for what i care, if a game have quests, the quests dosn't need to have any text in it, because i don't read it anyways. and i don't know anyone who read quests eather.
The only thing me and my friends care about is to level up, so we can have fun and pvp.
PvE grinding is boring. PvP grinding is fun tho because other players have intelligence (or lack of) unlike predictable mobs. Like another poster said I had fun in RvR, even the BGs and arena in WoW were fun until they got overplayed. 4 BGs + arena in WoW as endgame PvP got old fast.
I think there is a different grinding threshold for every player. For me, when grinding is used to replace content like in WoW where they make you do the same heroic dungeon 209483209482 times for badges, that's when it gets boring. Or they make you play the same 4 BGs a bajillion times without any extra additional lore/plot/point other than gear grind.
Some MMO devs can't keep up with making new content so they just create bigger and bigger grinds like using badges and rep. If they just take 20% of their revenue and use it to continually churn out new content it would be able to balance the grind vs content.
In PvP, people are able to grind a lot more because they are fighting other players, but once you get to a point where it's overplayed like in the only 4 BGs, and when you take away world PvP in lieau of instanced PvP (concurrency is fine but substitution is not), its get tired fast.
A successful game will always have progression. For MMOs to innovate and make this progression other than gear-centric will be cornerstone of a better form of MMO.
Players will grind to an extent but when they start realising it's pointless, they start feeling like a mouse on a wheel. You're never getting anywhere because the next xpac will reset everything anyways. After a while the only mice left on the threadmill will be the ones who really really like running in circles...........
Grinding is not fun... ever. That's the definition of a "grind in an MMO". When something becomes a grind, you keep doing it for the sake of progression, not for entertainment. If you are having fun, it's not a grind. Even if you have to kill 5000 of some mob, it's not a grind if it's fun. Everyone on here is defining grind differently, making it rather difficult to discuss an abstract concept.
I agree with OP,mmo without grind and you might as well play barbie online or what ever, imo it is the grinding that makes mmo's fun.Showing up the items you found in yesterdays grinding for your friends:-)
a grind can be fun? Only way a grind can be fun, IMO, is if the game hides in in a miraculous way. Some games, like most f2p games, have quests that are just Kill X ammount of This type quests. That is a horrible, blatant way of showing the grind. other games, like most main stream MMOs, actually do a good job of managing their grind, IE varried quests and other ways of getting items to show off, like PVP and dungeons.
To me as long as the action is fun I don't consider it a grind. The moment something becomes repeatively boring its a grind to me.
Its why I can't stand games that have X million quests and half the quests are the same thing and there's no difference between them.
Best example
Quest A) Has you go search around some boulders near the edge of the forest for a body. You find it nothing happens of importance.
Quest has you go search around the forest for some chests. You find them all but as you retrieve the last one you're ambushed by a named mob (one that only appears for that quest).
A mixture of Quest A & B to me is not a grind IMHO. Lots of Quest B to me is also not a grind. But lots of Quest A is a complete grind and utterly boring. Most games tend to have alot of Quest A...
When things become boring thats when the word 'grind' comes into play, its techincally subjective but a good content creation team should be able to gloss the grind into something fun. This is why I consider WoW a major grind game. Not only the quests are annoyingly the same but the mob killing grind sucks as well; atleast EQ1's mob grind was entertaining with all the Crazy Trains of death and squabbling with other guilds over hunting grounds or just for fun was awsome too.
I'm hoping WAR's 'grind' is a whole lot less and far more entertaining due to the PvP factor & the community factor.
Honestly, some people are complaining about grinding in WAR. WoW even has complainers. Games these days are too easy. These people need to play EQ or something.... even FFXI was pretty serious.
QQ
Well for those of us that are NOT young and dont live off mommy and daddys wallet we actually have real jobs and we do not want to feel like we have to work while playing or trying to enjoy a game even more so for the crappy MMO's developed like WAR will be to AoC is currently, basically clone garbage with a monthly fee!
You forgot the collector quests where you're asked to get *insert here* parts form *insert here* creature but only one in ten of the creatures will drop the part, the frutsrating bit, you need 30 parts.
Thank god WAR doesn't put you through that hell. I'll elaborate when I can but...its pretty much like they said in past videos.
You see, this is where Asheron's Call did it right.
Yes, if you wanted to raise your epeen (level) then you had to grind. However level wasn't nearly as important. Obviously a 20 was significantly different than a 1, but after you got so far the difference became less and less noticeable.
There was no endcap/endgame to asheron's call. Monthly i repeat MONTHLY added content across almost all levels ensured fresh things to be done. Leveling was not the focus of the game; exploration and accomplishment were more of a focus.
I haven't found a community in an MMO that was there just to have fun as much as the AC community was. I guess to go along with that... all of the other communities have been junk too.
Comments
Grinding isn't a problem, it's relaxing imo.
for what i care, if a game have quests, the quests dosn't need to have any text in it, because i don't read it anyways. and i don't know anyone who read quests eather.
The only thing me and my friends care about is to level up, so we can have fun and pvp.
Want to play: Lego Universe
PvE grinding is boring. PvP grinding is fun tho because other players have intelligence (or lack of) unlike predictable mobs. Like another poster said I had fun in RvR, even the BGs and arena in WoW were fun until they got overplayed. 4 BGs + arena in WoW as endgame PvP got old fast.
I think there is a different grinding threshold for every player. For me, when grinding is used to replace content like in WoW where they make you do the same heroic dungeon 209483209482 times for badges, that's when it gets boring. Or they make you play the same 4 BGs a bajillion times without any extra additional lore/plot/point other than gear grind.
Some MMO devs can't keep up with making new content so they just create bigger and bigger grinds like using badges and rep. If they just take 20% of their revenue and use it to continually churn out new content it would be able to balance the grind vs content.
In PvP, people are able to grind a lot more because they are fighting other players, but once you get to a point where it's overplayed like in the only 4 BGs, and when you take away world PvP in lieau of instanced PvP (concurrency is fine but substitution is not), its get tired fast.
A successful game will always have progression. For MMOs to innovate and make this progression other than gear-centric will be cornerstone of a better form of MMO.
Players will grind to an extent but when they start realising it's pointless, they start feeling like a mouse on a wheel. You're never getting anywhere because the next xpac will reset everything anyways. After a while the only mice left on the threadmill will be the ones who really really like running in circles...........
Grinding is not fun... ever. That's the definition of a "grind in an MMO". When something becomes a grind, you keep doing it for the sake of progression, not for entertainment. If you are having fun, it's not a grind. Even if you have to kill 5000 of some mob, it's not a grind if it's fun. Everyone on here is defining grind differently, making it rather difficult to discuss an abstract concept.
The word grinding for me, in this context is getting experiance by killing mobs.
i guess those who complain about grinding are maby catassing.
so if war is like wow grinding, than its good news for me atleast.
because i want games to be my hobby, and not my life
Want to play: Lego Universe
a grind can be fun? Only way a grind can be fun, IMO, is if the game hides in in a miraculous way. Some games, like most f2p games, have quests that are just Kill X ammount of This type quests. That is a horrible, blatant way of showing the grind. other games, like most main stream MMOs, actually do a good job of managing their grind, IE varried quests and other ways of getting items to show off, like PVP and dungeons.
To me as long as the action is fun I don't consider it a grind. The moment something becomes repeatively boring its a grind to me.
Its why I can't stand games that have X million quests and half the quests are the same thing and there's no difference between them.
Best example
Quest A) Has you go search around some boulders near the edge of the forest for a body. You find it nothing happens of importance.
Quest
has you go search around the forest for some chests. You find them all but as you retrieve the last one you're ambushed by a named mob (one that only appears for that quest).
A mixture of Quest A & B to me is not a grind IMHO. Lots of Quest B to me is also not a grind. But lots of Quest A is a complete grind and utterly boring. Most games tend to have alot of Quest A...
When things become boring thats when the word 'grind' comes into play, its techincally subjective but a good content creation team should be able to gloss the grind into something fun. This is why I consider WoW a major grind game. Not only the quests are annoyingly the same but the mob killing grind sucks as well; atleast EQ1's mob grind was entertaining with all the Crazy Trains of death and squabbling with other guilds over hunting grounds or just for fun was awsome too.
I'm hoping WAR's 'grind' is a whole lot less and far more entertaining due to the PvP factor & the community factor.
Well for those of us that are NOT young and dont live off mommy and daddys wallet we actually have real jobs and we do not want to feel like we have to work while playing or trying to enjoy a game even more so for the crappy MMO's developed like WAR will be to AoC is currently, basically clone garbage with a monthly fee!
Thank god WAR doesn't put you through that hell. I'll elaborate when I can but...its pretty much like they said in past videos.
You see, this is where Asheron's Call did it right.
Yes, if you wanted to raise your epeen (level) then you had to grind. However level wasn't nearly as important. Obviously a 20 was significantly different than a 1, but after you got so far the difference became less and less noticeable.
There was no endcap/endgame to asheron's call. Monthly i repeat MONTHLY added content across almost all levels ensured fresh things to be done. Leveling was not the focus of the game; exploration and accomplishment were more of a focus.
I haven't found a community in an MMO that was there just to have fun as much as the AC community was. I guess to go along with that... all of the other communities have been junk too.