond budget. I'm sure a few exist, and I am sure they are among the phoniest sounding posters here.
The second is there is an organized campaign among a few of the most ardent SOE lovers to sell this game, and to "combat the lies the vets tell," which is bull, since, as a current player, I know most of the time the vets are the ones telling the truth, and these folks are the ones lying. These are the strangest breed of viral marketers, since they do it for free.
Every so often a new campaign starts on the official boards and is brought over here. The threads have been reproduced and we have seen them.
the point really is, is it effective? No. The more people talk about it, the more the truth gets out -- so the viral marketer hurts things more than he helps. In his attempt to discredit the vets, he gives them credibility. The more people talk about it, the more people will know what SOE did and how craoppy the game still is.
It's all good, in the long run. In the free market of communication, the shills lose.
I don't disagree with anything you wrote , I'd just like to point out I was being pretty specific about the posters I was describing , I was basically agreeing with hastor , I also stated it's rare to cross a poster like that, if you missed it :P.
You can't be specific when you are speaking generally.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I look at it as a write off and nothing more , comments like that rarely come from productive debaters anyway.It's a tool employed to diminish an opinion that they otherwise couldn't refute.
As an example Poster (A) posts " I'm a pre-cu vet , Tried my free trial, enjoyed my time ingame " Poster (B) Replies " Lies , No pre-cu vet would enjoy NGE. You must be an SOE employee."
How do you respond to such a statement ? IMO you don't , Toss the asshatery aside , AND you're left with little substance. Poster b obviously has no interest in discusion , His/her motive is to bait (A) into a nonsensical slugfest. Leave it and move on , Best way to handle a troll IMO . As hard as it can be at times .
Actually, that's not how it goes most of the time. The people who are accused of being a viral marketer are either people who try and say it's okay to lie cheat and steal; people who flame and attack vets and call them mentally ill, and people who continually come on these forums to preach about how much they love a game and a company.
Those people usually express themselves in a way that sounds like marketese. Now, the fact is, there are two forms of "viral marketers" we have here (well, more but these two are the main ones from the SOE side. One kind is paid by SOE -- there probably aren't many of those. SOE is notoriously cheap, and paying such people would be beyond budget. I'm sure a few exist, and I am sure they are among the phoniest sounding posters here.
The second is there is an organized campaign among a few of the most ardent SOE lovers to sell this game, and to "combat the lies the vets tell," which is bull, since, as a current player, I know most of the time the vets are the ones telling the truth, and these folks are the ones lying. These are the strangest breed of viral marketers, since they do it for free.
Every so often a new campaign starts on the official boards and is brought over here. The threads have been reproduced and we have seen them.
the point really is, is it effective? No. The more people talk about it, the more the truth gets out -- so the viral marketer hurts things more than he helps. In his attempt to discredit the vets, he gives them credibility. The more people talk about it, the more people will know what SOE did and how craoppy the game still is.
It's all good, in the long run. In the free market of communication, the shills lose.
I don't disagree with anything you wrote , I'd just like to point out I was being pretty specific about the posters I was describing , I was basically agreeing with hastor , I also stated it's rare to cross a poster like that, if you missed it :P.
You can't be specific when you are speaking generally.
That would be why I wasn't speaking generally .I made a specific claim about a specific type of poster .
the only general statement in my post was , "comments like that rarely come from productive debaters"
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
After recent events in the industry , Where does the line between Lack of foresight and fraud cross ? SO many games lately have led people to pre-order on the notion that mechanic B and class A will be in the game , Only to say at launch or close to ,they will be taking mechanic B or Class A out . This is essentially the same exact thing SOE did to those who pre-ordered TOOW. Yet none of those companys have even refunded those pre-orders, Is there a protection that covers software developers in this area ?
Knowingly and willingly violating your customer's trust is fraud.
The question always is, what did they know and when did they know it? IN the case of SOE, it is obvious. WE have learned from dan Rubenfeld that they KNEW they were removing ranger at the same time they advertized a revamp and improvement to the class.
That was fraud.
Since you refuse to brind up specifics, it is impossible to even discuss the other cases. Fraud is easy to see, but difficult to prove, unless someone spills the beans. In the case of SWG, that has happened.
In the case of SWG , You have an admission . In other cases this isn't the case . AOC , WAR are two notable examples of recent questionable practices. Yet without a written admission , It's all up to speculation . That's why I didn't go into specifics , I don't deal in spectulation .
I was asking a question ,about protections in sofware development more than anything.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I look at it as a write off and nothing more , comments like that rarely come from productive debaters anyway.It's a tool employed to diminish an opinion that they otherwise couldn't refute.
As an example Poster (A) posts " I'm a pre-cu vet , Tried my free trial, enjoyed my time ingame " Poster (B) Replies " Lies , No pre-cu vet would enjoy NGE. You must be an SOE employee."
How do you respond to such a statement ? IMO you don't , Toss the asshatery aside , AND you're left with little substance. Poster b obviously has no interest in discusion , His/her motive is to bait (A) into a nonsensical slugfest. Leave it and move on , Best way to handle a troll IMO . As hard as it can be at times .
Actually, that's not how it goes most of the time. The people who are accused of being a viral marketer are either people who try and say it's okay to lie cheat and steal; people who flame and attack vets and call them mentally ill, and people who continually come on these forums to preach about how much they love a game and a company.
Those people usually express themselves in a way that sounds like marketese. Now, the fact is, there are two forms of "viral marketers" we have here (well, more but these two are the main ones from the SOE side. One kind is paid by SOE -- there probably aren't many of those. SOE is notoriously cheap, and paying such people would be beyond budget. I'm sure a few exist, and I am sure they are among the phoniest sounding posters here.
The second is there is an organized campaign among a few of the most ardent SOE lovers to sell this game, and to "combat the lies the vets tell," which is bull, since, as a current player, I know most of the time the vets are the ones telling the truth, and these folks are the ones lying. These are the strangest breed of viral marketers, since they do it for free.
Every so often a new campaign starts on the official boards and is brought over here. The threads have been reproduced and we have seen them.
the point really is, is it effective? No. The more people talk about it, the more the truth gets out -- so the viral marketer hurts things more than he helps. In his attempt to discredit the vets, he gives them credibility. The more people talk about it, the more people will know what SOE did and how craoppy the game still is.
It's all good, in the long run. In the free market of communication, the shills lose.
I don't disagree with anything you wrote , I'd just like to point out I was being pretty specific about the posters I was describing , I was basically agreeing with hastor , I also stated it's rare to cross a poster like that, if you missed it :P.
You can't be specific when you are speaking generally.
That would be why I wasn't speaking generally .I made a specific claim about a specific type of poster .
the only general statement in my post was , "comments like that rarely come from productive debaters"
The only problem is, there are no such specific "types" of posters. I know of no posters who actually say what you are describing. Even if some people may sound like that some of the time, no one sounds like that all of the time, and very few sound like that even much of the time. It rarely comes from ANY debaters. It's just not the true dynamic of the people who accuse others of being viral marketers.
I didn't miss it, I just didn't consider it, since you used so much qualifying and subjective languge (rarely coming from those YOU deem productive) I just don't think the rare is worth considering in a discussion of what generally goes on on these boards. I feel such a discussion isn't productive at all; in fact it serves only to stain the discussion and diffuse as well as obfuscate things. This would exactly be a viral marketers goal in such a discussion.
Now, I don't think YOU are a viral marketer. I do think you are however, often non-productive in your "playing" at Devil's Advocate. I feel the infernal one has far too many real advocates in this world we live in, and it saddens me when I see people who are NOT in his employ serve his ends.
fishermage.blogspot.com
After recent events in the industry , Where does the line between Lack of foresight and fraud cross ? SO many games lately have led people to pre-order on the notion that mechanic B and class A will be in the game , Only to say at launch or close to ,they will be taking mechanic B or Class A out . This is essentially the same exact thing SOE did to those who pre-ordered TOOW. Yet none of those companys have even refunded those pre-orders, Is there a protection that covers software developers in this area ?
Knowingly and willingly violating your customer's trust is fraud.
The question always is, what did they know and when did they know it? IN the case of SOE, it is obvious. WE have learned from dan Rubenfeld that they KNEW they were removing ranger at the same time they advertized a revamp and improvement to the class.
That was fraud.
Since you refuse to brind up specifics, it is impossible to even discuss the other cases. Fraud is easy to see, but difficult to prove, unless someone spills the beans. In the case of SWG, that has happened.
In the case of SWG , You have an admission . In other cases this isn't the case . AOC , WAR are two notable examples of recent questionable practices. Yet without a written admission , It's all up to speculation . That's why I didn't go into specifics , I don't deal in spectulation .
I was asking a question ,about protections in sofware development more than anything.
None of it covers fraud.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I look at it as a write off and nothing more , comments like that rarely come from productive debaters anyway.It's a tool employed to diminish an opinion that they otherwise couldn't refute.
As an example Poster (A) posts " I'm a pre-cu vet , Tried my free trial, enjoyed my time ingame " Poster (B) Replies " Lies , No pre-cu vet would enjoy NGE. You must be an SOE employee."
How do you respond to such a statement ? IMO you don't , Toss the asshatery aside , AND you're left with little substance. Poster b obviously has no interest in discusion , His/her motive is to bait (A) into a nonsensical slugfest. Leave it and move on , Best way to handle a troll IMO . As hard as it can be at times .
Actually, that's not how it goes most of the time. The people who are accused of being a viral marketer are either people who try and say it's okay to lie cheat and steal; people who flame and attack vets and call them mentally ill, and people who continually come on these forums to preach about how much they love a game and a company.
Those people usually express themselves in a way that sounds like marketese. Now, the fact is, there are two forms of "viral marketers" we have here (well, more but these two are the main ones from the SOE side. One kind is paid by SOE -- there probably aren't many of those. SOE is notoriously cheap, and paying such people would be beyond budget. I'm sure a few exist, and I am sure they are among the phoniest sounding posters here.
The second is there is an organized campaign among a few of the most ardent SOE lovers to sell this game, and to "combat the lies the vets tell," which is bull, since, as a current player, I know most of the time the vets are the ones telling the truth, and these folks are the ones lying. These are the strangest breed of viral marketers, since they do it for free.
Every so often a new campaign starts on the official boards and is brought over here. The threads have been reproduced and we have seen them.
the point really is, is it effective? No. The more people talk about it, the more the truth gets out -- so the viral marketer hurts things more than he helps. In his attempt to discredit the vets, he gives them credibility. The more people talk about it, the more people will know what SOE did and how craoppy the game still is.
It's all good, in the long run. In the free market of communication, the shills lose.
I don't disagree with anything you wrote , I'd just like to point out I was being pretty specific about the posters I was describing , I was basically agreeing with hastor , I also stated it's rare to cross a poster like that, if you missed it :P.
You can't be specific when you are speaking generally.
That would be why I wasn't speaking generally .I made a specific claim about a specific type of poster .
the only general statement in my post was , "comments like that rarely come from productive debaters"
The only problem is, there are no such specific "types" of posters. I know of no posters who actually say what you are describing. Even if some people may sound like that some of the time, no one sounds like that all of the time, and very few sound like that even much of the time. It rarely comes from ANY debaters. It's just not the true dynamic of the people who accuse others of being viral marketers.
I didn't miss it, I just didn't consider it, since you used so much qualifying and subjective languge (rarely coming from those YOU deem productive) I just don't think the rare is worth considering in a discussion of what generally goes on on these boards. I feel such a discussion isn't productive at all; in fact it serves only to stain the discussion and diffuse as well as obfuscate things. This would exactly be a viral marketers goal in such a discussion.
Now, I don't think YOU are a viral marketer. I do think you are however, often non-productive in your "playing" at Devil's Advocate. I feel the infernal one has far too many real advocates in this world we live in, and it saddens me when I see people who are NOT in his employ serve his ends.
I don't know what your arguing with me about , I basically said what you did in reply to hastor , I acknowledged who he was describing with an example , And said posts like that aren't worth the argument. I wasn't making a broader statement (I guess that's what your implying) , Or playing the role of devils advocate.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I look at it as a write off and nothing more , comments like that rarely come from productive debaters anyway.It's a tool employed to diminish an opinion that they otherwise couldn't refute.
As an example Poster (A) posts " I'm a pre-cu vet , Tried my free trial, enjoyed my time ingame " Poster (B) Replies " Lies , No pre-cu vet would enjoy NGE. You must be an SOE employee."
How do you respond to such a statement ? IMO you don't , Toss the asshatery aside , AND you're left with little substance. Poster b obviously has no interest in discusion , His/her motive is to bait (A) into a nonsensical slugfest. Leave it and move on , Best way to handle a troll IMO . As hard as it can be at times .
Actually, that's not how it goes most of the time. The people who are accused of being a viral marketer are either people who try and say it's okay to lie cheat and steal; people who flame and attack vets and call them mentally ill, and people who continually come on these forums to preach about how much they love a game and a company.
Those people usually express themselves in a way that sounds like marketese. Now, the fact is, there are two forms of "viral marketers" we have here (well, more but these two are the main ones from the SOE side. One kind is paid by SOE -- there probably aren't many of those. SOE is notoriously cheap, and paying such people would be beyond budget. I'm sure a few exist, and I am sure they are among the phoniest sounding posters here.
The second is there is an organized campaign among a few of the most ardent SOE lovers to sell this game, and to "combat the lies the vets tell," which is bull, since, as a current player, I know most of the time the vets are the ones telling the truth, and these folks are the ones lying. These are the strangest breed of viral marketers, since they do it for free.
Every so often a new campaign starts on the official boards and is brought over here. The threads have been reproduced and we have seen them.
the point really is, is it effective? No. The more people talk about it, the more the truth gets out -- so the viral marketer hurts things more than he helps. In his attempt to discredit the vets, he gives them credibility. The more people talk about it, the more people will know what SOE did and how craoppy the game still is.
It's all good, in the long run. In the free market of communication, the shills lose.
I don't disagree with anything you wrote , I'd just like to point out I was being pretty specific about the posters I was describing , I was basically agreeing with hastor , I also stated it's rare to cross a poster like that, if you missed it :P.
You can't be specific when you are speaking generally.
That would be why I wasn't speaking generally .I made a specific claim about a specific type of poster .
the only general statement in my post was , "comments like that rarely come from productive debaters"
The only problem is, there are no such specific "types" of posters. I know of no posters who actually say what you are describing. Even if some people may sound like that some of the time, no one sounds like that all of the time, and very few sound like that even much of the time. It rarely comes from ANY debaters. It's just not the true dynamic of the people who accuse others of being viral marketers.
I didn't miss it, I just didn't consider it, since you used so much qualifying and subjective languge (rarely coming from those YOU deem productive) I just don't think the rare is worth considering in a discussion of what generally goes on on these boards. I feel such a discussion isn't productive at all; in fact it serves only to stain the discussion and diffuse as well as obfuscate things. This would exactly be a viral marketers goal in such a discussion.
Now, I don't think YOU are a viral marketer. I do think you are however, often non-productive in your "playing" at Devil's Advocate. I feel the infernal one has far too many real advocates in this world we live in, and it saddens me when I see people who are NOT in his employ serve his ends.
I don't know what your arguing with me about , I basically said what you did in reply to hastor , I acknowledged who he was describing with an example , And said posts like that aren't worth the argument. I wasn't making a broader statement (I guess that's what your implying) , Or playing the role of devils advocate.
If I'm wrong I'm sorry. It just always seems you are, and in this case as well. I feel I can always count on you to argue the company line, or whip out the "everyone is evil" rationalization, as several others do here. It is hard to believe that someone who is not paid to do so would do so, when there are so many people around here who seem that they ARE paid to do so. Why serve their interests for free?
I just don't see the productivity in that.
fishermage.blogspot.com
This deserves a reply of it's own . At this point I don't assume a role of for or against SOE , If that's the "infernal one" you mention . I really never have cared enough to take a stand either way. I had already quit due to CU when they unleashed NGE , I tried it, had a few fun pvp battles on bloodfin and quit that's about the extent of my NGE experience ,and I've never been shy to share it .
If some of my views seem to " serve those ends " there's not much I can do about that , it's a worthless topic to debate anyway .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If some of my views seem to " serve those ends " there's not much I can do about that , it's a worthless topic to debate anyway .
I seems to me we can always count on you to regurgitate the company line. In not taking a stand, you seem to always state quite clearly one side of the equation. And yes, in this case, the Infernal One, or the Devil in your devil's advocacy, is obviously SOE, in that this is a forum dedicated to discussing what SOE did.
For someone who claims to not have a horse in this race, you seem to back one particular horse an awful lot; and it isn't the victims of SOE's fraud. It boggles my mind taht someone who, even if they are not or were not "personally" affected by some evil, no matter how great or small, would take the bad guy's side so many times as you do. I just don't understand the mindset in that the good guys are always outnumbered in this world. Why take the bad guy's side for the heck of it?
This is what I see you do over and over again, for years now, and I find it quite odd.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I've rarely ever taken the side of SOE , There are probably exceptions depending on the subject . But if I ever comment in regard to NGE it's usually in responce to broad statements about players , Or where claims of "all vets feel this way" are concerned . When it comes to SWG or any game for that matter I shy away from debates about gameplay , Populations Content etc...etc... That's all subjective outlooks on a game , No reason to debate it IMO .
I don't see the prodctivity in a lot of discussions that take place here . But you have to burn time some how.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Lots of people guilty of fraud are not in jail. If there is no "we," then you have no reason to try and tell people how to react when they don't like a company's practices.
I'm sorry .if you don't like a companies practices by all means feel free to buy their products. Far be it from me to suggest you wouldn't or shouldn't buy their products.
As for the companies using negative viral marketing I very much doubt it. For viral marketing to work you need to find a receptive audience and game forums don't respond well to negativity. Mostly it just creates the sort of shouting matches fanbois and haters seem to thrive on. Winning people over to your side is more of hearts and minds activity that requires one to be positive. More "I think you would enjoy this" than "That game sucks. if you play this you should die in a fire. Game xxx rulz ."
I was merely responding to the fact that you claimed there was no 'we' and at the same time were issuing commands to a group. I found that amusing and commented on it. It wasn't the content of your edict but the fact that you issued one in the context of what you said that I found amusing.
As to the "negative viral marketing" thing, this is why I feel that almost all the viral marketers ARE the ones who jump in and troll about how they just tried/came back, and the game is sooper...and those are the people who usually get accused of being viral marketers on these boards, NOT the hate-filled SOE fans who attack the mental illness of vets. Those people are just trolls with a darkness in their hearts.
SOE HAS already been caught doing that type (positive viral marketing), and taht's the kind I think they sometimes practice on these boards.
I do however believe that sometimes. the DEVs themselves, who aren't the brightest bulbs in the chandelier when it comes to human interaction, do tread these boards, DO get angry, and DO make up phony names to post under, just to attack vets.
THAT makes far more sense than paid professionals screwing themselves with negative viral marketing.
fishermage.blogspot.com
This deserves a reply of it's own . At this point I don't assume a role of for or against SOE , If that's the "infernal one" you mention . I really never have cared enough to take a stand either way. I had already quit due to CU when they unleashed NGE , I tried it, had a few fun pvp battles on bloodfin and quit that's about the extent of my NGE experience ,and I've never been shy to share it .
If some of my views seem to " serve those ends " there's not much I can do about that , it's a worthless topic to debate anyway .
I seems to me we can always count on you to regurgitate the company line. In not taking a stand, you seem to always state quite clearly one side of the equation. And yes, in this case, the Infernal One, or the Devil in your devil's advocacy, is obviously SOE, in that this is a forum dedicated to discussing what SOE did.
For someone who claims to not have a horse in this race, you seem to back one particular horse an awful lot; and it isn't the victims of SOE's fraud. It boggles my mind taht someone who, even if they are not or were not "personally" affected by some evil, no matter how great or small, would take the bad guy's side so many times as you do. I just don't understand the mindset in that the good guys are always outnumbered in this world. Why take the bad guy's side for the heck of it?
This is what I see you do over and over again, for years now, and I find it quite odd.
A perspective that isn't their own , Must be that of the enemies.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I don't see the prodctivity in a lot of discussions that take place here . But you have to burn time some how.
Well is see you always taking the side of SOE, and if it's just to burn time, I find that odd, and non productive. This is almost never a discussion about gameplay, and almost always a discussion about ethiccs, which is what I and everyone in this thread was obviously discussing, and for some reason, you are shfting context...curious to say the least. You seem to do that a lot as well.
I rarely see anyone actually SAY "all" vets feel a certain way; merely people who say "vets" feel this way. Then the other person hyperliteralizes that and starts the 'all" nonsense in an argument.
fishermage.blogspot.com
If some of my views seem to " serve those ends " there's not much I can do about that , it's a worthless topic to debate anyway .
I seems to me we can always count on you to regurgitate the company line. In not taking a stand, you seem to always state quite clearly one side of the equation. And yes, in this case, the Infernal One, or the Devil in your devil's advocacy, is obviously SOE, in that this is a forum dedicated to discussing what SOE did.
For someone who claims to not have a horse in this race, you seem to back one particular horse an awful lot; and it isn't the victims of SOE's fraud. It boggles my mind taht someone who, even if they are not or were not "personally" affected by some evil, no matter how great or small, would take the bad guy's side so many times as you do. I just don't understand the mindset in that the good guys are always outnumbered in this world. Why take the bad guy's side for the heck of it?
This is what I see you do over and over again, for years now, and I find it quite odd.
A perspective that isn't their own , Must be that of the enemies.
Not always, but when one consistently does as often as you, one wonders. This iw why I always wonder about you. This is a consistent theme in your posts. For someone who does this to just pas sthe time I find it odd.
Again, I seem to have to repeat this, I am as always just wondering WHY. Then you answer it is because you are bored. That seems even weirder to me.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I've rarely ever taken the side of SOE , There are probably exceptions depending on the subject . But if I ever comment in regard to NGE it's usually in responce to broad statements about players , Or where claims of "all vets feel this way" are concerned . When it comes to SWG or any game for that matter I shy away from debates about gameplay , Populations Content etc...etc... That's all subjective outlooks on a game , No reason to debate it IMO .
I don't see the prodctivity in a lot of discussions that take place here . But you have to burn time some how.
Well is see you always taking the side of SOE, and if it's just to burn time, I find that odd, and non productive. This is almost never a discussion about gameplay, and almost always a discussion about ethiccs, which is what I and everyone in this thread was obviously discussing, and for some reason, you are shfting context...curious to say the least. You seem to do that a lot as well.
I rarely see anyone actually SAY "all" vets feel a certain way; merely people who say "vets" feel this way. Then the other person hyperliteralizes that and starts the 'all" nonsense in an argument.
Well last time I checked, I didn't create this forum account in order to please you ,Or ask you how I should use it.
Shifting context ? how did we get here?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Hardly a command. A command implies some sort of authority. A command from a forum poster would be akin to "You will obey the directives of some random person for no apparent reason!"
Fans possibly. Devs maybe if they were really stupid and came from a very small company. Any company of any size would be very upset to learn their employees were undermining their maketing efforts with something that counterproductive. Although as much as forumites like to demand developers interact with them I'm beginning to think any contact with potential customers by anyone but marketing is counterproductive. Even marketing departments generally just make things worse when things begin to go wrong.
No, a command is a form of speech. When you tell people to do something, whether you have authority or not, you have issued a command.
Even if the worked for a large company, if they were really stupid they MIGHT do it, and yes it would undermine them. I also see SOE doing a great many things that are really stupid, so I wouldn't put it past them to allow such behavior.
I see that it is prducctive when you are good, non-productive when you are bad. SOE falls into the latter category, obviously.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I don't see the prodctivity in a lot of discussions that take place here . But you have to burn time some how.
Well is see you always taking the side of SOE, and if it's just to burn time, I find that odd, and non productive. This is almost never a discussion about gameplay, and almost always a discussion about ethiccs, which is what I and everyone in this thread was obviously discussing, and for some reason, you are shfting context...curious to say the least. You seem to do that a lot as well.
I rarely see anyone actually SAY "all" vets feel a certain way; merely people who say "vets" feel this way. Then the other person hyperliteralizes that and starts the 'all" nonsense in an argument.
Well last time I checked, I didn't create this forum account in order to please you ,Or ask you how I should use it.
Shifting context ? how did we get here?
NO need to get so testy about it all. We got here by you shifting context. The OP was speaking of ethics, not gameplay, and you shifted context to gameplay.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I've rarely ever taken the side of SOE , There are probably exceptions depending on the subject . But if I ever comment in regard to NGE it's usually in responce to broad statements about players , Or where claims of "all vets feel this way" are concerned . When it comes to SWG or any game for that matter I shy away from debates about gameplay , Populations Content etc...etc... That's all subjective outlooks on a game , No reason to debate it IMO .
I don't see the prodctivity in a lot of discussions that take place here . But you have to burn time some how.
Well is see you always taking the side of SOE, and if it's just to burn time, I find that odd, and non productive. This is almost never a discussion about gameplay, and almost always a discussion about ethiccs, which is what I and everyone in this thread was obviously discussing, and for some reason, you are shfting context...curious to say the least. You seem to do that a lot as well.
I rarely see anyone actually SAY "all" vets feel a certain way; merely people who say "vets" feel this way. Then the other person hyperliteralizes that and starts the 'all" nonsense in an argument.
Well last time I checked, I didn't create this forum account in order to please you ,Or ask you how I should use it.
Shifting context ? how did we get here?
NO need to get so testy about it all. We got here by you shifting context. The OP was speaking of ethics, not gameplay, and you shifted context to gameplay.
You can't be serious /block
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Since on of my links started this whole thread, I'll share an other link that explains quite nicely most of the "negative" viral marketing (the unpaid kind) that goes on here:
http://www.destructoid.com/ten-golden-rules-of-videogame-fanboyism-83502.phtml
fishermage.blogspot.com
I don't see the prodctivity in a lot of discussions that take place here . But you have to burn time some how.
Well is see you always taking the side of SOE, and if it's just to burn time, I find that odd, and non productive. This is almost never a discussion about gameplay, and almost always a discussion about ethiccs, which is what I and everyone in this thread was obviously discussing, and for some reason, you are shfting context...curious to say the least. You seem to do that a lot as well.
I rarely see anyone actually SAY "all" vets feel a certain way; merely people who say "vets" feel this way. Then the other person hyperliteralizes that and starts the 'all" nonsense in an argument.
Well last time I checked, I didn't create this forum account in order to please you ,Or ask you how I should use it.
Shifting context ? how did we get here?
NO need to get so testy about it all. We got here by you shifting context. The OP was speaking of ethics, not gameplay, and you shifted context to gameplay.
You can't be serious /block
Not even sure the meaning of that statement in this context. Obviously I mean what I say; I always do. Seems you are just continuing to try and obfuscate things now.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I've rarely ever taken the side of SOE , There are probably exceptions depending on the subject . But if I ever comment in regard to NGE it's usually in responce to broad statements about players , Or where claims of "all vets feel this way" are concerned . When it comes to SWG or any game for that matter I shy away from debates about gameplay , Populations Content etc...etc... That's all subjective outlooks on a game , No reason to debate it IMO .
I don't see the prodctivity in a lot of discussions that take place here . But you have to burn time some how.
Well is see you always taking the side of SOE, and if it's just to burn time, I find that odd, and non productive. This is almost never a discussion about gameplay, and almost always a discussion about ethiccs, which is what I and everyone in this thread was obviously discussing, and for some reason, you are shfting context...curious to say the least. You seem to do that a lot as well.
I rarely see anyone actually SAY "all" vets feel a certain way; merely people who say "vets" feel this way. Then the other person hyperliteralizes that and starts the 'all" nonsense in an argument.
Well last time I checked, I didn't create this forum account in order to please you ,Or ask you how I should use it.
Shifting context ? how did we get here?
NO need to get so testy about it all. We got here by you shifting context. The OP was speaking of ethics, not gameplay, and you shifted context to gameplay.
You can't be serious /block
Not even sure the meaning of that statement in this context. Obviously I mean what I say; I always do. Seems you are just continuing to try and obfuscate things now.
It's completely obvious after seeing that comment you are baiting me , And I fell for it . I never wrote a word about game play , this thread was about viral marketing , Not ethics . The rest of us actually discussed the context of the OP , You however have done nothing but talk about fraud , And your belief in whether or not I am a SOE Viral Marketer .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson