Originally posted by metalhead980 I recently came back to Guild wars. Decided to make a couple pvp only characters and just do some random arena. currently using a warrior/necro build thats so bad its funny. He's my little wanna be Deathknight. Sure he isn't one of those wiki builds but after fifty random arena battles i think i have the build down. I've gotten a handful of comments about my build asking me why I was running a weird build. I simply tell them that I would rather discover builds on my own than read other peoples builds and be a copycat.
Edit: also running a pure ele air build, people hate it i interupt, knock down and nuke the hell out of people. It's great and isn't on the Wiki site either.
Regardly the ele air build: there was some Dual Attuned Ele nuker but since the use of Rend Enchantments and enchantment removal in general become more common it fell out of favor. I suppose the builds would be pretty alike, can't really be assed to look through the whole archived section though.
Apart from that it's a good idea to try your own builds out to get a feel for what works and what doesn't; even if RA may not be the best way to determine that. RA is after all where everyone goes to test their new (usually not that good) ideas and where the beginners start out - managing to beat new players or fairly experienced ones with bad builds isn't really a major accomplishment and does by no means prove your builds worthiness.
Considering the relevance of being able to make your own builds learning what works and what doesn't early on in the game will help you a lot as you progress through the game. I hope you'll (keep on?) enjoy(ing) Guild Wars.
Unfortunately, 80% of this game is your build. Sure, there's still some room for skill, but that's what you use when you're facing the same build, otherwise you either steamroll the other team or get steamrolled.
The general design of the game means there is a finite number of builds. Typical knowledge of games will tell us that there is a limited number of viable builds. Typical knowledge of game balance means a handful of those viable builds will be overpowered, and thus very often used.
If the game offered more options, like perhaps the ability to have every skill at once and then it was more of a matter of knowing when to use the skills rather than knowing what skills to bring, things could be different, but currently there is no (PvP) use to bringing Mantra of Flame or Physical Resistance stance or any number of other skills that are far too specialized to warrant taking up one of those precious 8 slots. Knockdown is a great skill to have precisely because most KD skills cause damage, interrupt the opponent, stop their movement for 2 seconds, _and_ shut them down for 2 seconds. Thus, lots of warriors/eles bring knockdown skills and neglect skills that don't have this kind of versatility.
Guild Wars is a remarkable game. It contains that of a single player rpg, combined with some of the most liked aspects of a MMO-rpg, to form a selective rpg, with an mmo feel. I know of no other game before this that has done this.
Because of its unique design, the game holds a new feel for longer than NWN, Diablo, and other games that reached potential. However, this game still follows a law. It is limited by its own premise, not able to expand beyond for challanges larger than your group. The game has definatly been exploited due to this.
Every game has a share of exploits, but none so much as a game that has a low cieling. Looking back at Diablo, we can easily see how the Necro or huntress took an advantage. Some changes were made, then everyone played the palidan. This continued until it was no longer supported.
Guild Wars has provided a freedom from these things however. You do not have to see these people beyond the cities, unless you so choose to.
There is one strong appeal that I keep to this game, for this is the second ever that I have had the chance to experience in this case. The first, Ultima Online, from 8+ years back. The gear does not define the character so much as the skills. WoW, EQ, EQII, and all the generic games with different masks, they are about getting the newest and best armour and weapons. In Guild Wars, the best gear does completly nothing for you, if you do not have your skills.
Although I can see your point with the free-flowing information on the wiki site for gw, It really isn't all that bad. It just gives room for improvement on both the game developer's side and the general player populace.
No one was really ever forced to look into guildwars wiki in the first place, and aside from that, if it weren't there, there are a good handful of other sites with the same exact builds for needing eyes to see. Unfortunate for those who are heavy gamers yes, but fortunate for those who do not have the luxury of time, or (experience?) to keep up with the ehem,,, steep learning curve of guildwar's gaming concepts.
With each class and skillset, a new genre of character builds are born. Guildwars is a good game, Wiki is a good source of information if you want it quick and without all the advertising. I somehow feel that they commensurate each other very well.
Originally posted by zonzai Originally posted by Fatal_Redux First of all, they don't give you good builds in GWW, they do that in PvX.
I'm going to have to categorically disagree with this statement.
Correct me if I'm wrong but GWW doesn't feature any builds, only information about the game. GWW is a wikipedia about Guild Wars and PvX about creating builds.
Well, if the wiki wasn't around, people would just get the builds from their friends. I've picked up a number of different builds from very experienced players along with PvX. Why? They work well. I can't play the game if I'm dying all the time due to a bad build. I'd rather share with my friends what works well so that I can concentrate on playing in the game more and having a good time with my guildies conquering some mission or dungeon.
Wiki isn't the problem--it just makes sharing of builds more accessible to lots of people.
There are quite a few sites out there, such as PvXWiki which allows the community to upload builds and rate them. Through doing that a few builds start becoming very popular and overused until they're nerfed.
Though i must admit it was alot of fun seeing 55 monks in pvp. Love people who think that one size fits all
GWW does have some builds but nothing that is ground breaking(If you check under "Norn Fighting Tournament"). In general I've always made my own builds, even though i get builds from other players i never really use them I just take ideas from each of them and work with what I got. For some reason I never found PvXWiki that much helpful.
Originally posted by Zeroxin GWW does have some builds but nothing that is ground breaking(If you check under "Norn Fighting Tournament"). In general I've always made my own builds, even though i get builds from other players i never really use them I just take ideas from each of them and work with what I got. For some reason I never found PvXWiki that much helpful. EDIT: And why isn't there a GW2 forum yet?
PvXWiki is really only builds (usually) not guides for how to play them or why they're good and superior to other ones and so on. If you're asked to play a specific build or form a team it can be good to go there to check out what build(s) there is (are).
There's no point in having any GW2 forums as there would only be speculations on these and very little information. Closer to release when more information has been released we can probably expect a GW2 forum.
I don't know if this thread has been made a million times over and i dont care to check, i'm voicing my opinion and here it is. GwWiki has destroyed this once great game, this rediculously easy pure pvp based game. This game used to bring me so much enjoyment when i wasnt playing a real mmo, i could hop on for 20 minutes and literally enjoy 20 minutes of gameplay in a quick alliance battle or in some random battles, i'd be whatever crazy build i wanted, try new spike builds and such. Now it's impossible to see a class/class that doesnt have the same build as everyother class/class, i'm sick of seeing me/mo WoH spammers and Ne/Me spike bombs, im sick of the same generic Rit/Me Spirit Spammer and im sick of the builds that used to be slightly unique to whoever created it, becoming so routine that the game isnt a challange, a group of warriors couldnt handle a random arena before, now with the right W/A build they cant be beat. The game is basically a raid in any newage game now, you see your build, you know the routine, 2 minutes later, match done - i hate you GwWiki
Ok im just trying to figure out where GwWiki fits into ur arguement? cuz from what im reading you just hate the game as it is now and u state nothing on why you hate or disliki gwwiki.
Originally posted by Goldknyght Originally posted by Pepsipwnzgod I don't know if this thread has been made a million times over and i dont care to check, i'm voicing my opinion and here it is. GwWiki has destroyed this once great game, this rediculously easy pure pvp based game. This game used to bring me so much enjoyment when i wasnt playing a real mmo, i could hop on for 20 minutes and literally enjoy 20 minutes of gameplay in a quick alliance battle or in some random battles, i'd be whatever crazy build i wanted, try new spike builds and such.Now it's impossible to see a class/class that doesnt have the same build as everyother class/class, i'm sick of seeing me/mo WoH spammers and Ne/Me spike bombs, im sick of the same generic Rit/Me Spirit Spammer and im sick of the builds that used to be slightly unique to whoever created it, becoming so routine that the game isnt a challange, a group of warriors couldnt handle a random arena before, now with the right W/A build they cant be beat.The game is basically a raid in any newage game now, you see your build, you know the routine, 2 minutes later, match done - i hate you GwWiki
Ok im just trying to figure out where GwWiki fits into ur arguement? cuz from what im reading you just hate the game as it is now and u state nothing on why you hate or disliki gwwiki.
He probably feels that it's GWWiki's fault that these builds got so mainstream. However what I find slightly hilarious is the fact that none of the builds mentioned has been very common in RA for a long long time: healers are usually monk primary, other primaries are inferior; Ne/Me spike bombs I've never seen, and all combinations I could think of seems horrible; Spirit Spammers are definitively not good in the current interruption heavy meta and has thus become very uncommon; W/A has never really been as good as you make them sound, the best that could be made of them is a generic warrior bar with a shadowstep.
I doubt that any of the builds you've mentioned were actually on the GWWiki (or PvX now) and therefore feel that your argumentation is kind of falling apart.
First of all, they don't give you good builds in GWW, they do that in PvX.
I'm going to have to categorically disagree with this statement.
Correct me if I'm wrong but GWW doesn't feature any builds, only information about the game. GWW is a wikipedia about Guild Wars and PvX about creating builds.
Originally posted by zonzai Yes, but they aren't GOOD builds.
The major part of the builds are copy pasted from the current meta. It's up to you to decide if the players playing GvG in rank 10+ is good or not, although if they're not I wonder how they got there.
I personally find it pretty balanced compared to other games in my limited experience, where theres only one or 2 skills actually worth using.
Plus its a team game so unless your in RA or AB its about the team build not the individual, so yea a warrior could spam warriors strike but against a monk with a decent amount of cond removal or just draw conditions its not doing much. Deep wound would only be overpowered if it wasnt easily removed. Conditions are easy on easy off, hexes are the opposite. Guild wars is like rock, paper, scissors there arent too many team builds that are so OP that they cant be beat, anyone that remembers the channeling rit teams knows what real OP is.
The wiki did not kill this game. If anything, it's just giving a leg up to players that are new to pvp, and that's not a bad thing at all. Sometimes the builds are good, sometimes they're not, but they're often a good starting point for getting something together that works for the individual playing it.
What killed this game is Anet. Guild Wars was once a top shelf game, and I couldn't say enough good things about the pvp in it, clearly better than any other mmo-esque game on the market. Something happened along the way though, and it turned to crap. Anet lost the focus of keeping pvp good (different skill descriptions for pvp/pve? lame, and a red flag of "we can't balance worth a damn), while trying to improve the always cruddy pve. Assassins are a failed class, and were at the start of the decline. Now, exploits don't get fixed in a timely manner (if they get fixed at all?), and the gameplay is becoming more than slightly irritating due to this. Furthermore, Hero Battles (ha) are a complete joke, and Anet should be completely embarassed releasing something to the live servers in this condition. If HB quality was how good the rest of the game was at release, Guild Wars wouldn't have even been a blip on the gaming rader. The heroes can't even successfully path between common locations regularly without getting stuck with nothing interfering with them!
Guild Wars was very impressive initially, but now I wouldn't recommend it (or the sequel) to people I don't like, it's so bad. I wouldn't wish to inflict it on anybody. Anet should be ashamed of themselves. I can't think of any game I've played that's in such poor condition since...since back at the release of Shadowbane (not 6 months later, when many bugs had been fixed).
Originally posted by Honkie The wiki did not kill this game. If anything, it's just giving a leg up to players that are new to pvp, and that's not a bad thing at all. Sometimes the builds are good, sometimes they're not, but they're often a good starting point for getting something together that works for the individual playing it. What killed this game is Anet. Guild Wars was once a top shelf game, and I couldn't say enough good things about the pvp in it, clearly better than any other mmo-esque game on the market. Something happened along the way though, and it turned to crap. Anet lost the focus of keeping pvp good (different skill descriptions for pvp/pve? lame, and a red flag of "we can't balance worth a damn), while trying to improve the always cruddy pve. Assassins are a failed class, and were at the start of the decline. Now, exploits don't get fixed in a timely manner (if they get fixed at all?), and the gameplay is becoming more than slightly irritating due to this. Furthermore, Hero Battles (ha) are a complete joke, and Anet should be completely embarassed releasing something to the live servers in this condition. If HB quality was how good the rest of the game was at release, Guild Wars wouldn't have even been a blip on the gaming rader. The heroes can't even successfully path between common locations regularly without getting stuck with nothing interfering with them! Guild Wars was very impressive initially, but now I wouldn't recommend it (or the sequel) to people I don't like, it's so bad. I wouldn't wish to inflict it on anybody. Anet should be ashamed of themselves. I can't think of any game I've played that's in such poor condition since...since back at the release of Shadowbane (not 6 months later, when many bugs had been fixed).
sounds like you just dont like the game , people dont want to believe that guildwars is a mmo ... but still , its obvius that a good experience can depend on comunity. being this game a COOP focus game , and as you said playing with heros and henchs is ridiculus , i agree cose playing with humans even tho it much harder its also a lot more fun , if you dont have a nice group of friends , guild and allience. the game sucs. thats real life . if you dont have decent friends to play soccer with , soccer sucs . guildwars is a hell of a good platform , but u need to have people to have fun with , the game it selfe , is just a tool.
I liked the original game. I don't like what it's becoming, and the quality of the more recent content that has been released, and was using that as an example of how the dev staff has tossed the game in the dumpster. Hero battles was a prime example of this, and it has nothing to do with the interaction between players, but rather that the heroes can't path the maps properly (not *any* of the HB maps, they get stuck on all of 'em) is such a basic fault in it that there is no way it should have been pushed to live servers in this state. Much less left that way despite outcry from those who play it (or used to before they got fed up). I don't find the concept of hero battles to be ridiculous, I find the concept of it being so broken (as are most of the newer things associated with the game) to be downright offensive.
Not sure why you felt the need to quote my whole post when it was immediately above yours though.
Originally posted by Honkie I liked the original game. I don't like what it's becoming, and the quality of the more recent content that has been released, and was using that as an example of how the dev staff has tossed the game in the dumpster. Hero battles was a prime example of this, and it has nothing to do with the interaction between players, but rather that the heroes can't path the maps properly (not *any* of the HB maps, they get stuck on all of 'em) is such a basic fault in it that there is no way it should have been pushed to live servers in this state. Much less left that way despite outcry from those who play it (or used to before they got fed up). I don't find the concept of hero battles to be ridiculous, I find the concept of it being so broken (as are most of the newer things associated with the game) to be downright offensive. Not sure why you felt the need to quote my whole post when it was immediately above yours though.
I'm quoting your post since I'm answering to it rather than the original post, if you would happen to wonder. Apart from that I agree that Hero Battles is more about being able to get around heroes stupidity rather than anything else. I know a person who got two (yes two!) of his accounts in the top ten of the ladder and the reason for that is that he's pretty much controlling (micro managing) the heroes to 99% and thus compensating their idiocy with his own multitasking skills.
Other stupid things with Hero Battles is that if you ever want to score a kill you either need to have 3 solo cappers maintaining constant 10 degen on opposing team, or using a sin to spike them down. The balancing for PvP is horrible and PvE-skills are stupidly overpowered (5 frontliners hitting up to 3 persons doing 200 damage with every attack and using 3/4 activation skills...). However the splitting of PvE and PvP was good in theory since they then could make skills that are good in PvE be kept that way but changed to become viable for PvP; unfortunately Anet - and their skill balancer Izzy - lack the knowledge to take advantage of the split.
I have a very on again off again relationship with HB, and the best I've managed thus far is about 2500. Though my last match was great fun, in that one of my heroes couldn't find his way out of the starter area to where I'd flagged him to go, and I had to micro a series of steps to get him out. Yeah, that match was a loss, lol. Anyway, as you face better teams you start finding these 4 healer teams that you can't kill, even with the 10 degen maintained, because they just depart for a different shrine and won't stay to face you if you can bring that kind of pressure. It's so much about defense it seems, and watching top rated games makes that even more clear-it's spike or nothing.
I couldn't agree with you more about Izzy, that guy is pure fail. Recently Smiters' Boon was changed to 25 energy (from what, 5 or 10) and 5 second duration with 90 second recharge in pvp, from being something you could have up all the time. I can understand such a drastic change for a couple of days, if there is an exploit involved. There wasn't, and it's been much longer. There is no excuse for being so incapable of finding a reasonable balance that doesn't require that extreme of a nerf for anything that has been deemed acceptable for live servers.
Anyway, I guess this has been pretty well talked out. Guild Wars, once a great product, is now not worth the time to play. How many days till Warhammer?
I wouldn't blame GuildWiki. I remember playing and absolutely loving the game, as did the majority of the community, when GuildWiki was in its prime. Sure, people were sharing builds and there was a meta. But the game was still fun. You could experiment with builds, you could pug most of the game, the community rocked. But Anet changed and added things that started the decline. For one, Heroes. Heroes killed cooperative play outside of Guilds. You can play the whole game solo now, and the AI at times is better than players. Template sharing and observer mode didn't help either. Now there is no excuse why players can't have a "meta-build". And then the ever so functional report feature. I went into RA recently with an old Divert Hexes monk, just to see if it still worked. I was reported before the match even started because I cast it on accident. Reported for a skill, and no way to appeal it. GuildWiki is still a great site for game info, and PvXWiki can be useful at times for build ideas. But I would place the blame with Anet for the downfall. Not Wiki.
Comments
Regardly the ele air build: there was some Dual Attuned Ele nuker but since the use of Rend Enchantments and enchantment removal in general become more common it fell out of favor. I suppose the builds would be pretty alike, can't really be assed to look through the whole archived section though.
Apart from that it's a good idea to try your own builds out to get a feel for what works and what doesn't; even if RA may not be the best way to determine that. RA is after all where everyone goes to test their new (usually not that good) ideas and where the beginners start out - managing to beat new players or fairly experienced ones with bad builds isn't really a major accomplishment and does by no means prove your builds worthiness.
Considering the relevance of being able to make your own builds learning what works and what doesn't early on in the game will help you a lot as you progress through the game. I hope you'll (keep on?) enjoy(ing) Guild Wars.
Unfortunately, 80% of this game is your build. Sure, there's still some room for skill, but that's what you use when you're facing the same build, otherwise you either steamroll the other team or get steamrolled.
The general design of the game means there is a finite number of builds. Typical knowledge of games will tell us that there is a limited number of viable builds. Typical knowledge of game balance means a handful of those viable builds will be overpowered, and thus very often used.
If the game offered more options, like perhaps the ability to have every skill at once and then it was more of a matter of knowing when to use the skills rather than knowing what skills to bring, things could be different, but currently there is no (PvP) use to bringing Mantra of Flame or Physical Resistance stance or any number of other skills that are far too specialized to warrant taking up one of those precious 8 slots. Knockdown is a great skill to have precisely because most KD skills cause damage, interrupt the opponent, stop their movement for 2 seconds, _and_ shut them down for 2 seconds. Thus, lots of warriors/eles bring knockdown skills and neglect skills that don't have this kind of versatility.
Guild Wars is a remarkable game. It contains that of a single player rpg, combined with some of the most liked aspects of a MMO-rpg, to form a selective rpg, with an mmo feel. I know of no other game before this that has done this.
Because of its unique design, the game holds a new feel for longer than NWN, Diablo, and other games that reached potential. However, this game still follows a law. It is limited by its own premise, not able to expand beyond for challanges larger than your group. The game has definatly been exploited due to this.
Every game has a share of exploits, but none so much as a game that has a low cieling. Looking back at Diablo, we can easily see how the Necro or huntress took an advantage. Some changes were made, then everyone played the palidan. This continued until it was no longer supported.
Guild Wars has provided a freedom from these things however. You do not have to see these people beyond the cities, unless you so choose to.
There is one strong appeal that I keep to this game, for this is the second ever that I have had the chance to experience in this case. The first, Ultima Online, from 8+ years back. The gear does not define the character so much as the skills. WoW, EQ, EQII, and all the generic games with different masks, they are about getting the newest and best armour and weapons. In Guild Wars, the best gear does completly nothing for you, if you do not have your skills.
GW rocks... too bad gw2 is vaporware...
It's really not GwWiki's fault it's just another build site. I would blame many of the players for there lack of innovation.
I'm going to have to categorically disagree with this statement.
Although I can see your point with the free-flowing information on the wiki site for gw, It really isn't all that bad. It just gives room for improvement on both the game developer's side and the general player populace.
No one was really ever forced to look into guildwars wiki in the first place, and aside from that, if it weren't there, there are a good handful of other sites with the same exact builds for needing eyes to see. Unfortunate for those who are heavy gamers yes, but fortunate for those who do not have the luxury of time, or (experience?) to keep up with the ehem,,, steep learning curve of guildwar's gaming concepts.
With each class and skillset, a new genre of character builds are born. Guildwars is a good game, Wiki is a good source of information if you want it quick and without all the advertising. I somehow feel that they commensurate each other very well.
Regards,
Croixe.
I'm going to have to categorically disagree with this statement.
Correct me if I'm wrong but GWW doesn't feature any builds, only information about the game. GWW is a wikipedia about Guild Wars and PvX about creating builds.
Well, if the wiki wasn't around, people would just get the builds from their friends. I've picked up a number of different builds from very experienced players along with PvX. Why? They work well. I can't play the game if I'm dying all the time due to a bad build. I'd rather share with my friends what works well so that I can concentrate on playing in the game more and having a good time with my guildies conquering some mission or dungeon.
Wiki isn't the problem--it just makes sharing of builds more accessible to lots of people.
i quit GW due to the lack of open PvP
Let Them HATE, so long as they FEAR
GWW does have some builds but nothing that is ground breaking(If you check under "Norn Fighting Tournament"). In general I've always made my own builds, even though i get builds from other players i never really use them I just take ideas from each of them and work with what I got. For some reason I never found PvXWiki that much helpful.
EDIT: And why isn't there a GW2 forum yet?
This is not a game.
PvXWiki is really only builds (usually) not guides for how to play them or why they're good and superior to other ones and so on. If you're asked to play a specific build or form a team it can be good to go there to check out what build(s) there is (are).
There's no point in having any GW2 forums as there would only be speculations on these and very little information. Closer to release when more information has been released we can probably expect a GW2 forum.
The large majority of popular builds on PvX Wiki have descriptions and guides on how to use them...
Ok im just trying to figure out where GwWiki fits into ur arguement? cuz from what im reading you just hate the game as it is now and u state nothing on why you hate or disliki gwwiki.
Ok im just trying to figure out where GwWiki fits into ur arguement? cuz from what im reading you just hate the game as it is now and u state nothing on why you hate or disliki gwwiki.
He probably feels that it's GWWiki's fault that these builds got so mainstream. However what I find slightly hilarious is the fact that none of the builds mentioned has been very common in RA for a long long time: healers are usually monk primary, other primaries are inferior; Ne/Me spike bombs I've never seen, and all combinations I could think of seems horrible; Spirit Spammers are definitively not good in the current interruption heavy meta and has thus become very uncommon; W/A has never really been as good as you make them sound, the best that could be made of them is a generic warrior bar with a shadowstep.
I doubt that any of the builds you've mentioned were actually on the GWWiki (or PvX now) and therefore feel that your argumentation is kind of falling apart.
I'm going to have to categorically disagree with this statement.
Correct me if I'm wrong but GWW doesn't feature any builds, only information about the game. GWW is a wikipedia about Guild Wars and PvX about creating builds.
Yes, but they aren't GOOD builds.
The major part of the builds are copy pasted from the current meta. It's up to you to decide if the players playing GvG in rank 10+ is good or not, although if they're not I wonder how they got there.
guild wars pvp > all
I personally find it pretty balanced compared to other games in my limited experience, where theres only one or 2 skills actually worth using.
Plus its a team game so unless your in RA or AB its about the team build not the individual, so yea a warrior could spam warriors strike but against a monk with a decent amount of cond removal or just draw conditions its not doing much. Deep wound would only be overpowered if it wasnt easily removed. Conditions are easy on easy off, hexes are the opposite. Guild wars is like rock, paper, scissors there arent too many team builds that are so OP that they cant be beat, anyone that remembers the channeling rit teams knows what real OP is.
The wiki did not kill this game. If anything, it's just giving a leg up to players that are new to pvp, and that's not a bad thing at all. Sometimes the builds are good, sometimes they're not, but they're often a good starting point for getting something together that works for the individual playing it.
What killed this game is Anet. Guild Wars was once a top shelf game, and I couldn't say enough good things about the pvp in it, clearly better than any other mmo-esque game on the market. Something happened along the way though, and it turned to crap. Anet lost the focus of keeping pvp good (different skill descriptions for pvp/pve? lame, and a red flag of "we can't balance worth a damn), while trying to improve the always cruddy pve. Assassins are a failed class, and were at the start of the decline. Now, exploits don't get fixed in a timely manner (if they get fixed at all?), and the gameplay is becoming more than slightly irritating due to this. Furthermore, Hero Battles (ha) are a complete joke, and Anet should be completely embarassed releasing something to the live servers in this condition. If HB quality was how good the rest of the game was at release, Guild Wars wouldn't have even been a blip on the gaming rader. The heroes can't even successfully path between common locations regularly without getting stuck with nothing interfering with them!
Guild Wars was very impressive initially, but now I wouldn't recommend it (or the sequel) to people I don't like, it's so bad. I wouldn't wish to inflict it on anybody. Anet should be ashamed of themselves. I can't think of any game I've played that's in such poor condition since...since back at the release of Shadowbane (not 6 months later, when many bugs had been fixed).
sounds like you just dont like the game , people dont want to believe that guildwars is a mmo ... but still , its obvius that a good experience can depend on comunity. being this game a COOP focus game , and as you said playing with heros and henchs is ridiculus , i agree cose playing with humans even tho it much harder its also a lot more fun , if you dont have a nice group of friends , guild and allience. the game sucs. thats real life . if you dont have decent friends to play soccer with , soccer sucs . guildwars is a hell of a good platform , but u need to have people to have fun with , the game it selfe , is just a tool.
Guild - http://lightness.goodforum.net/
Blog - http://www.pierrecarlier.com/
I liked the original game. I don't like what it's becoming, and the quality of the more recent content that has been released, and was using that as an example of how the dev staff has tossed the game in the dumpster. Hero battles was a prime example of this, and it has nothing to do with the interaction between players, but rather that the heroes can't path the maps properly (not *any* of the HB maps, they get stuck on all of 'em) is such a basic fault in it that there is no way it should have been pushed to live servers in this state. Much less left that way despite outcry from those who play it (or used to before they got fed up). I don't find the concept of hero battles to be ridiculous, I find the concept of it being so broken (as are most of the newer things associated with the game) to be downright offensive.
Not sure why you felt the need to quote my whole post when it was immediately above yours though.
I'm quoting your post since I'm answering to it rather than the original post, if you would happen to wonder. Apart from that I agree that Hero Battles is more about being able to get around heroes stupidity rather than anything else. I know a person who got two (yes two!) of his accounts in the top ten of the ladder and the reason for that is that he's pretty much controlling (micro managing) the heroes to 99% and thus compensating their idiocy with his own multitasking skills.
Other stupid things with Hero Battles is that if you ever want to score a kill you either need to have 3 solo cappers maintaining constant 10 degen on opposing team, or using a sin to spike them down. The balancing for PvP is horrible and PvE-skills are stupidly overpowered (5 frontliners hitting up to 3 persons doing 200 damage with every attack and using 3/4 activation skills...). However the splitting of PvE and PvP was good in theory since they then could make skills that are good in PvE be kept that way but changed to become viable for PvP; unfortunately Anet - and their skill balancer Izzy - lack the knowledge to take advantage of the split.
I have a very on again off again relationship with HB, and the best I've managed thus far is about 2500. Though my last match was great fun, in that one of my heroes couldn't find his way out of the starter area to where I'd flagged him to go, and I had to micro a series of steps to get him out. Yeah, that match was a loss, lol. Anyway, as you face better teams you start finding these 4 healer teams that you can't kill, even with the 10 degen maintained, because they just depart for a different shrine and won't stay to face you if you can bring that kind of pressure. It's so much about defense it seems, and watching top rated games makes that even more clear-it's spike or nothing.
I couldn't agree with you more about Izzy, that guy is pure fail. Recently Smiters' Boon was changed to 25 energy (from what, 5 or 10) and 5 second duration with 90 second recharge in pvp, from being something you could have up all the time. I can understand such a drastic change for a couple of days, if there is an exploit involved. There wasn't, and it's been much longer. There is no excuse for being so incapable of finding a reasonable balance that doesn't require that extreme of a nerf for anything that has been deemed acceptable for live servers.
Anyway, I guess this has been pretty well talked out. Guild Wars, once a great product, is now not worth the time to play. How many days till Warhammer?
I wouldn't blame GuildWiki. I remember playing and absolutely loving the game, as did the majority of the community, when GuildWiki was in its prime. Sure, people were sharing builds and there was a meta. But the game was still fun. You could experiment with builds, you could pug most of the game, the community rocked. But Anet changed and added things that started the decline. For one, Heroes. Heroes killed cooperative play outside of Guilds. You can play the whole game solo now, and the AI at times is better than players. Template sharing and observer mode didn't help either. Now there is no excuse why players can't have a "meta-build". And then the ever so functional report feature. I went into RA recently with an old Divert Hexes monk, just to see if it still worked. I was reported before the match even started because I cast it on accident. Reported for a skill, and no way to appeal it. GuildWiki is still a great site for game info, and PvXWiki can be useful at times for build ideas. But I would place the blame with Anet for the downfall. Not Wiki.