The only hope I have is that grouping is fun, and that traditional roles hold up (tanking, dps, healing) instead of feeling really ambiguous like AoC.
I'm going to be playing a DoK...and I'm not speccing in healing
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS! They will all hate me!
lol, enjoy your gimped fighter with limited healing powers!
how do you its gimped, have you played one? you haven't even played the game yet and you are already telling people how they should play. im also rolling a DOK and dont intend of speccing healing....DOK will probably have tanking abilities to make up for the lack of dark elf tank.
Similarity Chain:
WoW Paladin ---> Warrior Priest ---> Disciple of Khaine
The OP has the WoW mindset. He laughs at Retribution Paladins, since they are gimped in WoW. However, this translates in no way, shape, or form to the DPS Warrior Priests/Disciples of Khaine. Yeah, they'll probably have some tanking capability, but I see that becoming more likely for the WP since they're bald and wearing heavy chest armor.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
The only hope I have is that grouping is fun, and that traditional roles hold up (tanking, dps, healing) instead of feeling really ambiguous like AoC.
I'm going to be playing a DoK...and I'm not speccing in healing
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS! They will all hate me!
lol, enjoy your gimped fighter with limited healing powers!
how do you its gimped, have you played one? you haven't even played the game yet and you are already telling people how they should play. im also rolling a DOK and dont intend of speccing healing....DOK will probably have tanking abilities to make up for the lack of dark elf tank.
OK lets not cross the line here, there is no way in hell that it will gaine tanking abilities, NO OTHER CLASS ITS GONNA PICK UP TANKING FOR ITS RACE, ITS JUST A VOID TILL IT GETS IN!
josh said, that abilities that were interesting from the cut classes are still in the game..they added them to the already existing classes. Dok will be able to tank, just like paladin can tank in wow. dok is the mirror for the warrior priest, and the warrior priest can tank. Those classes that were cut will not make it back into the game, and you can quote me on that if you like.
Grouping with loads of people to get something done.
Having said that ye some things would be fun. I would be more after bosses in the style of onyxia/Lord Kazzak. Make them open world bosses or if they are instanced just let us clear stuff that only takes 10 mins not 2 hours to clear to fight the boss. EDIT: potential for loads of those kind of bosses and for them to be done well. Just get various npc characters from the world of WAR, design them well as fun and challenging encounters.
Thats what I am talking about. The king fight is like Onyxia. You get 24 people, zone in and fight the guy. I just wish they had more than just the one king. The other bosses are PQ's in the city which is different.
I don't WoW style raiding. I want boss fights and lots of them. If my big guild has to RvR to open them up like the King right now, all the better!
The only hope I have is that grouping is fun, and that traditional roles hold up (tanking, dps, healing) instead of feeling really ambiguous like AoC.
I'm going to be playing a DoK...and I'm not speccing in healing
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS! They will all hate me!
lol, enjoy your gimped fighter with limited healing powers!
how do you its gimped, have you played one? you haven't even played the game yet and you are already telling people how they should play. im also rolling a DOK and dont intend of speccing healing....DOK will probably have tanking abilities to make up for the lack of dark elf tank.
Let me clarify. By gimped fighter - I mean it will not have as much dps as a normal fighter. (Which it won't) By limited healing powers, I mean it will not be specced for healing. I'm not telling him how he should play. If that's his playstyle, then awesome. That's what the spec is there for.
I cannot seem to get very detailed information about the endgame from any source. If WAR has a good PVE endgame to go with the detailed PVP system, they would have me as a subscriber forever. Does anyone know anything about endgame PVE? Will it be dynamic like an Everquest or WoW? I'm not looking for replies that say "This is a PVP game, if you want PVE go play WoW". I am genuinely looking for information here. Thanks!
Thats a good question.
Its almost like WAR is keeping PVE endgame close to the vest because they really dont have much of it.
a few non-instanced dungeons and instanced boss encounters are all i read about so far.
If the ENdgame isnt atleast equal to games like Lotro i probably wont last long after we sack a city a couple times.
Basically means i give a shelf life of 6 to 8 months then i'll be searching for a new MMO.
I cannot seem to get very detailed information about the endgame from any source. If WAR has a good PVE endgame to go with the detailed PVP system, they would have me as a subscriber forever. Does anyone know anything about endgame PVE? Will it be dynamic like an Everquest or WoW? I'm not looking for replies that say "This is a PVP game, if you want PVE go play WoW". I am genuinely looking for information here. Thanks!
Thats a good question.
Its almost like WAR is keeping PVE endgame close to the vest because they really dont have much of it.
a few non-instanced dungeons and instanced boss encounters are all i read about so far.
If the ENdgame isnt atleast equal to games like Lotro i probably wont last long after we sack a city a couple times.
Basically means i give a shelf life of 6 to 8 months then i'll be searching for a new MMO.
That would be a shame.
In 6 to 8months they should have the other 4 cities put in. Thats 2 more cities to raid, with 2 more king encounters, 4 more large raid PQ bosses, and the 4-6 more small scale dungeons to play in per realm.
I cannot seem to get very detailed information about the endgame from any source. If WAR has a good PVE endgame to go with the detailed PVP system, they would have me as a subscriber forever. Does anyone know anything about endgame PVE? Will it be dynamic like an Everquest or WoW? I'm not looking for replies that say "This is a PVP game, if you want PVE go play WoW". I am genuinely looking for information here. Thanks!
Thats a good question.
Its almost like WAR is keeping PVE endgame close to the vest because they really dont have much of it.
a few non-instanced dungeons and instanced boss encounters are all i read about so far.
If the ENdgame isnt atleast equal to games like Lotro i probably wont last long after we sack a city a couple times.
Basically means i give a shelf life of 6 to 8 months then i'll be searching for a new MMO.
That would be a shame.
How often do you think a city will get sacked? You wont see a city sacking for at least 2 months and then after that it will be like once in a blue moon. Sacking a city take`s immense effort from everyone in your realm,from the lowest level to the top they will help make it possible.
Keeps and scenario will be your realms bread and butter , if you played DAOC you will no that keeps changed hand a lot . Don`t forget their are instances in your city which anyone can do plus you have instances out in the world like Mt.Gunbad dungeon.
Mt.Gunbad dungeon
Its a group dungeon levels 22-30 . There is a vid of the game show in Baltimore where a devs speaks about it for 5 mins..off record. Its an open world instanced dungeon where one faction goes in one end and the other goes in the opposite end.
West Wing is level 22-23
East Wing is level 24-25
South Wing is for levels 26-29.
Complete all the wings to take on the final boss..Squig Boss Ard Ta Feed..
This is just one of many dungeons plus you have instances . All these are built for 6 man groups nothing outside of the city is more than a 6 man dungeon/instanced.
Here's the thing - if the classes are fun and have good synergy - PVE is going to be awesome no matter what. If the king even has a hint of being dynamic, it's going to be a great raid encounter, and people are going to love the PVE aspect.
If the king encounter is fun, it's going to suck if they don't offer more raid content.
Public quests are raids that are not instanced and anyone can join or leave at any time.
PQ'S are certainly a form of raidng but they are not set up to be difficult progression type raids. While Warhammer seems to offer a lot and there are a ton of things to be excited about the one major feature it is missing is progression raiding.
Whether you like WoW or hate it they did one thing very well, offering content for all playstyles including raiders. Warhammer seems to be miles ahead in terms of PVP but there seems to be a dead end in terms of PvE content without progression raiding.
I am not predicting Warhammer will fail. Rather just the oppossite. I believe it will be a huge success. But with progression raiding it could be so much better. My fear is the endgame essentially only offers PvP content and that peopl will become bored wanting more ways to progress in PvE. PVE progression is big reason for keeping people subscribing and the lack of one of the biggest reasons people leave games. I would love to see Warhammer offer endgame for both PvP and PvE Raiders.
Sadly one has to like a game for what it is not what it is not. In this respect there is a lot to like about Warhammer.
Public quests are raids that are not instanced and anyone can join or leave at any time.
PQ'S are certainly a form of raidng but they are not set up to be difficult progression type raids. While Warhammer seems to offer a lot and there are a ton of things to be excited about the one major feature it is missing is progression raiding. and thank god for that because progression raiding in most games is the only viable form of progression and thus everyone gets forced to do it or gets called a gimp by the elites. This is an RvR / PvP game adding in progression raiding takes away from the Realm vs Realm mechanics and makes it Guild vs Realm vs Realm vs Guild which is Not what WAR is about. Raiders will just have to stick with WoW or find another way to feel elite.
Whether you like WoW or hate it they did one thing very well, offering content for all playstyles including raiders. Warhammer seems to be miles ahead in terms of PVP but there seems to be a dead end in terms of PvE content without progression raiding. Maybe to you they did things right and included everyone but this is NOT the case, the moment raids started coming out in WoW during its first year to two years I became heavily disgruntled because now there were entire chunks of content I'd never get to enjoy and it disheartened me (I dont ahve the time or patience to kiss some guild leaders ass to get go on a raid). THey basically said "here's end game its Raids Love it or Leave it" and they've kept that mentality only now theyve 'dumb down' or force raiding on players by lowering the requirements for players meaning if you want to progress in PVE you have to do Dungeons, Grinding or Nothing.
Basically if your into expanding your character's diversity through anything other than Gear your fucked. PvP even more so it got the worse end of the stick being all gear and restricted to crappy BGs & Arena.
I am not predicting Warhammer will fail. Rather just the oppossite. I believe it will be a huge success. But with progression raiding it could be so much better. My fear is the endgame essentially only offers PvP content and that peopl will become bored wanting more ways to progress in PvE. PVE progression is big reason for keeping people subscribing and the lack of one of the biggest reasons people leave games. I would love to see Warhammer offer endgame for both PvP and PvE Raiders.
Sadly one has to like a game for what it is not what it is not. In this respect there is a lot to like about Warhammer.
Progression Raiding suites 1 type of player the greedy Elitist player or Guilds looking to be the Uber Leet and screw everyone else types. You never see these raiders do anything to help their faction or their realm its strickly all about the kill and the gear and definitly all about themselves. There's already tons of games that have the tier'd raiding down why does yet another game need it? It doesn't I'm tired of games where their end game becomes PvE raid centric and I'm for one glad Mythic has stayed away from such an elitist activity and went with a more open method through public dungeons & boss encounters.
For once a game is getting it right in allowing everyone a fair shot to enjoy ALL the content in the game instead of creating content that Only certain types of people get to enjoy.
There's Dungeons, PQ's (City Seige ones included), & the King Encounter for the PvE set. Keeps, City Sieging, & Scenarios for the PvP set and thsoe of us inbetween get to enjoy all of it because all roads are open since you dont have to be part of any sort of exclusive group or have special requirements to go anywhere. If they added Raid Progression all roads would not be open. Players would have to be in raid guilds and do raid things to earn spots in the next run or earn access too the areas. It would also take players away from RvR which is exactly what happened in DAoC with Trials of Atlantis. They've learned their lesson on what works in games that are RvR centric and what doesn't.
I find the typical WoW raiding guild sickening. Interviews, schedules, class limitations ... I was filling out a AoC guild app and one of the question was what previous raids had I accomplished. Man, that's just sick and wrong.
Really well put Banthis. The only problem is this: The overwhelming majority of MMO players enjoy endgame PVE content. That's why WoW does so well. That's why the keep the numbers they do.
Don't get me wrong, I am going to go out there and tear the heads off of everyone that I see in pvp when Warhammer comes out - so is everyone else; and we're going to frickin' love it!
But battling the same 20 classes over and over is only going to keep me happy for so long. Soon I'm going to want some strategic boss fights to give me a break after my dose of pvp.
But battling the same 20 classes over and over is only going to keep me happy for so long. Soon I'm going to want some strategic boss fights to give me a break after my dose of pvp.
and some people get bored fighting the same 10 bosses over and over, and want some strategic PvP to give them a break from the PvE.
The benefit of PvP is it is player driven, not scripted. So 20 classes + hundreds of players will stay fresh longer than 10-20 static boss encounters. fighting a goblin shammy 100 times over can get kind of old, but add that goblin shammy to 10 other random players and its going to stay fresh far longer than any boss encounter someone could code.
so while yes, PvP is fun, and bosses are great. PvP is where the staying power is, because its not the same every time you try it, it changes depending on who you are fighting.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
Really well put Banthis. The only problem is this: The overwhelming majority of MMO players enjoy endgame PVE content. That's why WoW does so well. That's why the keep the numbers they do. Don't get me wrong, I am going to go out there and tear the heads off of everyone that I see in pvp when Warhammer comes out - so is everyone else; and we're going to frickin' love it! But battling the same 20 classes over and over is only going to keep me happy for so long. Soon I'm going to want some strategic boss fights to give me a break after my dose of pvp.
The RvR in this game takes A LOT of strategy. You think a group of mindless idiots can run up to The Inevitable City and take out the boss? No. It's going to take a lot of planning and a lot of guild cooperation. Same thing with the mega fortresses. You aren't just going to say "O...I think I'll go get my bud and we'll take them out". It's going to require guild cooperation and thought. And the bosses for the PQs aren't going to be a piece of cake from some videos I've watched and from what I've heard in different articles. The strategy will definitely be there.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Really well put Banthis. The only problem is this: The overwhelming majority of MMO players enjoy endgame PVE content. That's why WoW does so well. That's why the keep the numbers they do. Don't get me wrong, I am going to go out there and tear the heads off of everyone that I see in pvp when Warhammer comes out - so is everyone else; and we're going to frickin' love it! But battling the same 20 classes over and over is only going to keep me happy for so long. Soon I'm going to want some strategic boss fights to give me a break after my dose of pvp.
Sounds to me like you should play both games. I don't think one game should have to please everyone. We can all play more than one game. I love Rock Band but I don't ask WAR to add a drum controller.
There should be more than pvp and there will be. Would it be so bad for a game to have content where you didn't have to be in the right guild just to see?
Public quests are raids that are not instanced and anyone can join or leave at any time.
PQ'S are certainly a form of raidng but they are not set up to be difficult or progression type raids. While Warhammer seems to offer a lot and there are a ton of things to be excited about the one major feature it is missing is progression raiding.
Whether you like WoW or hate it they did one thing very well, offering content for all playstyles including raiders. Warhammer seems to be miles ahead in terms of PVP but there seems to be a dead end in terms of PvE content without progression raiding.
I am not predicting Warhammer will fail. Rather just the oppossite. I believe it will be a huge success. But with progression raiding it could be so much better. My fear is the endgame essentially only offers PvP content and that peopl will become bored wanting more ways to progress in PvE. PVE progression is big reason for keeping people subscribing and the lack of one of the biggest reasons people leave games. I would love to see Warhammer offer endgame for both PvP and PvE Raiders.
Sadly one has to like a game for what it is not what it is not. In this respect there is a lot to like about Warhammer.
and thank god for that because progression raiding in most games is the only viable form of progression and thus everyone gets forced to do it or gets called a gimp by the elites. This is an RvR / PvP game adding in progression raiding takes away from the Realm vs Realm mechanics and makes it Guild vs Realm vs Realm vs Guild which is Not what WAR is about. Raiders will just have to stick with WoW or find another way to feel elite.
Maybe to you they did things right and included everyone but this is NOT the case, the moment raids started coming out in WoW during its first year to two years I became heavily disgruntled because now there were entire chunks of content I'd never get to enjoy and it disheartened me (I dont ahve the time or patience to kiss some guild leaders ass to get go on a raid). THey basically said "here's end game its Raids Love it or Leave it" and they've kept that mentality only now theyve 'dumb down' or force raiding on players by lowering the requirements for players meaning if you want to progress in PVE you have to do Dungeons, Grinding or Nothing.
Basically if your into expanding your character's diversity through anything other than Gear your fucked. PvP even more so it got the worse end of the stick being all gear and restricted to crappy BGs & Arena. Progression Raiding suites 1 type of player the greedy Elitist player or Guilds looking to be the Uber Leet and screw everyone else types. You never see these raiders do anything to help their faction or their realm its strickly all about the kill and the gear and definitly all about themselves. There's already tons of games that have the tier'd raiding down why does yet another game need it? It doesn't I'm tired of games where their end game becomes PvE raid centric and I'm for one glad Mythic has stayed away from such an elitist activity and went with a more open method through public dungeons & boss encounters.
For once a game is getting it right in allowing everyone a fair shot to enjoy ALL the content in the game instead of creating content that Only certain types of people get to enjoy.
There's Dungeons, PQ's (City Seige ones included), & the King Encounter for the PvE set. Keeps, City Sieging, & Scenarios for the PvP set and thsoe of us inbetween get to enjoy all of it because all roads are open since you dont have to be part of any sort of exclusive group or have special requirements to go anywhere. If they added Raid Progression all roads would not be open. Players would have to be in raid guilds and do raid things to earn spots in the next run or earn access too the areas. It would also take players away from RvR which is exactly what happened in DAoC with Trials of Atlantis. They've learned their lesson on what works in games that are RvR centric and what doesn't.
Saying that progression raidiing is only for greedy elitest players is a huge generalization as is most of your post. One could just as easily generalize and say PVPers are generraly rude whiny kiddies without the attention span to follow directions and pay attention in raids to be successful. But that is not fair just as your attacks on people that do not endorse your playstyle are not fair.
To say that top end raiders are greedy is simply not true. For a guild to be a successful top end raiding guild its members need to put away their individual goals and focus only on guild goals. Greedy players do not work well in progession guilds.
Saying that the best guilds will not help out in RvR unless they are forced to is just as big a generalization. There are reasons for people tp RvR and to help. I have been part of many PvE raiding and PVP guilds that have had some of the nicest people one would meet on a server. People that love to help other people. Daoc had one of the biggest carrots to PvP in any MMO with RP points Warhammer does the same. All players will need to help their realm in Warhammer to fully develop thier own characters.
But you do bring up one good point that I will agree with you and thats forced raiding. No one play style should be forced over another. IMO there should be multiple ways to get the best gear. The problem often is always risk vs reward with high end raiding be the most difficult content in MMOs. But in a game like Warhammer with a limited amount of inventory slots compared to most MMO's and less of a focus on gear better gear should make less of a difference especially compared to the gains from receiving RVR ranks. In warhammer RvR gives players better skills and new abilities. Something raiders would have to do if they want to progress in PvE content.
The way Warhammer is set up with its focus on RvR even if it did progression raiding it would not effect PvP players that much or even force them to raid. If the difference in gear was to huge it can easily be rectified by providing similar gear from PvP. But then again that brings out the question as to why should a guild engage in the difficult task of raiding when it would be much easier and simpler to just PvP. But there are ways to make both playstyles meaningfull and happy such as make the PvP gear rewards focused on PVP stats or limited mainly to PVP and the reverse for Raiding gear.
It is sad. For PvPers there has arguably not been a good game since DAOC. Many people simply hated L2 for its bland boring content and world, Dark and Light may have been the worst game ever released, and almost of the 30 or so people (myself included) I know who tried AoC none lasted longer than 2-6 weeks before cancelling. For many raiders likewise there is nothing out there. EQ1 to old, EQ2 just a bland boring game, WoW well I will not go there and Vanguard is not being funded by SOE and is generating virtually no new content. I think we all want to see a good quality game made and that will offer content for all players. A game like Warhammer has that potential. If its a hit and a success they will have the money and the number of developers to develop content for us players on a lerge scale.
There is no reason the endgame has to be just PVP and nothing really for PvE. Yes there are some dungeons, some single group content but it is very limited and people will quickly reach a dead end on PvE without some more challenging content such as raiding. While I am excited quite a bit by warhammer again I think they are greatly limiting themselves by narrowly focusing their endgame to one playstyle.
But again this is not a doom and gloom post. Rather I was just pointing out the big features missing from Warhammer is progression raiding and endgame PvE content. This IMHO limits Warhammer's potential targetbase and limits the activities available at endgame lowering the possible retention rate. As I said before one has to like a game for what it is, not what it is not. In this respect there is a lot to like about Warhammer and even without raiding Warhammer will be a successful and great game. I have been lucky enough to be a beta player but even without any beta information I am confident Warhammer will be a huge hit come release this November/ December.
Really well put Banthis. The only problem is this: The overwhelming majority of MMO players enjoy endgame PVE content. That's why WoW does so well. That's why the keep the numbers they do. Don't get me wrong, I am going to go out there and tear the heads off of everyone that I see in pvp when Warhammer comes out - so is everyone else; and we're going to frickin' love it! But battling the same 20 classes over and over is only going to keep me happy for so long. Soon I'm going to want some strategic boss fights to give me a break after my dose of pvp.
I never said ther eshouldn't be end game PvE content infact I listed several END game content. Dungeons & the King are High to End game content in WAR.
My issue is with the RAID mentality. Raiding is an exclusive end game path for only raiders. Yes non raiders and casuals get into it but only because they had too because there was nothing else. WAR's mentality that NO activity should be 'exclusive' is to me the perfect mentality. Everyone pays the same, everyone dedicates time to a game even if its in shorter or longer bursts for some so everyone shoudl have access to the same Progression path at end game. Raiding is limited and only about Gear. RvR encompasses everything Pve & PvP and in order to keep 'everyone' working together without having to 'focus' on working together they've implimented End Game Open Dungeons that have Instanced bosses and the King Encounter (which anyone can go to without having to "progress' to be 'flagged' to go).
Any content that requires you to 'progress' in a manner to be 'flagged' and limits players to only playing with their 'guild' or a 'guild' is destructive to RvR mentality.
If you don't understand RvR then perhaps you never will and perhaps you'll be among the few that will not like WAR and thats fine..but alot of us are tired of content and activities that are exclusive to a particular player base...RvR is about everyone in your faction and as such Everyone has a shot to participate in all the available content and thats the way it should be in an RvR Game not a PvP game or PvE game but an RvR game.
Amen to what banthis said. I find the typical WoW raiding guild sickening. Interviews, schedules, class limitations ... I was filling out a AoC guild app and one of the question was what previous raids had I accomplished. Man, that's just sick and wrong. This is not a job, it's a game.
My ex-girlfriend felt this way when we played WoW way back when. She'd never fill out an application for a guild because she thought they were all nerds who took a GAME way too seriously. They treat it more like a job, but sadly, the very nature of endgame PvE (at least in WoW) almost forces them to. Because of the design of the content, they have set roles that need to be filled and that means people will be rejected. They want to have people with the most experience because otherwise, because of the design, it becomes quite difficult and frustrating to the raiding veterans.
What Mythic doing is taking that away. Of course, experience is still useful, but it won't be such a harsh requirement as in WoW. Maybe people will remember that to learn something best, you have to do it.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Saying that progression raidiing is only for greedy elitest players is a huge generalization as is most of your post. One could just as easily generalize and say PVPers are generraly rude whiny kiddies without the attention span to follow directions and pay attention in raids to be successful. But that is not fair just as your attacks on people that do not endorse your playstyle are not fair. To say that top end raiders are greedy is simply not true. For a guild to be a successful top end raiding guild its members need to put away their individual goals and focus only on guild goals. Greedy players do not work well in progession guilds.
And here in lies the problem..Guilds work for Guilds in games that have PvE Raids. This is NOT a guild Game..this s not a Guild vs Guild for the champion spot game. This an RvR game..yes guilds are important and guilds get some damn awsome features but the game is an RvR game...giving Guilds a reason to dislike each other on the Same TEAM is a bad idea and thats what Raids do. Instead of guilds focusing on the war effort they'llb e focusing on the Raid Content so they can 'one up' other guilds on the Teir.
You may feel im generalizing but I'm not. Raiders bitch wined and cried the moment casual started getting access to dungeons they once held dear to them. What does that tell you? Raiders have to have content that only THEY can enjoy what does that tell you?
I enjoy both PvE & PvP and I've always despised when a game created content that only RAIDERS would like. You may feel WAR is missing out but if you understood anything about RvR then you'd know it wasn't. You may not need 24 people but there's still plenty for PvE end game.
I hate PvE raiding progression because it sections off portions of the game from others and you can't say different because even in WoW its true. Look at the old raid zones even today the only people that go there are guilds that NEED to go there for X person's quest. Anyone in a small start up guild or a new player never gets to see those zones. Its a complete waste of development time and it would be even MORE so in an RvR game where the focus is an actual WAR going on.
i doubt seriously there will be much in the ways of massive pve stuff like WoW has. Warhammer is mostly a Realm vs. Realm game, it's main focus is PvP Realm vs. Realm. I'm sure they'll have some encounters to kill dragons or other very dangerous creatures of the sort that need alot of people to conquer. If you like PvE there will be pve for you but just remember this games focus is more for Pvp Realm vs. Realm and it doesn't cater to PvE as much as PvP.
I for one am soooo happy to see mythic focus on Realm vs. Realm as the primary focus...If I wanted a PvE game I'd play World of Warcraft. I hated WoW, I hated the massive grinding for loot in huge raids for a few scraps of armors taking forever to get equipped only to have it replaceable by the time I finally got equipped.
I always missed that feeling of realm pride we had in Dark Age of Camelot in the old days.
i doubt seriously there will be much in the ways of massive pve stuff like WoW has. Warhammer is mostly a Realm vs. Realm game, it's main focus is PvP Realm vs. Realm. I'm sure they'll have some encounters to kill dragons or other very dangerous creatures of the sort that need alot of people to conquer. If you like PvE there will be pve for you but just remember this games focus is more for Pvp Realm vs. Realm and it doesn't cater to PvE as much as PvP. I for one am soooo happy to see mythic focus on Realm vs. Realm as the primary focus...If I wanted a PvE game I'd play World of Warcraft. I hated WoW, I hated the massive grinding for loot in huge raids for a few scraps of armors taking forever to get equipped only to have it replaceable by the time I finally got equipped.
Maybe you should actually play the game before makign this statement. I have..there's plenty of PvE. Its a ful RvR game meaning PvE & PvP are important they're just not creating any content that sections off the player base in an unfair way.
Okay, you know what? If they can make RvR have the staying power that a PVE progression focused game has, then I'm totally hooked.
I'm just having a hard time trying to figure out how the concept of straight RvR is going to hold players' attention through the first two years that this game is out.
True I haven't gotten to play the game. I'm just speculating as Mythic has said the main focus is Realm vs. Realm. I'm assuming it will be somewhat like Dark Age of Camelot which was much better than the pve grind in WoW. PvP was the main focus in that game as well.
Comments
I'm going to be playing a DoK...and I'm not speccing in healing
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS! They will all hate me!
lol, enjoy your gimped fighter with limited healing powers!
how do you its gimped, have you played one? you haven't even played the game yet and you are already telling people how they should play. im also rolling a DOK and dont intend of speccing healing....DOK will probably have tanking abilities to make up for the lack of dark elf tank.
Similarity Chain:
WoW Paladin ---> Warrior Priest ---> Disciple of Khaine
The OP has the WoW mindset. He laughs at Retribution Paladins, since they are gimped in WoW. However, this translates in no way, shape, or form to the DPS Warrior Priests/Disciples of Khaine. Yeah, they'll probably have some tanking capability, but I see that becoming more likely for the WP since they're bald and wearing heavy chest armor.
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
I'm going to be playing a DoK...and I'm not speccing in healing
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS! They will all hate me!
lol, enjoy your gimped fighter with limited healing powers!
how do you its gimped, have you played one? you haven't even played the game yet and you are already telling people how they should play. im also rolling a DOK and dont intend of speccing healing....DOK will probably have tanking abilities to make up for the lack of dark elf tank.
OK lets not cross the line here, there is no way in hell that it will gaine tanking abilities, NO OTHER CLASS ITS GONNA PICK UP TANKING FOR ITS RACE, ITS JUST A VOID TILL IT GETS IN!
josh said, that abilities that were interesting from the cut classes are still in the game..they added them to the already existing classes. Dok will be able to tank, just like paladin can tank in wow. dok is the mirror for the warrior priest, and the warrior priest can tank. Those classes that were cut will not make it back into the game, and you can quote me on that if you like.
Thats what I am talking about. The king fight is like Onyxia. You get 24 people, zone in and fight the guy. I just wish they had more than just the one king. The other bosses are PQ's in the city which is different.
I don't WoW style raiding. I want boss fights and lots of them. If my big guild has to RvR to open them up like the King right now, all the better!
I'm going to be playing a DoK...and I'm not speccing in healing
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS! They will all hate me!
lol, enjoy your gimped fighter with limited healing powers!
how do you its gimped, have you played one? you haven't even played the game yet and you are already telling people how they should play. im also rolling a DOK and dont intend of speccing healing....DOK will probably have tanking abilities to make up for the lack of dark elf tank.
Let me clarify. By gimped fighter - I mean it will not have as much dps as a normal fighter. (Which it won't) By limited healing powers, I mean it will not be specced for healing. I'm not telling him how he should play. If that's his playstyle, then awesome. That's what the spec is there for.
Public quests are raids that are not instanced and anyone can join or leave at any time.
Thats a good question.
Its almost like WAR is keeping PVE endgame close to the vest because they really dont have much of it.
a few non-instanced dungeons and instanced boss encounters are all i read about so far.
If the ENdgame isnt atleast equal to games like Lotro i probably wont last long after we sack a city a couple times.
Basically means i give a shelf life of 6 to 8 months then i'll be searching for a new MMO.
That would be a shame.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Thats a good question.
Its almost like WAR is keeping PVE endgame close to the vest because they really dont have much of it.
a few non-instanced dungeons and instanced boss encounters are all i read about so far.
If the ENdgame isnt atleast equal to games like Lotro i probably wont last long after we sack a city a couple times.
Basically means i give a shelf life of 6 to 8 months then i'll be searching for a new MMO.
That would be a shame.
In 6 to 8months they should have the other 4 cities put in. Thats 2 more cities to raid, with 2 more king encounters, 4 more large raid PQ bosses, and the 4-6 more small scale dungeons to play in per realm.
Thats a good question.
Its almost like WAR is keeping PVE endgame close to the vest because they really dont have much of it.
a few non-instanced dungeons and instanced boss encounters are all i read about so far.
If the ENdgame isnt atleast equal to games like Lotro i probably wont last long after we sack a city a couple times.
Basically means i give a shelf life of 6 to 8 months then i'll be searching for a new MMO.
That would be a shame.
How often do you think a city will get sacked? You wont see a city sacking for at least 2 months and then after that it will be like once in a blue moon. Sacking a city take`s immense effort from everyone in your realm,from the lowest level to the top they will help make it possible.
Keeps and scenario will be your realms bread and butter , if you played DAOC you will no that keeps changed hand a lot . Don`t forget their are instances in your city which anyone can do plus you have instances out in the world like Mt.Gunbad dungeon.
Mt.Gunbad dungeon
Its a group dungeon levels 22-30 . There is a vid of the game show in Baltimore where a devs speaks about it for 5 mins..off record. Its an open world instanced dungeon where one faction goes in one end and the other goes in the opposite end.
West Wing is level 22-23
East Wing is level 24-25
South Wing is for levels 26-29.
Complete all the wings to take on the final boss..Squig Boss Ard Ta Feed..
This is just one of many dungeons plus you have instances . All these are built for 6 man groups nothing outside of the city is more than a 6 man dungeon/instanced.
Here's the thing - if the classes are fun and have good synergy - PVE is going to be awesome no matter what. If the king even has a hint of being dynamic, it's going to be a great raid encounter, and people are going to love the PVE aspect.
If the king encounter is fun, it's going to suck if they don't offer more raid content.
PQ'S are certainly a form of raidng but they are not set up to be difficult progression type raids. While Warhammer seems to offer a lot and there are a ton of things to be excited about the one major feature it is missing is progression raiding.
Whether you like WoW or hate it they did one thing very well, offering content for all playstyles including raiders. Warhammer seems to be miles ahead in terms of PVP but there seems to be a dead end in terms of PvE content without progression raiding.
I am not predicting Warhammer will fail. Rather just the oppossite. I believe it will be a huge success. But with progression raiding it could be so much better. My fear is the endgame essentially only offers PvP content and that peopl will become bored wanting more ways to progress in PvE. PVE progression is big reason for keeping people subscribing and the lack of one of the biggest reasons people leave games. I would love to see Warhammer offer endgame for both PvP and PvE Raiders.
Sadly one has to like a game for what it is not what it is not. In this respect there is a lot to like about Warhammer.
PQ'S are certainly a form of raidng but they are not set up to be difficult progression type raids. While Warhammer seems to offer a lot and there are a ton of things to be excited about the one major feature it is missing is progression raiding. and thank god for that because progression raiding in most games is the only viable form of progression and thus everyone gets forced to do it or gets called a gimp by the elites. This is an RvR / PvP game adding in progression raiding takes away from the Realm vs Realm mechanics and makes it Guild vs Realm vs Realm vs Guild which is Not what WAR is about. Raiders will just have to stick with WoW or find another way to feel elite.
Whether you like WoW or hate it they did one thing very well, offering content for all playstyles including raiders. Warhammer seems to be miles ahead in terms of PVP but there seems to be a dead end in terms of PvE content without progression raiding. Maybe to you they did things right and included everyone but this is NOT the case, the moment raids started coming out in WoW during its first year to two years I became heavily disgruntled because now there were entire chunks of content I'd never get to enjoy and it disheartened me (I dont ahve the time or patience to kiss some guild leaders ass to get go on a raid). THey basically said "here's end game its Raids Love it or Leave it" and they've kept that mentality only now theyve 'dumb down' or force raiding on players by lowering the requirements for players meaning if you want to progress in PVE you have to do Dungeons, Grinding or Nothing.
Basically if your into expanding your character's diversity through anything other than Gear your fucked. PvP even more so it got the worse end of the stick being all gear and restricted to crappy BGs & Arena.
I am not predicting Warhammer will fail. Rather just the oppossite. I believe it will be a huge success. But with progression raiding it could be so much better. My fear is the endgame essentially only offers PvP content and that peopl will become bored wanting more ways to progress in PvE. PVE progression is big reason for keeping people subscribing and the lack of one of the biggest reasons people leave games. I would love to see Warhammer offer endgame for both PvP and PvE Raiders.
Sadly one has to like a game for what it is not what it is not. In this respect there is a lot to like about Warhammer.
Progression Raiding suites 1 type of player the greedy Elitist player or Guilds looking to be the Uber Leet and screw everyone else types. You never see these raiders do anything to help their faction or their realm its strickly all about the kill and the gear and definitly all about themselves. There's already tons of games that have the tier'd raiding down why does yet another game need it? It doesn't I'm tired of games where their end game becomes PvE raid centric and I'm for one glad Mythic has stayed away from such an elitist activity and went with a more open method through public dungeons & boss encounters.
For once a game is getting it right in allowing everyone a fair shot to enjoy ALL the content in the game instead of creating content that Only certain types of people get to enjoy.
There's Dungeons, PQ's (City Seige ones included), & the King Encounter for the PvE set. Keeps, City Sieging, & Scenarios for the PvP set and thsoe of us inbetween get to enjoy all of it because all roads are open since you dont have to be part of any sort of exclusive group or have special requirements to go anywhere. If they added Raid Progression all roads would not be open. Players would have to be in raid guilds and do raid things to earn spots in the next run or earn access too the areas. It would also take players away from RvR which is exactly what happened in DAoC with Trials of Atlantis. They've learned their lesson on what works in games that are RvR centric and what doesn't.
Amen to what banthis said.
I find the typical WoW raiding guild sickening. Interviews, schedules, class limitations ... I was filling out a AoC guild app and one of the question was what previous raids had I accomplished. Man, that's just sick and wrong.
This is not a job, it's a game.
Really well put Banthis. The only problem is this: The overwhelming majority of MMO players enjoy endgame PVE content. That's why WoW does so well. That's why the keep the numbers they do.
Don't get me wrong, I am going to go out there and tear the heads off of everyone that I see in pvp when Warhammer comes out - so is everyone else; and we're going to frickin' love it!
But battling the same 20 classes over and over is only going to keep me happy for so long. Soon I'm going to want some strategic boss fights to give me a break after my dose of pvp.
and some people get bored fighting the same 10 bosses over and over, and want some strategic PvP to give them a break from the PvE.
The benefit of PvP is it is player driven, not scripted. So 20 classes + hundreds of players will stay fresh longer than 10-20 static boss encounters. fighting a goblin shammy 100 times over can get kind of old, but add that goblin shammy to 10 other random players and its going to stay fresh far longer than any boss encounter someone could code.
so while yes, PvP is fun, and bosses are great. PvP is where the staying power is, because its not the same every time you try it, it changes depending on who you are fighting.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
The RvR in this game takes A LOT of strategy. You think a group of mindless idiots can run up to The Inevitable City and take out the boss? No. It's going to take a lot of planning and a lot of guild cooperation. Same thing with the mega fortresses. You aren't just going to say "O...I think I'll go get my bud and we'll take them out". It's going to require guild cooperation and thought. And the bosses for the PQs aren't going to be a piece of cake from some videos I've watched and from what I've heard in different articles. The strategy will definitely be there.
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Sounds to me like you should play both games. I don't think one game should have to please everyone. We can all play more than one game. I love Rock Band but I don't ask WAR to add a drum controller.
There should be more than pvp and there will be. Would it be so bad for a game to have content where you didn't have to be in the right guild just to see?
PQ'S are certainly a form of raidng but they are not set up to be difficult or progression type raids. While Warhammer seems to offer a lot and there are a ton of things to be excited about the one major feature it is missing is progression raiding.
Whether you like WoW or hate it they did one thing very well, offering content for all playstyles including raiders. Warhammer seems to be miles ahead in terms of PVP but there seems to be a dead end in terms of PvE content without progression raiding.
I am not predicting Warhammer will fail. Rather just the oppossite. I believe it will be a huge success. But with progression raiding it could be so much better. My fear is the endgame essentially only offers PvP content and that peopl will become bored wanting more ways to progress in PvE. PVE progression is big reason for keeping people subscribing and the lack of one of the biggest reasons people leave games. I would love to see Warhammer offer endgame for both PvP and PvE Raiders.
Sadly one has to like a game for what it is not what it is not. In this respect there is a lot to like about Warhammer.
and thank god for that because progression raiding in most games is the only viable form of progression and thus everyone gets forced to do it or gets called a gimp by the elites. This is an RvR / PvP game adding in progression raiding takes away from the Realm vs Realm mechanics and makes it Guild vs Realm vs Realm vs Guild which is Not what WAR is about. Raiders will just have to stick with WoW or find another way to feel elite.
Maybe to you they did things right and included everyone but this is NOT the case, the moment raids started coming out in WoW during its first year to two years I became heavily disgruntled because now there were entire chunks of content I'd never get to enjoy and it disheartened me (I dont ahve the time or patience to kiss some guild leaders ass to get go on a raid). THey basically said "here's end game its Raids Love it or Leave it" and they've kept that mentality only now theyve 'dumb down' or force raiding on players by lowering the requirements for players meaning if you want to progress in PVE you have to do Dungeons, Grinding or Nothing.
Basically if your into expanding your character's diversity through anything other than Gear your fucked. PvP even more so it got the worse end of the stick being all gear and restricted to crappy BGs & Arena.
Progression Raiding suites 1 type of player the greedy Elitist player or Guilds looking to be the Uber Leet and screw everyone else types. You never see these raiders do anything to help their faction or their realm its strickly all about the kill and the gear and definitly all about themselves. There's already tons of games that have the tier'd raiding down why does yet another game need it? It doesn't I'm tired of games where their end game becomes PvE raid centric and I'm for one glad Mythic has stayed away from such an elitist activity and went with a more open method through public dungeons & boss encounters.
For once a game is getting it right in allowing everyone a fair shot to enjoy ALL the content in the game instead of creating content that Only certain types of people get to enjoy.
There's Dungeons, PQ's (City Seige ones included), & the King Encounter for the PvE set. Keeps, City Sieging, & Scenarios for the PvP set and thsoe of us inbetween get to enjoy all of it because all roads are open since you dont have to be part of any sort of exclusive group or have special requirements to go anywhere. If they added Raid Progression all roads would not be open. Players would have to be in raid guilds and do raid things to earn spots in the next run or earn access too the areas. It would also take players away from RvR which is exactly what happened in DAoC with Trials of Atlantis. They've learned their lesson on what works in games that are RvR centric and what doesn't.
Saying that progression raidiing is only for greedy elitest players is a huge generalization as is most of your post. One could just as easily generalize and say PVPers are generraly rude whiny kiddies without the attention span to follow directions and pay attention in raids to be successful. But that is not fair just as your attacks on people that do not endorse your playstyle are not fair.
To say that top end raiders are greedy is simply not true. For a guild to be a successful top end raiding guild its members need to put away their individual goals and focus only on guild goals. Greedy players do not work well in progession guilds.
Saying that the best guilds will not help out in RvR unless they are forced to is just as big a generalization. There are reasons for people tp RvR and to help. I have been part of many PvE raiding and PVP guilds that have had some of the nicest people one would meet on a server. People that love to help other people. Daoc had one of the biggest carrots to PvP in any MMO with RP points Warhammer does the same. All players will need to help their realm in Warhammer to fully develop thier own characters.
But you do bring up one good point that I will agree with you and thats forced raiding. No one play style should be forced over another. IMO there should be multiple ways to get the best gear. The problem often is always risk vs reward with high end raiding be the most difficult content in MMOs. But in a game like Warhammer with a limited amount of inventory slots compared to most MMO's and less of a focus on gear better gear should make less of a difference especially compared to the gains from receiving RVR ranks. In warhammer RvR gives players better skills and new abilities. Something raiders would have to do if they want to progress in PvE content.
The way Warhammer is set up with its focus on RvR even if it did progression raiding it would not effect PvP players that much or even force them to raid. If the difference in gear was to huge it can easily be rectified by providing similar gear from PvP. But then again that brings out the question as to why should a guild engage in the difficult task of raiding when it would be much easier and simpler to just PvP. But there are ways to make both playstyles meaningfull and happy such as make the PvP gear rewards focused on PVP stats or limited mainly to PVP and the reverse for Raiding gear.
It is sad. For PvPers there has arguably not been a good game since DAOC. Many people simply hated L2 for its bland boring content and world, Dark and Light may have been the worst game ever released, and almost of the 30 or so people (myself included) I know who tried AoC none lasted longer than 2-6 weeks before cancelling. For many raiders likewise there is nothing out there. EQ1 to old, EQ2 just a bland boring game, WoW well I will not go there and Vanguard is not being funded by SOE and is generating virtually no new content. I think we all want to see a good quality game made and that will offer content for all players. A game like Warhammer has that potential. If its a hit and a success they will have the money and the number of developers to develop content for us players on a lerge scale.
There is no reason the endgame has to be just PVP and nothing really for PvE. Yes there are some dungeons, some single group content but it is very limited and people will quickly reach a dead end on PvE without some more challenging content such as raiding. While I am excited quite a bit by warhammer again I think they are greatly limiting themselves by narrowly focusing their endgame to one playstyle.
But again this is not a doom and gloom post. Rather I was just pointing out the big features missing from Warhammer is progression raiding and endgame PvE content. This IMHO limits Warhammer's potential targetbase and limits the activities available at endgame lowering the possible retention rate. As I said before one has to like a game for what it is, not what it is not. In this respect there is a lot to like about Warhammer and even without raiding Warhammer will be a successful and great game. I have been lucky enough to be a beta player but even without any beta information I am confident Warhammer will be a huge hit come release this November/ December.
I never said ther eshouldn't be end game PvE content infact I listed several END game content. Dungeons & the King are High to End game content in WAR.
My issue is with the RAID mentality. Raiding is an exclusive end game path for only raiders. Yes non raiders and casuals get into it but only because they had too because there was nothing else. WAR's mentality that NO activity should be 'exclusive' is to me the perfect mentality. Everyone pays the same, everyone dedicates time to a game even if its in shorter or longer bursts for some so everyone shoudl have access to the same Progression path at end game. Raiding is limited and only about Gear. RvR encompasses everything Pve & PvP and in order to keep 'everyone' working together without having to 'focus' on working together they've implimented End Game Open Dungeons that have Instanced bosses and the King Encounter (which anyone can go to without having to "progress' to be 'flagged' to go).
Any content that requires you to 'progress' in a manner to be 'flagged' and limits players to only playing with their 'guild' or a 'guild' is destructive to RvR mentality.
If you don't understand RvR then perhaps you never will and perhaps you'll be among the few that will not like WAR and thats fine..but alot of us are tired of content and activities that are exclusive to a particular player base...RvR is about everyone in your faction and as such Everyone has a shot to participate in all the available content and thats the way it should be in an RvR Game not a PvP game or PvE game but an RvR game.
Why wasn't -this- suggested in the alpha stages?
My ex-girlfriend felt this way when we played WoW way back when. She'd never fill out an application for a guild because she thought they were all nerds who took a GAME way too seriously. They treat it more like a job, but sadly, the very nature of endgame PvE (at least in WoW) almost forces them to. Because of the design of the content, they have set roles that need to be filled and that means people will be rejected. They want to have people with the most experience because otherwise, because of the design, it becomes quite difficult and frustrating to the raiding veterans.
What Mythic doing is taking that away. Of course, experience is still useful, but it won't be such a harsh requirement as in WoW. Maybe people will remember that to learn something best, you have to do it.
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
And here in lies the problem..Guilds work for Guilds in games that have PvE Raids. This is NOT a guild Game..this s not a Guild vs Guild for the champion spot game. This an RvR game..yes guilds are important and guilds get some damn awsome features but the game is an RvR game...giving Guilds a reason to dislike each other on the Same TEAM is a bad idea and thats what Raids do. Instead of guilds focusing on the war effort they'llb e focusing on the Raid Content so they can 'one up' other guilds on the Teir.
You may feel im generalizing but I'm not. Raiders bitch wined and cried the moment casual started getting access to dungeons they once held dear to them. What does that tell you? Raiders have to have content that only THEY can enjoy what does that tell you?
I enjoy both PvE & PvP and I've always despised when a game created content that only RAIDERS would like. You may feel WAR is missing out but if you understood anything about RvR then you'd know it wasn't. You may not need 24 people but there's still plenty for PvE end game.
I hate PvE raiding progression because it sections off portions of the game from others and you can't say different because even in WoW its true. Look at the old raid zones even today the only people that go there are guilds that NEED to go there for X person's quest. Anyone in a small start up guild or a new player never gets to see those zones. Its a complete waste of development time and it would be even MORE so in an RvR game where the focus is an actual WAR going on.
i doubt seriously there will be much in the ways of massive pve stuff like WoW has. Warhammer is mostly a Realm vs. Realm game, it's main focus is PvP Realm vs. Realm. I'm sure they'll have some encounters to kill dragons or other very dangerous creatures of the sort that need alot of people to conquer. If you like PvE there will be pve for you but just remember this games focus is more for Pvp Realm vs. Realm and it doesn't cater to PvE as much as PvP.
I for one am soooo happy to see mythic focus on Realm vs. Realm as the primary focus...If I wanted a PvE game I'd play World of Warcraft. I hated WoW, I hated the massive grinding for loot in huge raids for a few scraps of armors taking forever to get equipped only to have it replaceable by the time I finally got equipped.
I always missed that feeling of realm pride we had in Dark Age of Camelot in the old days.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
Maybe you should actually play the game before makign this statement. I have..there's plenty of PvE. Its a ful RvR game meaning PvE & PvP are important they're just not creating any content that sections off the player base in an unfair way.
Okay, you know what? If they can make RvR have the staying power that a PVE progression focused game has, then I'm totally hooked.
I'm just having a hard time trying to figure out how the concept of straight RvR is going to hold players' attention through the first two years that this game is out.
True I haven't gotten to play the game. I'm just speculating as Mythic has said the main focus is Realm vs. Realm. I'm assuming it will be somewhat like Dark Age of Camelot which was much better than the pve grind in WoW. PvP was the main focus in that game as well.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot